UK Justice Forum

Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: kizzy on April 08, 2021, 10:22:12 AM

Title: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on April 08, 2021, 10:22:12 AM
When it seems some posters think what happened on the night of the 3/05/2007 is historical.

Also the mccs have been completely ruled out and the only way forward now is concentrating on the German suspect.



Imo nothing has changed since that night evidence wise apart from a long line of so called suspects that come to nothing.

There is still no evidence the Maddie was abducted from her bed.

Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 08, 2021, 11:26:51 AM
And there is no evidence that the McCanns hid her body so that's that then.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on April 08, 2021, 11:30:51 AM
And there is no evidence that the McCanns hid her body so that's that then.

There is no evidence that anyone else did either.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: G-Unit on April 08, 2021, 11:43:08 AM
When it seems some posters think what happened on the night of the 3/05/2007 is historical.

Also the mccs have been completely ruled out and the only way forward now is concentrating on the German suspect.

Imo nothing has changed since that night evidence wise apart from a long line of so called suspects that come to nothing.

There is still no evidence the Maddie was abducted from her bed.

Stranger abduction was a theory which became a 'fact', despite the lack of evidence. In my opinion one of the reasons it became a 'fact' was constant repetition.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20161026-how-liars-create-the-illusion-of-truth#:~:text=%E2%80%9CRepeat%20a%20lie%20often%20enough,%22illusion%20of%20truth%22%20effect.




Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on April 08, 2021, 12:29:39 PM
Nothing it seems was ever straight forward.

The mccs said an abduction took place - even though no evidence of one apart from there say so.

IMO inconsistency's were ignored any one who dared contradict there version were either sued or got rid of.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on April 08, 2021, 12:36:47 PM
Nothing it seems was ever straight forward.

The mccs said an abduction took place - even though no evidence of one apart from there say so.

IMO inconsistency's were ignored any one who dared contradict there version were either sued or got rid of.

This is bordering on Libel.  Please don't do this.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on April 08, 2021, 12:37:49 PM
Nothing it seems was ever straight forward.

The mccs said an abduction took place - even though no evidence of one apart from there say so.

IMO inconsistency's were ignored any one who dared contradict there version were either sued or got rid of.

There is so much wrong with your post that is for the most part wrong...or misinformed.

I dont know any poster who has calimed the McCAnns are 100% innocent...that is impossible for anyone to determine at the moment.

I dont know any poster who has claimed abduction as a fact...my opinion is that its the most likely at the moment.

As regards evidence of abduction...you claim there is none...how can you possibly know that.

From everything HCW has said I think he has almost proof of abduction....but not proof it was CB who was responsible
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 08, 2021, 01:14:33 PM


I seem to remember a big lipped body language 'expert' telling ITV viewers the McCanns were 100% innocent.

Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 08, 2021, 01:29:11 PM
Stranger abduction was a theory which became a 'fact', despite the lack of evidence. In my opinion one of the reasons it became a 'fact' was constant repetition.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20161026-how-liars-create-the-illusion-of-truth#:~:text=%E2%80%9CRepeat%20a%20lie%20often%20enough,%22illusion%20of%20truth%22%20effect.
Who exactly are you accusing of repeatedly lying in order to make stranger abduction a fact?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on April 08, 2021, 01:50:56 PM
This is bordering on Libel.  Please don't do this.
It is also a load of ill informed opinionated nonsense particularly when cognisance of current affairs is fed into the equation.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on April 08, 2021, 02:00:28 PM
Stranger abduction was a theory which became a 'fact', despite the lack of evidence. In my opinion one of the reasons it became a 'fact' was constant repetition.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20161026-how-liars-create-the-illusion-of-truth#:~:text=%E2%80%9CRepeat%20a%20lie%20often%20enough,%22illusion%20of%20truth%22%20effect.

Stranger abduction was a theory which was discarded according to Amaral who confirms that Christian Brueckner was visited by the Judicial Police along with others of his ilk in preference for Amaral's Calpol led imaginings as he indulged his performance of "Cipriano the sequel".
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: barrier on April 08, 2021, 02:10:22 PM
Stranger abduction was a theory which was discarded according to Amaral who confirms that Christian Brueckner was visited by the Judicial Police along with others of his ilk in preference for Amaral's Calpol led imaginings as he indulged his performance of "Cipriano the sequel".

Fill's a space one supposes.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on April 08, 2021, 02:29:40 PM
There is so much wrong with your post that is for the most part wrong...or misinformed.

I dont know any poster who has calimed the McCAnns are 100% innocent...that is impossible for anyone to determine at the moment.

I dont know any poster who has claimed abduction as a fact...my opinion is that its the most likely at the moment.

As regards evidence of abduction...you claim there is none...how can you possibly know that.

From everything HCW has said I think he has almost proof of abduction....but not proof it was CB who was responsible

Its only what you think though D - how can you possibly know that Wolt has evidence of an abduction.

Again only words.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: G-Unit on April 08, 2021, 02:43:36 PM
Who exactly are you accusing of repeatedly lying in order to make stranger abduction a fact?

Sharing a theory isn't lying, neither is repeating it.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on April 08, 2021, 02:46:37 PM
Its only what you think though D - how can you possibly know that Wolt has evidence of an abduction.

Again only words.


I can make avery good inference based on everything he has said and the situation as a whole.  To me everything he has said fits together perfectly...we will have to wait and see who is right...Im confident
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on April 08, 2021, 03:31:18 PM

I can make avery good inference based on everything he has said and the situation as a whole.  To me everything he has said fits together perfectly...we will have to wait and see who is right...Im confident

Yes we will have to see - it could come to another dead end.

Or maybe it already has. seems not everyone is as confident as you.

worth a look - someone who has followed the case from early on doesnt seem to think CB is involved.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD8OlQqRhT8

There are so many theories, conversations, and arguments over what actually happened to Maddie McCann...was it an abduction by a child predator, was it an accident covered up, or was it an even more nefarious crime involving a number of people there at the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz during the spring of 2007?

In this video, I break down the most important evidence to focus in on what is the most likely scenario of what happened to Madeleine McCann;  the top five clues in the Madeleine McCann case that support the theory of the McCann involvement and I will also discuss the ZERO clues any police agency has that supports the abduction theory.


Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on April 08, 2021, 04:34:38 PM
Yes we will have to see - it could come to another dead end.

Or maybe it already has. seems not everyone is as confident as you.

worth a look - someone who has followed the case from early on doesnt seem to think CB is involved.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD8OlQqRhT8

There are so many theories, conversations, and arguments over what actually happened to Maddie McCann...was it an abduction by a child predator, was it an accident covered up, or was it an even more nefarious crime involving a number of people there at the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz during the spring of 2007?

In this video, I break down the most important evidence to focus in on what is the most likely scenario of what happened to Madeleine McCann;  the top five clues in the Madeleine McCann case that support the theory of the McCann involvement and I will also discuss the ZERO clues any police agency has that supports the abduction theory.

If you listen to it she says the dog alerts are very strong evidence....she hasnt got a clue but is  a leading amaral supporter. If you want to beleive someone who obviously hasnt a clue its up to you
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 08, 2021, 05:32:10 PM
Sharing a theory isn't lying, neither is repeating it.
Then what was the significance of the link you posted?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on April 09, 2021, 02:21:24 PM
If you listen to it she says the dog alerts are very strong evidence....she hasnt got a clue but is  a leading amaral supporter. If you want to beleive someone who obviously hasnt a clue its up to you


I think you will find she mentioned a lot more than the dogs.

So what if she does support GA you don't know he was wrong in believing the mccs were involved - even to this day.

Also, IMO knows more what is going on in Germany than you do.

As always you are just a poster on a forum giving your opinion - same as me.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: jassi on April 09, 2021, 02:25:38 PM

I think you will find she mentioned a lot more than the dogs.

So what if she does support GA you don't know he was wrong in believing the mccs were involved - even to this day.

Also, IMO knows more what is going on in Germany than you do.

As always you are just a poster on a forum giving your opinion - same as me.

In this sort of situation, Hilda Baker's catch phrase always comes to mind. Gender corrected  8(>((
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 09, 2021, 03:45:08 PM
In this sort of situation, Hilda Baker's catch phrase always comes to mind. Gender corrected  8(>((
"you're the one that I want - ooo, ooo, ooo"?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: barrier on April 09, 2021, 04:39:45 PM
In this sort of situation, Hilda Baker's catch phrase always comes to mind. Gender corrected  8(>((


She know's you know.

Have you been.

I can say that without fear of contraception

You've not had the pleasure of me yet.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 09, 2021, 04:49:44 PM

I think you will find she mentioned a lot more than the dogs.

So what if she does support GA you don't know he was wrong in believing the mccs were involved - even to this day.

Also, IMO knows more what is going on in Germany than you do.

As always you are just a poster on a forum giving your opinion - same as me.
You think Pat Brown knows what is going on in Germany better than Davel?  May I ask why you think that?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on April 09, 2021, 05:17:09 PM
You think Pat Brown knows what is going on in Germany better than Davel?  May I ask why you think that?

Not The Pat Brown that taught the entire FBI how to Profile?  That Pat Brown?  Such a pity that The FBI have no recollection of this.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on April 10, 2021, 10:47:02 AM
It is also a load of ill informed opinionated nonsense particularly when cognisance of current affairs is fed into the equation.


That's only your opinion B - every one has a right to their opinion

Why should you be right focusing on the current affairs. as if it is more or less cut an dried.

G A said Maddie was dead.  HCW says Maddie is dead.

No one is any nearer it seems as to what happened to Maddie - it is not set in stone the mccs were not involved or cleared.

There is nothing to prove that anyone removed Maddie from 5a.

Every option should still be open as to  what happened to Maddie.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: jassi on April 10, 2021, 11:04:49 AM

That's only your opinion B - every one has a right to their opinion

Why should you be right focusing on the current affairs. as if it is more or less cut an dried.

G A said Maddie was dead.  HCW says Maddie is dead.

No one is any nearer it seems as to what happened to Maddie - it is not set in stone the mccs were not involved or cleared.

There is nothing to prove that anyone removed Maddie from 5a.

Every option should still be open as to  what happened to Maddie.

You'll observe how supporters attack  anti-McCann arguments  by claiming they are rubbish and by extension, so are sceptics for putting them forward
Almost as if they have to prove something  to someone .
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 10, 2021, 11:10:53 AM
You'll observe how supporters attack  anti-McCann arguments  by claiming they are rubbish and by extension, so are sceptics for putting them forward
Almost as if they have to prove something  to someone .
Isn't that a bit like McCann sceptics attacking HCW's theory of CB's involvement and seeking to downplay the latter's crimes at every available opportunity, almost as if THEY have something to prove?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: G-Unit on April 10, 2021, 11:23:06 AM
You'll observe how supporters attack  anti-McCann arguments  by claiming they are rubbish and by extension, so are sceptics for putting them forward
Almost as if they have to prove something  to someone .

One way of answering when people raise questions is to provide evidence which answers them. Another way of answering is to suggest the questions don't really exist and that the questioners are stupid, have sinister motives, or are just trolls.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 10, 2021, 11:35:49 AM
One way of answering when people raise questions is to provide evidence which answers them. Another way of answering is to suggest the questions don't really exist and that the questioners are stupid, have sinister motives, or are just trolls.
Unfortunately that is a rather apt description of most conspiracy theorists I have encountered.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: G-Unit on April 10, 2021, 12:12:27 PM
Unfortunately that is a rather apt description of most conspiracy theorists I have encountered.

That's just another of the methods used; suggesting that those with questions are part of some conspiracy to attack the McCanns. To conspire means to secretly plan with others. I have questions, but I've never been approached to join with others in some kind of organised movement. I've heard of McCann supporters banding together to monitor and gather information on others though.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: jassi on April 10, 2021, 12:15:09 PM
That's just another of the methods used; suggesting that those with questions are part of some conspiracy to attack the McCanns. To conspire means to secretly plan with others. I have questions, but I've never been approached to join with others in some kind of organised movement. I've heard of McCann supporters banding together to monitor and gather information on others though.

I have heard that some of them have physically met socially.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 10, 2021, 01:56:47 PM
I have heard that some of them have physically met socially.

If they can meet in person to discuss online trolls then there's absolutely no reason they can't meet up & organise search parties.

If supporters really want Maddie found safe & well they should be out every day looking for her, not just meeting up for coffee or sending thoughts & prayers, because that's just pathetic virtue signalling & is of precisely zero benefit to Maddie.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on April 10, 2021, 02:06:48 PM
That's just another of the methods used; suggesting that those with questions are part of some conspiracy to attack the McCanns. To conspire means to secretly plan with others. I have questions, but I've never been approached to join with others in some kind of organised movement. I've heard of McCann supporters banding together to monitor and gather information on others though.

You have heard of.  No Cite then.  Just your peculiar opinion.

And if you think I spend my time getting together with others of my ilk then you have got a serious problem.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on April 10, 2021, 02:18:17 PM
I have heard that some of them have physically met socially.

Oh, golly gosh.  I have met Sadie a couple of times.  I don't necessarily agree with everything that she believes.  But I like her because she cares.

My E-mail address is who I am.  One of the very few people on this board who is not ashamed to be known as a McCann Supporter by name.

Perhaps some of the rest of you should try it before you spew your bile.

Maureen Eccles Lang.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on April 10, 2021, 02:27:14 PM
That's just another of the methods used; suggesting that those with questions are part of some conspiracy to attack the McCanns. To conspire means to secretly plan with others. I have questions, but I've never been approached to join with others in some kind of organised movement. I've heard of McCann supporters banding together to monitor and gather information on others though.

you seem to have  avery closed viewpoint.....remember the meetings organised by Bennet and lectures now organised by R D Hall
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 10, 2021, 03:24:58 PM
That's just another of the methods used; suggesting that those with questions are part of some conspiracy to attack the McCanns. To conspire means to secretly plan with others. I have questions, but I've never been approached to join with others in some kind of organised movement. I've heard of McCann supporters banding together to monitor and gather information on others though.
I think you misunderstand what is meant by conspiracy theorist then.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on April 10, 2021, 03:27:14 PM
you seem to have  avery closed viewpoint.....remember the meetings organised by Bennet and lectures now organised by R D Hall


                      HiDeHo's Diplomas 👀
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 10, 2021, 03:43:15 PM
If they can meet in person to discuss online trolls then there's absolutely no reason they can't meet up & organise search parties.

If supporters really want Maddie found safe & well they should be out every day looking for her, not just meeting up for coffee or sending thoughts & prayers, because that's just pathetic virtue signalling & is of precisely zero benefit to Maddie.
That's as barmy as suggesting that anyone who thinks the parents are child neglectors, paedos and body occulters needs to stage an intervention to get the twins taken into care, or picket outside their local police station to demand the McCanns are arrested.  Oops!  Probably given some saddoes some ideas there.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on April 10, 2021, 03:49:57 PM
What is it in the psyche of some people who so desperately want two parents to be responsible for the death of their child when there is no evidence to suggest that they are?

I didn't have a very nice childhood, but I don't think in this fashion.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: jassi on April 10, 2021, 04:17:53 PM
What is it in the psyche of some people who so desperately want two parents to be responsible for the death of their child when there is no evidence to suggest that they are?

I didn't have a very nice childhood, but I don't think in this fashion.

You think that people who happen to disagree with you are desperate ?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on April 10, 2021, 04:24:45 PM
You think that people who happen to disagree with you are desperate ?

No.  Just sad articles.  And probably not even their fault
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 10, 2021, 04:53:37 PM
You think that people who happen to disagree with you are desperate ?
It does seem terribly important to some people that the McCanns are found guilty of Madeleine's disappearance.  They've been at it for 14 years working hard at convincing themselves and anyone that will listen that "dogs don't lie" and all that blah.  How are these people going to cope with the realisation that 14 years of determined internet campaigning was all completely in vain and not only that but also misdirected and misguided?  I know how they'll cope.  By completely ignoring reality and continuing on regardless because basically that's what's happening now anyway. 
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 10, 2021, 07:23:48 PM
It does seem terribly important to some people that the McCanns are found guilty of Madeleine's disappearance.  They've been at it for 14 years working hard at convincing themselves and anyone that will listen that "dogs don't lie" and all that blah.  How are these people going to cope with the realisation that 14 years of determined internet campaigning was all completely in vain and not only that but also misdirected and misguided?  I know how they'll cope.  By completely ignoring reality and continuing on regardless because basically that's what's happening now anyway.

I'm not ignoring reality.

The reality is that Brueckner is innocent of all charges against him (of which there are none) until he's proven guilty.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Anthro on April 10, 2021, 09:15:49 PM
I'm not ignoring reality.

The reality is that Brueckner is innocent of all charges against him (of which there are none) until he's proven guilty.
What about the rape and torture of Diana Menkes?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: jassi on April 10, 2021, 09:28:50 PM
What about the rape and torture of Diana Menkes?

Is that the elderly American woman ?
If so already dealt with & found guilty.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Anthro on April 10, 2021, 09:45:34 PM
Is that the elderly American woman ?
If so already dealt with & found guilty.
Yes. How can Brückner be described as innocent of all charges?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: jassi on April 10, 2021, 09:46:53 PM
Yes. How can Brückner be described as innocent of all charges?

