UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧

Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: debunker on April 02, 2013, 11:04:39 AM

Title: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: debunker on April 02, 2013, 11:04:39 AM
....of the McCann debate.

Is this the case or is it another anti myth?

Interesting that this section is still about the ABDUCTION of Madeleine- normally anathema to the [ censored word]!
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: stephen25000 on April 02, 2013, 01:37:07 PM
....of the McCann debate.

Is this the case or is it another anti myth?

Interesting that this section is still about the ABDUCTION of Madeleine- normally anathema to the [ censored word]!

Trouble is, on that one, that the abduction is merely that, an unproven myth, without a shred of credible evidence to back it up. However, the Mccanns have displayed it as a fact, which is a blatant lie.
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: debunker on April 02, 2013, 01:49:15 PM
....of the McCann debate.

Is this the case or is it another anti myth?

Interesting that this section is still about the ABDUCTION of Madeleine- normally anathema to the [ censored word]!

Trouble is, on that one, that the abduction is merely that, an unproven myth, without a shred of credible evidence to back it up. However, the Mccanns have displayed it as a fact, which is a blatant lie.



I do wish people would use English correctly. Anyone is true to state their own beliefs. If they believe Madeleine was abducted,they have the right to say that. They may be right or wrong but they have a right to express their beliefs. Facts may later prove them wrong,but that would not make it a LIE, merely a mistake!

In order to prove that the McCanns "LIED" you would have to prove that they purposefully told an untruth with the intention to deceive. You have not done so. All you can claim is that you believe them to be lying- a very different matter.

Neither you nor anyone else has shown that the McCanns have LIED about anything.They may have been mistaken, but that is not sufficient to claim a lie has been spoken.
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: HiDeHo on April 02, 2013, 04:35:28 PM

McLIES: Why did Gerry McCann LIE about which door he used?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9UPOXdTMIs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9UPOXdTMIs)
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: Admin on April 02, 2013, 04:37:47 PM
Impartiality is the keyword.   8(0(*
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: debunker on April 02, 2013, 05:32:14 PM

McLIES: Why did Gerry McCann LIE about which door he used?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9UPOXdTMIs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9UPOXdTMIs)

See my note about correct use of English. Only 3/10 for effort and 0/10 for truth and accuracy.
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: debunker on April 02, 2013, 05:36:31 PM
Impartiality is the keyword.   8(0(*

Agreed. I have no firm views on most things aside from obviously false assertions. I post on no other forum and see both Pros and [ censored word] as engaged in a dialogue of the deaf, only rehearsing their own views and failing to consider alternative discourses.
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: John on April 02, 2013, 05:59:36 PM
Impartiality is the keyword.   8(0(*

Agreed. I have no firm views on most things aside from obviously false assertions. I post on no other forum and see both Pros and [ censored word] as engaged in a dialogue of the deaf, only rehearsing their own views and failing to consider alternative discourses.

It is getting a bit like that with the Bamber case when nearly everyone who disagrees with Mike Tesko gets abused and banned eventually.

There is evidence in the Maddie McCann case but it must be sifted ever so carefully in my opinion.
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: debunker on April 02, 2013, 06:04:03 PM
Impartiality is the keyword.   8(0(*

Agreed. I have no firm views on most things aside from obviously false assertions. I post on no other forum and see both Pros and [ censored word] as engaged in a dialogue of the deaf, only rehearsing their own views and failing to consider alternative discourses.

It is getting a bit like that with the Bamber case when nearly everyone who disagrees with Mike Tesko gets abused and banned eventually.




There is evidence in the Maddie McCann case but it must be sifted ever so carefully in my opinion.

The Portuguese Prosecutor was clear that there was no evidence to charge anyone with anything.

Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: stephen25000 on April 02, 2013, 06:08:48 PM
....of the McCann debate.

Is this the case or is it another anti myth?

Interesting that this section is still about the ABDUCTION of Madeleine- normally anathema to the [ censored word]!

Trouble is, on that one, that the abduction is merely that, an unproven myth, without a shred of credible evidence to back it up. However, the Mccanns have displayed it as a fact, which is a blatant lie.



I do wish people would use English correctly. Anyone is true to state their own beliefs. If they believe Madeleine was abducted,they have the right to say that. They may be right or wrong but they have a right to express their beliefs. Facts may later prove them wrong,but that would not make it a LIE, merely a mistake!

In order to prove that the McCanns "LIED" you would have to prove that they purposefully told an untruth with the intention to deceive. You have not done so. All you can claim is that you believe them to be lying- a very different matter.

Neither you nor anyone else has shown that the McCanns have LIED about anything.They may have been mistaken, but that is not sufficient to claim a lie has been spoken.


Example of a lie by kate mccann.

Stating in the book that only they were searching for Madeleine, after her disappearance.

A pure lie.

Stating abduction as fact, is also a lie.

Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: debunker on April 02, 2013, 06:16:56 PM
....of the McCann debate.

Is this the case or is it another anti myth?

Interesting that this section is still about the ABDUCTION of Madeleine- normally anathema to the [ censored word]!

Trouble is, on that one, that the abduction is merely that, an unproven myth, without a shred of credible evidence to back it up. However,
the Mccanns have displayed it as a fact, which is a blatant lie.



