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Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: ferryman on April 13, 2013, 06:12:29 PM
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Correspondence between Amaral and the Portuguese forensic laboratory again ...
There is an anomaly with the dates, but that's not the point of principal interest.
Subject: Sending of Pyjamas
The present inquiry investigates the disappearance of Madeleine McCann on 3rd May 2007. I am herewith delivering to the Police Scientific Laboratory a pair of girl's pyjamas.
The Pyjamas are from Marks and Spencers, size 2 to 3 years -97 cm.
The pyjamas are composed of two pieces: camisole type without buttons and half sleeves, pink with designs, letters and tracing in white with (small) floral patterns, the right pyjama bottom leg has a design (smaller size) which is identical to that of the camisole.
The pyjamas being sent are 'equal' in make, model, size, colours and designs as well as presumably the texture, to those the little girl was wearing at the time of her disappearance. The article sent serves for eventual comparisons with fibres collected by the competent officers of the Police Scientific Lab, within the scope of the current investigation.
With compliments
Signed
The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation
Goncalo Amaral
And the bewiildered response:
1723 to 1725 Letter 15 March 2007 from LPC to PJ Portimao asking what should be done with the pyjamas there having been no fibres collected during the Inquiry
07 Processos Vol VII Page 1723 to 1725
07_VOLUME_VI1a_Page_1723
Letter
To: The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation
Date: 2007/03/15 (sic)
Ref: NUIPC 201/07 GALGS
Your communication: 2007/06/05
Ref no. 15971 Reg Correspondence 6429/07
Subject: Information
With reference to the abovementioned letter and in compliance with the despatch, we request you to provide us with information with regard to what should be done with the material sent, given that in this Scientific Police Laboratory there are no fibres that have been collected within the scope of the investigation mentioned above.
With compliments.
This is the man who, apparently, contradicted Prior on interpretation of the forensic results, then sent him away with a flea in his ear to berate the FSS on the subject of the PJ's powers of arrest ...
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It's the same old mantra... discredit, discredit, discredit. If only if wasn't for that meddling Amaral, we would have gotten away with it!
It seems clear to me that Amaral is sending the PJs in order to provide a comparative match to any fibres that have been recovered. Maybe fibres were recovered? Maybe he just sent the PJs to the wrong lab?
What's the issue with Amaral's grasp of forensics? What has Amaral got to do with what the McCanns and their friends did? He just happens to be the one investigating. It suits you to try and portray him as a bungling fool. Many don't hold the same opinion.
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BWahahaha
Another home goal for Gonc @)(++(*
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BWahahaha
Another home goal for Gonc @)(++(*
It's "own goal".
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The pyjamas being sent are 'equal' in make, model, size, colours and designs as well as presumably the texture, to those the little girl was wearing at the time of her disappearance. The article sent serves for eventual comparisons with fibres collected by the competent officers of the Police Scientific Lab, within the scope of the current investigation.
Really?
So Amaral is saying, they have fibres from Madeleine's pyjamas. So where and how, did they aquire these fibres?
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The pyjamas being sent are 'equal' in make, model, size, colours and designs as well as presumably the texture, to those the little girl was wearing at the time of her disappearance. The article sent serves for eventual comparisons with fibres collected by the competent officers of the Police Scientific Lab, within the scope of the current investigation.
Really?
So Amaral is saying, they have fibres from Madeleine's pyjamas. So where and how, did they aquire these fibres?
Well you'd think that maybe they'd be in the bed she slept in, wouldn't you? Along with maybe some other trace of a girls who'd supposedly been in the apartment for 5 days. Therefore rendering a trip back to Rothley to get a pillowcase unnecessary.
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It's the same old mantra... discredit, discredit, discredit. If only if wasn't for that meddling Amaral, we would have gotten away with it!
It seems clear to me that Amaral is sending the PJs in order to provide a comparative match to any fibres that have been recovered. Maybe fibres were recovered? Maybe he just sent the PJs to the wrong lab?
What's the issue with Amaral's grasp of forensics? What has Amaral got to do with what the McCanns and their friends did? He just happens to be the one investigating. It suits you to try and portray him as a bungling fool. Many don't hold the same opinion.
Goncalo Amaral may not be a bungling fool, C Edwards, but he has been proven to be dishonest on more than one occasion. So there are many who do not believe a word he says.
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The pyjamas being sent are 'equal' in make, model, size, colours and designs as well as presumably the texture, to those the little girl was wearing at the time of her disappearance. The article sent serves for eventual comparisons with fibres collected by the competent officers of the Police Scientific Lab, within the scope of the current investigation.
Really?
So Amaral is saying, they have fibres from Madeleine's pyjamas. So where and how, did they aquire these fibres?
Well you'd think that maybe they'd be in the bed she slept in, wouldn't you? Along with maybe some other trace of a girls who'd supposedly been in the apartment for 5 days. Therefore rendering a trip back to Rothley to get a pillowcase unnecessary.
But, they didn't do forensics on the bedding, except one small square from the bed under the window. That turned out to be saliva, from a little boy who had stayed there. Which Amaral was convinced was, semen.
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It's the same old mantra... discredit, discredit, discredit. If only if wasn't for that meddling Amaral, we would have gotten away with it!
It seems clear to me that Amaral is sending the PJs in order to provide a comparative match to any fibres that have been recovered. Maybe fibres were recovered? Maybe he just sent the PJs to the wrong lab?
What's the issue with Amaral's grasp of forensics? What has Amaral got to do with what the McCanns and their friends did? He just happens to be the one investigating. It suits you to try and portray him as a bungling fool. Many don't hold the same opinion.
Goncalo Amaral may not be a bungling fool, C Edwards, but he has been proven to be dishonest on more than one occasion. So there are many who do not believe a word he says.
And there are many within the Portuguese legal establishment that hold him in high regard, inconvenient as this may be to Team McCann.
