Author Topic: Consider this scenario - Would a guilty person keep their case alive for many years?  (Read 59100 times)

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Offline Mr Gray

I have been wondering about a real life case with similarities to Alfie's scenario. Ben Butler seems to have assaulted his daughter twice and was prosecuted, found guilty and jailed. On appeal his conviction was overturned. Why did he not cut his losses and fade into obscurity? Instead he campaigned relentlessly for three years, protesting his innocence and asking for his daughter to be returned to him.

because he had been beaten by the system and lost his daughter...probably entitled to legal aid....and to inflict these injuries he must have some deep mental health problems...or f**king mad....so he qualifies on taht basis

Offline G-Unit

because he had been beaten by the system and lost his daughter...probably entitled to legal aid....and to inflict these injuries he must have some deep mental health problems...or f**king mad....so he qualifies on taht basis

I don't think you need legal aid to appear on 'This Morning' [whatever significance legal aid has to anything]. Has his mental health been discussed? He was certainly a control freak.
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Alfie

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I have been wondering about a real life case with similarities to Alfie's scenario. Ben Butler seems to have assaulted his daughter twice and was prosecuted, found guilty and jailed. On appeal his conviction was overturned. Why did he not cut his losses and fade into obscurity? Instead he campaigned relentlessly for three years, protesting his innocence and asking for his daughter to be returned to him.
There you have your motive. 

Offline pathfinder73

Having discovered my eldest child missing while on holiday abroad, when the police arrive, I am dismayed that they seem to be very relaxed about the situation being certain that she just got up and wandered out.
This despite me telling them through an interpreter about finding an open window in her bedroom ... and her shoes still being there.

Why weren't they publicising her disappearance?  What's 'judicial secrecy'?

If I had found your holiday mobile records deleted within 24 hours, no sign of a break-in and your finger prints on the alleged open window you would be a suspect.  If later as arguido you refused to answer my questions to prove your innocence you would be my number one suspect.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Alfie

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because he had been beaten by the system and lost his daughter...probably entitled to legal aid....and to inflict these injuries he must have some deep mental health problems...or f**king mad....so he qualifies on taht basis
And that - perhaps a psychopath? 

I've already suggested that being a psychopath might be a motivating factor in the protagonist in my scenario.

Offline Mr Gray

And that - perhaps a psychopath? 

I've already suggested that being a psychopath might be a motivating factor in the protagonist in my scenario.

absolutely ...being a psychopath would ceratainly fit the bill to behave in this manner

Offline pegasus

(snip) ... There is also the possibility that one of the people involved is completely innocent and that's the one who is driving the search and the review. ... (snip)
Might this be the answer to the OP's question?
« Last Edit: June 26, 2016, 08:12:33 PM by pegasus »

Alfie

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Might this be the answer to the OP's question?
I don't see how.

Offline pegasus

I don't see how.
Hypothetically it might explain the relentless genuine searching for the truth

Offline G-Unit

Hypothetically it might explain the relentless genuine searching for the truth

It could indeed. People are capable of being completely blind to the true nature of those they love.
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Alfie

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Hypothetically it might explain the relentless genuine searching for the truth
As I've said before I'd like to see you put together a plausible scenario where one party has been entirely in the dark for 9 years and is completely innocent.  It's stretching credulity to breaking point IMO.

Offline G-Unit

As I've said before I'd like to see you put together a plausible scenario where one party has been entirely in the dark for 9 years and is completely innocent.  It's stretching credulity to breaking point IMO.

Instead of saying it's incredulous, why don't you attempt to show why it is? My opinion is that it could happen. I can give cites where it has happened. Over to you for cites showing it's not possible.
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Alfie

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Instead of saying it's incredulous, why don't you attempt to show why it is? My opinion is that it could happen. I can give cites where it has happened. Over to you for cites showing it's not possible.
Hang on, YOU think it can be done, YOU show how it can be done, that's how theories are usually tested, by putting a detailed one forward for consideration - good luck with that and not breaching this forum's libel rules! 

Offline G-Unit

Hang on, YOU think it can be done, YOU show how it can be done, that's how theories are usually tested, by putting a detailed one forward for consideration - good luck with that and not breaching this forum's libel rules!

Can partners deceive those who love them? Hell yes! Most of these headlines refer to wives being deceived, but it could work both ways;

Wife of GPML fraudster says she knew nothing about her husband's ...
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Fraudster-s-wife-says-knew-cad-husband-s-crim...
24 Nov 2014 - She denies any knowledge of her former husband's crime, claiming ... 'I was totally unaware of a lot of things that Gerry was doing,' she said.
Despite Red Flags, These Wives Had No Clue Their Husbands Were ...
allday.com/post/3835-despite-red-flags-these-wives...husbands.../2/
Completely unaware, Linda suspected nothing when she found her husband ... his crimes, including newspaper clippings, photos, and videos; in places his wife ...
Fugitive awaits extradition; wife unaware of husband's crimes ...
www.newson6.com/.../fugitive-awaits-extradition-wife-unaware-of-husban...
He is wanted in a double homicide in Florida and crimes in three other states McClarty, 22, was added to the FBI list just days before he was taken into custody ...
Ex-wife of crime boss 'never knew' about his gangland activities ...
www.independent.ie/.../exwife-of-crime-boss-never-knew-about-his-gan...
11 Feb 2016 - The ex-wife of a Dublin crime boss has said the city's gangs would "pat ... RTÉ's 'Liveline' that she was unaware of her ex-husband's activities.


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Alfie

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Can partners deceive those who love them? Hell yes! Most of these headlines refer to wives being deceived, but it could work both ways;

Wife of GPML fraudster says she knew nothing about her husband's ...
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Fraudster-s-wife-says-knew-cad-husband-s-crim...
24 Nov 2014 - She denies any knowledge of her former husband's crime, claiming ... 'I was totally unaware of a lot of things that Gerry was doing,' she said.
Despite Red Flags, These Wives Had No Clue Their Husbands Were ...
allday.com/post/3835-despite-red-flags-these-wives...husbands.../2/
Completely unaware, Linda suspected nothing when she found her husband ... his crimes, including newspaper clippings, photos, and videos; in places his wife ...
Fugitive awaits extradition; wife unaware of husband's crimes ...
www.newson6.com/.../fugitive-awaits-extradition-wife-unaware-of-husban...
He is wanted in a double homicide in Florida and crimes in three other states McClarty, 22, was added to the FBI list just days before he was taken into custody ...
Ex-wife of crime boss 'never knew' about his gangland activities ...
www.independent.ie/.../exwife-of-crime-boss-never-knew-about-his-gan...
11 Feb 2016 - The ex-wife of a Dublin crime boss has said the city's gangs would "pat ... RTÉ's 'Liveline' that she was unaware of her ex-husband's activities.
And so all these examples prove what exactly?  For a start do you know for a fact that in all these cases the partner was genuinely unaware and innocent? Secondly, you would need to consider (in the scenario that we are all interested in), how one partner could commit the crime of hiding a child's body in the circumstances without the other partner having any inkling over the course of the last 9 years or so, or why the innocent partner would do such a thing in the first place.  Furthermore, you would have to consider why the innocent partner would be allowed to keep the focus on the crimes of the guilty partner for so long, and how a relationship in such fraught circumstances could endure for so long.   If you can do all that and still come up with a plausible and convincing case for it then good luck to you.