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Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 01:46:58 AM

Title: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 01:46:58 AM
I saw this new video pop up on YT and I think it must be fairly recent.  "Posted Oct 26, 2020"  and on the whole it seems a pretty balanced summary. 

Did it take 5 days to bring the tracker dogs to Praia da Luz?  Mentioned https://youtu.be/eBWsaJwBbxw?t=1007 more than 3/4 the way through.

Davel might have a bit to say about the Cadaver dogs. 

https://youtu.be/eBWsaJwBbxw  "Meet (most of!) the suspects in the Madeleine McCann case"

Not a bad job over all IMO.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 08:44:19 AM
IMO if the dogs were able to track Madeleine to the car park 5 days later she must have been walking in bare feet to leave skin cells on the ground.  I struggle to think molecules remain in the air all of that time.  They must be evaporating from something solid on the actual ground. 

Barefoot in the car park - that suggests to me she got out of bed and walked there. 
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: barrier on December 18, 2020, 08:46:19 AM
IMO if the dogs were able to track Madeleine to the car park 5 days later she must have been walking in bare feet to leave skin cells on the ground.  I struggle to think molecules remain in the air all of that time.  They must be evaporating from something solid on the actual ground. 

Barefoot in the car park - that suggests to me she got out of bed and walked there.

When ? whats the timescale for it to happen ?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: The General on December 18, 2020, 08:49:42 AM
I saw this new video pop up on YT and I think it must be fairly recent.  "Posted Oct 26, 2020"  and on the whole it seems a pretty balanced summary. 

Did it take 5 days to bring the tracker dogs to Praia da Luz?  Mentioned https://youtu.be/eBWsaJwBbxw?t=1007 more than 3/4 the way through.

Davel might have a bit to say about the Cadaver dogs. 

https://youtu.be/eBWsaJwBbxw  "Meet (most of!) the suspects in the Madeleine McCann case"

Not a bad job over all IMO.
Attention Supporters: Don't read the comments.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 18, 2020, 08:55:48 AM
Attention Supporters: Don't read the comments.
Nothing we haven't read a million times before.  Sceptics are nothing if not dully predictable.  It's like a Pavlovian reaction.  Mention "McCanns" and the online hate mob start barking about dogs.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: barrier on December 18, 2020, 08:58:51 AM
Attention Supporters: Don't read the comments.

When they do, there's a recent ruling in the appeal court to bear  in mind.

Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 09:00:02 AM
When ? whats the timescale for it to happen ?
Do you mean what time did she get out of bed? Well it could be before 9:30.   Matthew finds the bedroom door wider, so it may have been moved by Madeleie.  She could have been hiding in the apartment and dead scared by someone she doesn't recognise at night.  Sits there quietly until Mathew goes back to the Tapas Restaurant.

In my theory, Russell also checks the apartment and that makes Madeleine escape out the front door.  I'm sure they know she got out of the apartment on her own, but they just didn't know where she went after that.
But the snifffer dogs even 5 days later could tell she went towards the Tapas Restaurant and then toward the car park.   That tells me she was unable to open the door to the Tapas area.
Russell gets back to the table just moments before Kate does her check.  So IMO timescale is 9:45 - 9:50 or so.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 09:00:22 AM
I saw this new video pop up on YT and I think it must be fairly recent.  "Posted Oct 26, 2020"  and on the whole it seems a pretty balanced summary. 

Did it take 5 days to bring the tracker dogs to Praia da Luz?  Mentioned https://youtu.be/eBWsaJwBbxw?t=1007 more than 3/4 the way through.

Davel might have a bit to say about the Cadaver dogs. 

https://youtu.be/eBWsaJwBbxw  "Meet (most of!) the suspects in the Madeleine McCann case"

Not a bad job over all IMO.

re the dogs...She starts by saying the dogs had helped solve 200 cases...which of course is lies....but sceptics want to beleive it.

Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 09:01:40 AM
Attention Supporters: Don't read the comments.
You mean the comments on the Youtube video. Look if we get the answer I'll post something there.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: barrier on December 18, 2020, 09:02:28 AM
Do you mean what time did she get out of bed? Well it could be before 9:30.   Matthew finds the bedroom door wider, so it may have been moved by Madeleie.  She could have been hiding in the apartment and dead scared by someone she doesn't recognise at night.  Sits there quietly until Mathew goes back to the Tapas Restaurant.

In my theory, Russell also checks the apartment and that makes Madeleine escape out the front door.  I'm sure they know she got out of the apartment on her own, but they just didn't know where she went after that.
But the snifffer dogs even 5 days later could tell she went towards the Tapas Restaurant and then toward the car park.   That tells me she was unable to open the door to the Tapas area.
Russell gets back to the table just moments before Kate does her check.  So IMO timescale is 9:45 - 9:50 or so.

The one thing going for that Rob is Wolters never claims his suspect took Madeleine out of 5a.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 09:03:57 AM
re the dogs...She starts by saying the dogs had helped solve 200 cases...which of course is lies....but sceptics want to beleive it.
I noticed she said "helped" rather than "solved" 200 cases.  Maybe Eddie has helped on that number of cases.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: barrier on December 18, 2020, 09:05:03 AM
I noticed she said "helped" rather than "solved" 200 cases.  Maybe Eddie has helped on that number of cases.

Not another  dog thread.  ?8)@)-)
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 09:08:36 AM
Not another  dog thread.  ?8)@)-)
The point that surprised me was that it took 5 days to get tracker dogs on the ground at Praia da Luz.  That is a long time IMO.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 18, 2020, 09:21:26 AM
The point that surprised me was that it took 5 days to get tracker dogs on the ground at Praia da Luz.  That is a long time IMO.
Please don't be criticising the Portuguese authorities - they did a smashing job.  No, really.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 09:53:08 AM
I noticed she said "helped" rather than "solved" 200 cases.  Maybe Eddie has helped on that number of cases.

I think she said help solved..

There was, a freedom of information request... It's in this forum somewhere... I doubt if I can find it... Which shows the actual number in 5 years was 37

Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 09:57:33 AM
I noticed she said "helped" rather than "solved" 200 cases.  Maybe Eddie has helped on that number of cases.

You need to listen again.. She says help solve..

Accuracy is very important

The true figure I think is less than 5...may be 2 ..

But she says more than 200
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: The General on December 18, 2020, 10:21:22 AM
You need to listen again.. She says help solve..

Accuracy is very important

The true figure I think is less than 5...may be 2 ..

But she says more than 200
Superb. Amazing powers. Good doggo....WOOF!
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: G-Unit on December 18, 2020, 10:34:35 AM
The point that surprised me was that it took 5 days to get tracker dogs on the ground at Praia da Luz.  That is a long time IMO.

That's not true, as anyone who has read the PJ Files will know.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 18, 2020, 10:39:26 AM
That's not true, as anyone who has read the PJ Files will know.

So another load of tripe?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 10:42:35 AM
So another load of tripe?

There's a lot of it about
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 10:49:11 AM
That's not true, as anyone who has read the PJ Files will know.
I think it is true, didn't the real specialist dogs arrive 5 days later.  Before that they had guard dogs and untrained tracker dogs.   So do you count the early ones?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 10:50:14 AM
There's a lot of it about
I know where it comes from.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 10:56:38 AM
So another load of tripe.
She says the McCanns were cleared.  That 's good isn't it?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 18, 2020, 11:02:30 AM
She says the McCanns were cleared.  That 's good isn't it?

That won't go down well.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: jassi on December 18, 2020, 11:07:37 AM
That won't go down well.

But  but.. earlier on today you said it was all a load of tripe.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 11:09:45 AM
That won't go down well.
The people who write the comments don't really show signs they have listened to what they say.  They have made up their minds ad say the same things over and over again. 
"They could afford to get a babysitter", "why didn't they get a baby sitter?"   Very few are saying the McCanns did it, but "they allowed it to happen".

I doubt if Kate said she "didn't touch the widows", I thought she said "they never opened them".
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 11:09:58 AM
She says the McCanns were cleared.  That 's good isn't it?

Is it really of any importance what this person says.. What credibility or authority does she have.
It's of no importance
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 11:20:14 AM
Is it really of any importance what this person says.. What credibility or authority does she have.
It's of no importance
Nearly 50,000 views  It would take a while to clock that up here.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 18, 2020, 11:24:24 AM
But  but.. earlier on today you said it was all a load of tripe.

Sorry, forgot the question mark.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 11:32:25 AM
Nearly 50,000 views  It would take a while to clock that up here.

Meaningless really. ..
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: G-Unit on December 18, 2020, 11:34:23 AM
I think it is true, didn't the real specialist dogs arrive 5 days later.  Before that they had guard dogs and untrained tracker dogs.   So do you count the early ones?

Unless you familiarise yourself with the evidence you will find yourself thinking people are telling the truth when they're not.

Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 11:41:37 AM
Unless you familiarise yourself with the evidence you will find yourself thinking people are telling the truth when they're not.

That applies to many.. The most important  being amaral and the PJ
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: barrier on December 18, 2020, 12:00:01 PM
That applies to many.. The most important  being amaral and the PJ

You guys had an end of year audit and still have some Amaral names left in the allocation? haven't seen his name for a day or two.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 12:04:25 PM
You guys had an end of year audit and still have some Amaral names left in the allocation? haven't seen his name for a day or two.

If a poster mentions lies it's not my fault that amaral springs to mind
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 18, 2020, 12:05:32 PM
You guys had an end of year audit and still have some Amaral names left in the allocation? haven't seen his name for a day or two.

Amaral hasn't had much to say recently.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 18, 2020, 01:47:01 PM
Superb. Amazing powers. Good doggo....WOOF!
Pavlov response in action.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 18, 2020, 01:48:24 PM
The people who write the comments don't really show signs they have listened to what they say.  They have made up their minds ad say the same things over and over again. 
"They could afford to get a babysitter", "why didn't they get a baby sitter?"   Very few are saying the McCanns did it, but "they allowed it to happen".

I doubt if Kate said she "didn't touch the widows", I thought she said "they never opened them".
Touching widows without their permission could get you into a lot of trouble, just ask Bruckner.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Lace on December 18, 2020, 01:53:32 PM
Sorry something totally different to what you are discussing.  At 2.35 on that video it shows a side view of CB    what struck me was his hair is how Jane described the man she saw.   Hair down the back of his neck but a lot of hair at the top.   It could look quite dark too at night.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Myster on December 18, 2020, 02:35:45 PM
Sorry something totally different to what you are discussing.  At 2.35 on that video it shows a side view of CB    what struck me was his hair is how Jane described the man she saw.   Hair down the back of his neck but a lot of hair at the top.   It could look quite dark too at night.
Longish hair doesn't go down the back of his neck though.  It's cut close to the nape and the wooden panelling behind gives the illusion that it's long, as in the JT sketch...
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: barrier on December 18, 2020, 03:38:17 PM
If a poster mentions lies it's not my fault that amaral springs to mind

You're stuck in a time loop, its moved on or not as the case maybe. Still if he means so much.......
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: barrier on December 18, 2020, 03:40:49 PM
Amaral hasn't had much to say recently.

Doesn't need to, the legend is writ, the legend being CB wot dunnit, perfect patsy forever, the one who dunnit even if not enough evidence emerges to try him. You have your abductor what more do you want.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 18, 2020, 03:50:24 PM
Doesn't need to, the legend is writ, the legend being CB wot dunnit, perfect patsy forever, the one who dunnit even if not enough evidence emerges to try him. You have your abductor what more do you want.

Not My Abductor.  Don't put words into my mouth.  You have just picked on the wrong Supporter.  How very silly is that?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: barrier on December 18, 2020, 03:58:24 PM
Not My Abductor.  Don't put words into my mouth.  You have just picked on the wrong Supporter.  How very silly is that?

See reply in tother thread.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 04:18:27 PM
Doesn't need to, the legend is writ, the legend being CB wot dunnit, perfect patsy forever, the one who dunnit even if not enough evidence emerges to try him. You have your abductor what more do you want.

Ee won't have the abductor until we see you the evidence
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: barrier on December 18, 2020, 04:21:39 PM
Ee won't have the abductor until we see you the evidence

He'll not release the evidence imo, what was known of the three amigos back in 2014, what led to the digs prior to their questioning?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 04:29:02 PM
He'll not release the evidence imo, what was known of the three amigos back in 2014, what led to the digs prior to their questioning?

No one said there was strong evidence  against the 3 amigos.
Wolters, will have to reveal his evidence eventually... Both to SY and the parents.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: barrier on December 18, 2020, 04:30:37 PM
No one said there was strong evidence  against the 3 amigos.
Wolters, will have to reveal his evidence eventually... Both to SY and the parents.

Why? if its an ongoing investigation.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 18, 2020, 05:34:39 PM
Doesn't need to, the legend is writ, the legend being CB wot dunnit, perfect patsy forever, the one who dunnit even if not enough evidence emerges to try him. You have your abductor what more do you want.
Do you have any idea how bitter and twisted you sound?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 05:42:42 PM
Meaningless really. ..
About as bad as 42,000 posts on the forum?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 05:47:00 PM
Sorry something totally different to what you are discussing.  At 2.35 on that video it shows a side view of CB    what struck me was his hair is how Jane described the man she saw.   Hair down the back of his neck but a lot of hair at the top.   It could look quite dark too at night.
Worth another look  2.35 you say.  I'll get the URL later.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 05:49:01 PM
You're stuck in a time loop, its moved on or not as the case maybe. Still if he means so much.......
We are still celebrating Christmas!
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 18, 2020, 05:49:11 PM
About as bad as 42,000 posts on the forum?

Careful Rob.

I once received a warning for posting someone's forum statistics.

Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 05:54:12 PM
About as bad as 42,000 posts on the forum?
Says the man whose proud of watching thousands of episodes of coronation street.

Are you trying to discourage posting.. Is that your idea of supporting the forum.  The forum is nothing without posts... Are you trying to ruin it.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 05:58:32 PM
Careful Rob.

I once received a warning for posting someone's forum statistics.
I've rounded it down in his favour.

Says the man whose proud of watching thousands of episodes of coronation street.

Are you trying to discourage posting.. Is that your idea of supporting the forum.  The forum is nothing without posts... Are you trying to ruin it.

I might not be that far behind you.  I bet I've started more threads than you?  Threads are what make the forum not the same old posts day after day.
(Robittybob2 - Around 24,000 and only been here half as long, And think of all the scores of threads that have been deleted completely!)

Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 06:02:44 PM
I've rounded it down in his favour.

I might not be that far behind you.  I bet I've started more threads than you?  Threads are what make the forum not the same old posts day after day.

I think I've contributed a lot to the forum and the fact you have so little respect for that shows how little you care about the forum

Why do you have to continually disrupt by posting personal attacks and starting petty arguments... Just how insecure are you
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 06:04:29 PM
Says the man whose proud of watching thousands of episodes of coronation street.

Are you trying to discourage posting.. Is that your idea of supporting the forum.  The forum is nothing without posts... Are you trying to ruin it.
You be careful what you say about my beloved!

I think I've contributed a lot to the forum and the fact you have so little respect for that shows how little you care about the forum

Why do you have to continually disrupt by posting personal attacks and starting petty arguments... Just how insecure are you
I think you started it.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 06:06:43 PM
You be careful what you say about my beloved!
I think you started it.

I criticised the video.. not you. Have another look
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 06:07:41 PM
I criticised the video.. not you. Have another look
Same difference I said the video was OK.   It is one of the best-balanced views I've heard for a long time.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 06:10:13 PM
Same difference I said the video was OK.

No it's not the same.. I criticised the video... You criticised me.  I was going to say I had zero respect for you but zero would be too high... It would have to be a negative number.  Grow up... You are like a kid in the playground
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 18, 2020, 06:11:48 PM

Okay you two.  That's enough.  Thank you.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 06:12:31 PM
Same difference I said the video was OK.   It is one of the best-balanced views I've heard for a long time.

You need an imo.. In that post
I'm not particularly  interested in videos made by people who have less knowledge of the case than several posters here.. Both gunit and I have highlighted fallacies in it.. I'm more interested in the real world
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 06:13:27 PM
No it's not the same.. I criticised the video... You criticised me.  I was going to say I had zero respect for you but zero would be too high... It would have to be a negative number.  Grow up... You are like a kid in the playground
Did I criticise you?  I don't believe that.  And look you've got back-up.
You need an imo.. In that post
No, I don't.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 06:15:36 PM
What is wrong with this video?  That is the question.  OK G-unit seems to think they are wrong about when they brought the sniffer dogs in.  Maybe that will need double checking.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 06:16:38 PM
Did I criticise you?  I don't believe that.  And look you've got back-up.No, I don't.
It's your opinion it's balanced..

Eleanor realise you are disrupting again
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 06:17:36 PM
What is wrong with this video?  That is the question.  OK G-unit seems to think they are wrong about when they brought the sniffer dogs in.  Maybe that will need double checking.

And the dogs have helped solve 200 cases... Total bull
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 06:20:18 PM
It's your opinion it's balanced..

Eleanor realise you are disrupting again
Does Eleanor agree with the video?  You can tell it is my opinion therefore I don't need to say IMO.

And the dogs have helped solve 200 cases... Total bull
But what does "Helped" mean.  They could still have helped even if the crime remains unsolved.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 06:22:31 PM
Does Eleanor agree with the video?  You can tell it is my opinion therefore I don't need to say IMO.
But what does "Helped" mean.  They could still have helped even if the crime remains unsolved.

They haven't even been involved in 200 cases
Its total bull
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 06:24:32 PM
Does Eleanor agree with the video?  You can tell it is my opinion therefore I don't need to say IMO.
But what does "Helped" mean.  They could still have helped even if the crime remains unsolved.

I think you need to check your understanding of English... She says helped solve... That's solved... Not unsolved
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 18, 2020, 06:25:44 PM
They haven't even been involved in 200 cases
Its total bull

37 Cases they were involved in.  And they didn't solve all of those.  How many times do we have to read this?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 06:31:35 PM
Worth another look  2.35 you say.  I'll get the URL later.
For the whole video: https://youtu.be/eBWsaJwBbxw  "Meet (most of!) the suspects in the Madeleine McCann case"

Worth another look  2.35 you say.  I'll get the URL later.
https://youtu.be/eBWsaJwBbxw?t=154

What looks like a long mullet is rather just his own shadow.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 06:33:05 PM
37 Cases they were involved in.  And they didn't solve all of those.  How many times do we have to read this?

Did Martin Grime confirm that number?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 06:36:19 PM
Did Martin Grime confirm that number?

You don't understand  what's real do you
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 18, 2020, 06:37:54 PM
Did Martin Grime confirm that number?

What number?

Apart from stating that Forensic Evidence is necessary to confirm Alerts, I don't think Martin Grime has ever confirmed anything.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 06:40:48 PM
I think you need to check your understanding of English... She says helped solve... That's solved... Not unsolved
How can we be sure?  What is the expression for the situation where a case remained unsolved?  Has he helped on any unsolved cases?  Surely that still comes under the umbrella of "helped solve" as in "helped to solve", in that their intention was to solve the cases they worked on?


What number?

Apart from stating that Forensic Evidence is necessary to confirm Alerts, I don't think Martin Grime has ever confirmed anything.
Either Amaral's number or Davel's number.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 06:44:46 PM
How can we be sure?  What is the expression for the situation where a case remained unsolved?  Has he helped on any unsolved cases?  Surely that still comes under the umbrella of "helped solve" as in "helped to solve", in that their intention was to solve the cases they worked on?

