UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 28, 2020, 10:18:35 PM
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I’ve today studied the attached photograph of Sheila which shows her whole body.
I only came across it this afternoon, and immediately noticed the angle of her foot. When you look you will see that it’s pointing downwards as far as a foot can go. It goes almost to a point like that of a ballerina dancing. I don’t need to tell anyone that none of us sleep with our feet in that position, and more crucially, when people die all their muscles relax and stop working. I’ve seen dead bodies in a mortuary, and their feet usually ALWAYS lay outwards due to the loss of muscle control. Sometimes they’re just in the normal position our feet adopt when we’re laying on our back. I’ve also added a few stock photos of dead people’s feet, and you’ll see by them what I mean.
Never have I seen — nor can I find on the Internet — any image of a dead person’s foot in the same position as Sheila’s.
This photograph strongly suggests to me that Sheila was dragged by her feet moments after she died. I believe when Jeremy killed her with the second shot, and realising she couldn’t have shot herself in a slightly raised position, he dragged her by the feet so as to place the gun on her lap.
As he pulled her foot, and he must have really pulled hard, her foot naturally went into a pointed position. As she was dead and her muscles no longer functioned, her foot remained pointing down. Her foot couldn’t have returned to its normal upwards position as her muscles no longer functioned.
Sheila had been dead for hours by the time police raided, and besides having liver mortis she was also entering rigor mortis. Dr Vanezis stated that when he examined her that afternoon she had gone into extreme rigor mortis. This proves that the killer dragged Sheila along. The police officers didn’t even touch her (except when they removed the gun then put it back on her lap for the photographs) because by the time they raided the house Sheila’s muscles were then setting in that same position Jeremy had left her in, so they couldn’t have put her foot in that position as all her muscles had ceased working and as she was going into RM it would have been impossible to change the angle.
Was this ever noted by anyone?
I think it’s extremely significant.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Yes I see what you mean. I'm looking for the image of June as a comparison.
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I’ve today studied the attached photograph of Sheila which shows her whole body.
I only came across it this afternoon, and immediately noticed the angle of her foot. When you look you will see that it’s pointing downwards as far as a foot can go. It goes almost to a point like that of a ballerina dancing. I don’t need to tell anyone that none of us sleep with our feet in that position, and more crucially, when people die all their muscles relax and stop working. I’ve seen dead bodies in a mortuary, and their feet usually ALWAYS lay outwards due to the loss of muscle control. Sometimes they’re just in the normal position our feet adopt when we’re laying on our back. I’ve also added a few stock photos of dead people’s feet, and you’ll see by them what I mean.
Never have I seen — nor can I find on the Internet — any image of a dead person’s foot in the same position as Sheila’s.
This photograph strongly suggests to me that Sheila was dragged by her feet moments after she died. I believe when Jeremy killed her with the second shot, and realising she couldn’t have shot herself in a slightly raised position, he dragged her by the feet so as to place the gun on her lap.
As he pulled her foot, and he must have really pulled hard, her foot naturally went into a pointed position. As she was dead and her muscles no longer functioned, her foot remained pointing down. Her foot couldn’t have returned to its normal upwards position as her muscles no longer functioned.
Sheila had been dead for hours by the time police raided, and besides having liver mortis she was also entering rigor mortis. Dr Vanezis stated that when he examined her that afternoon she had gone into extreme rigor mortis. This proves that the killer dragged Sheila along. The police officers didn’t even touch her (except when they removed the gun then put it back on her lap for the photographs) because by the time they raided the house Sheila’s muscles were then setting in that same position Jeremy had left her in, so they couldn’t have put her foot in that position as all her muscles had ceased working and as she was going into RM it would have been impossible to change the angle.
Was this ever noted by anyone?
I think it’s extremely significant.
Surely he'd have pulled her by the ankles?
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Surely he'd have pulled her by the ankles?
Yes, he would have, but in doing so it would have pushed her foot down as she had no working muscles.
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Yes I see what you mean. I'm looking for the image of June as a comparison.
Seems to me June's feet are in a similar position.
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Her left foot is completely lowered, and he’s right handed so he would have pulled her left ankle harder, hence why that one’s pointing downwards more than her right one.
It would have stayed in that position as she was dead.
It’s an uncomfortable position too (for someone who’s alive) and definitely isn’t a natural one.
This photo also shows the length of the rifle much better — and that’s without the silencer. There’s no way in a million years she could have shot herself. And with just one arm too?
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Seems to me June's feet are in a similar position.
June’s feet are not in the same position at all.
If you compare them side by side Sheila’s is unnaturally pointing downwards as far as it can possibly go.
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Seems to me June's feet are in a similar position.
June has smears on her legs that probably means she was moved too.
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Good work Ispy. Her feet don't look right. My amateur opinion is that this supports Mr Ismail's evidence. 8((()*/
I would quite like there to be a retrial with new expert evidence sometimes, not that there is any need for one.
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Good work Ispy. Her feet don't look right. My amateur opinion is that this supports Mr Ismail's evidence. 8((()*/
I would quite like there to be a retrial with new expert evidence sometimes, not that there is any need for one.
