Author Topic: The Government's mishandling of the Covid-19 epidemic.  (Read 5909 times)

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Offline Angelo222

The Government's mishandling of the Covid-19 epidemic.
« on: May 16, 2020, 09:08:58 PM »
A horryfying extract from a piece in The Daily Telegraph. If you have the time, read it - as this condemnation of the Government comes from its biggest fans. It is truly shocking.

From Ambrose Evans-Pritchard who is International Business Editor of The Daily Telegraph., Evans Pritchard is as right wing as they come, he wrote a book about Bill Clinton and when he left the USA the administration said that's another British Invasion we could have done without.

"I have been silent on Covid-19 for a while. There was little to be gained from harrying the Government once it had abandoned the misadventure of herd immunity and was at least trying to get a grip. Much of the belated media onslaught is reflexive gotcha-journalism (where were they in February when the mistakes were made?), or hides an ideological agenda.

But claims by both Downing Street and Public Health England that they “got it right” cannot be allowed to stand. Nor can the pretence that each stage of the containment policy is being fed out at just right time and at just the right calibration under the Jupiterian guidance of behavioural theorists.

There was never anything to be gained from delaying the lockdown once the brushfire had slipped control due to lack of testing/tracing. Each three days of prevarication meant a doubling of the infection case load. It was to sink deeper into the quagmire. Nor did the SAGE committee ever have a sufficient grasp of the basic facts to fine-tune the timing, let alone to play God.

The facts will out but it is hard to escape the conclusion that this secretive body – neither institutional fish nor fowl, with opaque responsibilities – gravely misjudged the speed of contagion long after the danger was obvious to virologists, immunologists, and epidemiologists across the world, and indeed to anybody paying attention.

Why does it make sense to impose a two-week quarantine on foreign arrivals at this late stage (excluding Ireland and France), rather than having done so when imported cases were first causing an explosion of infections in a virgin host community?

A Covid cardiologist at a top London hospital – friendly to Boris – has been so incensed by the daily charade of bogus omniscience that he vented his spleen in an email to me on Sunday night. It is a poignant indictment, so I pass along a few snippets.

Basically, every mistake that could have been made, was made. He likened the care home policy to the Siege of Caffa in 1346, that grim chapter of the Black Death when a Mongol army catapulted plague-ridden bodies over the walls.

“Our policy was to let the virus rip and then ‘cocoon the elderly’,” he wrote. “You don’t know whether to laugh or cry when you contrast that with what we actually did. We discharged known, suspected, and unknown cases into care homes which were unprepared, with no formal warning that the patients were infected, no testing available, and no PPE to prevent transmission. We actively seeded this into the very population that was most vulnerable.

“We let these people die without palliation. The official policy was not to visit care homes – and they didn’t (and still don’t). So, after infecting them with a disease that causes an unpleasant ending, we denied our elders access to a doctor – denied GP visits – and denied admission to hospital. Simple things like fluids, withheld. Effective palliation like syringe drivers, withheld.”

The public has yet to realise that the great quest for ventilators was worse than a red herring. The overuse of ventilators was itself killing people at a terrifying ratio and behind that lies another institutional failure.

“When the inquiry comes, it will show that many people died for lack of oxygen supply in hospitals, and this led to early intubation,” writes the doctor. “Boris survived because they gave him oxygen. High flow oxygen wasn’t available as a treatment option for all patients.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/05/12/governments-handling-covid-19-british-disaster/
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline barrier

Re: The Government's mishandling of the Covid-19 epidemic.
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2020, 06:26:11 AM »
The hindsight experts will have field day,trouble is it's probably justified, history imo will judge Johnson has a one trick pony in getting brexit done real governance in this crisis will be seen to be lacking.


And so I'm happy tonight. I'm not worried about anything. I'm not fearing any man!


Offline Brietta

Re: The Government's mishandling of the Covid-19 epidemic.
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2020, 09:13:20 AM »
The hindsight experts will have field day,trouble is it's probably justified, history imo will judge Johnson has a one trick pony in getting brexit done real governance in this crisis will be seen to be lacking.