If you actually read what Spammy said - innocent of all charges until found guilty
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Anthro on April 10, 2021, 10:04:56 PM
If you actually read what Spammy said - innocent of all charges until found guilty
Brückner is currently in prison for raping Diana Menkes. Is the comment and reference related to Madeleine in particular?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 10, 2021, 10:40:25 PM
I'm not ignoring reality.

The reality is that Brueckner is innocent of all charges against him (of which there are none) until he's proven guilty.
The reality is that Bruckner is the prime suspect, not the McCanns.  How on earth do you rationalise that to yourself?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: jassi on April 11, 2021, 09:13:37 AM
Brückner is currently in prison for raping Diana Menkes. Is the comment and reference related to Madeleine in particular?

Relate it to what you want.
As yet Brueckner has not been charged with anything that he hasn't already been tried for.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on April 11, 2021, 09:24:21 AM

How can The McCanns not be 100% Innocent?  They don't need to be cleared.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: G-Unit on April 11, 2021, 10:49:58 AM
How can The McCanns not be 100% Innocent?  They don't need to be cleared.

They needed to be eliminated, but weren't.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 11, 2021, 10:52:44 AM
They needed to be eliminated, but weren't.
Perhaps you can explain something: if they weren't eliminated why is Christian Bruckner the prime suspect in Madeleine's disappearance and not them? 
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on April 11, 2021, 11:09:35 AM
They needed to be eliminated, but weren't.

Thats your very biased opinion...my opinion is they are eliminated.. Both SY and BKK have said so. The last statement by the PJ said they are not suspects and there's no evidence against them
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on April 11, 2021, 12:13:32 PM
They needed to be eliminated, but weren't.

So did an awful lot of other people, but they weren't eliminated either.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 11, 2021, 12:27:20 PM
Hiroo Onoda, an Imperial Japanese Army officer who remained at his jungle post on an island in the Philippines for 29 years, refusing to believe that World War II was over has IMO alot in common with those who refuse to believe the McCanns aren't still in the frame over their child's disappearance.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 11, 2021, 12:38:57 PM
The reality is that Bruckner is the prime suspect, not the McCanns.  How on earth do you rationalise that to yourself?

Quite easily really.

Investigating the McCanns wasn't part of Grange's remit.

And the German investigation is flawed because they haven't even interviewed all the witnesses.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 11, 2021, 12:48:55 PM
Quite easily really.

Investigating the McCanns wasn't part of Grange's remit.

And the German investigation is flawed because they haven't even interviewed all the witnesses.
So in your opinion when the Met conducted their major review of all the evidence they saw all the evidence pointing to the McCanns but decided to ignore it on orders from above?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on April 11, 2021, 12:54:17 PM
Hiroo Onoda, an Imperial Japanese Army officer who remained at his jungle post on an island in the Philippines for 29 years, refusing to believe that World War II was over has IMO alot in common with those who refuse to believe the McCanns aren't still in the frame over their child's disappearance.

At least he had some sense of honour.  There is no honour in perpetually attacking The McCanns.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 11, 2021, 12:57:30 PM
So in your opinion when the Met conducted their major review of all the evidence they saw all the evidence pointing to the McCanns but decided to ignore it on orders from above?

I don't know how they worked it exactly but where there's a will there's a way.

When they release the official police files to the public, like police in any good democracy should, then we'll find out what went on.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 11, 2021, 01:01:10 PM
I don't know how they worked it exactly but where there's a will there's a way.

When they release the official police files to the public, like police in any good democracy should, then we'll find out what went on.
So you can't rationalise it just I thought.  Thanks for that!
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on April 11, 2021, 01:02:24 PM
I don't know how they worked it exactly but where there's a will there's a way.

When they release the official police files to the public, like police in any good democracy should, then we'll find out what went on.

This isn't going to happen.  So dream on.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: G-Unit on April 11, 2021, 01:35:05 PM
So in your opinion when the Met conducted their major review of all the evidence they saw all the evidence pointing to the McCanns but decided to ignore it on orders from above?

If you examine evidence looking for leads which might lead to an abductor then that's what you'll find.

Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood, who is leading the review, said: ‘We genuinely believe there is a possibility she is alive.’

He revealed his dedicated team – of 28 officers and seven civilian staff – had identified 195 ‘investigative opportunities’ to follow up after examining a huge bundle of material, including a number of potential sightings from around the world.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2134756/Maddie-alive--Scotland-Yard-team-reviewing-case-abandoned-Portuguese-195-leads-believe-finally-end-McCanns-torment.html

Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 11, 2021, 03:34:23 PM
If you examine evidence looking for leads which might lead to an abductor then that's what you'll find.

Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood, who is leading the review, said: ‘We genuinely believe there is a possibility she is alive.’

He revealed his dedicated team – of 28 officers and seven civilian staff – had identified 195 ‘investigative opportunities’ to follow up after examining a huge bundle of material, including a number of potential sightings from around the world.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2134756/Maddie-alive--Scotland-Yard-team-reviewing-case-abandoned-Portuguese-195-leads-believe-finally-end-McCanns-torment.html
So in your opinion when the Met conducted their major review of all the evidence they saw all the evidence pointing to the McCanns but decided to ignore it on orders from above? They had McCann blinkers on did they?  Trained themselves to avert their gaze from the huge mountain of evidence in the files pointing to parental involvement did they?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on April 11, 2021, 04:20:44 PM
So in your opinion when the Met conducted their major review of all the evidence they saw all the evidence pointing to the McCanns but decided to ignore it on orders from above? They had McCann blinkers on did they?  Trained themselves to avert their gaze from the huge mountain of evidence in the files pointing to parental involvement did they?

This all ought to be laughable, but somehow it isn't.  But then there are a lot of very sad people out there for whom only the death of Madeleine at the hands of her parents will do.

This is never going to happen.  And the longer it goes on then the more incensed they will become.

Good hunting, you all.  I have ceased to feel sorry for you.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 11, 2021, 04:45:15 PM
This all ought to be laughable, but somehow it isn't.  But then there are a lot of very sad people out there for whom only the death of Madeleine at the hands of her parents will do.

This is never going to happen.  And the longer it goes on then the more incensed they will become.

Good hunting, you all.  I have ceased to feel sorry for you.
It is a bloody joke the fact that people have to believe all sorts of nonsense in order to rationalise their beliefs (in this case that the British Police were ordered (by whom?) to only consider the abduction theory, thereby ignoring any evidence that pointed to parental involvement and the German police force have simply gone along with it too). 
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 11, 2021, 05:24:59 PM
It is a bloody joke the fact that people have to believe all sorts of nonsense in order to rationalise their beliefs (in this case that the British Police were ordered (by whom?) to only consider the abduction theory, thereby ignoring any evidence that pointed to parental involvement and the German police force have simply gone along with it too).

All this nonsense can be firmly put to bed when someone proves Maddie was.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on April 11, 2021, 05:31:29 PM
It is a bloody joke the fact that people have to believe all sorts of nonsense in order to rationalise their beliefs (in this case that the British Police were ordered (by whom?) to only consider the abduction theory, thereby ignoring any evidence that pointed to parental involvement and the German police force have simply gone along with it too).

Colin Sutton was a bit too smart on that one.  He never said who told him that.  This could have been sour grapes because he was never asked in the first place.

But who cares.  He wasn't asked.  But not really surprising since he didn't know how to keep his mouth shut.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 11, 2021, 06:46:12 PM
All this nonsense can be firmly put to bed when someone proves Maddie was.
What would you accept as proof that she was abducted?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on April 11, 2021, 07:04:51 PM
Colin Sutton was a bit too smart on that one.  He never said who told him that.  This could have been sour grapes because he was never asked in the first place.

But who cares.  He wasn't asked.  But not really surprising since he didn't know how to keep his mouth shut.

Whoever spoke to Sutton never mentioned the McCanns
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: G-Unit on April 11, 2021, 08:55:20 PM
Whoever spoke to Sutton never mentioned the McCanns

This officer told me I would do better to avoid the McCann investigation if it did happen, because "You wouldn't be happy leading an investigation where you were told what you could look at and what you could not".
http://colinsutton.blogspot.com/2017/05/madeleine-mccann-and-operation-grange_9.html
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on April 11, 2021, 09:00:16 PM
This officer told me I would do better to avoid the McCann investigation if it did happen, because "You wouldn't be happy leading an investigation where you were told what you could look at and what you could not".
http://colinsutton.blogspot.com/2017/05/madeleine-mccann-and-operation-grange_9.html

So what was the name of this officer?  Did he actually exist?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on April 11, 2021, 09:22:46 PM
This officer told me I would do better to avoid the McCann investigation if it did happen, because "You wouldn't be happy leading an investigation where you were told what you could look at and what you could not".
http://colinsutton.blogspot.com/2017/05/madeleine-mccann-and-operation-grange_9.html

As I've said before he didn't say he wouldn't be able to look at the McCanns.. He may well have meant he would need permission from the Portuguese to look at anyone...Sutton assumed he meant the McCanns
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on April 12, 2021, 10:14:43 AM
If the McCanns are not suspects then they are clearly ruled out of the investigation at this moment in time... They are clearly not suspects
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: G-Unit on April 12, 2021, 10:52:11 AM
If the McCanns are not suspects then they are clearly ruled out of the investigation at this moment in time... They are clearly not suspects

That's obvious. What isn't obvious is why. I'm no detective but when people say the alarm was raised at or after 10pm why are there people who say they heard about it before or at 10pm?

That night, at around 2200 she learned that Madeleine had disappeared, and together with her colleagues she helped look for her.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA_WILDING.htm

That on the May 03, 2007, at around 22H45, she was in the bar known as ?Mirage? together with her colleagues, whose names are Emma, Shinead, Najoua Hayley and Stacy, which is situated close to the perimeter of the aforementioned resort. After returning from the bathroom, she was informed by her colleague Hayley that a child, of about 3 years of age, and whom was staying at the Ocean Club, had disappeared;
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SUSAN-OWEN.htm

2200 or 2245? Thats a big difference.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 12, 2021, 11:44:15 AM
That's obvious. What isn't obvious is why. I'm no detective but when people say the alarm was raised at or after 10pm why are there people who say they heard about it before or at 10pm?

That night, at around 2200 she learned that Madeleine had disappeared, and together with her colleagues she helped look for her.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA_WILDING.htm

That on the May 03, 2007, at around 22H45, she was in the bar known as ?Mirage? together with her colleagues, whose names are Emma, Shinead, Najoua Hayley and Stacy, which is situated close to the perimeter of the aforementioned resort. After returning from the bathroom, she was informed by her colleague Hayley that a child, of about 3 years of age, and whom was staying at the Ocean Club, had disappeared;
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SUSAN-OWEN.htm

2200 or 2245? Thats a big difference.
Do you really think this is significant?  Did anyone else say the alarm was raised closer to 11pm than 10pm, or is it possible looking at the sum total of witness testimony to arrive at a timeline just as the police have done (and even the PJ concluded it was around 10pm too when the alarm was raised)or do you simply not trust any police force to do their job properly and feel you could do a better job?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on April 12, 2021, 12:26:51 PM
That's obvious. What isn't obvious is why. I'm no detective but when people say the alarm was raised at or after 10pm why are there people who say they heard about it before or at 10pm?

That night, at around 2200 she learned that Madeleine had disappeared, and together with her colleagues she helped look for her.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA_WILDING.htm

That on the May 03, 2007, at around 22H45, she was in the bar known as ?Mirage? together with her colleagues, whose names are Emma, Shinead, Najoua Hayley and Stacy, which is situated close to the perimeter of the aforementioned resort. After returning from the bathroom, she was informed by her colleague Hayley that a child, of about 3 years of age, and whom was staying at the Ocean Club, had disappeared;
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SUSAN-OWEN.htm

2200 or 2245? Thats a big difference.

I think it's obvious but as you say you are not a detective
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: G-Unit on April 12, 2021, 01:30:21 PM
That's obvious. What isn't obvious is why. I'm no detective but when people say the alarm was raised at or after 10pm why are there people who say they heard about it before or at 10pm?

That night, at around 2200 she learned that Madeleine had disappeared, and together with her colleagues she helped look for her.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA_WILDING.htm

That on the May 03, 2007, at around 22H45, she was in the bar known as ?Mirage? together with her colleagues, whose names are Emma, Shinead, Najoua Hayley and Stacy, which is situated close to the perimeter of the aforementioned resort. After returning from the bathroom, she was informed by her colleague Hayley that a child, of about 3 years of age, and whom was staying at the Ocean Club, had disappeared;
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SUSAN-OWEN.htm

2200 or 2245? Thats a big difference.

Who was the English tourist who arrived at the Millenium at around 2200?

When questioned about the disappearance, she says she heard about it on that night at about 22.00 when an English tourist arrived at the Millenium restaurant to ask whether anyone had seen a lost little girl.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARIA_ROSA.htm
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 12, 2021, 01:54:00 PM
Who was the English tourist who arrived at the Millenium at around 2200?

When questioned about the disappearance, she says she heard about it on that night at about 22.00 when an English tourist arrived at the Millenium restaurant to ask whether anyone had seen a lost little girl.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARIA_ROSA.htm
It really doesn't matter so don't fret about it.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on April 12, 2021, 02:03:53 PM
It really doesn't matter so don't fret about it.

This is such ridiculous nit picking.  So some people weren't very precise about the time.

Madeleine has gone missing. Quick, check the time.  Really?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on April 12, 2021, 04:01:19 PM
Who was the English tourist who arrived at the Millenium at around 2200?

When questioned about the disappearance, she says she heard about it on that night at about 22.00 when an English tourist arrived at the Millenium restaurant to ask whether anyone had seen a lost little girl.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARIA_ROSA.htm
Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.

Sceptics know full well that the McCanns had absolutely nothing at all to do with Madeleine's disappearance in the nonsensical way ascribed to them and the hatred knows no bounds

Which is why sceptics have spent so much time and effort making all sorts of accusations and failed attempts to disrupt family life that they can come up with.

Ten years into Madeleine's disappearance yet another hateful petition raised its ugly head ~ this time making the attempt to have madeleine's siblings removed from a safe and secure environment and into care.
If that despicable attempt isn't child abuse, I don't know what is.

FREE THE MCCANN TWINS FROM CRIMINALLY SUSPICIOUS AND NEGLECTFUL PARENTS This petition had 62 supporters
https://www.change.org/p/national-free-the-mccann-twins-from-criminally-suspicious-and-neglectful-parents

Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on April 12, 2021, 04:53:19 PM
Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.

Sceptics know full well that the McCanns had absolutely nothing at all to do with Madeleine's disappearance in the nonsensical way ascribed to them and the hatred knows no bounds

Which is why sceptics have spent so much time and effort making all sorts of accusations and failed attempts to disrupt family life that they can come up with.

Ten years into Madeleine's disappearance yet another hateful petition raised its ugly head ~ this time making the attempt to have madeleine's siblings removed from a safe and secure environment and into care.
If that despicable attempt isn't child abuse, I don't know what is.

FREE THE MCCANN TWINS FROM CRIMINALLY SUSPICIOUS AND NEGLECTFUL PARENTS This petition had 62 supporters
https://www.change.org/p/national-free-the-mccann-twins-from-criminally-suspicious-and-neglectful-parents


Sceptics know full well that the McCanns had absolutely nothing at all to do with Madeleine's disappearance in the nonsensical way ascribed to them and the hatred knows no bounds


Bit OTT there B - how can not believing the mccs version of events be described as you have posted.

Nothing it seems was ever checked to say it happened the way the mcs  said it did.

Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on April 12, 2021, 06:09:13 PM

Sceptics know full well that the McCanns had absolutely nothing at all to do with Madeleine's disappearance in the nonsensical way ascribed to them and the hatred knows no bounds


Bit OTT there B - how can not believing the mccs version of events be described as you have posted.

Nothing it seems was ever checked to say it happened the way the mcs  said it did.

That is an incredibly inaccurate misstatement surely.  You seem to be asserting that the Policia Judicairia didn't check out witness statements.  Is that your belief?

I have posted an example of the horrid attacks the McCanns have been subjected to over the years.  One accusing them of child abuse while failing miserably to recognise the abuse to which the petition organisers and all sixty two signatories were actually in the process of perpetrating in their haste to berate the parents.

Just something along the lines of the malignant sentiment of your query in the thread topic.

A family has been made aware that there is a high probability that a rapist and paedophile might have been involved in their daughter's disappearance.
As they await the outcome of the investigation into that your thoughts are taken up with casting more slurs at them.

Quite extraordinary and really very sad 😢 very sad indeed.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: G-Unit on April 12, 2021, 08:51:30 PM
Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.

Sceptics know full well that the McCanns had absolutely nothing at all to do with Madeleine's disappearance in the nonsensical way ascribed to them and the hatred knows no bounds

Which is why sceptics have spent so much time and effort making all sorts of accusations and failed attempts to disrupt family life that they can come up with.

