UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: Daisy on June 26, 2019, 07:24:21 AM
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I have just seen a news report on BBC Breakfast about Ian Brady. The journalist mentioned she obtained documents from the National Archives. Apparently every month thousands of documents are released to the National Archives which the public have access to. I went on the website and put in a search for Jeremy Bamber and there are over 240 documents held on him. Has anyone thought of obtaining these to see what they contain?
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I have just seen a news report on BBC Breakfast about Ian Brady. The journalist mentioned she obtained documents from the National Archives. Apparently every month thousands of documents are released to the National Archives which the public have access to. I went on the website and put in a search for Jeremy Bamber and there are over 240 documents held on him. Has anyone thought of obtaining these to see what they contain?
Buried treasure probably... https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=jeremy+bamber (https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=jeremy+bamber)
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The difference between Brady and Bamber is that the former is dead, so no need to keep his documentation out of the public domain. Most, if not all DPP files on Bamber however are closed until 2054, unless there are sound reasons for revealing them before then. So it appears that many clogs will be popped and buckets kicked before we're any the wiser.
A typical Brady page... https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C16947590 (https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C16947590)
A typical Bamber page... https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1687143 (https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C16871430)
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The difference between Brady and Bamber is that the former is dead, so no need to keep his documentation out of the public domain. Most, if not all DPP files on Bamber however are closed until 2054, unless there are sound reasons for revealing them before then. So it appears that many clogs will be popped and buckets kicked before we're any the wiser.
A typical Brady page... https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C16947590 (https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C16947590)
A typical Bamber page... https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1687143 (https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C16871430)
Absolutely. Myra Hindley's papers were released after she died, and are available for public perusal at the National Archives.
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Am I mad in thinking that Jeremy Bamber might be innocent?
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Am I mad in thinking that Jeremy Bamber might be innocent?
Dare I say Yes! @)(++(*
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Dare I say Yes! @)(++(*
Yer. Course you can. But I have to say that I'm not known for my sanity.
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The difference between Brady and Bamber is that the former is dead, so no need to keep his documentation out of the public domain. Most, if not all DPP files on Bamber however are closed until 2054, unless there are sound reasons for revealing them before then. So it appears that many clogs will be popped and buckets kicked before we're any the wiser.
A typical Brady page... https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C16947590 (https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C16947590)
A typical Bamber page... https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1687143 (https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C16871430)
Thanks for making things clear. However I thought all documents relating to an individual could only be kept away from the public for 30 years and that time frame has expired. Why then aren’t these being released until 2054? If for any reason there is evidence of innocence and they know it and are keeping the documents hidden then that is corruption.
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The difference between Brady and Bamber is that the former is dead, so no need to keep his documentation out of the public domain. Most, if not all DPP files on Bamber however are closed until 2054, unless there are sound reasons for revealing them before then. So it appears that many clogs will be popped and buckets kicked before we're any the wiser.
A typical Brady page... https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C16947590 (https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C16947590)
A typical Bamber page... https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1687143 (https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C16871430)
It's highly unlikely that there are a pile of documents sitting in the archives that detail an elaborate plot to frame Bamber.
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It's highly unlikely that there are a pile of documents sitting in the archives that detail an elaborate plot to frame Bamber.
The powers that be have probably seen all that Monsieur Teskowski has put online, including sensitive crime scene photos and decided that no way will anyone else have the opportunity to do the same until JB expires.
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These files are likely to be closed for 75 or even a hundred years. They will in any case be severely pruned and redacted; this is not America. To see what might happen, check out my Satpal Ram website, a 1986 murder.
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These files are likely to be closed for 75 or even a hundred years. They will in any case be severely pruned and redacted; this is not America. To see what might happen, check out my Satpal Ram website, a 1986 murder.
Thanks. I hadn't heard of the Satpal Ram case. Always interesting to learn something new, although I don't know whose website I've been reading!
