UK Justice Forum

News and current affairs => The Coronavirus and Covid-19 => Topic started by: John on April 13, 2020, 10:59:34 PM

Title: The scandal of the Covid-19 Care Home residents left to die!
Post by: John on April 13, 2020, 10:59:34 PM
It has been revealed that the number of Care Home residents who have succumbed to the Covid-19 virus in the UK has not been added to the official death list. This means that the number of Coronavirus-related deaths in the UK is much higher than the 10,000+ announced today.

The scandal in all of this though is not in the hidden numbers but the reason why these residents have died. These mostly elderly residents were for the most part never hospitalised or given the medical treatment they were entitled to. They were left to die because the government didn't want to fill the hospital wards with old folk. This is an utter disgrace imo and when this pandemic is over should rightly be the subject of a public inquiry.

These old dears were literally left to suffocate in their beds, they weren't even given the respect of having their deaths recorded and acknowledged as victims of Covid-19.
Title: Re: The scandal of the Covid-19 Care Home residents left to die!
Post by: Carana on April 14, 2020, 08:51:46 AM

Around half of deaths from COVID-19 are happening in care homes, according to data from some European countries.

Figures from five European countries suggest that care home residents have accounted for between 42% and 57% of all deaths related to COVID-19, the illness caused by the coronavirus.

..

The figures are contained in a report by academics at the London School of Economics, which focuses on Italy, Spain, France, Ireland and Belgium.

This would suggest that the daily figures announced by the UK government are vastly under-estimated, as they are only deaths in hospitals where a patient had tested positive for the virus.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-around-half-of-covid-19-deaths-are-in-care-homes-11972850


Title: Re: The scandal of the Covid-19 Care Home residents left to die!
Post by: Mr Gray on April 14, 2020, 09:07:50 AM
It has been revealed that the number of Care Home residents who have succumbed to the Covid-19 virus in the UK has not been added to the official death list. This means that the number of Coronavirus-related deaths in the UK is much higher than the 10,000+ announced today.

The scandal in all of this though is not in the hidden numbers but the reason why these residents have died. These mostly elderly residents were for the most part never hospitalised or given the medical treatment they were entitled to. They were left to die because the government didn't want to fill the hospital wards with old folk. This is an utter disgrace imo and when this pandemic is over should rightly be the subject of a public inquiry.

These old dears were literally left to suffocate in their beds, they weren't even given the respect of having their deaths recorded and acknowledged as victims of Covid-19.

It might be  a disgrace but i think there simply are not enough hospital beds...doctors...nurses ...to treat everyone.
Then we have the fact it seems that GPs are not going into care homes to see patients. So yes these elderly are being left to die..is there a choice...probably not.

as Carana said the number of deaths recorded is just those who have died in hospital....not the total figure
Title: Re: The scandal of the Covid-19 Care Home residents left to die!
Post by: Carana on April 14, 2020, 09:14:14 AM
There are two sets of figures for UK deaths. One source is the one we can see on the John Hopkins or the worldometer sites. Those figures concern the deaths of those who died in hospital and the numbers are collated at the end of the day (note: there is often a spike in numbers reported on Saturdays, and another one on Tuesdays with a reporting lag on Sundays and Mondays).

The other source is the ONS, which has statistics of all deaths. There is a lag of a few weeks in ONS virus-related reports as the process is longer.

(I'll dig out the ref links when I find them again.)

Title: Re: The scandal of the Covid-19 Care Home residents left to die!
Post by: Angelo222 on April 14, 2020, 10:30:04 AM
It might be  a disgrace but i think there simply are not enough hospital beds...doctors...nurses ...to treat everyone.
Then we have the fact it seems that GPs are not going into care homes to see patients. So yes these elderly are being left to die..is there a choice...probably not.

as Carana said the number of deaths recorded is just those who have died in hospital....not the total figure

They are effectively using euthanasia by the back door.
Title: Re: The scandal of the Covid-19 Care Home residents left to die!
Post by: Mr Gray on April 14, 2020, 11:00:52 AM
They are effectively using euthanasia by the back door.

