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Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: debunker on April 03, 2013, 12:44:56 PM

Title: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: debunker on April 03, 2013, 12:44:56 PM
@HiDeHo

What odor does Eddie the Cadaver dog alert to?
What odor does Keela the Blood dog alert to?

What does a single alert by either mean?

Why are the deployed together?
Title: Re: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: debunker on April 03, 2013, 01:52:48 PM

'Eddie' The Enhanced Victim Recovery Dog (E.V.RD.) will search for and locate human remains and body fluids including blood to very small samples in any environment or terrain.
Title: Re: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: Eleanor on April 03, 2013, 02:00:14 PM

If anyone is interested in The Casey Anthony Case, a Cadaver Dog Handler testified in Court, and agreed that A Cadaver Dog, in the absence of an actual Cadaver, will react to decomposing body fluids of Live People.  ie, Blood, Urine and Semen.
Title: Re: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: John on April 03, 2013, 02:02:35 PM
Patience Debunker...Rome wasn't built in a day.  8(0(*
Title: Re: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: debunker on April 03, 2013, 02:03:01 PM

If anyone is interested in The Casey Anthony Case, a Cadaver Dog Handler testified in Court, and agreed that A Cadaver Dog, in the absence of an actual Cadaver, will react to decomposing body fluids of Live People.  ie, Blood, Urine and Semen.

Do you have a cite for that? I had not seen it.

WHere havethe [ censored word] gone?
Title: Re: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: John on April 03, 2013, 02:06:04 PM
Could you clear something up for me please?

I accept what you say about Eddie but can he notify an individual persons presence?  What I mean by this is could Eddie report Maddie's blood or fluids as distinct to anyone else?
Title: Re: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: Eleanor on April 03, 2013, 02:08:57 PM

If anyone is interested in The Casey Anthony Case, a Cadaver Dog Handler testified in Court, and agreed that A Cadaver Dog, in the absence of an actual Cadaver, will react to decomposing body fluids of Live People.  ie, Blood, Urine and Semen.

Do you have a cite for that? I had not seen it.

WHere havethe [ censored word] gone?

Sorry, I would have to trawl through all of the videos of The Casey Anthony Trial, which I watched in real time, so I know that it is true.  Sadly, I wouldn't know where to start.
But I will have a go at Google.
Title: Re: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: debunker on April 03, 2013, 02:09:06 PM
Patience Debunker...Rome wasn't built in a day.  8(0(*

Trouble is that I have done this before and find thatwithoutthe protection of biased mods on their own site, they disappear into thenight.

Tony Bennett whho based hisnotorious booklets on the McCanns on misunderstandings about dogs andDNA turned uparguing on a neutral board (Aussie Rules football). I challenged him to debate and eventuallyhehadtoagree thathewas in error. All the [ censored word] then withdrew back to CMOMM andthey pretended ithad not happened.

I fear we maysee thesame thing here. Mythsaremore important to them thantruth.
Title: Re: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: debunker on April 03, 2013, 02:10:11 PM

If anyone is interested in The Casey Anthony Case, a Cadaver Dog Handler testified in Court, and agreed that A Cadaver Dog, in the absence of an actual Cadaver, will react to decomposing body fluids of Live People.  ie, Blood, Urine and Semen.

Do you have a cite for that? I had not seen it.

WHere havethe [ censored word] gone?



Sorry, I would have to trawl through all of the videos of The Casey Anthony Trial, which I watched in real time, so I know that it is true.  Sadly, I wouldn't know where to start.
But I will have a go at Google.



That would be invaluable.
Title: Re: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: debunker on April 03, 2013, 02:12:29 PM
Could you clear something up for me please?

I accept what you say about Eddie but can he notify an individual persons presence?  What I mean by this is could Eddie report Maddie's blood or fluids as distinct to anyone else?

No. Not only has he not beentrained forthat, but identification by dog has been widelydiscreditedin the US where ithad led to a series of obviously false convictions.
Title: Re: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: Eleanor on April 03, 2013, 02:13:50 PM
Could you clear something up for me please?

I accept what you say about Eddie but can he notify an individual persons presence?  What I mean by this is could Eddie report Maddie's blood or fluids as distinct to anyone else?

No, definitely not.  How would he do that?  He can't even indicate if his alerts come from a dead or alive person.

He was originally trained as a Victim Recovery Dog, finding people in disasters who were either dead or alive.  Very useful if you are lying under a pile of rubble and not yet dead.
Title: Re: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: John on April 03, 2013, 02:15:49 PM
...and what about the other dog, what is its name and what has it been trained in?
Title: Re: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: Eleanor on April 03, 2013, 02:20:26 PM
...and what about the other dog, what is its name and what has it been trained in?


Keela is what is termed as a Blood Detection Dog.  She can find Dried Blood from Dead or Alive people.  She can't tell the difference either.
Title: Re: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: John on April 03, 2013, 02:21:45 PM
Can one of the dogs detect a cadaver specifically?
Title: Re: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: debunker on April 03, 2013, 02:21:57 PM
...and what about the other dog, what is its name and what has it been trained in?

Keela is ablood dog. Eddie was originallytrained as a blooddog.

Blood dogs can detect tinyamounts ofblood by odor.
Title: Re: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: debunker on April 03, 2013, 02:23:52 PM
Can one of the dogs detect a cadaver specifically?

NO!

If this line continues and I startrevealing the science, the [ censored word] willjustrun. Let me develop this slowly please.
Title: Re: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: HiDeHo on April 03, 2013, 02:33:51 PM
I posted this an hour ago. She had agreed to debate her contentions. I pmd HiDeHo about it. She has been showing as online since.