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I have just seen a news report on BBC Breakfast about Ian Brady. The journalist mentioned she obtained documents from the National Archives. Apparently every month thousands of documents are released to the National Archives which the public have access to. I went on the website and put in a search for Jeremy Bamber and there are over 240 documents held on him. Has anyone thought of obtaining these to see what they contain?
Am guessing this is what AA was on about
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Am guessing this is what AA was on about
It will be a nice day out, but a wasted journey. All Bamber's 247 files are closed until 2054...
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=jeremy+bamber (https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=jeremy+bamber)
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It will be a nice day out, but a wasted journey. All Bamber's 247 files are closed until 2054...
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=jeremy+bamber (https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=jeremy+bamber)
Can I ask a question please myster.
1) where are all the original docs from? The police statements etc? Are they readily available online or to the public?
2) what do you think may be in the withheld docs? Am I right I’m thinking there is more evidence that is likely to implicate him? Or could it be withheld for its sensitive nature? Or thirdly, could it clear him maybe?
Thanks in advance.
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Can I ask a question please myster.
1) where are all the original docs from? The police statements etc? Are they readily available online or to the public?
2) what do you think may be in the withheld docs? Am I right I’m thinking there is more evidence that is likely to implicate him? Or could it be withheld for its sensitive nature? Or thirdly, could it clear him maybe?
Thanks in advance.
1. No, I think this is only the second, though limited, online resource. Everything on red came from blue, which was uploaded originally by Bamber's McKenzie friend, Mike Teskowski, well before this site ever existed. You would need to join there to see more, as Caroline will confirm no doubt.
2. There might be more damning evidence against him, such as early medical records, psychiatric reports, and the CCRC will hold far more information that the public will ever get to know, but very much doubt anything that would show innocence.
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1. No, I think this is only the second, though limited, online resource. Everything on red came from blue, which was uploaded originally by Bamber's McKenzie friend, Mike Teskowski, well before this site ever existed. You would need to join there to see more, as Caroline will confirm no doubt.
2. There might be more damning evidence against him, such as early medical records, psychiatric reports, and the CCRC will hold far more information that the public will ever get to know, but very much doubt anything that would show innocence.
Thank you. So how did he get hold of them? Was he allowed to upload if they weren’t available to public?
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Thank you. So how did he get hold of them? Was he allowed to upload if they weren’t available to public?
From Bamber himself and stored in MT's house, loft, shed, any other rodent-free place available, and just uploaded regardless. I can't remember if the relatives tried to get his site shut down at one point, but again, Caroline might know.
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1. No, I think this is only the second, though limited, online resource. Everything on red came from blue, which was uploaded originally by Bamber's McKenzie friend, Mike Teskowski, well before this site ever existed. You would need to join there to see more, as Caroline will confirm no doubt.
2. There might be more damning evidence against him, such as early medical records, psychiatric reports, and the CCRC will hold far more information that the public will ever get to know, but very much doubt anything that would show innocence.
Yes Myster, I can confirm that.
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From Bamber himself and stored in MT's house, loft, shed, any other rodent-free place available, and just uploaded regardless. I can't remember if the relatives tried to get his site shut down at one point, but again, Caroline might know.
I haven't heard that the relatives tried to close down the site, if they has, I'm sure I'd have heard about it.
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I was reading an old thread on here earlier today. Classic quote from user Starryian:
"Mike Tesko is the kind of individual who would burgle your house, then the very next day go back to your house, ring the doorbell and sympathetically ask if you've just been burgled and is there anything he can do to help"
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I was reading an old thread on here earlier today. Classic quote from user Starryian:
"Mike Tesko is the kind of individual who would burgle your house, then the very next day go back to your house, ring the doorbell and sympathetically ask if you've just been burgled and is there anything he can do to help"
Like sell you a familiar-looking Sony television, gold necklace and your grandad's old war medals.
