UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
News and current affairs => The Coronavirus and Covid-19 => Topic started by: sadie on March 15, 2020, 02:37:15 PM
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Lots of us have worries about the Covid-19 virus, so thought that a new thread in this section might be useful.
Our daughter who is like a "Mother Hen" to us , especially atm, is medical. She has been stood down because of the extra dangers to dentists and she is scouring the internet for tips and info. We are getting at least 6 emails per day at present. She also is full of ideas herself.
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Tip 1
Keep your right pocket for new sterile gloves/99% wipes etc
In your left pocket keep a small polythene bag.
All used gloves wipes etc go into there, unless a suitable bin is available
Then bin it immediately.
wash your hands, or sterilize them immediately
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Tip 2
When washing your hands do it vigourously ... and do it thoroughly, between the fingers and he backs of the hand, undr the nails if possible
Sing the song 'Happy Birthday to me' twice through ... and that should be sufficient time to do a good job
If you have it, a drop of 99.9% sanitiser wouldn't go amiss, particularly if you are a bit worried about having touched something
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Tip 3
Make your home and your car virus free areas, so that you can touch anything safely in either place
If around and about, as your leave the house pull the door closed with either the key or with fresh gloved hands.
Open the car door with gloves on (unless the handle has been freshly sanitised). Take the gloves off turning them inside out, before getting in the car and immediately put them in a plastic bag or similar for contaminated stuff. Dispose of these items asap.
Upon reaching the shops, put clean gloves on and depart the door in a sterile manner. You might want to put on a face mask at this time but bear in mind that
i) the masks are only good for about 20 minutes, when they become saturatd. I don't know whether this is true of more advanced masks
ii) Other peoples sneezing can still land on you.
If you have, or may have, the virus, or any signs ... and absolutely must go out ... then it is imperative you put the face mask on and if posssible change it regularly for the safety of others and to slow down the progress of of the virus
These masks are far more use for keeping coughs and sneezes/ virus to the already affected wearer than they are to people who are free of the virus
Take the trolley back. You have been wearing clean gloves so little need to wipe the trolley handle.
Open the car boot and doors electronically if possible cos it is imperative that the interior of the car remains a safe zone. Have a special designated box/s inside . Everything foodwise or shopping wise goes in there.
Before getting into the car, but with the door open take your gloves off, turning them inside out and one glove encapsulated into the other. Straight into the plastic bag in your left pocket or a designated plastic bag in the car
There is a special technique for taking both gloves off without touching the possibly contaminated outer surface, but I haven't the energy atm to go thru that.
I feel that I have missed bits here, but I think that you will get the gist. Keep contamination out of your car and house. Take used gloves off before entering either, then you have two safe zones and your car is effectively an extension to your virus free home.
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Tip 4
Try and buy in small lots then you can pay by the special none contact device on your card. You dont want to be touching buttons or keying in numbers on pads, which will become infected. Go in several times and buy in small lots unless you are wearing special gloves.
Neither do you want to be handling dirty cash.
Try and buy when shops are quiet, with no-one to infect you. They say that at 2 metres, you are safe, but if you are short or in a wheelchair, maybe keep a little further away from the nearest person if you can
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Tip 5
It is possible to make your ownn sterilizing solution. Am too tired atm., but it is on the internet. Perhaps someone can look it up for me and post it
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Tip 6
We have a couple of designated boxes in the garage. Everything that comes in, food or parcels etc., goes in there for 3-4 days, before we touch it.
We dont know if this is long enough but hopefully it is;
We have a camping/ caravanning fridge. chiller stuff goes in there for a period.
Unfortunately we dont know if freezing or heat kills it or even maybe encourages it. After all it flourished in China which is pretty cold in places and also in the Dolomites of Northern Italy.
Bread and the Royal mail post are both a bit tricky but we eat the bread after one or two days, keeping it in isolation until then. Hubby is quite good at getting into the envelopes and reaching the letters without touching anything nsty.
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Tip 7
A How-To Guide for the Removal (Doffing) of Disposable Gloves:
i) Pinch and hold the outside of the glove near the wrist area.
ii) Peel downwards, away from the wrist, turning the glove inside out.
iii) Pull the glove away until it is removed from the hand and hold the inside-out glove with the gloved hand.
iv) With your un-gloved hand, slide your finger/s under the wrist of the remaining glove, taking care not to touch the outside of the glove.
v) Again, peel downwards, away from the wrist, turning the glove inside out.
vi) Continue to pull the glove down and over the inside-out glove being held in your gloved hand.
vii) This will ensure that both gloves are inside out, one glove enveloped inside the other, with no contaminant on the bare hands.
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Tip 8
Order in food. There is now a waiting list certainly at some supermarkets.
We had some delivered from Morrisons about 3 days ago and we had to wait nearly 5 days then. I believe that the delivery waiting times have increased considerably since then, so I suggest you book your slot asap and gradually add food to your list in the waiting period
Get your isolation boxes ready before they come. Ours are in the garage. and a camping fridge for isolating chilled meals. bacon, cheese and bread, so we only order in freezer stuff that we can thaw out gradually in the fridge for us to eat in the next 3 days or so
Our freezer is absolutely full, mainly with ready meals
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There are more tips, but can't think of them at present ... and I am ready for a snooze.
Hope these help
Please add your own tips / info
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Tip 9
OK so you are in a place that might have Corona virus on the surfaces and you have your plastic/rubber gloves on. you are safe.
Trouble is that you keep absent mindedly touching your face, rubbing your nose or eyes etc. That action is transferring the virus to you directly from off your gloves.
Try rubbing your gloves on a cut onion. As you bring the gloves near your face, the smell of the onion will remind you what you are doing ... and stop you
8(>((
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Tip 10
As this problem might go on for months, how about growing your own veggies?
Veggies are difficult to handle keeping free from the virus and some not easy to wash proprly. Grown in your own back garden or maybe even on your balcony, they will be free of coronovrus and absolutely fresh
Keep chickens / ducks and feed your scraps to them. In return they will give you their eggs. ducks like a pond tho and will mess your garden up with slippery patches tho'
... but they are lots of fun to watch .... and you are going to have plenty of watching time methinks.
I can't think of any more tips. Maybe more will come to mind.
Hope these help you.
Please add your tips. Any new info would be welcome.
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Thank you for sharing, Sadie. Our President, Mr Ramaphosa has just announced the following: it is a national disaster; no travelling to high risk countries; no passports to be issued; gatherings of more than 100 people are forbidden; all festivals are cancelled, including sport, culture etc.; schools are closing on Wednesday and the vacation has been extended to 14 April, until after Easter; Universities will also close until further notification. A week ago we had 4 confirmed cases of the virus and today it is 61.
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Thank you for sharing, Sadie. Our President, Mr Ramaphosa has just announced the following: it is a national disaster; no travelling to high risk countries; no passports to be issued; gatherings of more than 100 people are forbidden; all festivals are cancelled, including sport, culture etc.; schools are closing on Wednesday and the vacation has been extended to 14 April, until after Easter; Universities will also close until further notification. A week ago we had 4 confirmed cases of the virus and today it is 61.
I think it is increasing exponentially, is it not? Frightening
(https://www.mathwarehouse.com/exponential-growth/images/exponential_growth_image.webp)
The above is an exponential curve showing how the deaths increase very slowly to begin with but rapidly increase in little time.
Rather like a Cape Canaveral rocket taking off for the moon. To begin with it climbs very slowly, then almost suddenly picks up speed until it is shooting off into the sky at incredible speeds.
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Thank you for sharing, Sadie. Our President, Mr Ramaphosa has just announced the following: it is a national disaster; no travelling to high risk countries; no passports to be issued; gatherings of more than 100 people are forbidden; all festivals are cancelled, including sport, culture etc.; schools are closing on Wednesday and the vacation has been extended to 14 April, until after Easter; Universities will also close until further notification. A week ago we had 4 confirmed cases of the virus and today it is 61.
I wish that we were taking a stronger stance.
After all we all know that 'a stitch in time saves nine.'
I feel so sorry for all that are losing their jobs and incomes. My friend is off to Oz at the beginning of April to visit her daughter. Personally I think she is crazy, but it is her life and decision. None of my business.
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I wish that we were taking a stronger stance.
After all we all know that 'a stitch in time saves nine.'
I feel so sorry for all that are losing their jobs and incomes. My friend is off to Oz at the beginning of April to visit her daughter. Personally I think she is crazy, but it is her life and decision. None of my business.
How long is she planning on staying? In NZ there is a 14-day self-isolation period to start with.
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Yesterday I was scared witless. Today I am outraged. I am not old, but according to the scaremongering that I am reading then I am old.
Fortunately I live far from the madding crowd where the air is super clean and since I don't go out all that often into towns I doubt that I will catch it, let alone die from it. Or pass it on.
The Food Bank is still operating with a few simple restrictions. Don't kiss anyone and don't stand too close. The people who volunteer are my age, so how brave is that. They don't want it either.
We aren't stupid because we are old. I already know what to do to limit the possibility. But before you know it we will be charged with being responsible just because we are old.
I need to access Food and I would rather go to The Food Bank than to the local Supermarket. So don't try ordering me to self isolate.
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Yesterday I was scared witless. Today I am outraged. I am not old, but according to the scaremongering that I am reading then I am old.
Fortunately I live far from the madding crowd where the air is super clean and since I don't go out all that often into towns I doubt that I will catch it, let alone die from it. Or pass it on.
The Food Bank is still operating with a few simple restrictions. Don't kiss anyone and don't stand too close. The people who volunteer are my age, so how brave is that. They don't want it either.
We aren't stupid because we are old. I already know what to do to limit the possibility. But before you know it we will be charged with being responsible just because we are old.
I need to access Food and I would rather go to The Food Bank than to the local Supermarket. So don't try ordering me to self isolate.
So which is it - old or not old ?
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So which is it - old or not old ?
You tell me. Are you old?
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So which is it - old or not old ?
I know precisely where Eleanor is coming from with this. I have been feeling stigmatised.
Of late I have been out every other day and taking lunch outside. I really wasn't aware of how vitally important our cafe society is for people for whom these interludes of social contact are welcome breaks from the loneliness of sitting in looking at four walls all day ... and it is not just "the elderly".
Isolating and other measures to contain the disease is obviously necessary but the young person standing next to me is as likely to have it as I might be and it only seems to be now that is being taken on board.
I can take being triaged out of existence but leave off the patronising platitudes.
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The problem is that the virus is relativley harmless to young people but can be deadly to older people..dare I say...particularly to those who smoke. So best for those over 70 to lie low and avoid contact
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You tell me. Are you old?
Of course, but not as old as you, I believe.
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Of course, but not as old as you, I believe.
It often depends on how old you feel. And of course old people aren't made to feel like pariahs in France.
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Guess what. I might have trouble getting into the supermarket tomorrow to buy Dog Food. Can't let the dog starve can we.
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In UK, it hasn't yet been made clear just when we go under house arrest, or exactly how it will be enforced.
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Guess what. I might have trouble getting into the supermarket tomorrow to buy Dog Food. Can't let the dog starve can we.
Unless like the andrex commercial dogs who have an addiction to toilet rolls...
I agree it is intolerable to stigmatize the more mature in our society. Grannie Aitkin (84) is on her quad bike delivering goods to those who are housebound /disabled or are reliant on food banks (our group stock piled for our local food bank as they were running short of some items) We included pet supplies as well!!
I think the rules is the elderly who are vulnerable should be protected/isolated. We have a great village community and know each other.
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In UK, it hasn't yet been made clear just when we go under house arrest, or exactly how it will be enforced.
