UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Lace on June 24, 2020, 10:44:53 AM
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Anyone remember this -
Then, police again focused on Morocco in June, after GCHQ in Cheltenham picked up phone intercept messages in Arabic referring to "the little blonde girl", a German man, and a ferry from Tarifa in Spain.
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Anyone remember this -
Then, police again focused on Morocco in June, after GCHQ in Cheltenham picked up phone intercept messages in Arabic referring to "the little blonde girl", a German man, and a ferry from Tarifa in Spain.
Very interesting... I Wonder if they have the phone number
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I don't know if this has any connection to CB's activities but...
https://www.portugalresident.com/leader-of-trafficking-group-with-over-1000-victims-lived-in-portugal/
Leader of trafficking group with over 1000 victims “lived in Portugal”
By Natasha Donn -12th June 2020
Spanish police have dismantled an international people-trafficking gang that will have moved around 1000 victims through Europe, the majority women and children. Twelve people have been arrested, including the network’s leader – described as a citizen of central Africa who lived ‘between Portugal and Germany’.
According to a statement put out today by the Spanish Guardia Civil (equivalent to Portugal’s GNR), most of the people arrested are of Moroccan and Sub-Saharan origin.
During the operation, searches were conducted throughout Spain, as well as three in Portugal and two in Germany. One person was also arrested in Holland.
The investigation began over two years ago after Spanish police ‘detected’ that a large number of immigrants were being transferred to France under duress. The victims were, in the main, African migrants “among whom it was common to find minors and pregnant women recruited from their home countries to work in an irregular, precarious way in Spain”.
These victims were later transported to France, Belgium and Germany for payments of between €500 and €750, say reports.
Also apprehended in the police swoop was a 500 kilo stash of marijuana and €500,000 in cash.
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I don't know if this has any connection to CB's activities but...
https://www.portugalresident.com/leader-of-trafficking-group-with-over-1000-victims-lived-in-portugal/
Leader of trafficking group with over 1000 victims “lived in Portugal”
By Natasha Donn -12th June 2020
Spanish police have dismantled an international people-trafficking gang that will have moved around 1000 victims through Europe, the majority women and children. Twelve people have been arrested, including the network’s leader – described as a citizen of central Africa who lived ‘between Portugal and Germany’.
According to a statement put out today by the Spanish Guardia Civil (equivalent to Portugal’s GNR), most of the people arrested are of Moroccan and Sub-Saharan origin.
During the operation, searches were conducted throughout Spain, as well as three in Portugal and two in Germany. One person was also arrested in Holland.
The investigation began over two years ago after Spanish police ‘detected’ that a large number of immigrants were being transferred to France under duress. The victims were, in the main, African migrants “among whom it was common to find minors and pregnant women recruited from their home countries to work in an irregular, precarious way in Spain”.
These victims were later transported to France, Belgium and Germany for payments of between €500 and €750, say reports.
Also apprehended in the police swoop was a 500 kilo stash of marijuana and €500,000 in cash.
The victims were, in the main, African migrants “among whom it was common to find minors and pregnant women recruited from their home countries to work in an irregular, precarious way in Spain”.
It's possible Maddie was trafficked along with these Africans, what with her having pasty white skin & being British she definitely wouldn't have stood out like a sore thumb.
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The victims were, in the main, African migrants “among whom it was common to find minors and pregnant women recruited from their home countries to work in an irregular, precarious way in Spain”.
It's possible Maddie was trafficked along with these Africans, what with her having pasty white skin & being British she definitely wouldn't have stood out like a sore thumb.
I don't think the point is the ethnicity of the trafficked victims or the direction in which they were taken. I think it is the fact there is a trafficking network firmly in place closely allied to the drug trade.
Looks like Sadie is due an apology for at least two or more of the points her research into Madeleine's disappearance brought to her attention.
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I don't think the point is the ethnicity of the trafficked victims or the direction in which they were taken. I think it is the fact there is a trafficking network firmly in place closely allied to the drug trade.
Looks like Sadie is due an apology for at least two or more of the points her research into Madeleine's disappearance brought to her attention.
Since the history of mass tourism from UK to Europe afaik MM is the British 'disappeared' child. No one before, during or since.
Families regularly jet off to locations that present a far greater risk of child abduction than Portugal/PDL eg South America/Mexico and yet afaik there are no known cases of British children disappearing in these places?
I don't know of another case anywhere in the world where a child has 'disappeared' on a family holiday?
What features of this case make it unprecedented? Context is very important imo.
If MM disappeared at the hands of organised criminals why only her?
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Since the history of mass tourism from UK to Europe afaik MM is the British 'disappeared' child. No one before, during or since.
Families regularly jet off to locations that present a far greater risk of child abduction than Portugal/PDL eg South America/Mexico and yet afaik there are no known cases of British children disappearing in these places?
I don't know of another case anywhere in the world where a child has 'disappeared' on a family holiday?
What features of this case make it unprecedented? Context is very important imo.
If MM disappeared at the hands of organised criminals why only her?
Perhaps because other children were better looked after.
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Since the history of mass tourism from UK to Europe afaik MM is the British 'disappeared' child. No one before, during or since.
Families regularly jet off to locations that present a far greater risk of child abduction than Portugal/PDL eg South America/Mexico and yet afaik there are no known cases of British children disappearing in these places?
I don't know of another case anywhere in the world where a child has 'disappeared' on a family holiday?
What features of this case make it unprecedented? Context is very important imo.
If MM disappeared at the hands of organised criminals why only her?
other children have been abducted. It may well be just group of circumstances coming together...may have been a burglary turned abduction...we know now that a person fitting that bill was in the area that night. or it may have been planned....again the right person in the right place. What you cannot reasonably do is say its impossible.
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other children have been abducted. It may well be just group of circumstances coming together...may have been a burglary turned abduction...we know now that a person fitting that bill was in the area that night. or it may have been planned....again the right person in the right place. What you cannot reasonably do is say its impossible.
Who are the other children you refer to who disappeared whilst on family hols? Feel free to go global it doesn't have to be just UK.
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Who are the other children you refer to who disappeared whilst on family hols? Feel free to go global it doesn't have to be just UK.
i never mnetione dfamily hols...I dont see why its relevant. children are abducted...its rare but it happens and its exactly what i think is the most likely in this instance.
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i never mnetione dfamily hols...I dont see why its relevant. children are abducted...its rare but it happens and its exactly what i think is the most likely in this instance.
My posts were in regard to family hols.
I don't think you can compare children abducted on family hols with children abducted from their permanent abode.
Do you know of any children anywhere in the world abducted on a family hol?
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My posts were in regard to family hols.
I don't think you can compare children abducted on family hols with children abducted from their permanent abode.
Do you know of any children anywhere in the world abducted on a family hol?
Why is that significant...i dont see it is
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i never mnetione dfamily hols...I dont see why its relevant. children are abducted...its rare but it happens and its exactly what i think is the most likely in this instance.
Even though it sounds as it is unique. not rare
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Why is that significant...i dont see it is
Well, I don't know why you don't see it - imo it would mean Maddie would b the first one abducted.
But there again we don't know she was abducted or any evidence she was abducted,
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My posts were in regard to family hols.
I don't think you can compare children abducted on family hols with children abducted from their permanent abode.
Do you know of any children anywhere in the world abducted on a family hol?
Do you think it’s harder or easier to abduct a child from a holiday apartment than from their home?
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Do you think it’s harder or easier to abduct a child from a holiday apartment than from their home?
Well it must be harder from a holiday home seeing it as never been done
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Well it must be harder from a holiday home seeing it as never been done
What makes it harder?
