UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Holly Goodhead on February 14, 2021, 10:44:00 PM
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The above witnesses, criminal associates of CB, alerted MET/BKA to CB. How reliable are they?
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The above witnesses, criminal associates of CB, alerted MET/BKA to CB. How reliable are they?
I don’t think anyone on here knows them personally so hard to judge really. Of course you want us to say “not at all” because they are criminals. Then what?
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The above witnesses, criminal associates of CB, alerted MET/BKA to CB. How reliable are they?
How long is a piece of string?
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I don’t think anyone on here knows them personally so hard to judge really. Of course you want us to say “not at all” because they are criminals. Then what?
Not at all. Just wondering what is known about them? I doubt anyone here knows GA or HCW personally but it doesn't seem to stop a fast flow of strong opinions about them.
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Not at all. Just wondering what is known about them? I doubt anyone here knows GA or HCW personally but it doesn't seem to stop a fast flow of strong opinions about them.
It appears that it took Busching 9 years to tell police about his conversation with Brueckner where Brueckner told him that he knew what had happened to Madeleine and, coincidentally straight after was arrested for smuggling migrants in Greece.
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How long is a piece of string?
Twice as long as the middle to one end.
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Not at all. Just wondering what is known about them? I doubt anyone here knows GA or HCW personally but it doesn't seem to stop a fast flow of strong opinions about them.
We can judge GA (and to a lesser extent HCW) by their words and deeds, we know next to nothing about the two witnesses you are appealing for information about.
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We can judge GA (and to a lesser extent HCW) by their words and deeds, we know next to nothing about the two witnesses you are appealing for information about.
Plenty has been written about them and in the public domain.
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Plenty has been written about them and in the public domain.
Then surely based on your extensive knowledge of the witnesses you have been able to form a view as to their reliability or not?
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Then surely based on your extensive knowledge of the witnesses you have been able to form a view as to their reliability or not?
No one mentioned extensive knowledge.
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No one mentioned extensive knowledge.
"Plenty has been written about them and in the public domain". Enough to form a judgement on their reliability or otherwise?
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"Plenty has been written about them and in the public domain". Enough to form a judgement on their reliability or otherwise?
May I suggest you carry out your own research and reach your own conclusions/form a judgement/opinions.
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May I suggest you carry out your own research and reach your own conclusions/form a judgement/opinions.
Oh, is that a polite way to tell me to shut up?
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It appears that it took Busching 9 years to tell police about his conversation with Brueckner where Brueckner told him that he knew what had happened to Madeleine and, coincidentally straight after was arrested for smuggling migrants in Greece.
Where do you get the nine years from? He was sat in a pub with CB and the 10 year anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance came on the tv. CB boasted he knew what happened to her. I believe he told the Police that same year.
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Where do you get the nine years from? He was sat in a pub with CB and the 10 year anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance came on the tv. CB boasted he knew what happened to her. I believe he told the Police that same year.
I know nothing about Helge Bushing And Manfred Seyferth but the catalyst for the present investigation appears to have been publicity generated by her parents who appeared on a tenth anniversary programme regarding Madeleine's disappearance.
It seems to have unsettled Brueckner who drew attention to himself by his reaction which observers thought odd. I think they are to be congratulated for reporting their suspicions to the police.
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Where do you get the nine years from? He was sat in a pub with CB and the 10 year anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance came on the tv. CB boasted he knew what happened to her. I believe he told the Police that same year.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8720485/Witness-helped-launch-Madeleine-McCann-investigation-says-Christian-Brueckner-guilty.html
A witness who went to Madeleine McCann police with the name of suspect Christian Brueckner says the German paedophile is guilty and will 'stay in jail for a long time'.
Helge Busching says he is the man who gave Brueckner's name to British police in 2017, around the 10th anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance.
Busching, 48, claims that Brueckner told him at a Spanish kite festival in 2008 that he was involved in Madeleine's abduction from Praia da Luz a year earlier.
Nine years later, after Busching was arrested for smuggling migrants in Greece, he said he wanted to speak to British police and was questioned by Madeleine detectives in Athens, The Sun reports.
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https://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2017/08/28/madeleine-mccann-greece/
August 28, 2017
Scotland Yard is looking for the secret of British toddler Madeleine McCann in Athens after a witness contacted the team Grange. A Greek newspaper revealed that a German citizen living in Athens contacted “Team Grange” claiming he had information about the case as he was in nearby area when 3-year-old Madeleine disappeared from a hotel in Algarve Portugal in 2007.
According to Sunday newspaper To Vima, the 46-year-old German citizen has already spoken with detectives of Scotland Yard’s “Grange”, a team established in 2011 and assigned with the Madeleine’s case.
The meeting between the British detectives and the German took place in Athens a couple of days ago, the man reportedly gave critical information about the girl’s fate. He has been described as “important and trustworthy witness.”
(some text removed here as not relevant to witness)
cont...
New witness
Citing a memo prepared by the Greek Police on 18 July 2017, To Vima reports that the German national had contacted the Grange team last May the aim to help investigation. The Police memo was based on a briefing the Greek police representative in London had received by the Metropolitan Police of UK.
The 46-year-old had reportedly given to Metropolitan Policed “voluntarily and without any financial or other consideration, information about the case that has been cross-checked” and “he is considered a reliable source.”
Citing several police sources and documents, To Vima writes that the German national who has permanent residence in France was arrested in Igoumenista, North-West Greece, in 2011 for the transport of illegal migrants from Africa. A case was filed but he was set free. He was arrested again in Thessaloniki in 2015, when he returned to Greece for holidays. He was sentenced to seven years and five months imprisonment. He denied charges claiming he had helped the three hiking foreigners. He served his sentence in the prison of Chania, Crete, and from there he contacted the team Grange.
HE was released form prison a few weeks ago and he allegedly used a cell phone registered to a woman, national of a Balkan country, and resident of Agios Panteleimonas district of Athens.
The man had been banned from living the country pending 2nd degree trial scheduled for next month.
To Vima has reportedly contacted the man in the region of Fthiotida, Central Greece. He admitted to have talked with Scotland Yard detectives who had come to Athens in order to talk with him.
“I give important information for the case. On the day Madeleine disappeared I was also in the particular province in Portugal, in a neighboring area,” the German national told the newspaper. He claimed that he had contacted the local police back then but there was no further investigation.
“Now there is keen interest from Scotland Yard for the information I have, however I am not allowed to say anything to anyone else.” the man said adding that his cooperation with British police will continue in the coming days.
To Vima-reporter’s question about Madeleine’s fate and if he thinks she was still alive, the man replied, ten years have passed since then are a lot..”
Full story To Vima online.
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https://www.tanea.gr/2020/06/08/greece/astynomika/apokalyptika-eggrafa-gia-tin-eksafanisi-tis-mantlin-ti-eixe-deiksei-ereyna-stin-ellada-gia-germano-poiniko/amp/
The same information but adds that Busching was due to appear in a court in Corfu on a charge of illegal trafficking but skipped the country.
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https://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2017/08/28/madeleine-mccann-greece/
August 28, 2017
Scotland Yard is looking for the secret of British toddler Madeleine McCann in Athens after a witness contacted the team Grange. A Greek newspaper revealed that a German citizen living in Athens contacted “Team Grange” claiming he had information about the case as he was in nearby area when 3-year-old Madeleine disappeared from a hotel in Algarve Portugal in 2007.
According to Sunday newspaper To Vima, the 46-year-old German citizen has already spoken with detectives of Scotland Yard’s “Grange”, a team established in 2011 and assigned with the Madeleine’s case.
The meeting between the British detectives and the German took place in Athens a couple of days ago, the man reportedly gave critical information about the girl’s fate. He has been described as “important and trustworthy witness.”
(some text removed here as not relevant to witness)
cont...
New witness
Citing a memo prepared by the Greek Police on 18 July 2017, To Vima reports that the German national had contacted the Grange team last May the aim to help investigation. The Police memo was based on a briefing the Greek police representative in London had received by the Metropolitan Police of UK.
The 46-year-old had reportedly given to Metropolitan Policed “voluntarily and without any financial or other consideration, information about the case that has been cross-checked” and “he is considered a reliable source.”
Citing several police sources and documents, To Vima writes that the German national who has permanent residence in France was arrested in Igoumenista, North-West Greece, in 2011 for the transport of illegal migrants from Africa. A case was filed but he was set free. He was arrested again in Thessaloniki in 2015, when he returned to Greece for holidays. He was sentenced to seven years and five months imprisonment. He denied charges claiming he had helped the three hiking foreigners. He served his sentence in the prison of Chania, Crete, and from there he contacted the team Grange.
HE was released form prison a few weeks ago and he allegedly used a cell phone registered to a woman, national of a Balkan country, and resident of Agios Panteleimonas district of Athens.
The man had been banned from living the country pending 2nd degree trial scheduled for next month.
To Vima has reportedly contacted the man in the region of Fthiotida, Central Greece. He admitted to have talked with Scotland Yard detectives who had come to Athens in order to talk with him.
“I give important information for the case. On the day Madeleine disappeared I was also in the particular province in Portugal, in a neighboring area,” the German national told the newspaper. He claimed that he had contacted the local police back then but there was no further investigation.