The McCanns have been shown to be dishonest on numerous occasions (see article posted in other thread highlighting Kate's lies from her book)
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The pyjamas being sent are 'equal' in make, model, size, colours and designs as well as presumably the texture, to those the little girl was wearing at the time of her disappearance. The article sent serves for eventual comparisons with fibres collected by the competent officers of the Police Scientific Lab, within the scope of the current investigation.
Really?
So Amaral is saying, they have fibres from Madeleine's pyjamas. So where and how, did they aquire these fibres?
Well you'd think that maybe they'd be in the bed she slept in, wouldn't you? Along with maybe some other trace of a girls who'd supposedly been in the apartment for 5 days. Therefore rendering a trip back to Rothley to get a pillowcase unnecessary.
But, they didn't do forensics on the bedding, except one small square from the bed under the window. That turned out to be saliva, from a little boy who had stayed there. Which Amaral was convinced was, semen.
You'll have the evidence to back that up then?
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And there are many within the Portuguese legal establishment that hold him in high regard @)(++(*
Is that why his wife, complained nobody from the PJ said bye, bye?
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It's the same old mantra... discredit, discredit, discredit. If only if wasn't for that meddling Amaral, we would have gotten away with it!
It seems clear to me that Amaral is sending the PJs in order to provide a comparative match to any fibres that have been recovered. Maybe fibres were recovered? Maybe he just sent the PJs to the wrong lab?
What's the issue with Amaral's grasp of forensics? What has Amaral got to do with what the McCanns and their friends did? He just happens to be the one investigating. It suits you to try and portray him as a bungling fool. Many don't hold the same opinion.
Goncalo Amaral may not be a bungling fool, C Edwards, but he has been proven to be dishonest on more than one occasion. So there are many who do not believe a word he says.
And there are many within the Portuguese legal establishment that hold him in high regard, inconvenient as this may be to Team McCann.
The McCanns have been shown to be dishonest on numerous occasions (see article posted in other thread highlighting Kate's lies from her book)
Hi C Edwards. Even if he was held in high regard by the Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, George Bush and Nelson Mandela it does not alter the fact that he has been proven to be a dishonest liar. And that is not very good for a co-ordinator in a missing child case. I believe Amnesty International have taken an interest in the Cipriano case.
I will look into the other thread about Kate McCann's alleged lies in her book.
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It's the same old mantra... discredit, discredit, discredit.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this what you and the other McCann "sceptics" spend a considerable amount of your spare time doing to the parents of a missing child? Why is it OK to discredit the McCanns, their friends and family and supporters but not ok to discredit a man with a suspended jail sentence for dishonesty? Please explain.
Smashing post, Martha! 8@??)(
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The pyjamas being sent are 'equal' in make, model, size, colours and designs as well as presumably the texture, to those the little girl was wearing at the time of her disappearance. The article sent serves for eventual comparisons with fibres collected by the competent officers of the Police Scientific Lab, within the scope of the current investigation.
Really?
So Amaral is saying, they have fibres from Madeleine's pyjamas. So where and how, did they aquire these fibres?
Well you'd think that maybe they'd be in the bed she slept in, wouldn't you? Along with maybe some other trace of a girls who'd supposedly been in the apartment for 5 days. Therefore rendering a trip back to Rothley to get a pillowcase unnecessary.
But, they didn't do forensics on the bedding, except one small square from the bed under the window. That turned out to be saliva, from a little boy who had stayed there. Which Amaral was convinced was, semen.
You'll have the evidence to back that up then?
1723 to 1725 Letter 15 March 2007 from LPC to PJ Portimao asking what should be done with the pyjamas there having been no fibres collected during the Inquiry
07 Processos Vol VII Page 1723 to 1725
07_VOLUME_VI1a_Page_1723
Letter
To: The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation
Date: 2007/03/15 (sic)
Ref: NUIPC 201/07 GALGS
Your communication: 2007/06/05
Ref no. 15971 Reg Correspondence 6429/07
Subject: Information
With reference to the abovementioned letter and in compliance with the despatch, we request you to provide us with information with regard to what should be done with the material sent, given that in this Scientific Police Laboratory there are no fibres that have been collected within the scope of the investigation mentioned above.
With compliments.
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"in this laboratory" you missed out.
I meant the saliva/semen thing.
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"in this laboratory" you missed out.
I meant the saliva/semen thing.
Traces of semen
On one of the beds in the room of the McCann couple, a residue was collected that initially was thought to be of semen. It turned out to be saliva and matched another child that had been in the apartment before.
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Did anyone in that initial PJ team understand forensics? If so, who?
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The pyjamas being sent are 'equal' in make, model, size, colours and designs as well as presumably the texture, to those the little girl was wearing at the time of her disappearance. The article sent serves for eventual comparisons with fibres collected by the competent officers of the Police Scientific Lab, within the scope of the current investigation.
Really?
So Amaral is saying, they have fibres from Madeleine's pyjamas. So where and how, did they aquire these fibres?
Well you'd think that maybe they'd be in the bed she slept in, wouldn't you? Along with maybe some other trace of a girls who'd supposedly been in the apartment for 5 days. Therefore rendering a trip back to Rothley to get a pillowcase unnecessary.
Do you not actually see that in your post C.Edwards you are completely discrediting the work of the PJ and Amaral the co-ordinator of that work?
It was the PJ who failed to collect samples from the bed. It was Amaral who was coordinating the PJ at that time. When a police force fails so badly to collect such potential vital evidence in a missing child case then I think it is fair to point out their failure and to call it disgraceful work.
It was also the PJ who in one of the most strange twists of the case accepted the pillow case brought by Gerry McCann back from Rothley as evidence. Having failed to find any DNA (Were their techniques simply not up to the task? Were they as bad as the fingerprinting techniques which Amaral himself says were not the best?) they should then have liaised with Leicester Police for a reference DNA sample from the house and should never have simply accepted a sample via the father of the missing child. Such incredible stupidity on the part of the PJ was the responsibility of Goncalo Amaral who was co-ordinating the PJ team who allowed it.
There can be no excuse for such appalling failures in the work of the police in a missing child case. This isn't simply a matter of discrediting Amaral and his team but is actually proving that they were totally incompetent.