Either Amaral's number or Davel's number.

If he's help solve a case then that case is solved... What part of that is difficult for you to understand
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 06:47:55 PM
How can we be sure?  What is the expression for the situation where a case remained unsolved?  Has he helped on any unsolved cases?  Surely that still comes under the umbrella of "helped solve" as in "helped to solve", in that their intention was to solve the cases they worked on?

Either Amaral's number or Davel's number.
It's not my number it's south Yorkshire police's number... As anyone who has followed the case on this forum will know
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 18, 2020, 06:50:18 PM
It's not my number it's south Yorkshire police's number... As anyone who has followed the case on this forum will know

This is correct.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 06:51:14 PM
I think you need to check your understanding of English... She says helped solve... That's solved... Not unsolved
So by that definition, he can't say he helped solve the McCann case for at the moment it remains unsolved and Eddie has passed on, RIP.

If he's help solve a case then that case is solved... What part of that is difficult for you to understand
My question was to do with cases he worked on that remain unsolved.  Described those?

Would she have had to say, "Eddie has helped on 200 solved and unsolved cases"?

It's not my number it's south Yorkshire police's number... As anyone who has followed the case on this forum will know
And Yorkshire police know it all do they?

Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 18, 2020, 06:55:43 PM
So by that definition, he can't say he helped solve the McCann case for at the moment it remains unsolved and Eddie has passed on, RIP.
My question was to do with cases he worked on that remain unsolved.  Described those?

Would she have had to say, "Eddie has helped on 200 solved and unsolved cases"?
And Yorkshire police know it all do they?

Eddie belonged to The South Yorkshire Police.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 07:04:41 PM
If he's help solve a case then that case is solved... What part of that is difficult for you to understand
I can't accept that sorry.  For what do you say for his cases overall, did he "help" on cases that remain unsolved?
If "you help fix a car" does that mean the car was fixed, and only fixed?

"He helped dig the garden".  Does that mean to the very end, and none was left to be finished another day?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 07:15:21 PM
I can't accept that sorry.  For what do you say for his cases overall, did he "help" on cases that remain unsolved?
If "you help fix a car" does that mean the car was fixed, and only fixed?

"He helped dig the garden".  Does that mean to the very end, and none was left to be finished another day?

I'm not really interested in what you accept or understand... I did try to help you with the facts.. As has Eleanor... But if you want to live in ignorance that's your choice
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 07:18:14 PM
I'm not really interested in what you accept or understand... I did try to help you with the facts.. As has Eleanor... But if you want to live in ignorance that's your choice
You apparently speak a different language than I do.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 18, 2020, 07:20:14 PM
You apparently speak a different language than I do.

Do I?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 07:21:21 PM
I can't accept that sorry.  For what do you say for his cases overall, did he "help" on cases that remain unsolved?
I can't accept that sorry.  For what do you say for his cases overall, did he "help" on cases that remain untried?
I can't accept that sorry.  For what do you say for his cases overall, did he "help" on cases that remain under appeal?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 07:26:05 PM
Do I?

No, you often speak French and I have to use Google Translate.  That video under discussion was produced by an American speaking person.  They speak another variant of English.
Was she American?

"
True Crime Recaps" seems to be an American (USA) based channel.  Most of the videos are about USA cases.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 18, 2020, 07:27:04 PM
I can't accept that sorry.  For what do you say for his cases overall, did he "help" on cases that remain unsolved?
I can't accept that sorry.  For what do you say for his cases overall, did he "help" on cases that remain untried?
I can't accept that sorry.  For what do you say for his cases overall, did he "help" on cases that remain under appeal?

This is ridiculous, Rob.  You are asking the impossible.

Make a Freedom of Information Request to The South Yorkshire Police who owned Eddie.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 07:31:25 PM
This is ridiculous, Rob.  You are asking the impossible.

Make a Freedom of Information Request to The South Yorkshire Police who owned Eddie.
It's not the number that I'm interested in but the expression Davel would use to described cases in these states.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 07:32:16 PM
I can't accept that sorry.  For what do you say for his cases overall, did he "help" on cases that remain unsolved?
I can't accept that sorry.  For what do you say for his cases overall, did he "help" on cases that remain untried?
I can't accept that sorry.  For what do you say for his cases overall, did he "help" on cases that remain under appeal?
None of that makes any sense at all..
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 07:38:11 PM
None if that makes any sense at all..
When can you only say a crime is solved?

When can it be said "a case is solved"?

1. When the culprit pleads guilty?
2. Or is found guilty and he doesn't lodge an appeal?
3.  Or when there is no chance of a false confession?
4. Or when the culprit refuses to take a polygraph or lawyers up.

Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 18, 2020, 07:51:09 PM
When can you only say a crime is solved?

When can it be said "a case is solved"?

1. When the culprit pleads guilty?
2. Or is found guilty and he doesn't lodge an appeal?
3.  Or when there is no chance of a false confession?
4. Or when the culprit refuses to take a polygraph or lawyers up.

What do you think?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 18, 2020, 08:03:41 PM
Another thread goes down the rabbit hole. 
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 08:06:12 PM
When can you only say a crime is solved?

When can it be said "a case is solved"?

1. When the culprit pleads guilty?
2. Or is found guilty and he doesn't lodge an appeal?
3.  Or when there is no chance of a false confession?
4. Or when the culprit refuses to take a polygraph or lawyers up.

I think most sensible people understand what a solved case is
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 08:07:33 PM
What do you think?
I'm not sure if you can ever be certain. 
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 08:10:53 PM
I think most sensible people understand what a solved case is
I've seen plenty of cases where the police seem to accept the case was solved but a trial never confirmed it.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 08:14:12 PM
Another thread goes down the rabbit hole.
It might have been a Mole hole!
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 08:14:40 PM
I've seen plenty of cases where the police seem to accept the case was solved but a trial never confirmed it.

Think what you ike.. I'm not interested
Imo.. You dont have a clue
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 08:16:41 PM
Think what you ike.. I'm not interested
Imo.. You dont have a clue
That is why I'm asking you.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 18, 2020, 08:20:31 PM
That is why I'm asking you.

But you aren't understanding, Rob.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 08:23:14 PM
But you aren't understanding, Rob.
Precisely
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 08:33:36 PM
But you aren't understanding, Rob.
I haven't seen any attempt to answer my question.  Criticism of my intellect is not a valid answer IMO.

"Case Closed? How 'Solved' Murder Stats Are Misleading
Homicide clearance rates don't always mean what they seem to mean.
MIKE MACIAG   |   APRIL 2015"

Touches on some aspects of the problem:
"There are many reasons why clearance data vary so much from one city to another. The most common way for a case to be cleared is if a suspect is arrested or charged, but the FBI also allows for clearances by “exceptional means” when charges are not filed. Sometimes this is because a suspect has died or witnesses decline to testify, but different departments might clear cases this way under a litany of circumstances. It’s another reason why it’s difficult to draw conclusions from the numbers. “I don’t think it’s a measure that law enforcement wants people to really study,” says John Boulahanis, a Southeastern Louisiana University professor.

Boulahanis researched Chicago’s murder clearance data from the 1980s and 1990s and found that “exceptional clearances” accounted for as much as 20 percent of the cleared caseload in any given year. What stood out to him was that the majority of these cases were labeled “barred to prosecution,” meaning that police had identified their suspect, but prosecutors declined to authorize an arrest. Examining the individual cases revealed that cleared murders were disproportionately more likely to be barred to prosecution if they involved African-American victims or occurred in police districts on the crime-plagued South Side of the city. Closing cases this way not only boosts an agency’s clearance rate, but also means that prosecutors don’t handle as many of the tougher cases that can take a toll on their conviction rates."

https://www.governing.com/topics/public-justice-safety/gov-murder-clearance-rates-misleading.html
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 08:36:19 PM
I haven't seen any attempt to answer my question.  Criticism of my intellect is not a valid answer IMO.

"Case Closed? How 'Solved' Murder Stats Are Misleading
Homicide clearance rates don't always mean what they seem to mean.
MIKE MACIAG   |   APRIL 2015"

Touches on some aspects of the problem:
"There are many reasons why clearance data vary so much from one city to another. The most common way for a case to be cleared is if a suspect is arrested or charged, but the FBI also allows for clearances by “exceptional means” when charges are not filed. Sometimes this is because a suspect has died or witnesses decline to testify, but different departments might clear cases this way under a litany of circumstances. It’s another reason why it’s difficult to draw conclusions from the numbers. “I don’t think it’s a measure that law enforcement wants people to really study,” says John Boulahanis, a Southeastern Louisiana University professor.

Boulahanis researched Chicago’s murder clearance data from the 1980s and 1990s and found that “exceptional clearances” accounted for as much as 20 percent of the cleared caseload in any given year. What stood out to him was that the majority of these cases were labeled “barred to prosecution,” meaning that police had identified their suspect, but prosecutors declined to authorize an arrest. Examining the individual cases revealed that cleared murders were disproportionately more likely to be barred to prosecution if they involved African-American victims or occurred in police districts on the crime-plagued South Side of the city. Closing cases this way not only boosts an agency’s clearance rate, but also means that prosecutors don’t handle as many of the tougher cases that can take a toll on their conviction rates."

https://www.governing.com/topics/public-justice-safety/gov-murder-clearance-rates-misleading.html

Did you happen to notice the word cleared rather than solved
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 18, 2020, 08:40:12 PM
I think you are arguing for the sake of arguing, Rob.  I don't think there is anything wrong with your intellect.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: G-Unit on December 18, 2020, 08:50:21 PM
What is wrong with this video?  That is the question.  OK G-unit seems to think they are wrong about when they brought the sniffer dogs in.  Maybe that will need double checking.

You sound like you don't know who is right. The answer lies in the files so you don't need to wonder; check for yourself.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 08:56:24 PM
You sound like you don't know who is right. The answer lies in the files so you don't need to wonder; check for yourself.
Oneday I will.  But from memory, we'd done that already and it was debatable as to whether the dogs used were suitable or capable, and whether their findings meant anything.  It is unresolvable unless they discover a body in the process IMO.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 08:58:52 PM
I think you are arguing for the sake of arguing, Rob.  I don't think there is anything wrong with your intellect.
I do make mistakes at times.  I wouldn't say I was the best at comprehension.  I got through university but only just.  I wasn't an honours student. 
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 09:04:16 PM
Did you happen to notice the word cleared rather than solved
"Cleared" but no one is charged in many cases.  So it becomes "cleared as far as the police are concerned", but the public would consider the case unresolved as no one is ever convicted.

So if a cadaver dog was involved in those cases did the dog help to solve the case or not?  The answer is lost in the paperwork IMO.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 18, 2020, 09:13:07 PM
"Cleared" but no one is charged in many cases.  So it becomes "cleared as far as the police are concerned", but the public would consider the case unresolved as no one is ever convicted.

So if a cadaver dog was involved in those cases did the dog help to solve the case or not?  The answer is lost in the paperwork IMO.

In that case the dogs didn't help.

As you rightly pointed out, they aren't much use unless they find a body.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 09:20:50 PM
In that case the dogs didn't help.

As you rightly pointed out, they aren't much use unless they find a body.
But Martin Grime as an advocate for the use of cadaver dogs would most likely want to count that as a positive outcome.  So we get the difference between 37 or 200 cases  "helped solve".
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 18, 2020, 09:27:22 PM
But Martin Grime as an advocate for the use of cadaver dogs would most likely want to count that as a positive outcome.  So we get the difference between 37 or 200 cases  "helped solve".

Martin Grime charges an awful lot of money for what he does.

He was paid £96,000 for his efforts on Jersey, but sadly didn't find anything useful at all.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 09:46:56 PM
Martin Grime charges an awful lot of money for what he does.

He was paid £96,000 for his efforts on Jersey, but sadly didn't find anything useful at all.
He would have counted that as about 10 positive cases IMO based on the number of times Eddie barked.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 18, 2020, 09:53:28 PM
He would have counted that as about 10 positive cases IMO based on the number of times Eddie barked.

That's the secret.  Get the dog to bark and everyone's a winner.  And the next thing you know you've got a Conspiracy on your hands.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 09:56:03 PM
But Martin Grime as an advocate for the use of cadaver dogs would most likely want to count that as a positive outcome.  So we get the difference between 37 or 200 cases  "helped solve".

The dogs were never involved in 200 cases.. Only 37
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 10:00:30 PM
The dogs were never involved in 200 cases.. Only 37
I doubt that.  Cite please.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 10:39:59 PM
I doubt that.  Cite please.

https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11844.msg632150#msg632150
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: G-Unit on December 18, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
Oneday I will.  But from memory, we'd done that already and it was debatable as to whether the dogs used were suitable or capable, and whether their findings meant anything.  It is unresolvable unless they discover a body in the process IMO.

Casting aspersions on dog's capabilities is habitual for some. In my opinion it has more to do with a narrative they want to uphold than with the dog's actual suitabilities and capabilities. Tracker dogs use scent to track a live individual, not a body btw.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 10:49:11 PM
Casting aspersions on dog's capabilities is habitual for some. In my opinion it has more to do with a narrative they want to uphold than with the dog's actual suitabilities and capabilities. Tracker dogs use scent to track a live individual, not a body btw.
Telling the truth about the dogs seems to annoy you.. It's obvious why

https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8032.msg411622#msg411622
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 10:53:53 PM
Casting aspersions on dog's capabilities is habitual for some. In my opinion it has more to do with a narrative they want to uphold than with the dog's actual suitabilities and capabilities. Tracker dogs use scent to track a live individual, not a body btw.

Don't accuse me of casting aspersions when I am telling the truth supported by cites

A more important  point is, why do some posters want to promote lies Re the dogs
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 18, 2020, 10:56:56 PM
I doubt that.  Cite please.

If you look at the cite I gave by John... You might notice the post underneath is from you.  Might be a good idea to try and remember important facts instead of asking fir cites continually
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 18, 2020, 10:58:32 PM
Telling the truth about the dogs seems to annoy you.. It's obvious why

https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8032.msg411622#msg411622

Well, well.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 11:11:44 PM
https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11844.msg632150#msg632150

https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11844.msg632150#msg632150
Your cite was Eleanor - I'll be damned!
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 11:14:03 PM
Casting aspersions on dog's capabilities is habitual for some. In my opinion it has more to do with a narrative they want to uphold than with the dog's actual suitabilities and capabilities. Tracker dogs use scent to track a live individual, not a body btw.
I'm not stupid.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 18, 2020, 11:17:27 PM
https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11844.msg632150#msg632150
Your cite was Eleanor - I'll be damned!

Have you read the one from John?  The one with your name underneath.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 18, 2020, 11:23:55 PM
Have you read the one from John?  The one with your name underneath.
I did start but it was a bit long winded.  I'll try again.

I'm not reading all the individual cases.

But he backs down a bit 200 cases could be 200 case searches.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 18, 2020, 11:39:55 PM
I did start but it was a bit long winded.  I'll try again.

I'm not reading all the individual cases.

But he backs down a bit 200 cases could be 200 case searches.

How can you expect to know what is going on if you don't read Comments?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 18, 2020, 11:49:17 PM
Casting aspersions on dog's capabilities is habitual for some. In my opinion it has more to do with a narrative they want to uphold than with the dog's actual suitabilities and capabilities. Tracker dogs use scent to track a live individual, not a body btw.
So Madeleine didn’t die in the apartment then? 
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 19, 2020, 06:46:47 AM
How can you expect to know what is going on if you don't read Comments?
Since becoming a moderator my main focus is making sure the posts meet the forum rules rather than their content. 
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 19, 2020, 06:52:01 AM
So Madeleine didn’t die in the apartment then?
That would depend on what theory you prefer.
If you accept that the sniffer dogs followed Madeleine's scent from the apartment to the car park. Then yes.

If you think the dogs tracked her but in the wrong direction - Then possibly No.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 19, 2020, 07:57:51 AM
Good posts re-tracker dogs used in the McCann case:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10879.msg544652#msg544652

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10879.msg544685#msg544685

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10879.msg544711#msg544711

I think from that G-unit was arguing that the dogs may not have been tracking Madeleine's scent at all. A claim that can't be proven at all at this point in time.

The GNR officers were satisfied it was Madeleine's scent (training).   I wonder why we should dispute that without evidence to the contrary.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 08:48:07 AM
Good posts re-tracker dogs used in the McCann case:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10879.msg544652#msg544652

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10879.msg544685#msg544685

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10879.msg544711#msg544711

I think from that G-unit was arguing that the dogs may not have been tracking Madeleine's scent at all. A claim that can't be proven at all at this point in time.

The GNR officers were satisfied it was Madeleine's scent (training).   I wonder why we should dispute that without evidence to the contrary.
Wolters is sure Maddie is murdered by CB... Should we, dispute that..

We should question everything... Not accept things blindly
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 19, 2020, 09:47:09 AM
Wolters is sure Maddie is murdered by CB... Should we, dispute that..

We should question everything... Not accept things blindly

But isn’t that exactly what you are doing?

Wolter says he that he has concrete evidence, neither you nor, allegedly, Cressida Dick has seen that evidence....yet you believe it wholeheartedly. Isn’t that the very definition of blind faith? That faith seems to be based on nothing more than the assumption that he wouldn’t over-egg the evidence.
 
If I’m wrong tell me exactly what has convinced you that Wolter’s evidence is as solid as he claims?

Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 09:58:30 AM
But isn’t that exactly what you are doing?

Wolter says he that he has concrete evidence, neither you nor, allegedly, Cressida Dick has seen that evidence....yet you believe it wholeheartedly. Isn’t that the very definition of blind faith? That faith seems to be based on nothing more than the assumption that he wouldn’t over-egg the evidence.
 
If I’m wrong tell me exactly what has convinced you that Wolter’s evidence is as solid as he claims?

I believe Wolters has concrete evidence.. Not blindly... But based on several factors  which I have already explained. Why should I continually repeat this for your benefit. It's not important to me whether you accept it ir not.
If the PJ announced  they had concrete evidence of the mccanns involvement I would see that as highly significant and not simply dismiss it
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 19, 2020, 10:05:03 AM
I believe Wolters has concrete evidence.. Not blindly... But based on several factors  which I have already explained. Why should I continually repeat this for your benefit. It's not important to me whether you accept it ir not.
If the PJ announced  they had concrete evidence of the mccanns involvement I would see that as highly significant and not simply dismiss it

You have given no credible reason why you believe him other than....why would he lie.

To be clear...I’m not accusing him of lying per se but he wouldn’t be the first legal official who has become so fixated on a suspect that he can’t see the wood for the trees and totally skews an investigation because of it.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 10:07:07 AM
You have given no credible reason why you believe him other than....why would he lie.

To be clear...I’m not accusing him of lying per se but he wouldn’t be the first legal official who has become so fixated on a suspect that he can’t see the wood for the trees and totally skews an investigation because of it.

No I have other reasons which if you had read previous posts you would understand.. I'm not going to repeat them because it's pointless
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 10:24:25 AM
CB it seems has a team of very expensive experienced lawyers. If HCW has told  a litany of lies he will no doubt be severely punished for it. To mislead SY...the parents and the public would be a total disgrace. To tell the McCanns he can show Maddie died at the hands of  a cruel sadistic paedophile would unforgivable. He will be sued and deservedly so.