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Since the history of mass tourism from UK to Europe afaik MM is the British 'disappeared' child. No one before, during or since.
Families regularly jet off to locations that present a far greater risk of child abduction than Portugal/PDL eg South America/Mexico and yet afaik there are no known cases of British children disappearing in these places?
I don't know of another case anywhere in the world where a child has 'disappeared' on a family holiday?
What features of this case make it unprecedented? Context is very important imo.
If MM disappeared at the hands of organised criminals why only her?
It wasn't only Madeleine perhaps suffering at the hands of organised crime.
Did you overlook the part in the link Misty provided http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7060.msg602811#msg602811 "The victims were, in the main, African migrants “among whom it was common to find minors ... "
Is it because the children are black their plight and the circumstances which enabled their transportation hasn't registered with you?
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I don't know if this has any connection to CB's activities but...
https://www.portugalresident.com/leader-of-trafficking-group-with-over-1000-victims-lived-in-portugal/
Leader of trafficking group with over 1000 victims “lived in Portugal”
By Natasha Donn -12th June 2020
Spanish police have dismantled an international people-trafficking gang that will have moved around 1000 victims through Europe, the majority women and children. Twelve people have been arrested, including the network’s leader – described as a citizen of central Africa who lived ‘between Portugal and Germany’.
According to a statement put out today by the Spanish Guardia Civil (equivalent to Portugal’s GNR), most of the people arrested are of Moroccan and Sub-Saharan origin.
During the operation, searches were conducted throughout Spain, as well as three in Portugal and two in Germany. One person was also arrested in Holland.
The investigation began over two years ago after Spanish police ‘detected’ that a large number of immigrants were being transferred to France under duress. The victims were, in the main, African migrants “among whom it was common to find minors and pregnant women recruited from their home countries to work in an irregular, precarious way in Spain”.
These victims were later transported to France, Belgium and Germany for payments of between €500 and €750, say reports.
Also apprehended in the police swoop was a 500 kilo stash of marijuana and €500,000 in cash.
By children I think they mean under 18.
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It wasn't only Madeleine perhaps suffering at the hands of organised crime.
Did you overlook the part in the link Misty provided http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7060.msg602811#msg602811 "The victims were, in the main, African migrants “among whom it was common to find minors ... "
Is it because the children are black their plight and the circumstances which enabled their transportation hasn't registered with you?
Again minors ie under 18, not 3.
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What makes it harder?
Well, obviously something if it's never been done.
A really good point of H G IMO
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It wasn't only Madeleine perhaps suffering at the hands of organised crime.
Did you overlook the part in the link Misty provided http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7060.msg602811#msg602811 "The victims were, in the main, African migrants “among whom it was common to find minors ... "
Is it because the children are black their plight and the circumstances which enabled their transportation hasn't registered with you?
I don't see the relevance with a British child disappearing on holiday to Portugal?
There's no comparison between disappeared/trafficked children from under developed countries, like Africa, and a British child disappearing from Portugal. You need to compare like for like Brie.
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Do you think it’s harder or easier to abduct a child from a holiday apartment than from their home?
The stats show 0% of children from Britain disappear whilst holidaying anywhere in the world with their family.
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The stats show 0% of children from Britain disappear whilst holidaying anywhere in the world with their family.
Erm, what about Nora Quorin?
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Why doesn’t Ben Needham count? Sarah Payne was technically on holiday, as was Alesha McPhail.
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Attempted child abductions whilst on holiday
https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/uk/news/a555324/child-abduction-intercepted-cyprus-holiday-resort/
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Abducted whilst on holiday
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/crime/mum-sues-thomas-cook-over-child-abduction-kids-club-278793
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Caroline Dickinson was raped and murdered in her bed whilst on a school holiday in France.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/girl-murdered-on-school-trip-to-france-1329474.html
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Erm, what about Nora Quorin?
Body found which isn't the case with MM.
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Why doesn’t Ben Needham count? Sarah Payne was technically on holiday, as was Alesha McPhail.
BN was living in create at the time of his dissapearance.
SP and AP were visiting family in their home countries.
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Attempted child abductions whilst on holiday
https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/uk/news/a555324/child-abduction-intercepted-cyprus-holiday-resort/
Attempted allegedly.
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Abducted whilst on holiday
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/crime/mum-sues-thomas-cook-over-child-abduction-kids-club-278793
Came to no harm.
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Caroline Dickinson was raped and murdered in her bed whilst on a school holiday in France.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/girl-murdered-on-school-trip-to-france-1329474.html
Wasn't abducted and didn't disappear. Raped and murdered in her bed.
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I don't see the relevance with a British child disappearing on holiday to Portugal?
There's no comparison between disappeared/trafficked children from under developed countries, like Africa, and a British child disappearing from Portugal. You need to compare like for like Brie.
Sadly ... every year British and other nationals return from holiday as a result of accident without one or other of their children. Any criticism for them?
I am astounded you really don't appear to see how you are devaluing the lives of trafficked children because they are 'from under developed countries'.
I have never heard such patronising nonsense. There is every comparison with the trafficked child whoever they are or wherever they come from.
The routes and the contacts are all in place either to leave Africa for Europe or vice versa and there seems to be no doubt they were well used.
He fantasised to his friend about the use he could put his thirty foot Winnebago type vehicle to ... what if it was not a fantasy? https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2020/06/17/maddie-mccann-investigators-want-to-trace-movements-in-spain-of-winnebago-motor-home-german-suspect-christian-brueckner-owned/
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The stats show 0% of children from Britain disappear whilst holidaying anywhere in the world with their family.
what do you THINK that proves...it prove snothing apart that abductions are rare
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Wasn't abducted and didn't disappear. Raped and murdered in her bed.
I knew you’d dismiss every single example. These cases show that children can come to harm at the hand of strangers whilst on holiday, so why are they not relevant? You believe Madeleine was abducted by strangers anyway, so exactly what point are you trying to prove?
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Portugal features in the top 3 of the Global Peace Index for 2019. Other top performers: Iceland, NZ, Austria and Denmark. Worst performers: Somalia, Afghanistan, Syria, South Sudan, Yemen, Iraq.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Peace_Index
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Body found which isn't the case with MM.
she disappeared first, you said 0% of children on holiday disappear, you’re wrong.
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BN was living in create at the time of his dissapearance.
SP and AP were visiting family in their home countries.
They were away from their homes, ergo they were on holiday. Explain the difference between being on holiday with relatives and being on holiday in a resort as far as the possibility of being abducted and coming to harm at the hands of a stranger is concerned.
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Sadly ... every year British and other nationals return from holiday as a result of accident without one or other of their children. Any criticism for them?
I am astounded you really don't appear to see how you are devaluing the lives of trafficked children because they are 'from under developed countries'.
I have never heard such patronising nonsense. There is every comparison with the trafficked child whoever they are or wherever they come from.
The routes and the contacts are all in place either to leave Africa for Europe or vice versa and there seems to be no doubt they were well used.
He fantasised to his friend about the use he could put his thirty foot Winnebago type vehicle to ... what if it was not a fantasy? https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2020/06/17/maddie-mccann-investigators-want-to-trace-movements-in-spain-of-winnebago-motor-home-german-suspect-christian-brueckner-owned/
No comparison between abduction and accident other than they both begin with A!
Brie surely you can see children from under developed countries and/or countries that feature at the bottom of the GPI index will fare worse than those from developed countries in terms of risk of being abducted/trafficked?!
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she disappeared first, you said 0% of children on holiday disappear, you’re wrong.