I apologise, I have only just seen your thread.  I am in the middle of moving house and working also so, although I can pop in occasionally I cannot dedicate time except, maybe early morning (I was up at 3.30am this morning) or sometimes later at night. (Canada time EST)

I look forward to discussions.

(I show as online because the page remains open.)

I have not yet read your pm but will, once I have posted this.

I WAS posting on another thread and because Hanover have removed the details from their website I spent a considerable amount of time finding it.  However its 9.30 am and I need to get to work.
Title: Re: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: debunker on April 03, 2013, 02:38:12 PM
Perhaps you can answer the questions from the OP before you go




What odor does Eddie the Cadaver dog alert to?
What odor does Keela the Blood dog alert to?

What does a single alert by either mean?

Why are the deployed together?
Title: Re: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: Eleanor on April 03, 2013, 02:42:19 PM
Can one of the dogs detect a cadaver specifically?

No.  Eddie couldn't unlearn Dried Blood Detection after he had been trained to do this.
And personally, I think it is impossible since all body fluids give off a small of decomposition after they have left any one person, dead or alive.  This is why they need Forensics that aren't contaminated.
Title: Re: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: HiDeHo on April 03, 2013, 02:52:18 PM
debunker....  You have known me for a long time. When have you EVER known me to be concise never mind one word answers!  ?{)(**
Title: Re: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: debunker on April 03, 2013, 02:54:30 PM
debunker....  You have known me for a long time. When have you EVER known me to be concise never mind one word answers!  ?{)(**

The questionsare simple, onlyrequiring short answers

What odor does Eddie the Cadaver dog alert to?
What odor does Keela the Blood dog alert to?

What does a single alert by either mean?

Why are the deployed together?
Title: Re: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: sika on April 03, 2013, 03:01:31 PM
But you are avoiding. Answer thequestions - itwill take onlyseconds. Oneword answers will do.
http://ordinisrubricrucis.wordpress.com/2013/03/19/canadian-national-has-influence-over-met-police-mccann-gun-probe/
I'm also waiting!
You have posted umpteen videos on the World Wide Web, heavily implying that the McCanns have been up to no good.
The least you can do is answer some straight forward questions.

How could Mr Smith have seen Gerry McCann that evening?
Do you believe that the McCanns friends were mistaken, when stating that they were with Gerry that evening?
Title: Re: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: Eleanor on April 03, 2013, 03:08:53 PM

If anyone is interested in The Casey Anthony Case, a Cadaver Dog Handler testified in Court, and agreed that A Cadaver Dog, in the absence of an actual Cadaver, will react to decomposing body fluids of Live People.  ie, Blood, Urine and Semen.

Do you have a cite for that? I had not seen it.

WHere havethe [ censored word] gone?



Sorry, I would have to trawl through all of the videos of The Casey Anthony Trial, which I watched in real time, so I know that it is true.  Sadly, I wouldn't know where to start.
But I will have a go at Google.



That would be invaluable.

Jose Baez questioning of Kristin Brewer in The Casey Anthony Case.  Scroll down.  I was not able to copy and paste the relevant chapter.  But it is quite plain.

http://caseyanthony-trial.blogspot.fr/2011/06/bones-k-9-caseys-computers.html
Title: Re: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: sika on April 03, 2013, 03:18:24 PM
Shehas seemingly run away.
No surprise there!
There is not one, single shred of evidence which implicates the McCanns in any wrongdoing. Further more, I've yet to hear any vaguely persuasive arguments to support these claims.
Title: Re: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: sika on April 03, 2013, 09:54:23 PM
Hello HiDeHo.

I can see you hidden in plain sight.

Welcome back.

Do debate if you dare.
Please do HiDeHo, your credibility is disappearing down the pan, rapidly.
What are you doing here, if not to debate?
Title: Re: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: Eleanor on April 03, 2013, 10:03:41 PM

But, but, they are always hollering for debate, and this is the perfect opportunity.
Title: Re: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: sadie on April 06, 2013, 12:45:47 AM
Del

Title: Re: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: John on April 06, 2013, 02:55:20 AM
What's the point?   We know that the dog evidence amounts to very little if anything as the handler has refused to commit himself to any determination unless backed up by DNA evidence.

Since the DNA results have failed miserably to connect tested samples with Madeleine I fail to see the point in anything the dogs reacted to.
Title: Re: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: Jean-Pierre on April 06, 2013, 03:07:43 AM
John - well put. Seconded.
Title: Re: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: Carana on April 06, 2013, 09:42:56 AM
Eddie also reacted to post-coital fluids.

From Grime's Jersey report (referring to one of Eddie's alerts):

VT / 9 Trench and gun emplacement containing small personnel shelter. Forensic examination revealed recently deposited tissues that appeared to have been used to ‘clean up following sexual intercourse’. It would appear that the shelter had been used as a venue for courting couples. This alert is within the trained parameters of the dog’s repertoire and is a satisfactory explanation of the alert.

http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39078056/Rebuttal%20of%20%22Fact%22%2032
Title: Re: HiDeHo and debunker debate the dog evidence
Post by: debunker on April 06, 2013, 10:29:08 AM
Eddie also reacted to post-coital fluids.

From Grime's Jersey report (referring to one of Eddie's alerts):

VT / 9 Trench and gun emplacement containing small personnel shelter. Forensic examination revealed recently deposited tissues that appeared to have been used to ‘clean up following sexual intercourse’. It would appear that the shelter had been used as a venue for courting couples. This alert is within the trained parameters of the dog’s repertoire and is a satisfactory explanation of the alert.

http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39078056/Rebuttal%20of%20%22Fact%22%2032

"Cadaver" dogs alert to menstrual flow, suppurating wounds, infected phlegm and any other bodily fluid or solid undergoing biological decomposition such as urine from someone with a urinary tract infection.