Gun shot to the head I imagine. They will have to allow people to get out for shopping etc.
I think this thread should be placed under general information as there are good tips that others who don't come to the McCanns thread may miss out on.
I am not being funny or anything.It is important topic.
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Guess what. I might have trouble getting into the supermarket tomorrow to buy Dog Food. Can't let the dog starve can we.
Do you have online ordering and delivery?
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The advice from the WHO is to "test, test, test" but unless you are at deaths door you can't get a test here in the UK.
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The problem is that the virus is relativley harmless to young people but can be deadly to older people..dare I say...particularly to those who smoke. So best for those over 70 to lie low and avoid contact
To be honest, that advice goes for everyone. The least contact the better, self isolation is a really good idea for anyone who can do it.
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Really thoughtful idea Sadie to start this thread - good useful tips.
I read a book some years ago with scary similarities to this virus - The eyes of darkness.
it was basically invented in the book to weed out the sick and infirm in China.
“Wuhan-400”, the name of the city where the coronavirus originated.
A 1981 novel by horror writer Dean Koontz predicted the coronavirus outbreak, it has been claimed.
Buried in the book The Eyes of Darkness, which revolves around a grieving mother investigating the mysterious circumstances of her son’s death, is a peculiar reference to a killer virus known as “Wuhan-400”, the name of the city where the coronavirus originated.
The excerpt features a character discussing biological warfare, calling the virus “the perfect weapon”.
“A Chinese scientist … defected to the United States, carrying a diskette record of China’s most important and dangerous new biological weapon in a decade,” the character says.
On a lighter note - I told my 4 year old g/son to sing happy birthday to me when whashing his hands.
He proceeded to do that by singing - happy birthday to nana. @)(++(*
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Oh wow - sorry if not appropriate for the thread but hope its true it will disappear as quickly as it started.
Dean Koontz’s book The Eyes Of Darkness is getting a lot of renewed attention now, despite being nearly 40 years old. The book mentions a deadly virus called the “Wuhan 400,” which he described as a “severe pneumonia-like illness” that spreads attacking “the lungs and bronchial tubes” and “resisting all known treatments.”
He’s not the only person who seemed to have predicted the virus — or just had a good imagination to come up something which happened to partially overlap with actual events. So-called “psychic” Sylvia Browne supposedly predicted something like the coronavirus in her End Of Days book that, apparently, some of the Kardashians have read and recently quoted.
https://v1019.com/2020/03/10/did-author-dean-koontz-predict-coronavirus-in-80s-suspense-thriller/
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/coronavirus-dean-koontz-eyes-of-darkness-conspiracy-wuhan-china-symptoms-a9364386.html
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Oh wow - sorry if not appropriate for the thread but hope its true it will disappear as quickly as it started.
Dean Koontz’s book The Eyes Of Darkness is getting a lot of renewed attention now, despite being nearly 40 years old. The book mentions a deadly virus called the “Wuhan 400,” which he described as a “severe pneumonia-like illness” that spreads attacking “the lungs and bronchial tubes” and “resisting all known treatments.”
He’s not the only person who seemed to have predicted the virus — or just had a good imagination to come up something which happened to partially overlap with actual events. So-called “psychic” Sylvia Browne supposedly predicted something like the coronavirus in her End Of Days book that, apparently, some of the Kardashians have read and recently quoted.
https://v1019.com/2020/03/10/did-author-dean-koontz-predict-coronavirus-in-80s-suspense-thriller/
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/coronavirus-dean-koontz-eyes-of-darkness-conspiracy-wuhan-china-symptoms-a9364386.html
I'd say that is basically science fiction.
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I'd say that is basically science fiction.
Probably but what a coincidence same town same symptoms
“Wuhan-400”, the name of the city where the coronavirus originated.
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Probably but what a coincidence same town same symptoms
“Wuhan-400”, the name of the city where the coronavirus originated.
Question is, was is released by design or by accident if indeed it did originate from a Wuhan research lab and not from eating bats and rats.?
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People should be aware that the toilet rolls one buys in the UK are mostly manufactured here and not in China as the fake news has been claiming. There is plenty to go round so please stop over buying peeps.
The Covid-19 test kits should be available soon too if anyone wants to do the test privately.
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People should be aware that the toilet rolls one buys in the UK are mostly manufactured here and not in China as the fake news has been claiming. There is plenty to go round so please stop over buying peeps.
The Covid-19 test kits should be available soon too if anyone wants to do the test privately.
Well that is good news - I think testing kits are essential
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Question is, was is released by design or by accident if indeed it did originate from a Wuhan research lab and not from eating bats and rats.?
It is a strange one really. however I did read somewhere that the first person known to have had it was not from WUHAN district. Please don't ask me for a cite I didn't think to keep it.
It is a similar situation regarding HIV and monkeys in AFRICA. some cats can carry that virus too. It does morph as a virus as it spreads to humans and other species.
I have been to China on a few occasions- I do love that country- not at the tourist areas and their markets can seem very scary places, all sorts of creatures. snake wine on offer ew and bats for eating and medicinal use.
The thing is Bats for some reason are a protected species in the UK. Flying Rats they are known as.
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Question is, was is released by design or by accident if indeed it did originate from a Wuhan research lab and not from eating bats and rats.?
“They call the stuff ‘Wuhan-400’ because it was developed at their RDNA labs outside the city of Wuhan.”
“Wuhan-400 is the perfect weapon,” he says.
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“They call the stuff ‘Wuhan-400’ because it was developed at their RDNA labs outside the city of Wuhan.”
“Wuhan-400 is the perfect weapon,” he says.
who are you quoting Kiz?
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who are you quoting Kiz?
Just from the links, I posted earlier about the book.
I saw somewhere a doctor tried to expose it a lot earlier before it took hold in China, and ended up dying of the virus.
The Chinese doctor who tried to warn others about coronavirus
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-51364382
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Just from the links, I posted earlier about the book.
I saw somewhere a doctor tried to expose it a lot earlier before it took hold in China, and ended up dying of the virus.
The Chinese doctor who tried to warn others about coronavirus
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-51364382
Oh yes I recall this. Thank you for reminding me. the guy was made a hero and many people demonstrated against the government.
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Really thoughtful idea Sadie to start this thread - good useful tips.
I read a book some years ago with scary similarities to this virus - The eyes of darkness.
it was basically invented in the book to weed out the sick and infirm in China.
“Wuhan-400”, the name of the city where the coronavirus originated.
A 1981 novel by horror writer Dean Koontz predicted the coronavirus outbreak, it has been claimed.
Buried in the book The Eyes of Darkness, which revolves around a grieving mother investigating the mysterious circumstances of her son’s death, is a peculiar reference to a killer virus known as “Wuhan-400”, the name of the city where the coronavirus originated.
The excerpt features a character discussing biological warfare, calling the virus “the perfect weapon”.
“A Chinese scientist … defected to the United States, carrying a diskette record of China’s most important and dangerous new biological weapon in a decade,” the character says.
On a lighter note - I told my 4 year old g/son to sing happy birthday to me when whashing his hands.
He proceeded to do that by singing - happy birthday to nana. @)(++(*
Glad that you are teaching your g/son ways of prorecting himself, but ....
The * Happy birthday to me * song should be sung twice actually. Maybe as he is only 4 and has litte hands, singing it once will be suffient time. Dunno
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Glad that you are teaching your g/son ways of prorecting himself, but ....
The * Happy birthday to me * song should be sung twice actually. Maybe as he is only 4 and has litte hands, singing it once will be suffient time. Dunno
He loves playing with water Sadie - he would stand there all day if we let him.
There is hand sanitizer as well - something that has always been there instead of soap but now both.
While on the subject - I have been cutting hand towels in half longways and changing them twice aday.
The reason does any bacteria stay on the towel for anyone else drying there hands.
Using kitchen roll as well - but that ended up soggy with wet hands.
It crossed my mind when I was at my Friends house the other night and dried my hands on toilet roll
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Oh yes I recall this. Thank you for reminding me. the guy was made a hero and many people demonstrated against the government.
It does make you wonder if there was a method in their madness - by silencing him till it had took hold IMO
As in the book it was designed to get rid of the weak - the strongest would survive.
Especially knowing how overpopulated and cruel it can be in China
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I wonder too, Kizzy
I think that maybe we a bit complacent here believing what the authoroties tell us all the time.
I actually like whistle blowers, but not if they jeopardize the country; it has to be done in the right way. But don't ask me what the right way is, cos I haven't a clue tbh.
Some of these whistle blowers are, it appears, so clever. It is a shame that their abilities cannot be used productively for The Countries good.
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I have been ordered by The French Government and my son to stay at home. although I have to admit that my son was a bit behind The Government.
Phew, what a relief. I never have been one of The World's great shoppers, finding the whole business extremely boring, especially Toilet Rolls.
So for the next four weeks, hopefully longer, i don't have to go out at all, except into the garden which happens to be in serious need of a bit of effort after the endless rain and the dog dug it up.
Yesterday I planted 15 Broad Bean Seeds and five Seed Potatoes, all in pots, which the dog hasn't yet discovered how to dig up. In fact he climbed into one of them last week and then couldn't get out. I should have left him there, rotten little swine, but he looked so pathetic that I was moved to rescue him. He has since dug two more blimmin great holes in his relentless pursuit of Badgers. I've told him we haven't got any, but he doesn't believe me.
Can you keep an eye out for him please, Rob. He is an exceedingly beautiful, short haired, snake eyed Dachshund who loves everybody and without a nasty bone in his body. Nope, you can't keep him, but you could hang on to him for a bit, until he grows up, if ever.
This would have been a Blog, if I could get into it, but I can't at the moment for some strange reason, so you will have to forgive me for going a bit Off Topic. The need to Blog occasionally overwhelms me.
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The advice from the WHO is to "test, test, test" but unless you are at deaths door you can't get a test here in the UK.
Don't faint, either, John. I agree with you for once. ;)
https://twitter.com/OxfordDiplomat/status/1240776914693951496
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Useful tips, sadie! 8@??)(
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as I posted on another thread:
"What I have been trying is using a 0.5% Hydrogen Peroxide solution intranasally at least 2 pumps per nostril. There hasn't been any burning or ill effects from this strength.
0.5% is a 1/6 strength of the commonly retailed 3% solution. I have tried hourly sprays or 4 sprays before and after going out into the community.
I can wash my hands and using this I can wash my nasal passages. Best of luck."
Does anyone have any comments to make about this? My son tried a 1% spray and found it slightly burning. So please don't use full strength (3%) or if you do be careful.
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as I posted on another thread:
"What I have been trying is using a 0.5% Hydrogen Peroxide solution intranasally at least 2 pumps per nostril. There hasn't been any burning or ill effects from this strength.
0.5% is a 1/6 strength of the commonly retailed 3% solution. I have tried hourly sprays or 4 sprays before and after going out into the community.
I can wash my hands and using this I can wash my nasal passages. Best of luck."
Does anyone have any comments to make about this? My son tried a 1% spray and found it slightly burning. So please don't use full strength (3%) or if you do be careful.
I read somewhere that if you feel a cold or flu coming on then put two or three drops of slightly diluted 3% Hydrogen Peroxide in each ear.
I tried this once and whatever it was went away almost immediately. I also sometimes gargle with the same solution. It is best to dilute it.
Ears, Nose and Throat if anyone needs reminding.
Thanks, Rob. An often ignored remedy. I did tell someone else about this but they fell about laughing.
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as I posted on another thread:
"What I have been trying is using a 0.5% Hydrogen Peroxide solution intranasally at least 2 pumps per nostril. There hasn't been any burning or ill effects from this strength.