I do wish people would use English correctly. Anyone is true to state their own beliefs. If they believe Madeleine was abducted,they have the right to say that. They may be right or wrong but they have a right to express their beliefs. Facts may later prove them wrong,but that
would not make it a LIE, merely a mistake!

In order to prove that the McCanns "LIED" you would have to prove that they purposefully told an untruth with the intention to deceive. You have not done so. All you can claim is that you believe them to be lying- a very different matter.

Neither you nor anyone else has shown that the McCanns have LIED about anything.They may have been mistaken, but that is not sufficient to claim a lie has been spoken.



Example of a lie by kate mccann.

Stating in the book that only they were searching for Madeleine, after her disappearance.


A pure lie.

Stating abduction as fact, is also a lie.

They may be mis-statements, but you would need to know her state of mind when she made those statements.

A statement is only a lie if an untruth is told, the person knowing it is untrue, and told by that person with the intention to deceive.

Quoting only partially and inaccurately does not help your case. What exactly were her words and in what context were they spoken. If she truly believes her words, she cannot be lying. ....................................
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: stephen25000 on April 02, 2013, 06:26:12 PM
....of the McCann debate.

Is this the case or is it another anti myth?

Interesting that this section is still about the ABDUCTION of Madeleine- normally anathema to the [ censored word]!

Trouble is, on that one, that the abduction is merely that, an unproven myth, without a shred of credible evidence to back it up. However,
the Mccanns have displayed it as a fact, which is a blatant lie.



I do wish people would use English correctly. Anyone is true to state their own beliefs. If they believe Madeleine was abducted,they have the right to say that. They may be right or wrong but they have a right to express their beliefs. Facts may later prove them wrong,but that
would not make it a LIE, merely a mistake!

In order to prove that the McCanns "LIED" you would have to prove that they purposefully told an untruth with the intention to deceive. You have not done so. All you can claim is that you believe them to be lying- a very different matter.

Neither you nor anyone else has shown that the McCanns have LIED about anything.They may have been mistaken, but that is not sufficient to claim a lie has been spoken.



Example of a lie by kate mccann.

Stating in the book that only they were searching for Madeleine, after her disappearance.


A pure lie.

Stating abduction as fact, is also a lie.

They may be mis-statements, but you would need to know her state of mind when she made those statements.

A statement is only a lie if an untruth is told, the person knowing it is untrue, and told by that person with the intention to deceive.

Quoting only partially and inaccurately does not help your case. What exactly were her words and in what context were they spoken. If she truly believes her words, she cannot be lying. Please use English correctly.

There is no need to be pedantic.

She clearly stated only they searched, a clear lie.

She had every opportunity to remove that from the revised version of the book.

A lie is still a lie
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: debunker on April 02, 2013, 06:48:20 PM
....of the McCann debate.

Is this the case or is it another anti myth?

Interesting that this section is still about the ABDUCTION of Madeleine- normally anathema to the [ censored word]!


Trouble is, on that one, that the abduction is merely that, an unproven myth, without a shred of credible evidence to back it up. However,
the Mccanns have displayed it as a fact, which is a blatant lie.




I do wish people would use English correctly. Anyone is true to state their own beliefs. If they believe Madeleine was abducted,they have the right to say that. They may be right or wrong but they have a right to express their beliefs. Facts may later prove them wrong,but that
would not make it a LIE, merely a mistake!
In order to prove that the McCanns "LIED" you would have to prove that they purposefully told an untruth with the intention to deceive. You have not done so. All you can claim is that you believe them to be lying- a very different matter.


Neither you nor anyone else has shown that the McCanns have LIED about anything.They may have been mistaken, but that is not sufficient to claim a lie has been spoken.





Example of a lie by kate mccann.

Stating in the book that only they were searching for Madeleine, after her disappearance.




A pure lie.

Stating abduction as fact, is also a lie.


They may be mis-statements, but you would need to know her state of mind when she made those statements.

A statement is only a lie if an untruth is told, the person knowing it is untrue, and told by that person with the intention to deceive.

Quoting only partially and inaccurately does not help your case. What exactly were her words and in what context were they spoken. If
she truly believes her words, she cannot be lying. Please use English correctly.

There is no need to be pedantic.

She clearly stated only they searched, a clear lie.



She had every opportunity to remove that from the revised version of the book.

A lie is still a lie

A lie is only a lie if the above conditions are met. You have not shown this to be the case. This is not pedantic-  a lie is only a lie if spoken intentionally to deceive, else it is mistaken or just an error. To be a lie the speaker must believe other than what they claim AND intend to deceive. As I said, please use words correctly.
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: stephen25000 on April 02, 2013, 06:57:18 PM
....of the McCann debate.

Is this the case or is it another anti myth?

Interesting that this section is still about the ABDUCTION of Madeleine- normally anathema to the [ censored word]!


Trouble is, on that one, that the abduction is merely that, an unproven myth, without a shred of credible evidence to back it up. However,
the Mccanns have displayed it as a fact, which is a blatant lie.