The fact is none of these lawyers as yet have claimed the evidence doesnt exist...theyve just asked to see it also says a lot to me.

on balance...for me...Wolters has significant evidence
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 19, 2020, 10:30:35 AM
we've had heaps of threads about Wolters etc.  Relate that to the video and we'll discuss it or otherwise, it is off-topic. and I'll delete it.  OK for the next 8 hours I'm sleeping so you might get away with it for a while. 
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 10:34:51 AM
we've had heaps of threads about Wolters etc.  Relate that to the video and we'll discuss it or otherwise, it is off-topic. and I'll delete it.  OK for the next 8 hours I'm sleeping so you might get away with it for a while.

CB is discussed in the video and therefore relates to it
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 19, 2020, 10:42:11 AM
No I have other reasons which if you had read previous posts you would understand.. I'm not going to repeat them because it's pointless

I and others have read your previous posts and have seen nothing but blind faith to underpin your belief. We can’t all be wrong, surely?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 10:46:41 AM
I and others have read your previous posts and have seen nothing but blind faith to underpin your belief. We can’t all be wrong, surely?

Yes both  of you are wrong,,,if all you see is blind faith then you must be...blind
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Brietta on December 19, 2020, 10:47:59 AM
I saw this new video pop up on YT and I think it must be fairly recent.  "Posted Oct 26, 2020"  and on the whole it seems a pretty balanced summary. 

Did it take 5 days to bring the tracker dogs to Praia da Luz?  Mentioned https://youtu.be/eBWsaJwBbxw?t=1007 more than 3/4 the way through.

Davel might have a bit to say about the Cadaver dogs. 

https://youtu.be/eBWsaJwBbxw  "Meet (most of!) the suspects in the Madeleine McCann case"

Not a bad job over all IMO.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/New_Scotland_Yard_sign_3.jpg/116px-New_Scotland_Yard_sign_3.jpg)
Going back to the opening post: I don't place too much reliance on a commentary which in the intro at 1:15 manages to confuse the involvement of Police Scotland with the English police based on the wording of a sign. 

Such an obvious inaccuracy doesn't bode well for the quality of the rest of the information contained therein;  but as the video makers state ~

Pinned by True Crime Recaps
True Crime Recaps
1 month ago (edited)
German police are working around the clock trying to prove that Christian B. is responsible for the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, but Portuguese investigators insist they’re wrong. Who do YOU think did it?

 ... it is apparent that any discussion regarding prime suspect Brueckner is very much ON TOPIC.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 19, 2020, 10:49:46 AM
CB is discussed in the video and therefore relates to it
Discuss what is said about Wolters or CB in the video.  Not the same old rubbish that we've heard a hundred times already.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 19, 2020, 10:53:47 AM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/New_Scotland_Yard_sign_3.jpg/116px-New_Scotland_Yard_sign_3.jpg)
Going back to the opening post: I don't place too much reliance on a commentary which in the intro at 1:15 manages to confuse the involvement of Police Scotland with the English police based on the wording of a sign. 

Such an obvious inaccuracy doesn't bode well for the quality of the rest of the information contained therein;  but as the video makers state ~

Pinned by True Crime Recaps
True Crime Recaps
1 month ago (edited)
German police are working around the clock trying to prove that Christian B. is responsible for the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, but Portuguese investigators insist they’re wrong. Who do YOU think did it?

 ... it is apparent that any discussion regarding prime suspect Brueckner is very much ON TOPIC.
The commentators are American, so it is possible they have gotten "Scottland Yard" mixed up with the Scottish police.  I never noticed that myself.    It is rather a minor error in the scheme of things.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Brietta on December 19, 2020, 10:54:53 AM
Discuss what is said about Wolters or CB in the video.  Not the same old rubbish that we've heard a hundred times already.


Please do not insult members Rob.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Brietta on December 19, 2020, 10:59:14 AM
The commentators are American, so it is possible they have gotten "Scottland Yard" mixed up with the Scottish police.  I never noticed that myself.    It is rather a minor error in the scheme of things.

It may be minor to you; but to me and anyone else who knows anything at all about Madeleine's case it is an elementary factual error like so many other factoids produced by amateurs masquerading as influencers.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 19, 2020, 10:59:52 AM

Please do not insult members Rob.
I don't want Davel discussing his reliance on HCW's evidence in this thread.  It is IMO off-topic unless he finds somewhere in the video it brings up this issue.
There are several current threads already discussing this already.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 19, 2020, 11:08:23 AM
It may be minor to you; but to me and anyone else who knows anything at all about Madeleine's case it is an elementary factual error like so many other factoids produced by amateurs masquerading as influencers.
This video may explain why there have been so many USA based internet users joining the McCann sites lately.  For too long it has just been a UK based discussion.    Some factoids may be slightly out, It wasn't the Scottish police but the Leicestershire police department.  I'm from NZ and that means very little to me TBH.  It doesn't really change the case.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 19, 2020, 11:11:59 AM

Please do not insult members Rob.
I'm criticising his posts, not the member.   
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 11:17:03 AM
Discuss what is said about Wolters or CB in the video.  Not the same old rubbish that we've heard a hundred times already.

And we've discussed the dogs a thousand times
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 19, 2020, 11:20:07 AM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/New_Scotland_Yard_sign_3.jpg/116px-New_Scotland_Yard_sign_3.jpg)
Going back to the opening post: I don't place too much reliance on a commentary which in the intro at 1:15 manages to confuse the involvement of Police Scotland with the English police based on the wording of a sign. 

Such an obvious inaccuracy doesn't bode well for the quality of the rest of the information contained therein;  but as the video makers state ~

Pinned by True Crime Recaps
True Crime Recaps
1 month ago (edited)
German police are working around the clock trying to prove that Christian B. is responsible for the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, but Portuguese investigators insist they’re wrong. Who do YOU think did it?

 ... it is apparent that any discussion regarding prime suspect Brueckner is very much ON TOPIC.

Is this statement correct?  It is from the above mentioned pinned comment.  "Can they prove Christian Brueckner murdered Maddie before the statute of limitations runs out?"

Was there a limit on the time to charge for murder?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 19, 2020, 11:22:27 AM
And we've discussed the dogs a thousand times
But not so often the tracker dogs that arrive 5 days after Madeleine went missing???    Was that true?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: G-Unit on December 19, 2020, 11:26:12 AM
I'm not stupid.

I have no idea why you gave that response to my post.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: G-Unit on December 19, 2020, 11:28:34 AM
So Madeleine didn’t die in the apartment then?

Sorry, but I don't follow the mysterious workings of your mind.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 19, 2020, 11:37:03 AM
Is this statement correct?  It is from the above mentioned pinned comment.  "Can they prove Christian Brueckner murdered Maddie before the statute of limitations runs out?"

Was there a limit on the time to charge for murder?

Only in Portugal.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Brietta on December 19, 2020, 11:38:26 AM
I'm criticising his posts, not the member.   

It is not for you to decide what aspect the member will discuss as long as the post reflects ON TOPIC material and conforms to forum ethics.

Pinned by True Crime Recaps
True Crime Recaps
1 month ago (edited)
German police are working around the clock trying to prove that Christian B. is responsible for the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, but Portuguese investigators insist they’re wrong. Who do YOU think did it?

The member you are castigating is posting on topic and discussing only known facts and abiding strictly to forum protocols throughout, please bear that in mind when commenting on his posts.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Brietta on December 19, 2020, 11:41:47 AM
Only in Portugal.

Just as there is a limit on the crime of rape.  Which is probably why the Policia Judiciaria may have been happy to cooperate with the Germans in getting justice for the rape of the American widow?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 12:21:10 PM
But not so often the tracker dogs that arrive 5 days after Madeleine went missing???    Was that true?

according to Gunit no....and she says the files support her
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: G-Unit on December 19, 2020, 12:36:20 PM
according to Gunit no....and she says the files support her

May I point out that the files are available for any interested person to read. It's hard for me to understand how people who claim to be interested in the case don't seem to be interested in scrutinising the evidence.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 12:57:42 PM
May I point out that the files are available for any interested person to read. It's hard for me to understand how people who claim to be interested in the case don't seem to be interested in scrutinising the evidence.

Ive read and understood  the appropriate parts several times.....the only reason I referred to your post was so that Rob wasnt in aposition to ask me for  a cite rather than you. Its the poster making the most noise...Rob...who doesnt seem familiar with the files.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 01:03:30 PM
1. On 4th May, after having evaluated the situation surrounding the disappearance, the Lagos Post Commander ordered searches for the child to take place and contacted officers who were at home, forming a force of nine officers who searched during the night and early morning.

2. At 02.00 they arrived at P da L and began searching with the Portimao sniffer dog teams

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GNR_SNIFFER.htm
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 19, 2020, 01:17:02 PM
Sorry, but I don't follow the mysterious workings of your mind.
You say we should not cast aspersions on the dogs abilities.  You say "Tracker dogs use scent to track a live individual, not a body btw".  Tracker dogs  tracked Madeleine leaving the apartment up to a certain point.  I'm sure with this help I have now provided you can follow the mysterious workings of my mind.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 19, 2020, 05:40:19 PM
I have no idea why you gave that response to my post.
I was responding to the remark "Tracker dogs use scent to track a live individual, not a body btw."   Which I slightly disagreed with, for there could be a body at the end of the track, but I know what you mean.  They are tracking someone presumably alive walking/running away.

I apologise for being a bit snappy.

Like some think tracking a body with sniffer dogs won't work.
If Tannerman was carrying a person who could be identified as Madeleine, would it make a difference if Tannerman was carrying a live Madeleine, a drugged Madeleine, or even a deceased Madeleine? 
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 19, 2020, 05:42:59 PM
Only in Portugal.
Does anyone know what the Statute of Limitations is for murder in Portugal then?    I didn't think there was one TBH.  We'll have to look that up.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 19, 2020, 05:45:25 PM
according to Gunit no....and she says the files support her
I gave you the quotes. 
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 19, 2020, 05:51:26 PM
Does anyone know what the Statute of Limitations is for murder in Portugal then?    I didn't think there was one TBH.  We'll have to look that up.

I don't know, Rob.  I think it is fifteen years.  But the fact that Portugal has this at all is bad enough for me.

It has been said, however that it has been nearly fifteen years since Madeleine disappeared and someone should get a move on before it is too late.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Brietta on December 19, 2020, 06:46:26 PM
Does anyone know what the Statute of Limitations is for murder in Portugal then?    I didn't think there was one TBH.  We'll have to look that up.

I don't think Madeleine was given the dignity of being looked for by the Portuguese investigation.  The co-ordinator had made his mind up by the morning of the 4th who was responsible then set about proving that. 

The impossibilities engendered by concentrating energies on belief rather than evidence became apparent when it was too late to benefit from the uncorrupted evidence of the first instance.

All of which was compounded by archiving an investigation for a missing child and placing further collation of incoming evidence into the hands of an officer who firmly upheld the precepts of the botched investigation in which he played a principal role.

All of which has led to discussion of an idiotic video produced by individuals who really do not have a clue what they are on about.  Very much the standard as far as such videos are concerned.

I wonder if Jes Wilkins knows he doesn't exist?  Must be true ... that's what the video says.

Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 19, 2020, 06:57:21 PM
Jez Wilkins doesn't exist.  That's a miracle.  Where do they say that?

https://youtu.be/eBWsaJwBbxw

Next time I'll put the URL in the title!

https://youtu.be/eBWsaJwBbxw?t=711   "At the same time Jane .....
The video doesn't mention Jes Wilkins by name.  Is that why you say "Jes Wilkins doesn't exist"?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 07:07:56 PM
The video is full of mistakes.  It doesn't mention that HCW claims he has concrete evidence  Maddiebis dead and CB killed her
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 19, 2020, 07:30:36 PM
The video is full of mistakes.  It doesn't mention that HCW claims he has concrete evidence  Maddiebis dead and CB killed her
The video tries to limit itself to facts.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 19, 2020, 07:40:45 PM
...snip ....

All of which has led to discussion of an idiotic video produced by individuals who really do not have a clue what they are on about.  Very much the standard as far as such videos are concerned.

I wonder if Jes Wilkins knows he doesn't exist?  Must be true ... that's what the video says.

https://youtu.be/eBWsaJwBbxw?t=711   "At the same time Jane .....
The video doesn't mention Jes Wilkins by name.  Is that why you say "Jes Wilkins knows he doesn't exist"?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 19, 2020, 07:42:58 PM
The video is full of mistakes.  It doesn't mention that HCW claims he has concrete evidence  Maddiebis dead and CB killed her

Perhaps because he doesn’t ?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 07:44:53 PM
The video tries to limit itself to facts.

What I posted is a fact...a very important fact...read it again.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 19, 2020, 07:47:50 PM
What I posted is a fact...a very important fact...read it again.

It is a fact that Wolter said he had the evidence. It is not a fact that he actually does. That you blindly believe it doesn’t make it a fact.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 07:49:56 PM
It is a fact that Wolter said he had the evidence. It is not a fact that he actually does. That you blindly believe it doesn’t make it a fact.
what I posted is a fact wheras your post is merely your opinion....at least I know the difference between fact and opinion
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 19, 2020, 07:50:29 PM
what I posted is a fact wheras your post is merely your opinion.

It is not a fact. You are incorrect.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 07:51:23 PM
It is not a fact. You are incorrect.

you neeed to read the post again...what I posted was fact
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 19, 2020, 07:53:08 PM
you neeed to read the post again...what I posted was fact

It is not fact. That Wolter said he had evidence is fact. That he actually has it is not.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 07:54:51 PM
It is not fact. That Wolter said he had evidence is fact. That he actually has it is not.

you obviously have problems reading..try again
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 07:55:59 PM
The video is full of mistakes.  It doesn't mention that HCW claims he has concrete evidence  Maddiebis dead and CB killed her

my post is factual...I say HCW claims he has....not that he has
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 19, 2020, 07:59:08 PM
my post is factual

As a Rob said the video only reports facts. It is not a proven fact that Wolter has the evidence he says.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 08:01:11 PM
As a Rob said the video only reports facts. It is not a proven fact that Wolter has the evidence he says.

Robs wrong...as are you...it gets  a lot wrong. Neither of you an bear to hear what wolters has to say
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 19, 2020, 08:03:56 PM
Robs wrong...as are you...it gets  a lot wrong. Neither of you an bear to hear what wolters has to say

People can claim anything. The proof of the pudding and all that.

You’ve been sold a pup but can’t bear to admit it.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 08:04:42 PM
The video tries to limit itself to facts.

have you listened to it...it says the polie saw the video of the rape. Its fairly poor on facts
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 08:06:24 PM
People can claim anything. The proof of the pudding and all that.

You’ve been sold a pup but can’t bear to admit it.

Your posts are of very poor quality ...all opinion and no facts
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Brietta on December 19, 2020, 08:07:46 PM
Jez Wilkins doesn't exist.  That's a miracle.  Where do they say that?

https://youtu.be/eBWsaJwBbxw

Next time I'll put the URL in the title!

https://youtu.be/eBWsaJwBbxw?t=711   "At the same time Jane .....
The video doesn't mention Jes Wilkins by name.  Is that why you say "Jes Wilkins doesn't exist"?

No it isn't ... the commentator says to camera ... 11:50 >... "but he didn't exist" in rebuttal of Jane, Gerry and the apparently non-existent Jes's evidence to the contrary.

Perhaps next time you refer a video to the forum, would it be possible for you to find one which doesn't insult our intelligence with elementary errors such as Night Calpol.
It is an amateurishly produced video riddled with mistakes from start to finish and really should not be given the oxygen of publicity on a forum like ours which aims to be as accurate as possible.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 08:08:48 PM
Wolters made his claim 6 months ago...yet no one of any importance has suggested hes wrong...nether his German colleagues...SY or the McCanns
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 19, 2020, 08:10:40 PM
Your posts are of very poor quality ...all opinion and no facts

Did you read my cite on double jeopardy in Germany. Seems things aren’t as clear cut regarding charging Brueckner as Wolter’s would have us believe.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 08:11:12 PM
No it isn't ... the commentator says to camera ... 11:50 >... "but he didn't exist" in rebuttal of Jane, Gerry and the apparently non-existent Jes's evidence to the contrary.

Perhaps next time you refer a video to the forum, would it be possible for you to find one which doesn't insult our intelligence with elementary errors such as Night Calpol.
It is an amateurishly produced video riddled with mistakes from start to finish and really should not be given the oxygen of publicity on a forum like ours which aims to be as accurate as possible.

Perhaps its  apoor idea that Moderators are able to Ok their own threads. It's resulted in some absolute rubbish imo...any more from Stan?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 08:12:46 PM
Did you read my cite on double jeopardy in Germany. Seems things aren’t as clear cut regarding charging Brueckner as Wolter’s would have us believe.


I read it but prefer the opinion of the Prosecutor rather than an anonymous poster with  a severe case of confirmation bias who doesnt seem to know the difference between opinion and fact
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 19, 2020, 08:18:18 PM
Perhaps its  apoor idea that Moderators are able to Ok their own threads. It's resulted in some absolute rubbish imo...any more from Stan?

I have to say that I agree with this.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Brietta on December 19, 2020, 08:25:32 PM

I read it but prefer the opinion of the Prosecutor rather than an anonymous poster with  a severe case of confirmation bias

I'm thinking that a German Prosecutor has a greater grasp of German law than he is being given credit for by some posters.

I think he has a clear understanding of what knowledge he can and cannot place in the public domain and I wish him all the very best in his search for evidence and truth.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 19, 2020, 08:33:27 PM
have you listened to it...it says the polie saw the video of the rape. Its fairly poor on facts
Is that right?  You should back this with the URL since you're a genius.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 08:37:05 PM
Is that right?  You should back this with the URL since you're a genius.

Its right and it appears you have posted this video and havent even watched it.....so how can you have an opinion on it
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 19, 2020, 08:46:53 PM
No it isn't ... the commentator says to camera ... 11:50 >... "but he didn't exist" in rebuttal of Jane, Gerry and the apparently non-existent Jes's evidence to the contrary.

Perhaps next time you refer a video to the forum, would it be possible for you to find one which doesn't insult our intelligence with elementary errors such as Night Calpol.
It is an amateurishly produced video riddled with mistakes from start to finish and really should not be given the oxygen of publicity on a forum like ours which aims to be as accurate as possible.
She does not say the words "but he didn't exist".  You are making that up.  The two places are in the same location.
You describe it as "11:50 >" but I say https://youtu.be/eBWsaJwBbxw?t=703

703 seconds is 11 minutes 43 secs.  Both are virtually the same starting place.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 19, 2020, 08:50:57 PM
Its right and it appears you have posted this video and havent even watched it.....so how can you have an opinion on it
I find it so interesting that we all heard different things being said in the video.  I can't say I'm hearing it perfectly and when you say something I question that too. 

So does the video support the claim by Davel that " ...it says the police saw the video of the rape."

Now from my own understanding the police never saw the video of the rape.  But let's check the actual words on YouTube.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 08:56:15 PM
I find it so interesting that we all heard different things being said in the video.  I can't say I'm hearing it perfectly and when you say something I question that too.


5.59.....she claims the police checked out the video...no mistake
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 19, 2020, 09:01:18 PM

5.59.....she claims the police checked out the video...no mistake
Have we discussed "Helge" on the forum?  Personally I was a bit surprised by what she is saying here for it wasn't my strong point.

