KM's Paperback (PB)

[Holly Goodhead]

Did I mention that Kate had compared it with anything?  Perhaps she did but having read the book yourself I thought you might have drawn your own conclusions for discussion rather than relying on my anecdotes for the starting point.
Like for example being unable either in Britain or in Portugal to run a Crimewatch style programme in cooperation with the police to catch the interest of holidaymakers who had returned home and who might have information, because of restrictions imposed by Portuguese law.
I can also state for a certainty that she was scathing about the illegal leaks emanating from the police which plagued the investigation.

There actually is a mine of information contained within the pages of Kates book ... so sad really that a minority of members appear only to be interested in the few words which sceptics have chosen to define it; or what a third party thinks rather than relying on informing themselves straight from the source.

No you didn't mention that KM compared the investigation into MM's disappearance with other investigations that's why I asked.  For someone to say this, that or the other was good, bad or indifferent they surely must have some reference point in the first instance? 

[Brietta]

Let's get real.

Newspapers love to describe police investigations as 'botched'.

People who wish a different outcome from formal proceedings often describe them as 'botched'.

I am critical of certain aspects of OG's performance.  Should I, on this basis, describe their whole effort as 'botched'?

'Botched' is a soapbox description straight from the House of Commons, and is best left there.

Obviously IMO.

Did Kate in her book describe the police procedures for when a child goes missing as being 'textbook'?  Would you be content if the same procedures she describes were to be followed if one of your relatives went missing today or might you express concern if they were?

The dictionary defines 'Botch' as being Late Middle English ... so whether that, House of Commons or soapbox ... the meaning doesn't change from being a badly or carelessly carried out task.
My reading of the police investigation into Madeleine's disappearance indicates to me that 'botched' describes it appropriately.

[ShiningInLuz]

Did Kate in her book describe the police procedures for when a child goes missing as being 'textbook'?  Would you be content if the same procedures she describes were to be followed if one of your relatives went missing today or might you express concern if they were?

The dictionary defines 'Botch' as being Late Middle English ... so whether that, House of Commons or soapbox ... the meaning doesn't change from being a badly or carelessly carried out task.
My reading of the police investigation into Madeleine's disappearance indicates to me that 'botched' describes it appropriately.

Then what you are doing is opening the door for others to express their opinions is similar terminology.

As in the McCanns 'botched' their handling of the police and press no later than 4 May.

It's stuff straight from the gutter.

[Brietta]

No you didn't mention that KM compared the investigation into MM's disappearance with other investigations that's why I asked.  For someone to say this, that or the other was good, bad or indifferent they surely must have some reference point in the first instance?

Why on earth do you think Kate should be obliged to compare Madeleine's disappearance with anything?  What happened to the McCann family was in my opinion unique to them and unique to Madeleine.

I am using the same reference point as you which on this thread is Kate McCann's book in which she describes the kidnap of her daughter and the aftermath.
I don't think you and I appear to be reading the same book.
I have read and understood the whole book description by an individual describing the most traumatic and unthinkable event of her life and the lives of her family without compartmentalising  "good, bad or indifferent".

[Brietta]

Then what you are doing is opening the door for others to express their opinions is similar terminology.

As in the McCanns 'botched' their handling of the police and press no later than 4 May.

It's stuff straight from the gutter.

Kate's book does indeed make many references to all aspects of the press ... but I think the interesting points you raise which although discussed ad nauseam here and elsewhere would be well worth you opening the subject on its own thread which will give it the advantage of at least being On Topic.

[ShiningInLuz]

Kate's book does indeed make many references to all aspects of the press ... but I think the interesting points you raise which although discussed ad nauseam here and elsewhere would be well worth you opening the subject on its own thread which will give it the advantage of at least being On Topic.

Kate's book covers the initial response, so I was definitely on topic.

[Holly Goodhead]

Why on earth do you think Kate should be obliged to compare Madeleine's disappearance with anything?  What happened to the McCann family was in my opinion unique to them and unique to Madeleine.

I am using the same reference point as you which on this thread is Kate McCann's book in which she describes the kidnap of her daughter and the aftermath.
I don't think you and I appear to be reading the same book.
I have read and understood the whole book description by an individual describing the most traumatic and unthinkable event of her life and the lives of her family without compartmentalising  "good, bad or indifferent".

But she is critical of officers, the investigation and even the appearance of the police station and yet we have no idea of her reference points. 

[The General]

Does it mention anywhere in Kate's bestseller that they botched their own child care arrangements, or lack of them?

[Holly Goodhead]

Does it mention anywhere in Kate's bestseller that they botched their own child care arrangements, or lack of them?

I can only recall the following:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11076.msg559885#msg559885

[Brietta]

Kate's book covers the initial response, so I was definitely on topic.

No need to get all defensive since I accused you of no such thing. If it is your opinion your post was in reference to Kate's book, fine by me.  However the risk of deflection would most certainly be reduced were you to follow my suggestion bearing in mind the thrust of your post which if I remember correctly, was press abuse.

[Brietta]

But she is critical of officers, the investigation and even the appearance of the police station and yet we have no idea of her reference points.

I rather doubt that Kate McCann or any of her party had much familiarity with the inside of police stations which are probably not the most inviting of environments at the best of times.

She was writing a memoir describing events, people and places.  I think therefore her description of the police station is just that ... a description.

I must say I am rather intrigued with the style of your critique.

[ShiningInLuz]

No need to get all defensive since I accused you of no such thing. If it is your opinion your post was in reference to Kate's book, fine by me.  However the risk of deflection would most certainly be reduced were you to follow my suggestion bearing in mind the thrust of your post which if I remember correctly, was press abuse.

You've now shifted from off-topic to deflection.   

You raised 'botched' and I responded.  Simple.

[Holly Goodhead]

I can only recall the following:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11076.msg559885#msg559885

The index lists children, checking but no mention of the unsecured patio doors eg P165:

Had Madeleine been specifically targeted, either for herself or because someone knew that apartment 5A would be a breeze to raid?  Not only did its corner position allow for easy access and escape, but unlike many other residences, it had no protective wrought-iron bars at the windows and no security light.  Page 165.

The above is disingenuous imo and further evidence of blame shifting. 

How many other residences contained 3 small sleeping children left alone night after night in an apartment with unlocked patio doors?  Of course its easier to blame the lack of wrought iron bars and no security light.   

[Brietta]

The index lists children, checking but no mention of the unsecured patio doors eg P165:

Had Madeleine been specifically targeted, either for herself or because someone knew that apartment 5A would be a breeze to raid?  Not only did its corner position allow for easy access and escape, but unlike many other residences, it had no protective wrought-iron bars at the windows and no security light.  Page 165.

The above is disingenuous imo and further evidence of blame shifting. 

How many other residences contained 3 small sleeping children left alone night after night in an apartment with unlocked patio doors?  Of course its easier to blame the lack of wrought iron bars and no security light.   

Snip
We talked through the guilt we felt about not having been in that apartment with the children; about having left the patio doors unlocked

madeleine:  Kate McCann

[Holly Goodhead]

Snip
We talked through the guilt we felt about not having been in that apartment with the children; about having left the patio doors unlocked

madeleine:  Kate McCann

Yes I quoted that up thread and said afaik its the only ref to the unsecured patio doors.