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Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: amaraltheofficeboy on April 07, 2013, 06:31:54 PM
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(http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww159/Sashamorsal/SofiaAmaralGoncalo.jpg)
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(http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww159/Sashamorsal/SofiaAmaralGoncalo.jpg)
That photo was taken before her face lift. Can we have a more up to date one, please?
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Does this thread have any relevance to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann or is it just a silly joke at the expense of this couple?
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Does this thread have any relevance to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann or is it just a silly joke at the expense of this couple?
Can't see the relevance either
Ad hominems add nothing to debate
They undermine debate
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It is a silly joke that the co-ordinator (office boy) had anything to do with the investigation.
His job was to to co-ordinate the information coming in and maybe to advise the investigating officers as to the content.
His job was not to offer opinion or write a book about his theory.
Why does this forum refer to him as somebody important?
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The ONLY reason that amaral is important is because he wrote a book.
Apart from that his input to the case was minimal and from his book, flawed.
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May I add my thoughts to the mix? I believe that Goncalo Amaral did not ever meet or interview Kate and Gerry McCann .... so how come he wrote a book without ever actually meeting them. Does this detract from the credibility of his book? I think that it does. Thoughts and opinions from the Forum are very welcome!
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The ONLY reason that amaral is important is because he wrote a book.
Apart from that his input to the case was minimal and from his book, flawed.
This is true.
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He is about as important as bennett was - but yet there are people who hang onto his every false word - just like they did with bennett.
Why mess with words?
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The ONLY reason that amaral is important is because he wrote a book.
Apart from that his input to the case was minimal and from his book, flawed.
Hello, see my post above. It is my opinion that his book has no credibility. Please feel free to discuss. For the record, I think that his cashing in on this tragedy with a book is just not cricket.
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It wasn't his job to meet with or interview or even pass opinion about the Mccanns.
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It's got to the stage where he was pretending to call in NASA for God's sake - and people are actually discussing it!
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The ONLY reason that amaral is important is because he wrote a book.
Apart from that his input to the case was minimal and from his book, flawed.
Maybe so and valid opinion
But calling Amaral an 'office boy' along with a photo of him and his partner - does not progress debate.
Boringly familiar - certain quarters - very early on mocked Philomena for her appearance and Brunty and Clarence and Murat and Malinka - ad nauseam (the fully exonerated chap in the Bristol murder case got the same vile treatment for having a dodgy haircut and for speaking posh) sheeeeeesh
I'm interested in all of these people's thoughts and utterances - NOT in what they look like in a picture on any given day.
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I was introducing myself
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It is a silly joke that the co-ordinator (office boy) had anything to do with the investigation.
His job was to to co-ordinate the information coming in and maybe to advise the investigating officers as to the content.
His job was not to offer opinion or write a book about his theory.
Why does this forum refer to him as somebody important?
Thanks for the reply.
Now I understand clearly the point you are making.
I don't think the forum as a whole considers him important though, perhaps certain posters do,
But, for example, my own opinion is that he has demonstrated a very poor grasp of the details of the case on many issues. His understanding of things has not been great. Even with all these limitations he, like Bennett, has made himself a focus for others to follow.
The reason I give any prominence to him is to expose the flaws in what he has written, to expose his lack of knowledge about the case and to highlight the fact that he is not a trustworthy individual (especially as a police officer). I would hope that others will not be attracted to the idea of hanging off every word of this man when they realise how limited his understanding is of the case and what kind of man he really is.
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It wasn't his job to meet with or interview or even pass opinion about the Mccanns.
Hello amaraltheofficeboy and thanks for your input. Perhaps I am getting a bit confused here... was he not the co-ordinator of the enquiry, I would expect him to at least have interviewed K + G McCann... but to be fair I am just going on how things would be in the UK. Maybe things are different in the PT Police system and the head honcho, as it were, does not have any need to meet/interview the arguidos?
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co-ordinator of the enquiry
NOT an investigator
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co-ordinator of the enquiry
NOT an investigator
ok thanks. May I add to the debate my opinion that his cashing in with a book about this tragedy was an absolute disgrace.