“Now there is keen interest from Scotland Yard for the information I have, however I am not allowed to say anything to anyone else.” the man said adding that his cooperation with British police will continue in the coming days.
To Vima-reporter’s question about Madeleine’s fate and if he thinks she was still alive, the man replied, ten years have passed since then are a lot..”
Full story To Vima online.
"He claimed that he had contacted the local police back then but there was no further investigation" - that has the ring of truth to it...
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Then surely based on your extensive knowledge of the witnesses you have been able to form a view as to their reliability or not?
The question is how reliable are they - IMO seems not very credible/reliable as witnesses when their evidence stands alone.
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The question is how reliable are they - IMO seems not very credible/reliable as witnesses when their evidence stands alone.
That's your opinion. Meanwhile others with perhaps better sources than yourself say
"The meeting between the British detectives and the German took place in Athens a couple of days ago, the man reportedly gave critical information about the girl’s fate. He has been described as “important and trustworthy witness.” "
and
"The 46-year-old had reportedly given to Metropolitan Policed “voluntarily and without any financial or other consideration, information about the case that has been cross-checked” and “he is considered a reliable source.”"
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That's your opinion. Meanwhile others with perhaps better sources than yourself say
"The meeting between the British detectives and the German took place in Athens a couple of days ago, the man reportedly gave critical information about the girl’s fate. He has been described as “important and trustworthy witness.” "
and
"The 46-year-old had reportedly given to Metropolitan Policed “voluntarily and without any financial or other consideration, information about the case that has been cross-checked” and “he is considered a reliable source.”"
The whole point is according to HCW it doesn't stand alone
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"He claimed that he had contacted the local police back then but there was no further investigation" - that has the ring of truth to it...
Therefore not only did the Portuguese have witness information concerning Brueckner they had evidence supplied by the phone companies linking his phone made from Luz in the hours prior to Madeleine's disappearance.
How desperately sad is that but how unsurprising.
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The whole point is according to HCW it doesn't stand alone
Yes but that is only according to him... usually you are a stickler of evidence yet with wolt you take everything it seems as gospel ...without any evidence.
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Yes but that is only according to him... usually you are a stickler of evidence yet with wolt you take everything it seems as gospel ...without any evidence.
I've said before.. If the present Portuguese investigation said they had concrete evidence of the McCanns involvement I would find that significant and want to know what it was
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Yes but that is only according to him... usually you are a stickler of evidence yet with wolt you take everything it seems as gospel ...without any evidence.
There's a difference between "take as gospel" and "accept the possibility that they have some significant evidence they haven't shared with the rest of the world yet".
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https://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2017/08/28/madeleine-mccann-greece/
August 28, 2017
Scotland Yard is looking for the secret of British toddler Madeleine McCann in Athens after a witness contacted the team Grange. A Greek newspaper revealed that a German citizen living in Athens contacted “Team Grange” claiming he had information about the case as he was in nearby area when 3-year-old Madeleine disappeared from a hotel in Algarve Portugal in 2007.
According to Sunday newspaper To Vima, the 46-year-old German citizen has already spoken with detectives of Scotland Yard’s “Grange”, a team established in 2011 and assigned with the Madeleine’s case.
The meeting between the British detectives and the German took place in Athens a couple of days ago, the man reportedly gave critical information about the girl’s fate. He has been described as “important and trustworthy witness.”
(some text removed here as not relevant to witness)
cont...
New witness
Citing a memo prepared by the Greek Police on 18 July 2017, To Vima reports that the German national had contacted the Grange team last May the aim to help investigation. The Police memo was based on a briefing the Greek police representative in London had received by the Metropolitan Police of UK.
The 46-year-old had reportedly given to Metropolitan Policed “voluntarily and without any financial or other consideration, information about the case that has been cross-checked” and “he is considered a reliable source.”
Citing several police sources and documents, To Vima writes that the German national who has permanent residence in France was arrested in Igoumenista, North-West Greece, in 2011 for the transport of illegal migrants from Africa. A case was filed but he was set free. He was arrested again in Thessaloniki in 2015, when he returned to Greece for holidays. He was sentenced to seven years and five months imprisonment. He denied charges claiming he had helped the three hiking foreigners. He served his sentence in the prison of Chania, Crete, and from there he contacted the team Grange.
HE was released form prison a few weeks ago and he allegedly used a cell phone registered to a woman, national of a Balkan country, and resident of Agios Panteleimonas district of Athens.
The man had been banned from living the country pending 2nd degree trial scheduled for next month.
To Vima has reportedly contacted the man in the region of Fthiotida, Central Greece. He admitted to have talked with Scotland Yard detectives who had come to Athens in order to talk with him.
“I give important information for the case. On the day Madeleine disappeared I was also in the particular province in Portugal, in a neighboring area,” the German national told the newspaper. He claimed that he had contacted the local police back then but there was no further investigation.
“Now there is keen interest from Scotland Yard for the information I have, however I am not allowed to say anything to anyone else.” the man said adding that his cooperation with British police will continue in the coming days.
To Vima-reporter’s question about Madeleine’s fate and if he thinks she was still alive, the man replied, ten years have passed since then are a lot..”
Full story To Vima online.
Thank you Misty but there is nothing in your article to disprove that Busching sat on information from Brueckner for nine years.
What it does prove is that Busching is a hardened criminal who has made money from desperate people’s misery.
Another point, it would appear as OG are still treating Madeleine as a missing person Busching hasn’t given them anything to covince them that she is dead, as Wolter claims.
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Thank you Misty but there is nothing in your article to disprove that Busching sat on information from Brueckner for nine years.
What it does prove is that Busching is a hardened criminal who has made money from desperate people’s misery.
Another point, it would appear as OG are still treating Madeleine as a missing person Busching hasn’t given them anything to covince them that she is dead, as Wolter claims.
SY don't have access to all the evidence BKA have gathered on Brueckner.
What possible trigger could there have been back in 2016/17 for Busching to suddenly want to discuss Brueckner with the Met. police? (Somewhere there is a report of a German using a false name contacting Greek police also wanting to discuss Brueckner in 2016)
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Thank you Misty but there is nothing in your article to disprove that Busching sat on information from Brueckner for nine years.
What it does prove is that Busching is a hardened criminal who has made money from desperate people’s misery.
Another point, it would appear as OG are still treating Madeleine as a missing person Busching hasn’t given them anything to covince them that she is dead, as Wolter claims.
Am I the only person who finds it odd when sceptics (who are convinced Madeleine is dead because of the dog alerts) use this argument against HCW?
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SY don't have access to all the evidence BKA have gathered on Brueckner.
What possible trigger could there have been back in 2016/17 for Busching to suddenly want to discuss Brueckner with the Met. police? (Somewhere there is a report of a German using a false name contacting Greek police also wanting to discuss Brueckner in 2016)
I’d be very surprised if BKA hadn’t shared the evidence that have lead them to believe that Madeleine is dead with SY. Surely when running a joint investigation that’s the first thing you’d do? What would be the reason not to? Do you think the German authorities are going to stand back and let SY conduct diligences which they have already performed?
If Busching had been caught trafficking there’s your motive right there. That he eventually was given nothing doesn’t change the fact that that possibly was his motivation.
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I’d be very surprised if BKA hadn’t shared the evidence that have lead them to believe that Madeleine is dead with. Surely when running a joint investigation that’s the first thing you’d do? What would be the reason not to? Do you think the German authorities are going to stand back and let SY conduct diligences which they have already performed?
If Busching had been caught trafficking there’s your motive right there. That he eventually was given nothing doesn’t change the fact that that possibly was his motivation.
Explain how that works.
I presume you've decided this bit of the report must be a lie then
"The 46-year-old had reportedly given to Metropolitan Policed “voluntarily and without any financial or other consideration, information about the case that has been cross-checked” and “he is considered a reliable source.” "
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I’d be very surprised if BKA hadn’t shared the evidence that have lead them to believe that Madeleine is dead with SY. Surely when running a joint investigation that’s the first thing you’d do? What would be the reason not to? Do you think the German authorities are going to stand back and let SY conduct diligences which they have already performed?
If Busching had been caught trafficking there’s your motive right there. That he eventually was given nothing doesn’t change the fact that that possibly was his motivation.
I believe there is some sort of law which prevents images & videos gathered during the course of a criminal investigation being shared with third parties without the owner's consent. The material evidence BKA have gathered may well not have been unearthed at the time SY interviewed Busching.
Where was Brueckner in 2017?
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I believe there is some sort of law which prevents images & videos gathered during the course of a criminal investigation being shared with third parties without the owner's consent. The material evidence BKA have gathered may well not have been unearthed at the time SY interviewed Busching.
Where was Brueckner in 2017?
I’d appreciate a cite for your first claim.
Your second claim I absolutely agree with however there’s been four years for the two authorities to share information and SY still don’t seem convinced Madeleine is dead.
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I’d appreciate a cite for your first claim.
Your second claim I absolutely agree with however there’s been four years for the two authorities to share information and SY still don’t seem convinced Madeleine is dead.