Euthenasia is when people are deliberately killed.   Doctors have been doing that in the UK for years.  Doctors are having to make choices now and it may get worse. You have one ventilator and two patients. Ones 40 with three kids...the others 95 with multiple health problems...a poor qulity of life and life expectancy of 6 months. Who gets the ventilator
Title: Re: The scandal of the Covid-19 Care Home residents left to die!
Post by: mrswah on April 14, 2020, 11:53:32 AM
Euthenasia is when people are deliberately killed.   Doctors have been doing that in the UK for years.  Doctors are having to make choices now and it may get worse. You have one ventilator and two patients. Ones 40 with three kids...the others 95 with multiple health problems...a poor qulity of life and life expectancy of 6 months. Who gets the ventilator

I agree with you.  However, the point re the care homes is that the patients were never seen by a doctor, assessed, tested, or given any treatment---------I assume.
Title: Re: The scandal of the Covid-19 Care Home residents left to die!
Post by: Mr Gray on April 14, 2020, 12:11:45 PM
I agree with you.  However, the point re the care homes is that the patients were never seen by a doctor, assessed, tested, or given any treatment---------I assume.

I dont think there is any treatment unfortunately.....antibioitics if the patient  has pneumonia. Many are also DNR
Title: Re: The scandal of the Covid-19 Care Home residents left to die!
Post by: Angelo222 on April 14, 2020, 03:45:42 PM
Euthenasia is when people are deliberately killed.   Doctors have been doing that in the UK for years.  Doctors are having to make choices now and it may get worse. You have one ventilator and two patients. Ones 40 with three kids...the others 95 with multiple health problems...a poor qulity of life and life expectancy of 6 months. Who gets the ventilator

Old people are being deliberately left to die in nursing homes and that is a national disgrace.  Care home managers are being told not to call an ambulance.
Title: Re: The scandal of the Covid-19 Care Home residents left to die!
Post by: Mr Gray on April 14, 2020, 03:55:56 PM
Old people are being deliberately left to die in nursing homes and that is a national disgrace.  Care home managers are being told not to call an ambulance.

It's an international problem.  There is not really any solution for care homes at the moment
Title: Re: The scandal of the Covid-19 Care Home residents left to die!
Post by: Brietta on April 14, 2020, 04:20:07 PM
I agree with you.  However, the point re the care homes is that the patients were never seen by a doctor, assessed, tested, or given any treatment---------I assume.

Mrswah, in my opinion until we have adequate testing in place we are stumbling about in the dark and until care homes are supplying adequate personal protection for workers we are putting them and their residents at enormous personal risk.

I cannot imagine what the psychological effect will be on carers who cope with the deaths of their residents in the normal course of things in the present situation when multiple deaths are occurring https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11326574/coronavirus-care-home-deaths-scotland/

They would have to be made of stone not to have fears for themselves and their families and I hope their valour is remembered in better times when it comes to paying them their due.

As an aside ... it is being brought home to us exactly how much our Health Service relies on ethic minorities and immigrants which is also a thought to store up for the future.
Title: Re: The scandal of the Covid-19 Care Home residents left to die!
Post by: John on April 14, 2020, 10:56:40 PM
The MSM have at last caught on...

Lack of coronavirus testing in care homes is an 'unfolding horror' that could lead to tens of thousands of forgotten victims, experts warn - amid claims 'hidden epidemic' has already cost 4,000 lives!

A ‘hidden epidemic’ of coronavirus in care homes may have cost 4,000 lives, experts warned last night.

They believe deaths are being hugely under-reported because of a lack of testing.

GPs are also sometimes reluctant to write Covid-19 on death certificates and figures from care homes are not included in the official daily toll.

The latest report from the Office for National Statistics says the virus killed 217 care home residents in England and Wales in the two weeks up to April 3.

But industry figures say the true count is much higher – potentially 4,000 since the outbreak started.

(https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/9M7g295ahc-AOjicvw4qnw/https/media.fyre.co/zY56Jq5SOy1VQpH4vahA_p-01_1586898156_001.png)


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8219227/4-000-feared-dead-care-homes-Coronavirus-death-toll-shockingly-underreported.html
Title: Re: The scandal of the Covid-19 Care Home residents left to die!
Post by: Carana on April 15, 2020, 11:51:04 AM
https://www.hsj.co.uk/coronavirus/government-has-misled-public-over-uk-deaths-being-lower-than-france/7027404.article
Title: Re: The scandal of the Covid-19 Care Home residents left to die!
Post by: Carana on April 15, 2020, 12:51:11 PM
Mrswah, in my opinion until we have adequate testing in place we are stumbling about in the dark and until care homes are supplying adequate personal protection for workers we are putting them and their residents at enormous personal risk.