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Has anyone worked out what happened to the hair on her bed?
The markers would appear to indicate hair. I count 10 of them.
(http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P9/09_VOLUME_IXa_Page_2316.jpg)
The delivery slip doesn't specify how many.
(http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P9/09_VOLUME_IXa_Page_2323.jpg)
From the INML receipt page, there were only 4 hairs from the bed in envelope no. 3. What happened to the others?
(http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P9/09_VOLUME_IXa_Page_2427.jpg)
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It was also the PJ who in one of the most strange twists of the case accepted the pillow case brought by Gerry McCann back from Rothley as evidence. Having failed to find any DNA (Were their techniques simply not up to the task? Were they as bad as the fingerprinting techniques which Amaral himself says were not the best?) they should then have liaised with Leicester Police for a reference DNA sample from the house and should never have simply accepted a sample via the father of the missing child. Such incredible stupidity on the part of the PJ was the responsibility of Goncalo Amaral who was co-ordinating the PJ team who allowed it.
There can be no excuse for such appalling failures in the work of the police in a missing child case. This isn't simply a matter of discrediting Amaral and his team but is actually proving that they were totally incompetent.
But that is exactly what happened.
The pillowcase from the house in Rothley was not given to the Portuguese, but to the Forensic Science Service in the UK from which a DNA reference sample was obtained and which was later confirmed as Madeleine Mccann's. Nothing to do with police incompetency here.
You can read it here in the third and fourth entries.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm
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So far, no one has an explanation as to what happened to the missing hairs from Madeleine's bed...
The only explanation that I can think of is that there may have been an intention of 2 envelopes (3a and 3b), 3a being the 4 that were actually received and 3b (with the other 6 hairs) got lost somewhere in the chain of custody.
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So far, no one has an explanation as to what happened to the missing hairs from Madeleine's bed...
The only explanation that I can think of is that there may have been an intention of 2 envelopes (3a and 3b), 3a being the 4 that were actually received and 3b (with the other 6 hairs) got lost somewhere in the chain of custody.
The number of hairs taken off the bed is not mentioned. I think the number 4 refers go the vestige number, it is a reference number, not the number of hairs. This is just my opinion and how I read it.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PORTUGUESE-FORENSIC.htm
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So far, no one has an explanation as to what happened to the missing hairs from Madeleine's bed...
The only explanation that I can think of is that there may have been an intention of 2 envelopes (3a and 3b), 3a being the 4 that were actually received and 3b (with the other 6 hairs) got lost somewhere in the chain of custody.
The number of hairs taken off the bed is not mentioned. I think the number 4 refers go the vestige number, it is a reference number, not the number of hairs. This is just my opinion and how I read it.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PORTUGUESE-FORENSIC.htm
That wouldn't seem to be the case as No.4 (marker number) was from the floor:
- various hairs from the floor area next to the bed opposite to the bed from which the sleeping child disappeared, they being placed inside a paper envelope in accordance with instructions issued by the Biology Section of the LPC and referenced as trace evidence #4.
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Carana, it can be confusing. The markers refer to the yellow forensics cards. The vestige collection has a different numbering.
Various hairs were collected from on top of the bed in the bedroom, they were placed in a paper envelope, according to the instructions of the Scientific Police Laboratory's Biology Area and were referenced as vestige no. 4.
Date of Delivery: 29th May 2007
Destination: Biology Area of the Scientific Police Laboratory
Forensic Examination no.: 200707356-CR/L
NUIPC: 201/07.0 GALGS
Date and Time of Collection: 05.22.00 May 07
Place of Collection: Aparthotel Sol e Mar, 2nd floor, Apartment C, Burgau
Scope: Disappearance of Girl
Requested by: Chief Inspector Tavares de Almeida, Portimao DIC.
Vestiges Delivered:
No. Description
1A Cotton swab containing haematic vestiges collected from the kitchen cupboard door.
IB Various hairs collected from the kitchen floor.
2 Various hairs collected from the entrance corridor
3 Various hairs collected from the bedroom floor
4 Various hairs collected from the bed in the bedroom.
5 Various hairs collected from the bathroom.
6 Various hairs collected from the living room floor.
7 Various hairs collected from a sofa in the living room.
8 Various hairs collected from a sofa in the living room.
Lisbon 29th May 2007
Signed: delivery and receipt.
JMO.
But
Date and Time of Collection: 05.22.00 May 07
Place of Collection: Aparthotel Sol e Mar, 2nd floor, Apartment C, Burgau
We're talking about her bed in 5a, PdL. I posted the photos further up.
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Carana, I have removed my post. I'm sorry, I was reading the wrong pages.
8()-000(
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Carana, I have removed my post. I'm sorry, I was reading the wrong pages.
8()-000(
Yes, but I can see where the confusion came from. No worries.
But I still don't understand what happened to the hairs from her bed.
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I find it sad that no one seems to be really interested in the hairs on her bed nor in identifying whose hairs they may have been.
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It was also the PJ who in one of the most strange twists of the case accepted the pillow case brought by Gerry McCann back from Rothley as evidence. Having failed to find any DNA (Were their techniques simply not up to the task? Were they as bad as the fingerprinting techniques which Amaral himself says were not the best?) they should then have liaised with Leicester Police for a reference DNA sample from the house and should never have simply accepted a sample via the father of the missing child. Such incredible stupidity on the part of the PJ was the responsibility of Goncalo Amaral who was co-ordinating the PJ team who allowed it.
There can be no excuse for such appalling failures in the work of the police in a missing child case. This isn't simply a matter of discrediting Amaral and his team but is actually proving that they were totally incompetent.
But that is exactly what happened.
The pillowcase from the house in Rothley was not given to the Portuguese, but to the Forensic Science Service in the UK from which a DNA reference sample was obtained and which was later confirmed as Madeleine Mccann's. Nothing to do with police incompetency here.
You can read it here in the third and fourth entries.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm
Whether the pillowcase was carried to PT by Gerry McCann (as I have mistakenly claimed) or whether it was sent directly by LP to the FSS after Gerry's visit to Rothley my point remains that any involvement by him in the matter was incompetency on the part of the PJ. They were investigating a missing child and should have obtained a DNA sample far earlier than 22 May.
