Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy

[AnneGuedes]

The cadaver dog only alerted at the back not the front so that's a good indication on where she left from using that hypothesis.

What do you mean, Pathfinder ? Eddie smelt the scent he had been trained to as soon as the (main) door was opened. He alerted on the flower bed, seeming to mean that a body had been lying there for while. Can a cadaver dog follow the trail of a carried body ? Possibly, but how long after ?
Cadaver dogs originate from rescue dogs. Some handlers discovered that air sniffing dogs were repelled by cadaver scent. That gave them the idea of selecting those dogs to send them on disaster places, once the rescue ones had found whoever could be found alive.

[pathfinder73]

The flower bed alerted by Eddie was in the back garden not the front?

[AnneGuedes]

The flower bed alerted by Eddie was in the back garden not the front?

"Back" and "front" are confusing : when you look at the building, actually the north part seems to be the back and the south one the front as long as you imagine the door-window is a door (can be opened and shut from either side).
I don't see how the flowerbed's alert means that Smithman left through the door-window (though he likely did so, dark and desert alley, except for a few steps easy to control).

[pathfinder73]

"Back" and "front" are confusing : when you look at the building, actually the north part seems to be the back and the south one the front as long as you imagine the door-window is a door (can be opened and shut from either side).
I don't see how the flowerbed's alert means that Smithman left through the door-window (though he likely did so, dark and desert alley, except for a few steps easy to control).

Yes I understand what you mean, it can get confusing. Yeah back means path side/tapas side. To get to the flower bed you have to descend the stairs into the garden so unless Madeleine fell from the balcony, she would have to be moved there before leaving IMO. Check coast is clear scenario.

p.s. also interesting scent indicated outside parent's bedroom patio doors and nothing at the main back patio door. Eddie was very interested in sniffing that wall/climbing plant. Hypothesis - she left the apartment from the wardrobe through bedroom patio door.

[AnneGuedes]

Yes I understand what you mean, it can get confusing. Yeah back means path side/tapas side. To get to the flower bed you have to descend the stairs into the garden so unless Madeleine fell from the balcony, she would have to be moved there before leaving IMO. Check coast is clear scenario.

p.s. also interesting scent indicated outside parent's bedroom patio doors and nothing at the main back patio door. Eddie was very interested in sniffing that wall/climbing plant. Hypothesis - she left the apartment from the wardrobe through bedroom patio door.

If Madeleine had fallen from the balcony, she should have remained there at least for an hour for Eddie to alert. A lot of time before finding her. And it could be an accident, sleepwalking, not really neglect.
The order wardrobe corner, balcony, flowerbed seems more plausible. It is possible that rain or cleaning water dragged the volatile molecules towards the flowerbed.

[pathfinder73]

If Madeleine had fallen from the balcony, she should have remained there at least for an hour for Eddie to alert. A lot of time before finding her. And it could be an accident, sleepwalking, not really neglect.
The order wardrobe corner, balcony, flowerbed seems more plausible. It is possible that rain or cleaning water dragged the volatile molecules towards the flowerbed.

I don't believe she fell from the balcony. Agree with you - wardrobe, balcony, flower bed. They took some of the climbing plant as possible evidence. I'm not sure but I haven't heard it was raining that night or morning of the 4th when they were all out searching. I wouldn't think it was water. If she went out the gate she may have been placed down briefly at the flower bed to check all was clear.

[John]

It is revealing that the GNR sniffer dogs didn't find her scent at the patio door.

How do you know that, John ?

Didn't all the dog handlers give statements to the effect that her scent was only detected from the front door.  Apologies if I got that wrong as it is a while since I read them.

A carried child will leave virtually no scent and by the time the GNR dogs arrived any residual scent there was was well gone, blown away by the breeze that morning.  My belief is that the scent the dogs detected hours after Madeleine was found to be missing was scent laid down by her as she walked out of the apartment with her parents.

Ergo, if she had merely walked out the patio door and down the steps to the road the sniffer dogs would have been on it instantly.

What Eddie found in the flower bed was probably cat poo.

[AnneGuedes]

she may have been placed down briefly at the flower bed to check all was clear.

This flowerbed had no flowers when I saw it, it's more leaf-mould that would stick.

[John]

The flower bed was visible from the tapas, no self deserving abductor would have risked that.

[AnneGuedes]

Didn't all the dog handlers give statements to the effect that her scent was only detected from the front door.
No. They likely ignored that the door-window had been left open and used like a door.

A carried child will leave virtually no scent
Why ? I spoke to a handler and he said the carried child would leave scent, a fortiori if barefoot.
and by the time the GNR dogs arrived any residual scent there was was well gone, blown away by the breeze that morning.
The first dog to pick up her scent did it at 2am.

 My belief is that the scent the dogs detected hours after Madeleine was found to be missing was scent laid down by her as she walked out of the apartment with her parents.
When ? And why would that scent be protected from the wind ?

Ergo, if she had merely walked out the patio door and down the steps to the road the sniffer dogs would have been on it instantly.
Perhaps but only if the door-window had been opened.We'll never know.

What Eddie found in the flower bed was probably cat poo.
A monkey escaped from casa Niobe. Perhaps it died there.

[AnneGuedes]

The flower bed was visible from the tapas,

Are you kidding ?

[pathfinder73]

That's what I was thinking. It is impossible to see the flower bed from the tapas bar.

[AnneGuedes]

That's what I was thinking. It is impossible to see the flower bed from the tapas bar.

It's also impossible to see from the tapas bar or from the bottom of the steps someone lying on the balcony, in front of the south bedroom.

[sadie]

How do you know that, John ?


Didn't all the dog handlers give statements to the effect that her scent was only detected from the front door.  Apologies if I got that wrong as it is a while since I read them.

A carried child will leave virtually no scent and by the time the GNR dogs arrived any residual scent there was was well gone, blown away by the breeze that morning.  My belief is that the scent the dogs detected hours after Madeleine was found to be missing was scent laid down by her as she walked out of the apartment with her parents.

Ergo, if she had merely walked out the patio door and down the steps to the road the sniffer dogs would have been on it instantly.

What Eddie found in the flower bed was probably cat poo.

Absolutely right John.  Anne you are off the mark on all these points.

However I think that Anne is correct that the garden bed was NOT in view of the Tapas restaurant because the walls and hedges to the walkway between the apartments and the tapas restaurant would have prevented that view.

Let's not forget that 5A was built out from a hill.  The front entrance was at ground level, but the rear was raised to almost first floor level.  Remember the steps up, eleven IIRC.  A modern house often has 13 steps up, between floors, and each is usually about seven inches high.  These steps seemed fairly normal in height so presumably the back of the patio was about 77" above the garden immediately below.

The garden then further sloped down towards the walkway

[Benice]

If Eddie alerted at the flower bed and knowing that Eddie could detect scent from a couple of feet underground then why didn't they dig down?