Author Topic: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?  (Read 22564 times)

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Offline The General

Re: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2019, 04:40:49 PM »
Why not?
The supposed MO is totally different, assuming a perp exists / existed in the MM case - occupied dwellings, older children, sneaking about in the early hours, no 'abduction' or even attempted.
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Offline Lace

Re: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?
« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2019, 04:49:36 PM »
We are told by the detectives the intruder entered between the hours of 2 am and 5 am and that he remained calm and may have spent some time in the apartment beforehand.  What was the evidence for him being in the apartment beforehand?  If this was the case and he then entered the children's bedrooms, sitting on their beds and talking to them in English where were the adults when all this was going on?  These were young children all 10 yoa and under. 

The info provided by DI Robson and DCI Redwood is patchy to say the least and raises more questions than answers.  What were they hoping to achieve from the broadcast?  More families coming forward to gather more intelligence?  How come from all these victims/witnesses it wasn't possible to produce an e-fit?  And how come all the families are British? 

How did he get out?  The same way he came in I guess?  DCI Rewood sai 9/12 no signs of forced entry.

It could be he was rifling through the apartment looking for things to steal,  he maybe moved things or took things  the parents would  notice that.  I think he spoke when one child asked 'is that you dad' and he said 'yes'. they noticed he was dark skinned, but didn't they say he wore a mask?  So how would they know what he looked like to produce an e-fit.

I think the whole idea of the broadcast was to show the top he was wearing with the white ring on the back.

« Last Edit: November 26, 2019, 04:52:39 PM by Lace »

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?
« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2019, 05:18:41 PM »
The supposed MO is totally different, assuming a perp exists / existed in the MM case - occupied dwellings, older children, sneaking about in the early hours, no 'abduction' or even attempted.
And yet also very similar- holiday apartment, no forced entry, young girls targetted.  Perhaps the perpetrator realised that he wasn’t going to get what he wanted from sitting on a beg in an occupied apartment and that removing the child first would be more in keeping with his desired outcome.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline The General

Re: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2019, 05:22:00 PM »
And yet also very similar- holiday apartment, no forced entry, young girls targetted.  Perhaps the perpetrator realised that he wasn’t going to get what he wanted from sitting on a beg in an occupied apartment and that removing the child first would be more in keeping with his desired outcome.
I would suggest that, if these two crimes occurred, on balance it would be unlikely that an investigating force would come up with a repeat offender, given the apparent disparity in MO.
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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?
« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2019, 05:25:48 PM »
I would suggest that, if these two crimes occurred, on balance it would be unlikely that an investigating force would come up with a repeat offender, given the apparent disparity in MO.
I don’t understand your point.  This was a repeat offender, unless you’re saying the MO in each case was different?  It’s not uncommon for sexual predators to start off by stealing knickers off clotheslines and flashing their meat andtwo veg in the park before progressing to more serious offences. 
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline The General

Re: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?
« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2019, 05:30:40 PM »
I don’t understand your point.  This was a repeat offender, unless you’re saying the MO in each case was different?  It’s not uncommon for sexual predators to start off by stealing knickers off clotheslines and flashing their meat andtwo veg in the park before progressing to more serious offences.
So the initial 'crimes' were simply gateway? Over course of a few weeks?
Yes, the supposed MO's were not even remotely close. More importantly, the apparent motives were polar opposite - petty theft and apparent sexual molestation? (quite a heady mix in an apartment occupied by adults) and supposed abduction.
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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2019, 05:40:12 PM »
So the initial 'crimes' were simply gateway? Over course of a few weeks?
Yes, the supposed MO's were not even remotely close. More importantly, the apparent motives were polar opposite - petty theft and apparent sexual molestation? (quite a heady mix in an apartment occupied by adults) and supposed abduction.
They were over the course of more than a few weeks.  I don’t understand your second point.  Who claimed the perpetrator’s chief motive for these specific crimes was burglary?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2019, 05:45:41 PM »
If you want to molest the children of holidaymakers but are thwarted because they are generally not left unattended, would not the middle of the night when the parents are likely fast asleep the best time to strike?  And wouldn’t it be a gift to find a family in an easy to access apartment where the pretty little girl has been left all alone?  No need to enter in the night, and why not remove the child all together? 
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline John

Re: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2019, 06:11:11 PM »
And yet also very similar- holiday apartment, no forced entry, young girls targetted.  Perhaps the perpetrator realised that he wasn’t going to get what he wanted from sitting on a beg in an occupied apartment and that removing the child first would be more in keeping with his desired outcome.

But these things go on in just about every tourist resort in the world, it is a sad fact of life unfortunately that tourists attract thieves and opportunists wherever they go.

As far as I know the Praia da Luz resort didn't have a history of children being abducted at night and that applies pre and post Madeleine's disappearance.  I find it very hard to believe that any abductor from outside the area would intentionally travel all the way to Luz to carry out an abduction knowing that he could be challenged on one of the few roads which lead away from the town. The risk factor simply excludes such a possibility imo.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2019, 06:17:53 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?
« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2019, 06:13:11 PM »
But these things go on in just about every tourist resort in the world, it is a sad fact of life unfortunately that tourists attract thieves and opportunists wherever they go.
And this is a reason why the perpetrator of these crimes could not be involved in Madeleine’s disappearance also? 
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?
« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2019, 06:21:07 PM »
But these things go on in just about every tourist resort in the world, it is a sad fact of life unfortunately that tourists attract thieves and opportunists wherever they go.

As far as I know the Praia da Luz resort didn't have a history of children being abducted at night and that applies pre and post Madeleine's disappearance.  I find it very hard to believe that any abductor from outside the area would intentionally travel all the way to Luz to carry out an abduction knowing that he could be challenged on one of the few roads which lead away from the town. The risk factor simply excludes such a possibility imo.
I disagree John.... Two disappeared children... Both investigated by amaral and in both the parents blamed... I don't think cipriano was guilty.

No dna, database... V little cctv... A criminals paradise imo

Offline John

Re: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?
« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2019, 06:26:57 PM »
I disagree John.... Two disappeared children... Both investigated by amaral and in both the parents blamed... I don't think cipriano was guilty.

No dna, database... V little cctv... A criminals paradise imo

Without inviting yet another sojourn into the Cipriano thread...

It is hardly surprising that the parent(s) were blamed in both cases when one considers that in the vast majority of child abduction cases the perpetrator(s) turn out to be a parent or parents or other family members.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?
« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2019, 06:28:52 PM »
Without inviting yet another sojourn into the Cipriano thread...

It is hardly surprising that the parent(s) were blamed in both cases when one considers that in the vast majority of child abduction cases the perpetrator(s) turn out to be parents or other family members.

But not in every case... According to a Portuguese journalist transcrpit on this site very few Portuguese believe cipriano is guilty
« Last Edit: November 26, 2019, 06:31:11 PM by Davel »

Offline John

Re: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?
« Reply #43 on: November 26, 2019, 06:29:39 PM »
But not in every case

Infrequently certainly.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?
« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2019, 06:37:51 PM »
But not in every case... According to a Portuguese journalist transcrpit on this site very few Portuguese believe cipriano is guilty

Depends what you mean by guilty.  I for one don't believe she killed her daughter but she assisted an offender after the fact and lied about it.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.