What is Helge's name?  Is he mentioned on our forum?
At about 3:47 the woman starts talking about Helge.
She gives his name as Helge Busching.

Two posts on the forum both by Faithlilly come up in Search. http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11585.msg627121#msg627121
"This appears where the police first hear Brueckner’s name.

‘ Six years later he ( Helge Busching ) was arrested after trying to smuggle migrants between Greece and Italy.

While under investigation he was put in touch with Operation Grange — the Met Police’s team investigating Madeleine’s disappearance — and gave them Christian B’s name.

Greek media reported this summer that their police said he wanted to speak to British cops. Grange detectives flew to Athens to question Busching in 2017.’

He appears to have got 2 years for people trafficking. Seems a pretty light sentence."

and   G-unit's post http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11731.msg619360#msg619360:

"Seyferth, along with another pal Helge Busching, was the key witness in Christian's rape trial in Braunschweig, Germany, last December.

Christian was convicted of attacking a 72-year-old woman in her own home at Praia da Luz in 2005.

The two men nailed him after finding a horrific video in Christian's Portuguese apartment that showed him torturing and then raping the elderly American woman.

Other footage was said to show a young teenage girl tied to a wooden post as she begged for help while he sexually abused her.

We revealed last week that Busching was the key witness to the recent developments after telling cops Christian had confessed to him about taking Madeleine.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12700747/the-climber-christian-b-took-maddie/

It has now been revealed that a man named Helge Busching originally gave Christian B’s name to British police back in 2017.

Mr Busching claimed that Christian B told him in 2008 that he was involved in Madeliene’s disappearance in Praia da Luz the year prior.

British police were made aware of the claim after Mr Busching was arrested in Greece and he said that he wanted to speak to detectives.

He had been arrested in relation to smuggling of migrants between Greece and Italy.
https://extra.ie/2020/09/11/news/real-life/madeleine-mccann-suspect-jail"

Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 09:06:50 PM
Have we discussed "Helga" on the forum?  Personally I was a bit surprised by what she is saying here for it wasn't my strong point.

What is Helga's name?  Is he mentioned on our forum?

The point is the whole video is full of errors
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 19, 2020, 09:15:44 PM
The point is the whole video is full of errors
That is BS and you know it.  Helge seems to have had a video of CB abusing another girl, not the rape victim. So far it was close. Something I didn't understand. Maybe I still don't.  Why did Helge have this video in the first place?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 09:24:08 PM
That is BS and you know it.  Helge seems to have had a video of CB abusing another girl, not the rape victim. So far it was close. Something I didn't understand. Maybe I still don't.  Why did Helge have this video in the first place?
Stop talking rubbish.. It talks about the video of the rape.. You absolutely  don't seem to have a clue about anything
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: jassi on December 19, 2020, 09:26:49 PM
Are you two watching the same video ?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 09:28:00 PM
Are you two watching the same video ?

You would think not... It's just Robs confusion thats the problem
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: jassi on December 19, 2020, 09:30:31 PM
Where abouts on the video does it say that police have seen the rape video - time position ?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 19, 2020, 09:31:34 PM
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11731.msg619361;topicseen#msg619361  in this post Davel quotes G-unit but as usual, doesn't actually comment on the post being quoted.
He says:

"As I've already explained it will be the material/concrete and other circumstantial evidence will potentially convict CB.... It was always going to be an informer that helped solve the case imo"

I find that particularly interesting as Davel uses the same expression as was used yesterday, helped solve.

Stop talking rubbish.. It talks about the video of the rape.. You absolutely  don't seem to have a clue about anything
I have explained that, but did Helge have another video of another potential rape?


You would think not... It's just Robs confusion thats the problem
I'm sure Davel's posts are causing confusion here.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 09:33:15 PM
Where abouts on the video does it say that police have seen the rape video - time position ?

5.59...it says the police checked out the video...
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 09:34:51 PM
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11731.msg619361;topicseen#msg619361  in this post Davel quotes G-unit but as usual, doesn't actually comment on the post being quoted.
He says:

"As I've already explained it will be the material/concrete and other circumstantial evidence will potentially convict CB.... It was always going to be an informer that helped solve the case imo"

I find that particularly interesting as Davel uses the same expression as was used yesterday, helped solve.
 I have explained that, but did Helge have another video of another potential rape?

I'm sure Davel's posts are causing confusion here.
Listen to the video..the lead up about the rape video and you might understand
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 19, 2020, 09:37:09 PM
Where abouts on the video does it say that police have seen the rape video - time position ?
We had done that. 

I have deduced from the posts by G-unit and Faithlilly that:
Helge seems to have had a video of CB abusing another girl, which was not the rape he was charged with.

The video starts talking about Helge at 3:49.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 09:39:28 PM
We had done that. 

I have deduced from the posts by G-unit and Faithlilly that:
Helge seems to have had a video of CB abusing another girl, which was not the rape he was charged with.

The video starts talking about Helge at 3:49.

You don't have to deduce anything it's common knowledge... The video shows the rape of the elderly  woman and another video the rape of a young girl.. Most posters, already know this
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 19, 2020, 09:42:42 PM
have you listened to it...it says the polie saw the video of the rape. Its fairly poor on facts
Write down the exact phrase you hear her say from the video please.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 19, 2020, 09:46:32 PM
Write down the exact phrase you hear her say from the video please.

5.59...they checked out the video and arrested him for the 2005 rape
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 19, 2020, 10:29:12 PM
5.59...they checked out the video and arrested him for the 2005 rape
I'll try and do a transcript:
"In 2017 the police were only too happy to hear from Helge.
They checked out the video and arrested Christian for the 2005 rape.
He's in prison in Germany, serving almost 9 years for that ....."


I'll go back a bit earlier.

4:26
In 2005, brutally raped a 72 year old American woman in her house, not far away from where Madeleine disappeared.  His victim told the police he filmed the attack, and that is what eventually got him caught.
In 2006 Helge and another man stole Christian's video while he was in jail serving time for a robbery charge.  No honour amoung thieves, and what do you know?  They saw the video he made of the rape.

I told you Christian's name has been popping up as a subject in some sick crimes for years, but they were never able to pin anything else on him besides the 2005 rape because of that video tape what Helge had told them.

So a former girlfriend said he sexually abused her 5-year-old daughter in 2013 and 2 years later, German police questioned him about the disappearance of this 5-year-old, Inge Gehricke. In 2016, police searched an abandoned property where he live near the place where Inga had vanished they found 2 USB drives with more than 8,000 images of child porn.  He buried his stash underneath the body of his dog.

They also found his RV and inside were little girls bathing suits and kids clothing, but no hard evidence to connect him to Inga's disappearance, or apparently Madeleine's.  In 2017 the police were only too happy to hear from Helge.
They checked out the video and arrested Christian for the 2005 rape.
He's in prison in Germany, serving almost 9 years for that ....."


Ok she doesn't say the police saw the video, just that they checked it out.  Not quite the same.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 19, 2020, 10:40:55 PM
It is possible she was confused as to which video the police saw in 2017.   Most people are, I'm one of them.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 20, 2020, 12:22:04 AM

I read it but prefer the opinion of the Prosecutor rather than an anonymous poster with  a severe case of confirmation bias who doesnt seem to know the difference between opinion and fact

It was my opinion. It was a piece on German law.

Germany[edit]
The Basic Law (Grundgesetz) for the Federal Republic of Germany protects against double jeopardy if a final verdict is pronounced. A verdict is final if nobody appeals against it.
Nobody shall be punished multiple times for the same crime on the basis of general criminal law.
— Art. 103 (3) GG[22][23]
However, each trial party can appeal against a verdict in the first instance. The prosecution or the defendants can appeal against a judgement if they disagree with it. In this case, the trial starts again in the second instance, the court of appeal (Berufungsgericht), which reconsiders the facts and reasons and delivers a final judgement.
If one of the parties disagrees with the second instance's judgement, they can appeal it only for formal judicial reasons. The case will checked in the third instance (Revisionsgericht), whether all laws are applied correctly.
The rule applies to the whole "historical event, which is usually considered a single historical course of actions the separation of which would seem unnatural". This is true even if new facts occur that indicate other crimes.
The Penal Procedural Code (Strafprozessordnung) permits a retrial (Wiederaufnahmeverfahren), if it is in favor of the defendant or if the following events had happened:
A retrial not in favour of the defendant is permissible after a final judgement,
if a document that was considered authentic during the trial was actually not authentic or forged,
if a witness or authorised expert wilfully or negligently made a wrong deposition or wilfully gave a wrong simple testimony,
if a professional or lay judge, who made the decision, had committed a crime by violating his or her duties as a judge in the case
if an acquitted defendant makes a credible confession in court or out of court.
— § 362 StPO
In the case of an order of summary punishment, which can be issued by the court without a trial for lesser misdemeanours, there is a further exception:
A retrial not in favour of the defendant is also permissible if the defendant has been convicted in a final order of summary punishment and new facts or evidence have been brought forward, which establish grounds for a conviction of a felony by themselves or in combination with earlier evidence.
— § 373a StPO
In Germany, a felony is defined by § 12 (1) StGB as a crime that has a minimum of one year of imprisonment.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 20, 2020, 01:24:54 AM
I have to say that I agree with this.
I'm not your friend any more.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: misty on December 20, 2020, 02:41:05 AM
It is possible she was confused as to which video the police saw in 2017.   Most people are, I'm one of them.

To clarify:-
No police force saw the videos of any rapes carried out by CB.
The video Helge B saw portrayed the rape of an Italian-speaking older woman & a young girl tied to a post.
No video was seen by Helge B or Manfred S portraying the rape of the 72yr old victim DM in Luz, the crime for which CB was convicted in December 2019 in Germany.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 20, 2020, 03:02:55 AM
To clarify:-
No police force saw the videos of any rapes carried out by CB.
The video Helge B saw portrayed the rape of an Italian-speaking older woman & a young girl tied to a post.
No video was seen by Helge B or Manfred S portraying the rape of the 72yr old victim DM in Luz, the crime for which CB was convicted in December 2019 in Germany.
How did you work all that out?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: sadie on December 20, 2020, 03:07:38 AM
To clarify:-
No police force saw the videos of any rapes carried out by CB.
The video Helge B saw portrayed the rape of an Italian-speaking older woman & a young girl tied to a post.
No video was seen by Helge B or Manfred S portraying the rape of the 72yr old victim DM in Luz, the crime for which CB was convicted in December 2019 in Germany.

Interesting observations, misty

I wish I could express myself as clearly as you do.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 20, 2020, 07:03:04 AM
To clarify:-
No police force saw the videos of any rapes carried out by CB.
The video Helge B saw portrayed the rape of an Italian-speaking older woman & a young girl tied to a post.
No video was seen by Helge B or Manfred S portraying the rape of the 72yr old victim DM in Luz, the crime for which CB was convicted in December 2019 in Germany.
To clarify the names:
"Helge Busching and another friend Manfred Seyferth knew Christian B from when they all lived in Praia da Luz, the Portuguese resort where Madeleine was on holiday.
Source https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12638463/witness-mccann-guilty-christian-b/

"the name of suspect Christian Brueckner"

Helga Busching "claims Brueckner told him he was involved in abducting Maddie while they were talking at a kite festival in Orgiva, Spain, in 2008".   https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8720485/Witness-helped-launch-Madeleine-McCann-investigation-says-Christian-Brueckner-guilty.html

"Brueckner's lawyer Friedrich Fulscher said last week that his client was 'innocent' of any involvement in the disappearance of Madeleine.



Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Myster on December 20, 2020, 07:12:09 AM
To clarify the names:
"Helge Busching and another friend Manfred Seyferth knew Christian B from when they all lived in Praia da Luz, the Portuguese resort where Madeleine was on holiday.
Source https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12638463/witness-mccann-guilty-christian-b/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12638463/witness-mccann-guilty-christian-b/)

"the name of suspect Christian Brueckner"

Helga Busching "claims Brueckner told him he was involved in abducting Maddie while they were talking at a kite festival in Orgiva, Spain, in 2008".   https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8720485/Witness-helped-launch-Madeleine-McCann-investigation-says-Christian-Brueckner-guilty.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8720485/Witness-helped-launch-Madeleine-McCann-investigation-says-Christian-Brueckner-guilty.html)

"Brueckner's lawyer Friedrich Fulscher said last week that his client was 'innocent' of any involvement in the disappearance of Madeleine.
I thought you were clarifying?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 20, 2020, 07:22:59 AM
I thought you were clarifying?
Clarify the spelling of their names, if I want to do a Google search. 
Maybe we'd need the names of the victims as well. 
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 20, 2020, 08:41:18 AM
"Portuguese police failed to crack the case at the time but Christian B was arrested 12 years later when two pals reported him after finding disturbing films in his home.

They said the films, which have never been found, showed him raping and torturing the elderly victim.

DNA sample taken from a hair at the scene helped convict him and he was jailed for seven years last December."
From https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11800974/madeleine-mccann-suspect-rape-victim/

the films, which have never been found

Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 20, 2020, 08:54:09 AM
"Portuguese police failed to crack the case at the time but Christian B was arrested 12 years later when two pals reported him after finding disturbing films in his home.

They said the films, which have never been found, showed him raping and torturing the elderly victim.

DNA sample taken from a hair at the scene helped convict him and he was jailed for seven years last December."
From https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11800974/madeleine-mccann-suspect-rape-victim/

the films, which have never been found
We all understand that... And that's why the video you posted is wrong
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: jassi on December 20, 2020, 09:16:29 AM
"Portuguese police failed to crack the case at the time but Christian B was arrested 12 years later when two pals reported him after finding disturbing films in his home.

They said the films, which have never been found, showed him raping and torturing the elderly victim.

DNA sample taken from a hair at the scene helped convict him and he was jailed for seven years last December."
From https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11800974/madeleine-mccann-suspect-rape-victim/

the films, which have never been found

It makes me wonder what ,if anything, in the media  can be believed
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 20, 2020, 09:20:46 AM
"Portuguese police failed to crack the case at the time but Christian B was arrested 12 years later when two pals reported him after finding disturbing films in his home.

They said the films, which have never been found, showed him raping and torturing the elderly victim.

DNA sample taken from a hair at the scene helped convict him and he was jailed for seven years last December."
From https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11800974/madeleine-mccann-suspect-rape-victim/

the films, which have never been found

But we know they existed
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: jassi on December 20, 2020, 09:39:39 AM
If the authorities don't have this video, how can we be sure it existed in the first place ?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 20, 2020, 09:43:09 AM
But we know they existed

Not one of the rape of the 72 year old.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: barrier on December 20, 2020, 09:43:58 AM
"Portuguese police failed to crack the case at the time but Christian B was arrested 12 years later when two pals reported him after finding disturbing films in his home.

They said the films, which have never been found, showed him raping and torturing the elderly victim.

DNA sample taken from a hair at the scene helped convict him and he was jailed for seven years last December."
From https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11800974/madeleine-mccann-suspect-rape-victim/

the films, which have never been found


Did his ex pals testify under oath that they had indeed seen the film?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: G-Unit on December 20, 2020, 09:44:18 AM
But we know they existed

We know that his 'pals' said they existed. Just as someone said that they heard two people on holiday making disturbing comments about Madeleine McCann.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: jassi on December 20, 2020, 09:45:31 AM

Did his ex pals testify under oath that they had indeed seen the film?

They are convicted criminals so can't be believed - isn't that how it goes ?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: barrier on December 20, 2020, 09:46:05 AM
But we know they existed


On whose say so ?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 20, 2020, 09:47:00 AM
I'm not your friend any more.

It is a fact that Moderators automatically approve their own Threads.  There is no choice about it.  So it isn't their fault.

I believe it would be better left to someone else.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 20, 2020, 09:48:46 AM
We know that his 'pals' said they existed. Just as someone said that they heard two people on holiday making disturbing comments about Madeleine McCann.
If you have followed the case you would understand why.  His pals went to the police with details of the rape..where did they get these details from... It could only be the video.  How did they know the rape had been filmed..
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: barrier on December 20, 2020, 09:59:34 AM
They are convicted criminals so can't be believed - isn't that how it goes ?


So the alleged involvement of CB which comes from his supposed criminal pals can't be believed , so dark the con of man, they've got some on here hooked ~ in my opinion.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 20, 2020, 10:18:40 AM
If you have followed the case you would understand why.  His pals went to the police with details of the rape..where did they get these details from... It could only be the video.  How did they know the rape had been filmed..

Was it ? There’s certainly no film of it. The film they found was of two entirely different people.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 20, 2020, 10:23:23 AM
Was it ? There’s certainly no film of it. The film they found was of two entirely different people.

do you have acite for that....misty's post doesnt count as  arelaible cite
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 20, 2020, 10:25:04 AM
If the authorities don't have this video, how can we be sure it existed in the first place ?
It’s very simple to work out, see if you can...
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 20, 2020, 10:37:44 AM
We all understand that... And that's why the video you posted is wrong
But did Brueckner have more than one video?  Could there be a video of another sexual abuse scene? 
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 20, 2020, 10:39:44 AM
But did Brueckner have more than one video?  Could there be a video of another sexual abuse scene?

After the two burglars reported the material to the police, the investigators sifted through all the old cases from the region - and came across the American. Although the American had not recognized him, a body hair was the German's undoing. This was found on the victim's sheets.

However, the footage never appeared after that. The men said they left the videotapes in a motor home. The vehicle was later scrapped. The investigators saw no reason to doubt the statements of the witnesses. Especially since the procedure described resembles the descriptions of the American.


https://www.blick.ch/ausland/deutscher-43-vergewaltigte-72-jaehrige-so-brutal-ist-der-verdaechtige-im-fall-maddie-id15920819.html
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 20, 2020, 10:43:48 AM
Not one of the rape of the 72 year old.
But apparently it was the one hair at the scene that becomes the main evidence against him.  As Davel has cited.
After the two burglars reported the material to the police, the investigators sifted through all the old cases from the region - and came across the American. Although the American had not recognized him, a body hair was the German's undoing. This was found on the victim's sheets.

However, the footage never appeared after that. The men said they left the videotapes in a motor home. The vehicle was later scrapped. The investigators saw no reason to doubt the statements of the witnesses. Especially since the procedure described resembles the descriptions of the American.


https://www.blick.ch/ausland/deutscher-43-vergewaltigte-72-jaehrige-so-brutal-ist-der-verdaechtige-im-fall-maddie-id15920819.html
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 20, 2020, 10:47:17 AM
It is a fact that Moderators automatically approve their own Threads.  There is no choice about it.  So it isn't their fault.

I believe it would be better left to someone else.
But there is actually nothing wrong with this thread.  That is my point.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 20, 2020, 10:47:36 AM
But apparently it was the one hair at the scene that becomes the main evidence against him.  As Davel has cited.

Ah yes...the hair.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 20, 2020, 10:49:47 AM
If you have followed the case you would understand why.  His pals went to the police with details of the rape..where did they get these details from... It could only be the video.  How did they know the rape had been filmed..
His friend said Christian B. spoke about the crime first (at some festival), then later they found the tape IIRC.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 20, 2020, 10:52:49 AM
Ah yes...the hair.
So was that hair kept as evidence by the Portuguese police all that time?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 20, 2020, 10:57:57 AM
His friend said Christian B. spoke about the crime first (at some festival), then later they found the tape IIRC.

cite required
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 20, 2020, 11:02:53 AM
cite required
I don't claim it as a fact, see I say IIRC  (if I recall correctly).

Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 20, 2020, 11:02:58 AM
But there is actually nothing wrong with this thread.  That is my point.

I never said there was anything wrong with this Thread.  And someone would have approved it anyway.

And since there is nothing to be done about the current system short of leaving All Approvals to John or Admin then no doubt it will continue.

No one on this Forum wants to have to wait even 24 Hours for John or Admin to have the time.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 20, 2020, 11:05:21 AM
I never said there was anything wrong with this Thread.  And someone would have approved it anyway.

And since there is nothing to be done about the current system short of leaving All Approvals to John or Admin then no doubt it will continue.

No one on this Forum wants to have to wait even 24 Hours for John or Admin to have the time.
Do you remember this post from Davel?  http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11844.msg632435#msg632435
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 20, 2020, 11:09:44 AM
Do you remember this post from Davel?  http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11844.msg632435#msg632435
i think thats quite  areasonable post...imo some of your recent threads have been very poor quality...remember stan...how is he...and i still think the Myasia thread has no place on this forum
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 20, 2020, 11:13:18 AM
His friend said Christian B. spoke about the crime first (at some festival), then later they found the tape IIRC.
In this article:
"In a redacted statement seen by The Sun, he claims Christian B, 43, told him he was involved in her 2007 abduction.

Busching said the revelation emerged in 2008 when they were at a kite festival in Orgiva, Spain."

So my memory wasn't that good.  It was the revelation of his involvement with Madeleine McCann that was associated with the Kite Festival in Orgiva, Spain.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12638463/witness-mccann-guilty-christian-b/
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 20, 2020, 11:17:17 AM
In this article:
"In a redacted statement seen by The Sun, he claims Christian B, 43, told him he was involved in her 2007 abduction.

Busching said the revelation emerged in 2008 when they were at a kite festival in Orgiva, Spain."

So my memory wasn't that good.  It was the revelation of his involvement with Madeleine McCann that was associated with the Kite Festival in Orgiva, Spain.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12638463/witness-mccann-guilty-christian-b/

thank you Rob
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 20, 2020, 11:18:24 AM
Do you remember this post from Davel?  http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11844.msg632435#msg632435

I do think it would be better if Moderators couldn't Approve their own Threads.  But as I have said, there is nothing to be done about it.

Except perhaps a little more thought before starting a New Thread.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 20, 2020, 11:19:28 AM
i think thats quite  areasonable post...imo some of your recent threads have been very poor quality...remember stan...how is he...and i still think the Myasia thread has no place on this forum

Rob isn't the only one.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 20, 2020, 11:22:04 AM
thank you Rob
The question remains when did Helge Busching and his friend steal the video camera and see Christian B's rape tapes?  Was it before or after Madeleine McCann went missing?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 20, 2020, 11:22:25 AM
Rob isn't the only one.

You're right
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 20, 2020, 11:26:13 AM
The question remains when did Helge Busching and his friend steal the video camera and see Christian B's rape tapes?  Was it before or after Madeleine McCann went missing?

according to the mail..

Manfred S. told the broadcaster that when Brueckner was jailed for diesel theft in 2015, he took the opportunity to rob his home with another friend.

He says they discovered a video camera there which had on its tape footage of Brueckner raping the elderly woman.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 20, 2020, 11:31:14 AM
The question remains when did Helge Busching and his friend steal the video camera and see Christian B's rape tapes?  Was it before or after Madeleine McCann went missing?

"Busching and Seyferth are said to have stolen a video camera in Christian B’s home while he was in jail for theft. They contacted police after seeing the images and told them it was Christian B."
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12638463/witness-mccann-guilty-christian-b/

They didn't contact the police immediately; wasn't it 13 years later?

according to the mail..

Manfred S. told the broadcaster that when Brueckner was jailed for diesel theft in 2015, he took the opportunity to rob his home with another friend.

He says they discovered a video camera there which had on its tape footage of Brueckner raping the elderly woman.
You can just about guarantee that that is BS.  No one keeps the same tape in a video camera for 10 years IMO.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 20, 2020, 11:33:42 AM
"Busching and Seyferth are said to have stolen a video camera in Christian B’s home while he was in jail for theft. They contacted police after seeing the images and told them it was Christian B."
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12638463/witness-mccann-guilty-christian-b/

They didn't contact the police immediately; wasn't it 13 years later?
You can just about guarantee that that is BS.  No one keeps the same tape in a video camera for 10 years IMO.

your opinion...he was convicted partly on that evidence....fact
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: G-Unit on December 20, 2020, 11:37:14 AM
The question remains when did Helge Busching and his friend steal the video camera and see Christian B's rape tapes?  Was it before or after Madeleine McCann went missing?

It was when Brueckner was in prison in Portugal for diesel theft, so before. IMO
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 20, 2020, 11:38:55 AM
It was when Brueckner was in prison in Portugal for diesel theft, so before.

cite required...you cannot really modify other posters posts and not provide a cite yourself

no cite given as expected
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: barrier on December 20, 2020, 12:16:01 PM
your opinion...he was convicted partly on that evidence....fact

Is there a transcript of the trial and prosecution case so we can judge for ourselves, asking for a cite would be futile.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 20, 2020, 12:18:33 PM
Is there a transcript of the trial and prosecution case so we can judge for ourselves, asking for a cite would be futile.

No there isnt and thats why I see it as futile to claim CB was convicted only on the evidence of the hair.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: barrier on December 20, 2020, 12:24:57 PM
No there isnt and thats why I see it as futile to claim CB was convicted only on the evidence of the hair.

So you know nothing then, thats another cleared up .
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 20, 2020, 12:26:33 PM
So you know nothing then, thats another cleared up .

Its faith who is making claims not me. I know as a fact he was convicted...thats hardly nothing
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 20, 2020, 12:56:20 PM
So was that hair kept as evidence by the Portuguese police all that time?

Yep, that’s what we’ve been told.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Brietta on December 20, 2020, 03:00:50 PM
It is a fact that Moderators automatically approve their own Threads.  There is no choice about it.  So it isn't their fault.

I believe it would be better left to someone else.

I agree without criticism of all moderator led threads; some I think have been an asset encouraging discussion; some I have found to be abysmal.

Also there is the issue of moderators 'taking ownership'.  Members are outweighed (I think) when it comes to starting threads and these are the guys and gals who make the forum work and give it credibility ~ not us.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Brietta on December 20, 2020, 03:19:40 PM
No there isnt and thats why I see it as futile to claim CB was convicted only on the evidence of the hair.

In my opinion the provenance of the chain of evidence wasn't challenged if Brueckner suggested that his pubic hair could have been carried into the victim's bed by her cat which he stroked in passing her villa.

Which raises two questions for me Just doing his homework?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 20, 2020, 04:56:53 PM
In my opinion the provenance of the chain of evidence wasn't challenged if Brueckner suggested that his pubic hair could have been carried into the victim's bed by her cat which he stroked in passing her villa.

Which raises two questions for me
  • how did he know she owned a cat
  • how did he know it was that particular cat
Just doing his homework?

Or did she actually own a cat?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 20, 2020, 05:01:42 PM
Or did she actually own a cat?

You don't mean Brueckner was lying, do you?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 20, 2020, 06:27:45 PM
your opinion...he was convicted partly on that evidence....fact
IMO It wouldn't be a first that someone's conviction was partly based on the testimony of witnesses or even expert witnesses that were less than honest.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 20, 2020, 06:28:50 PM
To clarify:-
No police force saw the videos of any rapes carried out by CB.
The video Helge B saw portrayed the rape of an Italian-speaking older woman & a young girl tied to a post.
No video was seen by Helge B or Manfred S portraying the rape of the 72yr old victim DM in Luz, the crime for which CB was convicted in December 2019 in Germany.

hi misty...when you have time could you please supply a cite to support your claim
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 20, 2020, 06:30:37 PM
IMO It wouldn't be a first that someone's conviction was partly based on the testimony of witnesses or even expert witnesses that were less than honest.

Before making any such judgements you would need  a lot more information...which we dont have. without that you are making an unfounded allegation against the German justice system
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 20, 2020, 06:32:27 PM
IMO It wouldn't be a first that someone's conviction was partly based on the testimony of witnesses or even expert witnesses that were less than honest.

I think you need to do a lot more research...start with the Michael stone case. AFAIAA all police forces use informers...most who come from a criminal background...imo...although cites supporting this have already been posted
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 20, 2020, 06:50:47 PM
I think you need to do a lot more research...start with the Michael stone case. AFAIAA all police forces use informers...most who come from a criminal background...imo...although cites supporting this have already been posted

But we know what happened in the Michael Stone case don’t we? Shall I post the cite again ?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 20, 2020, 07:19:22 PM
hi misty...when you have time could you please supply a cite to support your claim
It would be multiple citations followed by analysis.  Are you going to accept it?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 20, 2020, 07:21:53 PM
I think you need to do a lot more research...start with the Michael stone case. AFAIAA all police forces use informers...most who come from a criminal background...imo...although cites supporting this have already been posted
Do you really think Brueckner left that incriminating video in his video camera for 10 years?  That is beyond belief IMO.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 20, 2020, 07:23:07 PM
It would be multiple citations followed by analysis.  Are you going to accept it?

could you let misty answer the post....cites are required...not excuses
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 20, 2020, 07:25:34 PM
I don’t think one needs to be Sherlock Holmes to work out who gave you the warnings tbh...
Please leave her alone.  Leave the Moderators to do their work in peace. Love etc. Without hate, free of Karma.


could you let misty answer the post....cites are required...not excuses
I was correcting your English - there won't be one cite but multiple citations and analysis.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 20, 2020, 07:30:22 PM
Please leave her alone.  Leave the Moderators to do their work in peace. Love etc. Without hate, free of Karma.

I was correcting your English - there won't be one cite but multiple citations and analysis.

thats fine but without a cite it cant be claimed as a fact.  It really is simple
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 20, 2020, 08:16:12 PM
thats fine but without a cite it cant be claimed as a fact.  It really is simple
Was it ever claimed as a fact?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 20, 2020, 08:20:43 PM
Was it ever claimed as a fact?

yes
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 20, 2020, 08:24:54 PM
yes
I think Misty presented her analysis. Was it Faithlilly who quoted it?  VS objected to it.  And we argue the validity of it.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 20, 2020, 08:26:39 PM
I think Misty presented her analysis. Was it Faithlilly who quoted it?  VS objected to it.  And we argue the validity of it.

I didnt argue anything..try and get your facts right... I merely asked for  acite
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 20, 2020, 08:30:59 PM
I didnt argue anything..try and get your facts right... I merely asked for  a cite
If you agreed with it would you still ask for a cite?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 20, 2020, 08:35:46 PM
If you agreed with it would you still ask for a cite?


I dont think its true...why is it that when im asked to provide  a cite my post is altered...but when I ask for a cite it creates  a50 post discussion. Just ask misty to provide a cite
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 20, 2020, 09:02:34 PM
I think Misty presented her analysis. Was it Faithlilly who quoted it?  VS objected to it.  And we argue the validity of it.
I objected to Faithlilly using another member’s post (which in itself contained no cite) to try and make a point.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 20, 2020, 09:03:58 PM
I objected to Faithlilly using another member’s post (which in itself contained no cite) to try and make a point.
But did you think Misty's analysis to be wrong?  I admit I couldn't tell if it was right or wrong as I don't follow the news about CB that intently.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 20, 2020, 09:05:48 PM
Please leave her alone.  Leave the Moderators to do their work in peace. Love etc. Without hate, free of Karma.

I was correcting your English - there won't be one cite but multiple citations and analysis.
What’s the big deal?  I simply said it’s pretty obvious who handed out the warning, why so sensitive?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 20, 2020, 09:17:45 PM
What’s the big deal?  I simply said it’s pretty obvious who handed out the warning, why so sensitive?
I might think you are talking about me and get all hateful again. 
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: G-Unit on December 20, 2020, 09:21:25 PM
I think you take this far too seriously......Moderators have tried o intimidate me...and they have come and gone...thats a fact ...not opinion

I'm not the one taking things too seriously and making snide comments about someone.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 20, 2020, 09:29:04 PM
I'm not the one taking things too seriously and making snide comments about someone.

snide comments... ive had  a mod tell me he hates me ...LOL
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 20, 2020, 10:36:19 PM
snide comments... ive had  a mod tell me he hates me ...LOL
Love thy enemies.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: barrier on December 21, 2020, 06:00:32 AM
snide comments... ive had  a mod tell me he hates me ...LOL
Not to worry, I'll keep a place in hell for you if I pass on first.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 21, 2020, 06:25:50 AM
It was when Brueckner was in prison in Portugal for diesel theft, so before. IMO
What I read it was after not before Madeleine went missing.  It seems a story poorly told.  For what is the point of timing something by when CB is in prison,  as there might be more than one occurrance.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 21, 2020, 06:30:39 AM
I think you take this far too seriously......Moderators have tried o intimidate me...and they have come and gone...thats a fact ...not opinion
One daY WE MAY SAY THE SAME FOR YOU.  He was here for a while but now he's gone.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11844.msg632711#msg632711
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 21, 2020, 06:34:17 AM
I didnt argue anything..try and get your facts right... I merely asked for a cite
 
There was a rule about asking for unnecessary cites.
You'll probably be asking for a cite for this too.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 21, 2020, 06:35:31 AM

I dont think its true...why is it that when im asked to provide  a cite my post is altered...but when I ask for a cite it creates  a50 post discussion. Just ask misty to provide a cite
I was the first to do so.  But if she's not here to read the request what can we do?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Brietta on December 21, 2020, 09:02:30 AM
I was the first to do so.  But if she's not here to read the request what can we do?

We can begin to act like adults and behave amicably towards each other ~ starting from now with every member resolving not to make goading or personal remarks and by sticking to the thread topic of whichever thread it is we are posting on.
This is the season of good will to all ~ just following forum protocols will go a long way towards establishing that and ensuring that excellent posters like Misty feel encouragement to spend more time on a forum which in my opinion is rapidly being turned into a bear pit.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 21, 2020, 09:04:05 AM
I was the first to do so.  But if she's not here to read the request what can we do?

We can wait. I'm genuinely interested in what Misty has to say.. I would like her to expand
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 21, 2020, 09:09:21 AM
What facts do we agree on, like undisputed facts about Christian Brueckner?

Then I suppose we could list the disputed facts.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: misty on December 21, 2020, 01:32:50 PM
https://news.sky.com/story/the-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann-have-they-got-the-right-man-this-time-12068118
*snipped*
Crucial evidence from the two witnesses was their story of breaking into Christian B's house and stealing homemade videos of him raping several victims, though not the American widow.

But the court was not shown the videos and one of the witnesses told the judges the tapes had been destroyed in a caravan blaze.

Mr Fulscher said: "What makes it worse is that the witnesses weren't questioned for long. The whole case took only three days.

"I would have spent three days just questioning one of the witnesses. The videos were not shown in court, where they are is a mystery."

===============================================================
This information comes from CB's current lawyer, Fulscher.
German & Portuguese police combined to look at unsolved rape cases on the Algarve during the period before CB came out of jail in 2006, which is what led them to the DM case.
My concern is why no DNA evidence was ever harvested from the rope, bedding, clothing or reported hair which PJ retained. The forensic evidence in the Behan rape was also destroyed around 5-6 weeks before Madeleine was taken. 2 unsolved rapes, 2 missing children, all within the space of 3 years which fell under the jurisdiction of the same set of PJ officers.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 21, 2020, 01:36:16 PM
https://news.sky.com/story/the-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann-have-they-got-the-right-man-this-time-12068118
*snipped*
Crucial evidence from the two witnesses was their story of breaking into Christian B's house and stealing homemade videos of him raping several victims, though not the American widow.

But the court was not shown the videos and one of the witnesses told the judges the tapes had been destroyed in a caravan blaze.

Mr Fulscher said: "What makes it worse is that the witnesses weren't questioned for long. The whole case took only three days.

"I would have spent three days just questioning one of the witnesses. The videos were not shown in court, where they are is a mystery."

===============================================================
This information comes from CB's current lawyer, Fulscher.
German & Portuguese police combined to look at unsolved rape cases on the Algarve during the period before CB came out of jail in 2006, which is what led them to the DM case.
My concern is why no DNA evidence was ever harvested from the rope, bedding, clothing or reported hair which PJ retained. The forensic evidence in the Behan rape was also destroyed around 5-6 weeks before Madeleine was taken. 2 unsolved rapes, 2 missing children, all within the space of 3 years which fell under the jurisdiction of the same set of PJ officers.

Thank you Misty. Very interesting.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: G-Unit on December 21, 2020, 01:47:05 PM
https://news.sky.com/story/the-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann-have-they-got-the-right-man-this-time-12068118
*snipped*
Crucial evidence from the two witnesses was their story of breaking into Christian B's house and stealing homemade videos of him raping several victims, though not the American widow.

But the court was not shown the videos and one of the witnesses told the judges the tapes had been destroyed in a caravan blaze.

Mr Fulscher said: "What makes it worse is that the witnesses weren't questioned for long. The whole case took only three days.

"I would have spent three days just questioning one of the witnesses. The videos were not shown in court, where they are is a mystery."

===============================================================
This information comes from CB's current lawyer, Fulscher.
German & Portuguese police combined to look at unsolved rape cases on the Algarve during the period before CB came out of jail in 2006, which is what led them to the DM case.
My concern is why no DNA evidence was ever harvested from the rope, bedding, clothing or reported hair which PJ retained. The forensic evidence in the Behan rape was also destroyed around 5-6 weeks before Madeleine was taken. 2 unsolved rapes, 2 missing children, all within the space of 3 years which fell under the jurisdiction of the same set of PJ officers.

They don't seem to have convinced Brunt that they have the right man, do they?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: misty on December 21, 2020, 01:53:44 PM
They don't seem to have convinced Brunt that they have the right man, do they?

IMO the German police have the right man for Madeleine's murder but there is far more to this case than that.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 21, 2020, 01:58:45 PM
They don't seem to have convinced Brunt that they have the right man, do they?

Is Martin Brunt's opinion important do you think?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: jassi on December 21, 2020, 02:28:50 PM
Is Martin Brunt's opinion important do you think?

As a professional crime journalist he's probably better informed than the 'experts' on here - IMO
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: John on December 21, 2020, 02:31:14 PM
Apologies for interrupting the debate. I want to take this opportunity to wish everyone a very Merry Christmas despite the awful year past endured by everyone to various degrees. I also want to thank everyone who has taken part in the debates also to varying degrees and to varying degrees of naughtiness at times. It would be a dull forum without all these little diversions and banter we often see. Thank you all for taking part.

Please go safe wherever you are around the world.

Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 21, 2020, 02:45:12 PM
As a professional crime journalist he's probably better informed than the 'experts' on here - IMO

Brenda Leyland as well?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: jassi on December 21, 2020, 03:00:02 PM
Brenda Leyland as well?

As well as what ?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 21, 2020, 03:09:42 PM
They don't seem to have convinced Brunt that they have the right man, do they?

I don't  know because he didn't say... But who cares, what Brunt thinks.  To me it seems blindingly obvious that Wolters has some pretty serious, evidence which as I showed yesterday will be disclosed once CB is questioned
Some very interesting  times, ahead
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 21, 2020, 03:41:15 PM
To clarify:-
No police force saw the videos of any rapes carried out by CB.
The video Helge B saw portrayed the rape of an Italian-speaking older woman & a young girl tied to a post.
No video was seen by Helge B or Manfred S portraying the rape of the 72yr old victim DM in Luz, the crime for which CB was convicted in December 2019 in Germany.