I cannot imagine what the psychological effect will be on carers who cope with the deaths of their residents in the normal course of things in the present situation when multiple deaths are occurring https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11326574/coronavirus-care-home-deaths-scotland/

They would have to be made of stone not to have fears for themselves and their families and I hope their valour is remembered in better times when it comes to paying them their due.

As an aside ... it is being brought home to us exactly how much our Health Service relies on ethic minorities and immigrants which is also a thought to store up for the future.

It may hit some now, and many once the adrenaline wears off... I hope that mental health support is / will be in place for them. ;(
Title: Re: The scandal of the Covid-19 Care Home residents left to die!
Post by: Carana on April 16, 2020, 10:27:50 AM
4. Testing remains well below UK target

Health Secretary Matt Hancock has set a target of 100,000 tests per day by the end of April - a big jump from the previous target of 25,000 per day by mid-April.

On Wednesday, the government reported that nearly 16,000 coronavirus tests were carried out in the preceding 24 hours and in total nearly 314,000 people in the UK have been tested.

Mr Hancock said the number of daily tests being carried out had been flat over the last couple of days because there was not enough demand among hospital patients and NHS staff, rather than not enough capacity.

Testing is now being expanded to social care staff and care home residents, he added.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51768274

At the risk of sounding like Lord Sugar, if there was slack in hospitals, why weren't they (insert preferred expletive) sent to where they were needed?

Title: Re: The scandal of the Covid-19 Care Home residents left to die!
Post by: Admin on April 16, 2020, 11:53:11 AM
4. Testing remains well below UK target

Health Secretary Matt Hancock has set a target of 100,000 tests per day by the end of April - a big jump from the previous target of 25,000 per day by mid-April.

On Wednesday, the government reported that nearly 16,000 coronavirus tests were carried out in the preceding 24 hours and in total nearly 314,000 people in the UK have been tested.

Mr Hancock said the number of daily tests being carried out had been flat over the last couple of days because there was not enough demand among hospital patients and NHS staff, rather than not enough capacity.

Testing is now being expanded to social care staff and care home residents, he added.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51768274

At the risk of sounding like Lord Sugar, if there was slack in hospitals, why weren't they (insert preferred expletive) sent to where they were needed?

The sad truth is that our government is lying through their teeth to us all. There will NEVER be large scale testing of the population at large, there will not be a surge in recruitment to care homes. The entire situation is one almighty mess, the government are banking on the fact that in a few weeks time we will all be so relieved that we are still alive and getting back to our normal lives that their promises and betrayals will be long forgotten.
Title: Re: The scandal of the Covid-19 Care Home residents left to die!
Post by: Mr Gray on April 16, 2020, 12:51:37 PM
The sad truth is that our government is lying through their teeth to us all. There will NEVER be large scale testing of the population at large, there will not be a surge in recruitment to care homes. The entire situation is one almighty mess, the government are banking on the fact that in a few weeks time we will all be so relieved that we are still alive and getting back to our normal lives that their promises and betrayals will be long forgotten.


Its very easy to blame the govt. They probably dont make any decisions...the decisions being made by the scientific experts. This is something that has never happened before so its not surprising all govts are finding it difficult. The Uk seem to be doing better than  Italy, Spain and France....so they cant be that bad
Title: Re: The scandal of the Covid-19 Care Home residents left to die!
Post by: Carana on April 16, 2020, 02:15:58 PM
Hmmm.

Davel, advisers advise, governments decide. They can choose to listen... or not.

This particular virus is new, indeed, but there have been several pandemic simulations. The UK is not the only country that doesn't appear to have integrated the reports, but is one of them.

I'm not sure that some of these governments actually grasped the difference between an edpidemic and a pandemic until they were all scrambling to bid for scarce equipment / supplies and wondering why everyone else was doing the same.

Title: Re: The scandal of the Covid-19 Care Home residents left to die!
Post by: Mr Gray on April 16, 2020, 02:29:52 PM
Hmmm.

Davel, advisers advise, governments decide. They can choose to listen... or not.

This particular virus is new, indeed, but there have been several pandemic simulations. The UK is not the only country that doesn't appear to have integrated the reports, but is one of them.

I'm not sure that some of these governments actually grasped the difference between an edpidemic and a pandemic until they were all scrambling to bid for scarce equipment / supplies and wondering why everyone else was doing the same.

On what basis can the govt not listen to experts... What expertise do they have to come up with strategies. As for the govt being slow to act... Thisvus what Richard Horton... Editor of the lancet and one if the govt biggest critics was saying at the end of Jan..