Well said Barrier; but I don't think it is just a case of hindsight proving that the government got much of it wrong.  One inept ministerial briefing after another was building a picture which many were picking up on from early days and giving warning about.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Eleanor

Re: The Government's mishandling of the Covid-19 epidemic.
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2020, 12:51:37 PM »

There is nothing to justify.  Some people live and some people die, for whatever reason.  No Government can ultimately control this.  So it would be extremely unfair to expect this.

Where do you want to start?  Penalty Points for getting Fat?  More Points for being unable to cope?  And oh Yes, more points for being Unemployed or Unemployable.  That is Society.

Some of us just aren't all that good at anything.  This is the Human Condition.  We are all everyone's Father, Mother, Sister or Brother.  And some of us are better at it than others, but only by the grace of some God or another.

The Corona Virus?  I have decided that I am not having it, but only because I have opted out of society.  But then I did that a very long time ago, so no odds to me.  Same old same old.  Stay Away.

I don't like people.  And I can't say that I am all that wild about the dog either.  Rotten Little Swine.  But at least he is nice to me.  He looks as though he likes me.

None of this will make any difference to me.  I will live or die.  But not just yet please God.

Offline Carana

Re: The Government's mishandling of the Covid-19 epidemic.
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2020, 05:13:32 PM »
Has anyone found a credible reason as to why the UK and the Netherlands are the only European countries that don't have figures as to how many have recovered?

Offline Carana

Re: The Government's mishandling of the Covid-19 epidemic.
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2020, 05:37:05 PM »
There is nothing to justify.  Some people live and some people die, for whatever reason.  No Government can ultimately control this.  So it would be extremely unfair to expect this.

Where do you want to start?  Penalty Points for getting Fat?  More Points for being unable to cope?  And oh Yes, more points for being Unemployed or Unemployable.  That is Society.

Some of us just aren't all that good at anything.  This is the Human Condition.  We are all everyone's Father, Mother, Sister or Brother.  And some of us are better at it than others, but only by the grace of some God or another.

The Corona Virus?  I have decided that I am not having it, but only because I have opted out of society.  But then I did that a very long time ago, so no odds to me.  Same old same old.  Stay Away.

I don't like people.  And I can't say that I am all that wild about the dog either.  Rotten Little Swine.  But at least he is nice to me.  He looks as though he likes me.

None of this will make any difference to me.  I will live or die.  But not just yet please God.

Of course you're important, never forget that. ;)

Offline Robittybob1

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Re: The Government's mishandling of the Covid-19 epidemic.
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2020, 03:23:38 AM »
Has anyone found a credible reason as to why the UK and the Netherlands are the only European countries that don't have figures as to how many have recovered?
New Zealand's recovery rate is getting right up there.  Is it 96% recovered, 1500 infections so 4% of that is around 60 cases yet to heal.
Yesterday 1433 recovered/1499 confirmed and suspect cases = .95597  or 66 cases yet to recover.
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Offline Carana


Offline Carana

Re: The Government's mishandling of the Covid-19 epidemic.
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2020, 09:41:56 AM »
The Science and Technology Committee has just produced a report on the handling so far.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-ten-key-lessons-the-government-must-learn-set-out-in-new-report-11990584

Offline mrswah

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Re: The Government's mishandling of the Covid-19 epidemic.
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2020, 10:06:21 AM »
A horryfying extract from a piece in The Daily Telegraph. If you have the time, read it - as this condemnation of the Government comes from its biggest fans. It is truly shocking.

From Ambrose Evans-Pritchard who is International Business Editor of The Daily Telegraph., Evans Pritchard is as right wing as they come, he wrote a book about Bill Clinton and when he left the USA the administration said that's another British Invasion we could have done without.

"I have been silent on Covid-19 for a while. There was little to be gained from harrying the Government once it had abandoned the misadventure of herd immunity and was at least trying to get a grip. Much of the belated media onslaught is reflexive gotcha-journalism (where were they in February when the mistakes were made?), or hides an ideological agenda.

But claims by both Downing Street and Public Health England that they “got it right” cannot be allowed to stand. Nor can the pretence that each stage of the containment policy is being fed out at just right time and at just the right calibration under the Jupiterian guidance of behavioural theorists.