Hi misty...dare I ask where your info re this video came from?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: G-Unit on December 21, 2020, 03:49:30 PM
I don't  know because he didn't say... But who cares, what Brunt thinks.  To me it seems blindingly obvious that Wolters has some pretty serious, evidence which as I showed yesterday will be disclosed once CB is questioned
Some very interesting  times, ahead

Wolters will not question CB at all unless he gets more evidence;

 "We have found nothing in the past three months to make us think we've got the wrong suspect, but the evidence we have now is the same we had when we made our first appeal on 3 June...

"We have had hundreds of calls - 400 to us and hundreds to Scotland Yard - but we haven't got the information we need to charge Christian B. But there are some clues that make us hopeful our investigation will be more successful," he added.
https://news.sky.com/story/the-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann-have-they-got-the-right-man-this-time-12068118
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 21, 2020, 03:53:44 PM
Wolters will not question CB at all unless he gets more evidence;

 "We have found nothing in the past three months to make us think we've got the wrong suspect, but the evidence we have now is the same we had when we made our first appeal on 3 June...

"We have had hundreds of calls - 400 to us and hundreds to Scotland Yard - but we haven't got the information we need to charge Christian B. But there are some clues that make us hopeful our investigation will be more successful," he added.
https://news.sky.com/story/the-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann-have-they-got-the-right-man-this-time-12068118


Thats your opinion ......my opinion is that at some stage he will accept the evidence they have and question.

I dont think you can take what is in a news article as fact. I found Brunts article quite unimpressive and it is 3 months old.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 21, 2020, 04:05:49 PM

Thats your opinion ......my opinion is that at some stage he will accept the evidence they have and question.

I dont think you can take what is in a news article as fact. I found Brunts article quite unimpressive and it is 3 months old.

I don't know if Wolters will question Brueckner, but I hope he does.  And I don't see how he can't, eventually.

Not questioning Brueckner will get him absolutely nowhere, so what difference will it make?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 21, 2020, 04:10:53 PM
I don't know if Wolters will question Brueckner, but I hope he does.  And I don't see how he can't, eventually.

Not questioning Brueckner will get him absolutely nowhere, so what difference will it make?

if he questions him he will have to arrest him and therefore disclose all his evidence...this is what he doesnt want to do at the moment.

Then as wolters has said...he will only question him when he is ready to charge him in order to give him as little time as possible to make counter arguments
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Brietta on December 21, 2020, 04:13:41 PM
Wolters will not question CB at all unless he gets more evidence;

 "We have found nothing in the past three months to make us think we've got the wrong suspect, but the evidence we have now is the same we had when we made our first appeal on 3 June...

"We have had hundreds of calls - 400 to us and hundreds to Scotland Yard - but we haven't got the information we need to charge Christian B. But there are some clues that make us hopeful our investigation will be more successful," he added.
https://news.sky.com/story/the-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann-have-they-got-the-right-man-this-time-12068118
Madeleine McCann prime suspect Christian Brueckner, 43, WILL be questioned by police, German prosecutors sayBy HENRY MARTIN FOR MAILONLINE
PUBLISHED: 10:48, 20 December 2020
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9072319/Madeleine-McCann-prime-suspect-Christian-Brueckner-43-questioned-prosecutors-say.html
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 21, 2020, 04:21:10 PM
if he questions him he will have to arrest him and therefore disclose all his evidence...this is what he doesnt want to do at the moment.

Then as wolters has said...he will only question him when he is ready to charge him in order to give him as little time as possible to make counter arguments

At the moment.  He has got plenty of time.

So eventually, if nothing else is found, Arrest him, Charge him and take it to Court.  If Brueckner refuses to speak or make a plea then it will not look good.

What else to be done if there is no further Evidence?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: misty on December 21, 2020, 04:58:34 PM
Hi misty...dare I ask where your info re this video came from?

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/madeleine-mccann-german-prisoner-identified-as-suspect-18.542225/page-10#post-16356431 (DLK79) - this corroborates what had previously been posted.
I would need to search for the original German news report on the forum but there are 22 threads on Websleuths about CB.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 21, 2020, 05:11:12 PM
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/madeleine-mccann-german-prisoner-identified-as-suspect-18.542225/page-10#post-16356431 (DLK79) - this corroborates what had previously been posted.
I would need to search for the original German news report on the forum but there are 22 threads on Websleuths about CB.


Thats....this one seems to be saying the film is of the rape of the american woman...the german papers we ahve seen refer to the american woman...its all a bit confusing....not that any of it really matters, the court didnt seem to have any doubt  of CBs guilt.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: misty on December 21, 2020, 05:20:18 PM

Thats....this one seems to be saying the film is of the rape of the american woman...the german papers we ahve seen refer to the american woman...its all a bit confusing....not that any of it really matters, the court didnt seem to have any doubt  of CBs guilt.

You need to read it again. Only the MO was similar.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 21, 2020, 05:26:03 PM
You need to read it again. Only the MO was similar.

I think i need to see the press reports rather than just posters opinions...Ill have  a look but it says this



I’m reading this different, I am reading the above quote as either HB or MS are saying that they viewed footage of the rape of DM, the man then sat on the bed & removed his mask..
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 21, 2020, 06:16:23 PM
The question I'm asking is, did Misty provide the cites we wanted?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11844.msg632467#msg632467
Where Misty said:
"To clarify:-
No police force saw the videos of any rapes carried out by CB.
The video Helge B saw portrayed the rape of an Italian-speaking older woman & a young girl tied to a post.
No video was seen by Helge B or Manfred S portraying the rape of the 72yr old victim DM in Luz, the crime for which CB was convicted in December 2019 in Germany."

Are we all happy to call these statements fact?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: jassi on December 21, 2020, 06:23:23 PM
At the moment.  He has got plenty of time.

So eventually, if nothing else is found, Arrest him, Charge him and take it to Court.  If Brueckner refuses to speak or make a plea then it will not look good.

What else to be done if there is no further Evidence?

I don't suppose he is going to say anything until he knows what he is being charged with.
In a similar situation, would you ?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 21, 2020, 06:26:52 PM
I don't suppose he is going to say anything until he knows what he is being charged with.
In a similar situation, would you ?

According to his Lawyer it appears to be a bit more serious than that, I believe.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 21, 2020, 06:29:55 PM
We all understand that... And that's why the video you posted is wrong
Wrong in what aspect.  We need specifics here.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: jassi on December 21, 2020, 06:31:00 PM
According to his Lawyer it appears to be a bit more serious than that, I believe.

Well he would say that - (Mandy Rice-Davies)

His lawyer isn't going to give anything away at present.
When charged, Brueckner's position might change.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 21, 2020, 06:32:21 PM
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/madeleine-mccann-german-prisoner-identified-as-suspect-18.542225/page-10#post-16356431 (DLK79) - this corroborates what had previously been posted.
I would need to search for the original German news report on the forum but there are 22 threads on Websleuths about CB.
I’d like to see that because every German newspaper report I have seen about Christian B which refernces the video claims that the American woman features in the video.  If they are wrong then that means there is another seventy. year old rape victim of CB’s who has yet to be identified.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 21, 2020, 06:35:08 PM

Did his ex pals testify under oath that they had indeed seen the film?
How would they know which person was being raped and what their age was?    The question that is going in my head is, were the camera operators the ones who later destroyed the video evidence.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: barrier on December 21, 2020, 06:41:00 PM
How would which person was being raped and what their age was?    The question that is going in my head is, were the camera operators the ones who later destroyed the video evidence.

Bit muddled that Rob, but I think I know what you mean.
How would they know who was the victim was and her age?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 21, 2020, 06:42:50 PM
Under forum rules, if you don't provide cites your original posts can be deleted.  (I'd better go back and do it before they get re-quoted.)
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 21, 2020, 06:44:04 PM
How would which person was being raped and what their age was?    The question that is going in my head is, were the camera operators the ones who later destroyed the video evidence.

There were no camera operators
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 21, 2020, 06:45:42 PM
There were no camera operators
How do you know that?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: jassi on December 21, 2020, 06:46:15 PM
I’d like to see that because every German newspaper report I have seen about Christian B which refernces the video claims that the American woman features in the video.  If they are wrong then that means there is another seventy. year old rape victim of CB’s who has yet to be identified.

It might mean they just made that bit up.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: barrier on December 21, 2020, 06:46:27 PM
There were no camera operators

The first part, how was the victim identified, by those that allegedly saw the film ?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 21, 2020, 06:46:44 PM
Under forum rules, if you don't provide cites your original posts can be deleted.  (I'd better go back and do it before they get re-quoted.)

Delete if you wish...
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 21, 2020, 06:47:22 PM
The first part, how was the victim identified, by those that allegedly saw the film ?

Don't you know... I do
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: barrier on December 21, 2020, 06:48:08 PM
Delete if you wish... If it makes your sad little life any better

Get a room, you two.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: barrier on December 21, 2020, 06:48:35 PM
Don't you know... I do

Remind the reader then.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 21, 2020, 06:49:09 PM
Get a room, you two.

A cage would be better
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 21, 2020, 06:50:17 PM
Bit muddled that Rob, but I think I know what you mean.
How would they know who was the victim was and her age?
Thanks edited version: http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11844.msg632834#msg632834
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: jassi on December 21, 2020, 06:50:44 PM
There were no camera operators

You mean there was no zoom in for the money shot ?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 21, 2020, 06:51:39 PM
Remind the reader then.
It doesn't seem to be appreciated when I bring useful  information to the forum so I'll pass on that.
What do you think about the mccanns leaving the children and not hiring a babysitter
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 21, 2020, 06:52:17 PM
Delete if you wish... If it makes your sad little life any better
Thanks, mate.  I'll remember that.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 21, 2020, 06:53:19 PM
Don't you know... I do
Tell us then.  Don't keep us in suspenders.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: jassi on December 21, 2020, 06:54:37 PM
Tell us then.  Don't keep us in suspenders.

All mouth, no substance.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 21, 2020, 06:55:11 PM
Thanks, mate.  I'll remember that.

Delete them all if it makes you feel better... The moving finger writes and having writ moves on
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: barrier on December 21, 2020, 06:55:25 PM
Tell us then.  Don't keep us in suspenders.

Each to his own Rob, each to his own.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 21, 2020, 06:56:00 PM
Tell us then.  Don't keep us in suspenders.

Show some respect and I might
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 21, 2020, 06:57:56 PM
Show some respect and I might
That's quite provocative Davel.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 21, 2020, 06:58:36 PM
That's quite provocative Davel.

No it isnt... It's a fact not an opinion
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 21, 2020, 06:59:45 PM
No it isnt
We'll see what the other's say.  The jury is out for deliberation at the moment.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 21, 2020, 07:00:24 PM
We'll see what the other's say.  The jury is out for deliberation at the moment.

Let's see

Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 21, 2020, 07:04:42 PM
Who cares
You do.  You're as sensitive as a ....

""You're too sensitive."
It's a statement I've heard all my life. Depending on the context, it's either meant as an insult or offered as well-meaning feedback. Regardless of the intention, I'm always left with the same feelings: Toughen up. Be stronger. Bury your emotions. Be different than who you are."  https://www.thegoodtrade.com/features/am-i-too-sensitive
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 21, 2020, 07:07:16 PM
It might mean they just made that bit up.
Bit of a coincidence then.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 21, 2020, 07:07:53 PM
You do.  You're as sensitive as a ....

""You're too sensitive."
It's a statement I've heard all my life. Depending on the context, it's either meant as an insult or offered as well-meaning feedback. Regardless of the intention, I'm always left with the same feelings: Toughen up. Be stronger. Bury your emotions. Be different than who you are."  https://www.thegoodtrade.com/features/am-i-too-sensitive
Not sure what makes you imagine you can offer me any advice... I haven't seen any wisdom in any of your posts
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 21, 2020, 07:08:01 PM
You mean there was no zoom in for the money shot ?
Inappropriate.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: jassi on December 21, 2020, 07:08:53 PM
Inappropriate.

In what way ? It was a porn video. They usually build up to a climax
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 21, 2020, 07:09:46 PM
You mean there was no zoom in for the money shot ?
If only the judge could see a video. I wonder if a video is what HCW is holding onto.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 21, 2020, 07:10:44 PM
If only the judge could see a video.

Obviously  didn't need to... Guilty verdict
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: jassi on December 21, 2020, 07:11:09 PM
If only the judge could see a video.

Alas it wasn't available, apparently. Such a loss to mankind.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: jassi on December 21, 2020, 07:20:01 PM
If only the judge could see a video. I wonder if a video is what HCW is holding onto.

Unless it features Madeleine, it's of little value - IMO

Meanwhile those poor McCann are left in limbo - out of the loop, it would seem.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 21, 2020, 07:29:19 PM
In what way ? It was a porn video. They usually build up to a climax
It was a video of a serious sexual assault against an old woman by a violent assailant and you are making a joke of it.  Inappropriate.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: jassi on December 21, 2020, 07:33:23 PM
It was a video of a serious sexual assault against an old woman by a violent assailant and you are making a joke of it.  Inappropriate.

Lighten up.
From what Misty says, it might never have existed.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 21, 2020, 07:35:58 PM
Obviously didn't need to... Guilty verdict
Right how far through the video have we got? 
https://youtu.be/eBWsaJwBbxw  "Meet (most of!) the suspects in the Madeleine McCann case"
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 21, 2020, 07:44:16 PM
She's saying the hidden cellar was 15 feet underground  That is seriously deep IMO.  Are you guys still measuring things in feet and inches?


15 feet!  Is that to the top or to the floor level of this cellar?  I find this incredible.  What was CB doing with such a deep cellar?

When was that dug?  https://youtu.be/eBWsaJwBbxw?t=419

(2008 was the last time Christian B was living there.)
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: jassi on December 21, 2020, 07:48:56 PM
She's saying the hidden cellar was 15 feet underground  That is seriously deep IMO.  Are you guys still measuring things in feet and inches?


15 feet!  Is that to the top or to the floor level of this cellar?  I find this incredible.  What was CB doing with such a deep cellar?

When was that dug?  https://youtu.be/eBWsaJwBbxw?t=419

Maybe it was there before he went there.
I suggested, a while ago, that it might have been an air raid shelter.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 21, 2020, 07:56:57 PM
Maybe it was there before he went there.
I suggested, a while ago, that it might have been an air raid shelter.
So supposedly the small shed would hide the ladder that dropped down into the air-raid shelter.  Would that work in an air raid.  The shed could get knocked over and you wouldn't be able to access the entrance any longer. 
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: jassi on December 21, 2020, 08:03:36 PM
So supposedly the small shed would hide the ladder that dropped down into the air-raid shelter.  Would that work in an air raid.  The shed could get knocked over and you wouldn't be able to access the entrance any longer.

There might not have been a shed there during the war, just an underground bunker, or maybe there was once a house on top.
Who knows. Is it important ?
I can't see that Brueckner would have dug it out in his spare time.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 21, 2020, 08:15:16 PM
There might not have been a shed there during the war, just an underground bunker, or maybe there was once a house on top.
Who knows. Is it important ?
I can't see that Brueckner would have dug it out in his spare time.
I think it would show some sort of "intentionality".
If it was built in the 2nd WW then it wasn't CB who built it.  Things in the bunker suggest to me it had recently used.  So where was the access way?  Certainly, if a child was dropped into it as I imagine it, there would be no escape once the ladder was withdrawn.  Could it only be withdrawn by someone from above?   Doesn't sound like an effective shelter to me. 


What game are you playing... I'm not going to join in with your silly games so it's best if you go and play with yourself
It is against the rules to comment on bad spelling.  It was accidental and I thought quite funny so I left it.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: jassi on December 21, 2020, 08:20:22 PM
I think it would show some sort of "intentionality".
If it was built in the 2nd WW then it wasn't CB who built it.  Things in the bunker suggest to me it had recently used.  So where was the access way?  Certainly, if a child was dropped into it as I imagine it, there would be no escape once the ladder was withdrawn.  Could it only be withdrawn by someone from above?   Doesn't sound like an effective shelter to me. 

It is against the rules to comment on bad spelling.  It was accidental and I thought quite funny so I left it.

Did it say access by ladder ?
I reckon a ladder could be taken down into the bunker as well as lifted out.
An  bunker 15 ft underground sounds vastly superior to some of the  British air raid shelters
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 21, 2020, 08:34:32 PM
Lighten up.
From what Misty says, it might never have existed.
Bit coincidental if it never existed, but do carry on taking the piss out of a violent rape, it’s the kind of observation we have come to expect from you.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: jassi on December 21, 2020, 08:35:50 PM
Bit coincidental if it never existed, but do carry on taking the piss out of a violent rape, it’s the kind of observation we have come to expect from you.

Who is this 'we', paleface ?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 21, 2020, 08:37:56 PM
Did it say access by ladder ?
I reckon a ladder could be taken down into the bunker as well as lifted out.
An  bunker 15 ft underground sounds vastly superior to some of the  British air raid shelters
It hasn't really said.  When I saw the digger there it makes me think the soil above it was well compacted.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 21, 2020, 10:54:27 PM
She says something about Jane Tanner seeing a man carrying a blond-haired child.  I thought it was the feet end of the child she saw. I can't remember her saying anything about a blond child.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE-TANNER.htm
"Meanwhile a man appeared ( * ) carrying a child (**), with a hurried walk, it being this detail together with the fact that the child dressed in pyjamas, without being wrapped up in a blanket, that caught her attention. She only managed to see him from the side, with the child in his arms. She noticed the individual's presence exactly when she had just passed by Gerry and Jez who were talking, having seen this person step off the pavement that borders on the apartment block where they were staying and rapidly cross the road."

Does this change over the next week?

"Confronted with the information that the [tracker] dog teams had followed/followed the scent trails in which, purportedly, MBM had not passed the intersection where she indicated a man carried a child, she affirmed, immediately, that she was not lying, maintaining the honesty of her initial version. That, indeed, there had passed in front of her a man carrying, in his arms, a barefoot child. At the time she had not paid him much attention because it is common, at the OC, for children to pass in the arms of their parents between the creche and their respective homes, when they have collected them from the baby-sitting service. Only it was strange that the child had no cover (blanket) and the way the man walked, rapidly, and how he was dressed, the trousers were slightly wide their entire length, being straight. They (trousers) were as to colour, identical to "corticine" (a type of floor covering), "chino" [Chinese] style. As for the coat it was dark coloured, she was not able to specify what, seeming to be the same material as the trousers, it being a type of "anorak". As for the footwear she relates that she cannot confirm with certainty but [they were] shoes with a Slight "heel".


About the description of the child, she confirmed that it was being carried in his arms, with the legs in her direction and barefoot. She thought that it was a female child because the pyjamas were a light colour (seemingly pink to her). She never saw the hair of the child. She never saw it move nor make any sound, thinking that it was asleep."

So that part of the video is wrong IMO.

Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: G-Unit on December 21, 2020, 11:34:35 PM
snip/

"About the description of the child, she confirmed that it was being carried in his arms, with the legs in her direction and barefoot. She thought that it was a female child because the pyjamas were a light colour (seemingly pink to her). She never saw the hair of the child. She never saw it move nor make any sound, thinking that it was asleep."

So that part of the video is wrong IMO."