24 Jan
A call for caution please. Media are escalating anxiety by talking of a “killer virus” + “growing fears”. In truth, from what we currently know, 2019-nCoV has moderate transmissibility and relatively low pathogenicity. There is no reason to foster panic with exaggerated language
Title: Re: The scandal of the Covid-19 Care Home residents left to die!
Post by: Mr Gray on April 16, 2020, 02:38:27 PM
Hmmm.

Davel, advisers advise, governments decide. They can choose to listen... or not.

This particular virus is new, indeed, but there have been several pandemic simulations. The UK is not the only country that doesn't appear to have integrated the reports, but is one of them.

I'm not sure that some of these governments actually grasped the difference between an edpidemic and a pandemic until they were all scrambling to bid for scarce equipment / supplies and wondering why everyone else was doing the same.

The WHO didn't declare it a pandemic until mid march
Title: Re: The scandal of the Covid-19 Care Home residents left to die!
Post by: Swertigo Virl on April 16, 2020, 05:43:45 PM
Hmmm.

Davel, advisers advise, governments decide. They can choose to listen... or not.

This particular virus is new, indeed, but there have been several pandemic simulations. The UK is not the only country that doesn't appear to have integrated the reports, but is one of them.

I'm not sure that some of these governments actually grasped the difference between an edpidemic and a pandemic until they were all scrambling to bid for scarce equipment / supplies and wondering why everyone else was doing the same.
Is there any evidence that the government ignored advice from its own health adviors?
Title: Re: The scandal of the Covid-19 Care Home residents left to die!
Post by: Eleanor on April 17, 2020, 11:51:22 AM

This really worries me.  God knows how many old people are locked up in care homes from which they cannot escape.

But from the minute we abandon old people then whatever damaged society we still have left will never recover.

Only the young will survive.  And then guess what.  They will be old one day, but without any knowledge that society will care for them.  So they will have absolutely nothing to depend upon.

Have a good life you all.
Title: Re: The scandal of the Covid-19 Care Home residents left to die!
Post by: mrswah on April 17, 2020, 12:00:07 PM
This really worries me.  God knows how many old people are locked up in care homes from which they cannot escape.

But from the minute we abandon old people then whatever damaged society we still have left will never recover.

Only the young will survive.  And then guess what.  They will be old one day, but without any knowledge that society will care for them.  So they will have absolutely nothing to depend upon.

Have a good life you all.

I believe there are even more elderly people living in their own homes, relying on visiting carers.  Between visits, they are entirely on their own.
Title: Re: The scandal of the Covid-19 Care Home residents left to die!
Post by: Eleanor on April 17, 2020, 12:29:14 PM
I believe there are even more elderly people living in their own homes, relying on visiting carers.  Between visits, they are entirely on their own.

There is this as well, of course.  What happened?  When did we stop caring?

I cannot find the words to express how I feel about this.  I am 80 years old and actually perfectly capable of surviving on my own.  I did this for nearly 30 years.  My youngest son lives with me now, but for the benefit of both of us.  But some old people can't.

My dependence on The Internet is interesting, but what else are we all doing?
Title: Re: The scandal of the Covid-19 Care Home residents left to die!
Post by: Carana on April 21, 2020, 04:50:25 PM
Is there any evidence that the government ignored advice from its own health adviors?

Several countries, including the UK, appear to have largely swept the post-mortems of their pandemic simulations under the carpet.

I'm still trying to find what, if any, action was taken early in January.

I can understand the need to avoid public panic, but BJ stating on TV (March 3) that he'd just visited a hospital where he believed some COVID patients were in care (it seems there weren't) and that he saw no reason to stop shaking hands might have been a slight step too far in the opposite direction....
Title: Re: The scandal of the Covid-19 Care Home residents left to die!
Post by: Carana on April 21, 2020, 09:05:25 PM
If I were in a care home, or even at home, and having difficulty breathing and therefore likely to die within days, I'm not sure what I'd want.

If I had a reasonable chance of surviving, yes, I'd want to be taken to hospital.

But, if my condition made that hugely unlikely, and that I would die anyway within a few days.... where?

I'm not in that situation fpr the moment, but anyone could be.

I might opt to die with at least someone I know who could hold my hand, as opposed to feeling totally alone and knowing (hearing) that staff are waiting for me to die so that someone else can take my place.