Author Topic: Is the Coronavirus threat being overegged?  (Read 52025 times)

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Offline barrier

Re: Is the Coronavirus threat being overegged?
« Reply #45 on: March 14, 2020, 04:14:20 PM »

Having visited Italy many times I have observed that Italians have an infinitely healthier diet than many in the UK.
The north of Italy where the virus seems to have become more prevalent, is more wealthy then the South.

Italy has the second largest elderly population in the world, which may explain the high death rate but is also indicative of a healthy lifestyle.

Not that healthy it seems.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline barrier

Re: Is the Coronavirus threat being overegged?
« Reply #46 on: March 14, 2020, 04:16:16 PM »
Can the UK really cope if hundreds of thousands become infected as predicted?

Its doubled to 20 deaths now.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline Erngath

Re: Is the Coronavirus threat being overegged?
« Reply #47 on: March 14, 2020, 04:39:28 PM »
Not that healthy it seems.

Italy is ranked fifth in the world for life expectancy.
The UK is twenty fifth.
Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Is the Coronavirus threat being overegged?
« Reply #48 on: March 14, 2020, 06:50:02 PM »
Doesn't bear thinking about.

Most of us will be left to ride it out "in the comfort of our own homes."  Some will die there, either alone, or in front of frantic relatives/caregivers, having been unable to contact anyone for medical attention.

Well, perhaps that's a very pessimistic scenario, but I do have a vivid imagination.
Without treatment, death seems to come pretty quickly.  There were bodies lying in the streets of Wuhan.  Basically they looked as if they died walking to the doctors.   I've heard the sticky mucus in the lungs is the problem.  I'd think having an asthma inhaler on hand and some expectorant cough mixture is essential for the immediate first aid.
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Offline mrswah

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Re: Is the Coronavirus threat being overegged?
« Reply #49 on: March 14, 2020, 07:10:56 PM »
Without treatment, death seems to come pretty quickly.  There were bodies lying in the streets of Wuhan.  Basically they looked as if they died walking to the doctors.   I've heard the sticky mucus in the lungs is the problem.  I'd think having an asthma inhaler on hand and some expectorant cough mixture is essential for the immediate first aid.

We have been talking to my husband's nephew, who is a GP in London. His practice is now not seeing any patients, but doing everything online via conference calling. Those who are very ill have to go straight to A and E. Our nephew and his colleagues have, apparently, been working flat out with the IT specialists this week, to get the software systems working properly---should have all been done ages ago, he said. 

Doesn't sound at all good.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Is the Coronavirus threat being overegged?
« Reply #50 on: March 14, 2020, 07:51:54 PM »
“Giuseppe Natalini, head of intensive care at the Fondazione Poliambulanza hospital in the northern Italian city of Brescia, one of the places hit hardest by the coronavirus, does not mince his words.

“The situation is catastrophic, unimaginable,” he said. “If someone had told me on February 21 [when the first cluster of cases was diagnosed in Italy] that today we would be in this situation, I would not have believed it.

“Two or three weeks ago I would have considered the strict measures that have been in place in Italy disproportionate and alarmist. Now, absolutely not.”
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline barrier

Re: Is the Coronavirus threat being overegged?
« Reply #51 on: March 14, 2020, 08:00:17 PM »
Without treatment, death seems to come pretty quickly.  There were bodies lying in the streets of Wuhan.  Basically they looked as if they died walking to the doctors.   I've heard the sticky mucus in the lungs is the problem. I'd think having an asthma inhaler on hand and some expectorant cough mixture is essential for the immediate first aid.

Only if you're an asthmatic.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Is the Coronavirus threat being overegged?
« Reply #52 on: March 14, 2020, 10:41:08 PM »
Only if you're an asthmatic.
I don't know about that.   OK don't use steroidal ones but the ones like "Ventolin" do work.  1 in 5 New Zealanders suffer from asthma type conditions so there are inhalers all over the place.  We are talking about a life or death emergency here so I wouldn't hesitate in using an inhaler, even without a prescription, if I felt my bronchi getting blocked with mucus.  It is your choice.