0.5% is a 1/6 strength of the commonly retailed 3% solution. I have tried hourly sprays or 4 sprays before and after going out into the community.
I can wash my hands and using this I can wash my nasal passages. Best of luck."
Does anyone have any comments to make about this? My son tried a 1% spray and found it slightly burning. So please don't use full strength (3%) or if you do be careful.
It)s not going to kill the Covid-19 virus. I have used over the counter nasal sprays like this before and they had little or no effect in halting the symptoms of a common cold.
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I read somewhere that if you feel a cold or flu coming on then put two or three drops of slightly diluted 3% Hydrogen Peroxide in each ear.
I tried this once and whatever it was went away almost immediately. I also sometimes gargle with the same solution. It is best to dilute it.
Ears, Nose and Throat if anyone needs reminding.
Thanks, Rob. An often ignored remedy. I did tell someone else about this but they fell about laughing.
Best not tell everyone or else supermarket shelves will be drained of H2O2 as well... https://drdefino.com/hydrogen-peroxide (https://drdefino.com/hydrogen-peroxide)
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It)s not going to kill the Covid-19 virus. I have used over the counter nasal sprays like this before and they had little or no effect in halting the symptoms of a common cold.
Even if you wash your hands you could still catch a cold. Look I'm thinking of a way to prevent the initial infection. Use it before you get sick rather than to cure it.
Maybe I'll need to spray into my ears as well just in case. Hand spray onto my hands, nasal spray up my nose and into my ears. But I'm being very cautious and only using a 0.5% solution.
Thanks for the discussion.
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Best not tell everyone or else supermarket shelves will be drained of H2O2 as well... https://drdefino.com/hydrogen-peroxide (https://drdefino.com/hydrogen-peroxide)
There you go. Perhaps not as daft as I sound. Better check if I've got any.
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Careful guys: there are loads of quack recipes going around that are either useless or could cause damage.
On the other thread, I posted the WHO recipe for hand sanitizer. And that's an emergency option to actually washing your hands properly with soap.
Posting it here as well.
https://www.who.int/gpsc/5may/Guide_to_Local_Production.pdf
It looks complicated (the vats and what-not are intended for largish quantities for bush dispensaries), but it's not hard to make at home in much smaller quantities.
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The WHO is trying to keep with COVID19-related myths. Check here:
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/myth-busters
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The WHO is trying to keep with COVID19-related myths. Check here:
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/myth-busters
That was interesting Carana for the WHO didn't say it would not help. Saline and the action of Peroxide (H2O2) are completely different. H2O2 is known to kill viruses, but I'm unaware that salt does the same.
Nothing in the WHO article specifically mentioned H2O2.
"Can regularly rinsing your nose with saline help prevent infection with the new coronavirus?
No. There is no evidence that regularly rinsing the nose with saline has protected people from infection with the new coronavirus.
There is some limited evidence that regularly rinsing nose with saline can help people recover more quickly from the common cold. However, regularly rinsing the nose has not been shown to prevent respiratory infections."
In fact, I think we are all going to have to face the virus before long so I'm thinking we all need to get infected over a period of time preferably with a mild dose of Covid 19 rather than a severe dose. The secret will be to discover how to keep yourself in the "70% who get over it easily" group. That's IMO any way.
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Rob
From the hand sanitizer recipe: Hydrogen peroxide: used to inactivate contaminating bacterial spores in the solution and is not an active substance for hand [ censored word]epsis.
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The most important thing is to stop the virus getting into your body in the first place.
Washing your hands isn't just a matter of flicking them under a tap. Here's a little video:
https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1241177007305744384
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Rob
From the hand sanitizer recipe: Hydrogen peroxide: used to inactivate contaminating bacterial spores in the solution and is not an active substance for hand [ censored word]epsis.
Are you saying the peroxide is still present when used? I'd say it has been used up by that stage. I will look at the recipe and consider it.
Do you know what hydrogen peroxide will react with?
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Rob
From the hand sanitizer recipe: Hydrogen peroxide: used to inactivate contaminating bacterial spores in the solution and is not an active substance for hand [ censored word]epsis.
Looking at that recipe for hand sanitizer, the amount of peroxide used ends up be a very small part "• Hydrogen peroxide 0.125% (v/v)"
I'm using 0.5% and this is 0.125% or about a quarter strength compared to what I'm trialing.
From a spray bottle I can flood my hands with a peroxide solution. To get the same amount of peroxide from the hand sanitizer you'd have to use 20 ml or so per hand.
In the directions, they talk of the flashpoint of the alcohol. https://www.who.int/gpsc/5may/Guide_to_Local_Production.pdf
"Flashpoint- the temperature at which a liquid gives off a vapor that can be ignited. Every liquid that will burn has a flashpoint. The flashpoint of ethanol depends on whether it is pure 100% ethanol (which is very rare) or mixed with water. The more water, the higher the flashpoint."
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The most important thing is to stop the virus getting into your body in the first place.
Washing your hands isn't just a matter of flicking them under a tap. Here's a little video:
https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1241177007305744384
That video didn't load for me.
There is a scientific paper "[Virus inactivation by hydrogen peroxide].
[Article in Russian]
Mentel' R, Shirrmakher R, Kevich A, Dreĭzin RS, Shmidt I." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/203115"
"Abstract
The effect of H2O2 on adenovirus types 3 and 6, adenoassociated virus type 4, rhinoviruses 1A, 1B, and type 7, myxoviruses, influenza A and B, respiratory syncytial virus, strain Long, and coronavirus strain 229E was studied in vitro, using different H2O2 concentration and time of exposure. H2O2 in a 3 percent concentration inactivated all the viruses under study within 1--30 min. Coronavirus and influenza viruses were found to be most sensitive. Reoviruses, adenoviruses and adenoassociated virus were relatively stable. H2O2 is a convenient means for virus inactivation."
OK that study was using the 3% solution. My theory is that as the 0.5% H2O2 is drying on the hands and inside the nose the concentration of the peroxide will increase and thereby causing virus inactivation.
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Ran out of the 0.5% nasal spray so I have upped the strength to 1%. It felt a bit like a mild onion sensation for a few minutes following a single spray per nostril. I'd prefer to take multiple sprays of the lower strength mixture as the pump is not that reliable.
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Looking at that recipe for hand sanitizer, the amount of peroxide used ends up be a very small part "• Hydrogen peroxide 0.125% (v/v)"
I'm using 0.5% and this is 0.125% or about a quarter strength compared to what I'm trialing.
From a spray bottle I can flood my hands with a peroxide solution. To get the same amount of peroxide from the hand sanitizer you'd have to use 20 ml or so per hand.
In the directions, they talk of the flashpoint of the alcohol. https://www.who.int/gpsc/5may/Guide_to_Local_Production.pdf
"Flashpoint- the temperature at which a liquid gives off a vapor that can be ignited. Every liquid that will burn has a flashpoint. The flashpoint of ethanol depends on whether it is pure 100% ethanol (which is very rare) or mixed with water. The more water, the higher the flashpoint."
My understanding is that that it's the alcohol that is the active agent. The H202 is to kill any bacteria that may be present. The glycerol is to make it less harsh for the hands. And the water to increase the flashpoint.
Do what you like, I'll stick to the WHO formula.
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Ran out of the 0.5% nasal spray so I have upped the strength to 1%. It felt a bit like a mild onion sensation for a few minutes following a single spray per nostril. I'd prefer to take multiple sprays of the lower strength mixture as the pump is not that reliable.
Is potentially damaging the little hairs in the noise (that act as a natural filter) a good idea?
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Ran out of the 0.5% nasal spray so I have upped the strength to 1%. It felt a bit like a mild onion sensation for a few minutes following a single spray per nostril. I'd prefer to take multiple sprays of the lower strength mixture as the pump is not that reliable.
Best put in your ears, if you ask me, Rob. Ears, Nose and Throat. Or gargle with it.
And then there is Oscillococcinum.
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Best put in your ears, if you ask me, Rob. Ears, Nose and Throat. Or gargle with it.
And then there is Oscillococcinum.
That sounds like a quack remedy to me... ho-ho! Better stick to peroxide in yer lug 'ole...
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/oscillococcinum#what-it-is (https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/oscillococcinum#what-it-is)
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Best put in your ears, if you ask me, Rob. Ears, Nose and Throat. Or gargle with it.
And then there is Oscillococcinum.
I haven't heard anything about contamination via the ears. AFAIK, it's EYES, nose and mouth.
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I haven't heard anything about contamination via the ears. AFAIK, it's EYES, nose and mouth.
Apparently the virus can only travel through the air is propelled by coughing or sneezing. So if someone coughs or sneezes near you when out and about, run like hell!
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That sounds like a quack remedy to me... ho-ho! Better stick to peroxide in yer lug 'ole...
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/oscillococcinum#what-it-is (https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/oscillococcinum#what-it-is)
So was The Jewish Chicken Soup. But half of the population of France depends on Homeopathy. Me? I go for whatever suits me.
I never go anywhere near a Doctor.
You won't ever find anyone more Cockney than I am, but do come on. Lug Holes? How frightfully passé.
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I haven't heard anything about contamination via the ears. AFAIK, it's EYES, nose and mouth.
Ears, Nose and Throat.
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Apparently the virus can only travel through the air is propelled by coughing or sneezing. So if someone coughs or sneezes near you when out and about, run like hell!
Too Late. ha Ha.
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This seems to be excellent advice.
COVID19 UPDATE.
THIS IS VITAL PROTECTION ADVICE.
.MP3 FORMAT.
https://t.co/wjU3N3FzFq
Stay safe everyone & best wishes to all.
Roy & Linda
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COVID19 UPDATE.
Seems excellent advice.
THIS IS VITAL PROTECTION ADVICE.
.MP3 FORMAT.
https://t.co/wjU3N3FzFq
Stay safe everyone & best wishes to all.
Roy & Linda
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COVID19 UPDATE.
Seems excellent advice.
THIS IS VITAL PROTECTION ADVICE.
.MP3 FORMAT.
https://t.co/wjU3N3FzFq
There is no Stay Safe. You can only do as you are told.
I stay At Home. My son has to work. I hope that he doesn't give this Virus to me.
There is no Fail Safe with this one. Some of us will live, and some of us will die. And No. I am not hysterical about this.
I will die, or not, as the case may be.
But this is the closest I have ever come to dying.
Okay. Not having it.
Stay safe everyone & best wishes to all.
Roy & Linda
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Ears, Nose and Throat.
Where did you get ears from?
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My understanding is that that it's the alcohol that is the active agent. The H202 is to kill any bacteria that may be present. The glycerol is to make it less harsh for the hands. And the water to increase the flashpoint.
Do what you like, I'll stick to the WHO formula.
Yes use that WHO stuff on your hands but you aren't going to put that WHO stuff up your nose, are you!
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This seems to be excellent advice.
COVID19 UPDATE.
THIS IS VITAL PROTECTION ADVICE.
.MP3 FORMAT.
https://t.co/wjU3N3FzFq
Stay safe everyone & best wishes to all.
Roy & Linda
Thanks. It's been doing the rounds for a while. Seems to be sound advice, although the attributed original source seems to vary.
I can't find any context to this: is it for someone living with someone who already has reduced immunity? Or just for the general public?
If people out partying / picnicking / meeting up in groups could just accept to do so via social media instead for a while... Until the general public takes this seriously (and it can take time to get people used to the idea that - for a while) life is simply not going to be how we've known it. And don't think that this just applies to your older relatives or friends.
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Where did you get ears from?
You mean that you didn't know that Ears. Nose and Throat are connected?
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Yes use that WHO stuff on your hands but you aren't going to put that WHO stuff up your nose, are you!