Ten years into Madeleine's disappearance yet another hateful petition raised its ugly head ~ this time making the attempt to have madeleine's siblings removed from a safe and secure environment and into care.
If that despicable attempt isn't child abuse, I don't know what is.

FREE THE MCCANN TWINS FROM CRIMINALLY SUSPICIOUS AND NEGLECTFUL PARENTS This petition had 62 supporters
https://www.change.org/p/national-free-the-mccann-twins-from-criminally-suspicious-and-neglectful-parents

Are you suggesting a connection between my post and yours? I'm discussing statements which cast doubt on the alarm being raised at 10pm (or 10:14 according to Gerry McCann), not child neglect.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 12, 2021, 09:02:55 PM
Are you suggesting a connection between my post and yours? I'm discussing statements which cast doubt on the alarm being raised at 10pm (or 10:14 according to Gerry McCann), not child neglect.
Out of interest how often do you think these has already been discussed on this forum and how many more times do you think you’ll be wanting to discuss them?  Perhaps we could start s brand new thread on the timeline and then a new one on the dogs while we’re at it.  I’m sure there’s probably alot we haven’t already covered on these subjects.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on April 12, 2021, 09:26:43 PM
Out of interest how often do you think these has already been discussed on this forum and how many more times do you think you’ll be wanting to discuss them?  Perhaps we could start s brand new thread on the timeline and then a new one on the dogs while we’re at it.  I’m sure there’s probably alot we haven’t already covered on these subjects.

Noooo, Purleaze.

Oh, okay then, why not.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: G-Unit on April 12, 2021, 10:56:58 PM
Out of interest how often do you think these has already been discussed on this forum and how many more times do you think you’ll be wanting to discuss them?  Perhaps we could start s brand new thread on the timeline and then a new one on the dogs while we’re at it.  I’m sure there’s probably alot we haven’t already covered on these subjects.

Is it a discussion when others refuse to discuss it?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on April 12, 2021, 11:03:34 PM
Is it a discussion when others refuse to discuss it?

Is there some Rule on this Forum that says we have to?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 12, 2021, 11:15:07 PM
Is it a discussion when others refuse to discuss it?
I’m sure Faith or Carly will be only too delighted to discuss it with you, but please do excuse me I have some slow-drying paint here that won’t watch itself.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: G-Unit on April 12, 2021, 11:36:12 PM
I’m sure Faith or Carly will be only too delighted to discuss it with you, but please do excuse me I have some slow-drying paint here that won’t watch itself.

I don't mind at all if you don't comment on my posts.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 12, 2021, 11:58:34 PM
I don't mind at all if you don't comment on my posts.
Whose input into this discussion would you really value then?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on April 27, 2021, 05:40:59 PM
That is an incredibly inaccurate misstatement surely.  You seem to be asserting that the Policia Judicairia didn't check out witness statements.  Is that your belief?

I have posted an example of the horrid attacks the McCanns have been subjected to over the years.  One accusing them of child abuse while failing miserably to recognise the abuse to which the petition organisers and all sixty two signatories were actually in the process of perpetrating in their haste to berate the parents.

Just something along the lines of the malignant sentiment of your query in the thread topic.

A family has been made aware that there is a high probability that a rapist and paedophile might have been involved in their daughter's disappearance.
As they await the outcome of the investigation into that your thoughts are taken up with casting more slurs at them.

Quite extraordinary and really very sad 😢 very sad indeed.

 You seem to be asserting that the Policia Judicairia didn't check out witness statements.  Is that your belief?



Nothing to do with the statements although they are a lot to be desired - depending which version of events you believe.

Im talking about nothing as ever been checked out it seems by anyone.

1/ the timeline.

2/ a reconstruction.

3/ all the twoing and throwing of people going to apartment that night.

4/ why when the mccs new Maddie was not in the apartment did they let 20 + people enter it.

5/ the mccs said Maddie was abducted and that seemed the end of that with no proof of it happening whatsoever.

Its not set in stone there was an abduction

Im not concerned with the horrid attacks the mcc have been subject too over the years.

They can defend themselves - its Maddie who couldn't... plus I don't believe there version of events.

Your post is full of might high probabilitiess and of course just your opinion ..not proof.

And you think Im sad.









Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on April 27, 2021, 05:46:32 PM
Whose input into this discussion would you really value then?

Does it matter its all opinion anyway VS. no one knows what happened or any further on really.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on April 27, 2021, 06:52:04 PM

 You seem to be asserting that the Policia Judicairia didn't check out witness statements.  Is that your belief?



Nothing to do with the statements although they are a lot to be desired - depending which version of events you believe.

Im talking about nothing as ever been checked out it seems by anyone.

1/ the timeline.

2/ a reconstruction.

3/ all the twoing and throwing of people going to apartment that night.

4/ why when the mccs new Maddie was not in the apartment did they let 20 + people enter it.

5/ the mccs said Maddie was abducted and that seemed the end of that with no proof of it happening whatsoever.

Its not set in stone there was an abduction

Im not concerned with the horrid attacks the mcc have been subject too over the years.

They can defend themselves - its Maddie who couldn't... plus I don't believe there version of events.

Your post is full of might high probabilitiess and of course just your opinion ..not proof.

And you think Im sad.

I don't believe anyone's "version of events".  All witnesses can do is to provide a statement detailing what they experienced ~ what they heard ~ or what they saw.  The police work with that to decide which course of action to follow.  The Policia Judiciaria took no action against the McCanns after studying the evidence.
Doesn't that tell you something; because if it doesn't it most certainly should.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on April 28, 2021, 12:49:45 PM
I don't believe anyone's "version of events".  All witnesses can do is to provide a statement detailing what they experienced ~ what they heard ~ or what they saw.  The police work with that to decide which course of action to follow.  The Policia Judiciaria took no action against the McCanns after studying the evidence.
Doesn't that tell you something; because if it doesn't it most certainly should.

The police work with that to decide which course of action to follow. 

Well it does tell you something...a reconstruction should have been done by at least one of them.

The mcc IMO were not investigated properly

PJ tread too carefully and not treating them as suspects from the beginning.

It seems other Police forces have done exactly the same thing.

This case is not as cut and dried as you seem to make out in your posts.

IMO it seems a absolute shambles with no one agreeing on anything.


Flores was once involved with the Policia Judiciaria — who conducted the initial search — and he said: ‘Maddie died in that apartment, I have no doubt.’

Referring to claims the child was abducted, he said: ‘It was impossible to pass in that window with a child, Maddie died in that house.’

‘The secret is in that group of people and in the parents who are influential people in the British government,’ he added.

Flores is a Portuguese crime expert, researcher and writer, and he shares the beliefs of police chief Goncalo Amaral, Mail Online reports.


Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Lace on April 28, 2021, 01:08:46 PM
The police work with that to decide which course of action to follow. 

Well it does tell you something...a reconstruction should have been done by at least one of them.

The mcc IMO were not investigated properly

PJ tread too carefully and not treating them as suspects from the beginning.

It seems other Police forces have done exactly the same thing.

This case is not as cut and dried as you seem to make out in your posts.

IMO it seems a absolute shambles with no one agreeing on anything.


Flores was once involved with the Policia Judiciaria — who conducted the initial search — and he said: ‘Maddie died in that apartment, I have no doubt.’

Referring to claims the child was abducted, he said: ‘It was impossible to pass in that window with a child, Maddie died in that house.’

‘The secret is in that group of people and in the parents who are influential people in the British government,’ he added.

Flores is a Portuguese crime expert, researcher and writer, and he shares the beliefs of police chief Goncalo Amaral, Mail Online reports.



OMG it was impossible to pass in that window with a child,  Maddie died in that house.  How ridiculous is that.   How about the abductor went through the door instead?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on April 28, 2021, 01:12:17 PM

OMG it was impossible to pass in that window with a child,  Maddie died in that house.  How ridiculous is that.   How about the abductor went through the door instead?

How about there wasn't an abductor... to go anywhere.door or window.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on April 28, 2021, 01:31:07 PM
How about there wasn't an abductor... to go anywhere.door or window.

Could you explain why the Portuguese police are not investigating the McCanns
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 28, 2021, 02:13:24 PM
Could you explain why the Portuguese police are not investigating the McCanns
Tony Blair told them not to and the Portuguese don't realise he's not PM anymore...?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on April 28, 2021, 02:33:38 PM
Could you explain why the Portuguese police are not investigating the McCanns


What, explain to you the man who professes to know everything....... and more it seems.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 28, 2021, 02:47:50 PM

What, explain to you the man who professes to know everything....... and more it seems.
It's actually not possible to know more than everything.  I don't know hardly anything so why not explain it to me?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on April 28, 2021, 02:54:46 PM

What, explain to you the man who professes to know everything....... and more it seems.

As I thought.. You can't explain it.  They have said they are not suspect's and there's no evidence against them... That's why
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on April 28, 2021, 04:02:54 PM
The police work with that to decide which course of action to follow. 

Well it does tell you something...a reconstruction should have been done by at least one of them.

The mcc IMO were not investigated properly

PJ tread too carefully and not treating them as suspects from the beginning.

It seems other Police forces have done exactly the same thing.

This case is not as cut and dried as you seem to make out in your posts.

IMO it seems a absolute shambles with no one agreeing on anything.


Flores was once involved with the Policia Judiciaria — who conducted the initial search — and he said: ‘Maddie died in that apartment, I have no doubt.’

Referring to claims the child was abducted, he said: ‘It was impossible to pass in that window with a child, Maddie died in that house.’

‘The secret is in that group of people and in the parents who are influential people in the British government,’ he added.

Flores is a Portuguese crime expert, researcher and writer, and he shares the beliefs of police chief Goncalo Amaral, Mail Online reports.

What Amaral believes is in no doubt.  He wrote a book about it.  Pity he was better at being an author than he was at being a detective though.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on April 28, 2021, 04:56:46 PM
As I thought.. You can't explain it.  They have said they are not suspect's and there's no evidence against them... That's why

But they are not cleared either
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on April 28, 2021, 04:57:16 PM
What Amaral believes is in no doubt.  He wrote a book about it.  Pity he was better at being an author than he was at being a detective though.

Well he never really got the chance did he....... seems the power that be got rid of him.

Probably would have got further than they are now ...,but we will never know will we.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 28, 2021, 05:18:38 PM
But they are not cleared either
Not cleared of what?  Suspicion?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on April 28, 2021, 05:23:36 PM
Well he never really got the chance did he....... seems the power that be got rid of him.

Probably would have got further than they are now ...,but we will never know will we.

Why do you think that the supposedly all powerful powers that be didn't make him an offer he couldn't refuse?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on April 28, 2021, 05:32:09 PM
Well he never really got the chance did he....... seems the power that be got rid of him.

Probably would have got further than they are now ...,but we will never know will we.

Why have no other Portuguese detectives followed it up. 
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: jassi on April 28, 2021, 05:40:39 PM
Why do you think that the supposedly all powerful powers that be didn't make him an offer he couldn't refuse?

They did. Resign or be dismissed. Political embarrassment. IMO
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on April 28, 2021, 06:09:04 PM
Why have no other Portuguese detectives followed it up.

Why don't you ask them.

Well it will be still a two horse race IMO ..but seems SY are not taking the germans seriously so CB could be out the running..

Read more: German prosecutor believes ‘Madeleine McCann could still be alive’

As of now, Met Police are still treating Madeleine McCann’s disappearance as a missing person case.

[/b]
SY, Still looking for a missing person ..oh and the mcc are still going to be looking it seems.

If well over 12 million has not found one thing the PJ hadnt already found 750.000 is going to be penuts.

I honestly believe the PJ were on the right track.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/madeleine-mccann-parents-latest-news-b1837736.html

Comments being left.

Rosco00001
1 day ago
For years I thought notions that the McCanns killed Madelaine (accidentally or otherwise) couldn't possibly be true and dismissed them out of hand. After all, what sort of parent would do such a thing? Almost certainly not ones which present the way that Kate and Gerry do. But after watching one expert who dared disputing the establishment narrative I ended up consuming everything I possibly could on the subject, perhaps watching 20 hours of expert testimony, and for me the real mystery now is not where is Maddy? Or who killed/abducted her? But why the establishment has gone to such lengths to protect the McCanns who the Portuguese police correctly identified as the prime suspects? What connections tho power, what secrets of more powerful people did they have, for the British mainstream media, the security services, and senior politicians, to go to such lengths to present them as being innocent, when all the evidence points in the other direction?
The case absolutely stinks. There will never be justice for the poor little girl. Sadly, there will be no justice for the parents either. They will be greatly relieved.

Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on April 28, 2021, 06:38:29 PM
Why don't you ask them.

Well it will be still a two horse race IMO ..but seems SY are not taking the germans seriously so CB could be out the running..

Read more: German prosecutor believes ‘Madeleine McCann could still be alive’

As of now, Met Police are still treating Madeleine McCann’s disappearance as a missing person case.

[/b]
SY, Still looking for a missing person ..oh and the mcc are still going to be looking it seems.

If well over 12 million has not found one thing the PJ hadnt already found 750.000 is going to be penuts.

I honestly believe the PJ were on the right track.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/madeleine-mccann-parents-latest-news-b1837736.html

Comments being left.

Rosco00001
1 day ago
For years I thought notions that the McCanns killed Madelaine (accidentally or otherwise) couldn't possibly be true and dismissed them out of hand. After all, what sort of parent would do such a thing? Almost certainly not ones which present the way that Kate and Gerry do. But after watching one expert who dared disputing the establishment narrative I ended up consuming everything I possibly could on the subject, perhaps watching 20 hours of expert testimony, and for me the real mystery now is not where is Maddy? Or who killed/abducted her? But why the establishment has gone to such lengths to protect the McCanns who the Portuguese police correctly identified as the prime suspects? What connections tho power, what secrets of more powerful people did they have, for the British mainstream media, the security services, and senior politicians, to go to such lengths to present them as being innocent, when all the evidence points in the other direction?
The case absolutely stinks. There will never be justice for the poor little girl. Sadly, there will be no justice for the parents either. They will be greatly relieved.

I think you've misunderstood not only the evidence but also the view of the present investigation
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 28, 2021, 06:38:35 PM
Why don't you ask them.

Well it will be still a two horse race IMO ..but seems SY are not taking the germans seriously so CB could be out the running..

Read more: German prosecutor believes ‘Madeleine McCann could still be alive’

As of now, Met Police are still treating Madeleine McCann’s disappearance as a missing person case.

[/b]
SY, Still looking for a missing person ..oh and the mcc are still going to be looking it seems.

If well over 12 million has not found one thing the PJ hadnt already found 750.000 is going to be penuts.

I honestly believe the PJ were on the right track.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/madeleine-mccann-parents-latest-news-b1837736.html

Comments being left.

Rosco00001
1 day ago
For years I thought notions that the McCanns killed Madelaine (accidentally or otherwise) couldn't possibly be true and dismissed them out of hand. After all, what sort of parent would do such a thing? Almost certainly not ones which present the way that Kate and Gerry do. But after watching one expert who dared disputing the establishment narrative I ended up consuming everything I possibly could on the subject, perhaps watching 20 hours of expert testimony, and for me the real mystery now is not where is Maddy? Or who killed/abducted her? But why the establishment has gone to such lengths to protect the McCanns who the Portuguese police correctly identified as the prime suspects? What connections tho power, what secrets of more powerful people did they have, for the British mainstream media, the security services, and senior politicians, to go to such lengths to present them as being innocent, when all the evidence points in the other direction?
The case absolutely stinks. There will never be justice for the poor little girl. Sadly, there will be no justice for the parents either. They will be greatly relieved.
Oh dear that QAnon lot get everywhere.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on April 29, 2021, 01:22:01 AM
They did. Resign or be dismissed. Political embarrassment. IMO
When they were making him the offer he couldn't refuse don't you think it was remiss of them not to remind him of Omerta.

I think these 'forces of darkness' either exist only in Amaral's vivid imagination or they're not really as scary as the legend would have us think they are.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Lace on April 29, 2021, 10:25:46 AM
Why don't you ask them.

Well it will be still a two horse race IMO ..but seems SY are not taking the germans seriously so CB could be out the running..

Read more: German prosecutor believes ‘Madeleine McCann could still be alive’

As of now, Met Police are still treating Madeleine McCann’s disappearance as a missing person case.

[/b]
SY, Still looking for a missing person ..oh and the mcc are still going to be looking it seems.

If well over 12 million has not found one thing the PJ hadnt already found 750.000 is going to be penuts.

I honestly believe the PJ were on the right track.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/madeleine-mccann-parents-latest-news-b1837736.html

Comments being left.

Rosco00001
1 day ago
For years I thought notions that the McCanns killed Madelaine (accidentally or otherwise) couldn't possibly be true and dismissed them out of hand. After all, what sort of parent would do such a thing? Almost certainly not ones which present the way that Kate and Gerry do. But after watching one expert who dared disputing the establishment narrative I ended up consuming everything I possibly could on the subject, perhaps watching 20 hours of expert testimony, and for me the real mystery now is not where is Maddy? Or who killed/abducted her? But why the establishment has gone to such lengths to protect the McCanns who the Portuguese police correctly identified as the prime suspects? What connections tho power, what secrets of more powerful people did they have, for the British mainstream media, the security services, and senior politicians, to go to such lengths to present them as being innocent, when all the evidence points in the other direction?
The case absolutely stinks. There will never be justice for the poor little girl. Sadly, there will be no justice for the parents either. They will be greatly relieved.