There's a lot of info here
https://www.unodc.org/e4j/en/cybercrime/module-6/key-issues/handling-of-digital-evidence.html
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There's a lot of info here
https://www.unodc.org/e4j/en/cybercrime/module-6/key-issues/handling-of-digital-evidence.html
Thank you. I’ll have a look when I’ve got a minute.
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I believe there is some sort of law which prevents images & videos gathered during the course of a criminal investigation being shared with third parties without the owner's consent. The material evidence BKA have gathered may well not have been unearthed at the time SY interviewed Busching.
Where was Brueckner in 2017?
‘2017 - Convicted of sexual abuse of a child in Germany and sentenced to 15 months in prison’. Was this perhaps his girlfriend’s daughter?
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‘2017 - Convicted of sexual abuse of a child in Germany and sentenced to 15 months in prison’. Was this perhaps his girlfriend’s daughter?
He was extradited from Portugal to Germany in June 2017 to serve that sentence. That was not long after he'd been arrested for exposing himself to young girls in the playground at Sao Bartomoleu de Messines. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8488073/McCann-suspected-extradited-Portugal-twice-child-sex-offences.html
I wonder who he stayed with when he was in Portugal that year?
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https://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2017/08/28/madeleine-mccann-greece/
August 28, 2017
Scotland Yard is looking for the secret of British toddler Madeleine McCann in Athens after a witness contacted the team Grange. A Greek newspaper revealed that a German citizen living in Athens contacted “Team Grange” claiming he had information about the case as he was in nearby area when 3-year-old Madeleine disappeared from a hotel in Algarve Portugal in 2007.
According to Sunday newspaper To Vima, the 46-year-old German citizen has already spoken with detectives of Scotland Yard’s “Grange”, a team established in 2011 and assigned with the Madeleine’s case.
The meeting between the British detectives and the German took place in Athens a couple of days ago, the man reportedly gave critical information about the girl’s fate. He has been described as “important and trustworthy witness.”
(some text removed here as not relevant to witness)
cont...
New witness
Citing a memo prepared by the Greek Police on 18 July 2017, To Vima reports that the German national had contacted the Grange team last May the aim to help investigation. The Police memo was based on a briefing the Greek police representative in London had received by the Metropolitan Police of UK.
The 46-year-old had reportedly given to Metropolitan Policed “voluntarily and without any financial or other consideration, information about the case that has been cross-checked” and “he is considered a reliable source.”
Citing several police sources and documents, To Vima writes that the German national who has permanent residence in France was arrested in Igoumenista, North-West Greece, in 2011 for the transport of illegal migrants from Africa. A case was filed but he was set free. He was arrested again in Thessaloniki in 2015, when he returned to Greece for holidays. He was sentenced to seven years and five months imprisonment. He denied charges claiming he had helped the three hiking foreigners. He served his sentence in the prison of Chania, Crete, and from there he contacted the team Grange.
HE was released form prison a few weeks ago and he allegedly used a cell phone registered to a woman, national of a Balkan country, and resident of Agios Panteleimonas district of Athens.
The man had been banned from living the country pending 2nd degree trial scheduled for next month.
To Vima has reportedly contacted the man in the region of Fthiotida, Central Greece. He admitted to have talked with Scotland Yard detectives who had come to Athens in order to talk with him.
“I give important information for the case. On the day Madeleine disappeared I was also in the particular province in Portugal, in a neighboring area,” the German national told the newspaper. He claimed that he had contacted the local police back then but there was no further investigation.
“Now there is keen interest from Scotland Yard for the information I have, however I am not allowed to say anything to anyone else.” the man said adding that his cooperation with British police will continue in the coming days.
To Vima-reporter’s question about Madeleine’s fate and if he thinks she was still alive, the man replied, ten years have passed since then are a lot..”
Full story To Vima online.
To Vima-reporter’s question about Madeleine’s fate and if he thinks she was still alive, the man replied, ten years have passed since then are a lot..”
I think this sounds like Vima knew that Madeleine was alive in the early days of abduction, but that he had lost touch with the situation because 10 years had passed and anything could have happened during that period.
Does anyone else read it that way ?
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To Vima-reporter’s question about Madeleine’s fate and if he thinks she was still alive, the man replied, ten years have passed since then are a lot..”
I think this sounds like Vima knew that Madeleine was alive in the early days of abduction, but that he had lost touch with the situation because 10 years had passed and anything could have happened during that period.
Does anyone else read it that way ?
I think he knows more than he is saying ~ but I think that may be as a result of the commitment he gave to Scotland Yard that he would only speak to them.
I think they are taking what he has to say very seriously indeed and I think so does he.
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I am convinced the man Tasmin saw was CB, in her statement she says the man was wearing a black leather jacket. The woman who owned the villa where CB lived said he always wore a black leather jacket, coincidence?
https://www.fr24news.com/a/2020/06/villa-owner-of-madeleine-mccann-murder-suspect-urges-police-to-search.html
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I am convinced the man Tasmin saw was CB, in her statement she says the man was wearing a black leather jacket. The woman who owned the villa where CB lived said he always wore a black leather jacket, coincidence?
https://www.fr24news.com/a/2020/06/villa-owner-of-madeleine-mccann-murder-suspect-urges-police-to-search.html
Yes.
I know of a least 5 men who have a black leather jacket and wear it on a regular basis and Brueckner can hardly be called ugly. He certainly seems to have been quite successful with women.
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I am convinced the man Tasmin saw was CB, in her statement she says the man was wearing a black leather jacket. The woman who owned the villa where CB lived said he always wore a black leather jacket, coincidence?
https://www.fr24news.com/a/2020/06/villa-owner-of-madeleine-mccann-murder-suspect-urges-police-to-search.html
This woman also describes him as ugly, as did Tasmin.
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I am convinced the man Tasmin saw was CB, in her statement she says the man was wearing a black leather jacket. The woman who owned the villa where CB lived said he always wore a black leather jacket, coincidence?
https://www.fr24news.com/a/2020/06/villa-owner-of-madeleine-mccann-murder-suspect-urges-police-to-search.html
The woman also says she never met him.
Silva, who is Portuguese but speaks strangely with an Australian accent, said that she had never met Brueckner when he stayed at her house.
https://www.fr24news.com/a/2020/06/villa-owner-of-madeleine-mccann-murder-suspect-urges-police-to-search.html
Perhaps she was told about it by local people just as she was told he carried a gun;
“He likes to intimidate people from what I’ve been told. Everyone was talking about him with the gun because it was so unusual.
https://www.fr24news.com/a/2020/06/villa-owner-of-madeleine-mccann-murder-suspect-urges-police-to-search.html
According to Seyforth in the latest documentary Brueckner dressed smartly, like a head waiter, he wasn't like them. I understood him to mean CB wasn't hippy-like, which is how I see Seyforth.
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The woman also says she never met him.
Silva, who is Portuguese but speaks strangely with an Australian accent, said that she had never met Brueckner when he stayed at her house.
https://www.fr24news.com/a/2020/06/villa-owner-of-madeleine-mccann-murder-suspect-urges-police-to-search.html
Perhaps she was told about it by local people just as she was told he carried a gun;
“He likes to intimidate people from what I’ve been told. Everyone was talking about him with the gun because it was so unusual.
https://www.fr24news.com/a/2020/06/villa-owner-of-madeleine-mccann-murder-suspect-urges-police-to-search.html
According to Seyforth in the latest documentary Brueckner dressed smartly, like a head waiter, he wasn't like them. I understood him to mean CB wasn't hippy-like, which is how I see Seyforth.
THe article also says "Silva said she had never seen Brueckner with the gun and thinks it was to enhance his image" which would suggest that she had seen him before, just not with a gun.
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I am convinced the man Tasmin saw was CB, in her statement she says the man was wearing a black leather jacket. The woman who owned the villa where CB lived said he always wore a black leather jacket, coincidence?
https://www.fr24news.com/a/2020/06/villa-owner-of-madeleine-mccann-murder-suspect-urges-police-to-search.html
Well, it seems CB went on a mission obviously trying to be discreet yet went in his everyday wear.
Strange how all these bungling things he did leading up to the abduction.
Yet then was the ultimate professional abductor leaving not one iota of evidence.
Leather Jackets IMO never go out of style and are worn by most men imo.
Image result for are black leather jackets popular to wear for men
Most men's leather jackets can be worn with a range of different outfits, but they work particularly well with smart-casual shirts, jeans or chinos and boots or smarter shoes. These are all clothes that many men will have in their wardrobes anyway, which makes a black leather jacket a great buy for anyone.
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Well, it seems CB went on a mission obviously trying to be discreet yet went in his everyday wear.
Strange how all these bungling things he did leading up to the abduction.
Yet then was the ultimate professional abductor leaving not one iota of evidence.
Leather Jackets IMO never go out of style and are worn by most men imo.
Image result for are black leather jackets popular to wear for men
Most men's leather jackets can be worn with a range of different outfits, but they work particularly well with smart-casual shirts, jeans or chinos and boots or smarter shoes. These are all clothes that many men will have in their wardrobes anyway, which makes a black leather jacket a great buy for anyone.
Twice he was seen around 8am, exactly the time most people would be out and about going to work, school, breakfast and, arguably when he would be at his most visible. I’m not sure what information he could have gleaned at that time and at that position anyway.