Thank you, CS, but it just jumped out at me. Possibly because I’ve had the misfortune to see dead bodies in a mortuary, but the feet position has always stayed with me for some reason.
Mr Ismael: I’ve Sen him mentioned, but can’t recall what he said. Do you have a link at all, please?
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June has smears on her legs that probably means she was moved too.
I think those smears are liver mortis, Caroline, where the blood pools downwards with gravity as there’s no circulation.
I wonder if Holly has the full photo showing all of June’s left foot? From what I can see it looks flopped to the left but in a normal position. Her right foot is also flopped sideways, but it isn’t pointing downwards.
I shall try and draw a line along Sheila’s left leg, as going by the picture it’s almost straight down right to her toes. That isn’t a natural angle when someone is dead, or even alive unless they’re deliberately pointing their foot and toes downwards.
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Thank you, CS, but it just jumped out at me. Possibly because I’ve had the misfortune to see dead bodies in a mortuary, but the feet position has always stayed with me for some reason.
Mr Ismael: I’ve Sen him mentioned, but can’t recall what he said. Do you have a link at all, please?
Ismail is the blood pattern analysis expert that had new prosecution evidence mentioned at the end of the appeal regarding Sheila being pulled by her legs/feet and her bunched up nightdress. Para 514 -
https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2002/2912.html
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June has smears on her legs that probably means she was moved too.
My thoughts too. I've been studying my own feet and trying to relax them and my scientific experiment is conclusive. Jeremy did it. 8((()*/
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Ismail is the blood pattern analysis expert that had new prosecution evidence mentioned at the end of the appeal regarding Sheila being pulled by her legs/feet and her bunched up nightdress. Para 514 -
https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2002/2912.html
Thank you, CS — I shall look now 8((()*/
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My thoughts too. I've been studying my own feet and trying to relax them and my scientific experiment is conclusive. Jeremy did it. 8((()*/
Yes! It’s impossible to relax them into that position isn’t it?
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Looking again at the photograph of Sheila, which room does that door lead to which she’s laying next to?
Does anyone know?
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Looking again at the photograph of Sheila, which room does that door lead to which she’s laying next to?
Does anyone know?
A box room which leads through to the twin's room.
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I think those smears are liver mortis, Caroline, where the blood pools downwards with gravity as there’s no circulation.
I wonder if Holly has the full photo showing all of June’s left foot? From what I can see it looks flopped to the left but in a normal position. Her right foot is also flopped sideways, but it isn’t pointing downwards.
I shall try and draw a line along Sheila’s left leg, as going by the picture it’s almost straight down right to her toes. That isn’t a natural angle when someone is dead, or even alive unless they’re deliberately pointing their foot and toes downwards.
No, she has blood stains on both lower parts of her legs it's in the PM report. She also had linear smears on her neck - sounds like throttle marks!
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No, she has blood stains on both lower parts of her legs it's in the PM report. She also had linear smears on her neck - sounds like throttle marks!
Has this been missed Caroline ?
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A box room which leads through to the twin's room.
Thank you, Holly
Did the box room have furniture or storage in, do you know?
And was the door leading to the twins bedroom accessible?
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No, she has blood stains on both lower parts of her legs it's in the PM report. She also had linear smears on her neck - sounds like throttle marks!
Thank you, Caroline
I shall look again
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No, she has blood stains on both lower parts of her legs it's in the PM report. She also had linear smears on her neck - sounds like throttle marks!
I just did a search, and you’re spot on, Caroline
The five linear marks on June’s neck is indicative of a bloodied hand (obviously wearing gloves) trying to strangle her or/and keep her quiet.
Five.
Five marks.
Four fingers and the thumb.
Strong clench, and no fingernail marks/scratches...just a hand, gloved.
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Sorry to ask all all these questions, but I don’t have all my research on on this device, so need to clarify.
I believe Nevill slept on the RHS of the bed while June slept on the LHS closest to the main bedroom door?
Is that right?
Also, does anyone know if that door was opened to the box room when the police raided?
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Just bumping this up...
I did ask if anyone knew which side of the bed June and Nevill slept on, but I must have had a blond moment 🙄
June obviously slept on the left side closest to the main bedroom door.
So I expect Jeremy first went into the twins bedroom, killed them both by shooting bullets into their little heads, then quietly crept through the box room and entered the master bedroom through the door nearest Nevill — who was his biggest threat. He’d obviously pre-planned it all as meticulously as his warped brain allowed.
Due to it being dark he obviously missed Nevill’s head and June got shot first.
This woke Nevill who immediately jumped up giving Jeremy no space to shoot him, and that’s when June ran round to Nevill’s side to try and help, hence her blood trail. Jeremy then ran out through the door onto the landing and Nevill chased him hoping to disarm him, and that’s when Jeremy managed to shoot him at the top of the stairs.
June also ran to the bedroom door to try and help, and that's when Jeremy shot her point blank between her eyes.
What an evil stinking B!!
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Just bumping this up...
I did ask if anyone knew which side of the bed June and Nevill slept on, but I must have had a blond moment 🙄
June obviously slept on the left side closest to the main bedroom door.
