UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Vertigo Swirl on October 14, 2018, 03:21:22 PM
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There is a view that the McCanns are still being investigated by, at the very least, the PJ, if not also the Met, despite repeated assurances from the police that the McCanns are not suspects. So, assuming these assurances are lies, then what avenues of investigation are open to the police, particuarly the PJ as far as the McCanns are concerned?
Forensics? CCTV? Re-interviews? What? And what evidence is there that the McCanns are currently under investigation?
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There is a view that the McCanns are still being investigated by, at the very least, the PJ, if not also the Met, despite repeated assurances from the police that the McCanns are not suspects. So, assuming these assurances are lies, then what avenues of investigation are open to the police, particuarly the PJ as far as the McCanns are concerned?
Forensics? CCTV? Re-interviews? What? And what evidence is there that the McCanns are currently under investigation?
The PJ reopened their case in 2013 and invited Madeleine's parents to a meeting with them and Scotland Yard at the time of making the announcement.
Have they ever sought to question the parents at any time since?
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The PJ reopened their case in 2013 and invited Madeleine's parents to a meeting with them and Scotland Yard at the time of making the announcement.
Have they ever sought to question the parents at any time since?
How would we know?
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How would we know?
If the PJ considered the McCanns suspects and wanted to question them they would have to present new grounds for suspicion in order to make them arguidos. Do you think this has happened?
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If the PJ considered the McCanns suspects and wanted to question them they would have to present new grounds for suspicion in order to make them arguidos. Do you think this has happened?
I give you the same answer. How would we know?
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I give you the same answer. How would we know?
The same way we knew when the other most recent arguidos were constituted probably.
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The same way we knew when the other most recent arguidos were constituted probably.
And what way was that?
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And what way was that?
No idea, only that the media found out and it was plastered all over the world’s press. These were unknowns too, imagine if the McCanns were made arguidos again, that would be a sendational development and certainly would make someone a fair few quid divulging such a piece of news to the media.
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If the PJ considered the McCanns suspects and wanted to question them they would have to present new grounds for suspicion in order to make them arguidos. Do you think this has happened?
Well as yet nothing else has happened either....
SY IMO has done a poor job...trying to find proof of abduction....or an abductor...
They should have started from the beginning in the first place...
Not as you think where the PJ left off...
They then may have got somewhere IMO......
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Well as yet nothing else has happened either....
SY IMO has done a poor job...trying to find proof of abduction....or an abductor...
They should have started from the beginning in the first place...
Not as you think where the PJ left off...
They then may have got somewhere IMO......
You can't find what doesn't exist
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The weak point in the case is Russell O'Brien (ROB). IMO if the SY detectives were able to make a plea deal with ROB the issue of parental involvement would be settled.
In fact I tend to think this has already happened based on what I heard Mark Rowley saying some years back.
Words like "However Madeleine left the apartment, she was abducted".
"However" is a word that only makes sense if he knew more than he was letting on.
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You can't find what doesn't exist
same thoughts here .... 8((()*/
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You can't find what doesn't exist
What doesn’t exist?
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What doesn’t exist?
All sorts of things so it's a waste of time looking for them.
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All sorts of things so it's a waste of time looking for them.
I think detective work is like this, there are many more dead ends than connections. Keep looking I'd say.
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I think detective work is like this, there are many more dead ends than connections. Keep looking I'd say.
what for even more deadends......
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I think detective work is like this, there are many more dead ends than connections. Keep looking I'd say.
You are absolutely right.....it's plodding away at dead ends...until the breakthrough comes
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what for even more deadends......
If you don't look you won't find anything.
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All sorts of things so it's a waste of time looking for them.
You mean like evidence that the McCanns hid their child’s body?
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There is a view that the McCanns are still being investigated by, at the very least, the PJ, if not also the Met, despite repeated assurances from the police that the McCanns are not suspects. So, assuming these assurances are lies, then what avenues of investigation are open to the police, particuarly the PJ as far as the McCanns are concerned?
Forensics? CCTV? Re-interviews? What? And what evidence is there that the McCanns are currently under investigation?
There is no evidence from the police that they are being investigated but from past cases that doesn't necessarily matter. New forensics were probably included in an ILOR by Nicola Wall in 2015.
Sep 3, 2015
"But top Portuguese sources insist there was no evidence to suggest Operation Grange was going to be shut down at any point in the near future.
And they said they were expecting to receive a new international letter of request shortly from UK authorities - the second since DCI Nicola Wall took over from previous Operation Grange boss Andy Redwood at the end of last year but the first she will have been involved in preparing."
Responding to grumbles about the cost of Scotland Yard's probe and fresh claims it should be wound down, the Portuguese source insisted: "Nothing is going to be shelved.
"Co-operation right now between the British and the Portuguese police is at a moment of great synchronisation."
