UK Justice Forum

Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Mark Alexander was in September 2010 convicted of the murder of his elderly reclusive father Samuel (70), an Egyptian-born former University lecturer. => Topic started by: Daisy on April 27, 2018, 08:30:09 AM

Title: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: Daisy on April 27, 2018, 08:30:09 AM
You asked me yesterday had I read everything, to which I've now done and sorry to say but Mark comes across like a con artist.

I know you sussed this in Jeremy Bamber a while back Daisy. I think in time you'll do the same with Mark.

Yes I admit I was conned by Jeremy even if only about the money.

I also believed until the end that Simon Hall was innocent.  The evidence didnít point to him. Whose DNA was on the murder weapon? It wasnít Simons. Also the footprint outside the window he climbed in was of a much smaller shoe size. I often wonder why he confessed so near to the end of his sentence. He could have been released and got on with his life as most people believed he was innocent.
Title: Re: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2018, 09:08:29 AM
Yes I admit I was conned by Jeremy even if only about the money.

I also believed until the end that Simon Hall was innocent.  The evidence didnít point to him. Whose DNA was on the murder weapon? It wasnít Simons. Also the footprint outside the window he climbed in was of a much smaller shoe size. I often wonder why he confessed so near to the end of his sentence. He could have been released and got on with his life as most people believed he was innocent.

We are going off topic Daisy and will be chastised by the moderators  8(0(* but I'm more than happy to debate either of these cases with you.

Are you saying you still believe Bamber to be innocent, even after he attempted to con you?

The police originally believed the murder of JA had been sexually motivated. Maybe the reason they chose to go with the theory of it being a burglery gone wrong was because it would be easier to prove? Who knows.

There was no DNA found on the murder weapon as far as I am aware. During Simon Hall's confession he asserted he had taken his socks off and used these as gloves. He claimed he looked for the "biggest" knife from his victims drawer in order to "scare her?"

Simon Hall wore office shoes on the night he murdered. His mother lied about the chunky boots. He had small feet but did wear varying sizes at varying times.

Simon Hall confessed because he could no longer sustain his lies. He was extremely angry with me for badgering him over his wealth of discrepancies and deceitfulness. Add to this the fact he was also being exposed by his older brother, and others - those who know him best - at the material time. The Zenith burglary, drug taking, alleged historic sexual abuse claims, sexual promiscuity, authoritarian parenting, twisted reciprocal relationships, the list goes on Daisy.
Title: Re: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: Daisy on April 27, 2018, 09:20:22 AM
We are going off topic Daisy and will be chastised by the moderators  8(0(* but I'm more than happy to debate either of these cases with you.

Are you saying you still believe Bamber to be innocent, even after he attempted to con you?

I really donít know as I wasnít there when the family were murdered. All I know is that Jeremy hurt me when all I tried to do was help him. I am just not sure of his innocence/guilt.
Title: Re: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2018, 09:28:43 AM
I really donít know as I wasnít there when the family were murdered. All I know is that Jeremy hurt me when all I tried to do was help him. I am just not sure of his innocence/guilt.

Thanks for being open. These individuals are hurtful Daisy; more often than not because they have been hurt in their pasts.
Title: Re: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2018, 10:18:43 AM
I really donít know as I wasnít there when the family were murdered. All I know is that Jeremy hurt me when all I tried to do was help him. I am just not sure of his innocence/guilt.

Thanks for being open. These individuals are hurtful Daisy; more often than not because they have been hurt in their pasts.

Their patterns of behaviour in all of their relationships are idealise, devalue and discard. Jeremy Bamber, as you know, discarded you when you were of no more use to him. But that won't stop him from coming back to you and starting the cycle all over again.

Same applies to Mark. These types of individuals can appear to idealise for years before the devalue and discard process begins. But it will happen eventually and round and round it will go..

http://psychopathsandlove.com/stages-of-the-psychopathic-relationship/
Title: Re: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2018, 10:34:46 AM
I really donít know as I wasnít there when the family were murdered. All I know is that Jeremy hurt me when all I tried to do was help him. I am just not sure of his innocence/guilt.

Can I ask Daisy, after Bamber hurt you, what made you decide to give Mark Alexander the benefit of the doubt?

How is it you got involved in these 2 cases in the first place?
Title: Re: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2018, 11:21:29 AM
Yes I admit I was conned by Jeremy even if only about the money.