So I expect Jeremy first went into the twins bedroom, killed them both by shooting bullets into their little heads, then quietly crept through the box room and entered the master bedroom through the door nearest Nevill — who was his biggest threat. He’d obviously pre-planned it all as meticulously as his warped brain allowed.
Due to it being dark he obviously missed Nevill’s head and June got shot first.
This woke Nevill who immediately jumped up giving Jeremy no space to shoot him, and that’s when June ran round to Nevill’s side to try and help, hence her blood trail. Jeremy then ran out through the door onto the landing and Nevill chased him hoping to disarm him, and that’s when Jeremy managed to shoot him at the top of the stairs.
June also ran to the bedroom door to try and help, and that's when Jeremy shot her point blank between her eyes.
What an evil stinking B!!
It depends on if you mean the left hand side from if you are sleeping in a bed or looking at it from the foot.
I always imagined that Bamber was standing on June's side of the bed which would be consistent with NB sustaining wounds in his LHS as he leapt out of bed.
Holly is forever saying we need to come up with our own scenarios but the prosecution already done that, it's for the doubters to come up with a more or equally plausible one, the main hurdle being conjuring up a remotely believable scene where NB turns his back on an armed and dangerous Sheila to call JB, wait for him to wake up, wander downstairs and answer his phone!
Anyway, these diagrams might assist.
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It depends on if you mean the left hand side from if you are sleeping in a bed or looking at it from the foot.
I always imagined that Bamber was standing on June's side of the bed which would be consistent with NB sustaining wounds in his LHS as he leapt out of bed.
Holly is forever saying we need to come up with our own scenarios but the prosecution already done that, it's for the doubters to come up with a more or equally plausible one, the main hurdle being conjuring up a remotely believable scene where NB turns his back on an armed and dangerous Sheila to call JB, wait for him to wake up, wander downstairs and answer his phone!
Anyway, these diagrams might assist.
Thank you, CS — that’s very helpful:)
When I say June slept on the left side of the bed, I’m meaning the left side as you get into it and Nevill would have slept to the right of her. That’s why Jeremy would have approached the room from the box room, hoping to shoot Nevill first. I think (but I’m not sure) it was Nevill’s side where the telephone used to sit — which would make sense as he’d probably want to answer the phone if anyone rang late at night with a problem happening on the farm.
Nevill wasn’t shot in the bedroom, CS, which further suggests Jeremy ran out the room. Nevill was shot just outside the bedroom on the landing and at the top of the stairs. All the bullet casings when Nevill was shot were found on the landing, as was his blood. None of Nevill’s blood was found in the bedroom.
Yes, the ludicrous suggestion by his gullible supporters that Nevill would have tried phoning Jeremy when June had just been shot in front of his eyes, defies belief. It’s absolutely pathetic. Besides, Nevill was unable to speak due to being already shot upstairs and having his tongue almost ripped out, his jawbone smashed, and his throat full of blood.
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Thank you, CS — that’s very helpful:)
When I say June slept on the left side of the bed, I’m meaning the left side as you get into it and Nevill would have slight to the right of her. That’s why Jeremy would have approached the room from the box room, hoping to shoot Nevill first. I think (but I’m not sure) it was Nevill’s side where the telephone used to sit — which would make sense as he’d probably want to answer the phone if anyone rang late at night with a problem happening on the farm.
Nevill wasn’t shot in the bedroom, CS, which further suggests Jeremy ran out the room. Nevill was shot just outside the bedroom on the landing and at the top of the stairs. All the bullet casings when Nevill was shot were found on the landing, as was his blood. None of Nevill’s blood was found in the bedroom.
Yes, the ludicrous suggestion by his gullible supporters that Nevill would have tried phoning Jeremy when June had just been shot in front of his eyes, defies belief. It’s absolutely pathetic. Besides, Nevill was unable to speak due to being already shot upstairs and having his tongue almost ripped out, his jawbone smashed, and his throat full of blood.
Spy, there was only one casing on the stairs (DRH 14) and one situated in the doorway (DRH 13). The other casings associated with Nevill are in the bedroom.
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Spy, there was only one casing on the stairs (DRH 14) and one situated in the doorway (DRH 13). The other casings associated with Nevill are in the bedroom.
Ah, thank you for that, Caroline — I must have missed that
But as there was none of Nevill’s blood in the bedroom that sounds like the casings flew into room as stepped outside the door
That sounds even more of an assassination style shooting...Jeremy ran out the room when he realised he couldn’t shoot him being so close when Nevill shot up, so he ran down the hallway and as Nevill stepped out fired at him
It’s becoming clearer and clearer to me....
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Ah, thank you for that, Caroline — I must have missed that
But as there was none of Nevill’s blood in the bedroom that sounds like the casings flew into room as stepped outside the door
That sounds even more of an assassination style shooting...Jeremy ran out the room when he realised he couldn’t shoot him being so close when Nevill shot up, so he ran down the hallway and as Nevill stepped out fired at him
It’s becoming clearer and clearer to me....