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Not from the National Archives but from 2004
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1460 on: November 29, 2011, 11:40:PM »
Copy of Email correspondence, between me and Essex police, about existence of more than one silencer, dated, 20th April 2004:-
RE: White House Farm murders
Hide Details
FROM:
*****
TO:
michael teskowski
CC:
Win Bernard
Adam Hunt
Message flagged Tuesday, 20 April 2004, 8:28Message Body
Dear Mr Teskowski,
I apologise if there has been a misunderstanding or you didn't receive
my email, but I was of the belief that I had previously provided you
with a response to your interest about three different silencers.
The response was that the information you request is not for public
consumption, hence the reason that I am unable on this occasion to
provide you anymore detail. Those relevant parties such as families and
legal teams involved in the case HAVE been provided all the necessary
information.
I appreciate you have previously had affiliations with Jeremy Bamber and
his defence team but you must likewise appreciate that in order to
protect the interests of everyone, including Jeremy Bamber, we must
follow certain rules and regulations before releasing any information
into the public domain.
As I also previously stated, I have forwarded on all your emails to the
senior investigating officer Det Supt Win Bernard and force solicitor
Adam Hunt and I am sure that if there is anything else they are able to
tell you they will.
Regards
*****
Press Office
DDI: 01245 452455
Ext 50620
Mobile: 07850 882215
-----Original Message-----
From: michael teskowski [mailto:miketesko@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 19 April 2004 20:06
To: *****
Subject: RE: White House Farm murders
Dear *****,
I recently contacted you regarding the question of
three different silencers in existence as part of the
WHF investigation - one that was donated to Essex
police museum and another two which were handed back
to the relatives..
As you know from time to time a silencer has been
referred to by the exhibits reference SBJ/1, DB/1 and
DRB/1.
I have a question, do each of the three aforementioned
exhibit references relate to only one silencer or
sound moderator or has each silencer or sound
moderator been given a separate exhibits reference?
I understand there was an internal police
investigation into the possibility that more than one
silencer was recovered from either WHF or the
relatives which was conducted by COLP, who concluded
that the various exhibits references (SBJ/1, DB/1 and
DRB/1) came about through a misunderdstanding between
the scenes of crime officer and the home office
forensic laboratory staff who recorded the silencer on
their forms as SBJ/1, DB/1 and DRB/1 respectively on
different dates.
That explanation is all very well but it does not go
any way towards explaning how three different
silencers or sound moderastors came into the
possession of Essex police and how two of them were
handed back to the relatives and the third one was
donated to the museum!
I do know that according to the evidence of David
Boutflour and his family that they found a silencer in
the gun cupboard at WHF on saturday 10th August 1985.
This was taken by the family to the home of Christine
and Peter Eaton where it was kept for a period of two
days until 12th August 1985 at which point it was
collected from them by DS Jones who according to his
evidence took it to the scenes of crime dept at Witham
police station and placed it in a locked drawer until
9.15 a.m. the following morning at which point he
handed the aforementioned silencer to DI Cook who took
it immediately to Huntingdon Laboratory where it was
provisionally examined on 13th August 1985.
Now, I am mentioning this for a reason, you see a
couple of months ago, a retired police officer
contacted Jeremy bambers solicitors in Birmingham and
provided some information concerning the whereabouts
of the silencer prior to it going to the lab at
Huntingdon on the very first occasion it was
submitted!
This former police officer arranged to meet Ewen Smith
in London and provided the following information..
Prior to the first time the silencer was sent to the
lab it was kept by the former DCI Jones on his desk at
Witham police station and used as a paper weight!
At one stage PC Whiddon picked up the silencer and
took it to the store room where the rifle was being
kept and screwed it onto the threads of the rifle to
see if it fitted!
Two other police officers were named who witnessed
this occurring!
Now if this information is true then it cannot have
been the same silencer which David Boutflour recovered
from the gun cupboard since there was insufficient
time to allow for the silencer to be used as a paper
weight on top of the former DCI Jones desk at Witham
police station, because according to the evidence of
DS Jones and DI Cook and others, the one found by
David Boutflour was only at Witham police station
overnight and kept in a locked drawer in the scenes of
crime office!
