KM's Paperback (PB)

[Mr Gray]

This level of pedantry is disrupting a fairly interesting debate.

Time to move on.

Are you accusing me of being pedantic... That is personal abuse...

[Holly Goodhead]

That is exactly what most Catholics do, turn to their faith and prayer in times of trouble.

What do they do in the good times? 

[The General]

What do they do in the good times?

I assume they give thanks to their god for bequeathing temporary benevolence.

[Holly Goodhead]

By all the supporting docs I think you will find are written in Portuguese by the translators.  We know from kates book that when she questioned a translator the translator became quite angry.  Without something direct from Gerry just we don't know

KM makes no ref to any initial translation problems with regard to GM and the front door/unsecured patio doors.

[The General]

Are you accusing me of being pedantic... That is personal abuse...

It could now be perceived that you're being pedantic about being accused of being pedantic.

[Robittybob1]

Faith = strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.

Which particular words are you referring to?

I don't see any evidence that Catholicism played a significant part in KM's life pre or post MM's disappearance.  Afaik the Catholic church opposes IVF.  By her own admission it is something she uses in times of trouble like I might use a brisk walk in the countryside and a glass of very strong Belgium beer!

As in page #272 "God let them be wrong"  they are the words in this example, but faith is the belief that that will now happen.

"“Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.” Simply put, the biblical definition of faith is “trusting in something you cannot explicitly prove.”" https://www.gotquestions.org/definition-of-faith.html

[Holly Goodhead]

I assume they give thanks to their god for bequeathing temporary benevolence.

But KM makes no reference to doing this pre or post MM's disappearance.  It seems to me it is all about using her God in times of trouble which range from conceiving MM in the first instance to finding her thereafter.

[Erngath]

What do they do in the good times?

Possibly pray a little less.
I'm reminded of an article I read recently about Bruce Springsteen and his Catholic faith.
There was a quote from him which is very true.
However I Will have to find it again.

[Robittybob1]

But KM makes no reference to doing this pre or post MM's disappearance.  It seems to me it is all about using her God in times of trouble which range from conceiving MM in the first instance to finding her thereafter.

It might read like that but the test is to maintain faith while doing that.

[Mr Gray]

KM makes no ref to any initial translation problems with regard to GM and the front door/unsecured patio doors.

Km makes reference in her book to lots of errors in the translations

[The General]

But KM makes no reference to doing this pre or post MM's disappearance.  It seems to me it is all about using her God in times of trouble which range from conceiving MM in the first instance to finding her thereafter.

There's a whiff of Pascal's Wager in this - the belated pleading or renewed faith in the face of a crisis. Consider the plight of the agnostic hostage, pleading with god for their lives, almost as a final, desperate (and ultimately futile) gambit.

Are the 'religious', when not facing a crisis, giving thanks for general benevolence or mercy from malevolence?

[Mr Gray]

There's a whiff of Pascal's Wager in this - the belated pleading or renewed faith in the face of a crisis. Consider the plight of the agnostic hostage, pleading with god for their lives, almost as a final, desperate (and ultimately futile) gambit.

Are the 'religious', when not facing a crisis, giving thanks for general benevolence or mercy from malevolence?

It's obvious to me that at times of crisis... Some turn to god..
It's quite natural. 

[Holly Goodhead]

It might read like that but the test is to maintain faith while doing that.

So what's in it for God if he only has to listen to peoples' troubles? 

Pre MM's disappearance KM does not refer to religion playing any part in her life other than the normal childhood stuff eg attending Catholic schools, mass on Sundays and going along with what she was told by those around her.  Thereafter she refers to her friend Father Paul Seddon marrying her and baptizing MM.

KM moved away from Liverpool during the 80's when she started her medi degree at Dundee uni.  Upon graduating she then lived in Glasgow, New Zealand and Holland before settling in Leicester but she doesn't mention seeking out churches in these places. 

She does say at times church took a back seat and adds it was always there in the background a source of comfort, refuge and support.  It seems to me its all take and no give in this relationship with God?

 

[Holly Goodhead]

As in page #272 "God let them be wrong"  they are the words in this example, but faith is the belief that that will now happen.

"“Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.” Simply put, the biblical definition of faith is “trusting in something you cannot explicitly prove.”" https://www.gotquestions.org/definition-of-faith.html

I don't think KM's quote is meant literally eg page 20..."God knows where that come from..." re some childhood idea of wanting to be a haematologist.

[Holly Goodhead]

Km makes reference in her book to lots of errors in the translations

Do you have a cite?  And specifically a cite for the point under discussion?