In May, Portugal's Attorney General's Office revealed: "Since August 2012, the Public Prosecution Service of Portimao has received five British requests for international cooperation in criminal matters, the last of which has been received on January 2015.
"Three of these requests have been already executed and their pieces of execution were returned to the requesting authorities. The execution of two of them is still pending.
The Prosecutor General's Office does not provide information on the content of the requests presented by the British authorities."
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/602598/Madeleine-McCann-case-not-to-close
Oct 28, 2015
Police are to scale back the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, with the number of officers on the team cut from 29 to four.
The Metropolitan police said Operation Grange would now only focus on a “small number of focused lines of inquiry that have allowed them to reduce the size of the Home Office funded team”.
The four officers who remain on the team will continue to be led by DCI Nicola Wall, the current senior investigating officer, and sit within an existing major investigation team on the homicide and major crime command.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/28/met-reduces-officers-madeleine-mccann-case-29-to-four
Apr 29, 2016
During a radio interview this week, Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe said he believed there was “one final lead” in the case.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/28/madeleine-mccann-abducted-during-botched-burglary/
Apr 26, 2017
London Metropolitan Police Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley said investigators still hope they can provide answers to what happened.
"I know we have a significant line of inquiry which is worth pursuing,” he said. “Because it's worth pursuing it could provide an answer, but until we've gone through it I won't know whether we are going to get there or not."
"Ourselves and the Portuguese are doing a critical piece of work and we don't want to spoil it by putting titbits of information out publicly."
https://www.newstalk.com/Investigators-pursuing-critical-lead-in-search-for-Madeleine-McCann
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You can't find what doesn't exist
In my opinion it does, but would take some proving against the people that I have researched and who seem to be behind it all. Untouchables in most cases.
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The weak point in the case is Russell O'Brien (ROB). IMO if the SY detectives were able to make a plea deal with ROB the issue of parental involvement would be settled.
In fact I tend to think this has already happened based on what I heard Mark Rowley saying some years back.
Words like "However Madeleine left the apartment, she was abducted".
"However" is a word that only makes sense if he knew more than he was letting on.
It makes sense if you take account of his previous words. He said something like 'she wasn't old enough to go off and start a new life'. In other words she didn't leave voluntarily, therefore she was abducted, which means;
the action of forcibly taking someone away against their will.
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It makes sense if you take account of his previous words. He said something like 'she wasn't old enough to go off and start a new life'. In other words she didn't leave voluntarily, therefore she was abducted, which means;
the action of forcibly taking someone away against their will.
Without a single reference to a stranger.
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If you don't look you won't find anything.
you won't find anything anyway ...as has been shown...
apart from spending a lot of peoples money ....doing so....
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It makes sense if you take account of his previous words. He said something like 'she wasn't old enough to go off and start a new life'. In other words she didn't leave voluntarily, therefore she was abducted, which means;
the action of forcibly taking someone away against their will.
They were words he used after the "However" bit.
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They were words he used after the "However" bit.
In other words; no matter how she left the apartment she was abducted.
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you won't find anything anyway ...as has been shown...
apart from spending a lot of peoples money ....doing so....
We don't know this as yet.
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In other words; no matter how she left the apartment she was abducted.
Which rules out woke and wandered, leaving alleged stranger abduction or alleged parental involvement doesn't it?
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Which rules out woke and wandered, leaving alleged stranger abduction or alleged parental involvement doesn't it?
I suppose he could be allowing for her to have set off on her own with a destination in mind which didn't include starting a new life. As she didn't reach her destination she was abducted along the way. .
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In other words; no matter how she left the apartment she was abducted.
Exactly. So those that are responsible for her leaving the apartment are not as much a concern as the person who abducted her. That is how I understood it IMO.
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Which rules out woke and wandered, leaving alleged stranger abduction or alleged parental involvement doesn't it?
How do you work that out?
Can you take us through your logical steps to reach that conclusion please?
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There is a view that the McCanns are still being investigated by, at the very least, the PJ, if not also the Met, despite repeated assurances from the police that the McCanns are not suspects. So, assuming these assurances are lies, then what avenues of investigation are open to the police, particuarly the PJ as far as the McCanns are concerned?
Forensics? CCTV? Re-interviews? What? And what evidence is there that the McCanns are currently under investigation?
The police would have been failing in their duty if they didn't investigate all scenarios regardless of how implausible they are.
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Exactly. So those that are responsible for her leaving the apartment are not as much a concern as the person who abducted her. That is how I understood it IMO.
There's no need for anyone to be directly involved if she left by herself.
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How do you work that out?
Can you take us through your logical steps to reach that conclusion please?
Simples really and it doesn't need much logic,"however" was the word used by Rowley,in this case I believe he meant it to be the manner,ergo she left the apartment in this manner,pays your money take a choice.
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The police would have been failing in their duty if they didn't investigate all scenarios regardless of how implausible they are.