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Well, it seems CB went on a mission obviously trying to be discreet yet went in his everyday wear.
Strange how all these bungling things he did leading up to the abduction.
Yet then was the ultimate professional abductor leaving not one iota of evidence.
Leather Jackets IMO never go out of style and are worn by most men imo.
Image result for are black leather jackets popular to wear for men
Most men's leather jackets can be worn with a range of different outfits, but they work particularly well with smart-casual shirts, jeans or chinos and boots or smarter shoes. These are all clothes that many men will have in their wardrobes anyway, which makes a black leather jacket a great buy for anyone.
Have you had a name change?
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Twice he was seen around 8am, exactly the time most people would be out and about going to work, school, breakfast and, arguably when he would be at his most visible. I’m not sure what information he could have gleaned at that time and at that position anyway.
Paedos who are interested in children will be on the lookout for potential victims at the times children are visible and about. If you wanted to know which properties had children in what time would you do your scouting?
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Paedos who are interested in children will be on the lookout for potential victims at the times children are visible and about. If you wanted to know which properties had children in what time would you do your scouting?
Hanging around staring fixedly at the very apartment from which a child was later to go missing seems a bit obvious don't you think?
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Hanging around staring fixedly at the very apartment from which a child was later to go missing seems a bit obvious don't you think?
Not only once but four times. Strangely though never at night when, arguably, he could actually have learned something.
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Hanging around staring fixedly at the very apartment from which a child was later to go missing seems a bit obvious don't you think?
Obviously not if it was him - he still hasn't been charged with the abduction has he? this is a man who masturbated in front of young children within sight of their parents. bit obvious that!
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Not only once but four times. Strangely though never at night when, arguably, he could actually have learned something.
How do you know "never at night"? Just because he wasn't observed doesn't mean he wasn't lurking about in the shadows somewhere.
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Anyway Tasmin Sillence’s sighting has been identified.
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that's alright them. Definitely wasn't Bruckener, we can all go home now.
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How do you know "never at night"? Just because he wasn't observed doesn't mean he wasn't lurking about in the shadows somewhere.
Nobody saw the invisible man either, but that doesn't mean he wasn't there.
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Nobody saw the invisible man either, but that doesn't mean he wasn't there.
no one’s suggested an invisible man was involved but thanks for your valuable input.
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The woman also says she never met him.
Silva, who is Portuguese but speaks strangely with an Australian accent, said that she had never met Brueckner when he stayed at her house.
https://www.fr24news.com/a/2020/06/villa-owner-of-madeleine-mccann-murder-suspect-urges-police-to-search.html
Perhaps she was told about it by local people just as she was told he carried a gun;
“He likes to intimidate people from what I’ve been told. Everyone was talking about him with the gun because it was so unusual.
https://www.fr24news.com/a/2020/06/villa-owner-of-madeleine-mccann-murder-suspect-urges-police-to-search.html
According to Seyforth in the latest documentary Brueckner dressed smartly, like a head waiter, he wasn't like them. I understood him to mean CB wasn't hippy-like, which is how I see Seyforth.
Quote by Lia Silva - She said, “I didn’t know his name at the time, but he was a very good friend of Nicole. He was an ugly man who always wore a black leather jacket
'I didn't know his name at the time'. Which suggests to me she had seen him but didn't know who he was as she hadn't met and spoken to him.
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Quote by Lia Silva - She said, “I didn’t know his name at the time, but he was a very good friend of Nicole. He was an ugly man who always wore a black leather jacket
'I didn't know his name at the time'. Which suggests to me she had seen him but didn't know who he was as she hadn't met and spoken to him.
And this ‘ Silva, who is Portuguese but speaks strangely with an Australian accent, said that she had never met Brueckner when he stayed at her house.’ suggests to me that she had never met him...no guesswork or ambiguity.
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And this ‘ Silva, who is Portuguese but speaks strangely with an Australian accent, said that she had never met Brueckner when he stayed at her house.’ suggests to me that she had never met him...no guesswork or ambiguity.
That clearly states she never met him when he stayed at her house, no guesswork or ambiguity needed.
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That clearly states she never met him when he stayed at her house, no guesswork or ambiguity needed.
Look, He's Ugly, okay.
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And this ‘ Silva, who is Portuguese but speaks strangely with an Australian accent, said that she had never met Brueckner when he stayed at her house.’ suggests to me that she had never met him...no guesswork or ambiguity.
You'd have to at least seen him in order to know he always wore the jacket.
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Look, He's Ugly, okay.
He’s obviously not.
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You'd have to at least seen him in order to know he always wore the jacket.
She could have been told, much like the gun.
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Look, He's Ugly, okay.
I agree. Vulpine. Some women like that look though.
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She could have been told, much like the gun.
Fairly unlikely IMO.
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She could have been told, much like the gun.
So it was well known he wore a black leather jacket, the point still stands then.
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Fairly unlikely IMO.
Not at all.
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And this ‘ Silva, who is Portuguese but speaks strangely with an Australian accent, said that she had never met Brueckner when he stayed at her house.’ suggests to me that she had never met him...no guesswork or ambiguity.
She wasn't there obviously when he stayed at her house, that doesn't mean she hadn't seen him, just that she hadn't met him formally to speak to.
Listen to what she says 'I didn't know his name at the time'.
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He’s obviously not.
He was thirty at the time, skinny with a big nose [have you seen the picture of him facing sideways?]. Acne all over his face. Not a pretty sight.
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She could have been told, much like the gun.
It depends who told her about the gun. If it was his girlfriend she wasn't going to say he was ugly was she.
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She wasn't there obviously when he stayed at her house, that doesn't mean she hadn't seen him, just that she hadn't met him formally to speak to.
Listen to what she says 'I didn't know his name at the time'.
Of course it doesn’t mean she hadn’t seen him but she doesn’t say that and that’s the only information we have.
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Of course it doesn’t mean she hadn’t seen him but she doesn’t say that and that’s the only information we have.
She says she didn't see him when he was living at her house which clearly implies she had seen him at other times otherwise she would have said I never saw him once.
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I agree. Vulpine. Some women like that look though.
Some women like Ugly men.
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He was thirty at the time, skinny with a big nose [have you seen the picture of him facing sideways?]. Acne all over his face. Not a pretty sight.
He scares the hell out of me.
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Some women like Ugly men.
They certainly do but we have seen his photograph and, objectively, Brueckner can’t be called ugly.
I’ve heard Gerry described as having a ‘sour’ face and looking like a bulldog who’s licking pee off of a nettle. I think that’s unfair too.
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He scares the hell out of me.
It is difficult at this point to separate what you know about him from how you feel about him.
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Some women like Ugly men.
Obviously.
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They certainly do but we have seen his photograph and, objectively, Brueckner can’t be called ugly.
I’ve heard Gerry described as having a ‘sour’ face and looking like a bulldog who’s licking pee off of a nettle. I think that’s unfair too.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If someone wants to describe Bruckner as ugly that is their opinion and they are entitled to it. The fact that more than one person shares that opinion means that he CAN be called ugly and HAS been called ugly. Just cos you think he's attractive is beside the point.
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They certainly do but we have seen his photograph and, objectively, Brueckner can’t be called ugly.
I’ve heard Gerry described as having a ‘sour’ face and looking like a bulldog who’s licking pee off of a nettle. I think that’s unfair too.
Sinister then? Will that do? Although I personally don't fancy Gerry.
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Sinister then? Will that do? Although I personally don't fancy Gerry.
Oh he’s definitely sinister but that doesn’t show in his face.
This is how the young hitchhikers who he gave a lift a few weeks before Madeleine disappeared described him.
“ He seemed like any other ordinary young man. He was cheerful and joked a lot and happy to give us a ride in his VW.”
And
“ He was a stranger and decided to drive us,” Tomas said.
"He told us to call him the ‘Happy Hobby Hippy’ because he liked to hang out with people who were hippies.
“When we got there we all hugged him and thanked him and he said he was going on back to Portugal.”
A few days later he messaged them to say: “Guys, enjoy your remaining days with all your heart, because reality will catch up with you very quickly.”
Unfortunately real devils don’t have horns.
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Oh he’s definitely sinister but that doesn’t show in his face.
This is how the young hitchhikers who he gave a lift a few weeks before Madeleine disappeared described him.
“ He seemed like any other ordinary young man. He was cheerful and joked a lot and happy to give us a ride in his VW.”
And
“ He was a stranger and decided to drive us,” Tomas said.
"He told us to call him the ‘Happy Hobby Hippy’ because he liked to hang out with people who were hippies.
“When we got there we all hugged him and thanked him and he said he was going on back to Portugal.”
A few days later he messaged them to say: “Guys, enjoy your remaining days with all your heart, because reality will catch up with you very quickly.”
Unfortunately real devils don’t have horns.
A lucky escape then?
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A lucky escape then?
Who knows.
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A lucky escape then?
They weren't vulnerable, alone, frightened and in his power. Nor were those in his circle of friends.
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They weren't vulnerable, alone, frightened and in his power. Nor were those in his circle of friends.
Agreed.
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Who knows.
Apparently he does only attack women and small girls, preferably when they are unprotected. So a bit of a coward.