Many people say what they want to be true rather than what is true. There has been a lot of that in this case. That's why cites and familiarity with the PJ files is so important in my opinion. Sometimes it's due to carelessness, but there seems to be other times when it's deliberate imo. Who started the rumour that Mr Smith had changed his mind about who he saw on 3rd May, for example? It became a much quoted 'truth', but I've never seen a reliable cite for it.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 21, 2020, 11:56:05 PM
snip/

"About the description of the child, she confirmed that it was being carried in his arms, with the legs in her direction and barefoot. She thought that it was a female child because the pyjamas were a light colour (seemingly pink to her). She never saw the hair of the child. She never saw it move nor make any sound, thinking that it was asleep."

So that part of the video is wrong IMO."

Many people say what they want to be true rather than what is true. There has been a lot of that in this case. That's why cites and familiarity with the PJ files is so important in my opinion. Sometimes it's due to carelessness, but there seems to be other times when it's deliberate imo. Who started the rumour that Mr Smith had changed his mind about who he saw on 3rd May, for example? It became a much quoted 'truth', but I've never seen a reliable cite for it.
The media reported it, and you know it.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 12:16:30 AM
snip/

"About the description of the child, she confirmed that it was being carried in his arms, with the legs in her direction and barefoot. She thought that it was a female child because the pyjamas were a light colour (seemingly pink to her). She never saw the hair of the child. She never saw it move nor make any sound, thinking that it was asleep."

So that part of the video is wrong IMO."

Many people say what they want to be true rather than what is true. There has been a lot of that in this case. That's why cites and familiarity with the PJ files is so important in my opinion. Sometimes it's due to carelessness, but there seems to be other times when it's deliberate imo. Who started the rumour that Mr Smith had changed his mind about who he saw on 3rd May, for example? It became a much quoted 'truth', but I've never seen a reliable cite for it.

IMO it was totally irresponsible to report that Martin Smith had identified Gerry McCann in any way.  It was not a lineup, like a formal identification parade.
A person can be totally wrong even if he was 60 -80% certain.  If he had to pick up the person from a line up of 6 or so similar-looking men carrying their child in their arms then it might have been more scientific.

Was "the rumour that Mr Smith had changed his mind about who he saw on 3rd May," mentioned in the video?  If not, let's move on to something mentioned in which the video was wrong.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 12:33:21 AM
G-unit you wrote, "Many people say what they want to be true rather than what is true. There has been a lot of that in this case. That's why cites and familiarity with the PJ files is so important in my opinion".

To me the PJ files are just as problematic, as I have noted there were vast numbers of people interviewed who had no possibility of being a witness.  I've asked myself what was the purpose?  Was it just to show that it wasn't a crime committed by an Ocean Club or Mark Warner employee?  There are also employees or associates that are not interviewed who would have a direct possibility of knowing something.  To me, the PJ files are a reflection of the corruption that is possibly behind the McCann case.   Goncalo Amaral blamed the UK government for interference, but that may just be an excuse, but a true indication of some other political pressure or commercial pressure coming on this case.

Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 12:44:00 AM
G-unit you ought to listen and watch this documentary "When our minds play tricks on us | DW Documentary" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmlXY-hzgm0   What is discussed in there should make you change your mind about your view on Martin Smith's identification, whether he changed his mind or not makes no differences it was totally unreliable in the first place.
That whole section of Martin Smith's statement should not have been allowed to be included in the PJ file. 
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 22, 2020, 12:56:42 AM
G-unit you ought to listen and watch this documentary "When our minds play tricks on us | DW Documentary" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmlXY-hzgm0   What is discussed in there should make you change your mind about your view on Martin Smith's identification, whether he changed his mind or not makes no differences it was totally unreliable in the first place.
That whole section of Martin Smith's statement should not have been allowed to be included in the PJ file.

OG certainly didn’t think there was anything wrong with Martin Smith’s recall as at one point they thought his photo fit could possibly be the abductor.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 01:04:34 AM
OG certainly didn’t think there was anything wrong with Martin Smith’s recall as at one point they thought his photo fit could possibly be the abductor.
Tell me, do you honestly believe what you've just written?   There were two photofits and they weren't really that similar.  I think they were asking us to stop thinking Tannerman was the most important person in this case.
Refocus the time frame from 9:15 to closer to 10:00 PM.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 05:33:58 AM
https://youtu.be/eBWsaJwBbxw?t=1020 She starts talking about other sightings. 

When saw talks about a tourist seeing an old van the image goes to a van like the one previously owned by Christian B (admittedly with a big question mark over it).  Was the description as accurate as of that?   Does anyone know how to locate the statements from these other tourists described in this section of the video?


Remembered Tamsin   ---- http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/T_M_S_AGE_12.htm  Title of document "T.M.S. AGED12"  (They certainly don't make it easy!)
Nothing about an old van in that statement.
I don't think her e-fit looks that alike CB.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 06:16:30 AM
She says "Eddie got a hit off the car's trunk and the door" 
I believe Eddie only alerted to the door, and it was Keela that alerted in the trunk.
https://youtu.be/eBWsaJwBbxw?t=1130
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 06:20:45 AM
She says the "FSS identified 17 out of the 19 markers for Madeleine", whereas from memory it was only 15 out of the 19 alleles.  4 were missing. 
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 06:49:20 AM
https://youtu.be/eBWsaJwBbxw?t=1020 She starts talking about other sightings. 

When saw talks about a tourist seeing an old van the image goes to a van like the one previously owned by Christian B (admittedly with a big question mark over it).  Was the description as accurate as of that?   Does anyone know how to locate the statements from these other tourists described in this section of the video?


Remembered Tamsin   ---- http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/T_M_S_AGE_12.htm  Title of document "T.M.S. AGED12"  (They certainly don't make it easy!)
Nothing about an old van in that statement.
I don't think her e-fit looks that alike CB.
I wasn't able to find a post discussing old vans in the PJ files.  Any offers of help?

(Other than the tread called "White Van"  http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11844.msg632913#msg632913 )
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Myster on December 22, 2020, 07:35:12 AM
https://youtu.be/eBWsaJwBbxw?t=1020 (https://youtu.be/eBWsaJwBbxw?t=1020) She starts talking about other sightings. 

When saw talks about a tourist seeing an old van the image goes to a van like the one previously owned by Christian B (admittedly with a big question mark over it).  Was the description as accurate as of that?   Does anyone know how to locate the statements from these other tourists described in this section of the video?


Remembered Tamsin   ---- http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/T_M_S_AGE_12.htm (http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/T_M_S_AGE_12.htm)  Title of document "T.M.S. AGED12"  (They certainly don't make it easy!)
Nothing about an old van in that statement.
I don't think her e-fit looks that alike CB.
Or does it?...
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 08:19:40 AM
The ratios seem wrong.  CB has taller aspect whereas Tamsinman has a wider forehead.   How do people remember faces?   I think I try to give them a shape, like round or narrow.   Personally I know I'm quite terrible at remembering people and as to what they were wearing.

"How Exactly Do Our Brains Recognize Faces?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1lnrGIbweY

Not really what I wanted but a start.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 08:28:11 AM
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11812.msg626632#msg626632  mentions "Diana M"
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: G-Unit on December 22, 2020, 09:34:23 AM
https://youtu.be/eBWsaJwBbxw?t=1020 She starts talking about other sightings. 

When saw talks about a tourist seeing an old van the image goes to a van like the one previously owned by Christian B (admittedly with a big question mark over it).  Was the description as accurate as of that?   Does anyone know how to locate the statements from these other tourists described in this section of the video?


Remembered Tamsin   ---- http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/T_M_S_AGE_12.htm  Title of document "T.M.S. AGED12"  (They certainly don't make it easy!)
Nothing about an old van in that statement.
I don't think her e-fit looks that alike CB.

The person who saw the van was Derek Flack, who described it as similar to an Opel Corsavan, which is nothing like a VW Campervan.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DEREK_FLACK.htm
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 09:43:58 AM
What is the point in posting a video that brings nothing new and seems to contain countless errors.. Isnt it more than a little pointless
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: G-Unit on December 22, 2020, 10:10:50 AM
What is the point in posting a video that brings nothing new and seems to contain countless errors.. Isnt it more than a little pointless

It's a good example of the misinformation and confusion surrounding this case. Books, videos and media stories have all contained mistakes which mislead imo.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 10:13:15 AM
It's a good example of the misinformation and confusion surrounding this case. Books, videos and media stories have all contained mistakes which mislead imo.

I think we would sll agree with that
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 22, 2020, 10:17:04 AM
It's a good example of the misinformation and confusion surrounding this case. Books, videos and media stories have all contained mistakes which mislead imo.

The trouble only rests with deciding which ones.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 10:22:03 AM
The trouble only rests with deciding which ones.

To be fair I think there are mistakes in most of them but we don't need them  We have a professional investigation that says the parents  are innocent and the evidence points to CB
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 22, 2020, 10:28:12 AM
Tell me, do you honestly believe what you've just written?   There were two photofits and they weren't really that similar.  I think they were asking us to stop thinking Tannerman was the most important person in this case.
Refocus the time frame from 9:15 to closer to 10:00 PM.

It’s not whether I believe it that’s important but that OG did.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: jassi on December 22, 2020, 10:28:48 AM
It's a good example of the misinformation and confusion surrounding this case. Books, videos and media stories have all contained mistakes which mislead imo.

I think much of it is deliberate, depending upon the bias of individual producers and authors.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: G-Unit on December 22, 2020, 10:31:52 AM
To be fair I think there are mistakes in most of them but we dint need them  We have a professional investigation that says the parents  are innocent and the evidence points to CB

As you have pointed out previously, it's perfectly reasonable to question the opinions of professionals. 
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 22, 2020, 10:33:11 AM
I think much of it is deliberate, depending upon the bias of individual producers and authors.

And how much they think they can get away with before the parents send in the lawyers.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 10:33:48 AM
As you have pointed out previously, it's perfectly reasonable to question the opinions of professionals.

It is but you don't agree as I recall.  It really does depend in the evidence.. That's what counts
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 10:35:22 AM
And how much they think they can get away with before the parents send in the lawyers.

It's quite noticeable that there is no threat of legal  action from CBs lawyers
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 22, 2020, 10:37:17 AM
It's quite noticeable that there is no threat of legal  action from CBs lawyers

I don't think they would dare.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 10:39:48 AM
I don't think they would dare.

Probaly just don't have a case.  This is one of the reasons that led me to believe HCW.  He really  is putting his career on the line
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 22, 2020, 11:30:47 AM
It's quite noticeable that there is no threat of legal  action from CBs lawyers

How can you possibly know that?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: G-Unit on December 22, 2020, 11:48:04 AM
It is but you don't agree as I recall.  It really does depend in the evidence.. That's what counts

It depends on what is being questioned. Opinions are formed about evidence, and it's those opinions which should be questioned imo. The Germans seem to have decided to believe the evidence of some very dodgy witnesses.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 11:52:24 AM
It depends on what is being questioned. Opinions are formed about evidence, and it's those opinions which should be questioned imo. The Germans seem to have decided to believe the evidence of some very dodgy witnesses.

If they have concrete evidence to support it then its the evidence thats convincing not the testimony. The evidence supports the testimony....you are seeing this testimony in isolation...the Germans are taking all the evidence together
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 22, 2020, 12:31:07 PM
It depends on what is being questioned. Opinions are formed about evidence, and it's those opinions which should be questioned imo. The Germans seem to have decided to believe the evidence of some very dodgy witnesses.
Based on blind faith, in your opinion, or perhaps there is something else?  Do you agree that you don't know the full picture and are simply speculating?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: G-Unit on December 22, 2020, 12:54:49 PM
Based on blind faith, in your opinion, or perhaps there is something else?  Do you agree that you don't know the full picture and are simply speculating?

As are we all. Some are placing their faith in Wolters having something more, but he admits that whatever it is it doesn't justify an arrest.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 01:08:23 PM
As are we all. Some are placing their faith in Wolters having something more, but he admits that whatever it is it doesn't justify an arrest.

I think you are quite wrong...what he has may well be enough for arrest...hes just seeing if he can get more. There is absolutely no point in arresting prematurely and several reaons why he shouldnt
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 22, 2020, 01:19:20 PM
As are we all. Some are placing their faith in Wolters having something more, but he admits that whatever it is it doesn't justify an arrest.
Speculating is pointless.  Give the German investigation the benefit of the doubt and wait and see what pans out. instead of making (largely critical) pronouncements about what you think is going on behind the scenes. IMO.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: G-Unit on December 22, 2020, 01:23:52 PM
Speculating is pointless.  Give the German investigation the benefit of the doubt and wait and see what pans out. instead of making (largely critical) pronouncements about what you think is going on behind the scenes. IMO.

It is, but there's plenty of it going on, mostly by those who are keen to believe that the latest suspect is the perpetrator imo.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 01:26:06 PM
It is, but there's plenty of it going on, mostly by those who are keen to believe that the latest suspect is the perpetrator imo.

speculation based on evidence
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 22, 2020, 01:26:52 PM
It is, but there's plenty of it going on, mostly by those who are keen to believe that the latest suspect is the perpetrator imo.
I’m not, if that comment was aimed at me?  I take it all at face value and don’t suppose to know what is going on behind the scenes of this investigation.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: G-Unit on December 22, 2020, 02:24:49 PM
speculation based on evidence

What evidence?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 02:26:03 PM
What evidence?

Evidence...that which supports  a proposition...there is quite  a lot that impliactes him
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: G-Unit on December 22, 2020, 03:14:43 PM
Evidence...that which supports  a proposition...there is quite  a lot that impliactes him

Really? Perhaps you could identify this evidence that implicates him?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 03:17:18 PM
Really? Perhaps you could identify this evidence that implicates him?

You are aware of it and are just playing a silly game. I'm saying evidence...not proof
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: G-Unit on December 22, 2020, 04:00:18 PM
You are aware of it and are just playing a silly game. I'm saying evidence...not proof

I would like to know which evidence you are referring to nevertheless.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 04:01:21 PM
I would like to know which evidence you are referring to nevertheless.

all the evidence in the public domain which you are fully aware of...testimonies from friends for instance.

you may think its unreliable but that isn't the point. its evidence and it would be up to a court to decide if it wa srelaible  not an armchair detective
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 04:55:31 PM
all the evidence in the public domain which you are fully aware of...testimonies from friends for instance.

you may think its unreliable but that isn't the point. its evidence and it would be up to a court to decide if it wa srelaible  not an armchair detective
All your so-called evidence could all just be coincidental. 
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: jassi on December 22, 2020, 05:03:40 PM
All your so-called evidence could all just be coincidental.

Or perhaps constructed by media to paint a worse picture than is the truth.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 22, 2020, 05:19:11 PM
Or perhaps constructed by media to paint a worse picture than is the truth.
Or perhaps it’s all part of a cunning plot stitiched together by the police authorities of three countries to lull the McCanns into a false sense of security before they finally pounce on them and cart them off to jail.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: jassi on December 22, 2020, 05:27:13 PM
Or perhaps it’s all part of a cunning plot stitiched together by the police authorities of three countries to lull the McCanns into a false sense of security before they finally pounce on them and cart them off to jail.

If you wish to interpret it in that way, who am I to disagree ? 8)--))
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 05:28:36 PM
All your so-called evidence could all just be coincidental.

It's still evidence...you are now speculating..it's up to the court to decide
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 05:30:19 PM
All your so-called evidence could all just be coincidental.

It isn't so called evidence...it's evidence
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 22, 2020, 05:39:05 PM
If they have concrete evidence to support it then its the evidence thats convincing not the testimony. The evidence supports the testimony....you are seeing this testimony in isolation...the Germans are taking all the evidence together

As the police in the Michael Stone did?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 05:51:04 PM
As the police in the Michael Stone did?

Did stone give evidence
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 22, 2020, 06:02:05 PM
Did stone give evidence

Not sure why that’s important.

The police in the Stone case were sure they had the evidence to prove Stone committed murder. The CPS allowed charges to be lodged. It is obvious to anyone with a modicum of sense that he was not guilty.

Like Brueckner Stone, with his past convictions, was easy to paint as a perpetrator. Lessons should be learned.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 06:02:42 PM
It isn't so called evidence...it's evidence
Yes it is, until it is tested it maybe so-called evidence.
I accept there are facts like his current convictions.
that he got a phone call on the night Madeleine went missing.
That he changed his car's ownership the following day. 
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: G-Unit on December 22, 2020, 06:07:58 PM
all the evidence in the public domain which you are fully aware of...testimonies from friends for instance.

you may think its unreliable but that isn't the point. its evidence and it would be up to a court to decide if it wa srelaible  not an armchair detective

Thank you. Is the testimony from friends all of it or is there more?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 06:08:55 PM
Thank you. Is the testimony from friends all of it or is there more?

Lots more as you are fully aware
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 06:10:50 PM
Thank you. Is the testimony from friends all of it or is there more?
Don't rush him.   He has to finish his cup of tea so he can read the tea leaves.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: barrier on December 22, 2020, 06:12:02 PM
Yes it is, until it is tested it maybe so-called evidence.
I accept there are facts like his current convictions.
that he got a phone call on the night Madeleine went missing.
That he changed his car's ownership the following day.

Thats not been confirmed as it ?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 06:14:59 PM
Yes it is, until it is tested it maybe so-called evidence.
I accept there are facts like his current convictions.
that he got a phone call on the night Madeleine went missing.
That he changed his car's ownership the following day.

It's evidence...not so called evidence. Every police statement is evidence
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 06:17:09 PM
That's not been confirmed has it?
Well, it might fall into the undisputed facts category. 
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 22, 2020, 06:28:30 PM
Don't rush him.   He has to finish his cup of tea so he can read the tea leaves.

Now that made me laugh.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 06:31:35 PM
Now that made me laugh.

You are probably on a similar wavelength to rob
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: G-Unit on December 22, 2020, 06:37:49 PM
Lots more as you are fully aware

Yes, but which evidence you have based your opinions on? If it's convinced you why don't you want to share it?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 22, 2020, 06:38:18 PM
Not sure why that’s important.

The police in the Stone case were sure they had the evidence to prove Stone committed murder. The CPS allowed charges to be lodged. It is obvious to anyone with a modicum of sense that he was not guilty.

Like Brueckner Stone, with his past convictions, was easy to paint as a perpetrator. Lessons should be learned.
If it’s so obvious then why is he still in prison and why aren’t you devoting all your spare time trying to get his conviction overturned rather than spending it casting doubt on the McCanns?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 06:41:42 PM
You are probably on a similar wavelength to rob
Wrong thread.  You should be posting on the psychic thread when talking of "wavelength".
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 22, 2020, 06:44:32 PM
Wrong thread.  You should be posting on the psychic thread when talking of "wavelength".

And so should you when talking about Reading Tea Leaves.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 06:44:48 PM
Not sure why that’s important.

The police in the Stone case were sure they had the evidence to prove Stone committed murder. The CPS allowed charges to be lodged. It is obvious to anyone with a modicum of sense that he was not guilty.

Like Brueckner Stone, with his past convictions, was easy to paint as a perpetrator. Lessons should be learned.

Perhaps you should find out more details about the case...if he gave evidence for instance. How much more dont you know. According to the BBC report the Judges gave an explanation after the second trial as to why they found him guilty. Have you read it....I doubt it
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 06:46:55 PM
Wrong thread.  You should be posting on the psychic thread when talking of "wavelength".