So that’s why I’m asking the question. What further avenues of investigation are left for thr PJ to explore vis-a-vis the McCanns? Which stones did the original PJ investigation leave unturned?
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So that’s why I’m asking the question. What further avenues of investigation are left for thr PJ to explore vis-a-vis the McCanns? Which stones did the original PJ investigation leave unturned?
The wheelie bin one, perchance?
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So that’s why I’m asking the question. What further avenues of investigation are left for thr PJ to explore vis-a-vis the McCanns? Which stones did the original PJ investigation leave unturned?
Reconstruction. Thanks to the McCanns tapas friends that never happened.
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The wheelie bin one, perchance?
And how do you imagine they will go about investigating that particular theory, one which you pooh-poohed yourself some time ago I believe?
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And how do you imagine they will go about investigating that particular theory, one which you pooh-poohed yourself some time ago I believe?
They have access to records that I don't.
They could follow the 2007 wheelie bin trail.
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Reconstruction. Thanks to the McCanns tapas friends that never happened.
And is never likely to happen - with the original group that is. What value could there be in a reconstruction now, using stand-ins? How would the police know which of the slightly differing accounts to use, and what could it possibly reveal? It seems unlikely that the current investigation has taken this course of action as we would presumably have heard about it via the media, it being necessary to conduct it in a public place.
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They have access to records that I don't.
They could follow the 2007 wheelie bin trail.
@)(++(* OK. They would follow it all the way to a great big landfill and then what? Dig up 11 years of garbage in the vain hope of finding a few bones which would reveal what about the McCanns’ alleged involvement?
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They have access to records that I don't.
They could follow the 2007 wheelie bin trail.
The trouble with that after all this time is to compare it with the C McKeague case where a big strapping lad like him couldn't be found.
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There is a view that the McCanns are still being investigated by, at the very least, the PJ, if not also the Met, despite repeated assurances from the police that the McCanns are not suspects. So, assuming these assurances are lies, then what avenues of investigation are open to the police, particuarly the PJ as far as the McCanns are concerned?
Forensics? CCTV? Re-interviews? What? And what evidence is there that the McCanns are currently under investigation?
There are many things still to be investigated which involved the family or those associated with it and the Maddie Fund. I refer of course to the post disappearance debacle involving Oakley and Metodo 3.
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There are many things still to be investigated which involved the family or those associated with it and the Maddie Fund. I refer of course to the post disappearance debacle involving Oakley and Metodo 3.
I think you are dreaming
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There's no need for anyone to be directly involved if she left by herself.
But as I have proven that if she left by the front door the door would have been found unlocked, and there was no official report of the front door being unlocked.
So "if she left by herself" you have to say by which portal she exited the apartment.
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@)(++(* OK. They would follow it all the way to a great big landfill and then what? Dig up 11 years of garbage in the vain hope of finding a few bones which would reveal what about the McCanns’ alleged involvement?
The exercise would accurately assess the probability thereof.
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And is never likely to happen - with the original group that is. What value could there be in a reconstruction now, using stand-ins? How would the police know which of the slightly differing accounts to use, and what could it possibly reveal? It seems unlikely that the current investigation has taken this course of action as we would presumably have heard about it via the media, it being necessary to conduct it in a public place.
I wasn't considering using stand ins but the original people. It would help narrow down a possible time for any possible abduction and also may jog peoples memories even after all this time. all IMO
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The exercise would accurately assess the probability thereof.
How so?
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I wasn't considering using stand ins but the original people. It would help narrow down a possible time for any possible abduction and also may jog peoples memories even after all this time. all IMO
The Met have already established a window of opportunity for Madeleine to be taken, so that would duplicate their work. After 11 years I think any memories that were going to be jogged have probably faded into the ether.
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How so?
If digging up the landfill found Madeleine's bones at least the couple would have closure. Wouldn't you support that?
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How so?
By checking the probability thereof, using records and legwork.
I had a comment on my blog recently enquiring about bin emptying even as the initial searches were being conducted. I don't think that happened, but without an exhaustive check, I cannot be certain.
The PJ are best placed to remove the uncertainties.
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If digging up the landfill found Madeleine's bones at least the couple would have closure. Wouldn't you support that?
I certainly would, however this thread is not about bringing closure to the McCanns but about what if anything the PJ have been doing since the investigation was re-opened to amass evidence of the McCanns’ guilt. Say they found Madelein’s remains eleven years after being buried in landfill, what sort of clues do you think these would yield that would support thr case against the parents?
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I certainly would, however this thread is not about bringing closure to the McCanns but about what if anything the PJ have been doing since the investigation was re-opened to amass evidence of the McCanns’ guilt. Say they found Madelein’s remains eleven years after being buried in landfill, what sort of clues do you think these would yield that would support thr case against the parents?
It would depend upon any forensics found on the body or clothing I would imagine. I can't imagine a burglar removing Madeleine's body from 5a and putting it in a bin of course.