I don't know if he is guilty of abducting and murdering Madeleine, although I wouldn't be surprised if he is capable. Nor do I know enough about German Law, but I wouldn't be surprised by what they are allowed to get away with either.
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Apparently he does only attack women and small girls, preferably when they are unprotected. So a bit of a coward.
I don't know if he is guilty of abducting and murdering Madeleine, although I wouldn't be surprised if he is capable. Nor do I know enough about German Law, but I wouldn't be surprised by what they are allowed to get away with either.
An out and out coward and in the right circumstances perhaps he may be capable of abduction and murder but there is nothing in the information in the public domain to connect him to Madeleine’s disappearance. That’s simply a fact.
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An out and out coward and in the right circumstances perhaps he may be capable of abduction and murder but there is nothing in the information in the public domain to connect him to Madeleine’s disappearance. That’s simply a fact.
Yet.
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Yet.
There is a connection.
There is a connection with his phone which pinged in Luz at a relevant time.
There is location and there is familiarity with location.
He is a known criminal and it is known he had no qualms about illegally entering properties in pursuit of his nefarious activities.
Of all the paedophiles on the loose in the Algarve I reckon he was certainly worth a second in depth look when the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance hit an impasse ~ yet we are informed he was checked and ruled out at the time.
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An out and out coward and in the right circumstances perhaps he may be capable of abduction and murder but there is nothing in the information in the public domain to connect him to Madeleine’s disappearance. That’s simply a fact.
There is... But you want to dismiss it. Then there is the evidence Wolters has not disclosed... Which you also want to dismiss
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They certainly do but we have seen his photograph and, objectively, Brueckner can’t be called ugly.
I’ve heard Gerry described as having a ‘sour’ face and looking like a bulldog who’s licking pee off of a nettle. I think that’s unfair too.
Anyone can pull an ugly face from time to time.
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There is... But you want to dismiss it. Then there is the evidence Wolters has not disclosed... Which you also want to dismiss
We are waiting! "Why are we waiting?" https://youtu.be/T3to8QdXlpU
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There is a connection.
There is a connection with his phone which pinged in Luz at a relevant time.
There is location and there is familiarity with location.
He is a known criminal and it is known he had no qualms about illegally entering properties in pursuit of his nefarious activities.
Of all the paedophiles on the loose in the Algarve I reckon he was certainly worth a second in depth look when the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance hit an impasse ~ yet we are informed he was checked and ruled out at the time.
Yes his phone pinged around the Luz area...he lived there. As did other paedophiles we are lead to believe.
Yes he would be familiar with the location...he lived there. As did other paedophiles we are lead to believe.
Yes he is a petty criminal who breaks into holidaymakers apartments but has no record of molesting youngsters while inside those apartments or kidnapping children.
And of course he should have been checked out. I posted a quote earlier from the PJ that Brueckner’s details were passed to OG in 2012 but they took it no further. It appears that Brueckner wasn’t flagged up in any investigation until 2017 when another petty criminal put his name forward, possibly for leniency as he faced a long sentence for people trafficking.
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Yes his phone pinged around the Luz area...he lived there. As did other paedophiles we are lead to believe.
Yes he would be familiar with the location...he lived there. As did other paedophiles we are lead to believe.
Yes he is a petty criminal who breaks into holidaymakers apartments but has no record of molesting youngsters while inside those apartments or kidnapping children.
And of course he should have been checked out. I posted a quote earlier from the PJ that Brueckner’s details were passed to OG in 2012 but they took it no further. It appears that Brueckner wasn’t flagged up in any investigation until 2017 when another petty criminal put his name forward, possibly for leniency as he faced a long sentence for people trafficking.
Is it really THAT easy to get 8 years knocked off your prison sentence?
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https://www.tovima.gr/2017/08/26/society/i-skotlant-giarnt-psaxnei-to-mystiko-tis-mikris-mantlin-stin-athina/
27 August 2017, 05:45
Google translate
According to documents and testimonies revealed by "To Vima tis Kyriakis", the British police have been cooperating with the Hellenic Police in the last few days. for the examination of a 46-year-old German who had been arrested and resides in our country and is identified as an important and reliable witness in the thriller of little Madeline. As it still turns out, a Scotland Yard team met the man a few days ago in Athens and obtained critical information about the girl's fate..........
continued with relevant info about Busching..
Until a few weeks ago, the Greek dimension of the thriller appeared. On July 18, 2017, the Directorate of International Police Cooperation on Katehaki Avenue drafted a document that referred to an update of the "liaison" of the Hellenic Police. in London by the Metropolitan Police of Great Britain. As it is noted, "in May 2017, the 46-year-old man of German origin, who lives in Athens, contacted the team of the" Grange "operation, in order to assist in the specific investigations" . According to the same document, the 46-year-old had been imprisoned for the case of illegal immigrants and was present at the police services, but without being identified.
Reliable witness?
As indicated in the document of the Directorate of International Police Cooperation based on the information of Scotland Yard, " so far the information he has given voluntarily and without monetary or other consideration to the Metropolitan Police about the case has been cross-checked and is considered a reliable source" !
A further investigation by the Police Cooperation Directorate revealed that the 46-year-old German, who lived in France, was arrested in 2011 in Igoumenitsa when he tried to transport three illegal immigrants from Africa in his car. A case was filed against him and he was then released. . According to other sources, the foreigner was arrested in 2015 in Thessaloniki when he came back to Greece for a vacation. He was taken to court where he was sentenced to seven years and five months in prison. He had denied any wrongdoing and claimed that he "facilitated the three foreigners who had hitchhiked him". He was detained in Chania prison, from where he communicated with the members of the "Grange" operation.
He was released a few weeks ago and allegedly used a mobile phone belonging to a foreigner from a Balkan country, who lived in Agios Panteleimon. In addition, he has been banned from leaving the country in view of the trial in the second instance, which has been determined for next month.
Testimony in "VIMA"
"To Vima" located the 46-year-old foreigner and a critical witness in the case of three-year-old Madeline in an area of Fthiotida. As he noted, "I met a few days ago with a member of the Scotland Yard who came to Athens. I give important information about the case. On the days that Madeline disappeared, I was - in a neighboring area - in this province of Portugal. I had contacted the local police even then, but the investigation had been abandoned. Now there is intense interest from Scotland Yard for what I know. You understand that something serious is happening for them to come here to meet me. But I have an explicit prohibition on saying anything to anyone else. My cooperation with the English police will continue in the coming days "
***
However, when asked about Madeline's fate and whether she believes she is alive, he only answered that "the ten years that have passed since then are many"
_____________________________________________________________________________
Credit Chiatos on Websleuths who also said that it's common in Greece for prisoners to only serve 1/3 of their sentence.
Later on I will try to do a timeline showing where Seyferth has lived since 2007, based on his various Facebook accounts.
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https://www.tovima.gr/2017/08/26/society/i-skotlant-giarnt-psaxnei-to-mystiko-tis-mikris-mantlin-stin-athina/
27 August 2017, 05:45
Google translate
According to documents and testimonies revealed by "To Vima tis Kyriakis", the British police have been cooperating with the Hellenic Police in the last few days. for the examination of a 46-year-old German who had been arrested and resides in our country and is identified as an important and reliable witness in the thriller of little Madeline. As it still turns out, a Scotland Yard team met the man a few days ago in Athens and obtained critical information about the girl's fate..........
continued with relevant info about Busching..
Until a few weeks ago, the Greek dimension of the thriller appeared. On July 18, 2017, the Directorate of International Police Cooperation on Katehaki Avenue drafted a document that referred to an update of the "liaison" of the Hellenic Police. in London by the Metropolitan Police of Great Britain. As it is noted, "in May 2017, the 46-year-old man of German origin, who lives in Athens, contacted the team of the" Grange "operation, in order to assist in the specific investigations" . According to the same document, the 46-year-old had been imprisoned for the case of illegal immigrants and was present at the police services, but without being identified.
Reliable witness?
As indicated in the document of the Directorate of International Police Cooperation based on the information of Scotland Yard, " so far the information he has given voluntarily and without monetary or other consideration to the Metropolitan Police about the case has been cross-checked and is considered a reliable source" !
A further investigation by the Police Cooperation Directorate revealed that the 46-year-old German, who lived in France, was arrested in 2011 in Igoumenitsa when he tried to transport three illegal immigrants from Africa in his car. A case was filed against him and he was then released. . According to other sources, the foreigner was arrested in 2015 in Thessaloniki when he came back to Greece for a vacation. He was taken to court where he was sentenced to seven years and five months in prison. He had denied any wrongdoing and claimed that he "facilitated the three foreigners who had hitchhiked him". He was detained in Chania prison, from where he communicated with the members of the "Grange" operation.
He was released a few weeks ago and allegedly used a mobile phone belonging to a foreigner from a Balkan country, who lived in Agios Panteleimon. In addition, he has been banned from leaving the country in view of the trial in the second instance, which has been determined for next month.