If, as seems likely, they bungled the forensics of the Apt 5A bedding etc by allowing the cleaners to remove it on 4th May for washing then they should have immediately liaised with LP rather than waiting for Gerry to go home.
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This from 4th May 2007 from Mccannfiles.
TRANSLATION BY ALBYM
Not checked against original CD's yet.
After the examination of the inside of the apartment and despite the immediate surroundings of the referred apartment not having been preserved [protected] there proceeded the detailed observation of the exterior there not having been detected the existence of any objects/traces of forensic value and [nor] of any traces of shoe-prints in the garden area of the apartment.
The recovery of cigarette stubs was not viable due to the existence of a reasonable quantity thereof within the referred perimeter.
[Note: I think the writer meant to say 'due to the non-existence of'.]
I cannot believe the incompetence, too many cigarette stubs, to analyze???
And how come, months later, Grime found existence of objects/traces of forensic value?
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Correspondence between Amaral and the Portuguese forensic laboratory again ...
There is an anomaly with the dates, but that's not the point of principal interest.
Subject: Sending of Pyjamas
The present inquiry investigates the disappearance of Madeleine McCann on 3rd May 2007. I am herewith delivering to the Police Scientific Laboratory a pair of girl's pyjamas.
The Pyjamas are from Marks and Spencers, size 2 to 3 years -97 cm.
The pyjamas are composed of two pieces: camisole type without buttons and half sleeves, pink with designs, letters and tracing in white with (small) floral patterns, the right pyjama bottom leg has a design (smaller size) which is identical to that of the camisole.
The pyjamas being sent are 'equal' in make, model, size, colours and designs as well as presumably the texture, to those the little girl was wearing at the time of her disappearance. The article sent serves for eventual comparisons with fibres collected by the competent officers of the Police Scientific Lab, within the scope of the current investigation.
With compliments
Signed
The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation
Goncalo Amaral
And the bewiildered response:
1723 to 1725 Letter 15 March 2007 from LPC to PJ Portimao asking what should be done with the pyjamas there having been no fibres collected during the Inquiry
07 Processos Vol VII Page 1723 to 1725
07_VOLUME_VI1a_Page_1723
Letter
To: The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation
Date: 2007/03/15 (sic)
Ref: NUIPC 201/07 GALGS
Your communication: 2007/06/05
Ref no. 15971 Reg Correspondence 6429/07
Subject: Information
With reference to the abovementioned letter and in compliance with the despatch, we request you to provide us with information with regard to what should be done with the material sent, given that in this Scientific Police Laboratory there are no fibres that have been collected within the scope of the investigation mentioned above.
With compliments.
This is the man who, apparently, contradicted Prior on interpretation of the forensic results, then sent him away with a flea in his ear to berate the FSS on the subject of the PJ's powers of arrest ...
As a matter of fact it was Stuart Prior that irritated with the incongruences from the Lab, told them by phone that "with less than that I've sent people to prison".
What that shows is that the Laboratory was in fact a mess. They had received an amount of samples and that was just another to be taken with the others in order to be analized. They are supposed to be scientists not clowns to go with the pijamas to a children's party.
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Correspondence between Amaral and the Portuguese forensic laboratory again ...
There is an anomaly with the dates, but that's not the point of principal interest.
Subject: Sending of Pyjamas
The present inquiry investigates the disappearance of Madeleine McCann on 3rd May 2007. I am herewith delivering to the Police Scientific Laboratory a pair of girl's pyjamas.
The Pyjamas are from Marks and Spencers, size 2 to 3 years -97 cm.
The pyjamas are composed of two pieces: camisole type without buttons and half sleeves, pink with designs, letters and tracing in white with (small) floral patterns, the right pyjama bottom leg has a design (smaller size) which is identical to that of the camisole.
The pyjamas being sent are 'equal' in make, model, size, colours and designs as well as presumably the texture, to those the little girl was wearing at the time of her disappearance. The article sent serves for eventual comparisons with fibres collected by the competent officers of the Police Scientific Lab, within the scope of the current investigation.
With compliments
Signed
The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation
Goncalo Amaral
And the bewiildered response:
1723 to 1725 Letter 15 March 2007 from LPC to PJ Portimao asking what should be done with the pyjamas there having been no fibres collected during the Inquiry
07 Processos Vol VII Page 1723 to 1725
07_VOLUME_VI1a_Page_1723
Letter
To: The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation
Date: 2007/03/15 (sic)
Ref: NUIPC 201/07 GALGS
Your communication: 2007/06/05
Ref no. 15971 Reg Correspondence 6429/07
Subject: Information
With reference to the abovementioned letter and in compliance with the despatch, we request you to provide us with information with regard to what should be done with the material sent, given that in this Scientific Police Laboratory there are no fibres that have been collected within the scope of the investigation mentioned above.
With compliments.
This is the man who, apparently, contradicted Prior on interpretation of the forensic results, then sent him away with a flea in his ear to berate the FSS on the subject of the PJ's powers of arrest ...
As a matter of fact it was Stuart Prior that irritated with the incongruences from the Lab, told them by phone that "with less than that I've sent people to prison".
What that shows is that the Laboratory was in fact a mess. They had received an amount of samples and that was just another to be taken with the others in order to be analized. They are supposed to be scientists not clowns to go with the pijamas to a children's party.
Do you know the source of the claim?
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Correspondence between Amaral and the Portuguese forensic laboratory again ...
There is an anomaly with the dates, but that's not the point of principal interest.
Subject: Sending of Pyjamas
The present inquiry investigates the disappearance of Madeleine McCann on 3rd May 2007. I am herewith delivering to the Police Scientific Laboratory a pair of girl's pyjamas.
The Pyjamas are from Marks and Spencers, size 2 to 3 years -97 cm.