8((()*/
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Thank you, CS — that’s very helpful:)
When I say June slept on the left side of the bed, I’m meaning the left side as you get into it and Nevill would have slept to the right of her. That’s why Jeremy would have approached the room from the box room, hoping to shoot Nevill first. I think (but I’m not sure) it was Nevill’s side where the telephone used to sit — which would make sense as he’d probably want to answer the phone if anyone rang late at night with a problem happening on the farm.
Nevill wasn’t shot in the bedroom, CS, which further suggests Jeremy ran out the room. Nevill was shot just outside the bedroom on the landing and at the top of the stairs. All the bullet casings when Nevill was shot were found on the landing, as was his blood. None of Nevill’s blood was found in the bedroom.
Yes, the ludicrous suggestion by his gullible supporters that Nevill would have tried phoning Jeremy when June had just been shot in front of his eyes, defies belief. It’s absolutely pathetic. Besides, Nevill was unable to speak due to being already shot upstairs and having his tongue almost ripped out, his jawbone smashed, and his throat full of blood.
I can't be bothered to look at this in detail tbh Ispy, the prosecution alleged that he must have opened fire on Nevill and June while they were asleep and that's good enough for me. It's up to JB supporters to come up with an alternative where SC and NB are up and about before the shooting starts.
The idea that SC comes in, starts shooting June, misses NB who then runs down to make a quick phone call to JB before coming back up to get shot and run back down again is just plain silly but equally silly is the notion that SC & NB are downstairs, SC with the gun "going crazy" but yet to shoot anyone and NB decides to call JB.
It all comes back to JBs claim that his father called.
Then you add in the fact that there wasn't a speck of evidence on Sheila, the blood in the silencer and JMs evidence and come to the conclusion that 2 jury members needed their bumps felt.
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I can't be bothered to look at this in detail tbh Ispy, the prosecution alleged that he must have opened fire on Nevill and June while they were asleep and that's good enough for me. It's up to JB supporters to come up with an alternative where SC and NB are up and about before the shooting starts.
The idea that SC comes in, starts shooting June, misses NB who then runs down to make a quick phone call to JB before coming back up to get shot and run back down again is just plain silly but equally silly is the notion that SC & NB are downstairs, SC with the gun "going crazy" but yet to shoot anyone and NB decides to call JB.
It all comes back to JBs claim that his father called.
Then you add in the fact that there wasn't a speck of evidence on Sheila, the blood in the silencer and JMs evidence and come to the conclusion that 2 jury members needed their bumps felt.
You’re right, CS
The evidence against Jeremy Bamber is overwhelming, which ever door he crept in....😖
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You’re right, CS
The evidence against Jeremy Bamber is overwhelming, which ever door he crept in....😖
It isn't it comes down to the blood/silencer evidenced by the fact the CCRC referred the case to CoA on the back of this. If the other 'evidence' was strong the CCRC would have fallen back on this and the case wouldn't have been referred.
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It isn't it comes down to the blood/silencer evidenced by the fact the CCRC referred the case to CoA on the back of this. If the other 'evidence' was strong the CCRC would have fallen back on this and the case wouldn't have been referred.
That's not how the CoA works.
Take the Barry George case for example; the speck of gunpowder may have been impressive to the jury and it may not but the fact is they weren't told of possible contamination which might have had a bearing on their decision and the conviction was quashed on that basis.
There still remained strong circumstantial evidence enough to try him twice more.
Didn't Arlidge say to the jury you could throw the silencer out of the window and still convict Bamber?
I do however agree that the blood/silencer evidence is key and significantly undermining it would lead to a retrial, but I just can't see it being done.
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It isn't it comes down to the blood/silencer evidenced by the fact the CCRC referred the case to CoA on the back of this. If the other 'evidence' was strong the CCRC would have fallen back on this and the case wouldn't have been referred.
He had his chance on the silencer.
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It isn't it comes down to the blood/silencer evidenced by the fact the CCRC referred the case to CoA on the back of this. If the other 'evidence' was strong the CCRC would have fallen back on this and the case wouldn't have been referred.
And that was all slung out of court in less than an hour
The evidence didn’t rely solely on the evidence of the silencer — as damning as it was to Jeremy Bamber — it relied on stacks and stacks of other evidence too, which was overwhelming.
The judge even said to the jury they could make a decision on Julie Mugford’s evidence alone....
Appeal slung out.
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That's not how the CoA works.
Take the Barry George case for example; the speck of gunpowder may have been impressive to the jury and it may not but the fact is they weren't told of possible contamination which might have had a bearing on their decision and the conviction was quashed on that basis.
There still remained strong circumstantial evidence enough to try him twice more.
Didn't Arlidge say to the jury you could throw the silencer out of the window and still convict Bamber?
I do however agree that the blood/silencer evidence is key and significantly undermining it would lead to a retrial, but I just can't see it being done.
Yes, CS — Aldridge did indeed say JB could be found guilty due to all the other overwhelming evidence
And the fact he’s lost every appeal since then simply proves he murdered his family
The courts would never do a retrial: besides being impossible due to witnesses being dead and 35 years having gone by, if they COULD do a retrial he’d get found guilty again as even more evidence has come to light that he’s the killer. There was some evidence the prosecution didn’t show the court in 1986, so they’d never spend hundreds of thousands on another trial simply to get the same result: GUILTY.