I also believed until the end that Simon Hall was innocent.  The evidence didnít point to him. Whose DNA was on the murder weapon? It wasnít Simons. Also the footprint outside the window he climbed in was of a much smaller shoe size. I often wonder why he confessed so near to the end of his sentence. He could have been released and got on with his life as most people believed he was innocent.

If you are doubting Simon Hall's confession and are alluding to me making things up, have at it Daisy.

If you think this stance supports your reasoning in the Mark Alexander case, you are only fooling yourself.

Simon Hall chose to confess when he did and he chose to end his life when he did.

He was a dangerous and highly disordered individual.

He'd publicly maintained innocence for over a decade, choosing to keep hidden his real personality.

When his real personality came out he could no longer keep up the charade.
Title: Re: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: Daisy on April 27, 2018, 06:36:45 PM
Can I ask Daisy, after Bamber hurt you, what made you decide to give Mark Alexander the benefit of the doubt?

How is it you got involved in these 2 cases in the first place?

One you support a MOJ you just get bitten by the bug. I did so much work for Jeremy and felt I had something to offer another person. I went on the MOJUK site and looked at other cases. I wrote to Mark and it went from there.

The reason I got involved is because I hope others would fight for me if I was ever in their position. I also have an inquisitive mind although not as intelligent or knowledgeable as you but I do my best to help these people.
Title: Re: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2018, 09:16:52 PM
One you support a MOJ you just get bitten by the bug. I did so much work for Jeremy and felt I had something to offer another person. I went on the MOJUK site and looked at other cases. I wrote to Mark and it went from there.

The reason I got involved is because I hope others would fight for me if I was ever in their position. I also have an inquisitive mind although not as intelligent or knowledgeable as you but I do my best to help these people.

Thanks for your reply Daisy.

Title: Re: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2018, 12:55:28 PM
One you support a MOJ you just get bitten by the bug. I did so much work for Jeremy and felt I had something to offer another person. I went on the MOJUK site and looked at other cases. I wrote to Mark and it went from there.

The reason I got involved is because I hope others would fight for me if I was ever in their position. I also have an inquisitive mind although not as intelligent or knowledgeable as you but I do my best to help these people.

You refer to the MOJUK website Daisy http://www.mojuk.org.uk

Has it ever occurred to you that those behind MOJUK aren't interested in innocence or guilt but are focused on technicalities of law?

What do you really know about those people behind these sites? Could they too be personality disordered?

Why didn't you write to Gary Dobson or David Norris for example? http://www.mojuk.org.uk/MOJUK2012/DobsonNorris.html

""Gary Dobson and David Norris Conviction an abuse of 'Due Process'
'MOJUK is not concerned with the 'innocence or guilt' of those in jail. We are concerned only that they have been brought to trial and convicted through 'due process of law'. This since its' foundation has been the corner stone of MOJUK's 'Raison d'Ítre:


Incidentally MOJUK promote a lot of BS; an example is inside doubt, set up by Stephanie Bon http://www.mojuk.org.uk/justice/Campaign%20leaflett.pdf
Title: Re: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: Daisy on April 28, 2018, 01:31:09 PM
You refer to the MOJUK website Daisy http://www.mojuk.org.uk

Has it ever occurred to you that those behind MOJUK aren't interested in innocence or guilt but are focused on technicalities of law?

What do you really know about those people behind these sites? Could they too be personality disordered?

Why didn't you write to Gary Dobson or David Norris for example? http://www.mojuk.org.uk/MOJUK2012/DobsonNorris.html

""Gary Dobson and David Norris Conviction an abuse of 'Due Process'
'MOJUK is not concerned with the 'innocence or guilt' of those in jail. We are concerned only that they have been brought to trial and convicted through 'due process of law'. This since its' foundation has been the corner stone of MOJUK's 'Raison d'Ítre:


Incidentally MOJUK promote a lot of BS; an example is inside doubt, set up by Stephanie Bon http://www.mojuk.org.uk/justice/Campaign%20leaflett.pdf

I didnít know that but at the same time they publish cases of those who are maintaining innocence and it is up to the reader if they want to contact anyone.

Gary Dobson and David Norris are clearly guilty and I would never want anything to do with them.  I looked at several cases and dismissed them before contacting Mark.

I have had contact over the years with  John O who runs this site and distributes Inside Time to prisoners out of his own pocket.  He relies on the generosity of readers to donate if they wish.