https://www.verywellhealth.com/pneumonia-treatments-770681
"Breathing Treatments: Your doctor may also prescribe an inhaler or a nebulizer treatment to help loosen the mucus in your lungs and help you breathe better.
 The most common medication for this is Ventolin, ProAir, or Proventil (albuterol)."
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 10:45:55 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is the Coronavirus threat being overegged?
« Reply #53 on: March 14, 2020, 10:49:57 PM »
Boris..backed by science has got it bang on. We can't and shouldn't stop the spread of the virus but it's the elderly who need to self isolate.
It's wrong to close bars and restaurants... destroy young people's jobs

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Is the Coronavirus threat being overegged?
« Reply #54 on: March 14, 2020, 10:53:20 PM »
In NZ all visitors from overseas have to go into self-isolation for 14 days.   We have had only 6 confirmed cases and most of those have now recovered (I think, I must check).  10,000 plus people in self-isolation ATM.  No panic on the street ATM but businesses are suffering as our biggest earner is tourism.   Well, it still must be one of the safer places to visit.   
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Is the Coronavirus threat being overegged?
« Reply #55 on: March 14, 2020, 10:55:21 PM »
Boris..backed by science has got it bang on. We can't and shouldn't stop the spread of the virus but it's the elderly who need to self isolate.
It's wrong to close bars and restaurants... destroy young people's jobs
That is a rugged approach.   One that we are not adopting in NZ.

Are you not concerned about your own wellbeing?
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Offline barrier

Re: Is the Coronavirus threat being overegged?
« Reply #56 on: March 15, 2020, 06:14:45 AM »
That is a rugged approach.   One that we are not adopting in NZ.

Are you not concerned about your own wellbeing?
How long is the self isolation supposed to last,this virus is an unknown entity,will it come again just when you think it's safe?.Personally I'm asthmatic so at risk,who isn't to be honest,but I'll go about my normal business,I really mix in large groups,I like to think I'm hygienic,so it's carry on regardless.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Is the Coronavirus threat being overegged?
« Reply #57 on: March 15, 2020, 09:21:52 AM »
Dr Tim Pearce seems to know what he’s on about:

7 THINGS WE MUST STOP SAYING ABOUT THE CORONA VIRUS

1. “This virus is being blown totally out of proportion. More people suffer and die from the flu and accidents and other medical issues nobody talks about.”

There are two dangerous flaws in this view.

As of today, there are 600 proven cases in the UK.   The real number is likely to be >6000 cases due to a lack of testing. What’s worse is the rate that the number is likely to increase EXTREMELY fast- in fact, it will probably double or more every week.

If it keeps spreading at the same rate, it will reach ~100 000 cases in 4 weeks, and 1.5 million in 8 weeks!   You cannot compare it to stable problems. This problem is exploding in scale at an exponential rate, not staying the same.

- The second big problem with this is that it is actually irrelevant what else kills people because this problem is just being ADDED to those other problems.   Our risk is COMPOUNDED with other risks, not EQUAL to how things were before the outbreak.

Worse still, all the old issues still have to be dealt with by a healthcare system in collapse, and many people without the virus will die due to the collapsing system. 

2. “It’s not that different to flu”

Wrong! This situation is so very different from flu for the following reasons…

-It’s a new virus, so 100% of us can catch it.
-there’s no vaccine and no chance of getting one soon.
-there’s no treatment proven to work.
- It’s spread WAY easier than most flu cases, each person passing it on to 2-3 other people instead of 1.2 due to the structure of the virus and how resilient it is.
- It kills 10 x the percentage of people of the average flu outbreak and in some places (Italy) doctors are reporting it is closer to 80x more lethal than average flu. I  suspect these numbers are a distortion, but we do not yet know for sure. 

3. “Only a low percentage of people die compared with SARS which was 10%, and we all got through that well!”

This assertion ignores the impact of the rate of spread- this illness may kill a lower percentage of people infected, but will still kill many times more people.  Why? 

The number of people getting infected is going to be MUCH higher.    1% of 7 billion people is 70 million people (!) who could die as it spreads.  Only 8000 people caught SARS… and 800 died.  We are already WAY passed this number with this outbreak and it is NOT slowing down- it’s speeding up.

4. “It’s not that lethal to the young and healthy, so we shouldn’t worry”.