This must mean there were at least two silencers in
Essex police possession, one in the control of the
former DCI Jones and another found by David Boutflour!
What I find interesting about all of this is that
nowhere in the file are there any references to the
former DCI Jones having any involvement with the
silencer used in the prosecution of Jeremy Bamber,
despite him being in overall command of the
investigation. For some reason he is neither shown or
examines the silencer or makes any report about how it
came into police possession!
I am particularly interested in how the silencer he
used as a paper weight on his desk before it was first
submitted to the lab (13th August 1985) came into his
possession?
Could you please shed some light on this matter?
Best wishes
Michael Teskowski.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1721.msg56802.html#msg56802
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From Bamber himself and stored in MT's house, loft, shed, any other rodent-free place available, and just uploaded regardless. I can't remember if the relatives tried to get his site shut down at one point, but again, Caroline might know.
Incredible! So these docs are from the case file and Bambers legal team leaked them
To the public. How comes they haven’t been taken down and how is this website able to have them up if it’s not disclosed to public ? Weird how he would leak them when they paint him in such a bad light, especially his police statements.
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I recently contacted you regarding the question of
three different silencers in existence as part of the
WHF investigation - one that was donated to Essex
police museum and another two which were handed back
to the relatives..
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1721.msg56802.html#msg56802
Mike T would have surely learned about this from Bamber
So where is an updated infantry from Bamber and his CT in relation to exhibits ?
“Now, I am mentioning this for a reason, you see a
couple of months ago, a retired police officer
contacted Jeremy bambers solicitors in Birmingham and
provided some information concerning the whereabouts
of the silencer prior to it going to the lab at
Huntingdon on the very first occasion it was
submitted!
This former police officer arranged to meet Ewen Smith
in London and provided the following information..
Prior to the first time the silencer was sent to the
lab it was kept by the former DCI Jones on his desk at
Witham police station and used as a paper weight!
*&^^&
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=830.msg25636#msg25636
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Incredible! So these docs are from the case file and Bambers legal team leaked them
To the public. How comes they haven’t been taken down and how is this website able to have them up if it’s not disclosed to public ? Weird how he would leak them when they paint him in such a bad light, especially his police statements.
To be fair, we wouldn't know a fraction of what we know now about this case had Mike started the forum and posted the documents. Also, in the main, you have to be a member to view the them unless they get copied onto the main board.
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I recently contacted you regarding the question of
three different silencers in existence as part of the
WHF investigation - one that was donated to Essex
police museum and another two which were handed back
to the relatives..
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1721.msg56802.html#msg56802
Jeremy Bamber 2018 stated,
“The report in the hands of the CPS proves with absolute certainty that this case featured two silencers. And now the CPS must act. There are moments in life when the truth can no longer be suppressed and this is one of those times.”
Newby, a solicitor advocate from Quality Solicitors Jordans, said:
“I hope this report will persuade the CPS to now authorise the handing over of all the undisclosed material still held by Essex police in this case.”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/21/scientists-report-casts-doubt-on-jeremy-bamber-trial-evidence
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Jeremy Bamber 2018 stated,
“The report in the hands of the CPS proves with absolute certainty that this case featured two silencers. And now the CPS must act. There are moments in life when the truth can no longer be suppressed and this is one of those times.”
Newby, a solicitor advocate from Quality Solicitors Jordans, said:
“I hope this report will persuade the CPS to now authorise the handing over of all the undisclosed material still held by Essex police in this case.”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/21/scientists-report-casts-doubt-on-jeremy-bamber-trial-evidence
Bamber’s gone from,
believing a silencer was used
to NO silencer
“Based on what we knew at the beginning we believed the silencer was used........upon revelations he changed his mind. When we last spoke he believed the silencer was not used.”