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It wasn't his job to form opinion, analyse DNA or forensic results - that was for the esperts - not him. So much has been distracted because of his personal non expert opinion.
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As the senior PJ officer on the team in whatever role I think it was only a matter of common decency that he should have at least introduced himself to the McCanns and spoken a few words with them (through a translator if necessary) about the loss of their child.
I cannot imagine any OIC in the UK neglecting to do that. It would be unthinkable in a missing child case which this was and is.
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Common decency OK - it was his choice.
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co-ordinator of the enquiry
NOT an investigator
So he just arranged for staff quotas and signed off overtime?
Is that what you are implying?
He was at the HEART of the investigation from May until October that year - why else did he seem fit to meet with Robert Murat on at least one occasion I know of?
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But in reality "let me introduce you to the filing clerk" - good and polite - but doesn't help.
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co-ordinator of the enquiry
NOT an investigator
ok thanks. May I add to the debate my opinion that his cashing in with a book about this tragedy was an absolute disgrace.
I agree wholeheartedly with that.
To a certain extent I can understand successful police releasing books about crimes they have solved.
But this man released his book while a child was still missing after he had been dismissed from the case for his own lack of professionalism.
He had no qualms about damaging the search for Madeleine with his book. That makes his writing it totally disgraceful.
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So he met Murat - and that solved the case?
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But in reality "let me introduce you to the filing clerk" - good and polite - but doesn't help.
I think your stressing of the "filing clerk role" is being stretched.
Whatever his role was, he was the senior Policia Judiciara officer directly involved in the case. As such decency should have ensured that he offered words of consolation to the family of the missing child the team he was co-ordinating was searching for.
Just my opinion but I think a valid one and a natural one.
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As the senior PJ officer on the team in whatever role I think it was only a matter of common decency that he should have at least introduced himself to the McCanns and spoken a few words with them (through a translator if necessary) about the loss of their child.
I cannot imagine any OIC in the UK neglecting to do that. It would be unthinkable in a missing child case which this was and is.
This is what I am struggling to understand, gilet. Again, to be fair, things may be run differently in PT. But I would think at least a senior Pj officer would at least have introduced himself to the family? That he has gone on to cash in on this tragedy by writing a book when he never even met K + G McCann just seems shocking to me.
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So he met Murat - and that solved the case?
Irrelevant - the case has not been solved as you probably know
Amaral however was not just an 'office boy' - if you believe that - you don't have the most basic understanding of what went on in the Algarve that time
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I don't think that words of consolation from somebody who believed they were somehow involved would have been "comfort"
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well if he wasn't an office boy - what was he?
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Can anyone give a proper specification for his post?
He must have been involved directly in cases if he was able to influence the Leonor Cipriano case and ended up with a criminal conviction for his trouble?
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Yes - to give a perspective as to the exact role that Amaral had.
He did not have a leading role.
He had a backroom job in the investigation.
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Amaral was actually the face of The PJ in the beginning, although I am not entirely sure why I got this impression, but it was him that The Media were following.
And it was him who cocked it up and got the sack.
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I have no idea of his role in Leonor Cipriano case (apart from his court conviction)
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I don't recall amaral at all - he was not a press spokesperson or anything.
Until he published his book.
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I don't remember him doing any interviews or being the voice of the PJ
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Gonçalo Amaral
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_p305OiLZRCU/SkD-se5ywYI/AAAAAAAAFYo/drGhbYVn4w0/s400/goncalo_in_suit.jpg)
For those of you who don’t know who he is, he was the senior Portuguese Police detective on duty when Dr Gerald McCann and Dr Kate McCann reported Madeleine missing at around 10.00pm on Thursday 3 May 2007.