I haven't read anything reliable about squirting anything in any orifice.
What I have read is to keep a safe distance from others (opinions vary from 1m - 2 m); wash your hands (or disinfect them otherwise), think about what you have touched that could transfer to your home, and DON'T touch your eyes, nose or mouth unless you have sterilised your hands. And that's tough.
Become more conscious of WASHING (properly) before. you touch your face - itchy nose, rubbing an eye, handling food...
Clean around you:
- steering-wheel if you drive
- anything you may have touched while outside (door handles, handrails, lift buttons, taps, cash, cash machines, in-store debit card purchases... Think about everything you would normally touch in a normal day. If can't wash your hands with soap (as most of us can't when out), then alcohol-based gel is a substitute.
I'm trying to drum this into others, but I've noticed that I haven't integrated some things that I should do, either.
I'll make a list of a few things that I should have done, but only thought about later, in case it rings bells with others.
It's a bit like scams, we all know about some and tend to think that others were mugs... until a new scam comes along and we get taken in. Then all we can do is to warn others.
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I haven't read anything reliable about squirting anything in any orifice.
What I have read is to keep a safe distance from others (opinions vary from 1m - 2 m); wash your hands (or disinfect them otherwise), think about what you have touched that could transfer to your home, and DON'T touch your eyes, nose or mouth unless you have sterilised your hands. And that's tough.
Become more conscious of WASHING (properly) before. you touch your face - itchy nose, rubbing an eye, handling food...
Clean around you:
- steering-wheel if you drive
- anything you may have touched while outside (door handles, handrails, lift buttons, taps, cash, cash machines, in-store debit card purchases... Think about everything you would normally touch in a normal day. If can't wash your hands with soap (as most of us can't when out), then alcohol-based gel is a substitute.
I'm trying to drum this into others, but I've noticed that I haven't integrated some things that I should do, either.
I'll make a list of a few things that I should have done, but only thought about later, in case it rings bells with others.
It's a bit like scams, we all know about some and tend to think that others were mugs... until a new scam comes along and we get taken in. Then all we can do is to warn others.
Look this is why I'm telling you about it. No one has used an intranasal peroxide spray before (even though plenty have used a peroxide nasal flush to treat sinus infections). It is new and I thought of it and I'm trying it out and so far it has improved my breathing at night. My nasal passages are clearer than they have been for years.
IMO Having a layer of peroxide on the nasal surfaces will help to deal with any virus that lands on it.
It isn't doing any harm. I'm hoping someone else tries it out. OK don't forget about the hand washing and not putting your fingers in your mouth, social distancing, and self-isolation in mild cases.
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as I posted on another thread:
"What I have been trying is using a 0.5% Hydrogen Peroxide solution intranasally at least 2 pumps per nostril. There hasn't been any burning or ill effects from this strength.
0.5% is a 1/6 strength of the commonly retailed 3% solution. I have tried hourly sprays or 4 sprays before and after going out into the community.
I can wash my hands and using this I can wash my nasal passages. Best of luck."
Does anyone have any comments to make about this? My son tried a 1% spray and found it slightly burning. So please don't use full strength (3%) or if you do be careful.
do you know what the half life is of H2O2 afaiaa its quite unstable...we use 6% to whiten teeth.
carbamine peroxide may be more stable and is a third of the strength of hydrogen peroxide. Problem is its not protecting eyes or mouth which are other portals of virus entry
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Look this is why I'm telling you about it. No one has used an intranasal peroxide spray before (even though plenty have used a peroxide nasal flush to treat sinus infections). It is new and I thought of it and I'm trying it out and so far it has improved my breathing at night. My nasal passages are clearer than they have been for years.
IMO Having a layer of peroxide on the nasal surfaces will help to deal with any virus that lands on it.
It isn't doing any harm. I'm hoping someone else tries it out. OK don't forget about the hand washing and not putting your fingers in your mouth, social distancing, and self-isolation in mild cases.
Try not to worry about it Rob. Most of my like are half daft. And the likes of me don't die.
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Look this is why I'm telling you about it. No one has used an intranasal peroxide spray before (even though plenty have used a peroxide nasal flush to treat sinus infections). It is new and I thought of it and I'm trying it out and so far it has improved my breathing at night. My nasal passages are clearer than they have been for years.
IMO Having a layer of peroxide on the nasal surfaces will help to deal with any virus that lands on it.
It isn't doing any harm. I'm hoping someone else tries it out. OK don't forget about the hand washing and not putting your fingers in your mouth, social distancing, and self-isolation in mild cases.
OK. I'm just trying to share info from the WHO (World Health Organization) and other sources that seem well-informed.
If you find that cleansing your nostrils with... whatever, is effective for you, no probs.
Not sure how that would work to combat this particular virus, however.
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do you know what the half life is of H2O2 afaiaa its quite unstable...we use 6% to whiten teeth.
carbamine peroxide may be more stable and is a third of the strength of hydrogen peroxide. Problem is its not protecting eyes or mouth which are other portals of virus entry
I really don't know, but from my point of view in a closed container, it should not deteriorate.
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OK. I'm just trying to share info from the WHO (World Health Organization) and other sources that seem well-informed.
If you find that cleansing your nostrils with... whatever, is effective for you, no probs.
Not sure how that would work to combat this particular virus, however.
I'd love to know too. Obviously, if there was enough interest in it we could run a trial, 1000 using it and 1000 not using it (blind test). That would be interesting, wouldn't it?
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I've heard of some highly dangerous "tips" doing the rounds. Not sure I even want to mention them in case one of you (or any casual reader) decides it's "worth a try".
In the meantime, scrub your hands, and don't touch your face until you have.
No getting hair out of your eyes,
no rubbing them,
no scratching an itchy nose, and
no popping anything in your mouth (including ciggies) if you haven't just cleaned your hands.
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I've heard of some highly dangerous "tips" doing the rounds. Not sure I even want to mention them in case one of you (or any casual reader) decides it's "worth a try".
In the meantime, scrub your hands, and don't touch your face until you have.
No getting hair out of your eyes,
no rubbing them,
no scratching an itchy nose, and
no popping anything in your mouth (including ciggies) if you haven't just cleaned your hands.
I'm always having my hands near my mouth. I'm being more aware of it. Hope I can change my behaviour in time.
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I really don't know, but from my point of view in a closed container, it should not deteriorate.
but once you sprayot up ypur nose it starts to deteriorate
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but once you spray it up your nose it starts to deteriorate
Exactly. There are a lot of questions that could be asked. How many molecules of H2O2 are needed to inactivate a virus particle?
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Exactly. There are a lot of questions that could be asked. How many molecules of H2O2 are needed to inactivate a virus particle?
Any would do as far as I can see. Any would be better than none. I was only ever into putting this stuff in my ears anyway.
I have now got an headache. Probably due to the amount of alcohol that I have drunk in the depths of my anxiety this evening.. So let's not get too silly about this.
Yes, I am scared and at my age I could die soon. Sheesh, I have never seen death so looming. This has never happened to me before.
It is a Plague of sorts that could well kill me. It is not good enough to say that I am not having it. And I dare not risk possible immunity.
I can only stay away from other people. But even that has it's limitations. If I survive for the next six weeks, which I will try to do, then I will still be at risk.
But for now it is the only thing to do.
PS. I have asked my son to come On Forum and let you all know if I die.. But for God's sake please let's not have a Wake if I do.
Just know that I am taking this very seriously and want you all to do the same.
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Any would do as far as I can see. Any would be better than none. I was only ever into putting this stuff in my ears anyway.
I have now got an headache. Probably due to the amount of alcohol that I have drunk in the depths of my anxiety this evening.. So let's not get too silly about this.
Yes, I am scared and at my age I could die soon. Sheesh, I have never seen death so looming. This has never happened to me before.
It is a Plague of sorts that could well kill me. It is not good enough to say that I am not having it. And I dare not risk possible immunity.
I can only stay away from other people. But even that has it's limitations. If I survive for the next six weeks, which I will try to do, then I will still be at risk.
But for now it is the only thing to do.
PS. I have asked my son to come On Forum and let you all know if I die.. But for God's sake please let's not have a Wake if I do.
Just know that I am taking this very seriously and want you all to do the same.
Do you have any peroxide left? I'd say use it every hour. Ears and nose.
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Do you have any peroxide left? I'd say use it every hour. Ears and nose.
H202 is anti-bacterial (with possibly a small effect on viruses). Do what you like, but try to obtain rubbing alcohol.
Welcome to the lockdown. You get used it after a while.
Time for a thought for all those displaced by civil unrest, wars, or epidemics. They've had to cope in far more perilous conditions than the newly-lockeddown elsewhere.
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H202 is anti-bacterial (with possibly a small effect on viruses). Do what you like, but try to obtain rubbing alcohol.
Welcome to the lockdown. You get used it after a while.
Time for a thought for all those displaced by civil unrest, wars, or epidemics. They've had to cope in far more perilous conditions than the newly-lockeddown elsewhere.
I'd already posted the study showing H2O2 was effective in killing Coronaviruses. Just saw videos as to what is happening in Indonesia, 300 million people and no control measures at all.
"[Virus inactivation by hydrogen peroxide].
[Article in Russian]
Mentel' R, Shirrmakher R, Kevich A, Dreĭzin RS, Shmidt I.
Abstract
The effect of H2O2 on adenovirus types 3 and 6, adenoassociated virus type 4, rhinoviruses 1A, 1B, and type 7, myxoviruses, influenza A and B, respiratory syncytial virus, strain Long, and coronavirus strain 229E was studied in vitro, using different H2O2 concentration and timec of exposure. H2O2 in a 3 percent concentration inactivated all the viruses under study within 1--30 min. Coronavirus and influenza viruses were found to be most sensitive. Reoviruses, adenoviruses and adenoassociated virus were relatively stable. H2O2 is a convenient means for virus inactivation."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/203115
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in this article, they talk about using a high 6% solution. NOTE: I would not suggest spraying a strong solution in one's nostrils.
https://www.cdc.gov/infectioncontrol/guidelines/disinfection/disinfection-methods/chemical.html
"Hydrogen Peroxide
Overview.
The literature contains several accounts of the properties, germicidal effectiveness, and potential uses for stabilized hydrogen peroxide in the health-care setting. Published reports ascribe good germicidal activity to hydrogen peroxide and attest to its bactericidal, virucidal, sporicidal, and fungicidal properties 653-655. (Tables 4 and 5) The FDA website lists cleared liquid chemical sterilants and high-level disinfectants containing hydrogen peroxide and their cleared contact conditions.
Top of Page
Mode of Action.
Hydrogen peroxide works by producing destructive hydroxyl free radicals that can attack membrane lipids, DNA, and other essential cell components. Catalase, produced by aerobic organisms and facultative anaerobes that possess cytochrome systems, can protect cells from metabolically produced hydrogen peroxide by degrading hydrogen peroxide to water and oxygen. This defense is overwhelmed by the concentrations used for disinfection 653, 654.
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Microbicidal Activity.