The pyjamas are composed of two pieces: camisole type without buttons and half sleeves, pink with designs, letters and tracing in white with (small) floral patterns, the right pyjama bottom leg has a design (smaller size) which is identical to that of the camisole.
The pyjamas being sent are 'equal' in make, model, size, colours and designs as well as presumably the texture, to those the little girl was wearing at the time of her disappearance. The article sent serves for eventual comparisons with fibres collected by the competent officers of the Police Scientific Lab, within the scope of the current investigation.
With compliments
Signed
The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation
Goncalo Amaral
And the bewiildered response:
1723 to 1725 Letter 15 March 2007 from LPC to PJ Portimao asking what should be done with the pyjamas there having been no fibres collected during the Inquiry
07 Processos Vol VII Page 1723 to 1725
07_VOLUME_VI1a_Page_1723
Letter
To: The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation
Date: 2007/03/15 (sic)
Ref: NUIPC 201/07 GALGS
Your communication: 2007/06/05
Ref no. 15971 Reg Correspondence 6429/07
Subject: Information
With reference to the abovementioned letter and in compliance with the despatch, we request you to provide us with information with regard to what should be done with the material sent, given that in this Scientific Police Laboratory there are no fibres that have been collected within the scope of the investigation mentioned above.
With compliments.
This is the man who, apparently, contradicted Prior on interpretation of the forensic results, then sent him away with a flea in his ear to berate the FSS on the subject of the PJ's powers of arrest ...
As a matter of fact it was Stuart Prior that irritated with the incongruences from the Lab, told them by phone that "with less than that I've sent people to prison".
What that shows is that the Laboratory was in fact a mess. They had received an amount of samples and that was just another to be taken with the others in order to be analized. They are supposed to be scientists not clowns to go with the pijamas to a children's party.
So glad it was you who castigated the people at the Portuguese LPC as "clowns to go with the pijamas to a children's party" because if it was me I might have been accused of prejudice.
However it wasn't the scientists at the LPC in this case who were acting stupidly was it? It was Amaral who signed off the letter accompanying the pyjamas which no matter how much of a likeness he believed they might be to what Madeleine might have been wearing were actually useless because he hadn't understood the need for reference fibres.
And people are surprised that his handling of the case is referred to in less than complementary terms. After examples of Amaral's behaviour like this one, what can they truly expect?
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Correspondence between Amaral and the Portuguese forensic laboratory again ...
There is an anomaly with the dates, but that's not the point of principal interest.
Subject: Sending of Pyjamas
The present inquiry investigates the disappearance of Madeleine McCann on 3rd May 2007. I am herewith delivering to the Police Scientific Laboratory a pair of girl's pyjamas.
The Pyjamas are from Marks and Spencers, size 2 to 3 years -97 cm.
The pyjamas are composed of two pieces: camisole type without buttons and half sleeves, pink with designs, letters and tracing in white with (small) floral patterns, the right pyjama bottom leg has a design (smaller size) which is identical to that of the camisole.
The pyjamas being sent are 'equal' in make, model, size, colours and designs as well as presumably the texture, to those the little girl was wearing at the time of her disappearance. The article sent serves for eventual comparisons with fibres collected by the competent officers of the Police Scientific Lab, within the scope of the current investigation.
With compliments
Signed
The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation
Goncalo Amaral
And the bewiildered response:
1723 to 1725 Letter 15 March 2007 from LPC to PJ Portimao asking what should be done with the pyjamas there having been no fibres collected during the Inquiry
07 Processos Vol VII Page 1723 to 1725
07_VOLUME_VI1a_Page_1723
Letter
To: The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation
Date: 2007/03/15 (sic)
Ref: NUIPC 201/07 GALGS
Your communication: 2007/06/05
Ref no. 15971 Reg Correspondence 6429/07
Subject: Information
With reference to the abovementioned letter and in compliance with the despatch, we request you to provide us with information with regard to what should be done with the material sent, given that in this Scientific Police Laboratory there are no fibres that have been collected within the scope of the investigation mentioned above.
With compliments.
This is the man who, apparently, contradicted Prior on interpretation of the forensic results, then sent him away with a flea in his ear to berate the FSS on the subject of the PJ's powers of arrest ...
As a matter of fact it was Stuart Prior that irritated with the incongruences from the Lab, told them by phone that "with less than that I've sent people to prison".
What that shows is that the Laboratory was in fact a mess. They had received an amount of samples and that was just another to be taken with the others in order to be analized. They are supposed to be scientists not clowns to go with the pijamas to a children's party.
Yes, I do. It is in the book of Mr. Amaral, but very long before that I had that information from another person that was present at the room where that occurred.
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For me, it stretches credulity past breaking point to suppose that Amaral contradicted Prior on the forensic results, then ordered him to ring the FSS as, apparently, described in Amaral's book
Amaral is not fluent in English, is he? How did he follow the gist of the conversation?
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Correspondence between Amaral and the Portuguese forensic laboratory again ...
There is an anomaly with the dates, but that's not the point of principal interest.
Subject: Sending of Pyjamas
The present inquiry investigates the disappearance of Madeleine McCann on 3rd May 2007. I am herewith delivering to the Police Scientific Laboratory a pair of girl's pyjamas.
The Pyjamas are from Marks and Spencers, size 2 to 3 years -97 cm.
The pyjamas are composed of two pieces: camisole type without buttons and half sleeves, pink with designs, letters and tracing in white with (small) floral patterns, the right pyjama bottom leg has a design (smaller size) which is identical to that of the camisole.
The pyjamas being sent are 'equal' in make, model, size, colours and designs as well as presumably the texture, to those the little girl was wearing at the time of her disappearance. The article sent serves for eventual comparisons with fibres collected by the competent officers of the Police Scientific Lab, within the scope of the current investigation.