After he and his team investigated the case for four months, they were driven to the conclusion that Madeleine had died in the McCanns’ apartment, and that the parents must have hidden her body. His men took both Dr Gerald McCann and Dr Kate McCann in for questioning on 7 and 8 September 2007. They were not, however, arrested. Two days later, on 10 September, the McCanns returned to England.
http://goncaloamaral.webs.com/
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his role was co-ordinator - not senior detective
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(he may have been a senior detective) but that was not his role
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It was Amaral's job to decide what should be followed up and how Officers under him should be deployed. He was also in charge of all of the information collected.
He was a Detective Inspector, not unlike a Leading Detective in a UK Case, so one presumers that he learned to detect somewhere on his way up.
It is foolish to presume that he was of no great importance, and this was a Myth put about by McCann detractors to explain why he never even so much met The McCanns.
I think he couldn't face them because he knew he was trying to fit them up. But that last bit is just my opinion.
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He was also apparently head of the regional Polícia Judiciária, not exactly an office boy.
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call him what you want - he didn't enter the matter until after he was removed from the case and wrote a book of his opinions.
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call him what you want - he didn't enter the matter until after he was removed from the case and wrote a book of his opinions.
I knew who he was before he was sacked. And what he looked like.
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It would be an interesting exercise to find quotes from amaral before he was taken off the case and wrote his book.
If he was so important in the investigation there must be plenty.
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Wasn't he in the papers or on TV at all before he wrote his book?
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There was an article about him being seen leaving a Bar for the second time that day, and then being driven some 200 yards to the Police Station.
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(http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww159/Sashamorsal/SofiaAmaralGoncalo.jpg)
come on don't be silly - no need for negative comments about his appearance
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There was an article about him being seen leaving a Bar for the second time that day, and then being driven some 200 yards to the Police Station.
pure lies and speculation - don't believe the papers
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I still think the role of Inspector Coordenador de Investigação Criminal is probably a bit more than teaboy or filing clerk.
From a careers page on a Portuguese education site.
http://www.educacao.te.pt/jovem/index.jsp?p=109&id=5316
Every day that passes increases the ability of the means used in crime, and crime in general. Consequently also grows the need for the existence of trained professionals to meet these new challenges. Nevertheless, demand is still greater than supply and good qualifications and fitness for the exercise of the function are prerequisites increasingly important for those wishing to pursue a career in the Judiciary Police inspector.
Career Criminal Investigation
When you finish the course (successfully), candidates qualify for the stage itself, which lasts for one year. After the probationary period (and having been deemed Fit for the function), the Inspector Trainee is named definitely Inspector.
Career Criminal Investigation, the Inspector may evolve through competition, to other categories of greater responsibility: Chief Inspector, Coordinator of Criminal Investigation; Superior Research Coordinator.
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"is probably a bit more than teaboy or filing clerk."
did he get a pay rise?
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The first statements I know of from Amaral are his angry responses immediately after he got himself thrown off the McCann case when he lashed out.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-485154/Madeleine-police-chief-sacked-attack-British-detectives.html
"Mr Amaral made his "angry and explosive" remarks to the Portuguese newspaper Diario de Noticias. He claimed: "The British police have only been working on that which the McCann couple want them to, and which is most convenient for them."
He said British police appeared to have forgotten that Mr and Mrs McCann remain suspects. He also repeated Portuguese claims that the couple were manipulating the inquiry.
"They (the English) have been investigating tip-offs and information created and worked upon by the McCanns," he added."
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cop-demoted-after-mccanns-outburst-510764
Cop demoted after McCanns outburst
3 Oct 2007 00:00
The bungling police chief running the Madeleine McCann probe was last night kicked off the case.
Gerry and Kate McCann (PA) Gerry and Kate McCann (PA)
Officials demoted boozy chief inspector Goncalo Amaral after he launched an astonishing public attack on parents Kate and Gerry and British detectives.
The 48-year-old accused the McCanns of manipulating the investigation and claimed police here are pandering to the family.
His outburst angered bosses who decided it was the final straw in a series of embarrassing blunders during the investigation to find missing four-year-old Madeleine.
A Policia Judiciaria spokesman said: "Goncalo Amaral has been removed from the DIC (Portugal's CID) in Portimao and all the cases it is dealing with.