No its the correct english word....nothing to do with psychics. The only reason I would post on that thread is to ridicule those who beleive...another hate post coming no doubt
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 06:50:53 PM
And so should you when talking about Reading Tea Leaves.
Have tea leaves been mentioned before?  I thought they had. 
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 06:55:36 PM
No its the correct english word....nothing to do with psychics. The only reason I would post on that thread is to ridicule those who beleive...another hate post coming no doubt
In the background was the 60 minutes documentary on CB and Fredrick F, CB's lawyer, if you are forgetful, said "Holy water can ordered as a long drink in Hell".  What a strange thing to say.  It might make the stay a bit more bearable though.
https://youtu.be/Pvqu9Wd388c?t=2151
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 06:56:18 PM
Have tea leaves been mentioned before?  I thought they had.

I think Eleanor may have thought I found your post goading...which I did....and was conerned  another pointless spat might start
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 06:58:37 PM
In the background was the 60 minutes documentary on CB and Fredrick F, CB's lawyer, if you are forgetful, said "Holy water can ordered as a long drink in Hell".  What a strange thing to say.  It might make the stay a bit more bearable though.
https://youtu.be/Pvqu9Wd388c?t=2151

He didnt say that...he said before his client would speak you would be able to order holy water as  along drink in hell....it may be  German expression...
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 22, 2020, 07:01:07 PM
Perhaps you should find out more details about the case...if he gave evidence for instance. How much more dont you know. According to the BBC report the Judges gave an explanation after the second trial as to why they found him guilty. Have you read it....I doubt it

I’m sorry but did I say whether Stone gave evidence or not or did I say that it wasn’t important?

There was no forensic link between the murder and Stone.
There was no eye witness testimony.
The witness testimony there was was easily discredited.

I’m sure another judge would have said similar when the Birmingham Six unsuccessfully appealed against their conviction in 1987. Of course we all know how that turned out"
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 22, 2020, 07:02:19 PM
I think Eleanor may have thought I found your post goading...which I did....and was conerned  another pointless spat might start

Eleanor obviously knows you too well and how easy you are to rile.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 07:05:20 PM
I’m sorry but did I say whether Stone gave evidence or not or did I say that it wasn’t important?

There was no forensic link between the murder and Stone.
There was no eye witness testimony.
The witness testimony there was was easily discredited.

I’m sure another judge would have said similar when the Birmingham Six unsuccessfully appealed against their conviction in 1987. Of course we all know how that turned out"

You didnt answer the question which leads me to beleive you dont know. You list the evidence which you claim shows him innocent but not the evidence the court used to find him guilty.


The lack of alibi has only just been raised today.....I wonder what else there is.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 07:06:17 PM
I think Eleanor may have thought I found your post goading...which I did....and was concerned  another pointless spat might start
You know it is pointless for you to start arguing with me!  You are incapable of going the distance.


He didnt say that...he said before his client would speak you would be able to order holy water as  along drink in hell....it may be  German expression...
I had one part in the wrong order.  "you would be able to order holy water as a long drink in hell" or  "Holy water can ordered as a long drink in Hell"  Significantly different??
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 07:08:04 PM
Eleanor obviously knows you too well and how easy you are to rile.

Another poor judgement call. Eleanor knows me far better than you think.....I certainly wasnt riled during the recent nastiness towards me.....Read the words below
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 07:09:15 PM
You know it is pointless for you to start arguing with me!  You are incapable of going the distance.

I had one part in the wrong order.  "you would be able to order holy water as a long drink in hell" or  "Holy water can ordered as a long drink in Hell"  Significantly different??

Your babyish antics don't interest me rob...give it a rest
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 07:10:44 PM
Another poor judgement call. Eleanor knows me far better than you think.....I certainly wasnt riled during the recent nastiness towards me.....Read the words below
That is the funniest thing you've ever said.  In general, you have a very limited sense of humour.  (if any at all IMO).

It is like 

"Below is List of things that Davel has got right:




"
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 07:12:22 PM
That is the funniest thing you've ever said. 
It is like 

Below is List of things that Davel has got right:

Your first post towards me was goading...Im not going to get involved in a babyish argument with you. Ive already spoken to John about your behaviour
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 07:14:26 PM
Your first post towards me was goading...Im not going to get involved in a babyish argument with you. Ive already spoken to John about your behaviour
Well, I hope he has a better sense of humour than you do.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 22, 2020, 07:15:17 PM
I’m sorry but did I say whether Stone gave evidence or not or did I say that it wasn’t important?

There was no forensic link between the murder and Stone.
There was no eye witness testimony.
The witness testimony there was was easily discredited.

I’m sure another judge would have said similar when the Birmingham Six unsuccessfully appealed against their conviction in 1987. Of course we all know how that turned out"
There was no forensic evidence that Joana Cipriano was murdered at home
There was no eye witness testimony
At least one of the suspects was tortured by the police but this is not a problem for you in the slightest.  Why, I wonder....
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 22, 2020, 07:16:08 PM
You didnt answer the question which leads me to beleive you dont know. You list the evidence which you claim shows him innocent but not the evidence the court used to find him guilty.


The lack of alibi has only just been raised today.....I wonder what else there is.

Obviously you put two and two together and made five but don’t worry we’ll make mistakes.

The main thrust of the evidence was the now discredited witness testimony.

BTW was the BBC programme you mentioned this one ?

‘ In May and June 2017, the case was scrutinised in The Chillenden Murders, a two-part BBC Two programme in which a team of independent experts re-examined the evidence.[6] The Telegraph summarised the television programme by stating, "According to the BBC, new details, uncovered during the making of the documentary, raise the possibility that the wrong man may have been convicted."[19] Two of the legal experts who took part in the programme – prominent defence barrister Stephen Kamlisch and legal expert Sheryl Nwosu – believe there are significant doubts regarding the conviction and are now working on Stone's behalf to have the case re-examined with the aim of launching a third appeal against the conviction.’
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 22, 2020, 07:20:34 PM
I think Eleanor may have thought I found your post goading...which I did....and was conerned  another pointless spat might start

I was.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 07:20:43 PM
Obviously you put two and two together and made five but don’t worry we’ll make mistakes.

The main thrust of the evidence was the now discredited witness testimony.

BTW was the BBC programme you mentioned this one ?

‘ In May and June 2017, the case was scrutinised in The Chillenden Murders, a two-part BBC Two programme in which a team of independent experts re-examined the evidence.[6] The Telegraph summarised the television programme by stating, "According to the BBC, new details, uncovered during the making of the documentary, raise the possibility that the wrong man may have been convicted."[19] Two of the legal experts who took part in the programme – prominent defence barrister Stephen Kamlisch and legal expert Sheryl Nwosu – believe there are significant doubts regarding the conviction and are now working on Stone's behalf to have the case re-examined with the aim of launching a third appeal against the conviction.’

More poor judgement....Ive no doubt there MAY be  a miscarriage of justice... I would just like to see ALL the evidence....did  stone give any...you dont know...didnt take me long to work that out. The fact is Stone may well be guilty. I just dont have enough information ...and it seems you dont either...to give  a valid opinion
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 22, 2020, 07:22:53 PM
Eleanor obviously knows you too well and how easy you are to rile.

This is not true?  Please don't profess to know how I feel.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 07:24:23 PM
I was.
I was trying to make Davel laugh.    Does he do such a thing?

This is not true?  Please don't profess to know how I feel.
Now that does sound like a spat coming on!
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 07:26:23 PM
More poor judgement....Ive no doubt there MAY be  a miscarriage of justice... I would just like to see ALL the evidence....did  stone give any...you dont know...didnt take me long to work that out. The fact is Stone may well be guilty. I just dont have enough information ...and it seems you dont either...to give  a valid opinion
Why are you guys discussing the Stone case here on this most valued thread?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 07:27:06 PM
I was trying to make Davel laugh.    Does he do such a thing?
Now that does sound like a spat coming on!

I dont think you could make me laugh...we are on different wavelengths.

I do laugh...i've got quite a wicked sense of humour.

Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 07:29:37 PM
Why are you guys discussing the Stone case here on this most valued thread?

Ask the person who introduced stone to this  thread. One reason is that Stone was not able to give an alibi...and it seems taht was taken as  acontributing fact to his conviction...Then th efact Stone wa sconvicted on evidence supplied by a criminal informer.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 22, 2020, 07:30:44 PM
I was.

Do you believe Davel is really that immature?
 

Rob is not the problem. I remember him having spats like that with Stephen. I’m afraid he causes trouble then hides behind your or Brietta’s skirts.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 22, 2020, 07:31:20 PM
I dont think you could make me laugh...we are on different wavelengths.

I do laugh...i've got quite a wicked sense of humour.

Way above the likes of most.  You and me both.  Some of the shite on here is hilarious, but nearly always unintended.  That's the funny bit.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 07:31:51 PM
I dont think you could make me laugh...we are on different wavelengths.

I do laugh...i've got quite a wicked sense of humour.
Make a joke then, show me.

I was thinking of the first line, Three Englishmen walk into a bar ....

Or maybe Three Englishmen, all infected with coronavirus, walk into a bar ....

Finish the joke in the current environment?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 07:31:58 PM
Do you believe Davel is really that immature?
 

Rob is not the problem. I remember him having spats like that with Stephen. I’m afraid he causes trouble then hides behind your or Brietta’s skirts.

water of  a ducks back..lol
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 07:33:54 PM
Way above the likes of most.  You and me both.  Some of the shite on here is hilarious, but nearly always unintended.  That's the funny bit.

I actually "inadvertantly " made one yesterday in apost to Rob...but he completely missed it...if he had seen it he would have gone ballistic...way over his head
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 07:34:48 PM
water of  a ducks back..lol
Are you playing with your rubber duckie?

I actually "inadvertantly " made one yesterday in apost to Rob...but he completely missed it...if he had seen it he would have gone ballistic...way over his head
Cite demanded.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 22, 2020, 07:36:04 PM
Do you believe Davel is really that immature?
 

Rob is not the problem. I remember him having spats like that with Stephen. I’m afraid he causes trouble then hides behind your or Brietta’s skirts.

No, I don't.  Davel doesn't hide anywhere.

Strange how we have just had another relatively peaceful afternoon, don't you think.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 07:39:10 PM
Make a joke then, show me.

I was thinking of the first line, Three Englishmen walk into a bar ....

Or maybe Three Englishmen, all infected with coronavirus, walk into a bar ....

Finish the joke in the current environment?

The first thing you need to learn about humour is that it is  spontaneous... your attempt at a doesnt have any
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 07:39:30 PM
No, I don't.  Davel doesn't hide anywhere.

Strange how we have just had another relatively peaceful afternoon, don't you think.
Girls just wanna have fun. https://youtu.be/PIb6AZdTr-A
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 07:40:56 PM
The first thing you need to learn about humour is that it is  spontaneous... your attempt at a doesnt have any
Three Englishmen, all infected with coronavirus, walk into a bar ...
Didn't make any difference the bars were already empty!
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 07:41:33 PM
Three Englishmen, all infected with coronavirus, walk into a bar ...
Didn't make any difference the bars were already empty!

not funny at all
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 07:43:51 PM
not funny at all
You got no sense of humour.  Right, tell us a joke.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 07:46:47 PM
I'm more of  a spontaneous situation comic...the joke comes a part of th econversation...for instance...I love nice clothes and will only wear designer labels.....  get all my clothes fron TK Max


you probably dont get that one Rob
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 07:49:18 PM
really i'm quite careful with money....used to do all my shopping at the pound shop then switched to the 99p shop.......found it was slightly better value
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 07:50:39 PM
The first thing you need to learn about humour is that it is  spontaneous... your attempt at a doesnt have any
It isn't easy to make up a joke.
I'm more of  a spontaneous situation comic...the joke comes a part of th econversation...for instance...I love nice clothes and will only wear designer labels.....  get all my clothes fron TK Max


you probably dont get that one Rob
It is a regional joke,  We don't have TK Max shops in NZ but we certainly have plenty of other Charity shops for you to choose from.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 07:50:56 PM
Im quite highbrow when it comes to culture... I absolutely adore opera...seen all the great ones live...my favourite is The Phantom
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 07:53:38 PM
It isn't easy to make up a joke.It is a regional joke,  We don't have TK Max shops in NZ but we certainly have plenty of other Charity shops for you to choose from.

TK Max is a UK shop that sells off designer labels cheaply
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 07:54:41 PM
really i'm quite careful with money....used to do all my shopping at the pound shop then switched to the 99p shop.......found it was slightly better value
Have you forgotten I'm no good at maths?

TK Max is a UK shop that sells off designer labels cheaply
So you didn't get my joke?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 07:55:38 PM
Have you forgotten I'm no good at maths?
So you didn't get my joke?

I understood your joke but it wasnt funny
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 07:57:12 PM
TK Max is a UK shop that sells off designer labels cheaply
Just the labels, nothing else?


I understood your joke but it wasnt funny
That is your problem, not mine.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 07:58:35 PM
Just the labels, nothing else?

That is your problem, not mine.

sorry...are you stilling telling jokes or are you seious now...difficult to tell
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 08:00:00 PM
I actually "inadvertantly " made one yesterday in apost to Rob...but he completely missed it...if he had seen it he would have gone ballistic...way over his head
Have you provided my Cite yet?  You seem to be slow.

sorry...are you stilling telling jokes or are you seious now...difficult to tell
That's more like it.  Now you are getting the groove.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 08:03:44 PM
TK Max is a UK shop that sells off designer labels cheaply
There was a firm in NZ that attached "Made in NZ" labels to their garments, and they got into trouble.   The labels were made in NZ but the garments were made in Bangladesh.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 08:06:31 PM
I actually "inadvertantly " made one yesterday in apost to Rob...but he completely missed it...if he had seen it he would have gone ballistic...way over his head
I want to see this post so I can report you to Eleanor.  Or are you going to ask for a lawyer to be present?
I've heard Carter Ruck works for nothing at times.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 08:08:07 PM
I want to see this post so I can report you to Eleanor.  Or are you going to ask for a lawyer to be present?

Cant seem to find it now...never mind...im not impressed with lawyers....I would represent myself
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 08:11:05 PM
Cant seem to find it now...never mind...im not impressed with lawyers....I would represent myself
Yes OK, I've seen how you work, you'd put the judge and jury to sleep by saying the same thing over a thousand times.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 08:13:40 PM
I've got to go.   Have a good night.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 08:14:37 PM
Yes OK, I've seen how you work, you'd put the judge and jury to sleep by saying the same thing over a thousand times.

Im hopefully going to do it in real life...act as prosecutor in a private criminal prosecution
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 22, 2020, 08:15:02 PM
No, I don't.  Davel doesn't hide anywhere.

Strange how we have just had another relatively peaceful afternoon, don't you think.

I have no idea. Is it?

Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: G-Unit on December 22, 2020, 08:20:18 PM
Im quite highbrow when it comes to culture... I absolutely adore opera...seen all the great ones live...my favourite is The Phantom

I thought The Phantom was a 1996 film.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 22, 2020, 08:33:47 PM
I thought The Phantom was a 1996 film.

The Phantom isn’t technically an opera but a musical. Operas very rarely have spoken words between songs but are sung all the way through.

Dialogues des Carmélites is my absolute favourite. It’s just such a beautifully rendered examination of female relationships.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 08:42:17 PM
The Phantom isn’t technically an opera but a musical. Operas very rarely have spoken words between songs but are sung all the way through.

There's no technicality about it..it's not an opera
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 22, 2020, 08:46:55 PM
There's no technicality about it..it's not an opera

We know that.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: G-Unit on December 22, 2020, 09:23:40 PM
There's no technicality about it..it's not an opera

And your idea of humour is to tell people you think it is an opera? Then you laugh if they believe you? Not a shared joke then.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 09:32:19 PM
And your idea of humour is to tell people you think it is an opera? Then you laugh if they believe you? Not a shared joke then.

I think you've missed the point...I'm actually making fun of myself...that's what humour is all about.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 22, 2020, 09:33:09 PM
I think you've missed the point...I'm actually making fun of myself...that's what humour is all about.

Now that’s funny.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 09:35:16 PM
Now that’s funny.
Of course it is..it's Alan Partridge type humour..it's something he might say
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 09:40:34 PM
I think it's my humour that's made me so attractive to the ladies.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 22, 2020, 09:46:02 PM
I think it's my humour that's made me so attractive to the ladies.

You Devil you.  I didn't know that.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: G-Unit on December 22, 2020, 10:18:08 PM
I think you've missed the point...I'm actually making fun of myself...that's what humour is all about.

You're opening yourself to ridicule, but who is supposed to laugh?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: faithlilly on December 22, 2020, 10:21:37 PM
You Devil you.  I didn't know that.

You mean you couldn’t tell?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 10:22:51 PM
You're opening yourself to ridicule, but who is supposed to laugh?
We all do...it's quite pleasant ..you should try it

Although I do sometimes check the others are laughing with me not at me
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 22, 2020, 10:29:40 PM
You mean you couldn’t tell?

Well, he is quite good looking you know.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 10:30:47 PM
Well, he is quite good looking you know.

Please Eleanor...leave the jokes to me
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 22, 2020, 10:35:02 PM
Please Eleanor...leave the jokes to me

You mean your not?
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: G-Unit on December 22, 2020, 10:41:36 PM
We all do...it's quite pleasant ..you should try it

Although I do sometimes check the others are laughing with me not at me

I do hope they don't lie to you.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 10:45:53 PM
I think you've missed the point...I'm actually making fun of myself...that's what humour is all about.
You don't need to try so hard.  It'll come naturally.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 10:47:23 PM
I think it's my humour that's made me so attractive to the ladies.
He longer has to carry a blow-up doll along with him in his designer labeled suitcase.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 22, 2020, 10:49:12 PM
I love how you’re all so fascinated by Davel,  he must feel very flattered by all the attention he’s getting this evening.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 22, 2020, 10:54:27 PM
I love how you’re all so fascinated by Davel,  he must feel very flattered by all the attention he’s getting this evening.
Right, pick on VS time now?  You definitely have a sense of humour.  I find you are often making fun of situations, emphasising the irony.  Quite often I have to read your posts twice just to make sure there isn't libel in them.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 22, 2020, 11:02:31 PM
I do hope they don't lie to you.

I'm happy to laugh at myself..it's an important quality
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 23, 2020, 03:02:10 AM
I'm happy to laugh at myself..it's an important quality
I prefer "Happy Davel".
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: barrier on December 23, 2020, 08:29:24 AM
He longer has to carry a blow-up doll along with him in his designer labeled suitcase.

These kind of doll's.

Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: G-Unit on December 23, 2020, 09:12:07 AM
I love how you’re all so fascinated by Davel,  he must feel very flattered by all the attention he’s getting this evening.

You sound a little jealous.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Eleanor on December 23, 2020, 09:17:23 AM
You sound a little jealous.

What a silly comment.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 23, 2020, 09:22:00 AM
You sound a little jealous.
You sound a little goady.  But yes, I'm very jealous that you're not all ganging up on me and trying to put me down, in fact I'm really upset about it.
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: Mr Gray on December 23, 2020, 09:30:54 AM
You sound a little jealous.

I think VS is being ironic Rob...
Title: Re: What is wrong about this YouTube summary -Meet the Suspects video?
Post by: The General on September 25, 2022, 12:19:20 AM
I think VS is being ironic Rob...
Agreed.