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I certainly would, however this thread is not about bringing closure to the McCanns but about what if anything the PJ have been doing since the investigation was re-opened to amass evidence of the McCanns’ guilt. Say they found Madelein’s remains eleven years after being buried in landfill, what sort of clues do you think these would yield that would support thr case against the parents?
Landfills are like giant compost heaps and can generate huge amounts of heat.....I doubt there would be anything left of any body after 11 years
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It would depend upon any forensics found on the body or clothing I would imagine. I can't imagine a burglar removing Madeleine's body from 5a and putting it in a bin of course.
What sort of forensics would you expect to be found on a few bones that would point to McCann involvement. You can’t imagine an abductor putting a child’s body in a bin, can you imagine a parent doing it though?
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I think you are dreaming
I bet there are several others who would want those particular episodes to disappear just like Halligen but I can assure you it won't. It is a irrefutable fact that money was paid to foreign agents to take down Goncalo Amaral.
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I bet there are several others who would want those particular episodes to disappear just like Halligen but I can assure you it won't.
You can assure me of nothing....if it was a realistic point surely amaral would have mentioned it....you have given your evidence here and none of it stacks up..imo
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Landfills are like giant compost heaps and can generate huge amounts of heat.....I doubt there would be anything left of any body after 11 years
I think we need a cite for that assertion.
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Landfills are like giant compost heaps and can generate huge amounts of heat.....I doubt there would be anything left of any body after 11 years
Actually the opposite has happened to landfill material. Due to the lack of oxygen within the debris it decomposes more slowly than normal. I have seen a documentary about it recently where newspapers buried in 1986 were still readable.
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I bet there are several others who would want those particular episodes to disappear just like Halligen but I can assure you it won't. It is a irrefutable fact that money was paid to foreign agents to take down Goncalo Amaral.
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Can you post the links which prove it is irrefutable that " money was paid to foreigners to take down ga.?
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Reconstruction. Thanks to the McCanns tapas friends that never happened.
Oh I don't know!
The PJ had state of the art software contrary to popular myth.
There are indications they performed a desktop study of the alleged movements taken from statements.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/OUSTROS_APENSOS_11_VOLUMES.htm
p.s it is not just about phone calls as the heading may suggest.
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Actually the opposite has happened to landfill material. Due to the lack of oxygen within the debris it decomposes more slowly than normal. I have seen a documentary about it recently where newspapers buried in 1986 were still readable.
No cite forthcoming from davel so I'll help out.
Landfill sites operate at 300C to 550C.
Bone needs about 15000C to be destroyed.
Collagen in bone starts to break down at about 2200C but the "bone" retains its shape.
Landfill sites produce methane which has an autocombust temp around 6000C.
Hmmm something don't hang together with original assertion.
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No cite forthcoming from davel so I'll help out.
Landfill sites operate at 300C to 550C.
Bone needs about 15000C to be destroyed.
Collagen in bone starts to break down at about 2200C but the "bone" retains its shape.
Landfill sites produce methane which has an autocombust temp around 6000C.
Hmmm something don't hang together with original assertion.
An interesting article that explains that landfills almost mummify items as they decompose very, very, slowly.
https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/znwnma/in-todays-landfills-food-is-embalmed-for-decades-at-a-time
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No cite forthcoming from davel so I'll help out.
Landfill sites operate at 300C to 550C.
Bone needs about 15000C to be destroyed.
Collagen in bone starts to break down at about 2200C but the "bone" retains its shape.
Landfill sites produce methane which has an autocombust temp around 6000C.
Hmmm something don't hang together with original assertion.
Can they do DNA tests on bones after they have been in a landfill for years?
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Can they do DNA tests on bones after they have been in a landfill for years?
Yes Rob.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3727341/Body-discovered-landfill-nearly-50-years-ago-identified-13-year-old-Pittsburgh-girl.html
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Can they do DNA tests on bones after they have been in a landfill for years?
I should imagine so, but how would the bones yield any evidence of McCann involvement?
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Can they do DNA tests on bones after they have been in a landfill for years?
Why would a landfill be any different from any other hole in the ground?
There was no trouble with Richard III in his car park.
I expect however there is some odd warp or other that makes Algarve landfill sites exceptions to any known rule.
It seems to be de rigeur.
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I should imagine so, but how would the bones yield any evidence of McCann involvement?
OK if the DNA could tested and it confirmed a body from a landfill was MM than at least the McCann parents could spend the money in the fund searching for other missing children.
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Yes Rob.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3727341/Body-discovered-landfill-nearly-50-years-ago-identified-13-year-old-Pittsburgh-girl.html
I wasn't sure if that body had been through the full heating process of a landfill or had just been found at a landfill.
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OK if the DNA could tested and it confirmed a body from a landfill was MM than at least the McCann parents could spend the money in the fund searching for other missing children.
