Author Topic: Statement Analysis of JB`s statements  (Read 5170 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Statement Analysis of JB`s statements
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2020, 08:06:40 PM »
Hi Adrian,

There is also the fact that although 25 shells were used out of a box of 50, there were 30 left on the counter top. This proves that the magazine must have been partially full with at least 5 shells all along and so had Bamber been 'in a hurry', he didn't need to load more and could have gone straight outside.

Hi Caro

26 if the non-penetratring gsw June sustained to her chest was independent of the 7 penetrating gsw's.

How can it be proved that the ammunition used was taken from the kitchen counter and not some other location?
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Caroline

Re: Statement Analysis of JB`s statements
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2020, 02:11:08 AM »
Hi Caro

26 if the non-penetratring gsw June sustained to her chest was independent of the 7 penetrating gsw's.

How can it be proved that the ammunition used was taken from the kitchen counter and not some other location?


Hi Holly
Because the notion is ridiculous and I think you know that. Good to see you back!  8((()*/

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Statement Analysis of JB`s statements
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2020, 11:19:09 AM »

Hi Holly
Because the notion is ridiculous and I think you know that. Good to see you back!  8((()*/

 8((()*/

No I don't think it's ridiculous on the basis some of the spent casings contained marks showing they had been loaded into the mag on at least one previous occasion.

Did the 29 found on the counter and one in the box show any such marks?

Also we only have limited images depicting the pile in the kitchen.  How do we know there wasn't a little pile in the office eg NB's desk or some other place?
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline APRIL

Re: Statement Analysis of JB`s statements
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2020, 11:38:05 AM »
8((()*/

No I don't think it's ridiculous on the basis some of the spent casings contained marks showing they had been loaded into the mag on at least one previous occasion.

Did the 29 found on the counter and one in the box show any such marks?

Also we only have limited images depicting the pile in the kitchen.  How do we know there wasn't a little pile in the office eg NB's desk or some other place?


How would any court function if trials were conducted on a basis of X being found/known, but there being the possibility that Z might have been found elsewhere?  Good to see you posting again.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Statement Analysis of JB`s statements
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2020, 01:01:15 PM »
Hi Caro

26 if the non-penetratring gsw June sustained to her chest was independent of the 7 penetrating gsw's.

How can it be proved that the ammunition used was taken from the kitchen counter and not some other location?
I think that is an important question.
Moderation
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Offline Myster

Re: Statement Analysis of JB`s statements
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2020, 01:20:58 PM »
I think that is an important question.
I think we can safely say that any photos of boxed or emptied ammunition on the desk in the den, on the settle in the scullery or elsewhere other than on the kitchen worktop would have been available to prosecution and defence at the time of trial.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Caroline

Re: Statement Analysis of JB`s statements
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2020, 02:13:12 PM »
8((()*/

No I don't think it's ridiculous on the basis some of the spent casings contained marks showing they had been loaded into the mag on at least one previous occasion.

Did the 29 found on the counter and one in the box show any such marks?

Also we only have limited images depicting the pile in the kitchen.  How do we know there wasn't a little pile in the office eg NB's desk or some other place?

Why would that mean they were taken from elsewhere? You post is basically saying "I don't like the evidence so I will make up my own to suit". IF, as you say, they were taken from another place (although why they would be when there is a ready pile on the kitchen bench), they would have been loaded consecutively - they couldn't have been from the ballistics report.

Offline Ady37

Re: Statement Analysis of JB`s statements
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2020, 09:57:00 PM »
The rifle and ammunition were taken out under the pretext of shooting two rabbits. They were then left out which set the stage for the murders. If the rabbits did not exist then JB has lied about the reason for getting the gun out. If he has lied about why he got the gun out then it is clear the only other reason was to commit the murders. I showed how his “rushing” was deceptive in an earlier post as it conflicted all his actions. He sought to limit the damage in his Aug 8th statement but it was too late.

Consider this from his Aug 8th statement-

“I had something to eat standing up by the sink and did not sit at the table. I joined in on the discussion all 3 were having in relation to future plans for Sheila and the children.”

