Author Topic: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.  (Read 52967 times)

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Offline mrswah

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Re: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.
« Reply #45 on: March 03, 2017, 08:24:24 AM »
I do not have hatred towards the Daily Mail but obviously professional organisations do. How do you know they print the truth? Only Helen Baileys family will be able to tell you if they printed facts. I only know in this case that the truth wasn't told and even the judge criticised the Daily Mail. This is highly unusual.  Many lives have been destroyed by their gutter journalism. There have been many occasions when they have had to make payments to individuals they have made slanderous remarks about.
Court transcripts are not available to the public and are destroyed after a few years. The legal profession are calling for these to be made available.  I have already said I am waiting for the forensic report. Please pay attention and stop asking the same questions.


I tried to get hold of court transcripts (referring to a different case). It is true that they are destroyed after about five years, and they are extremely expensive. One has to apply to the court first, and then to whichever private firm made the transcripts. Whether or not they will give them out to anybody is something I never got as far as investigating !!

Offline Daisy

Re: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.
« Reply #46 on: March 03, 2017, 08:29:26 AM »

I tried to get hold of court transcripts (referring to a different case). It is true that they are destroyed after about five years, and they are extremely expensive. One has to apply to the court first, and then to whichever private firm made the transcripts. Whether or not they will give them out to anybody is something I never got as far as investigating !!


Thank you mrswah. You clearly have a good understanding of the courts and the struggle by those who have been wrongly convicted. I welcome your thoughts and comments.

Offline John

Re: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.
« Reply #47 on: March 03, 2017, 09:32:00 AM »
Let's all please keep posts constructive and above all amiable.  Daisy might well struggle to get documentation related to this case but it will not be for the lack of trying. It might all be one huge coincidence that certain events occurred but then I admit I have some serious reservations about this case already given the absence of veritable facts.

   

     Victim Samuel Alexander                                      Mark Alexander pictured with girlfriend Senta Nazrbekova

The plot for all intents and purposes looks something like this.  Son of Egyptian-born parents brought up by father after mother was sent packing.  Son was reared under the most difficult circumstances under the thumb of a strict and domineering father.  Son was not allowed a social life and was at his fathers beck and call.  As son got older and began to stand up for himself the arguments started.  When son wanted to go to University in London and be with a girlfriend the situation became intolerable.  Something happened the day the son was due to travel abroad to a university in Paris, France.  Did the feuding come to a head, was there a scuffle, a fight or something more sinister?  The pathologist who examined the fathers badly burned/decomposed remains was unable to determine the cause of death.  The son claims to have no knowledge of his fathers demise yet he was found guilty of murder.

Any suggestions?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7990744/Student-guilty-of-killing-controlling-father-and-burying-him-in-concrete.html
« Last Edit: March 03, 2017, 02:37:19 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposť of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline mrswah

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Re: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.
« Reply #48 on: March 04, 2017, 04:38:00 PM »
This is certainly an unusual and fascinating case!

I have no idea whether or not Mark killed his father (either deliberately, or accidentally during an argument), whether he paid someone to do it, or whether he is completely innocent.  I can, however, see why a jury would have found him guilty.

I don't think they should have done, because the case could not have been proved beyond reasonable doubt----we do not even know when or how Samuel died. He might even have died of natural causes, and the death covered up, either by Mark, or by somebody else. After all, he was a sick man.  Also, Samuel led such a strange life, used a number of aliases, and knew people whose identities we don't know, that we cannot really know who might have had a reason to kill him, or why. 

The jury would have been persuaded by the fact that Mark did have a strong motive to kill his father:  going by all the reports I have read, his father treated him very  badly throughout his life, although the two of them seem also to have been fond of each other. 

In addition, I suspect the jurors would have been  appalled by the fact that Samuel was buried in the grounds of his home, just as many of us were when Trevor Jordache was buried under the patio in "Eastenders" all those years ago!!!  Then, of course, there was the dreadful  Cromwell Street case with  a number of young women buried under the patio by Fred West.  It's vile, but it happens, and I surmise the jurors would have thought that such a deed could only be done by somebody who lived in the house (albeit intermittently).

I have to admit to being a bit suspicious regarding the neighbours, who, going by some reports, disliked Samuel, but who were only to ready to report his disappearance--------to a retired policeman who lived in the village.  Why were they suddenly so concerned about their difficult, rude neighbour? How did they feel about Mark? Did they like him, or were they angry about him leaving his father to go to university (and leaving them to keep an eye on his father)?