True, but that’s beside the point. This thread is about what further avenues for investigation are open to the PJ to enable them to build a case against the McCanns, something which some people belive the PJ have diligently been working on for the last five years.
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I wasn't sure if that body had been through the full heating process of a landfill or had just been found at a landfill.
I think the fact that the child had been missing for 50 years was a clue Rob.
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True, but that’s beside the point. This thread is about what further avenues for investigation are open to the PJ to enable them to build a case against the McCanns, something which some people belive the PJ have diligently been working on for the last five years.
While there is a chance of an abductor the finger can't be pointed at the McCanns, but if they found a body it comes back to someone that was there that night. OK not only the McCanns but all the people there that night.
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I wasn't sure if that body had been through the full heating process of a landfill or had just been found at a landfill.
Up to 550C ?
One can hold an object that is 550C without burning skin.
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Up to 550C ?
One can hold an object that is 550C without burning skin.
I have been on holiday when it was hotter than that Alice.
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I have been on holiday when it was hotter than that Alice.
The highest temperature ever recorded on earth was 56.7 degrees, where did you go on your holiday - Venus?
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The highest temperature ever recorded on earth was 56.7 degrees, where did you go on your holiday - Venus?
OK I think I was wrong. I Have just checked and it was just over 50 degrees. Still a little warm.
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I think the fact that the child had been missing for 50 years was a clue Rob.
"A body that was discovered in a landfill in Pennsylvania nearly 50 years ago has been identified as a 13-year-old Pittsburgh girl who was last seen in 1967.
DNA tests show that the body, which had been exhumed from an unmarked grave from a cemetery potter's field last fall, is that of Teala Patricia Thompson, Pennsylvania State Police said Thursday."
So most of the time it was in a grave rather than a landfill. At the landfill it might have only been on the surface and discovered quickly.
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Up to 550C ?
One can hold an object that is 550C without burning skin.
At work hand wash water was targeted to be 42 degrees. If it ever got over 45 degrees it became uncomfortable 49 degrees is too hot you will pull yours hands out of the flow. Whether 55 degree would denature DNA I'm not sure but I think you could cook meat at 55 degrees.
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OK I think I was wrong. I Have just checked and it was just over 50 degrees. Still a little warm.
Imagine a body left in that heat!
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At work hand wash water was targeted to be 42 degrees. If it ever got over 45 degrees it became uncomfortable 49 degrees is too hot you will pull yours hands out of the flow. Whether 55 degree would denature DNA I'm not sure but I think you could cook meat at 55 degrees.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-temperature_cooking
"Low-temperature cooking is a cooking technique using temperatures of 45 to 85 °C (113 to 185 °F) for a prolonged time to cook food. Low-temperature cooking methods include sous vide cooking, slow cooking using a slow cooker, cooking in a normal oven which has a minimal setting of 70 °C (158 °F), and using a combi steamer providing exact temperature control."
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At work hand wash water was targeted to be 42 degrees. If it ever got over 45 degrees it became uncomfortable 49 degrees is too hot you will pull yours hands out of the flow. Whether 55 degree would denature DNA I'm not sure but I think you could cook meat at 55 degrees.
That may be so but it does not negate my comment.
The point goes back to davel's post where he stated, and I paraphrase but the sense does not change, "an enormous amount of heat is generated by landfill enough to destroy etc......"
My points were:
1) Landfill sites are run at 350C to 550C high temperatures ie 900 C and above damage the polymer membranes that are required [Refer EPA and DEFRA].
2) 550C is not enough to burn skin hence protective insulation for pipes carrying a hot medium is fitted at 600C. [Refer ASTM C1055 & BS5970].
3) Collagen requires a temperature of 2000C to break down.
4) Bone is destroyed at a temp of 15000C
Beyond those points speculate away but deal me out.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-temperature_cooking
"Low-temperature cooking is a cooking technique using temperatures of 45 to 85 °C (113 to 185 °F) for a prolonged time to cook food. Low-temperature cooking methods include sous vide cooking, slow cooking using a slow cooker, cooking in a normal oven which has a minimal setting of 70 °C (158 °F), and using a combi steamer providing exact temperature control."