I do wish people would use English correctly. Anyone is true to state their own beliefs. If they believe Madeleine was abducted,they have the right to say that. They may be right or wrong but they have a right to express their beliefs. Facts may later prove them wrong,but that
would not make it a LIE, merely a mistake!
In order to prove that the McCanns "LIED" you would have to prove that they purposefully told an untruth with the intention to deceive. You have not done so. All you can claim is that you believe them to be lying- a very different matter.


Neither you nor anyone else has shown that the McCanns have LIED about anything.They may have been mistaken, but that is not sufficient to claim a lie has been spoken.





Example of a lie by kate mccann.

Stating in the book that only they were searching for Madeleine, after her disappearance.




A pure lie.

Stating abduction as fact, is also a lie.


They may be mis-statements, but you would need to know her state of mind when she made those statements.

A statement is only a lie if an untruth is told, the person knowing it is untrue, and told by that person with the intention to deceive.

Quoting only partially and inaccurately does not help your case. What exactly were her words and in what context were they spoken. If
she truly believes her words, she cannot be lying. Please use English correctly.

There is no need to be pedantic.

She clearly stated only they searched, a clear lie.



She had every opportunity to remove that from the revised version of the book.

A lie is still a lie

A lie is only a lie if the above conditions are met. You have not shown this to be the case. This is not pedantic-  a lie is only a lie if spoken intentionally to deceive, else it is mistaken or just an error. To be a lie the speaker must believe other than what they claim AND intend to deceive. As I said, please use words correctly.


Such arrogance.

Kate Mccann know that statement to be a lie.

Also I suggest you watch the Jane Hill interview with the Mccanns for reference purposes.

Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: debunker on April 02, 2013, 07:23:08 PM
What direct knowledge do you have about Kate McCann's state of mind when she made that statement. Are you telepathic?
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: Eleanor on April 02, 2013, 07:39:25 PM

There was a period in the early morning when Kate and Gerry were searching alone. The Police had departed for some reason, and Kate was upset because there was no one else around.  So hardly a lie.  Something that you Stephen 25000, have taken and quoted out of context.
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: stephen25000 on April 02, 2013, 07:44:33 PM
What direct knowledge do you have about Kate McCann's state of mind when she made that statement. Are you telepathic?


She hasn't redacted that statement.

It is a clear lie.

Many people in PDL searched for Madeleine after her disappearance, for several successive days and on the night itself.

That is well documented.

She and her husband stayed in the apartment til the following morning.
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: Luz on April 02, 2013, 08:12:12 PM

[/quote]

The Portuguese Prosecutor was clear that there was no evidence to charge anyone with anything.
[/quote]

Do you by any chance understand the meaning of that statement?!
I'll tell you by giving you a very extreme example.

More than 30 years ago the then Prime Minister, Sá Carneiro and the Defense Minister, Amaro da Costa died in an aircraft crash just close to the Lisbon airport. This was first reported as an accident, but soon it became obvious that it was a crime because Amaro da Costa " had documents concerning the «October surprise conspiracy theory» and was planning on taking them to the United Nations's General Assembly. According to this conspiracy theory, Reagan promised to sell American weapons to Iran, to replace the old Portuguese ones; the Portuguese military were acting as middlemen (two of the Portuguese Presidential candidates, in 1980, were Generals, and one of them was promptly accused as responsible for the assassination by many Sá Carneiro supporters); a boat with the weapons was almost seized at Lisbon's harbor. This theory is reinforced with the fact that Amaro da Costa was the one renting the plane, and Sá Carneiro a last minute passenger (possibly as a decoy)" (Wikipedia)

For the past 20 years there has been lots of forensic evidence and the man that planted the bomb, finally, and now he can no longer be convicted, has confessed to his crime. However, despite the huge amount of evidence no judge would press charges because "there was no evidence".

What it meant is that putting the forensics and the witnesses' testimonies in a Court of law would compromise too many important people that no judge would dare to.
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: ActualMat on April 02, 2013, 08:26:38 PM
Lack of evidence, doesn't mean lack of guilt.
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: Luz on April 02, 2013, 08:59:58 PM
I sincerely hope that the UK JUSTICE FORUM does not take sides but that of JUSTICE.

I'll try to be as factual as I can (even if it's not easy for me to always reinforce my statements with docs in English) and not make  moral, cultural or social judgments. If I fail, I'm opened to correction.

As for that classification of anti and pro I find it utterly disgusting - after all I believed we were all seeking justice towards a little child.
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: debunker on April 02, 2013, 09:07:53 PM
What direct knowledge do you have about Kate McCann's state of mind when she made that statement. Are you telepathic?


She hasn't redacted that statement.

It is a clear lie.

Many people in PDL searched for Madeleine after her disappearance, for several successive days and on the night itself.



That is well documented.

She and her husband stayed in the apartment til the following morning.

You obviously have problems using the word "lie" correctly. Your problem., not mine.
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: John on April 02, 2013, 10:25:42 PM
I sincerely hope that the UK JUSTICE FORUM does not take sides but that of JUSTICE.

I'll try to be as factual as I can (even if it's not easy for me to always reinforce my statements with docs in English) and not make  moral, cultural or social judgments. If I fail, I'm opened to correction.

As for that classification of anti and pro I find it utterly disgusting - after all I believed we were all seeking justice towards a little child.