Tin hats at the ready!!
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Lace on April 29, 2021, 10:29:16 AM
How about there wasn't an abductor... to go anywhere.door or window.

Ah but there was.   Saying there couldn't have been an abductor because he wouldn't have been able to get through the window with a child is laughable when there was a front door!!
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: G-Unit on April 29, 2021, 11:19:17 AM
Ah but there was.   Saying there couldn't have been an abductor because he wouldn't have been able to get through the window with a child is laughable when there was a front door!!

There was indeed a front door which may have been locked and an unlocked patio door. What there wasn't was any evidence of an intruder. Therefore an abductor is something which people can believe in, but can't prove the existence of.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on April 29, 2021, 11:29:58 AM
Oh dear that QAnon lot get everywhere.

Bit hypo post... aren't we all anon including you vs.

Apart from El ...wich is fair play to her.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on April 29, 2021, 11:30:19 AM
I think you've misunderstood not only the evidence but also the view of the present investigation

Do you mean the German investigation - that seems to be going no where.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on April 29, 2021, 11:33:05 AM
Ah but there was.   Saying there couldn't have been an abductor because he wouldn't have been able to get through the window with a child is laughable when there was a front door!!

Do you mean the front door kmc didn't look out of that led to the car park... during her 10 min search of the apartment

Why an abductor would bother to open that window in the first place ...does not make any sense at all.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on April 29, 2021, 12:03:38 PM
Do you mean the German investigation - that seems to be going no where.

I mean the Portuguese.. British and German Police... None of them investigating the McCanns
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 29, 2021, 01:18:07 PM
Bit hypo post... aren't we all anon including you vs.

Apart from El ...wich is fair play to her.
@)(++(*  Do you even know who or what QAnon refers to?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 29, 2021, 11:17:26 PM
How can the McCanns not be cleared of suspicion and not suspects at the same time?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: G-Unit on April 30, 2021, 12:19:07 AM
How can the McCanns not be cleared of suspicion and not suspects at the same time?

Depends who you think suspects them.

Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 30, 2021, 07:12:58 AM
Depends who you think suspects them.
I don’t think any police departments are treating them as suspects, so if they are not suspects how is it they have not been cleared of suspicion?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on April 30, 2021, 09:10:23 AM
I don’t think any police departments are treating them as suspects, so if they are not suspects how is it they have not been cleared of suspicion?

Was there any suspicion in the first place?  Or did The PJ make it up?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: G-Unit on April 30, 2021, 09:20:20 AM
I don’t think any police departments are treating them as suspects, so if they are not suspects how is it they have not been cleared of suspicion?

It was up to the police to eliminate those closest to the child, because statistically those closest are most likely to have harmed her. The only person who has claimed that was done was Isabel Duarte, and the Supreme Court rejected her arguments.
https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Annulment_request.htm

If the McCanns were not eliminated by the first investigation then any subsequent investigators should explain why they assumed it had. That assumption is why they have not treated the couple as viable suspects imo.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 30, 2021, 09:22:59 AM
It was up to the police to eliminate those closest to the child, because statistically those closest are most likely to have harmed her. The only person who has claimed that was done was Isabel Duarte, and the Supreme Court rejected her arguments.
https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Annulment_request.htm

If the McCanns were not eliminated by the first investigation then any subsequent investigators should explain why they assumed it had. That assumption is why they have not treated the couple as viable suspects imo.
I sometimes wish you could give a straight answer.  I know there's little point in wishing it, but still I do.  The Portuguese re-opened the investigation did they not?  Do you have any evidence that the McCanns are still their main suspects in this case?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: G-Unit on April 30, 2021, 09:27:45 AM
I sometimes wish you could give a straight answer.  I know there's little point in wishing it, but still I do.  The Portuguese re-opened the investigation did they not?  Do you have any evidence that the McCanns are still their main suspects in this case?

I give the answers which, imo, are applicable. I have no evidence of what the Portuguese police are thinking.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on April 30, 2021, 09:35:47 AM

There are an awful lot of assumptions going on.  Assuming that The McCanns were involved.  I personally would prefer to see some Proof, but there isn't any.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: jassi on April 30, 2021, 09:55:06 AM
There are an awful lot of assumptions going on.  Assuming that The McCanns were involved. I personally would prefer to see some Proof, but there isn't any.

I do so agree, but unfortunately, everything about this case is just speculation, right left and centre.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: G-Unit on April 30, 2021, 10:13:12 AM
There are an awful lot of assumptions going on.  Assuming that The McCanns were involved.  I personally would prefer to see some Proof, but there isn't any.

The point being that this case is full of assumptions. Assumptions about statements, timelines, the nature of the crime, the meaning of the archiving dispatch, and the guilt of Christian B.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on April 30, 2021, 10:20:43 AM
The point being that this case is full of assumptions. Assumptions about statements, timelines, the nature of the crime, the meaning of the archiving dispatch, and the guilt of Christian B.

I notice all your examples are anti McCann. What is not an assumption is the McCanns are not suspects in any present investigation
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on April 30, 2021, 10:28:53 AM
I do so agree, but unfortunately, everything about this case is just speculation, right left and centre.

And fourteen years of it.  What would be have done with ourselves?

Looking on the bright side, I have learned the art of Semantics and how to Obfuscate, plus a few big words I'd never even heard of.  Although I can't say my memory for details has improved all that much.  So I am learning how to second guess and to avoid certain things.  But I'm still not good at staying On Topic.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on April 30, 2021, 10:31:23 AM
The point being that this case is full of assumptions. Assumptions about statements, timelines, the nature of the crime, the meaning of the archiving dispatch, and the guilt of Christian B.

I have never said that Brueckner is guilty.  I prefer Innocent until Proven Otherwise.  But not much of that going on for The McCanns.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: G-Unit on April 30, 2021, 10:59:58 AM
I notice all your examples are anti McCann. What is not an assumption is the McCanns are not suspects in any present investigation

In my opinion that is because assumptions have been made about the nature of the crime and the reasons for archiving the first investigation. Those assumptions may be correct, but they are not, imo, based on firm evidence.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on April 30, 2021, 11:35:08 AM
In my opinion that is because assumptions have been made about the nature of the crime and the reasons for archiving the first investigation. Those assumptions may be correct, but they are not, imo, based on firm evidence.

You don't know what evidence they are based on
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 30, 2021, 11:57:59 AM
You don't know what evidence they are based on

The police have released zero abduction evidence in the past 14 years.

With no evidence of evidence being present, it's quite reasonable to assume no evidence exists.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: G-Unit on April 30, 2021, 12:37:33 PM
The police have released zero abduction evidence in the past 14 years.

With no evidence of evidence being present, it's quite reasonable to assume no evidence exists.

A C Rowley demonstrated what Op Grange think;

However she left that apartment, she has been abducted. It is not a 20-year-old who has gone
missing and who has made a decision to start a new life, this is a young girl who is missing and at the
heart of this has been an abduction.
http://findmadeleine.com/pdf/ac-rowley-transcript.pdf

It seems they deduced that as Madeleine wasn't old enough to decide to start a new life she must therefore have been abducted. Is that type of evidence upon which the Metropolitan Police habitually rely, I wonder?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on April 30, 2021, 12:43:56 PM
A C Rowley demonstrated what Op Grange think;

However she left that apartment, she has been abducted. It is not a 20-year-old who has gone
missing and who has made a decision to start a new life, this is a young girl who is missing and at the
heart of this has been an abduction.
http://findmadeleine.com/pdf/ac-rowley-transcript.pdf

It seems they deduced that as Madeleine wasn't old enough to decide to start a new life she must therefore have been abducted. Is that type of evidence upon which the Metropolitan Police habitually rely, I wonder?

That might be how it seems to you.. But not to Mr.
Rowley said more than that
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Lace on April 30, 2021, 12:56:23 PM
Do you mean the front door kmc didn't look out of that led to the car park... during her 10 min search of the apartment

Why an abductor would bother to open that window in the first place ...does not make any sense at all.

No Kate looked out of the window.   The window could have been opened for a few reasons.   Abductor could have come in through the window,   abductor could have opened the window for a means of escape if caught in the apartment,  abductor could have opened the window to pass Madeleine through to an accomplice. 

IMO the abductor was disturbed by Gerry coming back to the apartment,  one of the friends listened outside the children's window and went back to report all was well.   IMO the abductor was watching the friend do his check and decided there wouldn't be another one for thirty minutes,  so he went into the apartment and was disturbed by Gerry coming back.   When Gerry left the apartment he opened the window incase there was another disturbance and he could make an hasty retreat.

Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on April 30, 2021, 01:09:56 PM
No Kate looked out of the window.   The window could have been opened for a few reasons.   Abductor could have come in through the window,   abductor could have opened the window for a means of escape if caught in the apartment,  abductor could have opened the window to pass Madeleine through to an accomplice. 

IMO the abductor was disturbed by Gerry coming back to the apartment,  one of the friends listened outside the children's window and went back to report all was well.   IMO the abductor was watching the friend do his check and decided there wouldn't be another one for thirty minutes,  so he went into the apartment and was disturbed by Gerry coming back.   When Gerry left the apartment he opened the window incase there was another disturbance and he could make an hasty retreat.

Way too logical.  That won't wash.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 30, 2021, 01:11:20 PM
No Kate looked out of the window.   The window could have been opened for a few reasons.   Abductor could have come in through the window,   abductor could have opened the window for a means of escape if caught in the apartment,  abductor could have opened the window to pass Madeleine through to an accomplice. 

IMO the abductor was disturbed by Gerry coming back to the apartment,  one of the friends listened outside the children's window and went back to report all was well.   IMO the abductor was watching the friend do his check and decided there wouldn't be another one for thirty minutes,  so he went into the apartment and was disturbed by Gerry coming back.   When Gerry left the apartment he opened the window incase there was another disturbance and he could make an hasty retreat.

Too many assumptions here imo.

You're assuming Kate looked out of the window, when only she really knows.

You're assuming there was not only an abductor, but also an abductors accomplice.

Worst still, you're assuming the gender of this imaginary abductor.

But other than that, I agree completely.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 30, 2021, 01:12:31 PM
Way too logical.  That won't wash.

Yes very logical, if your idea of logic involves making multiple assumptions based on nothing.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on April 30, 2021, 01:20:41 PM
Yes very logical, if your idea of logic involves making multiple assumptions based on nothing.

You do it all of the time so you would know.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 30, 2021, 01:25:53 PM
You do it all of the time so you would know.

Hilarious.

'It takes one to know one' are you sure you're not 12?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 30, 2021, 01:49:38 PM
I give the answers which, imo, are applicable. I have no evidence of what the Portuguese police are thinking.
So when the Portuguese police say "The McCanns are not suspects - period" you don't consider that to be evidence of what they are thinking?  What exactly do you understand by the word "evidence"?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 30, 2021, 01:51:12 PM
A C Rowley demonstrated what Op Grange think;

However she left that apartment, she has been abducted. It is not a 20-year-old who has gone
missing and who has made a decision to start a new life, this is a young girl who is missing and at the
heart of this has been an abduction.
http://findmadeleine.com/pdf/ac-rowley-transcript.pdf

It seems they deduced that as Madeleine wasn't old enough to decide to start a new life she must therefore have been abducted. Is that type of evidence upon which the Metropolitan Police habitually rely, I wonder?
It seems you are determined to be facetious.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 30, 2021, 01:52:44 PM
A C Rowley demonstrated what Op Grange think;

However she left that apartment, she has been abducted. It is not a 20-year-old who has gone
missing and who has made a decision to start a new life, this is a young girl who is missing and at the
heart of this has been an abduction.
http://findmadeleine.com/pdf/ac-rowley-transcript.pdf

It seems they deduced that as Madeleine wasn't old enough to decide to start a new life she must therefore have been abducted. Is that type of evidence upon which the Metropolitan Police habitually rely, I wonder?

I seem to remember Andy Redwood talking some nonsense riddle about clear opportunity for an abduction & his belief on the evidence that is a criminal act by a stranger, before retiring in defeat.

Last time I looked that Rowley bloke looked a bit old so it's quite safe to assume he'll retire before abduction evidence ever rears it's head, & whatever ever happened to that Nicola Wall woman?  To her credit, at least she kept her mouth shut.

ETA:  I've just found Nicola Wall's only public comment on Grange:

“It was a great privilege to be Head of Operation Grange during the last  three and a half years and I guarantee I will be leaving the operation in the hands of a very experienced colleague”.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: jassi on April 30, 2021, 02:24:23 PM
I seem to remember Andy Redwood talking some nonsense riddle about clear opportunity for an abduction & his belief on the evidence that is a criminal act by a stranger, before retiring in defeat.

Last time I looked that Rowley bloke looked a bit old so it's quite safe to assume he'll retire before abduction evidence ever rears it's head, & whatever ever happened to that Nicola Wall woman?  To her credit, at least she kept her mouth shut.

ETA:  I've just found Nicola Wall's only public comment on Grange:

“It was a great privilege to be Head of Operation Grange during the last  three and a half years and I guarantee I will be leaving the operation in the hands of a very experienced colleague”.


I think he's already long gone. Don't think he had any hands-on involvement anyway.

Seems to me that OG is either the 'short straw' or gentle wind-down for DCI's approaching retirement.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: G-Unit on April 30, 2021, 02:26:37 PM
I seem to remember Andy Redwood talking some nonsense riddle about clear opportunity for an abduction & his belief on the evidence that is a criminal act by a stranger, before retiring in defeat.

Last time I looked that Rowley bloke looked a bit old so it's quite safe to assume he'll retire before abduction evidence ever rears it's head, & whatever ever happened to that Nicola Wall woman?  To her credit, at least she kept her mouth shut.

ETA:  I've just found Nicola Wall's only public comment on Grange:

“It was a great privilege to be Head of Operation Grange during the last  three and a half years and I guarantee I will be leaving the operation in the hands of a very experienced colleague”.


Rowley retired a while back. DCI Mark Cranwell replaced Nicola Wall, but he supervises Op Grange on a part-time basis and is not funded by the Home Office.
https://www.met.police.uk/foi-ai/metropolitan-police/disclosure-2019/november/status-update-operation-grange/

Cranwell reports to Commander Stuart Cundy.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10177250/madeleine-mccann-police-knife-crime/
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: jassi on April 30, 2021, 02:29:00 PM
Rowley retired a while back. DCI Mark Cranwell replaced Nicola Wall, but he supervises Op Grange on a part-time basis and is not funded by the Home Office.
https://www.met.police.uk/foi-ai/metropolitan-police/disclosure-2019/november/status-update-operation-grange/

Cranwell reports to Commander Stuart Cundy.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10177250/madeleine-mccann-police-knife-crime/

Perhaps a reflection on how OG   is progressing.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 30, 2021, 02:32:45 PM
Perhaps a reflection on how OG   is progressing.

You're just being bitter because the investigation of Brueckner shows the police have been making enormous strides......

kind of like the ones clowns wear.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: G-Unit on April 30, 2021, 04:42:10 PM
You're just being bitter because the investigation of Brueckner shows the police have been making enormous strides......

kind of like the ones clowns wear.

They don't seem to be moving much lately. Maybe they fell over their big shoes.
https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/clown-shoes-side-view-gm494895855-40869644
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Lace on April 30, 2021, 05:09:45 PM
Too many assumptions here imo.

You're assuming Kate looked out of the window, when only she really knows.

You're assuming there was not only an abductor, but also an abductors accomplice.

Worst still, you're assuming the gender of this imaginary abductor.

But other than that, I agree completely.

Please note my use of IMO
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 30, 2021, 05:11:28 PM
They don't seem to be moving much lately. Maybe they fell over their big shoes.
https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/clown-shoes-side-view-gm494895855-40869644
If the BKA are clowns what does that make the PJ?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on April 30, 2021, 05:14:02 PM
If the BKA are clowns what does that make the PJ?

Corrupt?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Anthro on April 30, 2021, 05:44:09 PM
They don't seem to be moving much lately. Maybe they fell over their big shoes.
https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/clown-shoes-side-view-gm494895855-40869644
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-german-probe-still-23891137
It seems you too have become a ‘victim’ of Godwin’s Law (?)
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: barrier on April 30, 2021, 06:41:25 PM
There are an awful lot of assumptions going on.  Assuming that The McCanns were involved.  I personally would prefer to see some Proof, but there isn't any.

The same of CB.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on April 30, 2021, 06:43:55 PM
The same of CB.

The McCanns have never even been arrested for Paedophilia or Rape, let alone convicted.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: barrier on April 30, 2021, 06:47:23 PM
The McCanns have never even been arrested for Paedophilia or Rape, let alone convicted.