Testimony in "VIMA"
"To Vima" located the 46-year-old foreigner and a critical witness in the case of three-year-old Madeline in an area of Fthiotida. As he noted, "I met a few days ago with a member of the Scotland Yard who came to Athens. I give important information about the case. On the days that Madeline disappeared, I was - in a neighboring area - in this province of Portugal. I had contacted the local police even then, but the investigation had been abandoned. Now there is intense interest from Scotland Yard for what I know. You understand that something serious is happening for them to come here to meet me. But I have an explicit prohibition on saying anything to anyone else. My cooperation with the English police will continue in the coming days "
***
However, when asked about Madeline's fate and whether she believes she is alive, he only answered that "the ten years that have passed since then are many"
_____________________________________________________________________________
Credit Chiatos on Websleuths who also said that it's common in Greece for prisoners to only serve 1/3 of their sentence.
Later on I will try to do a timeline showing where Seyferth has lived since 2007, based on his various Facebook accounts.
Why do you think Busching waited 9 years to come forward with the information?
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https://www.tovima.gr/2017/08/26/society/i-skotlant-giarnt-psaxnei-to-mystiko-tis-mikris-mantlin-stin-athina/
27 August 2017, 05:45
Google translate
According to documents and testimonies revealed by "To Vima tis Kyriakis", the British police have been cooperating with the Hellenic Police in the last few days. for the examination of a 46-year-old German who had been arrested and resides in our country and is identified as an important and reliable witness in the thriller of little Madeline. As it still turns out, a Scotland Yard team met the man a few days ago in Athens and obtained critical information about the girl's fate..........
continued with relevant info about Busching..
Until a few weeks ago, the Greek dimension of the thriller appeared. On July 18, 2017, the Directorate of International Police Cooperation on Katehaki Avenue drafted a document that referred to an update of the "liaison" of the Hellenic Police. in London by the Metropolitan Police of Great Britain. As it is noted, "in May 2017, the 46-year-old man of German origin, who lives in Athens, contacted the team of the" Grange "operation, in order to assist in the specific investigations" . According to the same document, the 46-year-old had been imprisoned for the case of illegal immigrants and was present at the police services, but without being identified.
Reliable witness?
As indicated in the document of the Directorate of International Police Cooperation based on the information of Scotland Yard, " so far the information he has given voluntarily and without monetary or other consideration to the Metropolitan Police about the case has been cross-checked and is considered a reliable source" !
A further investigation by the Police Cooperation Directorate revealed that the 46-year-old German, who lived in France, was arrested in 2011 in Igoumenitsa when he tried to transport three illegal immigrants from Africa in his car. A case was filed against him and he was then released. . According to other sources, the foreigner was arrested in 2015 in Thessaloniki when he came back to Greece for a vacation. He was taken to court where he was sentenced to seven years and five months in prison. He had denied any wrongdoing and claimed that he "facilitated the three foreigners who had hitchhiked him". He was detained in Chania prison, from where he communicated with the members of the "Grange" operation.
He was released a few weeks ago and allegedly used a mobile phone belonging to a foreigner from a Balkan country, who lived in Agios Panteleimon. In addition, he has been banned from leaving the country in view of the trial in the second instance, which has been determined for next month.
Testimony in "VIMA"
"To Vima" located the 46-year-old foreigner and a critical witness in the case of three-year-old Madeline in an area of Fthiotida. As he noted, "I met a few days ago with a member of the Scotland Yard who came to Athens. I give important information about the case. On the days that Madeline disappeared, I was - in a neighboring area - in this province of Portugal. I had contacted the local police even then, but the investigation had been abandoned. Now there is intense interest from Scotland Yard for what I know. You understand that something serious is happening for them to come here to meet me. But I have an explicit prohibition on saying anything to anyone else. My cooperation with the English police will continue in the coming days "
***
However, when asked about Madeline's fate and whether she believes she is alive, he only answered that "the ten years that have passed since then are many"
_____________________________________________________________________________
Credit Chiatos on Websleuths who also said that it's common in Greece for prisoners to only serve 1/3 of their sentence.
Later on I will try to do a timeline showing where Seyferth has lived since 2007, based on his various Facebook accounts.
Thanks, Misty.
So nothing extraordinary or remarkable about early release from Greek jails.
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Why do you think Busching waited 9 years to come forward with the information?
He didn’t.
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Thanks, Misty.
So nothing extraordinary or remarkable about early release from Greek jails.
From my link the least he would get was 10 years. I’d say that he was released after 2 very remarkable.
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Busching and Seyforth appear to have been drifters around Europe, visiting places where hippies gathered in Portugal, Spain and Italy. Both seemed to be thieves and opportunists, doing what they needed to do to survive. According to Friedrich Fulscher, Christian B’s lawyer;
“My client is being investigated on the claims of two very dubious and unbelievable witnesses who are convicted criminals themselves and have problems with drink and drugs.”
Although Busching claims Brueckner told him in 2008 that he was involved in Madeleine McCann's disappearance, he apparently did nothing about it until 2017, when he spoke to UK police officers. Why he decided to speak at that point isn't known as far as I know.
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From my link the least he would get was 10 years. I’d say that he was released after 2 very remarkable.
A maximum of ten years according to this
Article 323A
“1. A person who, by the use of force, threat of force or other coercive means, or by imposition or abuse of power, or by abduction, recruits, transports, transfers inside or outside the territory of the country, retains, harbours, delivers with or without a benefit a person to another person, or receives a person, with the purpose of removing cells, tissues or organs of a person or exploiting the labour or begging or forced marriage thereof, shall be punished by a maximum penalty of 10 years’ imprisonment and by a fine of ten thousand to fifty thousand euros.
https://eucpn.org/sites/default/files/document/files/EL_0.pdf
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More information on Greek punishments for human trafficking offences here
Of the 33 convictions for which the government provided sentencing data, 31 received prison sentences of more than 18 months. Eleven sex traffickers received prison sentences between 18 months and nine years with fines ranging between €1,000 ($1,200) to €50,000 ($60,020). Nineteen sex traffickers received prison sentences between 10 years and 20 years with fines ranging between €25,000 ($30,010) and €71,300 ($85,590). One labor trafficker received four months imprisonment and another received 10 years with a fine of €50,000 ($60,020). The government sentenced one trafficker to community-based rehabilitation and could not provide sentencing data for four traffickers. Courts also issued six convictions at the second instance (one in 2016); sentences ranged from three years and a small fine to six years and €10,000 ($12,000).
https://www.state.gov/reports/2018-trafficking-in-persons-report/greece/
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This should put paid to the idea that our man would have received a prison sentence of 10 years:
Law 2910 / 2 May 2001
Legal entry and stay in the Hellenic territory
Article 55
Obligations of Carriers – Sanctions
1. Skipper or captains of ships or other sea-going vessels or aircraft, and drivers of any kind of transport, who transports to Greece from abroad aliens who have no right of entry into Greek territory, or who have been refused entry for whatever reason, together with those who provide onward transport for them within Greece or facilitate their transport or onward journey, or provide them with a hiding-place, will be liable to:
a) a prison sentence of at least one year and a fine of between 5.000€ and 20.000 € for each person transported
b) a prison sentence of at least two years and a fine of between 15.000€ and 50.000 € for each person transported, where the transport is carried out on a professional basis, or where the offender is a public servant or a tourist, shipping or travel agent.
c) imprisonment and a fine of at least 100.000€ if danger to persons may result from
the action
d) life imprisonment and a fine of at least 500.000€ if incident resulted death
The period allowed for appeal and the appeal itself do not result in suspension of the
https://www.osservatoriointerventitratta.it/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Law_to_combat_Trafficking_in_Human_Beings_crimes_against_carnal_freedom_.pdf
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Busching and Seyforth appear to have been drifters around Europe, visiting places where hippies gathered in Portugal, Spain and Italy. Both seemed to be thieves and opportunists, doing what they needed to do to survive. According to Friedrich Fulscher, Christian B’s lawyer;
“My client is being investigated on the claims of two very dubious and unbelievable witnesses who are convicted criminals themselves and have problems with drink and drugs.”
Although Busching claims Brueckner told him in 2008 that he was involved in Madeleine McCann's disappearance, he apparently did nothing about it until 2017, when he spoke to UK police officers. Why he decided to speak at that point isn't known as far as I know.
According to him he went to the Portuguese police at thr time, but obviously you refuse to believe that.
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Why do you think Busching waited 9 years to come forward with the information?
Maybe he was told to? I ask myself why he would even be remotely interested in the case of British child who went missing in Portugal many years before he made the call to OG, just as Tatschl was interested enough to pay close attention to the Netflix documentary about the same incident.
IIRC Busching's sentence was 7 years and he served about 2 years 5 months.
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Maybe he was told to? I ask myself why he would even be remotely interested in the case of British child who went missing in Portugal many years before he made the call to OG, just as Tatschl was interested enough to pay close attention to the Netflix documentary about the same incident.
IIRC Busching's sentence was 7 years and he served about 2 years 5 months.
Some places are like that you can serve 1/3 of your sentence and the rest out on parole. (Not sure where but I think that was the case.)
"Oliver is released on parole
Oliver qualifies for parole after serving one-third of his sentence – one year. Parole means Oliver is released from prison but has to follow conditions set by the New Zealand Parole Board. Oliver will have to follow these conditions for the remaining two years of his sentence." https://www.justice.govt.nz/about/learn-about-the-justice-system/explore-the-criminal-justice-system/trial-and-prison/
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Maybe he was told to? I ask myself why he would even be remotely interested in the case of British child who went missing in Portugal many years before he made the call to OG, just as Tatschl was interested enough to pay close attention to the Netflix documentary about the same incident.