As admin stated earlier we are interested in the facts and not the speculations Luz.  If everyone keeps to the evidence and the facts then maybe we can find some common ground eventually.
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: icabodcrane on April 02, 2013, 11:26:26 PM

McLIES: Why did Gerry McCann LIE about which door he used?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9UPOXdTMIs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9UPOXdTMIs)

See my note about correct use of English. Only 3/10 for effort and 0/10 for truth and accuracy.

Well,  you know,  the McCanns have  lied  ...  without question or doubt

Here is a direct quote from Kate McCann's book,  'Madeleine'  in relation to a trip they had planned to make to Huelva in Spain  (  with accompanying journalists )  which they subsequently cancelled when police came to search their villa

"We'd never lied anout anything - not to the police, not to the media, not to anyone else.  But now we found ourselves in one of those tricky situations where we just didn't seem to have a choice"

So there you have it,  directly from Kate McCann  ...  they lied 

It might be argued that,  in the scheme of things,  this was a fairly  insignificant lie   ...  but lie,  it was  ...  and we really have no idea whether or not there have been other  'tricky situations'  when the McCanns felt   they  'didn't have a choice'   (  other than to lie  ) 
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: sika on April 02, 2013, 11:30:00 PM

McLIES: Why did Gerry McCann LIE about which door he used?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9UPOXdTMIs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9UPOXdTMIs)

See my note about correct use of English. Only 3/10 for effort and 0/10 for truth and accuracy.

Well,  you know,  the McCanns have  lied  ...  without question or doubt

Here is a direct quote from Kate McCann's book,  'Madeleine'  in relation to a trip they had planned to make to Huelva in Spain  (  with accompanying journalists )  which they subsequently cancelled when police came to search their villa

"We'd never lied anout anything - not to the police, not to the media, not to anyone else.  But now we found ourselves in one of those zr not there have been other  'tricky situations'  when the McCanns felt   they  'didn't have a choice'   (  other than to lie  )
To what lie, is Kate referring?
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: John on April 02, 2013, 11:38:18 PM

McLIES: Why did Gerry McCann LIE about which door he used?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9UPOXdTMIs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9UPOXdTMIs)

See my note about correct use of English. Only 3/10 for effort and 0/10 for truth and accuracy.

Well,  you know,  the McCanns have  lied  ...  without question or doubt

Here is a direct quote from Kate McCann's book,  'Madeleine'  in relation to a trip they had planned to make to Huelva in Spain  (  with accompanying journalists )  which they subsequently cancelled when police came to search their villa

"We'd never lied anout anything - not to the police, not to the media, not to anyone else.  But now we found ourselves in one of those tricky situations where we just didn't seem to have a choice"

So there you have it,  directly from Kate McCann  ...  they lied 

It might be argued that,  in the scheme of things,  this was a fairly  insignificant lie   ...  but lie,  it was  ...  and we really have no idea whether or not there have been other  'tricky situations'  when the McCanns felt   they  'didn't have a choice'   (  other than to lie  )


Is there any of us who haven't lied at one time or other?
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: icabodcrane on April 03, 2013, 12:05:20 AM

McLIES: Why did Gerry McCann LIE about which door he used?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9UPOXdTMIs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9UPOXdTMIs)

See my note about correct use of English. Only 3/10 for effort and 0/10 for truth and accuracy.

Well,  you know,  the McCanns have  lied  ...  without question or doubt

Here is a direct quote from Kate McCann's book,  'Madeleine'  in relation to a trip they had planned to make to Huelva in Spain  (  with accompanying journalists )  which they subsequently cancelled when police came to search their villa

"We'd never lied anout anything - not to the police, not to the media, not to anyone else.  But now we found ourselves in one of those tricky situations where we just didn't seem to have a choice"

So there you have it,  directly from Kate McCann  ...  they lied 

It might be argued that,  in the scheme of things,  this was a fairly  insignificant lie   ...  but lie,  it was  ...  and we really have no idea whether or not there have been other  'tricky situations'  when the McCanns felt   they  'didn't have a choice'   (  other than to lie  )


Is there any of us who haven't lied at one time or other?

In this case though John,  the McCanns chose to lie to the press  (  who they had castigated for giving untrue information in the past )  and to the public  (  who they were appealing to for help and money  ) 

My real point was,  though,  that the suggestion the McCanns have never been anything but honest in their dec;arations is simply not true

We have no way of knowing if there have been any other ocassions   (  or tricky situations  )  when they were equally less than honest

Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: icabodcrane on April 03, 2013, 12:16:53 AM

McLIES: Why did Gerry McCann LIE about which door he used?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9UPOXdTMIs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9UPOXdTMIs)

See my note about correct use of English. Only 3/10 for effort and 0/10 for truth and accuracy.

Well,  you know,  the McCanns have  lied  ...  without question or doubt

Here is a direct quote from Kate McCann's book,  'Madeleine'  in relation to a trip they had planned to make to Huelva in Spain  (  with accompanying journalists )  which they subsequently cancelled when police came to search their villa

"We'd never lied anout anything - not to the police, not to the media, not to anyone else.  But now we found ourselves in one of those zr not there have been other  'tricky situations'  when the McCanns felt   they  'didn't have a choice'   (  other than to lie  )
To what lie, is Kate referring?