They're one up on CB he's not even been questioned about their daughters disappearance  being a prime suspect an all, not sure its a badge the McCann's or their apologist's should be shouting too much about
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 30, 2021, 06:53:35 PM
They're one up on CB he's not even been questioned about their daughters disappearance  being a prime suspect an all, not sure its a badge the McCann's or their apologist's should be shouting too much about
do us a favour and sort out your apostrophe useage.  McCanns and Apologists are plural words and don’t need one, nor do any other plurals, thanks.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: barrier on April 30, 2021, 06:54:53 PM
do us a favour and sort out your apostrophe useage.  McCanns and Apologists are plural words and don’t need one, nor do any other plurals, thanks.

When I want your advice on anything I'll ask some one more qualified.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 30, 2021, 06:56:43 PM
When I want your advice on anything I'll ask some one more qualified.
OK carry on making nonsensical posts then, see if I care.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on April 30, 2021, 06:56:59 PM
They're one up on CB he's not even been questioned about their daughters disappearance  being a prime suspect an all, not sure its a badge the McCann's or their apologist's should be shouting too much about

What are you on about?  That doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 30, 2021, 06:59:04 PM
What are you on about?  That doesn't make sense.
I don’t know why people find it so difficult to resist using apostrophes where they aren’t needed.  It’s like a nervous tic.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: barrier on April 30, 2021, 06:59:17 PM
OK carry on making nonsensical posts then, see if I care.


Please don't on my account.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 30, 2021, 07:01:30 PM

Please don't on my account.
Please dont refer to the McCanns as the McCann’s, nor to us apologists as apologist’s - it make’s me cringe, many thank’s for you’re unders’tanding.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: barrier on April 30, 2021, 07:02:12 PM
Please dont refer to the McCanns as the McCann’s, nor to us apologists as apologist’s - it make’s me cringe, many thank’s for you’re under’standing.

If I can continue getting to you then maybe its worth it.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 30, 2021, 07:03:00 PM
If I can continue getting to you then maybe its worth it.
you missed one there, tsk.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on April 30, 2021, 07:04:45 PM
I don’t know why people find it so difficult to resist using apostrophes where they aren’t needed.  It’s like a nervous tic.

Let's not criticise grammatical ignorance.  Best ignored.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 30, 2021, 07:06:49 PM
Let's not criticise grammatical ignorance.  Best ignored.
Sorry, it just exasperates me that grown men and women can’t get to grips with this very simple grammatical rule. 
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on April 30, 2021, 07:16:19 PM
Sorry, it just exasperates me that grown men and women can’t get to grips with this very simple grammatical rule.

As in belonging to you mean?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 30, 2021, 07:17:35 PM
Please dont refer to the McCanns as the McCann’s, nor to us apologists as apologist’s - it make’s me cringe, many thank’s for you’re unders’tanding.

If I can continue getting to you then maybe its worth it.

tw..'s
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 30, 2021, 07:19:07 PM
tw..'s
Don’t be bringing the twin’s into it.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on May 01, 2021, 05:01:35 PM

I have decided to talk a load of old rubbish for the next week.  I am that bored with it all that anything will do.  Providing that I can keep it up for that long, of course.

Starters for 10.  The McCanns done it because they were there.

Starters for 9.  Statistics.  The Parents done it.

Starters for 8.  No one else done it.

Starters for 7.  Statistics have other possibilities, but way too small to count.  So the parents done it.

Starters for 6.  Who else would have made such a fuss when they done it.

Starters for 5.  Who else didn't want Madeleine.

Starters for 4.  How else do you keep this Forum going if The McCanns didn't done it.

Starters for 3.  You are all on your own.  You think of why they done it.  I am exhausted.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: jassi on May 01, 2021, 06:10:34 PM
I have decided to talk a load of old rubbish for the next week.  I am that bored with it all that anything will do.  Providing that I can keep it up for that long, of course.

Starters for 10.  The McCanns done it because they were there.

Starters for 9.  Statistics.  The Parents done it.

Starters for 8.  No one else done it.

Starters for 7.  Statistics have other possibilities, but way too small to count.  So the parents done it.

Starters for 6.  Who else would have made such a fuss when they done it.

Starters for 5.  Who else didn't want Madeleine.

Starters for 4.  How else do you keep this Forum going if The McCanns didn't done it.

Starters for 3.  You are all on your own.  You think of why they done it.  I am exhausted.

Have you been taking a peek at Spammy's notes ?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on May 01, 2021, 07:16:12 PM
Have you been taking a peek at Spammy's notes ?

No.  I am just recovering from the last Full Moon.  It was a bad one.

PS.  Spammy isn't half as dreadful or stupid as he pretends to be.  So I'm afraid that he has lost his edge with me.  I shall view his comments on The McCanns with mirth from now on.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 01, 2021, 07:18:22 PM
No.  I am just recovering from the last Full Moon.  It was a bad one.

PS.  Spammy isn't half as dreadful or stupid as he pretends to be.  So I'm afraid that he has lost his edge with me.  I shall view his comments on The McCanns with mirth from now on.
it’s not possible to take him seriously that’s for sure.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on May 01, 2021, 07:42:10 PM
it’s not possible to take him seriously that’s for sure.

Well, it did somewhat add to the nastiness, as if there wasn't enough of that already.

The nastiness nearly defeats me sometimes.  So laughing at Spammy might help.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on May 02, 2021, 01:13:10 PM
If the BKA are clowns what does that make the PJ?



Well IMO the PJ were never left to get on with the investigation properly.

To many influential people from the UK  were involved at the beginning it seems.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on May 02, 2021, 01:31:34 PM


Well IMO the PJ were never left to get on with the investigation properly.

To many influential people from the UK  were involved at the beginning it seems.
Do you have any evidence that is true or are you just imagining things
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on May 02, 2021, 01:36:34 PM


Well IMO the PJ were never left to get on with the investigation properly.

To many influential people from the UK  were involved at the beginning it seems.

Funny that.

Rebello's team just got on with the job and my opinion is that they were the ones whose hands were tied by the incompetence of Amaral's team.

Didn't I read somewhere he got rid of half of them and replaced them with trusted and competent officers who knew how to operate a filing system and read scientific reports properly.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on May 02, 2021, 01:51:03 PM
Do you have any evidence that is true or are you just imagining things

Why would I imagine things




THE PEOPLE WHO RUSHED OUT TO PRAIA DA LUZ AFTER 3 MAY 2007 AND BY FRIDAY 11 MAY 2007, with dates of arrival

Government and Embassy Officials

Robert Henderson – British Consul for the Algarve – immediate (persuaded Portuguese Police to allow the McCanns to wash clothes before seizing them)

John Buck – British Ambassador to Portugal (Lisbon), arrived immediately

Angela Morado – British Proconsul, arrived immediately

Liz Dow, British Consul from the Embassy in Lisbon, arrived immediately

Andy Bowes, British Embassy Press Officer, arrived immediately

Sheree Dodd, Foreign and Commonwealth Office

Other staff from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office

British Police Officers

Glen Power, British Police Liaison Officer for Portugal, arrived 5 May

An ‘Analyst’ (unnamed) from the National Policing Improvements Agency, arrived 4 May

Detective Chief Superintendent Bob Small, Leicestershire Police (4 May)

Two other police ‘family liaison’ officers from Leicestershire Police (4 May)

Government security and secret service personnel

Staff from MI5 (unnamed)

Staff from Child Exploitation and Online Protection Service (unnamed – Kate McCann in her book describes them As ‘Forensic Psychologists’), arrived 4 May

More staff from CEOP, the ‘Director of the Forensic Psychology Unit’ AND a CEOP ‘social worker’ (arrived 6 May)

Staff from Special Branch (unnamed)

‘Criminal profilers’ (unnamed - attached to unnamed government security departments)

Government-funded private security firms

Kenneth Farrow from Control Risks Group

Michael Keenan from Control Risks Group

Staff from government-supported private crisis psychology group

Alan Pike, Head of Yorkshire-based Centre for Crisis Psychology (CCP) (arrived 4 May)

Martin Alderton, Colleague of Alan Pike from CCP (arrived 5 May)

Public Relations Consultants

Michael Frolich, Head of Resonate, subsidiary of international PR company Bell Pottinger (already there by Monday 30 April)

Tricia Moon, Deputy Director of Resonate, (already there by Monday 30 April)

Alex Woolfall, Head of Risk for international PR company Bell Pottinger, arrived 4 May (helped to edit Gerry McCann’s photos before putting them on a disc for the PJ)

Lawyers

Staff from the recently-formed International Family Law Group (IFLG):

Michael Nicholls, barrister, arrived 11 May

Accompanied by a ‘paralegal’ from Leicestershire, arrived 11 May

There are references to other government lawyers having arrived

Top staff from Mark Warner (company that organised the holiday)

David Hopkins, Managing Director of Mark Warner

One of his senior colleagues

Interpreters

Robert Murat became the initial main interpreter for the Portuguese Police on 4 May. He had already flown out from England on 1 May. He was recommended by British Consul Robert Henderson

Religious Organisations

Rev. Haynes and Susan Hubbard mysteriously arrived in Praia da Luz from Canada on Sunday 6 May, to take up an appointment as the Anglican Minister in Praia da Luz. The Hubbards rapidly became very close friends of the McCanns

Others

‘Hugh’ – Kate in her book says he would only identify himself as ‘Hugh’, he was brought in by Control Risks Group and said he was ‘a former intelligence officer, now a kidnap negotiator and counsellor’. He attended meeting with the lawyers from IFLG

OTHER APPOINTMENTS

Clarence Mitchell, Head of the government’s Media Monitoring Unit: According to the reply to a Freedom of Information request, he was appointed on Sunday 6 May to head up the government’s PR support for the McCanns, but he did not travel to Portugal until 22 May 2007

The government set up a very high-powered liaison committee on Tuesday 8 May under the Chairmanship of Matt Baggott, Leicestershire Police Chief Constable. It consisted of representatives from a wide variety of government departments and agencies. The government has refused to answer FOI Act questions about who those agencies were.

Government Ministers Gordon Brown (Chancellor of the Exchequer) and Margaret Beckett (Foreign Secretary) spoke to Gerry McCann in the first week. Tony Blair, Prime Minister, did so later.


Literally hundreds of international journalists were also there in that first week."
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on May 02, 2021, 01:55:23 PM

They didn't want anyone else to fall down The Police Station Stairs?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on May 02, 2021, 02:10:37 PM
They didn't want anyone else to fall down The Police Station Stairs?


What with the world watching and hundreds of media camped outside.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on May 02, 2021, 02:18:27 PM
Why would I imagine things




THE PEOPLE WHO RUSHED OUT TO PRAIA DA LUZ AFTER 3 MAY 2007 AND BY FRIDAY 11 MAY 2007, with dates of arrival

Government and Embassy Officials

Robert Henderson – British Consul for the Algarve – immediate (persuaded Portuguese Police to allow the McCanns to wash clothes before seizing them)

John Buck – British Ambassador to Portugal (Lisbon), arrived immediately

Angela Morado – British Proconsul, arrived immediately

Liz Dow, British Consul from the Embassy in Lisbon, arrived immediately

Andy Bowes, British Embassy Press Officer, arrived immediately

Sheree Dodd, Foreign and Commonwealth Office

Other staff from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office

British Police Officers

Glen Power, British Police Liaison Officer for Portugal, arrived 5 May

An ‘Analyst’ (unnamed) from the National Policing Improvements Agency, arrived 4 May

Detective Chief Superintendent Bob Small, Leicestershire Police (4 May)

Two other police ‘family liaison’ officers from Leicestershire Police (4 May)

Government security and secret service personnel

Staff from MI5 (unnamed)

Staff from Child Exploitation and Online Protection Service (unnamed – Kate McCann in her book describes them As ‘Forensic Psychologists’), arrived 4 May

More staff from CEOP, the ‘Director of the Forensic Psychology Unit’ AND a CEOP ‘social worker’ (arrived 6 May)

Staff from Special Branch (unnamed)

‘Criminal profilers’ (unnamed - attached to unnamed government security departments)

Government-funded private security firms

Kenneth Farrow from Control Risks Group

Michael Keenan from Control Risks Group

Staff from government-supported private crisis psychology group

Alan Pike, Head of Yorkshire-based Centre for Crisis Psychology (CCP) (arrived 4 May)

Martin Alderton, Colleague of Alan Pike from CCP (arrived 5 May)

Public Relations Consultants

Michael Frolich, Head of Resonate, subsidiary of international PR company Bell Pottinger (already there by Monday 30 April)

Tricia Moon, Deputy Director of Resonate, (already there by Monday 30 April)

Alex Woolfall, Head of Risk for international PR company Bell Pottinger, arrived 4 May (helped to edit Gerry McCann’s photos before putting them on a disc for the PJ)

Lawyers

Staff from the recently-formed International Family Law Group (IFLG):

Michael Nicholls, barrister, arrived 11 May

Accompanied by a ‘paralegal’ from Leicestershire, arrived 11 May

There are references to other government lawyers having arrived

Top staff from Mark Warner (company that organised the holiday)

David Hopkins, Managing Director of Mark Warner

One of his senior colleagues

Interpreters

Robert Murat became the initial main interpreter for the Portuguese Police on 4 May. He had already flown out from England on 1 May. He was recommended by British Consul Robert Henderson

Religious Organisations

Rev. Haynes and Susan Hubbard mysteriously arrived in Praia da Luz from Canada on Sunday 6 May, to take up an appointment as the Anglican Minister in Praia da Luz. The Hubbards rapidly became very close friends of the McCanns

Others

‘Hugh’ – Kate in her book says he would only identify himself as ‘Hugh’, he was brought in by Control Risks Group and said he was ‘a former intelligence officer, now a kidnap negotiator and counsellor’. He attended meeting with the lawyers from IFLG

OTHER APPOINTMENTS

Clarence Mitchell, Head of the government’s Media Monitoring Unit: According to the reply to a Freedom of Information request, he was appointed on Sunday 6 May to head up the government’s PR support for the McCanns, but he did not travel to Portugal until 22 May 2007

The government set up a very high-powered liaison committee on Tuesday 8 May under the Chairmanship of Matt Baggott, Leicestershire Police Chief Constable. It consisted of representatives from a wide variety of government departments and agencies. The government has refused to answer FOI Act questions about who those agencies were.

Government Ministers Gordon Brown (Chancellor of the Exchequer) and Margaret Beckett (Foreign Secretary) spoke to Gerry McCann in the first week. Tony Blair, Prime Minister, did so later.


Literally hundreds of international journalists were also there in that first week."

What's the evidence they intrtferef with the investigation and stopped the PJ looking at the McCanns... I think you are imagining things
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on May 02, 2021, 02:22:38 PM

What with the world watching and hundreds of media camped outside.

Stop it before it starts I say.  The British Government did nothing for Michael Cooke. And The Portuguese Government did nothing for Leonor Cipriano.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on May 02, 2021, 02:29:25 PM
What's the evidence they intrtferef with the investigation and stopped the PJ looking at the McCanns... I think you are imagining things

What's the evidence they interfered with the investigation

More whats the evidence to say they didnt, why were so many all there within a few of days.

The expense of it alone does not justify it when Maddie could have been found at anytime.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 02, 2021, 02:37:47 PM


Well IMO the PJ were never left to get on with the investigation properly.

To many influential people from the UK  were involved at the beginning it seems.
Poor PJ, so weak and feeble.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on May 02, 2021, 02:39:39 PM

What with the world watching and hundreds of media camped outside.

Why not?
Doesn't Amaral believe that "with the world watching and hundreds of media camped outside" the McCanns shifted Madeleine's remains from pillar to post throughout Portugal - taking in a little day trip to Spain then getting back in time to take her into the church in time to be transferred with the unknown lady to a crematorium.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 02, 2021, 02:43:11 PM
Why not?
Doesn't Amaral believe that "with the world watching and hundreds of media camped outside" the McCanns shifted Madeleine's remains from pillar to post throughout Portugal - taking in a little day trip to Spain then getting back in time to take her into the church in time to be transferred with the unknown lady to a crematorium.
Ah but, the World’s Media was protecting the McCanns you see whilst simultaneously making every effort to hamper the police investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance, on order of the High Ups. 
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on May 02, 2021, 02:44:30 PM
Poor PJ, so weak and feeble.
Not to mention the implication of the ineptitude and lack of sovereignty of the Portuguese Government unable to control what goes on in their own backyard.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 02, 2021, 02:46:37 PM
Not to mention the implication of the ineptitude and lack of sovereignty of the Portuguese Government unable to control what goes on in their own backyard.
London say “jump”, Lisbon say “how high?” - the UK pwns Portugual basically.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on May 02, 2021, 02:48:34 PM
Ah but, the World’s Media was protecting the McCanns you see whilst simultaneously making every effort to hamper the police investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance, on order of the High Ups.

I thought they were on a mission to destroy Amaral's "dignity" and impugn his "honour" too ~ if they could find any.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on May 02, 2021, 03:09:32 PM
I thought they were on a mission to destroy Amaral's "dignity" and impugn his "honour" too ~ if they could find any.