If I'm wrong please identify a child disappearing on holiday whereby the child/body has still not been accounted for?
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They were away from their homes, ergo they were on holiday. Explain the difference between being on holiday with relatives and being on holiday in a resort as far as the possibility of being abducted and coming to harm at the hands of a stranger is concerned.
I thought we were comparing like for like? MM did not disappear from Glasgow or Liverpool whilst visiting her grandparents.
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what do you THINK that proves...it prove snothing apart that abductions are rare
I don't think it proves anything but it does show 0% of children from Britain disappear whilst holidaying anywhere in the world with their family.
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No comparison between abduction and accident other than they both begin with A!
Brie surely you can see children from under developed countries and/or countries that feature at the bottom of the GPI index will fare worse than those from developed countries in terms of risk of being abducted/trafficked?!
I see no difference between the abduction of children from wherever or whoever they may be. Obiously THE RIGHTS of the CHILD mean nothing to you.
Having neatly side stepped ... "We appear to have come full circle to Morocco again!" ... is there the slightest chance you will allow us to return to the topic.
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I don't think it proves anything but it does show 0% of children from Britain disappear whilst holidaying anywhere in the world with their family.
theres maddie and norah...both disappeared...but you are wrong...it does prove something...it proves abductions by starngers are rare
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theres maddie and norah...both disappeared...but you are wrong...it does prove something...it proves abductions by starngers are rare
OMG, the family!
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theres maddie and norah...both disappeared...but you are wrong...it does prove something...it proves abductions by starngers are rare
It isn’t thought that Norah was abducted.
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It isn’t thought that Norah was abducted.
I never said she was...disappeared
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I don't think it proves anything but it does show 0% of children from Britain disappear whilst holidaying anywhere in the world with their family.
how many vanish while unsupervised aged 3?? too
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If I'm wrong please identify a child disappearing on holiday whereby the child/body has still not been accounted for?
goalpost shifting
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I thought we were comparing like for like? MM did not disappear from Glasgow or Liverpool whilst visiting her grandparents.
Disappeared on holiday you said, they disappeared on holiday, what is the intrinsic difference in terms of likelihood of being abducted by a stranger?
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I don't think it proves anything but it does show 0% of children from Britain disappear whilst holidaying anywhere in the world with their family.
Then Madeleine did not disappear, your statistic proves it!
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how many have died in accidents whilst their parents dined nearby...none....its a pathetic argumnet
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I never said she was...disappeared
So it really isn’t relevant.
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So it really isn’t relevant.
Only as an answer to hollys question Re number of children disappeared... Otherwise no
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Only as an answer to hollys question Re number of children disappeared... Otherwise no
Good glad we got that sorted.
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Good glad we got that sorted.
It must be really important to you
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If I'm wrong please identify a child disappearing on holiday whereby the child/body has still not been accounted for?
Rene Haas?
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Rene Haas?
Doesn’t count, not British.
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well this isnt in the uk but 40 years ago this year here in australia baby azaria chamberlian vanished out of her family tent they never found her body its a totally diffrent case but yeah
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well this isnt in the uk but 40 years ago this year here in australia baby azaria chamberlian vanished out of her family tent they never found her body its a totally diffrent case but yeah
Doesn’t count, wasn’t British and I bet you still believe the mum did it anyway.
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how many have died in accidents whilst their parents dined nearby...none....its a pathetic argumnet
Probability... Possibility.... these are arguments you use on a daily basis to claim there's "evidence" of an abduction.
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Since the history of mass tourism from UK to Europe afaik MM is the British 'disappeared' child. No one before, during or since.
Families regularly jet off to locations that present a far greater risk of child abduction than Portugal/PDL eg South America/Mexico and yet afaik there are no known cases of British children disappearing in these places?
I don't know of another case anywhere in the world where a child has 'disappeared' on a family holiday?
What features of this case make it unprecedented? Context is very important imo.
If MM disappeared at the hands of organised criminals why only her?
No doubt that I shall get shouted down again, but I think it is her bloodline. From her family names on both Mother and fathers side, she is a pure blood Cannanite/ Phoenician it appears.
Some websites say that Jesus was a Cannanite and if he was, then so was his cousin John the Baptist. Also his uncle Joseph of Arimathea and no doubt other well known Biblical names. Some websites say that Jesus survived the Crucifiction and was taken by Joseph of A. to regain his strength in the cave that wealthy man Joseph had prepared for his own burial chamber.
From there he reputedly escaped and travelled to the south of France via several of the Greek /Turkish islands with his beloved wife Mary Magdeline and his desciples and cousin John the Baptist. It is said that Jesus and Mary produced children and that the Sinclairs, St Clares , the Lyells are direct line descendants.
Let me make it clear, I am not in the least religious, but I have found it incredibly interesting unearthing all these things. No way can I prove that they are true, but from all the articles on the internet, I am inclined to think they are. Seems the RC Church has reasons to keep this quiet. I was told that it disproved part of their reason for being, but I don't know how.
OK , so if they have Madeleine.
What do they want her for?
Some thoughts:
1) If a rich pure bred mans wife cannot conceive.
He is very proud of his heritage and does not want to lose the status nor the financial rewards it brings etc. He wants a pure bred son to keep the bloodline going. He is wanting to use Madeleine as a concubine.
2) Someone wants to breed a son who can be claimed to be the re-incarnation of Jesus/St John the Baptist. A new Saviour. A child who by Adulthood will have been groomed into the ways of deception (by Magick?) so winning acclaim.and status … and via these incredible wealth and the possibility of ruling the world (like the Illuminatii, it seems) as the hyper religious rush to follow him.
3) Someone wants a very pretty, bubbly and clever daughter of good birth. Madeleine has the right bloodline so is the 'right' choice
Please remember that I believe that I saw Madeleine in a video from 2012, so if kept for several years, she is very likely to be alive still. That video is with OG, so I cannot share.
I fully realise that I might be barking up the wrong tree.
Any of you got any alternative ideas, assuming Madeleine is still alive ?
Tin hat on (&^&
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Deleted. Too late, info already given
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I see no difference between the abduction of children from wherever or whoever they may be. Obiously THE RIGHTS of the CHILD mean nothing to you.
Having neatly side stepped ... "We appear to have come full circle to Morocco again!" ... is there the slightest chance you will allow us to return to the topic.
You might see no difference Brie but that's not how law enforcement around the world views it. Some children/countries are at much greater risk than others.
Morroco doesn't have any history of trafficking children from developed countries:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_Morocco
Organised crime is just that and it works on the same principles as lawful entities with risk and reward featuring strongly. Criminal networks will not to look to traffic children from developed countries as the risks are too high. They know governments and law enforcement from those countries will be hot on their tails unlike under developed countries.
Can you name a single child born in a developed country to parents also born in a developed country trafficked elsewhere?
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I'm sceptical about the idea that she may have been trafficked to Morocco as well.
I'm to work out how much of the Mail interview with CB's former friend may be accurate.
This bit, at least, seems a bit iffy, as if there might have been key words to get attention, either by said friend or by the Mail:
'He was always bragging about making money. He even talked about selling kids maybe to Morocco, and I think he probably sold Maddie to someone – maybe a sex ring.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8445183/I-know-did-Christian-Brueckners-friend-says-German-guilty-taking-Madeleine-McCann.html
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No doubt that I shall get shouted down again, but I think it is her bloodline. From her family names on both Mother and fathers side, she is a pure blood Cannanite/ Phoenician it appears.
