"Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean

[faithlilly]

Everyone and their dog knows the charges against Cm &.SM were dropped. What I was inferring was, given SM's evidence on the stand, and how the case ended, was it not possible that they could have reinstated the charges against both of them? I suspect they could have, but decided not to as SM finally told the truth, and thought CM had suffered enough.

Point taken re inadequate jury members, etc. But, you could apply this to all walks of life, right through to so-called professionals (lawyers, police, cjsw departments, to name a few). I'm not denying our judicial system is flawed to a certain degree. I'm also not suggesting that there are not gaps in my knowledge with regard to said judicial system and indeed this case.

If they had lied on the stand…and there was evidence of it….they would have been charged with perjury not perverting the course of justice.

[faithlilly]

The reason the Crown played what seemed like hardball with the Mitchells was because it was glaringly obvious that LM did it and they were trying to provide him with a false alibi. Moreover, they were having a tough time trying to prove it categorically, especially as they had no direct evidence. They had to fight fire with fire and use unorthodox tactics against a cunning and devious family (going toe to toe with them). I've said this several times on here. I think you are talking nonsense when you say that the perverting the course of justice charges frightened SM to the point he became scared to say anything. That he would just acquiesce and nod like a donkey and agree with the police when his own brother was facing a considerable amount of time in jail. Rubbish! All SM had to say was that he saw his wee brother. He didn't. A big deal was made about LM's whereabouts and that is extremely telling. The alibi was a dog's dinner. He and his mother were lying and the police sussed it out.

Shane faced up to 3 years in prison if found guilty of perverting the course of justice. For someone who had never been in trouble with the police before it’s not surprising that he was afraid. A criminal conviction could have altered the very course of his life.

In court Shane argued repeatedly that the investigation would not accept his answers, that they were putting words into his mouth and altering the responses he gave. He told the court that he did see Luke when he came down for tea but the police would not believe him because he had not said so in his first statement. The judge at trial said Shane’s interrogation by the police would have been unfair if Shane had been a suspect, which of course at this point he was, for perverting the course of justice.

[Mr Apples]

If they had lied on the stand…and there was evidence of it….they would have been charged with perjury not perverting the course of justice.

Jeez, could you please stop it. CM, given SM's evidence on the stand and the subsequent guilty verdict, could have faced perjury charges. I suspect they didn't go ahead with perjury charges because they felt she'd suffered enough. Or, perhaps, they didn't bother because it would have been extremely difficult to prove even though they knew she had lied during the investigation and was lying in court, too (though those photos and cctv footage of LM in that parka before the murder sure would be damning). Shane did not face perjury charges as he finally told the truth on the stand. I'm not sure wether they had enough evidence to charge SM with perverting the course of justice. SM made a statement on 03.07.03 saying he couldn't remember if his brother was in the house (heavily implying LM wasn't there), he then changed this statement he had given on 03.07.03, making an amended statement to police on 07.07.03, where he claimed he had actually saw Luke in kitchen at 1720 hrs mashing tatties and had spoken to him, describing him as being 'happy' at that time (SM conceded that it was his mother who told him to make this amended statement and, more significantly,  it was she who told SM exactly what to say in this amended statement on 07.07.03). On 14.04.04, when SM was arrested and charged, he told police later that day that he didn't didn't know if LM was in the house. Finally, in court, on January 2005, SM finally conceded on the stand that he, in fact, did NOT see his brother in the house that day between 1530 - 1730. Such a mess. He was lying. I suspect the police could have charged SM with perverting the course of justice, but felt he had already suffered enough, and gave him credit for finally telling the truth on the stand that his brother wasn't in the house at those times.

[faithlilly]

Jeez, could you please stop it. CM, given SM's evidence on the stand and the subsequent guilty verdict, could have faced perjury charges. I suspect they didn't go ahead with perjury charges because they felt she'd suffered enough. Or, perhaps, they didn't bother because it would have been extremely difficult to prove even though they knew she had lied during the investigation and was lying in court, too (though those photos and cctv footage of LM in that parka before the murder sure would be damning). Shane did not face perjury charges as he finally told the truth on the stand. I'm not sure wether they had enough evidence to charge SM with perverting the course of justice. SM made a statement on 03.07.03 saying he couldn't remember if his brother was in the house (heavily implying LM wasn't there), he then changed this statement he had given on 03.07.03, making an amended statement to police on 07.07.03, where he claimed he had actually saw Luke in kitchen at 1720 hrs mashing tatties and had spoken to him, describing him as being 'happy' at that time (SM conceded that it was his mother who told him to make this amended statement and, more significantly,  it was she who told SM exactly what to say in this amended statement on 07.07.03). On 14.04.04, when SM was arrested and charged, he told police later that day that he didn't didn't know if LM was in the house. Finally, in court, on January 2005, SM finally conceded on the stand that he, in fact, did NOT see his brother in the house that day between 1530 - 1730. Such a mess. He was lying. I suspect the police could have charged SM with perverting the course of justice, but felt he had already suffered enough, and gave him credit for finally telling the truth on the stand that his brother wasn't in the house at those times.