With compliments
Signed
The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation
Goncalo Amaral
And the bewiildered response:
1723 to 1725 Letter 15 March 2007 from LPC to PJ Portimao asking what should be done with the pyjamas there having been no fibres collected during the Inquiry
07 Processos Vol VII Page 1723 to 1725
07_VOLUME_VI1a_Page_1723
Letter
To: The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation
Date: 2007/03/15 (sic)
Ref: NUIPC 201/07 GALGS
Your communication: 2007/06/05
Ref no. 15971 Reg Correspondence 6429/07
Subject: Information
With reference to the abovementioned letter and in compliance with the despatch, we request you to provide us with information with regard to what should be done with the material sent, given that in this Scientific Police Laboratory there are no fibres that have been collected within the scope of the investigation mentioned above.
With compliments.
This is the man who, apparently, contradicted Prior on interpretation of the forensic results, then sent him away with a flea in his ear to berate the FSS on the subject of the PJ's powers of arrest ...
As a matter of fact it was Stuart Prior that irritated with the incongruences from the Lab, told them by phone that "with less than that I've sent people to prison".
What that shows is that the Laboratory was in fact a mess. They had received an amount of samples and that was just another to be taken with the others in order to be analized. They are supposed to be scientists not clowns to go with the pijamas to a children's party.
Yes, I do. It is in the book of Mr. Amaral, but very long before that I had that information from another person that was present at the room where that occurred.
Please provide the reference in the book or a quote. Or are you just here to make claims and provide absolutely no evidence for your claims? Forum rules here suggest you should provide evidence.
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Luz wrote:
"As a matter of fact it was Stuart Prior that irritated with the incongruences from the Lab, told them by phone that "with less than that I've sent people to prison".
What that shows is that the Laboratory was in fact a mess. They had received an amount of samples and that was just another to be taken with the others in order to be analized. They are supposed to be scientists not clowns to go with the pijamas to a children's party."
Luz - what is the actual source of that claim please?
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Here is the quote:
At a meeting in our office, with the Portuguese and the English investigation team, Stuart expresses his disappointment over the test results. This is where the saga of the FSS reports begins. We read the part of the report dealing with the traces of blood lifted from the floor of apartment 5A, from behind the sofa and in the boot of the McCanns' car
and we don’t agree with Stuart’s disappointment We talk about blood traces because the CSI dog is trained to find only that bodily fluid. The reports that support that decision are clear: the CSI dog was used to detect human blood. Low Copy Number, the technique used to determine the DNA of the samples, does not identify the nature of the bodily fluid they are derived from. But we know it's definitely traces of blood and not other bodily fluids since the CSI dog is trained to detect only human blood.
In the first case, the laboratory considers that the result of the analysis is inconclusive because the samples gathered provide very little information when the DNA comes from more than one person. But all the confirmed DNA components match with the corresponding components in Madeleine’s DNA profile!.
As for the second case, after an explanation about the DNA components in Madeleine's genetic profile, it concludes that 15 out of 19 markers in Madeleine's profile are present in the sample examined. Only 4 short of 100% reliability. The FSS specialists qualify the results as, "complex," and state that these 15 markers are not enough to conclude with certainty that it's definitely Madeleine's DNA profile, especially as Low Copy Number picked out a total of 37 in the sample. That means that at least three individuals contributed to this result.
But there was more in this first preliminary report. In the same report, the scientist went further and explained that in the profiles of many of the lab experts, elements from the DNA profile of Madeleine are present. This means that a major part of the DNA profile of any given person can be built by three donors. That is understandable. Two questions arose immediately. The first one: what good is a DNA profile in terms of criminal evidence, if it can be the combination of three or more donors? Another question was simple: why did the DNA profile from those three donors contribute to Madeleine’s DNA profile and not to that of any other person, like the scientist who carried out the test? But the surprises from the preliminary reports were not to end there.
On the very day that interrogation of the McCann couple starts, a second preliminary report reaches us. Contrary to the first report, it accords more importance to the DNA profile of the blood lifted from the floor of the apartment. In that sample, the DNA came from more than one donor, but the confirmed DNA components match the corresponding components of Madeleine's DNA profile.
As for the samples lifted from the boot of the car, there is no further mention of the 15 markers, as if they had never existed.
Suddenly, light was starting to be cast on the issue:either this LCN technique is not reliable or it's simply much easier to explain the presence of Madeleine's DNA in the apartment than in the boot of a car hired 24 days after her disappearance.
At our insistence, Stuart contacts the FSS and asks them if they think the Portuguese are idiots. We hear him saying: "With a lot less than that, we would have already arrested someone in England." I look at my colleagues and see that they are as stupified as I am. In fact, in Portugal, it's not so easy to arrest someone. We explain to Stuart that the McCanns interrogations would not result in detention. According to Portuguese law, the crimes of concealment of a corpse and simulating an abduction are not liable to remanding in custody.
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What I would love Luz to do as well as provide evidence for her claims with clear references to that evidence, is provide some kind of explanation for the crazy behaviour of Amaral who sent the pyjamas to the Portuguese lab when there was nothing they could do with them, nothing to compare them with. Surely as coordinator of the case he should have been aware of that?
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What I would love Luz to do as well as provide evidence for her claims with clear references to that evidence, is provide some kind of explanation for the crazy behaviour of Amaral who sent the pyjamas to the Portuguese lab when there was nothing they could do with them, nothing to compare them with. Surely as coordinator of the case he should have been aware of that?
After all the miserable spectacle that you gave here you want me to give you more rope to hang yourself? You are not ignorant, you are twisted mind.
Sorry mate, I'm not a circus helper.
Go be a clown on your own account.
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The people that gathered the forensic evidence were from the Scientific Police, not from the investigation team. And Dr. Amaral wasn't even on the site when the investigators arrived.
But some imbeciles would love to decimate the man. I wonder if it is because of the next Court trial that he will have facing the McCann!
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As for the samples lifted from the boot of the car, there is no further mention of the 15 markers, as if they had never existed.
Suddenly, light was starting to be cast on the issue:either this LCN technique is not reliable or it's simply much easier to explain the presence of Madeleine's DNA in the apartment than in the boot of a car hired 24 days after her disappearance.