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3851.msg358367.html#msg358367
to 3 silencers
three different silencers or sound moderastors came into the
possession of Essex police and how two of them were
handed back to the relatives and the third one was
donated to the museum!
to 2 silencers
Dec 2019
“We are now in a position to show exactly what has been withheld, which amounts to thousands of key files and documents pertaining to, not just the forensic examination of two silencers
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/12/08/serial-killer-jeremy-bamber-launches-high-court-challenge-blood/
and now Mark Newby is claiming on Bambers behalf SC was shot once - alluding to someone/the police having been responsible.
Do give over
Is he without shame?
In 2003 Essex police published an article headed,
‘Reforming Justice for All’
Mark Newby and associates might want to read up on it
Page 2 here http://essexpolicemuseum.org.uk/the-law-archive/n_0301lw.pdf
How about Bamber disclose his prison files, including all ‘sensitive’ material held on him
Maybe someone will start a petition - imagine it would reach 10,000 signatures within a few days
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To be fair, we wouldn't know a fraction of what we know now about this case had Mike started the forum and posted the documents. Also, in the main, you have to be a member to view the them unless they get copied onto the main board.
Might seem an obvious question but how do you know these documents are valid?
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Bamber’s gone from,
‘believing a silencer was used’
to 3 silencers
to
2 silencers
and now Mark Newby is claiming on Bambers behalf SC was shot once - alluding to someone/the police having been responsible.
Do give over
Is he without shame?
In 2003 Essex police published an article headed,
‘Reforming Justice for All’
Mark Newby and associates might want to read up on it
Page 2 here http://essexpolicemuseum.org.uk/the-law-archive/n_0301lw.pdf
How about Bamber disclose his prison files, including all ‘sensitive’ material held on him
Maybe someone will start a petition - imagine it would reach 10,000 signatures within a few days
From the article.
THE present procedures for
pre-trial disclosure are
weighted heavily in favour of
the defence: whereas the
prosecution has to disclose
everything, the defence can
spring surprises effectively
ambushing the prosecution
Published in 2003,Bamber jailed in 1986.
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Might seem an obvious question but how do you know these documents are valid?
I know - they are 8((()*/
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I know - they are 8((()*/
Thanks. I’ve based pretty much my entire decision on his guilt on these statement docs combined with circumstantial evidence. I believe when you strip everything down you can tell very clearly that he is lying through his teeth
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‘Evidence Gathering’
“We accept, of course, the principle that evidence should be properly obtained in accordance with rules.
However, if the search for the truth is to be paramount, the determining factor in admissibility should be the enlightening effect which the evidence has on that search, rather than on a detailed scrutiny intended to identify some minor procedural irregularity, thereby preventing the evidence from being put to the court.
We would like to see legislative change which would enable all relevant and potentially enlightening evidence to be put before the court for the court to determine its value and admissibility.
(also p2 http://essexpolicemuseum.org.uk/the-law-archive/n_0301lw.pdf )
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Thanks. I’ve based pretty much my entire decision on his guilt on these statement docs combined with circumstantial evidence. I believe when you strip everything down you can tell very clearly that he is lying through his teeth
Well, I used to think he was innocent, not knowing much about the case. The more I read, the more it was obvious that the case for innocence was just a house of cards. I wrote to him for about three years and found him to be VERY selective in what he answered, if he didn't like the question, he simply didn't answer. I have no doubts now that he's guilty.
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Thanks. I’ve based pretty much my entire decision on his guilt on these statement docs combined with circumstantial evidence. I believe when you strip everything down you can tell very clearly that he is lying through his teeth
Sorry, do you mean the statement docs which are only available on Mike Tesko's site ?
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Sorry, do you mean the statement docs which are only available on Mike Tesko's site ?
The ones on this site. There’s a case file section with statements from Bamber, Mugford, McDonald etc
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The ones on this site. There’s a case file section with statements from Bamber, Mugford, McDonald etc
I see, yes it fast becomes a stretch of credulity at every turn to believe anyone other than Jeremy could have done it, join the dots. Telling how nobody goes back to believing Sheila was responsible once they are familiar with all the available evidence. Always one way traffic.