Hello sika

The lie Kate referred to was in telling the press  (  and through them,  the public )  that they were cancelling the trip to Huelva because Gerry was unwell

The real reason was that the Portuguese police were searching their apartment that day,  and removing certain items.  The McCanns were asked to leave the apartment whilst the search took place.

Gerry McCann later compounded the lie on his blog,  claiming that the Huelva trip was postponed because he had a virus and had spent the day in the apartment catching up on paperwork
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: debunker on April 03, 2013, 06:37:33 AM

McLIES: Why did Gerry McCann LIE about which door he used?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9UPOXdTMIs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9UPOXdTMIs)


See my note about correct use of English. Only 3/10 for effort and 0/10 for truth and accuracy.

Well,  you know,  the McCanns have  lied  ...  without question or doubt



Here is a direct quote from Kate McCann's book,  'Madeleine'  in relation to a trip they had planned to make to Huelva in Spain  (  with accompanying journalists )  which they subsequently cancelled when police came to search their villa

"We'd never lied anout anything - not to the police, not to the media, not to anyone else.  But now we found ourselves in one of those zr not there have been other  'tricky situations'  when the McCanns felt   they  'didn't have a choice'   (  other than to lie  )
To what lie, is Kate referring?


Hello sika

The lie Kate referred to was in telling the press  (  and through them,  the public )  that they were cancelling the trip to Huelva because Gerry was unwell


The real reason was that the Portuguese police were searching their apartment that day,  and removing certain items.  The McCanns were asked to leave the apartment whilst the search took place.

Gerry McCann later compounded the lie on his blog,  claiming that the Huelva trip was postponed because he had a virus and had spent the day in the apartment catching up on paperwork



CITE?
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: icabodcrane on April 03, 2013, 05:24:42 PM

McLIES: Why did Gerry McCann LIE about which door he used?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9UPOXdTMIs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9UPOXdTMIs)


See my note about correct use of English. Only 3/10 for effort and 0/10 for truth and accuracy.

Well,  you know,  the McCanns have  lied  ...  without question or doubt



Here is a direct quote from Kate McCann's book,  'Madeleine'  in relation to a trip they had planned to make to Huelva in Spain  (  with accompanying journalists )  which they subsequently cancelled when police came to search their villa

"We'd never lied anout anything - not to the police, not to the media, not to anyone else.  But now we found ourselves in one of those zr not there have been other  'tricky situations'  when the McCanns felt   they  'didn't have a choice'   (  other than to lie  )
To what lie, is Kate referring?


Hello sika

The lie Kate referred to was in telling the press  (  and through them,  the public )  that they were cancelling the trip to Huelva because Gerry was unwell


The real reason was that the Portuguese police were searching their apartment that day,  and removing certain items.  The McCanns were asked to leave the apartment whilst the search took place.

Gerry McCann later compounded the lie on his blog,  claiming that the Huelva trip was postponed because he had a virus and had spent the day in the apartment catching up on paperwork



CITE?

Kate McCann's book  'Madeleine'  (  which I'm reading at the moment )

On pages 205/206  she refers to August 2nd 2007

"That morning Gerry and I, along with Jon and a colleague, were preparing to drive to Huelva in Spain to put up posters of Madeleine. Jon was intending to do some filming and several of the British journalists were going to join us there,  on the give-and-take principle: it would give them a story centred on Madeleine, rather than on us, and this in turn would publicize our efforts.  As I was dropping Sean and Amelie off at Toddler Club, I had a phone call from Gerry. The police wanted to come over at 10am. Something to do with forensics, they'd said. Great timing. And forensics ? What was that about ?

We'd never lied about anything - not to the police, not to the media, not to anyone else. But now we found ourselves in one of those tricky situations where we just didn't seem to have a choice. As it happened, Gerry had a mild stomach upset which we used as an excuse to postpone the trip. We didn't feel good about this at all, but even if the judicial secrecy law had not prevented us from giving the main reason, can you imagine what would have happened if we'd announced to the journalists heading to Huelva that the police were coming to do some forensic work in our villa ? We were not to know our excuse would prove to be no more than a temporary holding measure. If we had, we wouldn't have bothered trying to keep the scurrilous headlines at bay"


She goes on to say that when the police arrived  ( at 5pm ) they were asked to leave the villa.  On returning, Kate says she was  'devasted'  to find all of their clothes had been removed together with several other items.

Of that day  ( 2nd August 2007 )  Gerry McCann says this in his blog

"Today was a bit of a write off for me as I was laid low with a probable viral illness which meant I could not stray too far from the house!  I did manage to get through some e-mails, telephone calls, and some paperwork. Feeling a bit better tonight so hopefully be back to normal tomorrow. Kate did manage to put up some of the new Madeleine posters in shops around Praia da Luz .. it is noticably busier now we are in August, with lots of tourists many of whom are from Portugal.
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: HiDeHo on April 03, 2013, 05:36:13 PM
I cannot offer the link at this moment but on that morning Gerry can be seen in the Panorama documentary loading his van for the leaflets to take to Lisbon and this was also (I believe) the day when Jon Corner interviewed Kate.

Phone pings also indicate that.