Some websites say that Jesus was a Cannanite and if he was, then so was his cousin John the Baptist. Also his uncle Joseph of Arimathea and no doubt other well known Biblical names. Some websites say that Jesus survived the Crucifiction and was taken by Joseph of A. to regain his strength in the cave that wealthy man Joseph had prepared for his own burial chamber.
From there he reputedly escaped and travelled to the south of France via several of the Greek /Turkish islands with his beloved wife Mary Magdeline and his desciples and cousin John the Baptist. It is said that Jesus and Mary produced children and that the Sinclairs, St Clares , the Lyells are direct line descendants.
Let me make it clear, I am not in the least religious, but I have found it incredibly interesting unearthing all these things. No way can I prove that they are true, but from all the articles on the internet, I am inclined to think they are. Seems the RC Church has reasons to keep this quiet. I was told that it disproved part of their reason for being, but I don't know how.
OK , so if they have Madeleine.
What do they want her for?
Some thoughts:
1) If a rich pure bred mans wife cannot conceive.
He is very proud of his heritage and does not want to lose the status nor the financial rewards it brings etc. He wants a pure bred son to keep the bloodline going. He is wanting to use Madeleine as a concubine.
2) Someone wants to breed a son who can be claimed to be the re-incarnation of Jesus/St John the Baptist. A new Saviour. A child who by Adulthood will have been groomed into the ways of deception (by Magick?) so winning acclaim.and status … and via these incredible wealth and the possibility of ruling the world (like the Illuminatii, it seems) as the hyper religious rush to follow him.
3) Someone wants a very pretty, bubbly and clever daughter of good birth. Madeleine has the right bloodline so is the 'right' choice
Please remember that I believe that I saw Madeleine in a video from 2012, so if kept for several years, she is very likely to be alive still. That video is with OG, so I cannot share.
I fully realise that I might be barking up the wrong tree.
Any of you got any alternative ideas, assuming Madeleine is still alive ?
Tin hat on (&^&
I think it all makes sense now.
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I'm sceptical about the idea that she may have been trafficked to Morocco as well.
I'm to work out how much of the Mail interview with CB's former friend may be accurate.
This bit, at least, seems a bit iffy, as if there might have been key words to get attention, either by said friend or by the Mail:
'He was always bragging about making money. He even talked about selling kids maybe to Morocco, and I think he probably sold Maddie to someone – maybe a sex ring.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8445183/I-know-did-Christian-Brueckners-friend-says-German-guilty-taking-Madeleine-McCann.html
I would say about as likely as the McCanns selling MM to pay off debts as reported in the British tabloids:
He told the court that the articles included a variety of false claims, including that the McCanns killed their daughter, sold her to pay off debts or were involved in "wife-swapping".
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-mccanns-idUKL1924898220080319
I'm surprised some here are falling for all this nonsense re CB especially when they have first hand knowledge of how the likes of the McCanns and RM were treated by the British tabloids.
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I would say about as likely as the McCanns selling MM to pay off debts as reported in the British tabloids:
He told the court that the articles included a variety of false claims, including that the McCanns killed their daughter, sold her to pay off debts or were involved in "wife-swapping".
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-mccanns-idUKL1924898220080319
I'm surprised some here are falling for all this nonsense re CB especially when they have first hand knowledge of how the likes of the McCanns and RM were treated by the British tabloids.
Its a gift that keeps giving Holly.
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I would say about as likely as the McCanns selling MM to pay off debts as reported in the British tabloids:
He told the court that the articles included a variety of false claims, including that the McCanns killed their daughter, sold her to pay off debts or were involved in "wife-swapping".
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-mccanns-idUKL1924898220080319
I'm surprised some here are falling for all this nonsense re CB especially when they have first hand knowledge of how the likes of the McCanns and RM were treated by the British tabloids.
I dint think you are in
any position to talk about falling for nonsense...
CB is a totally believable suspect whilst yours us totally unbelievable.
No doubt part of your argument is no blonde German has, ever abducted a blonde 3 yr old
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I think he sold her for someone and had a share of the money. How do you account for this - Then, police again focused on Morocco in June, after GCHQ in Cheltenham picked up phone intercept messages in Arabic referring to "the little blonde girl", a German man, and a ferry from Tarifa in Spain. Bit of a coincidence don't you think? He knew about drug trafficking he would know about child trafficking.
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I think he sold her for someone and had a share of the money. How do you account for this - Then, police again focused on Morocco in June, after GCHQ in Cheltenham picked up phone intercept messages in Arabic referring to "the little blonde girl", a German man, and a ferry from Tarifa in Spain. Bit of a coincidence don't you think? He knew about drug trafficking he would know about child trafficking.
Not sure child traffickers need to supplement their income by stealing trinkets and old ladies handbags.
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I dint think you are in
any position to talk about falling for nonsense...
CB is a totally believable suspect whilst yours us totally unbelievable.
No doubt part of your argument is no blonde German has, ever abducted a blonde 3 yr old
You know the motive?
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I would say about as likely as the McCanns selling MM to pay off debts as reported in the British tabloids:
He told the court that the articles included a variety of false claims, including that the McCanns killed their daughter, sold her to pay off debts or were involved in "wife-swapping".
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-mccanns-idUKL1924898220080319
I'm surprised some here are falling for all this nonsense re CB especially when they have first hand knowledge of how the likes of the McCanns and RM were treated by the British tabloids.
I'm sceptical about the child trafficking to Morocco idea that his former friend mentioned. In other respects, I certainly find him to be a plausible lead to follow up on.
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Not sure child traffickers need to supplement their income by stealing trinkets and old ladies handbags.
I don't think the child traffickers would. That would be Christian B a good candidate for breaking into houses, someone they could use.
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Not sure child traffickers need to supplement their income by stealing trinkets and old ladies handbags.
Everyone has to start somewhere.
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I think he sold her for someone and had a share of the money. How do you account for this - Then, police again focused on Morocco in June, after GCHQ in Cheltenham picked up phone intercept messages in Arabic referring to "the little blonde girl", a German man, and a ferry from Tarifa in Spain. Bit of a coincidence don't you think? He knew about drug trafficking he would know about child trafficking.
Child trafficking and drug trafficking are completely different.
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I'm trying to remember the story about that woman who was axed to death and the Portuguese Police said it was suicide!!! Nasty way to kill yourself. I think she found something out about the traffickers. IMO
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I don't think the child traffickers would. That would be Christian B a good candidate for breaking into houses, someone they could use.
Arrhghhhh....this is.........what?
Just about anyone with some balls and a lollipop stick can break in to a house. It's not a sought-after specialism.
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Child trafficking and drug trafficking are completely different.
I know that. Though if you know about one you probably know about the other.
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Arrhghhhh....this is.........what?
Just about anyone with some balls and a lollipop stick can break in to a house. It's not a sought-after specialism.
He bragged about what a good burglar he was he stole thousands of pounds worth of property. Maybe his bragging got to the ears of the traffickers.
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Everyone has to start somewhere.
Hmmmm.....what, at the same time? One of the most lucrative criminal enterprises going, but I'll risk all that and swipe a mobile phone from a pub?
It's a non-starter. This animal was a serial opportunist, down and out bum, paedo who would rob / assault anything vulnerable. He's not a child trafficker and I mean that in all senses of the phrase - he doesn't appear on the supply chain.
He tried one medium duty drug run - really badly - he's an idiot and a compulsive recidivist.
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I'm trying to remember the story about that woman who was axed to death and the Portuguese Police said it was suicide!!! Nasty way to kill yourself. I think she found something out about the traffickers. IMO
Jacinta Rees? Not quite clear what happened in that case.
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He bragged about what a good burglar he was he stole thousands of pounds worth of property. Maybe his bragging got to the ears of the traffickers.