All of your slow cooler cooking involve water. There would be very little water in the landfill site. That is why landfill sites will mummify matter. The water leaches out of a landfill site into the local groundwater. If you watch this link below will see what happens to things in a landfill. Near the end (around 1hr 08mins) they excavate a 30 year old landfill and it is amazing what they find.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NPudQIgAWE
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All of your slow cooler cooking involve water. There would be very little water in the landfill site. That is why landfill sites will mummify matter. The water leaches out of a landfill site into the local groundwater. If you watch this link below will see what happens to things in a landfill. Near the end (around 1hr 08mins) they excavate a 30 year old landfill and it is amazing what they find.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NPudQIgAWE
They didn’t show many intact tubs of guacamole, it all looked like metal and plastic to me :-/
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All of your slow cooler cooking involve water. There would be very little water in the landfill site. That is why landfill sites will mummify matter. The water leaches out of a landfill site into the local groundwater. If you watch this link below will see what happens to things in a landfill. Near the end (around 1hr 08mins) they excavate a 30 year old landfill and it is amazing what they find.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NPudQIgAWE
Sous Vide involves an airtight bag with no water inside... Please correct your post according ly
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There was a case recently of a young man whose body was presumed to have been carried in a garbage truck to the tip and buried. It happened within the last couple of years or so. I believe the tip was extensively searched but no body was discovered, though the police are adamant that’s where he ended up. I believe his family have accepted this the most likely explanation for his disappearance. Given that the police couldn’t find a grown man in landfill a year or two after his disappearance, what is the likelihood of being able to find a small girl’s body buried 11 years hence? And what could the body tell the police to help them secure a conviction against the McCanns anyway?
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Part of police remit was to discover what happened to Madeleine.
Discovery of her body would go some way towards that.
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Sous Vide involves an airtight bag with no water inside... Please correct your post according ly
I think not
Sous-vide cooking
Sous-vide (/suːˈviːd/; French for "under vacuum")[1] is a method of cooking in which food is placed in a plastic pouch or a glass jar and cooked in a water bath or steam environment for longer than normal cooking times (usually 1 to 7 hours, up to 48 or more in some cases) at an accurately regulated temperature. The temperature is much lower than normally used for cooking, typically around 55 to 60 °C (131 to 140 °F) for meat, higher for vegetables. The intent is to cook the item evenly, ensuring that the inside is properly cooked without overcooking the outside, and to retain moisture.
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Part of police remit was to discover what happened to Madeleine.
Discovery of her body would go some way towards that.
Yes I am aware of that, however someone else on this thread suggested that the PJ would be looking for her body in the landfill in order to find evidence against the McCanns, which incidentally is what this thread is about.
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Sous Vide involves an airtight bag with no water inside... Please correct your post according ly
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Yes I am aware of that, however someone else on this thread suggested that the PJ would be looking for her body in the landfill in order to find evidence against the McCanns, which incidentally is what this thread is about.
Crikey! Who was that?
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There was a case recently of a young man whose body was presumed to have been carried in a garbage truck to the tip and buried. It happened within the last couple of years or so. I believe the tip was extensively searched but no body was discovered, though the police are adamant that’s where he ended up. I believe his family have accepted this the most likely explanation for his disappearance. Given that the police couldn’t find a grown man in landfill a year or two after his disappearance, what is the likelihood of being able to find a small girl’s body buried 11 years hence? And what could the body tell the police to help them secure a conviction against the McCanns anyway?
I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand. Stranger and more unlikely things have happened.
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Crikey! Who was that?
Crikey! Your short term memory appears to be failing you.
ME: What further avenues of investigation are left for thr PJ to explore vis-a-vis the McCanns? Which stones did the original PJ investigation leave unturned?
YOU: The wheelie bin one, perchance?
Hence why we’re now having a discussion about cooking methods and mummified guacamole.
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I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand. Stranger and more unlikely things have happened.
So the questions remain - given that it shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand, what efforts have the PJ made to find Madeleine’s body in landfill and what clues pointing to McCann involvement would an eleven year old corpse burried under tons of landfill possibly reveal?
Rhetorical of course, not expecting even the smartest arse to know the answers to these questions.
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So the questions remain - given that it shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand, what efforts have the PJ made to find Madeleine’s body in landfill and what clues pointing to McCann involvement would an eleven year old corpse burried under tons of landfill possibly reveal?
Rhetorical of course, not expecting even the smartest arse to know the answers to these questions.
Then why bother posting it?
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So the questions remain - given that it shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand, what efforts have the PJ made to find Madeleine’s body in landfill and what clues pointing to McCann involvement would an eleven year old corpse burried under tons of landfill possibly reveal?
Rhetorical of course, not expecting even the smartest arse to know the answers to these questions.
Seeing as they have been able to ascertain what these pharaohs died from
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2015/03/150303-pharaoh-senebkay-forensic-skeleton-abydos-egypt-archaeology/
And this one
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/9752002/Pharaohs-murder-riddle-solved-after-3000-years.html
They died over 3000 years ago,, so you never know VS.
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Yes I am aware of that, however someone else on this thread suggested that the PJ would be looking for her body in the landfill in order to find evidence against the McCanns, which incidentally is what this thread is about.
Cobblers, I never did.
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@)(++(* OK. They would follow it all the way to a great big landfill and then what? Dig up 11 years of garbage in the vain hope of finding a few bones which would reveal what about the McCanns’ alleged involvement?
That would be you then VS.
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Then why bother posting it?
Because I can. 8(>((
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Cobblers, I never did.