IIRC Busching's sentence was 7 years and he served about 2 years 5 months.
“ However, he did not appear in court and was arrested in 2015 in Thessaloniki when he had returned to Greece on vacation.
He was taken to court where he was sentenced to seven years and five months in prison”
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From Websleuths
HB
- has permanent residence in France
- Francophile with ties to Corsica
- 2007 was in Algarve
- 2011, April, arrested in Brindisi for social unrest
- 2011(?) lived in Athens
- 2011 arrested in Igoumenitsa, Corfu, for transporting migrants from Africa, but was released soon after
- 2015 arrested in Thessaloniki for transporting 3 migrants in Corfu and sentenced to 7+ yrs.
- 2015, April 9th, in prison in Chania, Crete, and released in July 2017
- 2016, as from Oct. he uses cell phone of a Balkan woman
- 2017 (May) used the cell phone of a Balkan woman residing in Athens to contact Operation Grange about MM
- 2017 (July) released from prison in Chania, Crete
- 2017 lived in Lamia (NW from Athens) after his release
Main sources:
Η Σκότλαντ Γιαρντ ψάχνει το «μυστικό» της μικρής Μαντλίν στην Αθήνα - Ειδήσεις - νέα - Το Βήμα Online
Στην Ελλάδα «τμήμα» της έρευνας για την εξαφάνιση της μικρής Μαντλίν – Αποκαλυπτικά έγγραφα - LarissaPress
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Maybe he was told to? I ask myself why he would even be remotely interested in the case of British child who went missing in Portugal many years before he made the call to OG, just as Tatschl was interested enough to pay close attention to the Netflix documentary about the same incident.
IIRC Busching's sentence was 7 years and he served about 2 years 5 months.
He was probably interested in the case because a) he appears to have frequented Portugal at the time and b) information on a world famous case like this would certainly give in the most leverage with law enforcement.
Can you truly in your heart of hearts describe an individual who...
Burglarised houses.
Kept the details of two rapes secret, potentially endangering more women.
Kept secret the confession of his friend that he had kidnapped Madeleine for 9 years, potentially putting more children at risk.
Trafficked individuals potentially to feed the sex and forced labour markets
Attacked a homeless person.
a reliable witness?
Of course this is only the crimes that we’re aware of.
Imagine if he’d gone to the police when Brueckner allegedly confessed to him how many years of suffering he would have spared Madeleine’s parents.
It really is beyond me how anyone, let alone law enforcement, can believe a word this degenerate says.
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Interesting Greek document about Bushing’s calles to. Op Grange, state he contacted them anonymously in the first instance
Directorate of International Police Cooperation
SIRENE Department
(addresses and names and phone numbers follow)
Notification/Communication: 1) Directorate of Criminological Investigations 2) ΥΕΕΒΕ (CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION DEPARTMENT OF NORTHERN GREECE)
3) *possibly* Police station of Thessaloniki
Theme: Article 32 of Decision 2007/533 / JHA - MISSING PERSON - NATIONAL of UNITED KINGDOM McCann Madeleine, born 12/5/2003 - Registration by the Portuguese authorities
Athens, 18/7/2017 (18th of July 2017)
Electronic *trafficking?* for those ... who are connected to the POL network
To: 1) Initial Identity Search Branch (not sure how to translate this)
2) Thessaloniki Police Department
3) TA Omonia (Omonia Security Department)
1. We are letting you know that the minor in question is registered in SIS II under Article 32 (Measure for Missing Persons - Minors) by the Dutch authorities, as on 3/5/2007, at the age of four, she disappeared when she was on holiday with her parents at the tourist resort Praia da Luz in Portugal.
2. Following information we received from the Hellenic (Greek) Police Association in London, it is reported that the Metropolitan Police of London has submitted a request related to the "Grange" operation, which is active in gathering information and attempting to locate her, regarding the matter with the aforementioned minor.
3. More specifically, in May of this year a person who initially refused to disclose their identity, contacted the team of the Grange operation, but who afterwards admitted of being a German national and is named L***, born in 1971, and mentioned that he has information and would like to aid the British authorities in their searches. The one in question, who uses the no. 6*** mobile phone, stated that he lives in an area of Attica and that he was recently released after serving a sentence of 2 years and seven months for an offence he allegedly committed in 2011 - most likely a case of smuggling illegal immigrants. He further stated that he must report once a month to a police station (which he did not know to name but it is believed to be the Omonia Police Department) and that he has been barred from leaving the country. He also stated that in Greece he maintains friendly relations with a German citizen, about 60 years old. So far, the information he has given voluntarily and without any financial or other consideration to the Metropolitan Police regarding the case has been cross-checked and is considered a reliable source.
4. In order to fulfil (satisfy) the request of the London Metropolitan Police, please let us know of any available information which arises from the files kept by your Service.
5. The Services to which this document is notified are requested to be informed and to act competently and consequently inform us in this regard.
6. Please let your answers be communicated to the other recipients hereof for their information.
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Another translation of another Greek document, lifted from Websleuths
INTERNATIONAL POLICE COOPERATION DIVISION
Attica Security Directorate
File and Identity Search Sub-Directorate / Search Department
(addresses and names and phone numbers follow)
Theme: Article 32 of Decision 2007/533 / JHA - MISSING PERSON - NATIONAL of the UNITED KINGDOM McCann Madeleine, born 12/5/2003 - Registration by the Portuguese authorities
Athens, 20/7/2017 (20th of July 2017)
Electronic *trafficking?* for those who are connected to the POL network
To: 1) INTERNATIONAL POLICE COOPERATION DIVISION
In execution of the above, we inform you that from the Archive of our Directorate nothing appears for the German citizen L ****, born 1971, as he happens to be unknown.
From the searches we carried out for him in the available applications of the Department of Informatics, his full identity was verified, which are B **** (surname) H*** (name) of RAINER and IRENE, born 11/02/1971 in Germany, holder of the passport no. xxxxxx issued by the German Authorities and of the xxxxxx Tax Registration Number certified by the Tax Office of Chania, with declared residence address at the Agricultural Detention Center Agios and contact phone number 28210-xxxxx (which corresponds to the telephone number of the secretariat of the aforementioned Detention Center).
For the above individual, the no. 83351 file prepared by the YEEVE (Directorate of Criminal Investigations in Northern Greece) of KTH type, with registration date on 10/04/2015, as well as the no. 001381180 kept file (person number and form 6169191) at the AEA (Directorate of State Security of the Greek Police Headquarters) / Directorate of Foreigners, which is said to have been drawn up on 03/05/2017, in the context of the first registration of a foreigner DIRECTORY by the same Service.
From our further investigation, it emerged that he is registered by the Chania Police Directorate in the application "Permits-Release of Prisoners" with number 1294B2, as he had received three exit permits while he was detained at the Agricultural Detention Center of Agia Chania. 09/04/2015)
According to the external communications data provided to us by the company concerned for the no. 69xxx telephone connection, the holder of which is a foreign national under data ATANASOVA (surname) KAMELIYA (name) with declared residential address on Kozozi street no. XX in Athens (area of Agios Panteleimon), with ID number 643488247, which activated this connection in 2016. (cannot see the exact date)
Our Service is constantly on the case and in case the missing person is located or in case further information emerges that may contribute to it, we will come back.
Please be advised.
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"It really is beyond me how anyone, let alone law enforcement, can believe a word this degenerate says."
They don't have a lot of choice.
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He was probably interested in the case because a) he appears to have frequented Portugal at the time and b) information on a world famous case like this would certainly give in the most leverage with law enforcement.
Can you truly in your heart of hearts describe an individual who...
Burglarised houses.
Kept the details of two rapes secret, potentially endangering more women.
Kept secret the confession of his friend that he had kidnapped Madeleine for 9 years, potentially putting more children at risk.
Trafficked individuals potentially to feed the sex and forced labour markets
Attacked a homeless person.
a reliable witness?
Of course this is only the crimes that we’re aware of.
Imagine if he’d gone to the police when Brueckner allegedly confessed to him how many years of suffering he would have spared Madeleine’s parents.
It really is beyond me how anyone, let alone law enforcement, can believe a word this degenerate says.
Wouldn't he have held more leverage if he'd provided details of the people traffickers he worked for?
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He was probably interested in the case because a) he appears to have frequented Portugal at the time and b) information on a world famous case like this would certainly give in the most leverage with law enforcement.
Can you truly in your heart of hearts describe an individual who...
Burglarised houses.
Kept the details of two rapes secret, potentially endangering more women.
Kept secret the confession of his friend that he had kidnapped Madeleine for 9 years, potentially putting more children at risk.
Trafficked individuals potentially to feed the sex and forced labour markets
Attacked a homeless person.
a reliable witness?
Of course this is only the crimes that we’re aware of.
Imagine if he’d gone to the police when Brueckner allegedly confessed to him how many years of suffering he would have spared Madeleine’s parents.
It really is beyond me how anyone, let alone law enforcement, can believe a word this degenerate says.