I canít see that the leaflet by Stephanie Bon is BS.  I emailed her a lot when she ran the Simon Hall website and found her very pleasant. I think Simons family treated her badly after all her hard work.  When Simon married you I sent an email of congratulations to her!! How embarrassing.
Title: Re: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2018, 02:33:50 PM
I think Simons family treated her badly after all her hard work.  When Simon married you I sent an email of congratulations to her!! How embarrassing.

What do you mean "Simon's family treated her badly after all her hard work?"

How do you know Simon halls family treated her badly? Did she tell you this?

In what way did they treat her badly?
Title: Re: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2018, 02:38:32 PM
I didnít know that but at the same time they publish cases of those who are maintaining innocence and it is up to the reader if they want to contact anyone.

Gary Dobson and David Norris are clearly guilty and I would never want anything to do with them.  I looked at several cases and dismissed them before contacting Mark.

I have had contact over the years with  John O who runs this site and distributes Inside Time to prisoners out of his own pocket.  He relies on the generosity of readers to donate if they wish.

I canít see that the leaflet by Stephanie Bon is BS.  I emailed her a lot when she ran the Simon Hall website and found her very pleasant. I think Simons family treated her badly after all her hard work.  When Simon married you I sent an email of congratulations to her!! How embarrassing.

How did you learn Simon Hall had married?

And why do you say you were embarrassed for sending Stephanie Bon an email of congratulations?

You stated:

When Simon married you I sent an email of congratulations to her!! How embarrassing.
Title: Re: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2018, 02:53:50 PM
I didnít know that but at the same time they publish cases of those who are maintaining innocence and it is up to the reader if they want to contact anyone.

Gary Dobson and David Norris are clearly guilty and I would never want anything to do with them.  I looked at several cases and dismissed them before contacting Mark.

I have had contact over the years with  John O who runs this site and distributes Inside Time to prisoners out of his own pocket.  He relies on the generosity of readers to donate if they wish.

I canít see that the leaflet by Stephanie Bon is BS.  I emailed her a lot when she ran the Simon Hall website and found her very pleasant. I think Simons family treated her badly after all her hard work.  When Simon married you I sent an email of congratulations to her!! How embarrassing.

So you are saying you've been involved with alleged MOJ's for over 10/11 years or more?
Title: Re: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2018, 02:57:53 PM
Yes I admit I was conned by Jeremy even if only about the money..

"If only about the money?" Have you not considered your judgement Daisy?
Title: Re: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2018, 03:12:13 PM
I canít see that the leaflet by Stephanie Bon is BS.  I emailed her a lot when she ran the Simon Hall website and found her very pleasant. I think Simons family treated her badly after all her hard work.  When Simon married you I sent an email of congratulations to her!! How embarrassing.

I find this statement really odd Daisy?!

However, you'll be pleased to hear Stephanie Bon is engaged to Simon Hall's older brother Shaun.

Her hard work paid off and she obviously wasn't put off by Simon Hall's families bad treatment of her or indeed by a possible faulty gene or by Simon Hall's allegations made against his brother before he confessed to murder.

"Hall, jailed for killing Joan Albert, 79, claimed his innocence until 2013 when he said he was "seriously violent" and there had been "sexual aspects" to the murder, the inquest heard."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-suffolk-36462066?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=575ee454e4b0fdc373272b4d%26That%27s%20it%20from%20Suffolk%20Live%262016-06-13T17%3A00%3A15.248Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:c0db5592-48da-4aba-bee9-667197261b43&pinned_post_asset_id=575ee454e4b0fdc373272b4d&pinned_post_type=share
Title: Re: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: Daisy on April 28, 2018, 03:49:57 PM
If you are doubting Simon Hall's confession and are alluding to me making things up, have at it Daisy.

If you think this stance supports your reasoning in the Mark Alexander case, you are only fooling yourself.

Simon Hall chose to confess when he did and he chose to end his life when he did.

He was a dangerous and highly disordered individual.

He'd publicly maintained innocence for over a decade, choosing to keep hidden his real personality.

When his real personality came out he could no longer keep up the charade.

No I donít think you are making anything up. I assumed like lots of others that maybe a prison officer forced him to confess. We have heard about suicides in prison which have been suspicious.

Simon conned a lot of people including his MP. It just shows that most of us are trusting and see the good in others.
Title: Re: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: Daisy on April 28, 2018, 03:53:35 PM
What do you mean "Simon's family treated her badly after all her hard work?"

How do you know Simon halls family treated her badly? Did she tell you this?