He's a really crap criminal - a brain donor and a sex case. They would spot this sack of **** a mile off.
He was living hand to mouth in a van. He's no criminal mastermind. He's a tool.
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You might see no difference Brie but that's not how law enforcement around the world views it. Some children/countries are at much greater risk than others.
Morroco doesn't have any history of trafficking children from developed countries:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_Morocco
Organised crime is just that and it works on the same principles as lawful entities with risk and reward featuring strongly. Criminal networks will not to look to traffic children from developed countries as the risks are too high. They know governments and law enforcement from those countries will be hot on their tails unlike under developed countries.
Can you name a single child born in a developed country to parents also born in a developed country trafficked elsewhere?
Madeleine McCann may have been kidnapped by slave traders and sold to a rich family, an ex-Scotland Yard detective has claimed.
The theory suggests Madeleine, who went missing in 2007, may have been smuggled to Africa via a ferry.
Gangs who operate in Mauritania, West Africa, reportedly sell children to rich Middle Eastern families.
“The Mauritania line is certainly a possibility and needs to be looked at,” Colin Sutton told the Mirror.
“If someone wanted to get a three-year-old child into Africa it’s the obvious route. The infrastructure and contacts for people smuggling are clearly there.”
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/madeleine-mccann-latest-kidnapped-slave-traders-rich-family-missing-scotland-yard-detective-colin-a7699511.html
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You know the motive?
I would say almost certainly sexual abuse
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I would say almost certainly sexual abuse
Based on what?
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Based on what?
Based on the fact that most stranger child abductions are motivated by paedophilia... And in this particular case we have a suspect with a history of paedophilia and burglary..
I think it's nonsense to regard the possibility of his involvement as nonsense
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I'm sceptical about the idea that she may have been trafficked to Morocco as well.
I'm to work out how much of the Mail interview with CB's former friend may be accurate.
This bit, at least, seems a bit iffy, as if there might have been key words to get attention, either by said friend or by the Mail:
'He was always bragging about making money. He even talked about selling kids maybe to Morocco, and I think he probably sold Maddie to someone – maybe a sex ring.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8445183/I-know-did-Christian-Brueckners-friend-says-German-guilty-taking-Madeleine-McCann.html
As in a court case, any evidence given is severely undermined if the witness has been paid for their story by a tabloid.
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Everyone has to start somewhere.
If only it could be worked out the egress from 5a.That'll be a noteworthy start.
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Jacinta Rees? Not quite clear what happened in that case.
Despite two coroner's reports to the contrary the Portuguese police decided that the blunt force trauma to her head and to her left arm, resulting in her death was accidental before determining it was suicide.
If memory serves me correctly the injuries were caused by an axe.
Snip
Crime theory
One theory about Jacinta's death was that she found out something that cost her life.
The area where she lived is a trafficking route from North Africa and the Middle East for the illegal trade in drugs - mostly hashish - and also in stolen children.
The village of Sao Bras de Alportel is 30km from the resort of Praia de Luz where British child Maddy McCann disappeared.
Her family said child smuggling was an issue Jacinta was concerned about and might have spoken up about.
"Jacinta may have stumbled across something," brother Cameron said.
"She left a note for someone saying she was leaving and she did not know how things would work out and asked that they forgive her, but the police construed it as a suicide note," he said.
"It wasn't a suicide note - she was scared of something.
https://www.news.com.au/national/jacinta-rees-murdered-covered-up-by-portugal-police/news-story/5d908a385cb28bbf63c5279d83668cee
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If only it could be worked out the egress from 5a.That'll be a noteworthy start.
There was a wooden front door ... there was an unlocked back door. Take your pick.
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If only it could be worked out the egress from 5a.That'll be a noteworthy start.
Window? What window?
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He's a really crap criminal - a brain donor and a sex case. They would spot this sack of **** a mile off.
He was living hand to mouth in a van. He's no criminal mastermind. He's a tool.
Who said he was a criminal mastermind? He knew how to burgle and not get caught didn't he? A perfect person to hire, a person with a huge ego who brags how good he is, an idiot who would do it for the money.
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He's a really crap criminal - a brain donor and a sex case. They would spot this sack of **** a mile off.
He was living hand to mouth in a van. He's no criminal mastermind. He's a tool.
Who said he was a criminal mastermind? He knew how to burgle and not get caught didn't he? A perfect person to hire, a person with a huge ego who brags how good he is, an idiot who would do it for the money.
Not get caught?
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Who said he was a criminal mastermind? He knew how to burgle and not get caught didn't he? A perfect person to hire, a person with a huge ego who brags how good he is, an idiot who would do it for the money.
How do they know he's a burglar if he didn't get caught ?
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Madeleine McCann may have been kidnapped by slave traders and sold to a rich family, an ex-Scotland Yard detective has claimed.
The theory suggests Madeleine, who went missing in 2007, may have been smuggled to Africa via a ferry.
Gangs who operate in Mauritania, West Africa, reportedly sell children to rich Middle Eastern families.
“The Mauritania line is certainly a possibility and needs to be looked at,” Colin Sutton told the Mirror.
“If someone wanted to get a three-year-old child into Africa it’s the obvious route. The infrastructure and contacts for people smuggling are clearly there.”
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/madeleine-mccann-latest-kidnapped-slave-traders-rich-family-missing-scotland-yard-detective-colin-a7699511.html
Ian Horrock's, former MET officer with 30 years experience, said the complete opposite:
Firstly, what are the options? The way I see it there are still principally four, and these remain unchanged.
1. That Madeleine either died accidentally, or was killed by her parents.
2. That Madeleine wandered out of the apartment and either became lost, or was taken by someone in the street.
3. That Madeleine was abducted by one or two predatory paedophiles, and she was assaulted and either died, or was killed.
4. That Madeleine was taken by a person or couple with the intention of keeping her, and raising her.
The talk of Madeleine being kidnapped by a paedophile ring, for a client in some distant place, or some of the even more farfetched theories are not worth discussion and equally are not credible. Should this have been the reason, sadly, there are many places throughout Europe and indeed the world where this is a far simpler task than in a busy holiday resort in Portugal.
Likewise the idea that a random burglar suddenly deciding to take a child instead of valuables is also I believe unlikely. There has recently been speculation that this is a possibility, although personally I do not believe this is what happened.
My belief is that it is either the third or fourth option, although I think that from looking at all the information available to me that the fourth is the most likely.
The thought that Kate and Gerry McCann had anything to do with the death of their daughter, whether being directly responsible, or covering it up is frankly preposterous. There is not one shred of credible evidence, either direct or otherwise to indicate that this is even a remote possibility.
I'm with Ian Horrock's on this one ?>)()<. Maybe I will email him my theory.
https://www.bgpglobalservices.com/what-happened-to-madeleine-mccann/amp/
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Ian Horrock's, former MET officer with 30 years experience, said the complete opposite:
Firstly, what are the options? The way I see it there are still principally four, and these remain unchanged.
1. That Madeleine either died accidentally, or was killed by her parents.
2. That Madeleine wandered out of the apartment and either became lost, or was taken by someone in the street.
3. That Madeleine was abducted by one or two predatory paedophiles, and she was assaulted and either died, or was killed.
4. That Madeleine was taken by a person or couple with the intention of keeping her, and raising her.
The talk of Madeleine being kidnapped by a paedophile ring, for a client in some distant place, or some of the even more farfetched theories are not worth discussion and equally are not credible. Should this have been the reason, sadly, there are many places throughout Europe and indeed the world where this is a far simpler task than in a busy holiday resort in Portugal.