Try not to get too emotional about it. Clearly the police investigating his claims are treating him as a credible witness whether you approve or not.
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Wouldn't he have held more leverage if he'd provided details of the people traffickers he worked for?
I wasn’t aware he worked for anyone.
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"It really is beyond me how anyone, let alone law enforcement, can believe a word this degenerate says."
They don't have a lot of choice.
Very true. Looks like any port in a storm.
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From the same Greek poster on Websleuths who provided the above translations
“I think I solved the mystery of HB getting out of prison so early. In 2015 new laws were introduced in Greece that enabled prisoners to be released earlier, as part of Article 12 "Emergency measures to decongest detention facilities"
" Prisoners who at the time of publication of this law serve a custodial sentence shall be released by order of the public prosecutor of the place of sentencing, as follows: a) if their sentence lasts up to three years, if they have in any way served one tenth of it, .... c) if Their imprisonment lasts for more than five years, provided that they have in any way served one-fifth of it."
The article also postulates that the public prosecutor decides on further restraining orders upon their release (as we saw with HB”
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Some women like Ugly men.
A description of Brückner from Bild in August last year
The man is described as follows: His face is pockmarked, he has smokers' teeth and chewed fingernails, scars on his right leg (thigh and hip), moles all over his body. Christian B. has blond, full hair, is 1.82 meters tall and slender. He speaks with the Franconian dialect and can speak Portuguese.
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=https://www.bild.de/news/inland/news-inland/fall-maddie-christian-b-missbrauchte-tochter-5-seiner-ex-freundin-72411236.bild.html&prev=search&pto=aue
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A description of Brückner from Bild in August last year
The man is described as follows: His face is pockmarked, he has smokers' teeth and chewed fingernails, scars on his right leg (thigh and hip), moles all over his body. Christian B. has blond, full hair, is 1.82 meters tall and slender. He speaks with the Franconian dialect and can speak Portuguese.
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=https://www.bild.de/news/inland/news-inland/fall-maddie-christian-b-missbrauchte-tochter-5-seiner-ex-freundin-72411236.bild.html&prev=search&pto=aue
I’m wondering if the scarring on his thigh / hip might have been the mark referred to by the woman who was raped in Portugal (Hazel?)
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In part 3 of the Discovery documentary Seyforth is asked if Busching might have had reward money in mind when he contacted Op Grange in 2017. His reply was that it wouldn't surprise him, as "he would sell his mother for money". (9:04)
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In part 3 of the Discovery documentary Seyforth is asked if Busching might have had reward money in mind when he contacted Op Grange in 2017. His reply was that it wouldn't surprise him, as "he would sell his mother for money". (9:04)
It depends what other evidence Wolters has. I thought he came over quite confident in the documentary
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In part 3 of the Discovery documentary Seyforth is asked if Busching might have had reward money in mind when he contacted Op Grange in 2017. His reply was that it wouldn't surprise him, as "he would sell his mother for money". (9:04)
You know when cops put up a reward for information that the reward isn't a pat on the head right?
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In part 3 of the Discovery documentary Seyforth is asked if Busching might have had reward money in mind when he contacted Op Grange in 2017. His reply was that it wouldn't surprise him, as "he would sell his mother for money". (9:04)
Do you think the Police were not aware that he was getting paid for his information and that the public would learn of that? The information must be helpful to the Police or they wouldn't be using him as a witness. He had his information whether he was paid to give it or not, it doesn't mean he wasn't genuine.
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I think he knows more than what we have heard, maybe he told more to the Police.
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Do you think the Police were not aware that he was getting paid for his information and that the public would learn of that? The information must be helpful to the Police or they wouldn't be using him as a witness. He had his information whether he was paid to give it or not, it doesn't mean he wasn't genuine.
It sows doubt though and if Wolter wants a cast iron case that’s not the way to go about it
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It sows doubt though and if Wolter wants a cast iron case that’s not the way to go about it
I think you misunderstand. the informant is the intelligence...it tells Wolters where to look for evidence...like the dog alerts
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I think it's unlikely the Portuguese searched some Wells at random... Germany may well have intelligence and Wolters delay could be he thinks he may be able to locate a body
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I think it's unlikely the Portuguese searched some Wells at random... Germany may well have intelligence and Wolters delay could be he thinks he may be able to locate a body
The search won't have been Random, albeit possibly without result. There are so many Wells.
I see no purpose in continuing to the rubbish the Investigation by The PJ, although I have no idea of what they think they may be doing, beyond the fact that they can't refuse.
In retrospect it is all awful that a child should have been so lightly discarded.
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The search won't have been Random, albeit possibly without result. There are so many Wells.
I see no purpose in continuing to the rubbish the Investigation by The PJ, although I have no idea of what they think they may be doing, beyond the fact that they can't refuse.
In retrospect it is all awful that a child should have been so lightly discarded.
I don't think Madeleine's case was ever going to be solved without input from people who were likely to know the perpetrator/s or had their own suspicions.
That could only have come from associates or fellow criminals ~ I think that is what we have seen happening.
Just as I think that recently the German investigators and those from Portugal collaborated on the search of the wells and the particular locations of the wells chosen.
I think the investigation is very advanced now as one fact is fitted to another, but I think the foundation blocks for that stem from the initial evidence collected by the Policia Judiciaria regarding the Luz phone traffic around and on the night Madeleine vanished.
Lions led by donkeys springs to mind.
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The search won't have been Random, albeit possibly without result. There are so many Wells.
I see no purpose in continuing to the rubbish the Investigation by The PJ, although I have no idea of what they think they may be doing, beyond the fact that they can't refuse.
In retrospect it is all awful that a child should have been so lightly discarded.
Do you think the 2013 searches & digs by SY (that yielded empty crisp packets & coke cans) were as a result of some specific information or were they just stabbing in the dark?
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Do you think the 2013 searches & digs by SY (that yielded empty crisp packets & coke cans) were as a result of some specific information or were they just stabbing in the dark?
No doubt information. They wouldn't have just dug randomly would they?
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No doubt information. They wouldn't have just dug randomly would they?
Wasn't it just that this site was in the local area and hadn't been previously searched
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Wasn't it just that this site was in the local area and hadn't been previously searched
This is why they searched there -
The site has reportedly been selected because it is in the direction of the spot where a suspect was seen walking with a little girl in his arms the night of Madeleine’s disappearance.
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I think you misunderstand. the informant is the intelligence...it tells Wolters where to look for evidence...like the dog alerts
You have no idea if that is true or not.
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This is why they searched there -
The site has reportedly been selected because it is in the direction of the spot where a suspect was seen walking with a little girl in his arms the night of Madeleine’s disappearance.
So stabbing in the dark then really.
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Deleted
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So stabbing in the dark then really.
How is that stabbing in the dark?
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How is that stabbing in the dark?
Scotland Yard Investigation Room 2013....
Detective 1)........ "6 years ago a man with a child was seen walking in this direction"
Detective 2)......"Well, then he must have murdered her & then buried her somewhere over there then"
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It sows doubt though and if Wolter wants a cast iron case that’s not the way to go about it
He knew CB there's no doubt about that, he can shed light on his thinking, his personality.
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Scotland Yard Investigation Room 2013....
Detective 1)........ "6 years ago a man with a child was seen walking in this direction"
Detective 2)......"Well, then he must have murdered her & then buried her somewhere over there then"
You don't know what motivated them, something did.
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Scotland Yard Investigation Room 2013....
Detective 1)........ "6 years ago a man with a child was seen walking in this direction"
Detective 2)......"Well, then he must have murdered her & then buried her somewhere over there then"
Maybe this made them investigate that area -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/488487/EXCLUSIVE-Potential-key-witness-McCann-case
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You don't know what motivated them, something did.
I guess we'll find out when our honest & open police force makes the case files public.
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Maybe this made them investigate that area -
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/488487/EXCLUSIVE-Potential-key-witness-McCann-case
The real evidence is quite clear, Maddie was abducted by a French/English couple who took her shopping for party gifts in Amsterdam.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/06/madeleinemccann.internationalcrime1
Either that or some people talk total bollocks to the police.
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The real evidence is quite clear, Maddie was abducted by a French/English couple who took her shopping for party gifts in Amsterdam.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/06/madeleinemccann.internationalcrime1
Either that or some people talk total bollocks to the police.
Like Martin Smith you mean?
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He knew CB there's no doubt about that, he can shed light on his thinking, his personality.
It doesn’t appear as if it was that type of relationship. Seyferth claims that he didn’t know about Brueckner’s abuse of children. I can’t see that Busching would be any different.
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Like Martin Smith you mean?
Yes, exactly, & the rest of his family who hallucinated.
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Yes, exactly, & the rest of his family who hallucinated.
I think it was only Smith who claimed it was Gerry in a police statement, so I don’t think the whole family hallucinated that.
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You don't know what motivated them, something did.
It wasn't questioning, that came after.
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It doesn’t appear as if it was that type of relationship. Seyferth claims that he didn’t know about Brueckner’s abuse of children. I can’t see that Busching would be any different.
It is not unknown for preps to blame others for their crimes. Perhaps this was the case, he is just as evil anyway ew.
Must be some physical evidence Busching can offer up? pictures under a dead dog?