On top of that, all his contradictory letters he’s written over the last 35 years ties him up in knots.
As far as the CPS are concerned JB is just a pest and no longer significant. He’s guilty and they’ve thrown away the key.
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Yes, CS — Aldridge did indeed say JB could be found guilty due to all the other overwhelming evidence
And the fact he’s lost every appeal since then simply proves he murdered his family
The courts would never do a retrial: besides being impossible due to witnesses being dead and 35 years having gone by, if they COULD do a retrial he’d get found guilty again as even more evidence has come to light that he’s the killer. There was some evidence the prosecution didn’t show the court in 1986, so they’d never spend hundreds of thousands on another trial simply to get the same result: GUILTY.
On top of that, all his contradictory letters he’s written over the last 35 years ties him up in knots.
As far as the CPS are concerned JB is just a pest and no longer significant. He’s guilty and they’ve thrown away the key.
I couldn't agree more Ispy.
If there is a remote chance of the verdict being quashed it would be on a technicality only.There is no proving his innocence.
Despite the years served, this would I believe lead to a retrial as public safety is an issue. Convicted sex offenders still face a retrial even if they successfully appeal after serving their sentence for instance, they can't be sent back to prison but other public safety issues need to be decided such as the sex offender register and MAPPA.
I'm sure Bamber's lawyers would try to argue an abuse of process due to dead witnesses but like you say, there would remain more than enough evidence to convict him again and he himself has contributed to that. They could produce his own website and copious letters as evidence against him.
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I couldn't agree more Ispy.
If there is a remote chance of the verdict being quashed it would be on a technicality only.There is no proving his innocence.
Despite the years served, this would I believe lead to a retrial as public safety is an issue. Convicted sex offenders still face a retrial even if they successfully appeal after serving their sentence for instance, they can't be sent back to prison but other public safety issues need to be decided such as the sex offender register and MAPPA.
I'm sure Bamber's lawyers would try to argue an abuse of process due to dead witnesses but like you say, there would remain more than enough evidence to convict him again and he himself has contributed to that. They could produce his own website and copious letters as evidence against him.
Yes, CS, but he doesn’t have any alleged technicalities that could deem his conviction unsafe. All of the technicalities he claims to find are so insignificant.
He claims things as such:
~Police were in conversation with someone in the WH farm. Yes they were: with him. And police records show that.
~ Police saw movement inside the house: yes, it was a trick of the moonlight, shadows & breeze
~ A 999 call was made at 6am from the house: no, that was the police listening into the open line
~ Nevill called police at 03:35: no, the control room officer paraphrased what Jeremy said
And so it goes on...petty complaints that have been disproven in the past, and won’t be heard again.
Even if he did have a solid technicality he could prove was unjust, that doesn’t negate all the overwhelming evidence that was presented to the court in 1986. His lies, slip ups, contradictions in his police statements, Julie’s solid testimony, her friends statements saying he called Julie at approximately 3am, the fact he had a motive, he’d read the wills/home contents insurance, proof he broke into WHF, his behaviour immediately after the funeral, his lavish spending, holidays, him trying to sell Sheila’s personal photographs for £20k, the different masks he wears depending on who he’s writing to i.e. Colin etc, and that’s without the fact Sheila could not have killed anyone with that gun, let alone herself. And more...much more...
So even IF he could prove a mistake was made by a typo or whatever petty nonsense he spouts, he’d still be kept in prison for life, because the evidence against him is dynamite. Especially when they brought up things they’d not thought of, such as Sheila’s stomach contents only being partially digested meaning she was dead much earlier than 3am. He’d try and say she had a quick snack, but he wouldn’t be able to prove that; no-one would believe she did due to her medication and tiredness and the fact she’d eaten a full dinner at 9pm, plus all the documents in the archives which would prove what her stomach actually contained. And the silencer, they’ve since proved it was a trillion to one it was Sheila’s blood deep inside on the eighth baffle.
This will die a slow death and he will be forgotten again soon, but he’ll still control of his CT for a while as it’s the only thing he’s got to keep him occupied. Even that will break up and cease eventually, he’ll be 70 in 10 years and time whizzes by...no-one will give him a thought then, or even remember his name.
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Holly is convinced a reconstruction and further analysis of the blood in the silencer will free JB.
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Yes, CS, but he doesn’t have any alleged technicalities that could deem his conviction unsafe. All of the technicalities he claims to find are so insignificant.
He claims things as such:
~Police were in conversation with someone in the WH farm. Yes they were: with him. And police records show that.
~ Police saw movement inside the house: yes, it was a trick of the moonlight, shadows & breeze
~ A 999 call was made at 6am from the house: no, that was the police listening into the open line
~ Nevill called police at 03:35: no, the control room officer paraphrased what Jeremy said
And so it goes on...petty complaints that have been disproven in the past, and won’t be heard again.