Likewise the idea that a random burglar suddenly deciding to take a child instead of valuables is also I believe unlikely. There has recently been speculation that this is a possibility, although personally I do not believe this is what happened.
My belief is that it is either the third or fourth option, although I think that from looking at all the information available to me that the fourth is the most likely.
The thought that Kate and Gerry McCann had anything to do with the death of their daughter, whether being directly responsible, or covering it up is frankly preposterous. There is not one shred of credible evidence, either direct or otherwise to indicate that this is even a remote possibility.
I'm with Ian Horrock's on this one ?>)()< . Maybe I will email him my theory.
https://www.bgpglobalservices.com/what-happened-to-madeleine-mccann/amp/ (https://www.bgpglobalservices.com/what-happened-to-madeleine-mccann/amp/)
Not if he's also a kiddy-fiddler in his spare time.
Has your suspect been arrested yet? %56&
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Ian Horrock's, former MET officer with 30 years experience, said the complete opposite:
Firstly, what are the options? The way I see it there are still principally four, and these remain unchanged.
1. That Madeleine either died accidentally, or was killed by her parents.
2. That Madeleine wandered out of the apartment and either became lost, or was taken by someone in the street.
3. That Madeleine was abducted by one or two predatory paedophiles, and she was assaulted and either died, or was killed.
4. That Madeleine was taken by a person or couple with the intention of keeping her, and raising her.
The talk of Madeleine being kidnapped by a paedophile ring, for a client in some distant place, or some of the even more farfetched theories are not worth discussion and equally are not credible. Should this have been the reason, sadly, there are many places throughout Europe and indeed the world where this is a far simpler task than in a busy holiday resort in Portugal.
Likewise the idea that a random burglar suddenly deciding to take a child instead of valuables is also I believe unlikely. There has recently been speculation that this is a possibility, although personally I do not believe this is what happened.
My belief is that it is either the third or fourth option, although I think that from looking at all the information available to me that the fourth is the most likely.
The thought that Kate and Gerry McCann had anything to do with the death of their daughter, whether being directly responsible, or covering it up is frankly preposterous. There is not one shred of credible evidence, either direct or otherwise to indicate that this is even a remote possibility.
I'm with Ian Horrock's on this one ?>)()<. Maybe I will email him my theory.
https://www.bgpglobalservices.com/what-happened-to-madeleine-mccann/amp/
he wrote this 7 years ago....I would think hes changed his mind now CB is on the scene
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How do they know he's a burglar if he didn't get caught ?
Most who knew him said he stole from the apartments.
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I accept most of what he wrote, but I haven't discounted this one:
"Likewise the idea that a random burglar suddenly deciding to take a child instead of valuables is also I believe unlikely. There has recently been speculation that this is a possibility, although personally I do not believe this is what happened."
It might not be frequent, but I see no reason to exclude the possibility.
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I accept most of what he wrote, but I haven't discounted this one:
"Likewise the idea that a random burglar suddenly deciding to take a child instead of valuables is also I believe unlikely. There has recently been speculation that this is a possibility, although personally I do not believe this is what happened."
It might not be frequent, but I see no reason to exclude the possibility.
he wrote this 7 years ago....I would think hes changed his mind now CB is on the scene
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Window? What window?
Playschool gave a choice.
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Ian Horrock's, former MET officer with 30 years experience, said the complete opposite:
Firstly, what are the options? The way I see it there are still principally four, and these remain unchanged.
1. That Madeleine either died accidentally, or was killed by her parents.
2. That Madeleine wandered out of the apartment and either became lost, or was taken by someone in the street.
3. That Madeleine was abducted by one or two predatory paedophiles, and she was assaulted and either died, or was killed.
4. That Madeleine was taken by a person or couple with the intention of keeping her, and raising her.
The talk of Madeleine being kidnapped by a paedophile ring, for a client in some distant place, or some of the even more farfetched theories are not worth discussion and equally are not credible. Should this have been the reason, sadly, there are many places throughout Europe and indeed the world where this is a far simpler task than in a busy holiday resort in Portugal.
Likewise the idea that a random burglar suddenly deciding to take a child instead of valuables is also I believe unlikely. There has recently been speculation that this is a possibility, although personally I do not believe this is what happened.
My belief is that it is either the third or fourth option, although I think that from looking at all the information available to me that the fourth is the most likely.
The thought that Kate and Gerry McCann had anything to do with the death of their daughter, whether being directly responsible, or covering it up is frankly preposterous. There is not one shred of credible evidence, either direct or otherwise to indicate that this is even a remote possibility.
I'm with Ian Horrock's on this one ?>)()<. Maybe I will email him my theory.
https://www.bgpglobalservices.com/what-happened-to-madeleine-mccann/amp/
Might as well ... he can add it to his list ... he seems to have quite a few opinions to offer. But he at least is aware of the human trafficking prevalent in Europe and North Africa which seems to be beyond the ken of sceptics.
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he wrote this 7 years ago....I would think hes changed his mind now CB is on the scene
I very much think he probably has taken recent events into his consideration.
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I accept most of what he wrote, but I haven't discounted this one:
"Likewise the idea that a random burglar suddenly deciding to take a child instead of valuables is also I believe unlikely. There has recently been speculation that this is a possibility, although personally I do not believe this is what happened."
It might not be frequent, but I see no reason to exclude the possibility.
I believe he was good at his job and if Brueckner's profile was relevant enough to twitch the antennae of the German and the Brit police ... I think he might have cottoned on.
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He's a really crap criminal - a brain donor and a sex case. They would spot this sack of **** a mile off.
He was living hand to mouth in a van. He's no criminal mastermind. He's a tool.
Yep, agreed, seems that he is the tool that they, the masterminds, paid handsomely
But assuming he did it, he thoroughly planned his attack, it seems
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Yep, agreed, seems that he is the tool that they, the masterminds, paid handsomely
But assuming he did it, he thoroughly planned his attack, it seems
Indeed. If he did, then he showed a level of Machiavellian sophistication that was hitherto absent.
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The so-called Bouchra Bin Aisa photo in Morocco and the discrepancies associated with it way back, perhaps need another close look. I know Sadie has comprehensively researched this and provided loads of information. Some were questioning the speed at which the picture has been discounted as being Madeleine. The girl’s birth certificate indicates her as a 64-year-old woman. In the original photo the girl’s legs were tucked under the cloth on the wo/man’s back, the father of Bouchra claiming all his children are blonde, yet the girl just ahead is dark, the original photo shows a blonde and fair-skinned child while Bouchra was fair but olive-skinned. The picture was taken 2 km from their home, yet they had loads of lugguage and a wheel barrow loaded with goods.
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‘Soon after her disappearance a traveller told Crimestoppers they saw a girl resembling Madeleine on the Tarifa-Tangier ferry in a dark blue Portuguese-registered saloon car on May 7, four days after she went missing’.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-was-snatched-rich-10282798
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The so-called Bouchra Bin Aisa photo in Morocco and the discrepancies associated with it way back, perhaps need another close look. I know Sadie has comprehensively researched this and provided loads of information. Some were questioning the speed at which the picture has been discounted as being Madeleine. The girl’s birth certificate indicates her as a 64-year-old woman. In the original photo the girl’s legs were tucked under the cloth on the wo/man’s back, the father of Bouchra claiming all his children are blonde, yet the girl just ahead is dark, the original photo shows a blonde and fair-skinned child while Bouchra was fair but olive-skinned. The picture was taken 2 km from their home, yet they had loads of lugguage and a wheel barrow loaded with goods.
