Author Topic: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes  (Read 83318 times)

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Offline faithlilly

Re: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes
« Reply #930 on: January 31, 2023, 02:19:12 PM »
Think it’s 15 in Scotland and need 8 for a conviction. So yeah at least 1 at most 7. Don’t think we can find out what it was. Would be interesting to know though.

England its panel of 12 or 11 jurors, 10 must agree. 10 jurors, 9 must agree.

It would be interesting to know the exact numbers but I believe it’s against the law to talk about what happened in the deliberation room, even when the trial is over.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Mr Apples

Re: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes
« Reply #931 on: January 31, 2023, 02:48:43 PM »
If it was as many as 7 I'm surprised she hasn't mentioned it.

That's exactly what I was thinking, although I don't know if she'd be allowed to publicly divulge that info. Don't see why not, though.

Btw, I definitely read on another forum (probably on the blue jeremy bamber forum) that the verdict was 9/6. The person on the other forum who posted this information indicated that it was what they had heard, so the info should obviously not be taken at face value.

Offline Parky41

Re: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes
« Reply #932 on: January 31, 2023, 03:52:34 PM »
Shall we have the point again? - It is not about washing clean, it is about washing over the point. It is not about the tactics being accepted, the lies and manipulation to illicit whatever response, and in this instance there are several at play to evoke. One being, to add whatever else to the creation of monsters, guns, dynamite, more limbs - The more that is added to the monsters, only serves to show how strong the evidence against Mitchell was, and not its weakness. That these many others investigated were eliminated, but not Mitchell.

Now we deal with investigated, which is very much the point around tactics, the deception and the manipulation. For in that point, there is that it is all tactical, with the only intent to deceive. The liars, the manipulators who do it at will, are the very ones telling you that no other person was investigated, that is the point - Spinning a yarn. That when a murder happens, and as highlighted, many of the public contact the police, some valid and some "crazies" Which and again around the monsters, only serves to show what was investigated and eliminated at the time.

Now we place these many others that have suspect applied to them, by the liars, the manipulators who do this with ease. They are not suspects, they are people who were caught up in some young girl being murdered. Who at the point of all being suspect, were investigated and eliminated. They are now only applied as imaginary suspects, by the people who have spun a yarn, the very people, who with such ease, can and do lie and manipulate at will with their tactics.

You are told there was no evidence, by the people who are spinning a yarn, the very people who you boast are getting response around tactics used, when the yarn in itself is a tactic. From the people who do it across the board, the liars and manipulators who are spinning a yarn.

This case built upon evidence where a substantial amount came from a compulsive liar/s- Who attempted to spin a yarn themselves. In turn to be heard, to have a voice, needs like minded people, kindred spirits, to spin that yarn on repeat. What people do do, when they see a lie, another, then another, is they place one mighty big ? around everything, starting right from those three words "I am innocent"


It is not "Why would I lie to risk a dangerous killer back on our streets?" It poses no risk at all. It is, why do you? A brief example, 2003 and Mitchell spun a yarn to the local mouthpiece (her description, not mines). The 'rushing up a path' - Access gained to defence papers and saw without any doubt those lies, that is not up for debate. So, one changed the narrative more to spin further yarn, to cover the lies on repeat from Mitchell ---------- Having spent years putting out a false narrative, one without doubt sought only to back that, by using whatever to keep that spinning going.

That direction of the Judge around accepting a strong majority saw the Jury return in no time. Because people are spun a yarn they live under an illusion, that had there been insufficient evidence in law to convict equates to Mitchell not having killed Jodi Jones - Not true in the slightest, the truth is a far cry from the yarn spun. He would have become (like thousands more) a statistic of an offender getting off. The factually guilty walking free.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes
« Reply #933 on: January 31, 2023, 05:07:28 PM »
That's exactly what I was thinking, although I don't know if she'd be allowed to publicly divulge that info. Don't see why not, though.

Btw, I definitely read on another forum (probably on the blue jeremy bamber forum) that the verdict was 9/6. The person on the other forum who posted this information indicated that it was what they had heard, so the info should obviously not be taken at face value.

Perhaps because it’s against the law? The jurors are not allowed to discuss deliberations.