Who knows?

Offline John

Re: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.
« Reply #49 on: March 05, 2017, 10:15:04 AM »
I must admit I find it hard to believe that Mark would intentionally murder his father despite the cruelty he suffered as a child.  However, I also find it very hard to accept third party involvement in the murder given the evidence surrounding the building work which allegedly occurred at the family home and the manner in which the deceased was buried after an attempt had been made to burn his body. 

If there had been an altercation with his father which turned violent as the prosecution suggested then Mark should have admitted to it instead of attempting to pervert the course of justice.  Depending on what occurred, he could have received a modest sentence for manslaughter given the mitigating circumstances.  If he were to come clean even now he could have the conviction reviewed.

A further point worth noting is this.  It is claimed that Mark had no opportunity to commit the crime for which he was convicted as he was sixty miles away at University.  I'm afraid that argument just doesn't wash!

http://www.mojuk.org.uk/MOJUK%202015/Mark%20Alexander.html
« Last Edit: March 05, 2017, 10:42:31 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposť of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Daisy

Re: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.
« Reply #50 on: March 05, 2017, 11:43:16 AM »
This is certainly an unusual and fascinating case!

I have no idea whether or not Mark killed his father (either deliberately, or accidentally during an argument), whether he paid someone to do it, or whether he is completely innocent.  I can, however, see why a jury would have found him guilty.

I don't think they should have done, because the case could not have been proved beyond reasonable doubt----we do not even know when or how Samuel died. He might even have died of natural causes, and the death covered up, either by Mark, or by somebody else. After all, he was a sick man.  Also, Samuel led such a strange life, used a number of aliases, and knew people whose identities we don't know, that we cannot really know who might have had a reason to kill him, or why. 

The jury would have been persuaded by the fact that Mark did have a strong motive to kill his father:  going by all the reports I have read, his father treated him very  badly throughout his life, although the two of them seem also to have been fond of each other. 

In addition, I suspect the jurors would have been  appalled by the fact that Samuel was buried in the grounds of his home, just as many of us were when Trevor Jordache was buried under the patio in "Eastenders" all those years ago!!!  Then, of course, there was the dreadful  Cromwell Street case with  a number of young women buried under the patio by Fred West.  It's vile, but it happens, and I surmise the jurors would have thought that such a deed could only be done by somebody who lived in the house (albeit intermittently).

I have to admit to being a bit suspicious regarding the neighbours, who, going by some reports, disliked Samuel, but who were only to ready to report his disappearance--------to a retired policeman who lived in the village.  Why were they suddenly so concerned about their difficult, rude neighbour? How did they feel about Mark? Did they like him, or were they angry about him leaving his father to go to university (and leaving them to keep an eye on his father)?

Who knows?

You are clearly an intelligent, insightful and fair minded person who is seeing this case from all angles.  I am suspicious as to why the two police officers were so keen to pin this crime on Mark.  I wonder if they had informants who killed Samuel and were covering up for them.  Anything is possible.  Also if the police had done their job properly in the first place instead of taking the easy option, and investigated Samuel's alliases and contacts then they may have found the real culprits.  Mark is now having to do this himself at great expense.

jixy

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Re: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.
« Reply #51 on: March 05, 2017, 12:38:06 PM »
have you had any developments on that yet Daisy? I know last time you posted it seems like a huge struggle to get through all the red tape in connection to all his names etc

Offline John

Re: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.
« Reply #52 on: March 05, 2017, 12:52:14 PM »
You are clearly an intelligent, insightful and fair minded person who is seeing this case from all angles.  I am suspicious as to why the two police officers were so keen to pin this crime on Mark. I wonder if they had informants who killed Samuel and were covering up for them.  Anything is possible.  Also if the police had done their job properly in the first place instead of taking the easy option, and investigated Samuel's alliases and contacts then they may have found the real culprits.  Mark is now having to do this himself at great expense.