"We cannot make any comment on the reasons for his dismissal. But he did not resign, he was removed."
The McCanns' spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: "We are aware of what's happened and simply cannot comment.
"However Kate and Gerry have consistently said they are willing to co-operate with Portuguese authorities and will continue to do so, regardless of who is in charge of the hunt for Madeleine."
A source close to the family added: "Things like this are frankly just a distraction, what they want is for people to concentrate on the search for Madeleine.
"The most important thing is that the inquiry is led by someone who can do a professional and good job and help them find their daughter."
Amaral accused doctors Kate and Gerry, from Rothley, Leics, of distracting the investigation. And he said of Leicestershire detectives: "British police have only worked on what the McCanns want them to work on, and which is most convenient for them.
"They have only investigated tips and information developed and worked on for the McCanns, forgetting the couple are suspects in the death of their daughter."
But a source close to the couple, both 39, said: "It's wrong. Leicestershire police are not doing anything at Gerry and Kate's behest. They are there for liaison."
Amaral was number three in the investigation but in charge of running it on a day-to-day basis from Portimao.
He works as little as four and a half hours a day and takes boozy three-hour lunches despite a mountain of Madeleine leads to investigate.
The inspector also vented his anger that Leicestershire police were following a wild tip emailed to Prince Charles's website.
It suggested a disgruntled maid at the Ocean Club complex in Praia da Luz where Madeleine vanished from on May 3 may have kidnapped her.
Amaral, who will be moved to Faro, ranted: "The lead has no credibility. This story about kidnapping for revenge is another lead worked on by the McCanns.
"Everything said by employees, current or former, has already been investigated by the Policia Judiciaria."
But the McCann family source said: "The lead was passed by Clarence House to the Met Police and they took it seriously because it was from a real woman and she had left the Ocean Club in bad circumstances."
Amaral has probed just two child murders in his 26-year career.
He is under investigation for allegedly helping cover up a police beating to extract a confession from Leonor Cipriano, 36, the mother of a missing girl.
She is serving 16 years for the murder of her eight-year-old daughter Joana, even though the body has never been found and she has retracted her statement.
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ya see - this important man and head honcho was never interviewed in relation to the case before he left the case.
I am sure that our Portuguese friends will point out my error in due course and provide links
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Personally, I don't understand the purpose of personal remarks about him.
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Amaral was actually the face of The PJ in the beginning, although I am not entirely sure why I got this impression, but it was him that The Media were following.
The spokesman (a function which does not seem to exist - or at least didn't), was Chief Inspector Olegário de Sousa.
As far as I'm aware, he was drafted in from elsewhere to help deal with the media.
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He was also apparently head of the regional Polícia Judiciária, not exactly an office boy.
Are you thinking of Encarnação (who died).
"...o diretor da PJ de Faro, Guilhermino Encarnação..."
http://sicnoticias.sapo.pt/pais/2011/05/22/mccann-elogiam-reavaliacao-do-desaparecimento-de-madeleine-e-esperam-novos-dados
I didn't follow who took over his function. If he'd been ill for some time before, he may have had a deputy or a substitute, but I've no idea who that was.
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Amaral was actually the face of The PJ in the beginning, although I am not entirely sure why I got this impression, but it was him that The Media were following.
The spokesman (a function which does not seem to exist - or at least didn't), was Chief Inspector Olegário de Sousa.
As far as I'm aware, he was drafted in from elsewhere to help deal with the media.
[/quote
The Press weren't following him backwards and forwards to the various Bars, or trying to get quotes out of him.
And I don't think The PJ ever released an Official Statement, did they? That all appears to have been done through the back door, and Sources Close To.
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He was also apparently head of the regional Polícia Judiciária, not exactly an office boy.
Are you thinking of Encarnação (who died).
"...o diretor da PJ de Faro, Guilhermino Encarnação..."
http://sicnoticias.sapo.pt/pais/2011/05/22/mccann-elogiam-reavaliacao-do-desaparecimento-de-madeleine-e-esperam-novos-dados
I didn't follow who took over his function. If he'd been ill for some time before, he may have had a deputy or a substitute, but I've no idea who that was.