Even if he did have a solid technicality he could prove was unjust, that doesn’t negate all the overwhelming evidence that was presented to the court in 1986. His lies, slip ups, contradictions in his police statements, Julie’s solid testimony, her friends statements saying he called Julie at approximately 3am, the fact he had a motive, he’d read the wills/home contents insurance, proof he broke into WHF, his behaviour immediately after the funeral, his lavish spending, holidays, him trying to sell Sheila’s personal photographs for £20k, the different masks he wears depending on who he’s writing to i.e. Colin etc, and that’s without the fact Sheila could not have killed anyone with that gun, let alone herself. And more...much more...
So even IF he could prove a mistake was made by a typo or whatever petty nonsense he spouts, he’d still be kept in prison for life, because the evidence against him is dynamite. Especially when they brought up things they’d not thought of, such as Sheila’s stomach contents only being partially digested meaning she was dead much earlier than 3am. He’d try and say she had a quick snack, but he wouldn’t be able to prove that; no-one would believe she did due to her medication and tiredness and the fact she’d eaten a full dinner at 9pm, plus all the documents in the archives which would prove what her stomach actually contained. And the silencer, they’ve since proved it was a trillion to one it was Sheila’s blood deep inside on the eighth baffle.
This will die a slow death and he will be forgotten again soon, but he’ll still control of his CT for a while as it’s the only thing he’s got to keep him occupied. Even that will break up and cease eventually, he’ll be 70 in 10 years and time whizzes by...no-one will give him a thought then, or even remember his name.
Those aren't technicalities Ispy, those are mad conspiracy fantasies conjured from a bit of sloppy paperwork!
Unfortunately, I don't think he will let himself be forgotten and as one of the most infamous cold blooded crimes of the last century, there will always be interest in the case and a few gullible types he can exploit.
*The "in conversation" conspiracy comes from an ambiguous single line written by a radio operator on the communications log. They were either in conversation with JB inside the farm (possibly "barn" but misheard) at 5.25 or it was an attempt to speak to anyone inside via the loudhailer. The next line in the log at 5.29 reads "Challenge to persons inside the house met with no response" - but the CT never mention the 5.29 entry!
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Holly is convinced a reconstruction and further analysis of the blood in the silencer will free JB.
It won't.
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Holly is convinced a reconstruction and further analysis of the blood in the silencer will free JB.
I think that ship sailed in 1985 and was sunk in 2002.
As for reconstructions, I don't think there is an actor capable of making NBs supposed call to JB remotely believable, unless maybe Laurence Olivier is resurrected and I suspect he would turn the part down after reading the script.
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Holly is convinced a reconstruction and further analysis of the blood in the silencer will free JB.
She must have been indoctrinated by Bamber — and he did a good job considering she spend almost 24/7 insisting he’s innocent — and that’s despite her apparently not having heard from him for two years 😳
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Those aren't technicalities Ispy, those are mad conspiracy fantasies conjured from a bit of sloppy paperwork!
Unfortunately, I don't think he will let himself be forgotten and as one of the most infamous cold blooded crimes of the last century, there will always be interest in the case and a few gullible types he can exploit.
*The "in conversation" conspiracy comes from an ambiguous single line written by a radio operator on the communications log. They were either in conversation with JB inside the farm (possibly "barn" but misheard) at 5.25 or it was an attempt to speak to anyone inside via the loudhailer. The next line in the log at 5.29 reads "Challenge to persons inside the house met with no response" - but the CT never mention the 5.29 entry!
Well, the CT would omit that part, wouldn’t they? Cherry pickers....
I don’t know why they do because anyone can find it on Google — they just make themselves look deceptive
So what actually are the technicalities he’s complaining about? $6(&
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I think that ship sailed in 1985 and was sunk in 2002.
As for reconstructions, I don't think there is an actor capable of making NBs supposed call to JB remotely believable, unless maybe Laurence Olivier is resurrected and I suspect he would turn the part down after reading the script.
I know it’s not a laughing matter in any shape or form, but for Holly to believe a reconstruction could take place &%%6
So how does she propose to have Nevill making the call?
Flicking through a telephone directory humming to himself (when no directory was in the kitchen, nor reading glasses) pouring a G&T while waiting for Chelmsford Police to reply....
Or standing with blood all over his face, gurgling as he couldn’t breathe properly?
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Well, the CT would omit that part, wouldn’t they? Cherry pickers....
I don’t know why they do because anyone can find it on Google — they just make themselves look deceptive
So what actually are the technicalities he’s complaining about? $6(&
He's still looking for a technicality. Have you heard the one about his whole trial and incarceration being illegal because the indictment was signed a day late? - It's on his website. Desperate stuff and legally wrong but if they deleted every bit of rubbish off the site it would just be a blank page.
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I know it’s not a laughing matter in any shape or form, but for Holly to believe a reconstruction could take place &%%6
So how does she propose to have Nevill making the call?
Flicking through a telephone directory humming to himself (when no directory was in the kitchen, nor reading glasses) pouring a G&T while waiting for Chelmsford Police to reply....
Or standing with blood all over his face, gurgling as he couldn’t breathe properly?