Kate McCann interviewed by Jon Corner. August 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N47AUYhD4Dg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N47AUYhD4Dg)


There are documents in the files that claim either they, or someone to represent them could stay...from memory so I would need to find it.
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: icabodcrane on April 03, 2013, 05:45:46 PM


The lie Kate referred to was in telling the press  (  and through them,  the public )  that they were cancelling the trip to Huelva because Gerry was unwell



You then go on to quote Kate's book as evidence of a lie, yet she writes in her book "As it happened, Gerry had a mild stomach upset which we used as an excuse to postpone the trip."

So, what did she lie about exactly?

She lied to the media  (  and through them, the public ) about the reason for cancelling the Huelva trip

She acknowledges it in the qoute I gave above
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: sika on April 03, 2013, 05:51:00 PM


The lie Kate referred to was in telling the press  (  and through them,  the public )  that they were cancelling the trip to Huelva because Gerry was unwell



You then go on to quote Kate's book as evidence of a lie, yet she writes in her book "As it happened, Gerry had a mild stomach upset which we used as an excuse to postpone the trip."

So, what did she lie about exactly?

She lied to the media  (  and through them, the public ) about the reason for cancelling the Huelva trip

She acknowledges it in the qoute I gave above
I'm quite sure that Kate McCann would admit to having lied on dozens of occasions, during her lifetime. As have I and most probably, you also.  There is nothing to suggest that she lied to the Police during their investigation.
The point you make is totally irrelevant.
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: debunker on April 03, 2013, 05:52:29 PM


The lie Kate referred to was in telling the press  (  and through them,  the public )  that they were cancelling the trip to Huelva because Gerry was unwell



You then go on to quote Kate's book as evidence of a lie, yet she writes in her book "As it happened, Gerry had a mild stomach upset
which we used as an excuse to postpone the trip."

So, what did she lie about exactly?

She lied to the media  (  and through them, the public ) about the reason for cancelling the Huelva trip



She acknowledges it in the qoute I gave above

What defines a lie? Using the word for an error or obfuscation is incorrect. It is inflamatory. She did not say that the police were the reason for cancelling the trip, but obfuscated- which is not a lie.
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: icabodcrane on April 03, 2013, 06:00:42 PM


The lie Kate referred to was in telling the press  (  and through them,  the public )  that they were cancelling the trip to Huelva because Gerry was unwell



You then go on to quote Kate's book as evidence of a lie, yet she writes in her book "As it happened, Gerry had a mild stomach upset which we used as an excuse to postpone the trip."

So, what did she lie about exactly?

She lied to the media  (  and through them, the public ) about the reason for cancelling the Huelva trip

She acknowledges it in the qoute I gave above
I'm quite sure that Kate McCann would admit to having lied on dozens of occasions, during her lifetime. As have I and most probably, you also.  There is nothing to suggest that she lied to the Police during their investigation.
The point you make is totally irrelevant.

I disagree

Kate McCann, when faced with what she descibed as a  'tricky situation'  chose to lie ...  indeed, she confirms that she felt they had no choice  other  than to lie

It is fair and reasonable,  then,  to wonder whether there had been  other  'tricky situations'  the McCanns faced during the investigation,  and whether or not they had felt those situations, too,  left them no choice except to lie
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: debunker on April 03, 2013, 06:03:13 PM


The lie Kate referred to was in telling the press  (  and through them,  the public )  that they were cancelling the trip to Huelva because Gerry was unwell





You then go on to quote Kate's book as evidence of a lie, yet she writes in her book "As it happened, Gerry had a mild stomach upset which we used as an excuse to postpone the trip."



So, what did she lie about exactly?

She lied to the media  (  and through them, the public ) about the reason for cancelling the Huelva trip

She acknowledges it in the qoute I gave above

I'm quite sure that Kate McCann would admit to having lied on dozens of occasions, during her lifetime. As have I and most probably, you also.  There is nothing to suggest that she lied to the Police during their investigation.
The point you make is totally irrelevant.



I disagree

Kate McCann, when faced with what she descibed as a  'tricky situation'  chose to lie ...  indeed, she confirms that she felt they had no choice  other  than to lie



It is fair and reasonable,  then,  to wonder whether there had been  other  'tricky situations'  the McCanns faced during the investigation,  and whether or not they had felt those situations, too,  left them no choice except to lie

Please provide the exact words that you call a lie. I can see a misstatement of the whole truth, but I see no lie.
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: John on April 03, 2013, 06:04:49 PM
Lets just say that it was convenient to blame Gerry's mild stomach upset rather than have to concoct an elaborate lie for the benefit of the Press as to tell them that the police were wanting to carry out forensic examinations would have opened another tin of worms.   8(0(*
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: faithlilly on April 03, 2013, 06:11:59 PM
Kate certainly lied in her book when she said cadaver scent is only detectable for 30 days. By the time her book was written herself and her husband had researched the subject of cadaver dogs comprehensively and would have known her claim to be blatantly untrue.
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: sika on April 03, 2013, 06:12:15 PM


The lie Kate referred to was in telling the press  (  and through them,  the public )  that they were cancelling the trip to Huelva because Gerry was unwell



You then go on to quote Kate's book as evidence of a lie, yet she writes in her book "As it happened, Gerry had a mild stomach upset which we used as an excuse to postpone the trip."