Hydrogen peroxide is active against a wide range of microorganisms, including bacteria, yeasts, fungi, viruses, and spores 78, 654. A 0.5% accelerated hydrogen peroxide demonstrated bactericidal and virucidal activity in 1 minute and mycobactericidal and fungicidal activity in 5 minutes 656. Bactericidal effectiveness and stability of hydrogen peroxide in urine has been demonstrated against a variety of health-care–associated pathogens; organisms with high cellular catalase activity (e.g., S. aureus, S. marcescens, and Proteus mirabilis) required 30–60 minutes of exposure to 0.6% hydrogen peroxide for a 108 reduction in cell counts, whereas organisms with lower catalase activity (e.g., E. coli, Streptococcus species, and Pseudomonas species) required only 15 minutes’ exposure 657. In an investigation of 3%, 10%, and 15% hydrogen peroxide for reducing spacecraft bacterial populations, a complete kill of 106 spores (i.e., Bacillus species) occurred with a 10% concentration and a 60-minute exposure time. A 3% concentration for 150 minutes killed 106 spores in six of seven exposure trials 658. A 10% hydrogen peroxide solution resulted in a 103 decrease in B. atrophaeus spores, and a ≥105 decrease when tested against 13 other pathogens in 30 minutes at 20°C 659, 660. A 3.0% hydrogen peroxide solution was ineffective against VRE after 3 and 10 minutes exposure times 661 and caused only a 2-log10 reduction in the number of Acanthamoeba cysts in approximately 2 hours 662. A 7% stabilized hydrogen peroxide proved to be sporicidal (6 hours of exposure), mycobactericidal (20 minutes), fungicidal (5 minutes) at full strength, virucidal (5 minutes) and bactericidal (3 minutes) at a 1:16 dilution when a quantitative carrier test was used 655. The 7% solution of hydrogen peroxide, tested after 14 days of stress (in the form of germ-loaded carriers and respiratory therapy equipment), was sporicidal (>7 log10 reduction in 6 hours), mycobactericidal (>6.5 log10 reduction in 25 minutes), fungicidal (>5 log10 reduction in 20 minutes), bactericidal (>6 log10 reduction in 5 minutes) and virucidal (5 log10 reduction in 5 minutes) 663. Synergistic sporicidal effects were observed when spores were exposed to a combination of hydrogen peroxide (5.9%–23.6%) and peracetic acid 664. Other studies demonstrated the antiviral activity of hydrogen peroxide against rhinovirus 665. The time required for inactivating three serotypes of rhinovirus using a 3% hydrogen peroxide solution was 6–8 minutes; this time increased with decreasing concentrations (18-20 minutes at 1.5%, 50–60 minutes at 0.75%).
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Concentrations of hydrogen peroxide from 6% to 25% show promise as chemical sterilants. The product marketed as a sterilant is a premixed, ready-to-use chemical that contains 7.5% hydrogen peroxide and 0.85% phosphoric acid (to maintain a low pH) 69. The mycobactericidal activity of 7.5% hydrogen peroxide has been corroborated in a study showing the inactivation of >105 multidrug-resistant M. tuberculosis after a 10-minute exposure 666. Thirty minutes were required for >99.9% inactivation of poliovirus and HAV 667. Three percent and 6% hydrogen peroxide were unable to inactivate HAV in 1 minute in a carrier test 58. When the effectiveness of 7.5% hydrogen peroxide at 10 minutes was compared with 2% alkaline glutaraldehyde at 20 minutes in manual disinfection of endoscopes, no significant difference in germicidal activity was observed 668. ). No complaints were received from the nursing or medical staff regarding odor or toxicity. In one study, 6% hydrogen peroxide (unused product was 7.5%) was more effective in the high-level disinfection of flexible endoscopes than was the 2% glutaraldehyde solution 456. A new, rapid-acting 13.4% hydrogen peroxide formulation (that is not yet FDA-cleared) has demonstrated sporicidal, mycobactericidal, fungicidal, and virucidal efficacy. Manufacturer data demonstrate that this solution sterilizes in 30 minutes and provides high-level disinfection in 5 minutes669. This product has not been used long enough to evaluate material compatibility to endoscopes and other semicritical devices, and further assessment by instrument manufacturers is needed.
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Under normal conditions, hydrogen peroxide is extremely stable when properly stored (e.g., in dark containers). The decomposition or loss of potency in small containers is less than 2% per year at ambient temperatures 670."
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Peroxide is used to deactivate viruses in the manufacture of vaccines. If you are in a situation where you may have inhaled Coronavirus, deactivation of those virus particles would, IMO, be a good thing. If the peroxide left the virus particles intact enough to still allow the body to start an immune response that would be even better.
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Rob, that seems to be from... 1977.
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Rob, that seems to be from... 1977.
OK, but should that make any difference.
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Do you have any peroxide left? I'd say use it every hour. Ears and nose.
Ha Ha. I forgot to look. Hang on a minute.
Yep, I've got a 250ml bottle of 3% which is nearly full. I have just put some in each ear, neat I will do the same tomorrow.
Not sure about my nose. My nose is permanently blocked so hopefully nothing much will get in.
My ears haven't been blocked since I started using it.
I am trying desperately hard to find this all amusing. Failing miserably. My anxiety levels have seriously ramped up.
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Ha Ha. I forgot to look. Hang on a minute.
Yep, I've got a 250ml bottle of 3% which is nearly full. I have just put some in each ear, neat I will do the same tomorrow.
Not sure about my nose. My nose is permanently blocked so hopefully nothing much will get in.
My ears haven't been blocked since I started using it.
I am trying desperately hard to find this all amusing. Failing miserably. My anxiety levels have seriously ramped up.
You've got me worried now. You must try and breathe through your nostrils at all times. For me, the peroxide into my nasal passages has really helped me to allow to breathe through them. Even at night, I'm waking up in the morning still nasal breathing.
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I have presented the peroxide prevention method to the Ministry of Health yesterday. Whether I get a reply is to be seen (but it is Saturday here).
In NZ we have a lockdown where everyone is confined to their homes except for exercise, groceries and medicines.
There are also industries and organizations considered "essential" and the people going to work are worried about catching the disease from each other.
This morning I'm thinking the workforce in these essential industries would be the ideal place to try out the hydrogen peroxide trials.
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You've got me worried now. You must try and breathe through your nostrils at all times. For me, the peroxide into my nasal passages has really helped me to allow to breathe through them. Even at night, I'm waking up in the morning still nasal breathing.
It will be even easier when your nose falls off.
8((()*/
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It will be even easier when your nose falls off.
8((()*/
But how will he smell?
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But how will he smell?
Bloody awful.
B’dum tish!
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It will be even easier when your nose falls off.
8((()*/
Is that what happened to your pugs?
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Bloody awful.
B’dum tish!
Very acceptable to pugs.
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Is that what happened to your pugs?
Oh wow! Says the vet!
Anyhoo, I'm on Actemra, so I might be having the last laugh. AND get to keep my nose!
?>)()<
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Oh wow! Says the vet!
Anyhoo, I'm on Actemra, so I might be having the last laugh. AND get to keep my nose!
?>)()<
Well I do hope so. For I love your humour. How come you have been prescribed Actemra?
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Well I do hope so. For I love your humour. How come you have been prescribed Actemra?
Rheumatoid arthritis. I've been on it for a few years, just one injection into my stomach every week. It works really well (with steroids) but it won't work forever, apparently. And I think I've tried everything else. Actually, I wonder if I've already had Corona, I had a cough like a carthorse a couple of months ago, and it's left me knackered and with painful lungs.
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Night, Bob.
Oh, by the way......Burke did it!!
8((()*/
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Rheumatoid arthritis. I've been on it for a few years, just one injection into my stomach every week. It works really well (with steroids) but it won't work forever, apparently. And I think I've tried everything else. Actually, I wonder if I've already had Corona, I had a cough like a carthorse a couple of months ago, and it's left me knackered and with painful lungs.
Did you have a Chinese friend who had recently returned from Hubei province? That was the case with me, a friend returned from China soon after Christmas and got ill and I think I picked it up around the time the Chinese admitted publicly they had the disease. It seemed to be a very drawn out cold in my case. No tests were ever run.
I was starting to feel right again but now we are in a 4-week lockdown not really able to do anything.
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Did you have a Chinese friend who had recently returned from Hubei province? That was the case with me, a friend returned from China soon after Christmas and got ill and I think I picked it up around the time the Chinese admitted publicly they had the disease. It seemed to be a very drawn out cold in my case. No tests were ever run.
I was starting to feel right again but now we are in a 4-week lockdown not really able to do anything.
Whatever it was, it came from Manchester. Ironically, because of the Actemra I cop for everything, especially from my bacteria-factory grandchildren, so I thought it was just a bad cold (which it probably was) and cracked on as normal. (And took it to Crufts 8(8-)) ).
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Puglove,
Can you identify the accent(s)?
https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/18/british-tourists-benidorm-ignore-coronavirus-lockdown-measures-12415650/
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Sound like gormless, brain-dead Greater Mancunians to me... not puglove territory.
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Puglove,
Can you identify the accent(s)?
https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/18/british-tourists-benidorm-ignore-coronavirus-lockdown-measures-12415650/
I really fancy the fat bloke who's written on his tits.
8**8:/:
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I really fancy the fat bloke who's written on his tits.
8**8:/:
You're already a frontline guinea pig without realising it...
https://www.pmlive.com/pharma_news/fda_approves_roches_actemra_covid-19_trial_1329887 (https://www.pmlive.com/pharma_news/fda_approves_roches_actemra_covid-19_trial_1329887)
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You're already a frontline guinea pig without realising it...
https://www.pmlive.com/pharma_news/fda_approves_roches_actemra_covid-19_trial_1329887 (https://www.pmlive.com/pharma_news/fda_approves_roches_actemra_covid-19_trial_1329887)
Guinea pug, son, guinea pug.
Catch you later! &^&*%
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Back OT
I'll be adding links as I find them.
UK
Updates on tests / positivity rates / deaths
https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk
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A cartoonish but no-nonsense Covid19 explanation... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtN-goy9VOY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtN-goy9VOY)
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A cartoonish but no-nonsense Covid19 explanation... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtN-goy9VOY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtN-goy9VOY)
Interesting. I'm a bit of a "healthy eating nut". Haven't taken the enzymes, but have been feeding Mrwah and I with probiotics for years, as well as home cooking nearly all the time, and balancing the proteins, essential fats, organic fruit and veg, etc. Wonder if it will pay off---------.
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A cartoonish but no-nonsense Covid19 explanation... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtN-goy9VOY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtN-goy9VOY)
It confirms what I posted a week ago. its necessary for some to become infected...its necessary for the disease to spread...but at a rate the NHS can cope. This will build herd immunity. If we isolate to the extent immunity doesnt build up then we will never be able to stop isolation. I think Boris has it just about right at the moment. As the deaths decline we can start to come out of our bunkers.
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The way my cat sneezed over me some weeks back makes me think cats could become infected as well.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-sars/china-scientists-say-sars-civet-cat-link-proved-idUSPEK23793120061123
In the movie clips of the wet markets I saw what looked like cats, or were they civet cats which they say aren't related to the domestic cat.
https://www.dailyexaminer.com.au/news/chinas-wet-markets-should-be-banned/3983469/ at 1:14 what type of animal is that, is it a kitten? Its nose doesn't look long enough to be a civet cat. What does the forum think?
I think it might be a leopard cat https://cdn1.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/images/methode/2018/04/02/4de7de0a-31a3-11e8-9019-a420e6317de0_1280x720_125759.JPG?itok=p8HHu70V
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I have mainly stuck to a sensible diet because I didn't have enough income to do otherwise. Will this help? God knows, it's too blimmin late now.
The thing that interests me at the moment is why are people obeying the rules? Most of them, including me don't want to catch it, but don't much care if they give it to someone else, although the result will be the same in the end.
France seems to be dealing with this quite sensibly, for whatever reason. No one is misbehaving around here.
I am on Lockdown because I am 80 years old. Great. Someone else is doing my shopping. My son, actually. But he is still doing his gardening work. But then most of his clients are locked up in England. And those who are here, French, obviously, are very mindful. They are also old and they don't want it either.
This is essential work because Grass Grows at an alarming rate at this time of year. It simply can't be left.
