Author Topic: Brexit  (Read 5925 times)

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Offline G-Unit

Brexit
« on: December 11, 2020, 09:38:55 AM »
I was wondering what people think of Brexit now, as the split from the EU is imminent. The EU seem determined to retain some control over the UK as the price of a trade deal. Is that because they fear competition from the UK? There is also the matter of fishing, which is causing problems. Is this being driven by France, given the militancy of French fishermen? Who is being unrealistic? The British, who want to regain full control of their own affairs, or the EU who want a closer relationship than the one on offer?
England - good effort

Offline barrier

Re: Brexit
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2020, 11:07:00 AM »
Boris was elected on the premise of delivering brexit, maybe just maybe we have a prime minister who'll deliver on a promise deal or no deal, the EU want it on their terms.


And so I'm happy tonight. I'm not worried about anything. I'm not fearing any man!


Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Brexit
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2020, 08:31:35 PM »
I still think Brexit is going to be a disaster for this country but I think both sides in the negotiations need their heads knocking together to get a deal pronto.
ANGER MAKES US AWARE OF INJUSTICE
We often experience anger when we are denied rights or when faced with insults, disrespect, injustice, or exploitation. Anger serves as an internal guidance system that indicates something is not quite right, that someone has treated us unjustly or unfairly. Anger helps communicate to others: “You’d better treat me fairly; otherwise, you’ll pay a high cost.” On a global level, standing up for a lack of fairness can prevent people from taking advantage of others. This type of anger can bring about positive change in society and increase the social cost of misbehaving.
The value of anger https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/value-of-anger-16-reasons-its-good-to-get-angry-0313175

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Brexit
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2020, 08:33:53 PM »
Boris was elected on the premise of delivering brexit, maybe just maybe we have a prime minister who'll deliver on a promise deal or no deal, the EU want it on their terms.
Boris’s tippety top ‘Australia deal’ looks to be the front runner atm.   What a complete joke.
ANGER MAKES US AWARE OF INJUSTICE
We often experience anger when we are denied rights or when faced with insults, disrespect, injustice, or exploitation. Anger serves as an internal guidance system that indicates something is not quite right, that someone has treated us unjustly or unfairly. Anger helps communicate to others: “You’d better treat me fairly; otherwise, you’ll pay a high cost.” On a global level, standing up for a lack of fairness can prevent people from taking advantage of others. This type of anger can bring about positive change in society and increase the social cost of misbehaving.
The value of anger https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/value-of-anger-16-reasons-its-good-to-get-angry-0313175

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2020, 09:32:27 PM »
I still haven't found any upside. The EU is by no means devoid of defects, but it's a force to be reckoned with. And, until Brexit, the UK was one of the major voices at the table in shaping it.

My feeling is that some  (Russia, the far right nationalists, ERG lot, Bannon/ Farage inter alia) wanted to break up Europe, and the crack in the oyster was via the UK.

The UK was fed up of years of austerity and was spoonfed the notion that any domestic problems were somehow all caused by "Brussels".


Offline Carana

Re: Brexit
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2020, 09:39:29 PM »
Even on the economic front, some of the proponents seem to have some alternative-reality views.

John Redwood, who seems to be more that a bit mixed up on how tariffs work. (hint: it's the opposite - the exporting country charges, the importing country pays.)
https://twitter.com/uk_domain_names/status/1336015003804184576/photo/1

Offline G-Unit

Re: Brexit
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2020, 10:18:52 PM »
I still haven't found any upside. The EU is by no means devoid of defects, but it's a force to be reckoned with. And, until Brexit, the UK was one of the major voices at the table in shaping it.

My feeling is that some  (Russia, the far right nationalists, ERG lot, Bannon/ Farage inter alia) wanted to break up Europe, and the crack in the oyster was via the UK.

The UK was fed up of years of austerity and was spoonfed the notion that any domestic problems were somehow all caused by "Brussels".