FSS-GF-679 Emissao 2, Pagina 8
The attempt to obtain a DNA profile from any cellular material collected from the plastic area on the baggage compartment (286C/2007-CRL /10(2)) was unfruitful [fruitless, in vain, useless, unproductive, unsuccessful], because no DNA profile was obtained.
A mixed, low-level DNA result, that appeared to be from at least two persons, was obtained from a second area of the baggage compartment plastic (286C/2007-CRL /10(2)). This sample was submitted for tests to obtain DNA profiles through LCN.
A DNA result by complex LCN that appeared to be from at least three persons, was obtained from cellular material collected on the section of the baggage compartment 286C 2007 CRL10 (2) area 2. In my opinion, that result is too complex for a meaningful interpretation.
An incomplete, low-level DNA profile that matched corresponding components in the profile of Gerald McCann was obtained from cellular material present on the card key - (286C/2007-CRL (12)).My colleague, Andrew Palmer, submitted various hair collected from the Renault Scenic for tests, using ... LCN.
Those hairs were designated as 7B hair 1 and 7C hairs 7, 13 e 15. Attempts to obtain a DNA profile of each hair by LCN was unfruitful, because no DNA profile was obtained by LCN, possibly due to there being an insufficient quantity of good quality DNA.
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Whether the pillowcase was carried to PT by Gerry McCann (as I have mistakenly claimed) or whether it was sent directly by LP to the FSS after Gerry's visit to Rothley my point remains that any involvement by him in the matter was incompetency on the part of the PJ. They were investigating a missing child and should have obtained a DNA sample far earlier than 22 May.
If, as seems likely, they bungled the forensics of the Apt 5A bedding etc by allowing the cleaners to remove it on 4th May for washing then they should have immediately liaised with LP rather than waiting for Gerry to go home.
*********
Gilet, a couple of points:
- No, it is not at all likely that the cleaners took away bedding on 4th May as they were turned away from the crime scene the next day, so there was no bungling here of any kind you suggest
- DNA should be taken from a sterile source, flat 5a would have been the worst possible place to do so for obvious reasons
- In the circumstances, what difference would it have made to anything at all if the DNA profile had been obtained pre May 22nd?
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The pyjamas being sent are 'equal' in make, model, size, colours and designs as well as presumably the texture, to those the little girl was wearing at the time of her disappearance. The article sent serves for eventual comparisons with fibres collected by the competent officers of the Police Scientific Lab, within the scope of the current investigation.
Really?
So Amaral is saying, they have fibres from Madeleine's pyjamas. So where and how, did they aquire these fibres?
No, was not saying that, he was saying a duplicate pair of identical ones should be held for testing against any fibres that may be found in the future in the investigations. That is how I read it, JMO.
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The pyjamas being sent are 'equal' in make, model, size, colours and designs as well as presumably the texture, to those the little girl was wearing at the time of her disappearance. The article sent serves for eventual comparisons with fibres collected by the competent officers of the Police Scientific Lab, within the scope of the current investigation.
Really?
So Amaral is saying, they have fibres from Madeleine's pyjamas. So where and how, did they aquire these fibres?
No, was not saying that, he was saying a duplicate pair of identical ones should be held for testing against any fibres that may be found in the future in the investigations. That is how I read it, JMO.
The only way they can be tested, in the future, is if they actually have the pyjamas, Madeleine wore. Even then there could be a difference in the fibres.
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I am not a CSI expert, far from it, but don't you think that with the amount of evidence supplied to the best Laboratory in the world, a lot more information was expected?
The sturggies couldn't even say if the hair was from a dead or a live body - that much I could do with a simple microscope.
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I am not a CSI expert, far from it, but don't you think that with the amount of evidence supplied to the best Laboratory in the world, a lot more information was expected?
The sturggies couldn't even say if the hair was from a dead or a live body - that much I could do with a simple microscope.
and your results were?
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I am not a CSI expert, far from it, but don't you think that with the amount of evidence supplied to the best Laboratory in the world, a lot more information was expected?
The sturggies couldn't even say if the hair was from a dead or a live body - that much I could do with a simple microscope.
Luz, Corte-Real met with the people at the FSS. There's a receipt slip from the FSS, signed by Viegas.
The PJ/INML must have double-checked, don't you think?
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What I would love Luz to do as well as provide evidence for her claims with clear references to that evidence, is provide some kind of explanation for the crazy behaviour of Amaral who sent the pyjamas to the Portuguese lab when there was nothing they could do with them, nothing to compare them with. Surely as coordinator of the case he should have been aware of that?
After all the miserable spectacle that you gave here you want me to give you more rope to hang yourself? You are not ignorant, you are twisted mind.
Sorry mate, I'm not a circus helper.
Go be a clown on your own account.
So still just abuse from you and not a shred of evidence for any of your claims.
Readers will see who is acting the abusive clown here and it is not me.
Every single post you make describes what kind of person you are and what your true agenda is.
That agenda has no relationship to truth or you would be willing to evidence your claims.
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Yes, Corte-Real had a meeting with them and was quite disappointed.
In fact as soon as he arrived in Portugal he actioned the Low Cut Analysis immediately, he wasn't going to loose more substantial data to phony laboratories.
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The only way they can be tested, in the future, is if they actually have the pyjamas, Madeleine wore. Even then there could be a difference in the fibres.
Could be, but more likely that pyjamas of a certain brand and specific design would have the same ones. It is not a major issue IMO in the wider picture.
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Gilet, go buy some Purina for my cat, she is famished.
Thank you darling
oooops, don't forget it's baby cat food
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Gilet, go buy some Purina for my cat, she is famished.
Thank you darling
did you search?
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I am not a CSI expert, far from it, but don't you think that with the amount of evidence supplied to the best Laboratory in the world, a lot more information was expected?
The sturggies couldn't even say if the hair was from a dead or a live body - that much I could do with a simple microscope.
IIRC Mr Rebelo asked the UK authorities for hairs found in the car to be looked at to see if their was death banding on them as a matter of urgency.There is nothing in the files to say this was done.
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Yes, Corte-Real had a meeting with them and was quite disappointed.