What does “follow the wheelie bin trail” mean and how would this help amass evidence against the McCanns, or are you just going to refuse to shed any further light on your thought processes as usual?
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Sous Vide involves an airtight bag with no water inside... Please correct your post according ly
Cooked in a water bath of some sort.
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I think not
Sous-vide cooking
Sous-vide (/suːˈviːd/; French for "under vacuum")[1] is a method of cooking in which food is placed in a plastic pouch or a glass jar and cooked in a water bath or steam environment for longer than normal cooking times (usually 1 to 7 hours, up to 48 or more in some cases) at an accurately regulated temperature. The temperature is much lower than normally used for cooking, typically around 55 to 60 °C (131 to 140 °F) for meat, higher for vegetables. The intent is to cook the item evenly, ensuring that the inside is properly cooked without overcooking the outside, and to retain moisture.
The point I was originally making was that if flesh is exposed to temperatures of 55 degrees for long enough it will cook.
What I've discovered is that DNA is destroyed by higher temperatures. It seems like the DNA testing could still be done on Sous Vide cooked meat cooked at temperatures below 70 degrees Celcius.
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The point I was originally making was that if flesh is exposed to temperatures of 55 degrees for long enough it will cook.
What I've discovered is that DNA is destroyed by higher temperatures. It seems like the DNA testing could still be done on Sous Vide cooked meat cooked at temperatures below 70 degrees Celcius.
Steak cooked for 45 mins at 50 deg.. Then throw it on the barbie.... The collagen certainly breaks down at this temp
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Steak cooked for 45 mins at 50 deg.. Then throw it on the barbie.... The collagen certainly breaks down at this temp
I can see why you say you post here for fun because it can't be for any other reason.
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I can see why you say you post here for fun because it can't be for any other reason.
Admit it you know nothing about low temp cooking
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That would be you then VS.
And the reply to my post from SIL tends to suggest that that is exactly what he meant, unless you can discern another meaning from this:
“The exercise would accurately assess the probability thereof”
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And the reply to my post from SIL tends to suggest that that is exactly what he meant, unless you can discern another meaning from this:
“The exercise would accurately assess the probability thereof”
I believe sil has supported the body in the bin brigade in the past
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And the reply to my post from SIL tends to suggest that that is exactly what he meant, unless you can discern another meaning from this:
“The exercise would accurately assess the probability thereof”
SIL may have suggested it (in your mind at least) but YOU said it VS.
K. They would follow it all the way to a great big landfill and then what? Dig up 11 years of garbage in the vain hope of finding a few bones which would reveal what about the McCanns’ alleged involvement?
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SIL may have suggested it (in your mind at least) but YOU said it VS.
K. They would follow it all the way to a great big landfill and then what? Dig up 11 years of garbage in the vain hope of finding a few bones which would reveal what about the McCanns’ alleged involvement?
Your staunch defence of every sceptic I best in an argument is noted.
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Your staunch defence of every sceptic I best in an argument is noted.
My.my, so competitive , and to what end ?
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My.my, so competitive , and to what end ?
God. Every post that begins with “my, my”makes me want to gouge my eyes out.
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God. Every post that begins with “my, my”makes me want to gouge my eyes out.
My my how that must upset you
Oh dear. What a shame. Never mind.
@)(++(*
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God. Every post that begins with “my, my”makes me want to gouge my eyes out.
my my VS. Why not mellow down a bit. Best leave your eyes where they should be or we won't be able to enjoy your posts here.
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my my VS. Why not mellow down a bit. Best leave your eyes where they should be or we won't be able to enjoy your posts here.
I am totally mellow thanks for your comcern. Can I kindly request that you don’t address me again until you have something on topic to contribute, there’s a love.
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Admit it you know nothing about low temp cooking
I have never tried it myself. I wonder if it could be dangerous - food poisoning wise.
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I have never tried it myself. I wonder if it could be dangerous - food poisoning wise.
No it's very good... I think it relies on the principle of pasteurisation... Pork is cooked 70...good thing is you don't overcook meat and cheaper cuts can be cooked til tender
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Because I can. 8(>((
Coo coo daddyo that's the sort of answer I dig.
None of this higher plane mallarkey.
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I should think that there are a few more questions for the McCanns to answer to get nearer the truth, but that aint gonna happen.
They are home dry and free. to get on with their lives.
Oh mY Oh My.... just wanted to see if it worked! 8**8:/:
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I should think that there are a few more questions for the McCanns to answer to get nearer the truth, but that aint gonna happen.
They are hoem dry and free. to get on with their lives.
The sceptics must be pissed off with the current situation IMO.
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The sceptics must be pissed off with the current situation IMO.
Which situation and why?
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Which situation and why?
That the McCanns can get on with their lives. Why - because they want them to be charged IMO.
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That the McCanns can get on with their lives. Why - because they want them to be charged IMO.