I think the whys and wherefores are immaterial now. All the warnings and predictions of doom have died out. The EU and the UK remainers have fought hard to keep the UK on board but have failed. Now it seems the EU fear competition from a near neighbour, and face losing the easy access to UK waters they have enjoyed. Right or wrong this government are determined to do what they promised to do. Perhaps the British people were wrong, but they had a democratic vote and finally seem to be getting what they voted for.
England - good effort

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Brexit
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2020, 10:29:26 PM »
I think the whys and wherefores are immaterial now. All the warnings and predictions of doom have died out. The EU and the UK remainers have fought hard to keep the UK on board but have failed. Now it seems the EU fear competition from a near neighbour, and face losing the easy access to UK waters they have enjoyed. Right or wrong this government are determined to do what they promised to do. Perhaps the British people were wrong, but they had a democratic vote and finally seem to be getting what they voted for.
”All the warnings and predictions of doom have died out”?  I don’t think so!
ANGER MAKES US AWARE OF INJUSTICE
We often experience anger when we are denied rights or when faced with insults, disrespect, injustice, or exploitation. Anger serves as an internal guidance system that indicates something is not quite right, that someone has treated us unjustly or unfairly. Anger helps communicate to others: “You’d better treat me fairly; otherwise, you’ll pay a high cost.” On a global level, standing up for a lack of fairness can prevent people from taking advantage of others. This type of anger can bring about positive change in society and increase the social cost of misbehaving.
The value of anger https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/value-of-anger-16-reasons-its-good-to-get-angry-0313175

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2020, 10:55:08 PM »
I think the whys and wherefores are immaterial now. All the warnings and predictions of doom have died out. The EU and the UK remainers have fought hard to keep the UK on board but have failed. Now it seems the EU fear competition from a near neighbour, and face losing the easy access to UK waters they have enjoyed. Right or wrong this government are determined to do what they promised to do. Perhaps the British people were wrong, but they had a democratic vote and finally seem to be getting what they voted for.

I'd agree if the vote had been the result of full information being provided that people could weigh up. AFAIK, it wasn't.

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2020, 04:08:38 AM »


Brexit: Armed Navy boats on standby to protect UK waters in case of no deal



Armed Royal Navy boats are being prepared to patrol the UK's fishing waters in an apparent final warning shot to Brussels as negotiations enter the final 48 hours.

Four of the 80-metre vessels are on standby to guard British waters from EU fishermen in case no deal is agreed on fishing rights after the Brexit transition period ends on 31 December.

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-armed-navy-boats-on-standby-to-protect-uk-waters-in-case-of-no-deal-12158624


Erm, how is that supposed fishers to export 80-90% of their catch to their largest market?

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Brexit
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2020, 07:05:17 AM »
That’s just what this country needs: a jolly good war with Europe.   Let’s show ‘em who’s boss!
ANGER MAKES US AWARE OF INJUSTICE
We often experience anger when we are denied rights or when faced with insults, disrespect, injustice, or exploitation. Anger serves as an internal guidance system that indicates something is not quite right, that someone has treated us unjustly or unfairly. Anger helps communicate to others: “You’d better treat me fairly; otherwise, you’ll pay a high cost.” On a global level, standing up for a lack of fairness can prevent people from taking advantage of others. This type of anger can bring about positive change in society and increase the social cost of misbehaving.
The value of anger https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/value-of-anger-16-reasons-its-good-to-get-angry-0313175

Online Wonderfulspam

Re: Brexit
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2020, 08:21:08 AM »


If the navy open fire on so much as one french fishing vessel, then Brexit will have been completely worth it.
Free Martin Brueckner

Offline G-Unit

Re: Brexit
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2020, 08:28:16 AM »
I'd agree if the vote had been the result of full information being provided that people could weigh up. AFAIK, it wasn't.

There was a lot of information being provided, but most of it was from people who desired a particular outcome.
England - good effort

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2020, 11:08:05 AM »
There was a lot of information being provided, but most of it was from people who desired a particular outcome.

My take is that there was indeed information available (if people had the time / inclination to look for it), but there was also a lot of mis / disinformation peddled on a daily basis.

On occasion, I found some of the criticism of the EU to be justified, but the vast majority of it fell between "half-true" and "pants on fire".

A few people I know who voted for Brexit were slowly changing their minds and would probably have then voted against had there been a second referendum. However, when push came to shove, the thought of Corbyn in power seemed even worse.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda


Offline Carana

Re: Brexit
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2020, 11:13:24 AM »
Sadly, the page of EU myths is no longer active. Some of it can be found via Way Back.

https://wayback.archive-it.org/11980/20200131183933/https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/

The original list was huge, albeit not comprehensive. And was here:
https://wayback.archive-it.org/11980/20200131192225/https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/

Ah. I haven't checked it all, but this seems to be a working version.
http://the-eu-and-me.org.uk/eu-myths.html

Nope, it has a few, but not all.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2020, 11:27:49 AM by Carana »