That really isnt any mystery Daisy, a father and son with a fraught relationship, the father disappears suddenly, no contact with social services, unkept appointments when previously he had attended both his GP and the hospital.  A son who send out Christmas cards on his fathers behalf yet tells anyone who asks that he had gone off on his jaunts. Then eventually the father is found buried alongside the family garage where nobody except the family had any access to. It really doesn't take much for all these circumstances to add up to suspicion.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposť of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.
« Reply #53 on: March 05, 2017, 12:52:58 PM »
You are clearly an intelligent, insightful and fair minded person who is seeing this case from all angles.  I am suspicious as to why the two police officers were so keen to pin this crime on Mark. I wonder if they had informants who killed Samuel and were covering up for them.  Anything is possible.  Also if the police had done their job properly in the first place instead of taking the easy option, and investigated Samuel's alliases and contacts then they may have found the real culprits.  Mark is now having to do this himself at great expense.

That really isnt any mystery Daisy.  A father and son with a fraught relationship, the father disappears suddenly, no contact with social services, unkept appointments when previously he had attended both his GP and the hospital.  A son who sends out Christmas cards purporting to be from his father yet tells anyone who later asks that he had gone off on his jaunts leaving his car and possessions behind and never once accesses his bank accounts or does any sort of business online. Then eventually the father's burned body is found buried alongside the family garage in a makeshift grave covered in multiple layers of mortar and concrete where nobody except the family had any access to. It really doesn't take much for all these circumstances to add up to suspicion of the son.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2017, 12:58:02 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposť of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Daisy

Re: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.
« Reply #54 on: March 05, 2017, 08:27:26 PM »
That really isnt any mystery Daisy.  A father and son with a fraught relationship, the father disappears suddenly, no contact with social services, unkept appointments when previously he had attended both his GP and the hospital.  A son who sends out Christmas cards purporting to be from his father yet tells anyone who later asks that he had gone off on his jaunts leaving his car and possessions behind and never once accesses his bank accounts or does any sort of business online. Then eventually the father's burned body is found buried alongside the family garage in a makeshift grave covered in multiple layers of mortar and concrete where nobody except the family had any access to. It really doesn't take much for all these circumstances to add up to suspicion of the son.

Where do you come up with the idea it was a fraught relationship? Oh yes of course The Daily Mail!  This is far from the truth. Mark was very compliant and did whatever he was asked and never complained. The serious case review criticised Social Services for not considering Mark's needs. While at school Sami used to make sure Mark was studying at weekends for 8 hours a day and Mark did as he was told. Try telling a child today to do that!! Mark told me that the jury couldn't understand their unconventional life style as it wasn't "normal". However how does one define "normal?".

Lots of people had access to the family home.  Also shortly before Sami disappeared the police put letters through everyone's doors in the village warning of suspicious individuals hanging around.

Offline John

Re: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.
« Reply #55 on: March 05, 2017, 08:57:35 PM »
Where do you come up with the idea it was a fraught relationship? Oh yes of course The Daily Mail!  This is far from the truth. Mark was very compliant and did whatever he was asked and never complained. The serious case review criticised Social Services for not considering Mark's needs. While at school Sami used to make sure Mark was studying at weekends for 8 hours a day and Mark did as he was told. Try telling a child today to do that!! Mark told me that the jury couldn't understand their unconventional life style as it wasn't "normal". However how does one define "normal?".

Lots of people had access to the family home.  Also shortly before Sami disappeared the police put letters through everyone's doors in the village warning of suspicious individuals hanging around.

You asked why two police officers were so keen to pin the crime on Mark and I ponted out why it was so obvious.  Nobody knows what went on behind closed doors, you only have Mark's version of events to go by.  I find it extremely likely however that when Mark started spending time away from home and the influence of his father that the relationship changed dramatically.  Was Sami's demand that Mark attend university in Paris and away from his girlfriend in London an ultimatum with consequences?  The CPS and the jury appeared to believe so.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2017, 09:02:36 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposť of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Daisy

Re: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.
« Reply #56 on: March 05, 2017, 09:09:03 PM »
You asked why two police officers were so keen to pin the crime on Mark and I ponted out why it was obvious.  Nobody knows what went on behind closed doors, you only have Mark's version of events to go by.  I find it extremely likely however that when Mark started spending time away from home and the influence of his father that the relationship changed dramatically.  Was Sami's demand that Mark attend university in Paris and away from his girlfriend in London an ultimatum with consequences?