The Food Bank continues to operate, but by appointment these days, so no hanging about. But how very brave they all are. What a lovely place this is.
Paris? I have no idea.
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I have mainly stuck to a sensible diet because I didn't have enough income to do otherwise. Will this help? God knows, it's too blimmin late now.
The thing that interests me at the moment is why are people obeying the rules? Most of them, including me don't want to catch it, but don't much care if they give it to someone else, although the result will be the same in the end.
France seems to be dealing with this quite sensibly, for whatever reason. No one is misbehaving around here.
I am on Lockdown because I am 80 years old. Great. Someone else is doing my shopping. My son, actually. But he is still doing his gardening work. But then most of his clients are locked up in England. And those who are here, French, obviously, are very mindful. They are also old and they don't want it either.
This is essential work because Grass Grows at an alarming rate at this time of year. It simply can't be left.
The Food Bank continues to operate, but by appointment these days, so no hanging about. But how very brave they all are. What a lovely place this is.
Paris? I have no idea.
what will help is taht you are, by the sounds of it, in a remote area. I doubt and hope you don't catch it but if you do what will not bode well is a history of smoking.
i think people are complying with isolation because the have enough sense to understand it makes sense.when I go shopping it seems just about everyone understands and sticks to the 2 metre rule...that will help save lives. unfortunately in large cities...public transport...its impossible to enforce
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The way my cat sneezed over me some weeks back makes me think cats could become infected as well.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-sars/china-scientists-say-sars-civet-cat-link-proved-idUSPEK23793120061123
In the movie clips of the wet markets I saw what looked like cats, or were they civet cats which they say aren't related to the domestic cat.
https://www.dailyexaminer.com.au/news/chinas-wet-markets-should-be-banned/3983469/ at 1:14 what type of animal is that, is it a kitten? Its nose doesn't look long enough to be a civet cat. What does the forum think?
I think it might be a leopard cat https://cdn1.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/images/methode/2018/04/02/4de7de0a-31a3-11e8-9019-a420e6317de0_1280x720_125759.JPG?itok=p8HHu70V
Rob, so far I've read of one pet cat being infected by its human companion - not the other way round.
Do try to avoid sneezing on yours. ;)
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Rob, so far I've read of one pet cat being infected by its human companion - not the other way round.
Do try to avoid sneezing on yours. ;)
How many cats are being tested?
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No idea. If it were a problem I would have thought we'd have heard about it by now.
Animal shelters have reported a surge in abandoned dogs over a report that a dog's snout tested positive.
For the moment, unless evidence emerges that a) pet dogs/cats carry the virus and b) transmit it to humans, I think the world has enough to worry about.
That said, it might be a good idea to avoid letting pets lick anyone's face as they could presumably be indirect vectors if they licked the face of an infected person and then licked someone else.
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My dog is the least likely article to get It. He has been on lock down for nearly two years now. he isn't safe out on his own.
But apparently it has been known to transmit. I have no idea where I read that.
I shall tell my son not to let the dog lick his face because he could give it to the horrible little swine. Not sure if I mean the dog or my son. Either would do.
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@)(++(*
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No idea. If it were a problem I would have thought we'd have heard about it by now.
Animal shelters have reported a surge in abandoned dogs over a report that a dog's snout tested positive.
For the moment, unless evidence emerges that a) pet dogs/cats carry the virus and b) transmit it to humans, I think the world has enough to worry about.
That said, it might be a good idea to avoid letting pets lick anyone's face as they could presumably be indirect vectors if they licked the face of an infected person and then licked someone else.
There was a report some weeks ago about a dog showing low levels of the virus. The dog subsequently died, but , AFAIK, the death wasn't related to coronavirus. I believe the dog was showing negative by then.
Haven't heard anything else suggesting that dogs and cats can contract the virus, and since we have a dog I've been looking out for such info!
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Rob, so far I've read of one pet cat being infected by its human companion - not the other way round.
Do try to avoid sneezing on yours. ;)
I agree my cat caught it off me but when she sneezed over my face the infection went into my eyes. I've had conjunctivitis for 10 days now.
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I agree my cat caught it off me but when she sneezed over my face the infection went into my eyes. I've had conjunctivitis for 10 days now.
Ok, not fun. Check with your GP then.
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what will help is taht you are, by the sounds of it, in a remote area. I doubt and hope you don't catch it but if you do what will not bode well is a history of smoking.
i think people are complying with isolation because the have enough sense to understand it makes sense.when I go shopping it seems just about everyone understands and sticks to the 2 metre rule...that will help save lives. unfortunately in large cities...public transport...its impossible to enforce
I did write a reply to your Comment, and then lost it. And couldn't be bothered to write it again.
Thank you for your concern. I am a complete and utter emotional wreck who might well have died for the lack of a fag to ten.
I did survive a very nasty dose of Tuberculosis and still couldn't stop smoking. So I am probably beyond redemption.
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I did write a reply to your Comment, and then lost it. And couldn't be bothered to write it again.
Thank you for your concern. I am a complete and utter emotional wreck who might well have died for the lack of a fag to ten.
I did survive a very nasty dose of Tuberculosis and still couldn't stop smoking. So I am probably beyond redemption.
Please show your son how to access your account in the case of your demise. I think I've had it and got through it, although taking a couple of months to recover near full health. But I don't smoke and I have been living well on a small rural property, self-isolated by nature of the property.
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How's everyone doing? Anyone isolated and need anything? Can anyone help anyone else, is it even possible?
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How's everyone doing? Anyone isolated and need anything? Can anyone help anyone else, is it even possible?
I need some popcorn kernels and I’m running low on smoked salmon and cat food, if you wouldn’t mind...?
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I need some popcorn kernels and I’m running low on smoked salmon and cat food, if you wouldn’t mind...?
Rob's offered to nip out. I'll add this to his list.
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Rob's offered to nip out. I'll add this to his list.
Get the army to deliver.
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How are you coping in Lockdown Down-Under Land, Rob?
From afar, it seems as if you have a responsible PM who's taken action at a sensible time.
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How are you coping in Lockdown Down-Under Land, Rob?
From afar, it seems as if you have a responsible PM who's taken action at a sensible time.
Would that be anything to do with the fact that the Prime Minister is a woman 😊😊
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How are you coping in Lockdown Down-Under Land, Rob?
From afar, it seems as if you have a responsible PM who's taken action at a sensible time.
Or could it be that NZ is in the southern hemisphere and is therefore warmer at this time of year. it may be as simple as that. There is not one country in the southern hemisphere that has a new daily case rate over 1000.... that must be significant...have a look at the world distribution map
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How are you coping in Lockdown Down-Under Land, Rob?
From afar, it seems as if you have a responsible PM who's taken action at a sensible time.
It will be interesting this week, as they are now testing the population and not just those who have entered the country recently, they are finally looking for community transmission.
If there has been community transmission, so far it has been mild disease as there were no local transmission cases needing ventilation, and only one death so far. It looks as if we might eliminate the virus! Hard to believe but it might be possible.
So the population will be vulnerable to the virus if it is brought in again. But let's just wait a few more days.
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Or could it be that NZ is in the southern hemisphere and is, therefore, warmer at this time of year? it may be as simple as that. There is not one country in the southern hemisphere that has a new daily case rate over 1000.... that must be significant...have a look at the world distribution map
Let's hope it has been spreading slowly mildly through the summer and autumn periods. It is starting to get colder but only a little.
The Prime Minister is taking advice from the Ministry of Health. She must be looking after herself as she hasn't had a trace of it so far. I've been a fan of Jacinda ever since she became the leader of the Labour team. prior to the last election.
Funny thing is that the Australians nominate her in surveys as their preferred Prime Minister.
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New Zealand has doubled the capacity to do testing, but the numbers of infected persons are not going up at an exponential rate. So far it seems basically steady at about 80 new confirmed cases per day.
There are also many people who are recovering from the disease, and I'm sure this number is not being removed from the cases, so the number of active cases will be less than the "covid cases" number.
I can't help but think we are going to be one of the lucky countries.
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I hope so, Rob.
The problem with even 80-ish new cases per day is how many others could each have contaminated?
NZ seems to be at the stage where there is still time to test and trace contacts, if the system moves quickly.
Living in lockdown isn't fun, but it's better than being stuck in a hospital corridor waiting for help when you can barely breathe.
It's no time to feel complacent. Every hour matters now, and everyone can play their part in avoiding spreading it further.
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I hope so, Rob.
The problem with even 80-ish new cases per day is how many others could each have contaminated?
NZ seems to be at the stage where there is still time to test and trace contacts, if the system moves quickly.
Living in lockdown isn't fun, but it's better than being stuck in a hospital corridor waiting for help when you can barely breathe.
It's no time to feel complacent. Every hour matters now, and everyone can play their part in avoiding spreading it further.
Most of these new cases were in people already in quarantine. Everyone arriving from overseas (down to something like just 300 per day) has to self-isolate for 14 days. They are monitored on arrival and any showing symptoms are hospitalized and tested.
Tracebacks are done on anyone who had close contact with an infected person.
only about 1% can't be traced back to a person who had travelled overseas.
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Ok. Sounds like NZ is on top of it. All the best.
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I have written to the Director-General of Health regarding the use of intranasal sprays of Hydrogen Peroxide and how this prevention method could be tested for efficacy, using the current population of known cases.
Another thought that has come up was the use of a sub-minimal infective dose of the virus to cause a subclinical infection that might still produce an immune response.
I was encouraged to raise this issue as it appears to be something UK medics are thinking about as expressed in the Dr. Hope's Sick Notes VLOG. https://youtu.be/oX1nqrqcJcQ
I have found these VLOGs so interesting that I recommend listening to that particular channel.
Ok. Sounds like NZ is on top of it. All the best.
It could be we shutdown all businesses a bit early and if we relax we could get another wave of infection later, but it seems my concern was wrong.
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My thought today would be to have COVID 19 Immunity Tours where one could organize a group of tourists to travel to New Zealand and remain in the tour group during a phase where the virus is deliberately inoculated in such a way to only cause asymptomatic disease and yet the client still generates the full antibody response.
So the holiday is enjoyed and immunity is gained during the same 3 week period (You'd need 3 weeks to make sure no one was ill or shedding the virus after the holiday). The costs of testing for the COVID 19 virus and antibodies are included in the package tour fee.
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My thought today would be to have COVID 19 Immunity Tours where one could organize a group of tourists to travel to New Zealand and remain in the tour group during a phase where the virus is deliberately inoculated in such a way to only cause asymptomatic disease and yet the client still generates the full antibody response.
So the holiday is enjoyed and immunity is gained during the same 3 week period (You'd need 3 weeks to make sure no one was ill or shedding the virus after the holiday). The costs of testing for the COVID 19 virus and antibodies are included in the package tour fee.
Dear Rob, are you for real?
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I thought this might be the case:
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-3d-model-reveals-how-covid-19-can-spread-in-supermarket-11971373
This might also account for why densely populated places with lots of tall buildings are hit hard eg London and NY.
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I thought this might be the case:
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-3d-model-reveals-how-covid-19-can-spread-in-supermarket-11971373
This might also account for why densely populated places with lots of tall buildings are hit hard eg London and NY.
And packed underground's.
Given scientists know the virus is disabled by soap and water, hence all the hand washing, you would think it might be possible to develop something that can be sprayed into environments which is capable of lingering in the atmosphere for a period of time disabling the virus before it enters the respiratory tract. It wouldn't be as effective as immunisation but it might assist.
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And packed underground's.