JB carries on elaborating on what things were spoken about and a few sentences later he says –

“Whilst I was there Sheila did not say anything, make any objections or agreements. She just appeared vacant.”

JB said “all 3” were having a discussion but later refutes it by saying “Sheila did not say anything”. We believe what people say until they talk us out of it.  JB says “whilst I was there” which speaks to time. By saying “whilst”, he is saying during all the time he was there. How can “all 3” be having a discussion yet Sheila did not say anything? Notice he said “all” 3 were having a discussion; when could have said “they” were having a discussion. By saying “all” he seeks to emphasise his words. This speaks to a need to convince. His brain doesn’t feel “they” is convincing enough so it seeks to strengthen the words and use the all-encompassing “all” in its place. It is possible Sheila wasn’t there and by saying “all” he is seeking to convince others she was. Why would an innocent man be making so many deceptive statements?

The best way to determine if someone is telling the truth is to believe what they are telling you. Let their words guide you. If someone tells you they have a bad back, believe them.  When they later tell you they were laying flags in their back garden at the time of a robbery then alarm bells should be ringing. When the man asked about how his relationship is with his wife answers, “I have never hit her”, we wonder why is he talking about what he has never done. Why would "hitting" be the first thing to pop into his mind in connection to his wife.

Adrian.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Statement Analysis of JB`s statements
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2020, 12:27:39 PM »

How would any court function if trials were conducted on a basis of X being found/known, but there being the possibility that Z might have been found elsewhere?  Good to see you posting again.


 8((()*/ A bit of travelling and a lot of home improvements and gardening have kept me at bay!   

Afaik nothing much was made of this aspect of the case at trial perhaps because nothing much can be argued either way.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Statement Analysis of JB`s statements
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2020, 12:36:09 PM »
I think we can safely say that any photos of boxed or emptied ammunition on the desk in the den, on the settle in the scullery or elsewhere other than on the kitchen worktop would have been available to prosecution and defence at the time of trial.

Photos of the blood stained stairs carpet and distribution across kitchen floor were not made available so what makes you sure about any casings?  Also if a small pile were in say an ashtray or such like and used in the shootings they wouldn't be available for photographing!  No reason DCI Bird would photograph a couple of loose casings hanging around assuming they were even observed.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Statement Analysis of JB`s statements
« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2020, 12:46:15 PM »
Why would that mean they were taken from elsewhere? You post is basically saying "I don't like the evidence so I will make up my own to suit". IF, as you say, they were taken from another place (although why they would be when there is a ready pile on the kitchen bench), they would have been loaded consecutively - they couldn't have been from the ballistics report.

I don't believe the casings on the counter are evidence of anything.

A full box contains 50.  25 or 26 were used against victims.  A total of 30 found on the counter.  The maths doesn't add up.

Spent casings revealed microscopic markings showing some had been loaded into the mag on more than one occasion which provides some evidence that those used against victims came from another source independent of the box on counter.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Caroline

Re: Statement Analysis of JB`s statements
« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2020, 01:15:07 PM »
I don't believe the casings on the counter are evidence of anything.

A full box contains 50.  25 or 26 were used against victims.  A total of 30 found on the counter.  The maths doesn't add up.

Spent casings revealed microscopic markings showing some had been loaded into the mag on more than one occasion which provides some evidence that those used against victims came from another source independent of the box on counter.

That's the problem, the maths don't add up and it doesn't suggest they came from another source at all. The likelihood is that they were once loaded in the magazine and later placed back in the box. They were tipped on the counter and randomly loaded into the rifle. IF they had been in an ashtray they would have been loaded consecutively and fired that way. The ballistics report shows that they were not.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Statement Analysis of JB`s statements
« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2020, 11:25:59 AM »
That's the problem, the maths don't add up and it doesn't suggest they came from another source at all. The likelihood is that they were once loaded in the magazine and later placed back in the box. They were tipped on the counter and randomly loaded into the rifle. IF they had been in an ashtray they would have been loaded consecutively and fired that way. The ballistics report shows that they were not.

Bue regardless of whether the marked casings had been placed back in the box found on the counter at some stage or not the maths doesn't add up so I don't see how this aspect of the case implicates JB?