I have no intention of taking this dialogue any further as it really is a waste of time. You obviously have little knowledge of the Scottish legal system and even less of the case itself. It really is like playing chess with a pigeon.

[Mr Apples]

I have no intention of taking this dialogue any further as it really is a waste of time. You obviously have little knowledge of the Scottish legal system and even less of the case itself. It really is like playing chess with a pigeon.

This pigeon would like to ask a wee question, if you'll deign to respond:

 Could the Crown have reinstated the charges against CM & SM? I admit that there are gaps in my knowledge with regard to our legal system and this case.

Can anyone answer my question? Maybe John can when he's back on the boards.

[Nicholas]

Group member
I've been told info regarding GD & DD, they have a secret room under house, that they want no one to know about, that need looked at I think.

Ronnie Mothersole
A secret room
What does that even mean
does it mean now or then
Also it cant be a secret if someone knows about it

Sandra Lean
The way these houses are built, there is a cavity under the ground floor of many of them. There are steps up to the ground floor front door, so clearly, there is space from the ground to the level of the door. All I'm saying is, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that there would be space to some extent below the ground floor, depending on the slope of the land - the greater the slope, the greater the cavity.

[Nicholas]

14 year old psycho killer Aiden Fucci appears to have used a similar/same (?) knife used by psycho killer Luke Mitchell https://lawandcrime.com/crime/im-going-to-get-arrested-trove-of-prosecution-evidence-exhibits-released-on-eve-of-aiden-fucci-murder-trial/


‘Prior to being arrested for Bailey's death in May 2021, Fucci did not have any criminal history of arrests or convictions, but he did have some problems at school
https://eu.jacksonville.com/story/news/crime/2023/03/20/aiden-fuccis-history-at-issue-before-tristyn-bailey-sentencing/70025945007/

[Nicholas]

14 year old sadistic psycho killer Aiden Fucci and his parents

https://youtu.be/x6zXtuMPA0o

They knew their son was guilty of his murder of Tristyn Bailey - just like Corinne Mitchell knew her psycho killer son was guilty of his murder of Jodi Jones

[Nicholas]

14 year old psycho killer Aiden Fucci appears to have used a similar/same (?) knife used by psycho killer Luke Mitchell https://lawandcrime.com/crime/im-going-to-get-arrested-trove-of-prosecution-evidence-exhibits-released-on-eve-of-aiden-fucci-murder-trial/


‘Prior to being arrested for Bailey's death in May 2021, Fucci did not have any criminal history of arrests or convictions, but he did have some problems at school
https://eu.jacksonville.com/story/news/crime/2023/03/20/aiden-fuccis-history-at-issue-before-tristyn-bailey-sentencing/70025945007/

The 14 year old killer also appeared to fantasise (and verbalise) about murder and mutilation like sadistic psycho killer Luke Mitchell

‘A newly-released report includes interviews with friends of Mr Fucci, who say he often talked about murder and had recently said he planned to drag a random person into the woods and stab them.

According to the St. Johns County Sheriff’s Office report, the same friend also said that on occasion, Mr Fucci "would take his knife out and pretend to stab her with it”.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/tristyn-bailey-case-aiden-fucci-charged-b1885045.html

[Nicholas]

The 14 year old killer also appeared to fantasise (and verbalise) about murder and mutilation like sadistic psycho killer Luke Mitchell

‘A newly-released report includes interviews with friends of Mr Fucci, who say he often talked about murder and had recently said he planned to drag a random person into the woods and stab them.

According to the St. Johns County Sheriff’s Office report, the same friend also said that on occasion, Mr Fucci "would take his knife out and pretend to stab her with it”.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/tristyn-bailey-case-aiden-fucci-charged-b1885045.html

More similarities between the two teenage killers

‘The sheath of a Buck knife was discovered in his bedroom

[Myster]

More similarities between the two teenage killers

‘The sheath of a Buck knife was discovered in his bedroom

Both knives could be mistaken for twins...

[Myster]

Fucci's sentencing for those with hours to waste... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt9PAVy-Tfk

Just lock him up and throw away the key.

[Nicholas]

The rape was in 1985 and the DNA found on the victim was linked to another man who was already serving 60 years for another sexual assault which occurred in the same vicinity after the rape Avery was convicted of.

Therefore Avery certainly has been ruled out of the 1985 crime.

Don’t be silly now.

Steven Avery has not been ruled out of the 1985 brutal attack and rape

How did a single pubic hair of Gregory Allen get inside of the underwear of Penny Bernstein when she was digitally raped?

[Myster]

Aiden Fucci sentenced to a minimum of 25 years...

https://www.youtube.com/live/mTEOAqgNjN4?feature=share&t=2931

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11899049/Teen-killer-Aiden-Fucci-jailed-life-stabbing-13-year-old-cheerleader-114-times.html

[faithlilly]

Aiden Fucci sentenced to a minimum of 25 years...

https://www.youtube.com/live/mTEOAqgNjN4?feature=share&t=2931

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11899049/Teen-killer-Aiden-Fucci-jailed-life-stabbing-13-year-old-cheerleader-114-times.html

Fucci confessed didn’t he?