Strangely Parky posted that the Nimmo said he would not accept a verdict of less than 13/2 so someone’s telling porkies.


Ah here it is.

“And upon very good authority I will leave you with that direction to the jury, of the acceptance of a strong majority of no less than 13. In circumstantial cases there is always going to be room for doubt upon those who need direct evidence. ”
« Last Edit: January 31, 2023, 05:20:22 PM by faithlilly »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes
« Reply #934 on: January 31, 2023, 05:19:44 PM »
So for all we know there was just one juror who didn’t agree with the rest.  Anything else is speculation and this argument should not therefore  be a consideration when discussing  the strength or otherwise of the jury’s conviction.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Bullseye

Re: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes
« Reply #935 on: January 31, 2023, 05:34:51 PM »
So for all we know there was just one juror who didn’t agree with the rest.  Anything else is speculation and this argument should not therefore  be a consideration when discussing  the strength or otherwise of the jury’s conviction.

Still be interesting to know the split though.
We may never know but for me the point is not all were convinced so can we be blamed for also not being convinced.


Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes
« Reply #936 on: January 31, 2023, 05:44:40 PM »
Still be interesting to know the split though.
We may never know but for me the point is not all were convinced so can we be blamed for also not being convinced.
No one is blaming you for having an opinion.  Let’s not forget some juries have not been convinced by the evidence against those who actually did commit crimes and criminals have walked free.  In fact even if a jury were all 100% convinced of guilt  it doesn’t necessarily mean the perpetrator actually did it.  It’s an imperfect system but what else is there?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline faithlilly

Re: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes
« Reply #937 on: January 31, 2023, 05:50:35 PM »
Shall we have the point again? - It is not about washing clean, it is about washing over the point. It is not about the tactics being accepted, the lies and manipulation to illicit whatever response, and in this instance there are several at play to evoke. One being, to add whatever else to the creation of monsters, guns, dynamite, more limbs - The more that is added to the monsters, only serves to show how strong the evidence against Mitchell was, and not its weakness. That these many others investigated were eliminated, but not Mitchell.

Now we deal with investigated, which is very much the point around tactics, the deception and the manipulation. For in that point, there is that it is all tactical, with the only intent to deceive. The liars, the manipulators who do it at will, are the very ones telling you that no other person was investigated, that is the point - Spinning a yarn. That when a murder happens, and as highlighted, many of the public contact the police, some valid and some "crazies" Which and again around the monsters, only serves to show what was investigated and eliminated at the time.

Now we place these many others that have suspect applied to them, by the liars, the manipulators who do this with ease. They are not suspects, they are people who were caught up in some young girl being murdered. Who at the point of all being suspect, were investigated and eliminated. They are now only applied as imaginary suspects, by the people who have spun a yarn, the very people, who with such ease, can and do lie and manipulate at will with their tactics.

You are told there was no evidence, by the people who are spinning a yarn, the very people who you boast are getting response around tactics used, when the yarn in itself is a tactic. From the people who do it across the board, the liars and manipulators who are spinning a yarn.

This case built upon evidence where a substantial amount came from a compulsive liar/s- Who attempted to spin a yarn themselves. In turn to be heard, to have a voice, needs like minded people, kindred spirits, to spin that yarn on repeat. What people do do, when they see a lie, another, then another, is they place one mighty big ? around everything, starting right from those three words "I am innocent"


It is not "Why would I lie to risk a dangerous killer back on our streets?" It poses no risk at all. It is, why do you? A brief example, 2003 and Mitchell spun a yarn to the local mouthpiece (her description, not mines). The 'rushing up a path' - Access gained to defence papers and saw without any doubt those lies, that is not up for debate. So, one changed the narrative more to spin further yarn, to cover the lies on repeat from Mitchell ---------- Having spent years putting out a false narrative, one without doubt sought only to back that, by using whatever to keep that spinning going.

That direction of the Judge around accepting a strong majority saw the Jury return in no time. Because people are spun a yarn they live under an illusion, that had there been insufficient evidence in law to convict equates to Mitchell not having killed Jodi Jones - Not true in the slightest, the truth is a far cry from the yarn spun. He would have become (like thousands more) a statistic of an offender getting off. The factually guilty walking free.