Given scientists know the virus is disabled by soap and water, hence all the hand washing, you would think it might be possible to develop something that can be sprayed into environments which is capable of lingering in the atmosphere for a period of time disabling the virus before it enters the respiratory tract. It wouldn't be as effective as immunisation but it might assist.
A Belgian supermarket chain has started doing that.
In several other countries, a security agent squirts sanitizer into your hands on the way in, and in some places on the way out as well.
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https://www.imperial.ac.uk/mrc-global-infectious-disease-analysis/covid-19/report-12-global-impact-covid-19/
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Noooooooo, please don't use sky lanterns. 8(8-))
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sky-lanterns-coronavirus-nhs-support-rspca-fire-legal-wildlife-a9466606.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1586968087
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Stay At Home. But do please yourselves. Just don't come anywhere near me.
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Not sure if I missed the SAGE reports, or whether the info has only been uploaded recently...
https://www.gov.uk/government/groups/scientific-advisory-group-for-emergencies-sage-coronavirus-covid-19-response
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A fascinating (and scary) article here
Coronavirus: now for the next challenge — what don’t we know about Covid-19?
Scientists are rushing to get the measure of the virus, but their efforts are likely to be hampered by factors we don’t yet understand
JULIAN OSBALDSTONE
Tony Allen-Mills and
Andrew Gregory
Sunday May 03 2020, 12.01am, The Sunday Times
As the new coronavirus was spreading disease across America in late February, Donald Trump appeared at one of his news briefings with an annotated map of the world. It showed, in his words, that America was “rated No 1 for being prepared” to deal with a pandemic.
The map was based on the GHS Index, a global ranking of national health capabilities. Trump did not mention that the UK, in second place, was the country judged next best-equipped to prevent, detect and respond to a global health threat. In one category of the survey, the UK finished first of the 195 nations studied. That category was “emergency preparedness and response planning”.
The coronavirus has sprung many surprises on the global scientific community, which has been worrying and warning for years about pandemic threats. Not the least of these has been the shattering of assumptions about the world’s vulnerability to pandemic disease.
“One observation that has struck me, and for which I don’t honestly have a good explanation, is the disparity in how Covid-19 is affecting industrialised rich countries versus lower- and middle-income countries,” said Professor Babak Javid, a consultant in infectious diseases at Cambridge University Hospitals and a principal investigator at Tsinghua University’s medical school in Beijing.
“In most pandemic preparedness scenarios, it was always assumed resource-poor settings would be the hardest hit, by orders of magnitude,” added Javid. Yet four months into the new pandemic, bodies are piling up in New York, not Delhi, and in London, not Lagos.
The deadly pattern of a rapid rise of cases experienced from the outset by many industrialised countries has not yet materialised on the Indian sub-continent or in sub-Saharan Africa, where there may be limited testing but there have also been fewer reports of unexplained pneumonia-related deaths.
Is this simply because other countries are “just behind on the trajectory curve”, Javid wondered? Or is there something going on we just have not figured out yet? Something, he suggested, that “may yield clues to genuine differences in disease dynamics that may then be applied elsewhere”.
Donald Rumsfeld, the prickly US secretary of defence at the time of the September 11 attacks, once caused a stir when he summed up the challenge of dealing with invisible threats that cannot be immediately identified or neutralised.
In a 2002 briefing about the elusive weapons of mass destruction supposedly developed by Saddam Hussein of Iraq, Rumsfeld referred to the “known knowns” — the things we know that we know. There are also the “known unknowns” — the things we know we do not know. The toughest category, he concluded, was the “unknown unknowns” — the ones we do not even know exist.
Last week some of Britain’s leading specialists in infectious disease discussed some of the knowns and unknowns of the pandemic, and the threat that unknown unknowns may yet derail what Lawrence Young, professor of molecular oncology at Warwick University, described as a “stupendous” worldwide research effort to understand Covid-19.
How is the virus surprising us?
An improbable new phrase has begun to pop up in medical descriptions of hospitalised patients. Doctors are talking about “happy hypoxia”, an unsettling conjunction of a cheery adjective and a dangerous breathing condition. Hypoxia is the result of oxygen deprivation, a cause of altitude sickness in climbers and a threat to divers who hold their breath too long. The “happy” part refers to a phenomenon observed in coronavirus patients whose oxygen levels plummet without them showing signs of distress.
STN.P4.5.GRAPHIC.03.05.20.RESPONSIVE
By now it is well known that Covid-19 attacks the lungs, and shortness of breath has been regarded as a key symptom of the disease from the start. Hospital staff monitor the levels of oxygen in the bloodstream: in many people, a healthy pair of lungs will produce an oxygen saturation reading of at least 92%.
Anything much below that is a danger sign, as a drop in oxygen supply will threaten the heart, brain and other vital organs. That is why the availability of ventilators and other forms of oxygen delivery became such an urgent issue in treatment of virus patients.
Yet two things have happened in recent weeks. First, evidence is mounting that most patients who decline to the point they need to be put on ventilators suffer grim outcomes. In a new UK study of almost 17,000 patients published last week, only 20% of those requiring mechanical ventilation were discharged; 53% of them died and 27% were still in hospital in mid-April. Those ventilators obviously help some, but seem to trigger fatal organ inflammations in others. How can we tell whether they will help or hurt?
Second, doctors began to notice some patients seemed to be functioning normally with oxygen levels that would typically indicate imminent collapse. One New York medic posted a picture on Twitter of his patient checking her phone while her monitor showed an oxygen saturation reading of 54%, a prime example of happy hypoxia. Should the doctor place such a patient on a ventilator immediately, even if they are not in distress? Or are other, less intrusive forms of oxygen supply a better bet at this stage?
“We don’t know what the most effective respiratory option is,” said Bronwen Connolly, a critical care specialist at Queen’s University Belfast. She told a specialist webinar last week: “There is a real inconsistency in recommendations for non-invasive respiratory support and a real need for high-quality evidence generated from the Covid-19 population.”
Ventilators help some patients but seem to trigger fatal organ inflammations in others
Ventilators help some patients but seem to trigger fatal organ inflammations in others
STUART FRANKLIN
What else don’t we know about the disease?
The answer, in Rumsfeldian terms, is that there are many known unknowns, and very probably some unknown unknowns — but these are still early days. “I have been an HIV researcher for the past 30 years and there are still many things we don’t know about HIV,” noted Professor Sarah Rowland-Jones, an immunologist at Oxford University.
Not the least of the problems confronting scientists is that the virus is described as a respiratory syndrome, but it does not restrict its attacks to the lungs. It has been widely associated with heart, liver and kidney problems, neurological complications and lethal blood-clotting. A US doctor whose otherwise healthy 47-year-old son overcame the virus after a near-fatal visit to intensive care told the Stat news website: “This virus is a combination of Alien, The Day the Earth Stood Still, The Andromeda Strain and Apocalypse Now.”
The NHS recently warned about shortages of dialysis supplies for coronavirus patients who need kidney support. Chinese reports indicated early on that the virus was attacking the heart muscle, causing myocarditis, a condition that can lead to heart attacks or strokes. Some US researchers suspect that Covid-19 affects blood vessels, creating clots or hordes of microclots that cause problems elsewhere. Doctors are still juggling drug combinations to find solutions that help one organ without damaging another.
If that sounds bleakly apocalyptic, the most bewildering unknown of all may be that many people are infected with the virus without suffering so much as a sneeze. Children also mostly seem to shrug off Covid-19 as if it were no worse than hiccups.
Why does it wreak havoc on some people but not others?
One possible answer was proposed last week by Professor Alison Sinclair, a molecular virologist at Sussex University. “I have a burning question,” she said. “Do people who are more severely ill have a variation in their genome [genetic material] that causes an underlying susceptibility? There are examples of other diseases caused by viruses where a small variation in people’s genomes predisposes them to a more severe disease when they are infected.”
By comparing the DNA of patients with severe disease to the DNA of people who were infected but showed no symptoms, “it could identify whether a genetic predisposition for severe Covid-19 exists”, said Sinclair. Protective measures might then be developed.
What is happening to our immune systems?
Another discordant medical phrase that armchair virologists have lately been puzzling over is “cytokine storms”. Cytokines are a group of proteins crucial to the functioning of the immune system. The first responders to viral invasion, they are the body’s equivalent of First World War carrier pigeons, dispatched from the source of infection to warn other parts of the body that the germs — as opposed to the Germans — are coming. The problem detected in numerous severe cases of the coronavirus is that instead of swivelling its defences to confront the invading virus, the immune system blows itself up.
The cytokines appear to provoke a storm of overreactions, causing raging fevers and organ inflammation. Some doctors have found that steroids calm the storms, but steroids have another effect: they can suppress immune responses, leaving virus patients defenceless.
The most urgent of our known unknowns, many scientists agree, is the extent to which exposure to the virus offers a degree of immunity, and how long that immunity might last. The World Health Organisation has warned that no evidence of immunity has yet been found for Covid-19. “I would argue that the key issue is not to discover something new about the virus but to understand the immune response it stimulates,” argued Jonathan Stoye, a virus expert at the Francis Crick Institute in London.
Professor Will Irving, a virologist at Nottingham University, added: “Understanding what constitutes a protective immune response is the most important missing piece of the jigsaw at the moment.”
Sars-CoV-2: a ‘stupendous’ worldwide research effort to understand it is under way
Sars-CoV-2: a ‘stupendous’ worldwide research effort to understand it is under way
NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH/AFP/GETTY
Oxford’s Rowland-Jones concurred: “The really crucial question is whether or not infection leads to protective immunity. All our current effective vaccines operate on a principle that if you don’t succumb to the infection in the first instance, you develop long-term immunity to that pathogen. Measles is a good example.” She concluded: “This is essential knowledge for both vaccine strategies and also control strategies for the coronavirus.”
The early promise shown by British and other vaccine developers, offering hope of a life-saving jab within months, may quickly turn to dust if evidence does not emerge of the immune system’s ability to resist the virus. “There are some who even question whether long-term protective immunity against Sars-CoV-2 is possible,” said Warwick professor Young.
“One particular component of the immune response which is essential to study is the response that occurs on our mucous membranes and that we need to induce to protect from a virus which spreads by infecting cells in our noses and throats.”
He added: “We need a vaccine that will induce this response but we currently know next to nothing about it in the context of Sars-CoV-2.”
Do we know why more men are infected than women?
The gender imbalance first detected in China was attributed to a variety of causes, from men smoking more than women — supposedly leaving them with more fragile lungs — to men congregating in larger groups than women. But the pattern has repeated itself around the globe, most notably in the latest UK research, which found that 60% of the hospitalised patients it studied were men.
“The discrepancy between men and women is still present in countries where the smoking rates are similar between the sexes, so that can’t be the explanation,” said Rowland-Jones. “There hasn’t been such a major sex difference in outcomes for any previous infection as there is for Covid-19.”
Some experts question whether long-term protective immunity against Sars-CoV-2 is possible
Some experts question whether long-term protective immunity against Sars-CoV-2 is possible
ISABEL INFANTES
Possible biological explanations include stronger innate immune responses recorded in women, and differing distribution of the substance ACE2 — angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 — which is found in noses, lungs and other organs. Normally, the enzyme performs tasks such as helping to keep blood pressure stable, but it has also been identified as the doorway through which the virus infiltrates cells and begins to replicate itself, spreading through the body. Time and research may provide answers, but “it’s difficult to do research into the basic biology and immunology of the virus when confronted with the clinical problems [of patients] that need immediate management”, noted Young.
Similar restraints apply to studies of children, with unknown factors including why they appear to suffer mainly mild symptoms. This may be related to the distribution of ACE2 receptors in younger humans, but equally important is to what extent they are infectious. “We need to know if younger people . . . can pass the virus to others to predict what the impact will be of [reopening] crowded environments, including nurseries and schools,” said Sussex University’s Sinclair.