According to some UK papers Goncalo Amaral held the position of head of the regional Policia Judiciaria
Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa and Goncalo Amaral, the head of the regional Policia Judiciaria, joined two other men at a speciality fish restaurant called Carvi a few minutes' walk from police headquarters.
Times of 6 June 2007 now behind a paywall but reported here, http://newsoutlines.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/madeleine-officers-defend-their-regular.html
Also reported in the book "Tracing Technologies: Prisoners' Views in the Era of Csi" By Helena Machado, Barbara Prainsack
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=bfh7_jEfeBMC&pg=RA1-PT44&lpg=RA1-PT44&dq=head+of+the+regional+Pol%C3%ADcia+Judici%C3%A1ria+goncalo+amaral&source=bl&ots=3lIdqtUQt3&sig=WpUTCPPOsDtwMcCXB4GUL9uDU5U&hl=en&sa=X&ei=KK9jUeKnIuOm0QXFlYGwDA&ved=0CGcQ6AEwCQ
Whether it was an accurate description of his position, I really do not know.
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Amaral was actually the face of The PJ in the beginning, although I am not entirely sure why I got this impression, but it was him that The Media were following.
The spokesman (a function which does not seem to exist - or at least didn't), was Chief Inspector Olegário de Sousa.
As far as I'm aware, he was drafted in from elsewhere to help deal with the media.
The Press weren't following him backwards and forwards to the various Bars, or trying to get quotes out of him.
And I don't think The PJ ever released an Official Statement, did they? That all appears to have been done through the back door, and Sources Close To.
I believe there were two people who either assumed or were given the role of spokesman.
Guilhermino da Encarnação gave an impromptu press conference on Saturday 5th May.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6632325.stm
after which Olegario da Sousa was appointed press spokesman for the PJ. He gave a small number of press conferences as well as an interview with the BBC I believe.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6667307.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6644615.stm
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His bio doesn't say he was regional director.
Gonçalo Amaral
Gonçalo de Sousa Amaral nasceu a 2 de Outubro de 1959 na aldeia de Torredeita, perto de Viseu. Cursou engenharia no ISEL e no IST. Em 1992/1997 cursou, no período nocturno, a Faculdade de Direito de Lisboa, tendo-se licenciado em Ciências Jurídicas e Criminais. Ingressou na Administração Pública em 1973, com 14 anos. Em Novembro de 1981 iniciou o curso de formação de agentes da Polícia Judiciária, tendo tomado posse em 1982 como Agente. Em 1997/1998 frequentou o curso de Subinspectores da PJ, sendo o primeiro classificado entre 100 alunos. Em 2000/2001 cumpriu o curso de Coordenadores da PJ. Exerceu funções em Lisboa, no Algarve e nos Açores. Durante anos perseguiu, com eficácia, com todo o tipo criminalidade violenta e organizada: furtos, roubos, homicídios, tráfico de estupefacientes. Teve uma carreira profissional impoluta, amplamente reconhecida por colegas e superiores hierárquicos, bem como por magistrados judiciais e do Ministério Público, por funcionários judiciais e advogados, com quem teve o prazer de lidar durante muitos anos. Tem como máxima que «a justiça se realiza em silêncio ». Foi Coordenador Operacional das investigações do "caso Maddie", entre 3 de Maio e 2 de Outubro de 2007, tendo nessa ocasião sido afastado da investigação, num acto inédito na história da Polícia Judiciária. Aposentou-se em 1 Julho de 2008, ao fim de 27 anos de carreira policial, a fim de readquirir a plenitude da sua liberdade de expressão sobre o caso que investigou e de contribuir, na medida do possível, para a descoberta da verdade material e a realização da justiça. Considera-se um beirão por nascença, lisboeta por migração e algarvio por adopção. É casado em segundas núpcias e tem 3 filhas.
http://www.wook.pt/authors/detail/id/47834