Helena Bonham Carter is going to play Sheila's part, the tricky bit is nailing the scene where NB convinces her to stop going crazy for a minute while he gets Jeremy on the phone so he can come to the rescue, but then, while his back is turned... the eastenders drum roll kicks in, followed by the Benny Hill theme and a speeded up SC runs up and down the stairs shooting, loading cartridges and having a shower and doing her nails.
You're right. We shouldn't laugh.
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Those aren't technicalities Ispy, those are mad conspiracy fantasies conjured from a bit of sloppy paperwork!
Unfortunately, I don't think he will let himself be forgotten and as one of the most infamous cold blooded crimes of the last century, there will always be interest in the case and a few gullible types he can exploit.
*The "in conversation" conspiracy comes from an ambiguous single line written by a radio operator on the communications log. They were either in conversation with JB inside the farm (possibly "barn" but misheard) at 5.25 or it was an attempt to speak to anyone inside via the loudhailer. The next line in the log at 5.29 reads "Challenge to persons inside the house met with no response" - but the CT never mention the 5.29 entry!
The 'in conversation' is in two parts "Firearms team are in conversation with A PERSON from inside the FARM. Challenge to PERSONS inside the HOUSE". Raid team members talk about being in conversation with Jeremy prior to challenging and entering the house so the first part is referring to him, the second part relates to using the loud hailers to try and rouse someone inside the house but these challengers were met with 'no response'. There is nothing more to this nd once you realise the points are separate, it's laughable to see it as Bamber and the CT promote it.
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I think that ship sailed in 1985 and was sunk in 2002.
As for reconstructions, I don't think there is an actor capable of making NBs supposed call to JB remotely believable, unless maybe Laurence Olivier is resurrected and I suspect he would turn the part down after reading the script.
As the Sale sign in the Camping shop window said - "Now is the Winter of our Discount Tents". None better than dear old camp Larry...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDxnXgYPnKg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDxnXgYPnKg)
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On top of that, all his contradictory letters he’s written over the last 35 years ties him up in knots.
8((()*/
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I'm sure Bamber's lawyers would try to argue an abuse of process due to dead witnesses but like you say, there would remain more than enough evidence to convict him again and he himself has contributed to that. They could produce his own website and copious letters as evidence against him.
8((()*/
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He's still looking for a technicality. Have you heard the one about his whole trial and incarceration being illegal because the indictment was signed a day late? - It's on his website. Desperate stuff and legally wrong but if they deleted every bit of rubbish off the site it would just be a blank page.
Pathetic ?8)@)-)
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He's still looking for a technicality. Have you heard the one about his whole trial and incarceration being illegal because the indictment was signed a day late? - It's on his website. Desperate stuff and legally wrong but if they deleted every bit of rubbish off the site it would just be a blank page.
It sounds like they’re trying to copy the lawyer known as Mr Loophole who got David Beckham off a speeding fine...
There’s a momentous difference between arguing over a driving offence and murdering five people — but they’re too deluded to see that
Whatever silly flaw they stumble upon won’t make a jot of difference to the terms of his conviction: he’s been sentenced to life in prison until he dies, and nothing will ever alter that. Could you imagine the public outcry if they allowed that mass murderer to walk free because one indictment was signed a day late?> 🤣
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I think that ship sailed in 1985 and was sunk in 2002.
As for reconstructions, I don't think there is an actor capable of making NBs supposed call to JB remotely believable, unless maybe Laurence Olivier is resurrected and I suspect he would turn the part down after reading the script.
Shooting reconstructions are based on the physical evidence at soc only. No actors required.
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Shooting reconstructions are based on the physical evidence at soc only. No actors required.
Explain how they are carried out then, if no human beings are involved in reconstructing events?
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Shooting reconstructions are based on the physical evidence at soc only. No actors required.
My tongue was firmly in my cheek. The supposed phone call from NB is always going to sink JB. It was a stupid lie.
Say you reconstruct the evidence and it shows that Sheila or Jeremy could have been behind the trigger - you are only put right back to the position at the start of the trial and we all know how that went.
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Explain how they are carried out then, if no human beings are involved in reconstructing events?
I uploaded two examples: The shooting of Fred Barras at Bleak Farm and the JFK shooting. I also attached a link to a shooting incident reconstruction book:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/book/9780123822413/shooting-incident-reconstruction
In one of Dr V's reports he tells us that the trajectories of the wound tracks NB sustained to his face were 10 - 20 degrees below the horizontal and the barrel within inches of his skin. What do you think this might mean? Do you think he would include a lot of unneccessary waffle to pad out his reports in an attempt to make them look more impressive or do you think this info might be relevant and relate to soc?
At trial he told the court the gsw NB sustained to his shoulder was fired from above. The rifle sans silencer was 48" long and NB 6' 4". The track of the wound was down through the top of the shoulder when the barrel was some 2 feet away. How do you think that came about?
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Shooting reconstructions are based on the physical evidence at soc only. No actors required.
So what’s the point of having a reconstruction in WHF when no-one knows exactly where Jeremy Bamber was standing when he fired the gun, and casings can ricochet thereby giving no clue as to where they were actually fired from?
