Author Topic: What's Significant About LM Finding J J?  (Read 5030 times)

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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: What's Significant About LM Finding J J?
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2021, 09:33:33 PM »
How many of the above dog walkers were also in a relationship with thr person whose body they found?
ANGER MAKES US AWARE OF INJUSTICE
We often experience anger when we are denied rights or when faced with insults, disrespect, injustice, or exploitation. Anger serves as an internal guidance system that indicates something is not quite right, that someone has treated us unjustly or unfairly. Anger helps communicate to others: “You’d better treat me fairly; otherwise, you’ll pay a high cost.” On a global level, standing up for a lack of fairness can prevent people from taking advantage of others. This type of anger can bring about positive change in society and increase the social cost of misbehaving.
The value of anger https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/value-of-anger-16-reasons-its-good-to-get-angry-0313175

Offline mrswah

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Re: What's Significant About LM Finding J J?
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2021, 10:25:46 PM »
I find it much more significant that the witness statements changed.

Why??

Offline Brietta

Re: What's Significant About LM Finding J J?
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2021, 01:36:05 AM »
I find it much more significant that the witness statements changed.

Why??

How do you know the witness statements changed and if so from what to what?  Genuine question.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: What's Significant About LM Finding J J?
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2021, 07:36:59 AM »
How many of the above dog walkers were also in a relationship with thr person whose body they found?

Why do you think that's relevant?

Dog walkers often find bodies and imo its no different in this case.  Quite likely LM's dog, Mia ?, was attracted to the scent of blood and/or the odours emitted from a decomposing corpse. 

Most women will have experienced the embarrassment of having a dog sniff around their crotch when having a period even when wearing a tampon!  Dogs without training! 

https://www-huffpost-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.huffpost.com/entry/why-dogs-sniff-women-crotches-on-period_n_5ba2b72de4b0375f8f99b44b/amp?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16183823588431&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffpost.com%2Fentry%2Fwhy-dogs-sniff-women-crotches-on-period_n_5ba2b72de4b0375f8f99b44b
« Last Edit: April 14, 2021, 07:40:52 AM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: What's Significant About LM Finding J J?
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2021, 08:17:07 AM »
Why do you think that's relevant?

Dog walkers often find bodies and imo its no different in this case.  Quite likely LM's dog, Mia ?, was attracted to the scent of blood and/or the odours emitted from a decomposing corpse. 

Most women will have experienced the embarrassment of having a dog sniff around their crotch when having a period even when wearing a tampon!  Dogs without training! 

https://www-huffpost-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.huffpost.com/entry/why-dogs-sniff-women-crotches-on-period_n_5ba2b72de4b0375f8f99b44b/amp?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16183823588431&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffpost.com%2Fentry%2Fwhy-dogs-sniff-women-crotches-on-period_n_5ba2b72de4b0375f8f99b44b
If you don’t think it’s relevant then I doubt there’s anything I can add to help you understand.
ANGER MAKES US AWARE OF INJUSTICE
We often experience anger when we are denied rights or when faced with insults, disrespect, injustice, or exploitation. Anger serves as an internal guidance system that indicates something is not quite right, that someone has treated us unjustly or unfairly. Anger helps communicate to others: “You’d better treat me fairly; otherwise, you’ll pay a high cost.” On a global level, standing up for a lack of fairness can prevent people from taking advantage of others. This type of anger can bring about positive change in society and increase the social cost of misbehaving.
The value of anger https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/value-of-anger-16-reasons-its-good-to-get-angry-0313175

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: What's Significant About LM Finding J J?
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2021, 08:24:49 AM »
If you don’t think it’s relevant then I doubt there’s anything I can add to help you understand.

He would know the dog was likely to attract attention to the body.  If he was responsible why not join the search without the dog and allow others to find the body.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: What's Significant About LM Finding J J?
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2021, 09:16:42 AM »
He would know the dog was likely to attract attention to the body.  If he was responsible why not join the search without the dog and allow others to find the body.
Maybe he had a reason for wanting to be the one to find the body.  To have the kudos of being the one who found her, or to take delight in the reactions of those who he was with to the gruesome discovery or maybe he thought he needed to put himself at the scene of the crime for legitimate reasons in case any of his DNA was found on the body.  Who knows.  But if you don't think it's in any way relevant that the person who found the body was intimately acquainted with the victim then that is your prerogative, nothing I say will change your mind of that I am certain.
ANGER MAKES US AWARE OF INJUSTICE
We often experience anger when we are denied rights or when faced with insults, disrespect, injustice, or exploitation. Anger serves as an internal guidance system that indicates something is not quite right, that someone has treated us unjustly or unfairly. Anger helps communicate to others: “You’d better treat me fairly; otherwise, you’ll pay a high cost.” On a global level, standing up for a lack of fairness can prevent people from taking advantage of others. This type of anger can bring about positive change in society and increase the social cost of misbehaving.
The value of anger https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/value-of-anger-16-reasons-its-good-to-get-angry-0313175

Offline mrswah

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Re: What's Significant About LM Finding J J?
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2021, 10:21:26 AM »
How do you know the witness statements changed and if so from what to what?  Genuine question.