In what way did they treat her badly?

Itís a long time ago now and I canít remember everything. Didnít Stephanie work with Simon?  As soon as she was charged I believe she set up the website highlighting this as a MOJ. I just remember her posting on the site that his family had shunned her. I think the site closed down eventually.  Please correct me if I am wrong.
Title: Re: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: Daisy on April 28, 2018, 03:58:38 PM
I find this statement really odd Daisy?!

However, you'll be pleased to hear Stephanie Bon is engaged to Simon Hall's older brother Shaun.

Her hard work paid off and she obviously wasn't put off by Simon Hall's families bad treatment of her or indeed by a possible faulty gene or by Simon Hall's allegations made against his brother before he confessed to murder.

"Hall, jailed for killing Joan Albert, 79, claimed his innocence until 2013 when he said he was "seriously violent" and there had been "sexual aspects" to the murder, the inquest heard."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-36517291


Wouldnít you be embarrassed if you congratulated the wrong person on getting married. Itís like asking someone when their baby is due and they reply ď no I am just fat!Ē

Gosh I havenít heard her name mentioned for years so had no idea she was engaged to Simons brother.
Title: Re: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: Daisy on April 28, 2018, 04:04:53 PM
We are going off topic Daisy and will be chastised by the moderators  8(0(* but I'm more than happy to debate either of these cases with you.

Are you saying you still believe Bamber to be innocent, even after he attempted to con you?

The police originally believed the murder of JA had been sexually motivated. Maybe the reason they chose to go with the theory of it being a burglery gone wrong was because it would be easier to prove? Who knows.

There was no DNA found on the murder weapon as far as I am aware. During Simon Hall's confession he asserted he had taken his socks off and used these as gloves. He claimed he looked for the "biggest" knife from his victims drawer in order to "scare her?"

Simon Hall wore office shoes on the night he murdered. His mother lied about the chunky boots. He had small feet but did wear varying sizes at varying times.

Simon Hall confessed because he could no longer sustain his lies. He was extremely angry with me for badgering him over his wealth of discrepancies and deceitfulness. Add to this the fact he was also being exposed by his older brother, and others - those who know him best - at the material time. The Zenith burglary, drug taking, alleged historic sexual abuse claims, sexual promiscuity, authoritarian parenting, twisted reciprocal relationships, the list goes on Daisy.


I can never know if Jeremy is guilty as I wasnít there.

Regarding Simon I am sure I read in the press that another house in Capel St Mary was burgled and the knife was found in JAís house.

Didnít a carpet cleaner disappear shortly after? Wasnít his body found some years later in a Norwich car park? I thought the family asked for a sample of his DNA as they thought he may have been the murderer?
Title: Re: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: John on April 28, 2018, 10:07:14 PM
As Stephanie knows, I was an avid supporter of Simon and was quite prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt but that all changed the moment I heard about the burglary at the Zenith double glazing business in Ipswich.  When I spoke to a director at Zenith he was totally in the dark about the burglary and who did it, I found that appalling.

I later spoke with people who visited Simon when he was moved to the open prison and who knew him extremely well and they were in complete denial, I think the revelation was just too much for them to accept. I understand they still don't believe that Simon could have murdered Joan Albert.

I too have always wondered why he decided to come clean after all that time in jail and when he was on the verge of being paroled. Could it be that he was being blackmailed by someone who knew the truth of what occurred that fateful night?

A big question for me too is why were others not prosecuted.  Burglary, perjury and conspiracy to pervert the course of justice comes to mind for openers.

Title: Re: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2018, 11:18:26 PM
As Stephanie knows, I was an avid supporter of Simon and was quite prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt but that all changed the moment I heard about the burglary at the Zenith double glazing business in Ipswich.  When I spoke to a director at Zenith he was totally in the dark about the burglary and who did it, I found that appalling

Not sure what you mean by this John, can you clarify?

Title: Re: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2018, 11:24:01 PM
I later spoke with people who visited Simon when he was moved to the open prison and who knew him extremely well and they were in complete denial, I think the revelation was just too much for them to accept. I understand they still don't believe that Simon could have murdered Joan Albert.

Again, you'll need to clarify.

Following Simon Hall's suicide, disclosures were made by the prison service, including lists of all his prison visitors
dating way back. Other than Ray Hollingsworth, I've no idea who you mean?