Yes it is easy to go with the cheapest option like they did with Barry George and Colin Stagg . Good police work starts with gathering facts and investigating properly. You of all people should understand that. There is no evidence in this case only suspicion and the jury should never have convicted Mark on this basis.  I am not aware that Sami demanded Mark attend University in Paris and I will clarify this point with him.  Of course I only have Mark's version of events to go by and this is fact compared to The Daily Mail's version.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 07:00:35 AM by Daisy »

Offline John

Re: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.
« Reply #57 on: March 06, 2017, 11:52:49 AM »
Yes it is easy to go with the cheapest option like they did with Barry George and Colin Stagg . Good police work starts with gathering facts and investigating properly. You of all people should understand that. There is no evidence in this case only suspicion and the jury should never have convicted Mark on this basis.  I am not aware that Sami demanded Mark attend University in Paris and I will clarify this point with him.  Of course I only have Mark's version of events to go by and this is fact compared to The Daily Mail's version.

It is incorrect to state that there is no evidence in this case Daisy.  The conviction proceeded on the basis of circumstantial evidence some of which we have discussed on this board.  What is very clear is that Mark made no attempt to disclose the fact that his father had disappeared under very suspicious circumstances.  In fact, he went out of his way to ignore the disappearance and give the impression to anyone who enquired that his father was off visiting associates in London. He furthered this pretence by sending out Christmas cards in his fathers name.  Sami might well have gone off somewhere but I'm very sure his son would have known had he not done so ie he was dead and buried in the back garden.  I do not accept for a second that a son whose life had revolved around his father for twenty odd years would not know if his father had gone away or not.  Additionally, son Mark had access to his fathers banking and had withdrawn sums of money regularly from it, he knew very well that his father had not taken any funds.  The Daily Mail nonsense aside, in the real world those circumstances all add up to a very real suspicion.

And just to be clear, I'm not saying Mark killed his father but it is most certainly a very real and credible possibility.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 12:07:37 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposť of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Daisy

Re: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.
« Reply #58 on: March 06, 2017, 08:38:51 PM »
It is incorrect to state that there is no evidence in this case Daisy.  The conviction proceeded on the basis of circumstantial evidence some of which we have discussed on this board.  What is very clear is that Mark made no attempt to disclose the fact that his father had disappeared under very suspicious circumstances.  In fact, he went out of his way to ignore the disappearance and give the impression to anyone who enquired that his father was off visiting associates in London. He furthered this pretence by sending out Christmas cards in his fathers name.  Sami might well have gone off somewhere but I'm very sure his son would have known had he not done so ie he was dead and buried in the back garden.  I do not accept for a second that a son whose life had revolved around his father for twenty odd years would not know if his father had gone away or not.  Additionally, son Mark had access to his fathers banking and had withdrawn sums of money regularly from it, he knew very well that his father had not taken any funds.  The Daily Mail nonsense aside, in the real world those circumstances all add up to a very real suspicion.

And just to be clear, I'm not saying Mark killed his father but it is most certainly a very real and credible possibility.


Yes I agree there is suspicion but we have to remember that Sami and Mark had an unconventional lifestyle which many of us find hard to understand. Sometimes when there is no solid evidence it comes down to belief. I speak to Mark regularly and he comes over as very genuine. The trouble today with so much evil in the world we are naturally suspicious of everyone. Years ago we were much more trusting but this seems to have been lost. All I can say is Mark has given me his version of events which are consistent whenever I speak to him or receive a letter. The truth never changes and I will continue to believe him but at the same time question him. I have sent a list of further questions to him today.

Offline John

Re: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.
« Reply #59 on: March 07, 2017, 12:57:25 PM »

Yes I agree there is suspicion but we have to remember that Sami and Mark had an unconventional lifestyle which many of us find hard to understand. Sometimes when there is no solid evidence it comes down to belief. I speak to Mark regularly and he comes over as very genuine. The trouble today with so much evil in the world we are naturally suspicious of everyone. Years ago we were much more trusting but this seems to have been lost. All I can say is Mark has given me his version of events which are consistent whenever I speak to him or receive a letter. The truth never changes and I will continue to believe him but at the same time question him. I have sent a list of further questions to him today.

After a while you will form a sense of whether he is being honest with you and if he is holding back anything.  There are many tell-tale signs to look out for.  Remember this though, he is a smart guy and may have created a version of events in his own and and sticks to it.  Our job is to pick away at it to see if it sustains.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposť of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.