Madeleine’s own parents discounted the photograph. Doesn’t even that give you pause for thought ?
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Madeleine’s own parents discounted the photograph. Doesn’t even that give you pause for thought ?
Which one: the original or the other one?
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Which one: the original or the other one?
The original I presume or are you also a purveyor of conspiracy theories ?
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Which one: the original or the other one?
There are just so many anomalies about the little girl touted as the child in the tourist photo that one wonders why those who have pored for years over the poolside 'last photograph' have accepted 'Baby Bushra' hook line and sinker.
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There are just so many anomalies about the little girl touted as the child in the tourist photo that one wonders why those who have pored for years over the poolside 'last photograph' have accepted 'Baby Bushra' hook line and sinker.
Because her parents said that it wasn’t Madeleine ? Are they wrong ?
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The original I presume or are you also a purveyor of conspiracy theories ?
I consider myself a rational skeptic.
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I consider myself a rational skeptic.
…. and a very clever and thorough one. 8@??)(
How I wish you could share certain things that you have worked out, but better probably not to.
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I consider myself a rational skeptic.
So tell me about these two photographs and how the parents could have been shown any one other than the original ?
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One thing I remember about Morocco and it clearly stayed in my mind.
I remember the news in May 2007 where the news reporter ( I think this was ITV News) actually went to Morocco and was standing next to the petrol station in Marrakech where Mari O said she saw a little girl.
What caught my eye were white lorries parked behind the reporter. They were parked opposite the petrol station. They all had a logo on them and seemed to be new and shiny.
I then remembered the same style lorry being parked next to the 5A apartment where Madeleine was missing from.
I connected the two and I sent this to the police at the time. I then received an email from the police thanking me for these.
These also can be seen at the beginning of the video in this article.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8737819/madeleine-mccann-morocco-petrol-station-sighting/
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One thing I remember about Morocco and it clearly stayed in my mind.
I remember the news in May 2007 where the news reporter ( I think this was ITV News) actually went to Morocco and was standing next to the petrol station in Marrakech where Mari O said she saw a little girl.
What caught my eye were white lorries parked behind the reporter. They were parked opposite the petrol station. They all had a logo on them and seemed to be new and shiny.
I then remembered the same style lorry being parked next to the 5A apartment where Madeleine was missing from.
I connected the two and I sent this to the police at the time. I then received an email from the police thanking me for these.
These also can be seen at the beginning of the video in this article.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8737819/madeleine-mccann-morocco-petrol-station-sighting/
When did you see the lorry next to 5a ? The next day...week..month ? If not on the day how can it possibly be relevant ?
I feel so sorry for the police having to plough through all this well meaning but ultimately useless information. It must have taken up so much of their time, time that could have been used finding real evidence.
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When did you see the lorry next to 5a ? The next day...week..month ? If not on the day how can it possibly be relevant ?
I feel so sorry for the police having to plough through all this well meaning but ultimately useless information. It must have taken up so much of their time, time that could have been used finding real evidence.
If was on the photos and google view. It looked to me like that specific lorry parked there on a regular basis. It made me wonder if there was a regular drive from there to Morroco and back, this was the point I wanted to make.
Some posters back then suggested it could be the news crew lorry but it was also visible on Google maps which were filmed before Madeleine went missing. I checked it now but the new google maps are from 2009, the maps before were from 2007
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If was on the photos and google view. It looked to me like that specific lorry parked there on a regular basis. It made me wonder if there was a regular drive from there to Morroco and back, this was the point I wanted to make.
Some posters back then suggested it could be the news crew lorry but it was also visible on Google maps which were filmed before Madeleine went missing. I checked it now but the new google maps are from 2009, the maps before were from 2007
Was the lorry there on the 3rd of May 2007 ?
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Was the lorry there on the 3rd of May 2007 ?
How can I possibly know that? This is not the point at all. The point was to find out whether there was regular lorry traffic between Africa ( Morocco ) and PDL.
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How can I possibly know that? This is not the point at all. The point was to find out whether there was regular lorry traffic between Africa ( Morocco ) and PDL.
Truckloads of kids or drugs?
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How can I possibly know that? This is not the point at all. The point was to find out whether there was regular lorry traffic between Africa ( Morocco ) and PDL.
Hi Vixte, what was the logo on the lorry?
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How can I possibly know that? This is not the point at all. The point was to find out whether there was regular lorry traffic between Africa ( Morocco ) and PDL.
There are no ferry services between Portugal and Morocco.
Any lorry would need to go via Algerciras , so I can't really see any regular traffic there from PDL.
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If was on the photos and google view. It looked to me like that specific lorry parked there on a regular basis. It made me wonder if there was a regular drive from there to Morroco and back, this was the point I wanted to make.
Some posters back then suggested it could be the news crew lorry but it was also visible on Google maps which were filmed before Madeleine went missing. I checked it now but the new google maps are from 2009, the maps before were from 2007
You can see previous iterations of Google Maps, so I'm told.
The van's logo said 'Supermeerkat', whatever that means.
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You can see previous iterations of Google Maps, so I'm told.
The van's logo said 'Supermeerkat', whatever that means.
Maybe there's an import company in PDL that specialises in over-sized Mongooses.
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Maybe there's an import company in PDL that specialises in over-sized Mongooses.
Could be. But a van parking in the same spot at roughly the same time every week generally means one thing.
Unless, of course, these Moroccan people traffickers stick to a very rigid and incongruously transparent method.
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Could be. But a van parking in the same spot at roughly the same time every week generally means one thing.
Unless, of course, these Moroccan people traffickers stick to a very rigid and incongruously transparent method.
Suggests to me that the driver is staying somewhere overnight, having done a weekly delivery to a store. or some such.
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Suggests to me that the driver is staying somewhere overnight, having done a weekly delivery to a store. or some such.
Hotels need constant servicing. There's 3 dozen explanations, including 'Mobile Hairdresser', before we get to 'Moroccan People Traffickers'
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https://www.pinterest.com.mx/pin/234890936794215529/ problem solved - a convenience store
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https://www.pinterest.com.mx/pin/234890936794215529/ problem solved - a convenience store
13 years, innumerable visits to Luz and Tangier, scouring the streets, poring over maps, databases, delivery schedules, shipping manifests, missing persons reports, following up leads, day after day, week after exhausting week.....and you find the solution with 3 minutes on Google? Danie, is that you?
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I like bursting kids balloons as well @)(++(*
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I like bursting kids balloons as well @)(++(*
What a fibber you are. I hope.
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One thing I remember about Morocco and it clearly stayed in my mind.
I remember the news in May 2007 where the news reporter ( I think this was ITV News) actually went to Morocco and was standing next to the petrol station in Marrakech where Mari O said she saw a little girl.
What caught my eye were white lorries parked behind the reporter. They were parked opposite the petrol station. They all had a logo on them and seemed to be new and shiny.
I then remembered the same style lorry being parked next to the 5A apartment where Madeleine was missing from.
I connected the two and I sent this to the police at the time. I then received an email from the police thanking me for these.
These also can be seen at the beginning of the video in this article.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8737819/madeleine-mccann-morocco-petrol-station-sighting/
Well done Vixte you did the right thing sending it to the Police. Whether it meant anything or not, you let the Police be the judge of that.
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13 years, innumerable visits to Luz and Tangier, scouring the streets, poring over maps, databases, delivery schedules, shipping manifests, missing persons reports, following up leads, day after day, week after exhausting week.....and you find the solution with 3 minutes on Google? Danie, is that you?
A twee response Mr General, Sir.
You have no idea just how much time and intellectual energy Vixte will have spent finding that connection.