There was never anything to be gained from delaying the lockdown once the brushfire had slipped control due to lack of testing/tracing. Each three days of prevarication meant a doubling of the infection case load. It was to sink deeper into the quagmire. Nor did the SAGE committee ever have a sufficient grasp of the basic facts to fine-tune the timing, let alone to play God.

The facts will out but it is hard to escape the conclusion that this secretive body – neither institutional fish nor fowl, with opaque responsibilities – gravely misjudged the speed of contagion long after the danger was obvious to virologists, immunologists, and epidemiologists across the world, and indeed to anybody paying attention.

Why does it make sense to impose a two-week quarantine on foreign arrivals at this late stage (excluding Ireland and France), rather than having done so when imported cases were first causing an explosion of infections in a virgin host community?

A Covid cardiologist at a top London hospital – friendly to Boris – has been so incensed by the daily charade of bogus omniscience that he vented his spleen in an email to me on Sunday night. It is a poignant indictment, so I pass along a few snippets.

Basically, every mistake that could have been made, was made. He likened the care home policy to the Siege of Caffa in 1346, that grim chapter of the Black Death when a Mongol army catapulted plague-ridden bodies over the walls.

“Our policy was to let the virus rip and then ‘cocoon the elderly’,” he wrote. “You don’t know whether to laugh or cry when you contrast that with what we actually did. We discharged known, suspected, and unknown cases into care homes which were unprepared, with no formal warning that the patients were infected, no testing available, and no PPE to prevent transmission. We actively seeded this into the very population that was most vulnerable.

“We let these people die without palliation. The official policy was not to visit care homes – and they didn’t (and still don’t). So, after infecting them with a disease that causes an unpleasant ending, we denied our elders access to a doctor – denied GP visits – and denied admission to hospital. Simple things like fluids, withheld. Effective palliation like syringe drivers, withheld.”

The public has yet to realise that the great quest for ventilators was worse than a red herring. The overuse of ventilators was itself killing people at a terrifying ratio and behind that lies another institutional failure.

“When the inquiry comes, it will show that many people died for lack of oxygen supply in hospitals, and this led to early intubation,” writes the doctor. “Boris survived because they gave him oxygen. High flow oxygen wasn’t available as a treatment option for all patients.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/05/12/governments-handling-covid-19-british-disaster/


I agree with all of this. The situation is a mess.

However, I will make some allowances for the government. They hadn't dealt with a pandemic before, the "experts" all say different things, they had to make a lot of decisions in a hurry, the PM became ill, the health Secretary was also ill, so they've had it tough.

Not that I imagined I'd ever feel any sympathy for a Tory government led by Boris Johnson, but these are unusual times!!

Offline Carana

Re: The Government's mishandling of the Covid-19 epidemic.
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2020, 06:19:35 PM »
Someone I find sensible is Dr Devi Sridhar
@devisridhar
Professor & Chair of Global Public Health, @EdinburghUni
 Medical School. Director of @GlobalHealthGP
. Health governance, financing, policy, systems & security.

Offline Davel

Re: The Government's mishandling of the Covid-19 epidemic.
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2020, 06:27:29 PM »
Interesting study from Hong Kong university suggesting masks can have  a huge effect in reducing the transmission of the covid-19 virus
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 11:07:41 AM by Davel »

Offline Robittybob1

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Re: The Government's mishandling of the Covid-19 epidemic.
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2020, 10:50:07 AM »
Interesting study from Hong Komng university suggesting maske can have  a huge
Huge what?
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Offline Robittybob1

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Re: The Government's mishandling of the Covid-19 epidemic.
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2020, 10:53:16 AM »
Someone I find sensible is Dr Devi Sridhar
@devisridhar
Professor & Chair of Global Public Health, @EdinburghUni
 Medical School. Director of @GlobalHealthGP
. Health governance, financing, policy, systems & security.
Prof Devi Sridhar  has some YouTube videos. https://youtu.be/CECwGq94dBofor example.
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Carana

Re: The Government's mishandling of the Covid-19 epidemic.
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2020, 11:05:49 AM »
Prof Devi Sridhar  has some YouTube videos. https://youtu.be/CECwGq94dBofor example.

Thanks. So far, she seems very sensible.