Yep….we get it. You think Dr Lean is a liar and is being controlled by Luke who is also a liar. All the people who think that there has been a terrible miscarriage of justice are either fools or liars. Only those who think Luke is guilty have any credibility because…spookily….it agrees with your view.

BTW….if there is ‘reasonable doubt’ then the defendant is innocent. Had there been ‘ insufficient evidence’ to convict then the defendant is innocent in law.  You may not accept that…but your acceptance really isn’t necessary.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Mr Apples

Re: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes
« Reply #938 on: January 31, 2023, 06:07:03 PM »

Ah here it is.

“And upon very good authority I will leave you with that direction to the jury, of the acceptance of a strong majority of no less than 13. In circumstantial cases there is always going to be room for doubt upon those who need direct evidence. ”

^ Is the above a direct verbatim quote from official guidelines and directives that all Scottish judges are to adhere to? Or was it a quote from Lord Nimmo Smith himself after the closing speeches from the defence and prosecution? Can you clarify?  Sorry, I'm a tad confused.

Offline KenMair

Re: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes
« Reply #939 on: January 31, 2023, 06:14:04 PM »
Yep….we get it. You think Dr Lean is a liar and is being controlled by Luke who is also a liar. All the people who think that there has been a terrible miscarriage of justice are either fools or liars. Only those who think Luke is guilty have any credibility because…spookily….it agrees with your view..

At what point will Mitchell's defenders start calling SL, "Dear Leader"? Is there a reason she calls herself "Dr Lean, leading criminologist" apart from vanity? I know she technically is an academic Dr but the ones I know never mention it and have research and academic affiliations or peer recommendations. Forbes at least got a work placement as a trainee lawyer.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes
« Reply #940 on: January 31, 2023, 06:32:19 PM »
At what point will Mitchell's defenders start calling SL, "Dear Leader"? Is there a reason she calls herself "Dr Lean, leading criminologist" apart from vanity? I know she technically is an academic Dr but the ones I know never mention it and have research and academic affiliations or peer recommendations. Forbes at least got a work placement as a trainee lawyer.

Sorry I’m not sure what point you are trying to make but as you’ve made it twice now I thought it deserved an answer.
Dr Lean has worked hard for her title therefore I think she deserves to be called it. I have never heard her call herself a leading criminologist….other people tend to call her that, when she appears on television or in the print media and such. Do you blame her for that too?

Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline KenMair

Re: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes
« Reply #941 on: January 31, 2023, 06:46:21 PM »
Sorry I’m not sure what point you are trying to make but as you’ve made it twice now I thought it deserved an answer.
Dr Lean has worked hard for her title therefore I think she deserves to be called it. I have never heard her call herself a leading criminologist….other people tend to call her that, when she appears on television or in the print media and such. Do you blame her for that too?

Being hard working and being a recognised expert in your field are not the same thing. Like the football manager sacked after a string of bad results is usually defended by his friends in the media as hard working even though he wasn't very good at his job.

SL calls herself a "leading criminologist" on her FB page but there is no evidence to support this, particularly given the spectacular errors of judgement she made in earlier cases.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes
« Reply #942 on: January 31, 2023, 07:01:41 PM »
Being hard working and being a recognised expert in your field are not the same thing. Like the football manager sacked after a string of bad results is usually defended by his friends in the media as hard working even though he wasn't very good at his job.

SL calls herself a "leading criminologist" on her FB page but there is no evidence to support this, particularly given the spectacular errors of judgement she made in earlier cases.

I’m afraid you are absolutely wrong about Dr Lean calling herself ‘ a leading criminologist’ on her Facebook page and I’m not sure where you are getting your information from.

Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Myster

Re: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes
« Reply #943 on: January 31, 2023, 07:09:35 PM »
^^^^^^^^...
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline KenMair

Re: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes
« Reply #944 on: January 31, 2023, 07:19:52 PM »
Thanks Myster, I was just about to do that. Sorry Faithlily, you really are too far gone to discuss this case.

And to reiterate whether she is a leading criminologist - there is no evidence to support that whether she or someone else calls her that.