Now a van that could possibly be used for people trafficking/drug running could be called WHAT? What might its motif on the side be?
How's about TRAFFICKERS/ DRUG RUNNERS INC. ?
Now something as mundane as SUPERMARKEET, if that is what it says …. seems a very good disguise to me.
We all know that what VIXTE has noticed could have no bearing on the case, but then again, it could.
Well done VIXTE for sending it in. You got a response from SY so they must have liked it
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Here is another ‘Meerkat’ business.
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How can I possibly know that? This is not the point at all. The point was to find out whether there was regular lorry traffic between Africa ( Morocco ) and PDL.
Every time I think that this case can’t get more ridiculous you supporters prove me wrong.
Even if there was regular lorry traffic between Morocco and PDL, which I very much doubt being a small village, you’d have to start by proving that one of those lorries was in PDL on the 3rd on May. Is there anything to suggest that’s true ?
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Every time I think that this case can’t get more ridiculous you supporters prove me wrong.
Even if there was regular lorry traffic between Morocco and PDL, which I very much doubt being a small village, you’d have to start by proving that one of those lorries was in PDL on the 3rd on May. Is there anything to suggest that’s true ?
What matters is whether there was an abduction at all; it's not, in my opinion, a proven fact. Only those who think it is can amuse themselves (and others) by speculating how, why and by whom it was done.
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What matters is whether there was an abduction at all; it's not, in my opinion, a proven fact. Only those who think it is can amuse themselves (and others) by speculating how, why and by whom it was done.
It’s only “not a proven fact” in the same way that abduction and murder are not “proven facts” in the Lamplugh or Lawrence cases.
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What matters is whether there was an abduction at all; it's not, in my opinion, a proven fact. Only those who think it is can amuse themselves (and others) by speculating how, why and by whom it was done.
So Madeleine did not disappear from her holiday on May3 2007. That's brilliant news. Where is she then?
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It’s only “not a proven fact” in the same way that abduction and murder are not “proven facts” in the Lamplugh or Lawrence cases.
Sorry, but they're not the same at all. When adults disappear there's hard evidence such as untouched bank accounts to suggest what happened to them. There's no such evidence when a small child disappears.
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What matters is whether there was an abduction at all; it's not, in my opinion, a proven fact. Only those who think it is can amuse themselves (and others) by speculating how, why and by whom it was done.
It's your opinion and you don't explain what you mean by a proven fact so in a way it's a meaningless opinion
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So Madeleine did not disappear from her holiday on May3 2007. That's brilliant news. Where is she then?
When a child disappears rare stranger abduction is not the default scenario until proven otherwise.
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Sorry, but they're not the same at all. When adults disappear there's hard evidence such as untouched bank accounts to suggest what happened to them. There's no such evidence when a small child disappears.
. What a gross assumption on your part! Perhaps their secret lovers who they ran away with were extremely rich and leaving the bank accounts untouched was all just a ruse to make the authorities believe they’d been abducted and murdered! You never thought of that did you?!
OK, Etan Patz then. Abduction and murder is not a proven fact, in much the same way as it is not a proven fsct in that case. No doubt you will find some pp excuse why that example won’t do either.
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When a child disappears rare stranger abduction is not the default scenario until proven otherwise.
I would say it has been proven but as I've said many times posters say proven but don't define what they mean
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Sorry, but they're not the same at all. When adults disappear there's hard evidence such as untouched bank accounts to suggest what happened to them. There's no such evidence when a small child disappears.
There still evidence and again it depends what you mean by proven. I could say it hasnt been proven that cipriano was responsible for joannas death.
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Sorry, but they're not the same at all. When adults disappear there's hard evidence such as untouched bank accounts to suggest what happened to them. There's no such evidence when a small child disappears.
Exactly. There is no such evidence that Madeleine is dead.
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Exactly. There is no such evidence that Madeleine is dead.
We don’t yet know what evidence the Germans are keeping to themselves, but they seem to be suggesting it is compelling.
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When a child disappears rare stranger abduction is not the default scenario until proven otherwise.
It seems that obviously having ruled out other options educated opinion appears to have settled on Madeleine's abduction and the Germans are presently seeking evidence against a prime suspect.
When the Portuguese reopened Madeleine's case in 2013 it was to investigate a man who might have been a disgruntled former employee but was certainly a drug user and a petty criminal.
When the Brits opened their case it was to investigate burglars and sex offenders breaking into homes and assaulting little girls.
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It seems that obviously having ruled out other options educated opinion appears to have settled on Madeleine's abduction and the Germans are presently seeking evidence against a prime suspect.
When the Portuguese reopened Madeleine's case in 2013 it was to investigate a man who might have been a disgruntled former employee but was certainly a drug user and a petty criminal.
When the Brits opened their case it was to investigate burglars and sex offenders breaking into homes and assaulting little girls.
Ive posted many times there are really only 3 basic scenarios...the police have obviously ruled out 2 which makes abduction by far the most likeley
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Exactly. There is no such evidence that Madeleine is dead.
Or that she was abducted.
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Exactly. There is no such evidence that Madeleine is dead.
Semantics I know, but the opposite is also a moot point.
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Or that she was abducted.
There is evidence.. I would say proven on the balance of possibilities
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There is evidence.. I would say proven on the balance of possibilities
That only works in a court of law, much to the disappointment of some, J Forum is opinion only.
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That only works in a court of law, much to the disappointment of some, J Forum is opinion only.
A court of law is driven evidence wise mainly by opinion.. Same as here
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There is evidence.. I would say proven on the balance of possibilities
Would you care to share it with us?
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We don’t yet know what evidence the Germans are keeping to themselves, but they seem to be suggesting it is compelling.
Seem to be suggesting. Haven't we all been there before?
They've got about six months before his full sentence is up and I think they are just hoping that something will turn up.
I have no desire to defend this man, but I would be a hypocrite if I didn't defend his presumption of innocence after I have fought for so long for the same presumption for The McCanns.
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Would you care to share it with us?
I certainly would...but you need to answer one question so I can...Ive tried before.
What do you think is the probability that the parents are involved in a cover up of an accidental death
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Or that she was abducted.
So what do you think The McCanns did with her?
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Semantics I know, but the opposite is also a moot point.
Nothing wrong with semantics, so long as we know what we are doing.
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A court of law is driven evidence wise mainly by opinion.. Same as here
They have a higher burden of proof in a criminal court - beyond reasonable doubt... not balance of probabilities.
Also forum speculation over media reports and public Police files would not prove any criminal case beyond reasonable doubt if tested in court.
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Its very noticable taha sceptics say that thers no evidence of abduction but don't want to accept the idea that maddie may be alive.
There is evidence of abduction and evidence that Maddie is dead. Neither are proven facts but sceptics seem to have no problem with the latter...only the former
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Or that she was abducted.
Rubbish.
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Seem to be suggesting. Haven't we all been there before?
They've got about six months before his full sentence is up and I think they are just hoping that something will turn up.
I have no desire to defend this man, but I would be a hypocrite if I didn't defend his presumption of innocence after I have fought for so long for the same presumption for The McCanns.
I defend the right of the German police to be presumed not completely incompetent and /or liars until proven otherwise.
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Seem to be suggesting. Haven't we all been there before?
They've got about six months before his full sentence is up and I think they are just hoping that something will turn up.
I have no desire to defend this man, but I would be a hypocrite if I didn't defend his presumption of innocence after I have fought for so long for the same presumption for The McCanns.
Whats going on ? I find myself agreeing with you.
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Sorry, but we are getting very much Off Topic now.