I really can't see many blokes fiddling about with such tiny objects putting them back in their individual holes within the box.  More likely to just dump them on the desk in an ashtray or such like.  But that's an assumption on my part! 

Were the unspent casings on the counter microscopically analysed for the marks or just the spent casings?

My view is the casings on the counter are a red herring and those used against the victims came from another location.

Which ballistics report are you referring to?
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Ady37

Re: Statement Analysis of JB`s statements
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2020, 11:45:06 PM »
The rifle and bullets were there for a reason. JB says –

“As I was loading I [would] have been a side view to where Sheila was sitting. She [would] have had a good view of what I was doing. I had my back to my parents.”

The word “would” sets conditions. “I would have posted the letter but it was raining” speaks to something which would have been done but it wasn’t, and we see it was the rain which stopped it occurring. The condition was the weather. If someone is asked what they did 10 years ago on a particular day, we know that is going to be difficult for them to answer due to the length of time and the effect that will have on them being able to recall the event. The person may have to guess what they did and it’s likely we will see them use the word “would” in their account. Instead of them saying they “went” to work that day they may say I “would” have gone to work that day. That is because they are not certain so they cannot commit to what they did, and by using the word “would” they put conditions on the statement. For instance they may know where they worked at that time but are not sure if they worked that day. They could have been ill or on holiday etc… They “would” have gone to work if the conditions were right, that being they weren’t sick or on holiday etc…

JB says Sheila “[would] have been a side view” which sets conditions on his statement. He could have said Sheila “[was] at a side view” but his mind didn’t send that to his mouth. Also he says “She [would] have had a good view” instead of “she [had] a good view”. Note what he says about his parents “I [had] my back to my parents”. He didn’t say he “would” have had his back to them; he makes the strong statement “I had”. I believe him when he says that, but I don’t believe what he says about Sheila. He has put conditions on what his position was relative to Sheila and also what she could see. Here he is storytelling again, he will not commit to his words which signals deception. In a previous post I pointed out instead of saying “they” when talking about his mum, dad and Sheila, he said “all 3 of them” which shows he had a need to convince that "all 3" were in a discussion. Add that to his use of “would” as I have outlined above and it likely Sheila wasn’t even there at this point of his story.

He wants us to believe that the ammunition and gun were easily available to Sheila, and it`s true they were as he had placed them out ready, laying the table (literally) so to speak.

From America come many stories of children finding a parents gun in a drawer or other location and taking it out and killing themselves or another sibling with it by accident. Imagine the devastation the parents go through knowing that if the gun had been secured properly their child would still be alive. Many times we hear the parents blaming themselves for the tragedy and saying things like “It’s all my fault” or “They died because of me”. This is because they take full responsibility even though they weren’t there or involved in the actual shooting incident. In other instances we see family members take the blame for something that wasn’t their fault. The mother or other family member of a missing or dead child will say “it’s my fault I should have never let them go to that party” or wherever they had gone prior to the tragedy. This is human nature as we seek to protect those we love. When this behaviour is absent we question why.

Did JB take any responsibility for leaving the gun and ammunition out; did he hound the Police every day asking what progress they had made in finding the killer/s of his family? Did he interrogate workers at the farm as to what they might know about what had happened or wake up in the middle of the night and ring the police because he had thought of a scrap of information which may aid them in finding the killer/s? All these things and more are expected behaviour in such circumstances and when they are absent it signals that these things are not important to the person in question.

Adrian.

Offline Caroline

Re: Statement Analysis of JB`s statements
« Reply #29 on: October 06, 2020, 02:59:04 AM »
Bue regardless of whether the marked casings had been placed back in the box found on the counter at some stage or not the maths doesn't add up so I don't see how this aspect of the case implicates JB?

I really can't see many blokes fiddling about with such tiny objects putting them back in their individual holes within the box.  More likely to just dump them on the desk in an ashtray or such like.  But that's an assumption on my part! 

Were the unspent casings on the counter microscopically analysed for the marks or just the spent casings?

My view is the casings on the counter are a red herring and those used against the victims came from another location.

Which ballistics report are you referring to?

You don't own guns but what do you mean - they don't add up?

I'll find the report and post it later.