As for Rumsfeld’s unknown unknowns, their number and importance is, of course, unknown. But science has plenty to be getting on with in the pursuit of the knowledge we need. “Is it reasonable to expect a solution to Sars-CoV-2 in four months?” asked Stoye. “As various people are supposed to have said: ‘The difficult we do immediately. The impossible takes a little longer.’”
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I haven't delved into the GHS index beyond noting that the US and the UK were supposedly the most prepared. Upon which, I lost the will to read further...
https://www.ghsindex.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/2019-Global-Health-Security-Index.pdf
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I first noticed that people of BAME ethnicity seemed to be disproportionately affected in the US, and it seems to be the case elsewhere as well.
A potential explanation:
https://www.pasteur.fr/en/africans-and-europeans-have-genetically-different-immune-systems-and-neanderthals-had-something-do
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I haven't delved into the GHS index beyond noting that the US and the UK were supposedly the most prepared. Upon which, I lost the will to read further...
https://www.ghsindex.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/2019-Global-Health-Security-Index.pdf
Why? I thought it was a very interesting article, but hey ho, each to their own.
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Rumsfield "knowns and unknowns" :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REWeBzGuzCc
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Why? I thought it was a very interesting article, but hey ho, each to their own.
It is interesting, and thanks for posting the article as I wouldn't have been able to read it otherwise.
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One of the unknowns was whether someone who'd already been infected could catch it again.
A report from South Korea has apparently found that "reinfections" were, in fact, false positives. If that's confirmed elsewhere, that would be good news.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2020/may/03/coronavirus-reinfections-were-false-positives-says-who-technical-lead-video
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I've been reading discussions between medical staff swapping tips on work arounds.
A potentially promising one from the UK was when they'd run out of ventilators, they nicked the little machines normally used for sleep apnoea. So far, it seems that it has offered a better outcome than intubation.
Another from the UK was to "prone" patients on ventilators, i.e. put them on their tummies.
Another make-do solution originated in Italy, by adapting a full-face diving mask.
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I've been reading discussions between medical staff swapping tips on work arounds.
A potentially promising one from the UK was when they'd run out of ventilators, they nicked the little machines normally used for sleep apnoea. So far, it seems that it has offered a better outcome than intubation.
Another from the UK was to "prone" patients on ventilators, i.e. put them on their tummies.
Another make-do solution originated in Italy, by adapting a full-face diving mask.
Seen then doing this in Italy Carana some weeks before the virus hit the UK proper.
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im not saying he is right but i think its too early to start judging which country did the right thing
Swedish Covid-19 expert says other Scandinavian countries will be hit just as badly when they lift restrictions and New Zealand faces DECADES of quarantining foreigners if they wipe virus out
Swedish expert Johan Giesecke believes coronavirus lockdowns are 'futile'
Lack of a vaccine means that everyone will be exposed eventually, he argues
That means strict measures are only delaying mass infection, not preventing it
He defended Sweden's lockdown-free strategy, saying other countries will catch up with its case and death tolls whether they went into lockdown or not
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Don't know, Davel.
Maybe that solution seemed sensible to them in the light of their society: Swedes seem more personally responsible, 50% live alone, 40%+ work from home... They do seem to have the usual precautions in place, but as long as their hospitals could cope, they didn't to go as far as a lockdown.
A criticism in Sweden has been that not enough was done to protect the elderly... as in so many countries.
From what I can gather, a lockdown isn't a long-term solution: it's an emergency measure to prevent hospital saturation, and to give authorities time to ramp up, once they overwhelmed by containment attempts.
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This seems to be the study on UVC that got drowned out by Dettol Don's ruminations:
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200327-can-you-kill-coronavirus-with-uv-light
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If it gives you pancreatitis drink fresh milk.
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The elusive Exercise Cygnus report (of the pandemic preparedness simulation that took place in October 2016).
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/07/revealed-the-secret-report-that-gave-ministers-warning-of-care-home-coronavirus-crisis
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If it gives you pancreatitis drink fresh milk.
Fluids are required, but not necessarily milk imo.
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It has been brought to my attention that some posters are still using inappropriate comments and remarks towards other members on the boards. Forum rules dictate that all responses should be amicable and constructive, there is no need to express any opinion or respond to any question aggressively.
Please keep this in mind guys when posting. TY
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If it gives you pancreatitis drink fresh milk.
Cows Milk? How does this make sense?
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Cows Milk? How does this make sense?
I don't know but from what I've read since having the acute pancreatitis is that it is not actually a bacterial infection yet the doctors were giving me antibiotics 4 times a day for two and a half days. So how do the antibiotics work?
In pancreatitis the enzymes that the pancreas produces start attacking the organ itself. It was the reaction in my gut to food that was continuing to cause flatulence (burping etc), and the consumption of the milk seemed to stabilize this process.
I'm continuing to drink milk at bedtime since then. I don't know if you have it in the UK but about 7 years ago I switched to drinking A2 milk. So it is not just any milk but A2 milk for me. I never asked the nurse for A2 milk so I'm not sure of the type but it tasted like A2 milk.
Now, remember I had been taking Berocca for about a week prior to my attack. Looking up side effects of Berocca for the first time "Berocca Side Effects by Likelihood and Severity" https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-167620/berocca-folic-acid-guarana-caffeine-oral/details/list-sideeffects
they include "gas" and "Swelling Of The Abdomen" both symptoms I had. I noticed the milk reduced the gas.
Milk doesn't seem to help with pancreatitis as such but if the gas pressure was causing the pancreatic duct to malfunction there maybe a connection.
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I don't know but from what I've read since having the acute pancreatitis is that it is not actually a bacterial infection yet the doctors were giving me antibiotics 4 times a day for two and a half days. So how do the antibiotics work?
In pancreatitis the enzymes that the pancreas produces start attacking the organ itself. It was the reaction in my gut to food that was continuing to cause flatulence (burping etc), and the consumption of the milk seemed to stabilize this process.
I'm continuing to drink milk at bedtime since then. I don't know if you have it in the UK but about 7 years ago I switched to drinking A2 milk. So it is not just any milk but A2 milk for me. I never asked the nurse for A2 milk so I'm not sure of the type but it tasted like A2 milk.
Now, remember I had been taking Berocca for about a week prior to my attack. Looking up side effects of Berocca for the first time "Berocca Side Effects by Likelihood and Severity" https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-167620/berocca-folic-acid-guarana-caffeine-oral/details/list-sideeffects
they include "gas" and "Swelling Of The Abdomen" both symptoms I had. I noticed the milk reduced the gas.
Milk doesn't seem to help with pancreatitis as such but if the gas pressure was causing the pancreatic duct to malfunction there maybe a connection.
I am not in UK. I buy Raw Milk from the local farm. But I am not sure if humans should be drinking Cows Milk. Probably not. Although I can't think of an alternative, apart from Goats Milk.
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I am not in UK. I buy Raw Milk from the local farm. But I am not sure if humans should be drinking Cows Milk. Probably not. Although I can't think of an alternative, apart from Goats Milk.
What are the advantages/disadvantages of non pasteurised milk?
What about soya milk?
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What are the advantages/disadvantages of non pasteurised milk?
What about soya milk?
Or rather soya?
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What are the advantages/disadvantages of non pasteurised milk?
What about soya milk?
Raw Milk tastes better. It tastes like Milk, which most people have forgotten.
The Cows are Tuberculine Tested. And it is half the price.
I have no idea about Soya Milk.
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What are the advantages/disadvantages of non pasteurised milk?
What about soya milk?
Soya milk is bland, virtually tasteless and almost as bad as skimmed and semi-skimmed cow's milk. Why some people pay through the nose for whitewash astonishes me. I first tried it because there was a recent shortage of full-fat milk, but never again. It's a con.
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Soya milk is bland, virtually tasteless and almost as bad as skimmed and semi-skimmed cow's milk. Why some people pay through the nose for whitewash astonishes me. I first tried it because there was a recent shortage of full-fat milk, but never again. It's a con.
Goats milk is half decent, but you mostly have to get if from the Goat Owner, if you can find one.
Goats Milk is the closest to to human milk for humans. But I don't really want to go into that.
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I am not in UK. I buy Raw Milk from the local farm. But I am not sure if humans should be drinking Cows Milk. Probably not. Although I can't think of an alternative, apart from Goats Milk.
Cows' milk is designed to build a cow, so it surely can't be good for you, but I've raised pups, kittens and hedgehogs on goats' milk, so it must be easy to digest.
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Cows' milk is designed to build a cow, so it surely can't be good for you, but I've raised pups, kittens and hedgehogs on goats' milk, so it must be easy to digest.
Although Adult dogs and cats should not be drinking Cows Milk. I don't know about Goats Milk. But it is difficult to find.
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A2 milk is a variety of cows' milk that mostly lacks a form of β-casein proteins called A1, and instead has mostly the A2 form.[1] Cows' milk like this was brought to market by The a2 Milk Company and is sold mostly in Australia, New Zealand, China, the United States, and the United Kingdom.[2] Non-cow milk, including that of humans, sheep, goats, donkeys, yaks, camels, buffalo, and others, also contain mostly A2 β-casein, and so the term "A2 milk" is also used in that context.[3][4]
The a2 Milk Company claims that milk containing A1 proteins is harmful, and some companies producing goat's milk products make similar claims,[5] but a 2009 European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) review found that it could not be established that bioactive peptides in milk containing both the A1 and A2 proteins have an adverse effect on health.[2] - from Wikipedia.
Since being on A2 milk my health has improved, so I swear by it even though it isn't the cheapest.
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Soya milk is bland, virtually tasteless and almost as bad as skimmed and semi-skimmed cow's milk. Why some people pay through the nose for whitewash astonishes me. I first tried it because there was a recent shortage of full-fat milk, but never again. It's a con.
Soya milk is higher in protein and lower in carbs/sugar which helps to burn fat and build muscle! I often substitute it for dairy milk in coffee and put it on a sliced banana for my breakfast.
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Cows' milk is designed to build a cow, so it surely can't be good for you, but I've raised pups, kittens and hedgehogs on goats' milk, so it must be easy to digest.
We once had a cute pussy that would just stroll in through open doors and despite my aversion to animals indoors I weakened and put out a saucer of cream but it turned up its nose. It wasn't even any old cream it was M&S cream. I thought pussies liked cream but apparently not. When I Googled it appears they're lactose intolerant!
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Can't wait to have my eyebrows/lashes tinted and hair cut/coloured, when are these places opening up? Even when they do I guess getting an appointment will be another thing. 8)><(
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Can't wait to have my eyebrows/lashes tinted and hair cut/coloured, when are these places opening up? Even when they do I guess getting an appointment will be another thing. 8)><(
DIY.
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Can't wait to have my eyebrows/lashes tinted and hair cut/coloured, when are these places opening up? Even when they do I guess getting an appointment will be another thing. 8)><(
I think (and hope) July 4th (in England, that is).
My hairdresser called me out of the blue, and offered me an appointment for the 7th ! SO glad I'm a "regular", and put my name down on the waiting list.
A friend tells me she has an appointment for the 10th, so perhaps the wait won't be that long-----some people will be scared of going, and I would imagine quite a few have had these things done--um---"illegally".
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Coronavirus: Six types of COVID-19 identified by scientists in 'major' breakthrough for treatment
Symptoms not widely linked to the virus - like confusion and abdominal pain - are found to be hallmarks of its most severe forms.
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-six-types-of-covid-19-identified-by-scientists-in-major-breakthrough-for-treatment-12030652