See "Innocents Betrayed"  Chapter 3, in which Sandra Lean explains that the early statements given to police by various witnesses differed from later statements, and from what they said in court. Some examples are whether Luke or his dog found Jodi, whether or not Luke was emotional when he discovered Jodi was dead,  whether or not Jodi had, in fact been grounded by her mum, and for what reason(s), and what time Jodi left home.

I have no issues with Sandra Lean, so until someone can prove to me that what she says in her book is lies/mistakes, I have no choice but to believe her.
 


Offline faithlilly

Re: What's Significant About LM Finding J J?
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2021, 10:31:26 AM »

See "Innocents Betrayed"  Chapter 3, in which Sandra Lean explains that the early statements given to police by various witnesses differed from later statements, and from what they said in court. Some examples are whether Luke or his dog found Jodi, whether or not Luke was emotional when he discovered Jodi was dead,  whether or not Jodi had, in fact been grounded by her mum, and for what reason(s), and what time Jodi left home.

I have no issues with Sandra Lean, so until someone can prove to me that what she says in her book is lies/mistakes, I have no choice but to believe her.

The questioning of these witnesses by DF also included questioning over the changes in their statements. The newspaper reports verify this, if verification was needed.

Offline mrswah

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Re: What's Significant About LM Finding J J?
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2021, 10:37:14 AM »
Maybe he had a reason for wanting to be the one to find the body.  To have the kudos of being the one who found her, or to take delight in the reactions of those who he was with to the gruesome discovery or maybe he thought he needed to put himself at the scene of the crime for legitimate reasons in case any of his DNA was found on the body.  Who knows.  But if you don't think it's in any way relevant that the person who found the body was intimately acquainted with the victim then that is your prerogative, nothing I say will change your mind of that I am certain.

Surely, Luke would have expected his DNA to be on Jodi. He was her boyfriend, so why would he be worried about that?

I don't know enough about people who commit murder to know whether or not they sometimes like to "discover" the bodies of those they have killed. I suspect it might be true of some who have severe mental health disorders. It may also be the case that some killers would want to be as far away from the murder scene as possible. Who knows?

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: What's Significant About LM Finding J J?
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2021, 10:51:21 AM »
Surely, Luke would have expected his DNA to be on Jodi. He was her boyfriend, so why would he be worried about that?

I don't know enough about people who commit murder to know whether or not they sometimes like to "discover" the bodies of those they have killed. I suspect it might be true of some who have severe mental health disorders. It may also be the case that some killers would want to be as far away from the murder scene as possible. Who knows?
When was the last time he claimed to have seen her alive?
ANGER MAKES US AWARE OF INJUSTICE
We often experience anger when we are denied rights or when faced with insults, disrespect, injustice, or exploitation. Anger serves as an internal guidance system that indicates something is not quite right, that someone has treated us unjustly or unfairly. Anger helps communicate to others: “You’d better treat me fairly; otherwise, you’ll pay a high cost.” On a global level, standing up for a lack of fairness can prevent people from taking advantage of others. This type of anger can bring about positive change in society and increase the social cost of misbehaving.
The value of anger https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/value-of-anger-16-reasons-its-good-to-get-angry-0313175

Offline mrswah

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Re: What's Significant About LM Finding J J?
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2021, 12:17:53 PM »
When was the last time he claimed to have seen her alive?

At school, on the day of the murder, I believe.

Offline Paranoid Android

Re: What's Significant About LM Finding J J?
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2021, 12:24:55 PM »
The first wit stats of those present when J J was found all agreed LM's dog led the way.  Later wit stats say LM led the way.  Either way I don't see the significance in that dog walkers often find bodies:

And it's a sheer coincidence that the dug walkers that discovered Jodi was the search party that was actively looking for her?

Offline Brietta

Re: What's Significant About LM Finding J J?
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2021, 01:20:49 PM »

See "Innocents Betrayed"  Chapter 3, in which Sandra Lean explains that the early statements given to police by various witnesses differed from later statements, and from what they said in court. Some examples are whether Luke or his dog found Jodi, whether or not Luke was emotional when he discovered Jodi was dead,  whether or not Jodi had, in fact been grounded by her mum, and for what reason(s), and what time Jodi left home.

I have no issues with Sandra Lean, so until someone can prove to me that what she says in her book is lies/mistakes, I have no choice but to believe her.

Sorry.  If Sandra Lean is the only source for this I will disregard it; in my short acquaintance with this discussion I have found her to be the source of so much misinformation as to make her an unreliable source.

I believe it is not unusual for witnesses to alter initial statements either to add or subtract something recalled later.  Shane Mitchell did so for example.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....