I’ve seen it said as a reassuring fact that only a 0.2% chance of death in middle-aged and younger people.   This is 1 in every 500 productive people.  IF this disease becomes part of the new normal, we will ALL lose people we know in the prime of their lives.    Once again, the hidden factor is the degree of spread that is possible- if this was easily contained we would not have to worry about 0.2% of a small number, but if everyone is going to get this, this number is extremely worrying.  If it becomes widespread this is enough to make it one of the most common ways for younger people to die.

5.  “Only old people die from it, so no point worrying if you are not old”

Apart from the fact that these are our parents and grandparents who also deserve our concern, 15% of people get seriously ill and this is FAR worse than a cold for many young people.    It is way worse getting the WORST illness you have ever had right about when the system is collapsing as everyone else is ill.   

There is also a concern that it could cause permanent lung scarring in those who survive- this could cause lifelong problems.

6.  “We’re all going to get it anyway, so no point worrying.”

I have even seen doctors says this… This idea fails to appreciate the value of reducing the spike in cases of a rapidly spreading disease.  This spike will cause a collapse of the healthcare system.  In Italy, they are already having to choose between people based on their age who gets to go to ITU and who dies…  resources matter.  Delaying the spread will save lives even if you get it later.
 
7.  “As long as ‘old’ people stay out of large public gatherings it will keep them safe and we can carry on...”

This idea really scares me because it shows a misunderstanding of how to handle the threat- it smells like a political statement designed to reassure without taking any economic risks.   

Our number one enemy is the R0- the RATE of contagion.  It does not matter what age the crowd is- the crowd all go home to families and grandparents and the damage is still done.  Any contagion is a problem as it introduces the virus into new communities which then spread from person to person.

So what should we do?

I believe all efforts need to go on reducing the rate of contagion- it’s really our only real defence. If we could get the R0 to less than 1 we would beat it- this is unlikely, but getting it close to 1 will hugely ease the burden on healthcare and save lives.

We should:
-Keep our distance from each other, no handshakes or hugs.
-Cancel large events
-The government should proactively close schools in communities where ANYONE gets sick in that community.  This is well known to be one of THE most effective ways of reducing community spread.
-Wash hands and surfaces each time they are touched by different people.
-Try not to touch your face.
-Wash your phone- they are filthy.
-Take vitamin D and Zinc to reduce risk and improve defences.
-Avoid crowded places.
-Do not soldier on if you get sick- stay at home even if it’s mild.
-Stop smoking- this is possibly a major factor in the death rate.
-Do not spread reassuring conspiracy theories or attack the media.   There are only two things you need to know.

The percentage of people who get seriously ill (15%) or die (1-3%) and the rate of transmission R0 (currently about 2-3 people catching it from each infected person).

You can ignore the media when you know these numbers are low.

...Until then every individual can make a difference by taking it seriously. 

I think people need to know- please share if you agree.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Is the Coronavirus threat being overegged?
« Reply #58 on: March 15, 2020, 11:06:56 AM »
How long is the self isolation supposed to last,this virus is an unknown entity,will it come again just when you think it's safe?.Personally I'm asthmatic so at risk,who isn't to be honest,but I'll go about my normal business,I really mix in large groups,I like to think I'm hygienic,so it's carry on regardless.
We are a bit lucky in NZ as we have no land borders.   Everyone arriving will go into self-isolation (monitored).  It seems to be working except for a cruise ship in Akaroa with 2 suspected cases on board.

There won't be as many cases as fewer people will be arriving here.  If you turn up your first two weeks will be in quarantine.   At least you will survive, so I imagine we might get tourists coming here to protect themselves in a disease-free country.
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Is the Coronavirus threat being overegged?
« Reply #59 on: March 16, 2020, 01:38:33 AM »
We are a bit lucky in NZ as we have no land borders.   Everyone arriving will go into self-isolation (monitored).  It seems to be working except for a cruise ship in Akaroa with 2 suspected cases on board.

There won't be as many cases as fewer people will be arriving here.  If you turn up your first two weeks will be in quarantine.   At least you will survive, so I imagine we might get tourists coming here to protect themselves in a disease-free country.
People interviewed at the airport today.  They seemed reluctant to comply with the 14-day self-quarantine.   I wonder what happens now.
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