ECHR urge McCanns to reach friendly settlement with Gonçalo Amaral.

[Venturi Swirl]

Oh, lol and here's me thinking it meant this ....mid you I think it does


3 = Low importance: Judgments, decisions and advisory opinions of little legal interest, namely judgments and decisions that simply apply existing case-law, friendly settlements and strike outs (unless raising a particular point of interest). The importance levels are mentioned in the notice accompanying each document.

that’s exactly what Davel said, you’ve just confirmed it.

[kizzy]

that’s exactly what Davel said, you’ve just confirmed it.

Well you can certainly understand my post better than his.

[Miss Taken Identity]

Well you can certainly understand my post better than his.

Some people just can't get to grips with some things.  For example 'Presumed innocent' doesn't mean they are innocent, being suspected without enough evidence to convict is a legitimate legal status. That is why it is said to be 'presumed innocent' until convicted and found to be guilty.

The PJ  found they did not have enough evidence, but imo they did suspect they have not told the truth  about certain things pertaining to their daughter disappearance.  The case is still being investigated. Amaral has nothing to do with this casse as their claim is against a countries legal system not  a person.

[Mr Gray]

Some people just can't get to grips with some things.  For example 'Presumed innocent' doesn't mean they are innocent, being suspected without enough evidence to convict is a legitimate legal status. That is why it is said to be 'presumed innocent' until convicted and found to be guilty.

The PJ  found they did not have enough evidence,   The case is still being investigated. Amaral has nothing to do with this casse as their claim is against a countries legal system not  a person.

I think you will find most posters understand what Presumed Innocent means.
The ECHR case will concern Amaral...not directly but it relates to what he wrote and how much evidence he had to support his claims. Then if thecCanns are successful which judging by previous case law they will be....  if Amaral repeats his claims he could end up back in court

[Miss Taken Identity]

I think you will find most posters understand what Presumed Innocent means.
The ECHR case will concern Amaral...not directly but it relates to what he wrote and how much evidence he had to support his claims. Then if thecCanns are successful which judging by previous case law they will be....  if Amaral repeats his claims he could end up back in court

Which court?

[Mr Gray]

Which court?

A Portuguese court of course

[Miss Taken Identity]

A Portuguese court of course

Oh..... the non libel- libel trial court? That would be cool.

[Mr Gray]

Oh..... the non libel- libel trial court? That would be cool.

Its been confirmed that one oof the two points in question is article 8 whichcovers defamation/libel

[Mr Gray]

Still no sign of the link I requested. Who the heck is Tony?

PROVEN FACTS

6. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in the apartment 5A, Ocean Club [alínea AR) of the undisputed facts].

7. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in a vehicle rented by the claimants after the disappearance of MMC [alínea AS) of the undisputed facts].
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6307.0 page 8

in order for us to understand exactly what this means we need to know what Alinea AS  and Alinea AR means. Alianea means paragrah I beleive which means to me there is more to this stateemnt than what has been translated or released

[Venturi Swirl]

in order for us to understand exactly what this means we need to know what Alinea AS  and Alinea AR means. Alianea means paragrah I beleive which means to me there is more to this stateemnt than what has been translated or released

I think it refers to another document of "Undisputed facts" that were presumably given a reference A-Z, then AA-AZ - have we ever seen this document?  Who decided these facts were undisputed anyway?

[Carana]

I think it refers to another document of "Undisputed facts" that were presumably given a reference A-Z, then AA-AZ - have we ever seen this document?  Who decided these facts were undisputed anyway?

Celestial teapot.

Or whatever the equivalent expression in Portuguese.

[Venturi Swirl]

Celestial teapot.

Or whatever the equivalent expression in Portuguese.

Why?  Which bit?

[Carana]

Why?  Which bit?

My understanding is that some of the so-called "proven facts" were true (Madeleine's DOB, etc.). A few others were disputed (from memory, some of the alleged revenue streams), but other points weren't allowed to be disputed (e.g., what the dogs actually reacted to), as disputing the veracity of what was in the files would have been the remit of a criminal trial, not the civil case for damages.

If my understanding is correct, if there had been "expert" testimony /a report in the files up until Amaral got booted to the effect that the parents had established a cloning factory on Jupiter, then that assertion, could - in theory -  have made the "proven fact" list for the purposes of the civil court case (based on the files established until Amaral was removed).

It couldn't have been disputed and was therefore officially undisputed... but that doesn't make the assertion true, only that it was recorded in the files up until his departure and was therefore not a total invention by Amaral.

The fact that Eddie would also alert to the scent of blood from a living human being appears to have only been established post-Amaral.

IMO, the dogs aren't the only issue.

[Mr Gray]

My understanding is that some of the so-called "proven facts" were true (Madeleine's DOB, etc.). A few others were disputed (from memory, some of the alleged revenue streams), but other points weren't allowed to be disputed (e.g., what the dogs actually reacted to), as disputing the veracity of what was in the files would have been the remit of a criminal trial, not the civil case for damages.

If my understanding is correct, if there had been "expert" testimony /a report in the files up until Amaral got booted to the effect that the parents had established a cloning factory on Jupiter, then that assertion, could - in theory -  have made the "proven fact" list for the purposes of the civil court case (based on the files established until Amaral was removed).

It couldn't have been disputed and was therefore officially undisputed... but that doesn't make the assertion true, only that it was recorded in the files up until his departure and was therefore not a total invention by Amaral.

The fact that Eddie would also alert to the scent of blood from a living human being appears to have only been established post-Amaral.

IMO, the dogs aren't the only issue.

Thanks Carana that makes perfect sense. It was also in the files that at a meeting with VGrime at Amarals office the PJ eere told the alerts haf no evident value and no inference could be drawn  from them without physical evidence.

[Carana]

Thanks Carana that makes perfect sense. It was also in the files that at a meeting with VGrime at Amarals office the PJ eere told the alerts haf no evident value and no inference could be drawn  from them without physical evidence.

The meeting apparently took place in Amaral's office, but I have never found it clear if Amaral was actually present or not.