So, what did she lie about exactly?

She lied to the media  (  and through them, the public ) about the reason for cancelling the Huelva trip

She acknowledges it in the qoute I gave above
I'm quite sure that Kate McCann would admit to having lied on dozens of occasions, during her lifetime. As have I and most probably, you also.  There is nothing to suggest that she lied to the Police during their investigation.
The point you make is totally irrelevant.

I disagree

Kate McCann, when faced with what she descibed as a  'tricky situation'  chose to lie ...  indeed, she confirms that she felt they had no choice  other  than to lie

It is fair and reasonable,  then,  to wonder whether there had been  other  'tricky situations'  the McCanns faced during the investigation,  and whether or not they had felt those situations, too,  left them no choice except to lie
I don't think that the example you have chosen, in any way suggests that Kate McCann was more likely than anyone else, to lie to the Police.
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: debunker on April 03, 2013, 06:21:22 PM
Kate certainly lied in her book when she said cadaver scent is only detectable for 30 days. By the time her book was written herself and her husband had researched the subject of cadaver dogs comprehensively and would have known her claim to be blatantly untrue.

That is not a lie. It was a false belief.

Cadaver odor does decline over time. On impervious surfaces, brief contact will have left no dettectable odor after several weeks.

You saying that Kate lied is not a lie- you truly believe it but you are wrong.
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: Eleanor on April 03, 2013, 06:26:15 PM
Kate certainly lied in her book when she said cadaver scent is only detectable for 30 days. By the time her book was written herself and her husband had researched the subject of cadaver dogs comprehensively and would have known her claim to be blatantly untrue.

If a Corpse isn't actually in situ then the smell does disappear in a fairly short space of time.  Otherwise all places where people have died would be stinking, and all the Dogs would be going berserk.  All dogs can smell Cadaver Scent, they just haven't been trained to isolate the smell for the purpose of Forensic Examination.
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: icabodcrane on April 03, 2013, 07:01:46 PM
Lets just say that it was convenient to blame Gerry's mild stomach upset rather than have to concoct an elaborate lie for the benefit of the Press as to tell them that the police were wanting to carry out forensic examinations would have opened another tin of worms.   8(0(*

The McCanns were bound by Portuguese law NOT to reveal details of the on-going investigation to the media.  Therefore when faced with the need to give the media a reason for not going to Huelva they had little choice but to give a convenient excuse.  This fact that this is freely admitted to by Kate McCann in her widely-read book rather emphasises her honesty than her supposed dishonest nature, because if it had been a blatant lie she would have been unlikely to draw attention to it in her book at all.

That's the thing though Martha,  this particular lie was already out there for all to see

The Police files record the events of 2nd August 2007,  including the search and removal of the McCanns' clothes and other items after they  ( the McCanns )  had been asked to leave the apartment  ...  Gerry McCann's blog makes no mention of the events that happened that day,  but,  instead,  states that a viral infection kept him in the apartment all day

As to judicial secrecy, they could quite simply have told the media who were intending to travel to Huelva that the trip was being postponed due to the investigation,  details of which they were not permitted to give

I have to add that I was a bit bemused by your suggestion that admission of deceptiveness is a sign of honesty   >@@(*&) 
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: debunker on April 03, 2013, 07:03:36 PM
Lets just say that it was convenient to blame Gerry's mild stomach upset rather than have to concoct an elaborate lie for the benefit of the Press as to tell them that the police were wanting to carry out forensic examinations would have opened another tin of worms.   8(0(*

The McCanns were bound by Portuguese law NOT to reveal details of the on-going investigation to the media.  Therefore when faced with the need to give the media a reason for not going to Huelva they had little choice but to give a convenient excuse.  This fact that this is freely admitted to by Kate McCann in her widely-read book rather emphasises her honesty than her supposed dishonest nature, because if it had been a blatant lie she would have been unlikely to draw attention to it in her book at all.


That's the thing though Martha,  this particular lie was already out there for all to see

The Police files record the events of 2nd August 2007,  including the search and removal of the McCanns' clothes and other items after they  ( the McCanns )  had been asked to leave the apartment  ...  Gerry McCann's blog makes no mention of the events that happened that day,  but,  instead,  states that a viral infection kept him in the apartment all day


As to judicial secrecy, they could quite simply have told the media who were intending to travel to Huelva that the trip was being postponed due to the investigation,  details of which they were not permitted to give

I have to add that I was a bit bemused by your suggestion that admission of deceptiveness is a sign of honesty   >@@(*&)

SO no-one actually lied.
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: sika on April 03, 2013, 07:08:42 PM
Lets just say that it was convenient to blame Gerry's mild stomach upset rather than have to concoct an elaborate lie for the benefit of the Press as to tell them that the police were wanting to carry out forensic examinations would have opened another tin of worms.   8(0(*

The McCanns were bound by Portuguese law NOT to reveal details of the on-going investigation to the media.  Therefore when faced with the need to give the media a reason for not going to Huelva they had little choice but to give a convenient excuse.  This fact that this is freely admitted to by Kate McCann in her widely-read book rather emphasises her honesty than her supposed dishonest nature, because if it had been a blatant lie she would have been unlikely to draw attention to it in her book at all.