That is interesting... care to name these sceptics or are you lobbing everyone into a box?
I couldn't care less what happens to them. I am more inclined to feel the same way about supporters... they never have had any debateand they have no comebacks to justify the 12 mil pounds. it must be disheartening that they pulled out the same as the PJ... not enough evidence to convict.
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What does “follow the wheelie bin trail” mean and how would this help amass evidence against the McCanns, or are you just going to refuse to shed any further light on your thought processes as usual?
The wheelie bin trail would apply to anyone with access to a wheelie bin. That is NOT McCann specific at all.
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That is interesting... care to name these sceptics or are you lobbing everyone into a box?
I couldn't care less what happens to them. I am more inclined to feel the same way about supporters... they never have had any debate and they have no comebacks to justify the 12 mil pounds. it must be disheartening that they pulled out the same as the PJ... not enough evidence to convict.
Who knows what any investigation costs? The McCann one had a method of tracking it so you know a figure.
I want both the PJ and SY to stop investigating the case.
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And the reply to my post from SIL tends to suggest that that is exactly what he meant, unless you can discern another meaning from this:
“The exercise would accurately assess the probability thereof”
That someone used the wheelie bin route.
Someone.
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I believe sil has supported the body in the bin brigade in the past
Goading.
(&^&
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Your staunch defence of every sceptic I best in an argument is noted.
(&^&
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The sceptics must be pissed off with the current situation IMO.
Probably. But there you go.
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That is interesting... care to name these sceptics or are you lobbing everyone into a box?
I couldn't care less what happens to them. I am more inclined to feel the same way about supporters... they never have had any debateand they have no comebacks to justify the 12 mil pounds. it must be disheartening that they pulled out the same as the PJ... not enough evidence to convict.
Could we have that in English, Please?
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The wheelie bin trail would apply to anyone with access to a wheelie bin. That is NOT McCann specific at all.
This thread is entitled “What routes are left to investigate re: The McCanns”, the post you chose to respond to furthermore asked the question again ie: it was on topic and McCann specific, your reply therefore could only be understood to be McCann specific as you did not make it clear you were posting in answer to a question that wasn’t asked.
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(&^&
Goading.
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That someone used the wheelie bin route.
Someone.
Once again, this thread is about what avenues of investigation are left to the PJ with regard to building a case against the McCanns, not any old person.
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That the McCanns can get on with their lives. Why - because they want them to be charged IMO.
There is no nice way of putting this so I will not try. Just gimme the points.
Sometimes you talk bollox and this is one of those times.
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There is no nice way of putting this so I will not try. Just gimme the points.
Sometimes you talk bollox and this is one of those times.
More projection. Of course those who believe the McCann hid their child’s body want them charged, why on earth would they not?
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This thread is entitled “What routes are left to investigate re: The McCanns”, the post you chose to respond to furthermore asked the question again ie: it was on topic and McCann specific, your reply therefore could only be understood to be McCann specific as you did not make it clear you were posting in answer to a question that wasn’t asked.
Balderdash. *&^^&
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Balderdash. *&^^&
In the context of the very specific thread topic it is my opinion that you have got it entirely wrong but it is also my opinion that disagreement should be expressed in a less offensive manner just by the simple expediency of making a case.
As Eleanor has noted ... we are a discussion forum. Surely we can discuss and agree to differ within the confines of a topic as adults should and without rancour.
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In the context of the very specific thread topic it is my opinion that you have got it entirely wrong but it is also my opinion that disagreement should be expressed in a less offensive manner just by the simple expediency of making a case.
As Eleanor has noted ... we are a discussion forum. Surely we can discuss and agree to differ within the confines of a topic as adults should and without rancour.
If only it were that simple. But I have had enough. This will be discussed politely, or not at all. I am no longer prepared to put up with the insults from either side.
Off Topic is half acceptable to me. But I will be deleting any nasty comments from anybody. from now on. And I will no longer be warning.
Do me a favour if you must. Report me to John, which we all know you do anyway, at the drop of a hat.
The simple answer would be to be polite. It isn't that difficult.
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There is no nice way of putting this so I will not try. Just gimme the points.
Sometimes you talk bollox and this is one of those times.
Fair enough.
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More projection. Of course those who believe the McCann hid their child’s body want them charged, why on earth would they not?
Anyone asking for justice for Madeleine is wanting someone charged for some or rather crime, whether it was child neglect, or something more serious. I understand the sceptics in general feel the McCanns are to blame. OK I might be wrong, but that is my understanding ATM.
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Balderdash. *&^^&
Exactly, so stop posting it.
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That is interesting... care to name these sceptics or are you lobbing everyone into a box?
I couldn't care less what happens to them. I am more inclined to feel the same way about supporters... they never have had any debateand they have no comebacks to justify the 12 mil pounds. it must be disheartening that they pulled out the same as the PJ... not enough evidence to convict.
Wait and see.