Amaral had already done that himself.  And that's a Fact.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on May 02, 2021, 03:16:54 PM
Poor PJ, so weak and feeble.

Is there any wonder - we all know what happens if you criticize the UK police were PJ were concerned.

Yes they were took off the case.

Every conclusion they came to seems to have been ignored - yet its still no further on today.

PJ believe Maddie is dead .... BKH believe maddie is dead.

Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on May 02, 2021, 03:22:11 PM
Why not?
Doesn't Amaral believe that "with the world watching and hundreds of media camped outside" the McCanns shifted Madeleine's remains from pillar to post throughout Portugal - taking in a little day trip to Spain then getting back in time to take her into the church in time to be transferred with the unknown lady to a crematorium.

Aww come on B.

There version of events were never tested,

No recon or time line checked out.

No proof of anyone being in that apartment except the mcs....oh and the 20+ they let in knowing Maddie was not there.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 02, 2021, 03:22:56 PM
Is there any wonder - we all know what happens if you criticize the UK police were PJ were concerned.

Yes they were took off the case.

Every conclusion they came to seems to have been ignored - yet its still no further on today.

PJ believe Maddie is dead .... BKH believe maddie is dead.
Amaral was taken off the case for breaking judicial secrecy and slagging off the British, not very sensible, not very diplomatic.  It didn’t stop his successor from continuing quietly with the investigation did it? 
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on May 02, 2021, 03:49:35 PM
Amaral was taken off the case for breaking judicial secrecy and slagging off the British, not very sensible, not very diplomatic.  It didn’t stop his successor from continuing quietly with the investigation did it?

Is there any wonder they failed when it seems to me they were not allowed to investigate how they wanted looking at other possibilities. 

Not just the abduction as the mccs claimed.- especially when there was nothing to back abduction up.

It shows they were interfering imo or else why else would he feel a need to slag [as u call it] the UK police in the first place.




Yesterday, in an interview with the respected Diário de Notícias, Mr Amaral accused British detectives of only investigating those leads that Madeleine's parents, Gerry and Kate McCann, wanted following up. "[The British police] have only investigated tips and information developed and worked on for the McCanns, forgetting that the couple are suspects in the death of their daughter Madeleine."
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on May 02, 2021, 04:03:37 PM
Is there any wonder they failed when it seems to me they were not allowed to investigate how they wanted looking at other possibilities. 

Not just the abduction as the mccs claimed.- especially when there was nothing to back abduction up.

It shows they were interfering imo or else why else would he feel a need to slag [as u call it] the UK police in the first place.




Yesterday, in an interview with the respected Diário de Notícias, Mr Amaral accused British detectives of only investigating those leads that Madeleine's parents, Gerry and Kate McCann, wanted following up. "[The British police] have only investigated tips and information developed and worked on for the McCanns, forgetting that the couple are suspects in the death of their daughter Madeleine."

On what premise did Amaral come to this conclusion?  Or was it just his opinion?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on May 02, 2021, 04:53:15 PM
Is there any wonder - we all know what happens if you criticize the UK police were PJ were concerned.

Yes they were took off the case.

Every conclusion they came to seems to have been ignored - yet its still no further on today.

PJ believe Maddie is dead .... BKH believe maddie is dead.

What 'conclusions' were those?

The deadly poison that Calpol is or the body fluids swishing around in the boot of the hired Renault?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on May 02, 2021, 04:57:15 PM
Aww come on B.

There version of events were never tested,

No recon or time line checked out.

No proof of anyone being in that apartment except the mcs....oh and the 20+ they let in knowing Maddie was not there.

Why did no-one think to arrest them then?  Was it because the PJ under Rebello found not a single solitary shred of any evidence whatsoever to justify even suspecting them let alone arresting and charging them?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on May 02, 2021, 05:02:44 PM
Amaral was taken off the case for breaking judicial secrecy and slagging off the British, not very sensible, not very diplomatic.  It didn’t stop his successor from continuing quietly with the investigation did it?

If memory serves me well Amaral had a flakey at the temerity of evidence being forwarded from Britain that it was claimed in an email that an Ocean Club employee was involved in Madeleine's disappearance.

Why did he become tired and emotional about that?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on May 02, 2021, 05:03:29 PM
Why did no-one think to arrest them then?  Was it because the PJ under Rebello found not a single solitary shred of any evidence whatsoever to justify even suspecting them let alone arresting and charging them?

One of them got it wrong.  Was it Amaral or was it Rebello?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 02, 2021, 05:05:54 PM
Is there any wonder they failed when it seems to me they were not allowed to investigate how they wanted looking at other possibilities. 

Not just the abduction as the mccs claimed.- especially when there was nothing to back abduction up.

It shows they were interfering imo or else why else would he feel a need to slag [as u call it] the UK police in the first place.



Yesterday, in an interview with the respected Diário de Notícias, Mr Amaral accused British detectives of only investigating those leads that Madeleine's parents, Gerry and Kate McCann, wanted following up. "[The British police] have only investigated tips and information developed and worked on for the McCanns, forgetting that the couple are suspects in the death of their daughter Madeleine."

Sorry,, but who forbade the Portuguese to investigate how they wanted to and please provide a cite, thanks
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on May 02, 2021, 05:07:11 PM
Is there any wonder they failed when it seems to me they were not allowed to investigate how they wanted looking at other possibilities. 

Not just the abduction as the mccs claimed.- especially when there was nothing to back abduction up.

It shows they were interfering imo or else why else would he feel a need to slag [as u call it] the UK police in the first place.




Yesterday, in an interview with the respected Diário de Notícias, Mr Amaral accused British detectives of only investigating those leads that Madeleine's parents, Gerry and Kate McCann, wanted following up. "[The British police] have only investigated tips and information developed and worked on for the McCanns, forgetting that the couple are suspects in the death of their daughter Madeleine."

WOW ✨  I do believe that is exactly the quote that cost him his job!

Well spotted K
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on May 02, 2021, 06:23:33 PM
Why did no-one think to arrest them then?  Was it because the PJ under Rebello found not a single solitary shred of any evidence whatsoever to justify even suspecting them let alone arresting and charging them?

You would have thought they would have been all been interviewed separately at least.

But for some reason it seems they were all treat with kid gloves. imo there must be a reason for that.


The Strange Case of Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and the McCanns


Interesting really.
This again is absolutely not the norm. On a daily basis more British citizens have contact with foreign authorities than the total staff of the FCO. It would be simply impossible to give that level of support to everybody. Plus, against jingoistic presumption, a great many Brits who have contact with foreign police are actually criminals.

The British Ambassador in Portugal, John Buck, had been my direct boss in the FCO. he was Deputy Head of Southern European Department when I was Head of Cyprus Section. He and his staff were concerned by contradictions in the McCann’s story. The Embassy warned, in writing, that being perceived as too close to the McCanns might not prove wise. They demanded the instruction from London be reconfirmed. It was.

I know of people’s misgivings because I was told directly. But material was also leaked to a Belgian newspaper confirming what I have said. It was published by the Express, but like so much other material which is not supportive of the McCanns, it got taken down. Fortunately that last link preserved it. It also shows that the FCO continues to refuse Freedom of Information requests for the material on the interesting grounds that it might damage relations with Portugal.

For the avoidance of doubt, I do not believe there was a high level paedophile ring involved. I make no such argument. Nor do I claim to know what happened to Madeleine McCann. But I do believe that the McCanns were less than exemplary parents. I believe that New Labour’s No.10 saw, in typical Blair fashion, a highly photogenic tragedy which there might be popularity in appearing to work on.

And I believe there is a genuine danger that the high profile support from the top of the British government might have put some psychological pressure on the Portuguese investigators and prosecuting officers in their determinations.

Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on May 02, 2021, 06:37:53 PM
You would have thought they would have been all been interviewed separately at least.

But for some reason it seems they were all treat with kid gloves. imo there must be a reason for that.


The Strange Case of Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and the McCanns


Interesting really.
This again is absolutely not the norm. On a daily basis more British citizens have contact with foreign authorities than the total staff of the FCO. It would be simply impossible to give that level of support to everybody. Plus, against jingoistic presumption, a great many Brits who have contact with foreign police are actually criminals.

The British Ambassador in Portugal, John Buck, had been my direct boss in the FCO. he was Deputy Head of Southern European Department when I was Head of Cyprus Section. He and his staff were concerned by contradictions in the McCann’s story. The Embassy warned, in writing, that being perceived as too close to the McCanns might not prove wise. They demanded the instruction from London be reconfirmed. It was.

I know of people’s misgivings because I was told directly. But material was also leaked to a Belgian newspaper confirming what I have said. It was published by the Express, but like so much other material which is not supportive of the McCanns, it got taken down. Fortunately that last link preserved it. It also shows that the FCO continues to refuse Freedom of Information requests for the material on the interesting grounds that it might damage relations with Portugal.

For the avoidance of doubt, I do not believe there was a high level paedophile ring involved. I make no such argument. Nor do I claim to know what happened to Madeleine McCann. But I do believe that the McCanns were less than exemplary parents. I believe that New Labour’s No.10 saw, in typical Blair fashion, a highly photogenic tragedy which there might be popularity in appearing to work on.

And I believe there is a genuine danger that the high profile support from the top of the British government might have put some psychological pressure on the Portuguese investigators and prosecuting officers in their determinations.



Have you any conception of how mind bogglingly boring this 2007 fixation your posts portray; how on earth have you failed to notice that the world has moved on to concerns of 2021 and the probable break through of Madeleine's case with a really viable suspect in the frame.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 02, 2021, 06:52:01 PM
You would have thought they would have been all been interviewed separately at least.

But for some reason it seems they were all treat with kid gloves. imo there must be a reason for that.


The Strange Case of Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and the McCanns


Interesting really.
This again is absolutely not the norm. On a daily basis more British citizens have contact with foreign authorities than the total staff of the FCO. It would be simply impossible to give that level of support to everybody. Plus, against jingoistic presumption, a great many Brits who have contact with foreign police are actually criminals.

The British Ambassador in Portugal, John Buck, had been my direct boss in the FCO. he was Deputy Head of Southern European Department when I was Head of Cyprus Section. He and his staff were concerned by contradictions in the McCann’s story. The Embassy warned, in writing, that being perceived as too close to the McCanns might not prove wise. They demanded the instruction from London be reconfirmed. It was.

I know of people’s misgivings because I was told directly. But material was also leaked to a Belgian newspaper confirming what I have said. It was published by the Express, but like so much other material which is not supportive of the McCanns, it got taken down. Fortunately that last link preserved it. It also shows that the FCO continues to refuse Freedom of Information requests for the material on the interesting grounds that it might damage relations with Portugal.

For the avoidance of doubt, I do not believe there was a high level paedophile ring involved. I make no such argument. Nor do I claim to know what happened to Madeleine McCann. But I do believe that the McCanns were less than exemplary parents. I believe that New Labour’s No.10 saw, in typical Blair fashion, a highly photogenic tragedy which there might be popularity in appearing to work on.

And I believe there is a genuine danger that the high profile support from the top of the British government might have put some psychological pressure on the Portuguese investigators and prosecuting officers in their determinations.


who wrote that?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on May 02, 2021, 07:05:25 PM
who wrote that?

My guess would be Craig Murray.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 02, 2021, 08:31:17 PM
My guess would be Craig Murray.
who’s he?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on May 03, 2021, 01:42:41 AM
who’s he?
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/04/the-strange-case-of-gordon-brown-and-the-mccanns/
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on May 03, 2021, 06:57:22 AM
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/04/the-strange-case-of-gordon-brown-and-the-mccanns/


Quote from Craig Murray.


"Embassy staff were perturbed to be ordered that British authorities were to be present at every contact between the McCanns and Portuguese police."

Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on May 03, 2021, 04:59:02 PM
WOW ✨  I do believe that is exactly the quote that cost him his job!

Well spotted K


He was a marked man it seems the first foot he put wrong he was gone - makes you wonder why.

Mind you the mccs it seems was the first ones desperate to discredit him with there undesirable detectives.

Detectives Hired by the McCanns want to Frame Gonçalo Amara

Not to mention the mcs obsessed I believe drive to ruin GA.





Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on May 03, 2021, 05:00:58 PM
Have you any conception of how mind bogglingly boring this 2007 fixation your posts portray; how on earth have you failed to notice that the world has moved on to concerns of 2021 and the probable break through of Madeleine's case with a really viable suspect in the frame.

Maybe the babes in the wood case might educate you further that it doesn't matter how cold the case is

It can go back to the original suspect 32 years later. was guilty of the crime

https://www.crimeandinvestigation.co.uk/article/babes-in-the-woods-and-the-cold-cases-solved-decades-later

I'm surprised your posts are  naive enough  to think just because the years roll on the original suspect should be ruled out because of lack of evidence.

Seems to me as long as it does not involve the mccs you accept anything anyone puts on the table...even though there is nothing credable to back it up.

Your viable suspect in the frame.... is nothing more than a person of interest [how many has there been now lost count].

As for mind boggling boring posts you should look at your own...I rarely read them unless they are directed at me.

Sorry about that but imo if a senior mod can drop there decorum B..... so can I 

Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on May 03, 2021, 05:58:29 PM
Maybe the babes in the wood case might educate you further that it doesn't matter how cold the case is

It can go back to the original suspect 32 years later. was guilty of the crime

https://www.crimeandinvestigation.co.uk/article/babes-in-the-woods-and-the-cold-cases-solved-decades-later

I'm surprised your posts are  naive enough  to think just because the years roll on the original suspect should be ruled out because of lack of evidence.

Seems to me as long as it does not involve the mccs you accept anything anyone puts on the table...even though there is nothing credable to back it up.

Your viable suspect in the frame.... is nothing more than a person of interest [how many has there been now lost count].

As for mind boggling boring posts you should look at your own...I rarely read them unless they are directed at me.

Sorry about that but imo if a senior mod can drop there decorum B..... so can I

Brueckner ceased being a "person of interest" when he was designated the prime suspect quite some time ago.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: jassi on May 03, 2021, 06:01:20 PM
Maybe the babes in the wood case might educate you further that it doesn't matter how cold the case is

It can go back to the original suspect 32 years later. was guilty of the crime

https://www.crimeandinvestigation.co.uk/article/babes-in-the-woods-and-the-cold-cases-solved-decades-later

I'm surprised your posts are  naive enough  to think just because the years roll on the original suspect should be ruled out because of lack of evidence.

Seems to me as long as it does not involve the mccs you accept anything anyone puts on the table...even though there is nothing credable to back it up.

Your viable suspect in the frame.... is nothing more than a person of interest [how many has there been now lost count].

As for mind boggling boring posts you should look at your own...I rarely read them unless they are directed at me.

Sorry about that but imo if a senior mod can drop there decorum B..... so can I

A wise decision - IMO   8((()*/
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Carana on May 03, 2021, 06:37:59 PM
My guess would be Craig Murray.

It is.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/04/the-strange-case-of-gordon-brown-and-the-mccanns/

"A Belgian newspaper..." lol
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on May 11, 2021, 04:14:56 PM
It is.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/04/the-strange-case-of-gordon-brown-and-the-mccanns/

"A Belgian newspaper..." lol

I think he has overstepped the mark as far as Scottish judiciary are concerned ~

Former UK ambassador jailed for eight months over ‘abhorrent’ blogs about Alex Salmond trial

A blogger and former British diplomat has been sentenced to eight months in jail for “abhorrent” contempt of court over his blog coverage of the Alex Salmond trial.

Craig Murray watched two days of Mr Salmond’s trial last March from the public gallery of Edinburgh’s High Court before writing about it on his website.

Judges subsequently ruled that 62-year-old Murray was in contempt of court over blog material capable of identifying four women who had made complaints about Mr Salmond, acquitted of all charges.

Sentencing the former UK ambassador to Uzbekistan, Lady Dorrian said Murray knew there were court orders giving the women anonymity and he was “relishing” the potential disclosure of their identities.

Lord Justice Clerk Lady Dorrian said revealing complainers’ identities was “abhorrent,” explaining that Murray had deliberately risked jigsaw identification – information which allows someone to be identified when pieced together.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/former-uk-ambassador-jailed-for-eight-months-over-abhorrent-blogs-about-alex-salmond-trial/ar-BB1gBmKh?ocid=msedgntp
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 11, 2021, 04:41:52 PM
I think he has overstepped the mark as far as Scottish judiciary are concerned ~

Former UK ambassador jailed for eight months over ‘abhorrent’ blogs about Alex Salmond trial

A blogger and former British diplomat has been sentenced to eight months in jail for “abhorrent” contempt of court over his blog coverage of the Alex Salmond trial.

Craig Murray watched two days of Mr Salmond’s trial last March from the public gallery of Edinburgh’s High Court before writing about it on his website.

Judges subsequently ruled that 62-year-old Murray was in contempt of court over blog material capable of identifying four women who had made complaints about Mr Salmond, acquitted of all charges.

Sentencing the former UK ambassador to Uzbekistan, Lady Dorrian said Murray knew there were court orders giving the women anonymity and he was “relishing” the potential disclosure of their identities.