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I uploaded two examples: The shooting of Fred Barras at Bleak Farm and the JFK shooting. I also attached a link to a shooting incident reconstruction book:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/book/9780123822413/shooting-incident-reconstruction
In one of Dr V's reports he tells us that the trajectories of the wound tracks NB sustained to his face were 10 - 20 degrees below the horizontal and the barrel within inches of his skin. What do you think this might mean? Do you think he would include a lot of unneccessary waffle to pad out his reports in an attempt to make them look more impressive or do you think this info might be relevant and relate to soc?
At trial he told the court the gsw NB sustained to his shoulder was fired from above. The rifle sans silencer was 48" long and NB 6' 4". The track of the wound was down through the top of the shoulder when the barrel was some 2 feet away. How do you think that came about?
All that proves is that Nevill shot from a certain angle and no-one knows where he was standing
Nor does it prove who shot the rifle
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All that proves is that Nevill shot from a certain angle and no-one knows where he was standing
Nor does it prove who shot the rifle
Or kneeling, crawling, ducking etc...
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He's still looking for a technicality. Have you heard the one about his whole trial and incarceration being illegal because the indictment was signed a day late? - It's on his website. Desperate stuff and legally wrong but if they deleted every bit of rubbish off the site it would just be a blank page.
IMO, Jeremy wouldn't be happy to get off on a technicality. He wants to prove that he is innocent.
His CT might be happy to get him off on a technicality, though, I don't know.
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IMO, Jeremy wouldn't be happy to get off on a technicality. He wants to prove that he is innocent.
His CT might be happy to get him off on a technicality, though, I don't know.
No because he would get any compo - but he would accept a technicality of that I am pretty certain.
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If he got off on a technicality he would still crow about being proven innocent.
That's what innocent fraudsters do.
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If he got off on a technicality he would still crow about being proven innocent.
That's what innocent fraudsters do.
Thank goodness that’ll never happen.
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Thank goodness that’ll never happen.
I agree he will not get off on a technicality. His conviction will be quashed on new forensic evidence.
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I agree he will not get off on a technicality. His conviction will be quashed on new forensic evidence.
Despite this being such a serious topic, I can always rely on you to give me a laugh 🤣
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Despite this being such a serious topic, I can always rely on you to give me a laugh 🤣
Nothing is laughable about this case---------unless one wants to imagine JB in a wetsuit, riding a ladies' bicycle to the farm in the middle of the night. That is the only thing I've ever been able to laugh about, although, perhaps, I shouldn't.
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Nothing is laughable about this case---------unless one wants to imagine JB in a wetsuit, riding a ladies' bicycle to the farm in the middle of the night. That is the only thing I've ever been able to laugh about, although, perhaps, I shouldn't.
I have to agree, this is one aspect of the case I find difficult and comical to imagine.
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I agree he will not get off on a technicality. His conviction will be quashed on new forensic evidence.
Then you have no time to lose - surely you're not going to wait another 2 years? He'll be too old to care shortly.
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Nothing is laughable about this case---------unless one wants to imagine JB in a wetsuit, riding a ladies' bicycle to the farm in the middle of the night. That is the only thing I've ever been able to laugh about, although, perhaps, I shouldn't.
Ahh, but you forget, MrsWah,
Jeremy left his washed/towel dried wetsuit in his bedroom at WHF 😌
After showering and & drying it off, he hung it in his old bedroom, which he then locked...put on his jeans and top and cycled home in the unlit roads...possibly removed the basket too — he’ll tell you, maybe? 😊
What’s funny about that?
Don’t forget, besides there being no people or cars around at 2am, plus he cycled through fields , hence all the mud in the wheels, there was no-one around to see him.
What’s funny about that?
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IMO, Jeremy wouldn't be happy to get off on a technicality. He wants to prove that he is innocent.
His CT might be happy to get him off on a technicality, though, I don't know.
Tad difficult when you’re guilty as hell...
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I have to agree, this is one aspect of the case I find difficult and comical to imagine.
He showered in his wetsuit at WHF, CS, twelfths dried hus wetsuit then hung it up right at the back of his old bedroom
He then put his jeans/top on and cycled home
The police discovered his wetsuit at WHF and Julie insisted he always kept it at Goldhanger.
Strangely enough, he didn’t have his flippers or snorekel at WHF — they were at Goldhanger — just the wetsuit.
Wonder why!😌
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Nothing is laughable about this case---------unless one wants to imagine JB in a wetsuit, riding a ladies' bicycle to the farm in the middle of the night. That is the only thing I've ever been able to laugh about, although, perhaps, I shouldn't.
You’re forgetting that Jeremy Bamber cycled down unlit paths, roads and fields, hence why the wheels were caked thick with mud. So of course he wouldn’t have been seen, especially as it was dead of night when people are all sleeping.
You’re also forgetting that he obviously wore jeans and a top over his wetsuit on the way to WHF, and then left the showered & dried off wetsuit at WHF when he cycled back to Goldhanger in just his jeans & top. It’s likely he simply removed the basket too — hardly difficult 😌
Any ideas on how the wheels became caked with thick mud?