That's the thing though Martha,  this particular lie was already out there for all to see

The Police files record the events of 2nd August 2007,  including the search and removal of the McCanns' clothes and other items after they  ( the McCanns )  had been asked to leave the apartment  ...  Gerry McCann's blog makes no mention of the events that happened that day,  but,  instead,  states that a viral infection kept him in the apartment all day

As to judicial secrecy, they could quite simply have told the media who were intending to travel to Huelva that the trip was being postponed due to the investigation,  details of which they were not permitted to give

I have to add that I was a bit bemused by your suggestion that admission of deceptiveness is a sign of honesty   >@@(*&)
Hi Icabodcrane, do you believe that the McCanns fellow diners, covered up for them?
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: icabodcrane on April 03, 2013, 07:11:45 PM
Lets just say that it was convenient to blame Gerry's mild stomach upset rather than have to concoct an elaborate lie for the benefit of the Press as to tell them that the police were wanting to carry out forensic examinations would have opened another tin of worms.   8(0(*

The McCanns were bound by Portuguese law NOT to reveal details of the on-going investigation to the media.  Therefore when faced with the need to give the media a reason for not going to Huelva they had little choice but to give a convenient excuse.  This fact that this is freely admitted to by Kate McCann in her widely-read book rather emphasises her honesty than her supposed dishonest nature, because if it had been a blatant lie she would have been unlikely to draw attention to it in her book at all.


That's the thing though Martha,  this particular lie was already out there for all to see

The Police files record the events of 2nd August 2007,  including the search and removal of the McCanns' clothes and other items after they  ( the McCanns )  had been asked to leave the apartment  ...  Gerry McCann's blog makes no mention of the events that happened that day,  but,  instead,  states that a viral infection kept him in the apartment all day


As to judicial secrecy, they could quite simply have told the media who were intending to travel to Huelva that the trip was being postponed due to the investigation,  details of which they were not permitted to give

I have to add that I was a bit bemused by your suggestion that admission of deceptiveness is a sign of honesty   >@@(*&)

SO no-one actually lied.

"We'd never lied about anything  ...  But now we found ourselves in one of those tricky situations where we just didn't seem to have much choice"

Of course,  you may choose not to believe Kate McCann when she admits to lying
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: sika on April 03, 2013, 07:16:47 PM
Lets just say that it was convenient to blame Gerry's mild stomach upset rather than have to concoct an elaborate lie for the benefit of the Press as to tell them that the police were wanting to carry out forensic examinations would have opened another tin of worms.   8(0(*

The McCanns were bound by Portuguese law NOT to reveal details of the on-going investigation to the media.  Therefore when faced with the need to give the media a reason for not going to Huelva they had little choice but to give a convenient excuse.  This fact that this is freely admitted to by Kate McCann in her widely-read book rather emphasises her honesty than her supposed dishonest nature, because if it had been a blatant lie she would have been unlikely to draw attention to it in her book at all.


That's the thing though Martha,  this particular lie was already out there for all to see

The Police files record the events of 2nd August 2007,  including the search and removal of the McCanns' clothes and other items after they  ( the McCanns )  had been asked to leave the apartment  ...  Gerry McCann's blog makes no mention of the events that happened that day,  but,  instead,  states that a viral infection kept him in the apartment all day


As to judicial secrecy, they could quite simply have told the media who were intending to travel to Huelva that the trip was being postponed due to the investigation,  details of which they were not permitted to give

I have to add that I was a bit bemused by your suggestion that admission of deceptiveness is a sign of honesty   >@@(*&)

SO no-one actually lied.

"We'd never lied about anything  ...  But now we found ourselves in one of those tricky situations where we just didn't seem to have much choice"

Of course,  you may choose not to believe Kate McCann when she admits to lying
I guess that Mrs McCann also needs educating, as to what constitutes a lie. 8)-)))
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: icabodcrane on April 03, 2013, 08:03:57 PM
In a tricky situation (eg: having committed to do something you don't really want to do or can no longer do) making an excuse (or "lying" to use your preferred terminology) is something that 99% of the population have done or would consider doing.  Do you disagree with this Ichabod Crane?  Do you think the McCanns are extraordinary or unusual for having exaggerated Gerry's illness as an excuse not to go to Huelva?

It was the circumstances that were extraordinary Martha

Here were a couple who were constantly reminding us  ( the public )  of the harm inaccurate information in the press presented to the search for their missing child

Yet they chose to feed inaccurate and misleading information to the press themselves
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: Eleanor on April 03, 2013, 11:26:36 PM
The McCanns are currently getting the blame in some quarters for what The Philpots did to their children.
Apparently it's their fault because The Philpots set up a Fund to bury their children because The McCanns set up a Fund.
Title: Re: The Anti forums are crowing that this Justice Forum has joined their side...
Post by: icabodcrane on April 03, 2013, 11:37:11 PM
The McCanns are currently getting the blame in some quarters for what The Philpots did to their children.
Apparently it's their fault because The Philpots set up a Fund to bury their children because The McCanns set up a Fund.

I havn't followed the Philpots story ...  did they mention the McCanns then  ?