Truth is sometimes too much to bare for some people John and denial feels more comfortable.
Title: Re: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2018, 11:38:02 PM
I too have always wondered why he decided to come clean after all that time in jail and when he was on the verge of being paroled. Could it be that he was being blackmailed by someone who knew the truth of what occurred that fateful night?

A big question for me too is why were others not prosecuted.  Burglary, perjury and conspiracy to pervert the course of justice comes to mind for openers.

Things started to unravel following the Zenith burglary omission. However just prior to this, Simon Hall and his then prison solicitor falsified his Guittard application; against my objections. I never saw the actual application but was told it was a tick box exercise. I wasn't happy with the fact he was prepared to lie and pretend he had the support of his immediate family, when he didn't, they were estranged.

Blackmailed by who? His immediate family?

Hall was notified in writing that no further action would be taken with regards the Zenith burglary omission.

I do not understand why others weren't prosecuted either, especially considering their appalling behaviour following the confession and in the build up to the inquest. And you've seen a part of the letter I posted here towards the end of last year, dated 2010. I would say that's supportive of perjury wouldn't you? 
Title: Re: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: Nicholas on April 29, 2018, 10:10:05 AM
I can’t see that the leaflet by Stephanie Bon is BS.  I emailed her a lot when she ran the Simon Hall website and found her very pleasant. I think Simons family treated her badly after all her hard work.  When Simon married you I sent an email of congratulations to her!! How embarrassing.

I did speak to Stephanie Bon back then but she was hysterical and having some sort of breakdown? She told me many things, including disturbing things about Shaun Hall. She also told me if she ever saw him in the street she would run him over. She appeared to hate the Hall's - all of them!

I didn't recognise then that it was highly probable she was another victim of Simon Hall's.
Title: Re: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: John on April 30, 2018, 01:01:37 PM
Please keep comments current.  TY
Title: Re: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: Daisy on April 30, 2018, 08:00:27 PM
"If only about the money?" Have you not considered your judgement Daisy?

I obviously made a wrong judgement but we don’t always know this until we get to know someone. Some people are like an open book and others are not.
Title: Re: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: Nicholas on May 01, 2018, 08:39:31 AM
I obviously made a wrong judgement but we donít always know this until we get to know someone. Some people are like an open book and others are not.

You should have complained to this chap Daisy about Bamber conning you https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/transparency-of-the-parole-board-and-victim-support, after all you are yet another victim of his long list of victims.

I don't think the Governors of these prisons do an awful lot about complaints made to them by members of the public because ultimately it doesn't look good on the Governor in question if their prisoners are behaving as though they are above the law.

Justice Secretary announces ambitious first steps in overhaul of Parole Board https://www.gov.uk/government/news/justice-secretary-announces-ambitious-first-steps-in-overhaul-of-parole-board
Title: Re: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: Angelo222 on May 02, 2018, 03:41:43 PM
Please keep comments general and avoid making personal criticisms.
Title: Re: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: Real justice on May 10, 2018, 07:38:02 PM
I obviously made a wrong judgement but we donít always know this until we get to know someone. Some people are like an open book and others are not.
Which we are all guilty of Daisy, I myself got took in by my daughters husband.  Just like to say, I admired you so much when you posted your letter about Bamber and it confirmed what I had been told about him.  I had been in touch with two people who worked at Full Sutton.  I never fully disclosed what they said only basics, I think your dammed if you do and dammed if you donít.  Some posters on the blue forum didnít treat your first hand knowledge of Bamber well, they donít like the truth Daisy, they would have done anything to discredit you and not to be taken serious.  Well done you and the work you do for others.
Title: Re: General discussion on supporting potential MOJ cases.
Post by: Daisy on May 10, 2018, 10:08:49 PM
Which we are all guilty of Daisy, I myself got took in by my daughters husband.  Just like to say, I admired you so much when you posted your letter about Bamber and it confirmed what I had been told about him.  I had been in touch with two people who worked at Full Sutton.  I never fully disclosed what they said only basics, I think your dammed if you do and dammed if you donít.  Some posters on the blue forum didnít treat your first hand knowledge of Bamber well, they donít like the truth Daisy, they would have done anything to discredit you and not to be taken serious.  Well done you and the work you do for others.

Thank you for your kind words. It is really appreciated. I never posted on Blue so was not aware of your connection with Full Sutton. Are u able to tell me what you posted? I was under the impression that Jeremy was well liked by the staff there. Certainly when I visited they used to chat to him and so did the other prisoners. I would be interested to hear your story.