Lord Justice Clerk Lady Dorrian said revealing complainers’ identities was “abhorrent,” explaining that Murray had deliberately risked jigsaw identification – information which allows someone to be identified when pieced together.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/former-uk-ambassador-jailed-for-eight-months-over-abhorrent-blogs-about-alex-salmond-trial/ar-BB1gBmKh?ocid=msedgntp
NPOW
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on May 11, 2021, 04:58:12 PM

He was a marked man it seems the first foot he put wrong he was gone - makes you wonder why.

Mind you the mccs it seems was the first ones desperate to discredit him with there undesirable detectives.

Detectives Hired by the McCanns want to Frame Gonçalo Amara

Not to mention the mcs obsessed I believe drive to ruin GA.

Detectives Hired by the McCanns want to Frame Gonçalo Amara


i think thats something made up by the amaral fan club...unless you have any evidence its true
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on May 11, 2021, 05:36:57 PM

Detectives Hired by the McCanns want to Frame Gonçalo Amara


i think thats something made up by the amaral fan club...unless you have any evidence its true

I agree with that.  It is a quote which is often made but it is one for which provenance is never provided for the simple reason there is none.
The McCann detectives' remit from first to last was searching for Madeleine.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: John on May 11, 2021, 06:03:54 PM
I agree with that.  It is a quote which is often made but it is one for which provenance is never provided for the simple reason there is none.
The McCann detectives' remit from first to last was searching for Madeleine.

We don't know that for definite. Remember the detectives lawyer pal Correia did boast "the target has been hit" after Amaral was found guilty in the Cipriano assault case.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on May 11, 2021, 06:26:18 PM
We don't know that for definite. Remember the detectives lawyer pal Correia did boast "the target has been hit" after Amaral was found guilty in the Cipriano assault case.

The Cipriano case was nothing to do with the McCanns. 
There was no love lost between the lawyer and Goncalo Amaral.  Long history there.  Not least of which is the fact that Amaral really tried to have the lawyer sectioned 😮

Snip
Gonçalo Amaral suggested yesterday, in statements to 24horas, that Marcos Aragão Correia, lawyer for Leonor Cipriano, suffers from a psychiatric illness. This is another episode of verbal war between the ex-inspector of police in Portimão and the lawyer.

"Friends of mine who are connected to medicine, with whom I have spoken, tell me that Aragão Correia is in need of being compulsorily admitted. I think that says it all," said Gonçalo Amaral. "For me, it is not as a person, but only as a lawyer," said the former inspector.

The former inspector of the PJ is to be judged in a case where Leonor Cipriano, mother of Joana, guarantees to have been tortured on the premises of the PJ in order to admit the death of her daughter and the place where the corpse was hidden. In this case, Amaral is charged with failing to denounce. However, Marcos Aragão Correia wants to prove the veracity of the thesis of torture.

"Mr Aragão Correia has a goal, and that is the demand to be the leading character in the limelight. But he also knows that he follows the Order of Lawyers [Bar Association]. I will deal with the case by that establishment, I will deal with the case in court and, I stress, if necessary with a compulsory internment, and that, it seems, is what that man requires," concluded Gonçalo Amaral.

https://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.com/2009/02/goncalo-amaral-aragao-correia-needs-to.html
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: John on May 12, 2021, 04:01:29 PM
The Cipriano case was nothing to do with the McCanns. 
There was no love lost between the lawyer and Goncalo Amaral.  Long history there.  Not least of which is the fact that Amaral really tried to have the lawyer sectioned 😮

Snip
Gonçalo Amaral suggested yesterday, in statements to 24horas, that Marcos Aragão Correia, lawyer for Leonor Cipriano, suffers from a psychiatric illness. This is another episode of verbal war between the ex-inspector of police in Portimão and the lawyer.

"Friends of mine who are connected to medicine, with whom I have spoken, tell me that Aragão Correia is in need of being compulsorily admitted. I think that says it all," said Gonçalo Amaral. "For me, it is not as a person, but only as a lawyer," said the former inspector.

The former inspector of the PJ is to be judged in a case where Leonor Cipriano, mother of Joana, guarantees to have been tortured on the premises of the PJ in order to admit the death of her daughter and the place where the corpse was hidden. In this case, Amaral is charged with failing to denounce. However, Marcos Aragão Correia wants to prove the veracity of the thesis of torture.

"Mr Aragão Correia has a goal, and that is the demand to be the leading character in the limelight. But he also knows that he follows the Order of Lawyers [Bar Association]. I will deal with the case by that establishment, I will deal with the case in court and, I stress, if necessary with a compulsory internment, and that, it seems, is what that man requires," concluded Gonçalo Amaral.

https://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.com/2009/02/goncalo-amaral-aragao-correia-needs-to.html

Correia was being paid by the McCann detectives. Work the rest out for yourself.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on May 12, 2021, 04:55:11 PM
Correia was being paid by the McCann detectives. Work the rest out for yourself.

Joana Morais has posted as much but interestingly Enid O'Dowd seems to have missed it in her audits.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: G-Unit on May 12, 2021, 07:43:25 PM
Joana Morais has posted as much but interestingly Enid O'Dowd seems to have missed it in her audits.

Did Enid O'Dowd audit the accounts of the detectives hired by the McCanns?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on May 13, 2021, 12:06:42 PM
Joana Morais has posted as much but interestingly Enid O'Dowd seems to have missed it in her audits.


No smoke without fire imo.

I do believe it was obvious G.A. was a thorn in the mccs side.

Why have this hatred for G.A. when the so called abductor was forgiven ...it seems.


Detectives Hired by the McCanns want to Frame Gonçalo Amaral




https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/02/detectives-hired-by-mccanns-want-to.html


Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on May 13, 2021, 12:44:02 PM

No smoke without fire imo.

I do believe it was obvious G.A. was a thorn in the mccs side.

Why have this hatred for G.A. when the so called abductor was forgiven ...it seems.


Detectives Hired by the McCanns want to Frame Gonçalo Amaral




https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/02/detectives-hired-by-mccanns-want-to.html

From your link...

Paulo Pereira Cristovão, a former PJ inspector and one of the 5 arguidos of Faro accuses Marcos Aragão Correia of trying to make a 'deal' with the defendants."And that deal was: all of you incriminate Gonçalo Amaral and I’ll arrange so that Leonor Cipriano says that you have nothing to do with this – well, deals like this, only in Hollywood", ironizes Pereira Cristovão.

So the allegation is by Christovao....do you know what he is doing now

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/ex-cop-who-criticised-madeleine-21043735
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on May 13, 2021, 02:04:23 PM
From your link...

Paulo Pereira Cristovão, a former PJ inspector and one of the 5 arguidos of Faro accuses Marcos Aragão Correia of trying to make a 'deal' with the defendants."And that deal was: all of you incriminate Gonçalo Amaral and I’ll arrange so that Leonor Cipriano says that you have nothing to do with this – well, deals like this, only in Hollywood", ironizes Pereira Cristovão.

So the allegation is by Christovao....do you know what he is doing now

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/ex-cop-who-criticised-madeleine-21043735

I have only seen the allegation repeated (from the link provided by Kizzy) in McCann hostile fora which are so sick making that I tend to skim read them all.

The originator is 👀 Christovao 👀 and only quoted by Morais.  It really is all intertwining and nasty to say the least.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on May 28, 2021, 01:36:21 PM
So money located to find maddie seems to be getting swallowed up on there constant hounding of the first detective on the case. who wrote a book .

Comments interesting, even though

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9626493/Madeleine-McCanns-parents-having-pay-legal-fees-fight-Portuguese-detective.html


GA's book was not a personal vendetta against the mccs, it was a summary of the investigation into the disappearance of Maddie


 The Truth of the Lie was written and published in defence of G.A. persecution by the mcs.

mcs  had their say, so why blame G.A.  for having his say.





Two years ago court files showed the couple had had to fork out £29,500 on legal fees for Amaral. Since then they have had to pay out a further £4,229 in legal costs making a total of nearly £34,000.

The European Court of Human Rights is due to rule on a further legal appeal shortly and if the McCanns lose the right to appeal they will have to pay still further court costs to Amaral.

The latest payout is detailed in accounts for the company, Madeleine's Fund: Leaving No Stone Unturned Limited, which is funding the search for the couple's daughter aged three who disappeared on May 3, 2007.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on May 28, 2021, 01:38:21 PM
So money located to find maddie seems to be getting swallowed up on there constant hounding of the first detective on the case. who wrote a book .

Comments interesting, even though

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9626493/Madeleine-McCanns-parents-having-pay-legal-fees-fight-Portuguese-detective.html


GA's book was not a personal vendetta against the mccs, it was a summary of the investigation into the disappearance of Maddie


 The Truth of the Lie was written and published in defence of G.A. persecution by the mcs.

mcs  had their say, so why blame G.A.  for having his say.





Two years ago court files showed the couple had had to fork out £29,500 on legal fees for Amaral. Since then they have had to pay out a further £4,229 in legal costs making a total of nearly £34,000.

The European Court of Human Rights is due to rule on a further legal appeal shortly and if the McCanns lose the right to appeal they will have to pay still further court costs to Amaral.

The latest payout is detailed in accounts for the company, Madeleine's Fund: Leaving No Stone Unturned Limited, which is funding the search for the couple's daughter aged three who disappeared on May 3, 2007.

Amarals book could well have affected the search
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on May 28, 2021, 01:42:04 PM
Amarals book could well have affected the search


IYO

IMO if that was the case it would have been banned.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on May 28, 2021, 01:44:16 PM

IYO

IMO if that was the case it would have been banned.

IMO... It should have been banned... Let's see what the ECHR says
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on May 28, 2021, 01:49:11 PM
IMO... It should have been banned... Let's see what the ECHR says

Well it wasn't - was it.

As for the ECHR there is a thread for that ...to wait and see.

Although it seems if they loose ECHR they may never be cleared.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on May 28, 2021, 01:51:40 PM
Well it wasn't - was it.

As for the ECHR there is a thread for that ...to wait and see.

Although it seems if they loose ECHR they may never be cleared.
What do you mean by cleared
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on May 28, 2021, 01:55:46 PM
What do you mean by cleared

G.A. will stand by every thing he has said and wrote.........so they wont exactly be 100% innocent will they.

Apart from your posts ...that is.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on May 28, 2021, 02:00:27 PM
G.A. will stand by every thing he has said and wrote.........so they wont exactly be 100% innocent will they.

Apart from your posts ...that is.
LOL
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on May 28, 2021, 02:22:31 PM
LOL

 @)(++(*..I know I have the same laughable feeling when you post about wolt.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on May 28, 2021, 03:25:10 PM
@)(++(*..I know I have the same laughable feeling when you post about wolt.

Precisely.. You trust Amaral despite proof of incompetence...
I trust Wolters... No evidence of incompetence
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on May 28, 2021, 03:36:06 PM
Precisely.. You trust Amaral despite proof of incompetence...
I trust Wolters... No evidence of incompetence

No evidence of incompetence


Or what his credibility is ...

A
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on May 28, 2021, 03:42:05 PM

No evidence of incompetence


Or what his credibility is ...

A

Proof of incompetence for Amaral... No evidence and nothing to suggest Wolters is incompetent
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on May 28, 2021, 03:47:04 PM
Proof of incompetence for Amaral... No evidence and nothing to suggest Wolters is incompetent

Well as of now what has he got..... information received from the public undesirables ..public at that.

Your words below  D

What those sightings show is how unreliable public Id evidence is...

Double standards or what.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on May 28, 2021, 04:01:56 PM
Well as of now what has he got..... information received from the public undesirables ..public at that.

Your words below  D

What those sightings show is how unreliable public Id evidence is...

Double standards or what.

You've misunderstood.. Its sightings... By the public... That are unreliable... Like the Smith sighting... Unless you believe Maddie has been spotted thousands of times
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on May 28, 2021, 04:06:43 PM
You've misunderstood.. Its sightings... By the public... That are unreliable... Like the Smith sighting... Unless you believe Maddie has been spotted thousands of times

Firstly ...you don't know the smith sighting was unreliable.

Secondly ...how reliable are the statement wolt has incriminating CB. you don't know that either.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on May 28, 2021, 04:14:35 PM
Firstly ...you don't know the smith sighting was unreliable.

Secondly ...how reliable are the statement wolt has incriminating CB. you don't know that either.

I know as a fact that sightings such as the Smith sighting... And the thousands of sightings of Madeleine are unreliable... That is a fact... Not opinion
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 28, 2021, 04:23:23 PM

IYO

IMO if that was the case it would have been banned.
Banned by whom?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on May 29, 2021, 03:36:26 PM
Banned by whom?

You know full well by whom.

But anyway the mccs have spent literally tens of thousands to have TOTL banned.

But seemed all they achieved was to give it maximum publicity,
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on May 29, 2021, 04:42:50 PM
You know full well by whom.

But anyway the mccs have spent literally tens of thousands to have TOTL banned.

But seemed all they achieved was to give it maximum publicity,

Kate and Gerry kept the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance in the public eye for years until Scotland Yard took over.  Wonder why they drew attention to themselves like that - and why SY bothered - if Amaral had already solved the case.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on May 29, 2021, 04:57:33 PM
You know full well by whom.

But anyway the mccs have spent literally tens of thousands to have TOTL banned.

But seemed all they achieved was to give it maximum publicity,

I think he may get some pretty bad publicity from the ECHR soon
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 29, 2021, 05:38:22 PM
You know full well by whom.

But anyway the mccs have spent literally tens of thousands to have TOTL banned.

But seemed all they achieved was to give it maximum publicity,
No I really don’t, that’s why I asked.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on May 29, 2021, 06:23:27 PM
Proof of incompetence for Amaral... No evidence and nothing to suggest Wolters is incompetent

The real incompetents are the T9  - Those parents 100% responsible for children's safety. can't really keep dressing that up as Amaral's fault. Especially since Uk police have had millions chucked at it and  ZERO,ZILTCH NADA.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Anthro on May 29, 2021, 08:18:32 PM
The real incompetents are the T9  - Those parents 100% responsible for children's safety. can't really keep dressing that up as Amaral's fault. Especially since Uk police have had millions chucked at it and  ZERO,ZILTCH NADA.
I agree, MissTaken. Parents are 100% responsible for the wellbeing of their children. In reality though, it is impossible to be present all the time in any given context and circumstance. In the case of Madeleine, Sean and Amelie, I believe Gerry and Kate made decisions, as responsible and caring parents, that would be logistically practical during their vacation. They had no knowledge, reference or prejudice re. pedophiles in the region.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: barrier on May 29, 2021, 08:21:25 PM
I agree, MissTaken. Parents are 100% responsible for the wellbeing of their children. In reality though, it is impossible to be present all the time in any given context and circumstance. In the case of Madeleine, Sean and Amelie, I believe Gerry and Kate made decisions, as responsible and caring parents, that would be logistically practical during their vacation. They had no knowledge, reference or prejudice re. pedophiles in the region.

With that in mind, what difference does it make, with still no definitive answer to what happened on the night of 3/05/2007.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Anthro on May 29, 2021, 08:29:20 PM
With that in mind, what difference does it make, with still no definitive answer to what happened on the night of 3/05/2007.
Contextually, it does make a difference Barrier. The German investigation, to me, stumbled upon data connected to Madeleine’s disappearance. Listening to Mr Wolters, his emphasis is not on apartment 5A, but rather what has happened to Madeleine after she left/was removed from 5A.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: barrier on May 29, 2021, 08:35:26 PM
Contextually, it does make a difference Barrier. The German investigation, to me, stumbled upon data connected to Madeleine’s disappearance. Listening to Mr Wolters, his emphasis is not on apartment 5A, but rather what has happened to Madeleine after she left/was removed from 5A.

OG must have had this info in 2014 or even prior to it, it was supposed to have been phone data that led them to the three amigo's, imo its unconceivable if OG can cut the mustard to have not known of CB, if indeed he is a suspect in their eye's.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on May 29, 2021, 08:51:43 PM
OG must have had this info in 2014 or even prior to it, it was supposed to have been phone data that led them to the three amigo's, imo its unconceivable if OG can cut the mustard to have not known of CB, if indeed he is a suspect in their eye's.

Why do you suppose the Policia Judiciaria who had the phone data in 2007 - and who, according to Amaral also knocked on Brueckner's door in 2007 but he wasn't in - do something - anything with that information.

Seems to me had they done so in 2007 they might have saved everyone years of bother ~ with the off chance that they might have retrieved Madeleine had they looked out instead of looking in.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: barrier on May 29, 2021, 09:21:35 PM
Why do you suppose the Policia Judiciaria who had the phone data in 2007 - and who, according to Amaral also knocked on Brueckner's door in 2007 but he wasn't in - do something - anything with that information.

Seems to me had they done so in 2007 they might have saved everyone years of bother ~ with the off chance that they might have retrieved Madeleine had they looked out instead of looking in.

So you accept the much maligned PJ gathered the phone date and SY didn't pick up on it letting it roll on for another 6 yrs.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on May 29, 2021, 09:45:31 PM
So you accept the much maligned PJ gathered the phone date and SY didn't pick up on it letting it roll on for another 6 yrs.
You don't really know much about this case do you.

Scotland Yard had nothing to do with the Portuguese investigation from 2007 onwards until they opened Madeleine's case in 2013.

All those years - all that water under the bridge - and Brueckner free to stalk wherever and whatever he chose.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Carana on May 30, 2021, 01:58:20 PM
Sorry, I haven't followed every exchange on this voluminous thread.

The topic title is:

"How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared."

Doesn't that apply to every human on Planet Earth? Has anyone even on here been 100% cleared?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 30, 2021, 02:15:35 PM
Sorry, I haven't followed every exchange on this voluminous thread.

The topic title is:

"How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared."

Doesn't that apply to every human on Planet Earth? Has anyone even on here been 100% cleared?
It was a really dumb thread premise that’s for sure.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on May 30, 2021, 02:49:10 PM
Sorry, I haven't followed every exchange on this voluminous thread.

The topic title is:

"How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared."

Doesn't that apply to every human on Planet Earth? Has anyone even on here been 100% cleared?

Doesn't that apply to every human on Planet Earth? Has anyone even on here been 100% cleared?

Been cleared........ what for.


Well isn't it obvious  - its were the mccs involved in Maddie's disappearance.

When it seems quite a few on here think they are totally innocent when no one knows.

I don't know what your point is really C

Why would anyone on here need to be cleared 100% for what happened to maddie
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Carana on May 30, 2021, 02:59:09 PM
Doesn't that apply to every human on Planet Earth? Has anyone even on here been 100% cleared?

Been cleared........ what for.


Well isn't it obvious  - its were the mccs involved in Maddie's disappearance.

When it seems quite a few on here think they are totally innocent when no one knows.

I don't know what your point is really C

Why would anyone on here need to be cleared 100% for what happened to maddie

Because if no one on this planet has been 100% cleared, then any one of us might not be 100% innocent.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: jassi on May 30, 2021, 03:14:37 PM
Because if no one on this planet has been 100% cleared, then any one of us might not be 100% innocent.


Everybody is guilty of something  8(0(*
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Carana on May 30, 2021, 03:22:38 PM

Everybody is guilty of something  8(0(*

LOL True, even if it was breaking your sibling's toy as a 4-year-old and denying it. :)

That doesn't alter the fact that anyone on this planet could be potentially guilty of whatever happened to this child, as no one has been formally accused, let alone tried... and therefore no one has been 100% cleared.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on May 30, 2021, 04:16:10 PM
Because if no one on this planet has been 100% cleared, then any one of us might not be 100% innocent.

 @)(++(* What are you seriously saying anyone of us might be involved in what happened to Maddie.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: jassi on May 30, 2021, 04:26:05 PM
@)(++(* What are you seriously saying anyone of us might be involved in what happened to Maddie.

Ah well, you could be Mr/Mrs/Ms Big who planned it all, and who's to know  ?  8)-)))
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on May 30, 2021, 04:32:03 PM
Kate and Gerry kept the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance in the public eye for years until Scotland Yard took over.  Wonder why they drew attention to themselves like that - and why SY bothered - if Amaral had already solved the case.

I think you will find it was the media imo who kept it in  the public eye. the mccs had no choice.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on May 30, 2021, 05:34:57 PM
I think you will find it was the media imo who kept it in  the public eye. the mccs had no choice.

That is certainly a fresh take on reality ~ however be my guest and fire away ~ your posts are seldom worth refuting and that one tops the bill till the next one 😁
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on May 30, 2021, 05:45:14 PM
That is certainly a fresh take on reality ~ however be my guest and fire away ~ your posts are seldom worth refuting and that one tops the bill till the next one 😁

Well it certainly got your back up to even bother to comment - even though imo Its not nice to be insulting.

Especially when you are a senior moderator.

How did they keep Maddie in the public eye if itwasn'tt in the interest of the Media.

Do you think they are still keeping maddie in the public eye - or is that still the media.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 30, 2021, 06:08:23 PM
I think you will find it was the media imo who kept it in  the public eye. the mccs had no choice.
Yes they did.  Kate wrote a best-selling book that was serialised in the country’s best selling newspaper, who campaigned on their behalf to government to get the case reviewed, which it was, leading to all the numerous subsequent media reports.  The McCanns could have chosen to let Madeleine’s case fade away into obscurity but they chose not to.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Carana on May 30, 2021, 06:54:51 PM
@)(++(* What are you seriously saying anyone of us might be involved in what happened to Maddie.

According to the logic of the thread title... why not?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on May 30, 2021, 08:20:51 PM
Well it certainly got your back up to even bother to comment - even though imo Its not nice to be insulting.

Especially when you are a senior moderator.

How did they keep Maddie in the public eye if itwasn'tt in the interest of the Media.

Do you think they are still keeping maddie in the public eye - or is that still the media.

Do you realise.. I don't think you do.. No one has ever claimed the McCanns are 100% innocent
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: G-Unit on May 30, 2021, 09:32:11 PM
Do you realise.. I don't think you do.. No one has ever claimed the McCanns are 100% innocent

Isabel Duarte to the Portuguese Supreme Court;

Exactly because they are not only absolutely innocent,
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7937.0 page 42.

Absolutely = completely, totally, utterly.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on May 30, 2021, 09:42:28 PM
Isabel Duarte to the Portuguese Supreme Court;

Exactly because they are not only absolutely innocent,
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7937.0 page 42.

Absolutely = completely, totally, utterly.
The McCanns claim to be 100% Innocent... Do you have a problem with that. I can't claim they are.. But they are fully entitled to say they are...
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on May 31, 2021, 12:08:48 PM
According to the logic of the thread title... why not?

Why not, do you really have to ask. are you trying to imply then there could be some on here or else where.

Who have left there three toddler/babies alon in an apartment regardless of the dangers to go to a bar.

Resulting in one of there children never to be seen again.

Its the mcs I was referring to as in the itle not being as innocent as some think imo.

They have never been proved inocent it seems.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on May 31, 2021, 12:09:56 PM
The McCanns claim to be 100% Innocent... Do you have a problem with that. I can't claim they are.. But they are fully entitled to say they are...

Oh LOL ...they are not exactly going to say they are guilty are they.

Just because they are entitled to say it ...doesn't mean they are imo.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 31, 2021, 12:14:08 PM
Why not, do you really have to ask. are you trying to imply then there could be some on here or else where.

Who have left there three toddler/babies alon in an apartment regardless of the dangers to go to a bar.

Resulting in one of there children never to be seen again.

Its the mcs I was referring to as in the itle not being as innocent as some think imo.

They have never been proved inocent it seems.
Your thread title implies that unless the McCanns have been 100% cleared (is that even a thing, I mean can you be 99% cleared) that they cannot be 100% innocent.  Applying this logically we could say that neither Robert Murat nor Christian Bruckner has been 100% cleared and therefore neither of them is 100% innocent either.  And if that is the logical conclusion then why stop at these 4, and not also include the other arguidos in this case who have not been 100% cleared (is this a legal concept btw?).  And then if they haven't been 100% cleared, then what about the Tapas friends who were never even made arguidos?  Have they been 100% cleared?  If yes, are they 100% innocent, or maybe only 75% innocent?  And if they haven't been 100% cleared then what percentage of innocent are they? 
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Brietta on May 31, 2021, 12:28:34 PM
Your thread title implies that unless the McCanns have been 100% cleared (is that even a thing, I mean can you be 99% cleared) that they cannot be 100% innocent.  Applying this logically we could say that neither Robert Murat nor Christian Bruckner has been 100% cleared and therefore neither of them is 100% innocent either.  And if that is the logical conclusion then why stop at these 4, and not also include the other arguidos in this case who have not been 100% cleared (is this a legal concept btw?).  And then if they haven't been 100% cleared, then what about the Tapas friends who were never even made arguidos?  Have they been 100% cleared?  If yes, are they 100% innocent, or maybe only 75% innocent?  And if they haven't been 100% cleared then what percentage of innocent are they?

Interesting thought.
Is the 100% innocent theory inclusive of the Ocean Club employees who made witness statements and everyone else appearing in the files?
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on May 31, 2021, 12:57:30 PM
Your thread title implies that unless the McCanns have been 100% cleared (is that even a thing, I mean can you be 99% cleared) that they cannot be 100% innocent.  Applying this logically we could say that neither Robert Murat nor Christian Bruckner has been 100% cleared and therefore neither of them is 100% innocent either.  And if that is the logical conclusion then why stop at these 4, and not also include the other arguidos in this case who have not been 100% cleared (is this a legal concept btw?).  And then if they haven't been 100% cleared, then what about the Tapas friends who were never even made arguidos?  Have they been 100% cleared?  If yes, are they 100% innocent, or maybe only 75% innocent?  And if they haven't been 100% cleared then what percentage of innocent are they?

Because this is a mcc thread.

Simple really... if you don't like it ...dont post on it.

I like thousands of others it seems believe the mcs are involved in what happened to maddie.

The TOTH R. H. vidio's Peter Hyatt all still available to read ...

its not as cut and dried it seems the mccs as innocent as you think IMO
 
https://mmknowthetruth.blogspot.com/2017/05/statement-analysis-by-peter-hyatt_14.html
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on May 31, 2021, 01:02:10 PM
Because this is a mcc thread.

Simple really... if you don't like it ...dont post on it.

I like thousands of others it seems believe the mcs are involved in what happened to maddie.

The TOTH R. H. vidio's Peter Hyatt all still available to read ...

its not as cut and dried it seems the mccs as innocent as you think IMO
 
https://mmknowthetruth.blogspot.com/2017/05/statement-analysis-by-peter-hyatt_14.html

R D Hall used a statement analysis expert to analyse statements ,from witnesses and victims of the Manchester bombing. They decide the people were lying and the bombing was a hoax...its on his website.

What do you think of that...do you beleive halls conclusions on the bombings
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 31, 2021, 01:05:23 PM
Because this is a mcc thread.

Simple really... if you don't like it ...dont post on it.

I like thousands of others it seems believe the mcs are involved in what happened to maddie.

The TOTH R. H. vidio's Peter Hyatt all still available to read ...

its not as cut and dried it seems the mccs as innocent as you think IMO
 
https://mmknowthetruth.blogspot.com/2017/05/statement-analysis-by-peter-hyatt_14.html
I like commenting on threads, even the really stupid ones like this, so please I don't need your advice on when I should and shouldn't comment, thanks.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on May 31, 2021, 01:19:07 PM
R D Hall used a statement analysis expert to analyse statements ,from witnesses and victims of the Manchester bombing. They decide the people were lying and the bombing was a hoax...its on his website.

What do you think of that...do you beleive halls conclusions on the bombings

Im thinking all the accusations he did against the mccs - all still there...and the mccs did nothing about it.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Eleanor on May 31, 2021, 01:20:08 PM
Anyone on this Forum could be involved, apart from Carly and me.  Perpetrators turn up in the most unexpected places.  Although I somewhat doubt they they would be defending The McCanns.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on May 31, 2021, 01:21:28 PM
I like commenting on threads, even the really stupid ones like this, so please I don't need your advice on when I should and shouldn't comment, thanks.

Oh, OK, just didn't want you to feel obliged you had to post.  8((()*/
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on May 31, 2021, 01:23:07 PM
Im thinking all the accusations he did against the mccs - all still there...and the mccs did nothing about it.

So are all the accusations against the victims of the Manchester bombing... Do you think he's right and it was all a hoax which he's proved using statement analysis
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on May 31, 2021, 01:25:28 PM
So are all the accusations against the victims of the Manchester bombing... Do you think he's right and it was all a hoax which he's proved using statement analysis

We ar not on abut the bombings are we its the mccs.

Start a thread on it an I ll let you no what I think on there.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on May 31, 2021, 01:30:54 PM
We ar not on abut the bombings are we its the mccs.

Start a thread on it an I ll let you no what I think on there.

You can't answer because you know it's a stupid claim which makes his allegations against the McCanns equally stupid
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 31, 2021, 05:20:25 PM
Oh, OK, just didn't want you to feel obliged you had to post.  8((()*/
I never feel obliged to post but I would like to know what percentage cleared and what percentage innocent you put on the McCanns, as your thread title seems to suggest more than 0% but less than 100%.  I’d also like to know how you arrived at the percentages. 
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on June 04, 2021, 01:20:01 PM
I never feel obliged to post but I would like to know what percentage cleared and what percentage innocent you put on the McCanns, as your thread title seems to suggest more than 0% but less than 100%.  I’d also like to know how you arrived at the percentages.

Because I believe imo the mcs were involved.

Now what is your percentage of them not being involved.

The police forces often mentioned as not believing the mccs were involved imo are only working on assumption.

They only think Maddie was abducted. as there is certainly no evidence imo that she was.

Nothing, absolutely nothing, was ever checked out to even back what the mcs  said up. or Maddie was abducted imo
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 04, 2021, 01:28:43 PM
Because I believe imo the mcs were involved.

Now what is your percentage of them not being involved.

The police forces often mentioned as not believing the mccs were involved imo are only working on assumption.

They only think Maddie was abducted. as there is certainly no evidence imo that she was.

Nothing, absolutely nothing, was ever checked out to even back what the mcs  said up. or Maddie was abducted imo
I asked for your percentages first, so fire away!
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: kizzy on June 04, 2021, 03:27:41 PM
I asked for your percentages first, so fire away!

BANG.


Well obviously 100%
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 04, 2021, 05:01:47 PM
BANG.


Well obviously 100%
So, 100% innocent and 100% cleared?  I AM surprised!
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 14, 2021, 04:46:02 PM
Stranger abduction was a theory which became a 'fact', despite the lack of evidence. In my opinion one of the reasons it became a 'fact' was constant repetition.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20161026-how-liars-create-the-illusion-of-truth#:~:text=%E2%80%9CRepeat%20a%20lie%20often%20enough,%22illusion%20of%20truth%22%20effect.

What we now have from the PR companies  is 'their truth' 'their lived experience'. which isn't THE truth just how they interperet things.  Take The DUCK AND duckess of suckess  as an example. The OW interview was indeed THEIR truth.   Fantastic, absolutely brilliant.

Son (found stealing his sisters sweets) to mother, I am not lying, Mum to son, 'Yes you are I saw you and there are others who know'. Son.. mum This is MY truth and my ived experience the sweets fell into my mouth by accident!
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 19, 2021, 03:17:30 PM
Stranger abduction was a theory which became a 'fact', despite the lack of evidence. In my opinion one of the reasons it became a 'fact' was constant repetition.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20161026-how-liars-create-the-illusion-of-truth#:~:text=%E2%80%9CRepeat%20a%20lie%20often%20enough,%22illusion%20of%20truth%22%20effect.

Absolutely spot on (imo).
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on June 19, 2021, 04:07:26 PM
Absolutely spot on (imo).

Gunit is absolutely wrong.. As are you. I see stranger abduction as the most likely scenario... That doesnt make it a fact. Having said that evidence may well exist now that shows it is a fact. I think from ehat Wolters has said he has solid proof of stranger abduction
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: G-Unit on June 19, 2021, 06:36:00 PM
Gunit is absolutely wrong.. As are you. I see stranger abduction as the most likely scenario... That doesnt make it a fact. Having said that evidence may well exist now that shows it is a fact. I think from ehat Wolters has said he has solid proof of stranger abduction

Stranger abduction is not nor ever was a fact. Operation Grange have spent years searching for a culprit for a crime they can't prove was committed imo. Now the Germans have found a culprit, but are not as yet able to connect him to the supposed crime.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on June 19, 2021, 06:48:19 PM
Stranger abduction is not nor ever was a fact. Operation Grange have spent years searching for a culprit for a crime they can't prove was committed imo. Now the Germans have found a culprit, but are not as yet able to connect him to the supposed crime.

If you read my post ypu will srr I dont regard it as a fact... But the most likely scenario.. SY seem tp to agree and. Thatds why they are investigating. I dont agree with you that they are limited by the remit.. And I certainly dont agree that they are invedtigating an abduction because the parents said so.
You dont what link. HCW has... Just s biased guess imo
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 19, 2021, 06:58:41 PM
Is it a fact that Claudia Lawrence and Susie Lamplugh were abducted and murdered?  G-Unit would presumably argue that without any evidence it is not, but to anyone with a logical view of life the answer is without doubt yes.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: G-Unit on June 19, 2021, 09:24:34 PM
Is it a fact that Claudia Lawrence and Susie Lamplugh were abducted and murdered?  G-Unit would presumably argue that without any evidence it is not, but to anyone with a logical view of life the answer is without doubt yes.

There is always more evidence to support adult abduction. Lack of contact, lack of use of bank accounts etc.
Title: Re: How can the Mccanns be 100% innocent - when they haven't been 100% been cleared.
Post by: Davel on June 19, 2021, 09:33:36 PM
There is always more evidence to support adult abduction. Lack of contact, lack of use of bank accounts etc.

I would day there is plenty of indirect evidece that MM was abducted...... And now I think Wolters has proof.

The wheels have come off the sceptic bus... Imo