In fact as soon as he arrived in Portugal he actioned the Low Cut Analysis immediately, he wasn't going to loose more substantial data to phony laboratories.
Where did he say that?
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Gilet, go buy some Purina for my cat, she is famished.
Thank you darling
oooops, don't forget it's baby cat food
More abuse from you. And still no evidence for any of your claims? Why do you constantly break forum rules?
" Please treat all members with respect, avoid speculation and ensure that any material posted is accompanied by the relevant links."
Every post you make breaks those rules.
Why?
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For God sake Gilet. The files were released in 2008. I spent hundreds if not thousands of hours going through them. I lived with those pages for years until I got fed up. I can retrive them in my head but I don't feel like it.
I'm not at my home now, I don't have those files with me now, and you want me to do what you should have done - check on the net?! It's all there for you, translated by different persons, just check.
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Yes, Corte-Real had a meeting with them and was quite disappointed.
In fact as soon as he arrived in Portugal he actioned the Low Cut Analysis immediately, he wasn't going to loose more substantial data to phony laboratories.
Where did he say that?
Yet again Luz posts claims without bothering to evidence them!
Why should anyone believe anything she says when if you ask her for links she simply posts a litany of abuse?
Such a refusal to post evidence or links is against forum rules.
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For God sake Gilet. The files were released in 2008. I spent hundreds if not thousands of hours going through them. I lived with those pages for years until I got fed up. I can retrive them in my head but I don't feel like it.
I'm not at my home now, I don't have those files with me now, and you want me to do what you should have done - check on the net?! It's all there for you, translated by different persons, just check.
that's what swimming in the Atlantico does for you
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For God sake Gilet. The files were released in 2008. I spent hundreds if not thousands of hours going through them. I lived with those pages for years until I got fed up. I can retrive them in my head but I don't feel like it.
I'm not at my home now, I don't have those files with me now, and you want me to do what you should have done - check on the net?! It's all there for you, translated by different persons, just check.
Then I suggest you refrain from posting your claims till you can firstly support them with evidence as demanded by forum rules and secondly till you can conduct yourself with more respect to other posters as demanded by forum rules. I am not interested in what you can or not find in your head, simply in seeing you post some actual evidence of the many claims you choose to post here.
It is you choosing to make the posts not me.
It is you failing to evidence those posts not me.
It is others seeing you fail to provide evidence and I have no doubt that reflects very badly on you not on me.
If you seriously expect people to trawl through tens of thousands of pages on your say so that evidence may exist there you are simply playing a sick game.
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Corte-Real seems to have agreed with Lowe (FSS) about the car DNA - the 15/37 soup.
33.09 – Dr Francisco Corte-Real, Vice President, National Forensics Institute: "When those 15 alleles are included in a mix, where beyond those 15 we can have another 30 or 40 alleles, that means that it includes biological material from several persons. And there it can be much more difficult, much more inconclusive, because we may have a mixture from several persons, including hypothetically, if that happens, we may have several persons from the same family, and that may even give us the idea, in a way, that a certain missing person may be included, and that is not conclusive."
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id225.html
He presumably also had the opportunity to examine the hair fragments in the car. There is a receipt slip signed by Viegas, so the PJ / INML could have double-checked.
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I am not a CSI expert, far from it, but don't you think that with the amount of evidence supplied to the best Laboratory in the world, a lot more information was expected?
The sturggies couldn't even say if the hair was from a dead or a live body - that much I could do with a simple microscope.
IIRC Mr Rebelo asked the UK authorities for hairs found in the car to be looked at to see if their was death banding on them as a matter of urgency.There is nothing in the files to say this was done.
My colleague, Andrew Palmer,
submitted various hair collected from the Renault Scenic for tests, using ...
LCN. <br>Those hairs were designated as 7B hair 1 and 7C hairs 7, 13 e 15.
Attempts to obtain a DNA profile of each hair by LCN was unfruitful, because no
DNA profile was obtained by LCN, possibly due to there being an insufficient
quantity of good quality DNA.
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DCI were thos hairs tested for deathbanding? That was the question.
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Yes, Corte-Real had a meeting with them and was quite disappointed.
In fact as soon as he arrived in Portugal he actioned the Low Cut Analysis immediately, he wasn't going to loose more substantial data to phony laboratories.
I think you will find that the phrase you want is Low Copy Number
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DCI were thos hairs tested for deathbanding? That was the question.
Did Corte-Real come to a different conclusion? if he had, that would be serious. He did go to the FSS, didn't he? And there is a receipt slip.
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DCI were thos hairs tested for deathbanding? That was the question.
Did Corte-Real come to a different conclusion? if he had, that would be serious. He did go to the FSS, didn't he? And there is a receipt slip.
Sorry, but I haven't got a clue what you are saying.
Edited to amend spelling error.
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DCI were thos hairs tested for deathbanding? That was the question.
Did Corte-Real come to a different conclusion? if he had, that would be serious. He did go to the FSS, didn't he? And there is a receipt slip.
Sorry, but I haven't got a clue what you are saying.
Edited to amend spelling error.
Portuguese investigators arrive in UK 28 November 2007:
(from left) Luis Viriato, Francisco Corte-Real, Ricardo Paiva and Fernando Viegas.
The four-strong Portuguese team met five experts from the FSS at Leicestershire Police headquarters on 29 November 2007 to review and interpret the DNA results.
The team was led by Francisco Corte-Real, the vice-president of the National Pathology Institute. With him were Det Insp Ricardo Paiva and police scientists Fernando Viegas and Louis Viriato.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id25.html
Palmer report:
Objects from the Renault Scenic - licence plate 59-DA-27
The following objects recovered from the scenic were subjected to examination:
1A, 1B, 1C, 1D,
2A, 2B, 2C, 2D, 2E,
3,
4A, 4B, 4C,
5A, 5B, 5C,
6A, 6B, 6C,
7A, 7B, 7C,
8A, 8B, 8C,
9 and
11 (2 objects).
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/A_L_PALMER.htm
(http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P13/13_VOLUME_XIIIa_Page_3465.jpg)
(http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P13/13_VOLUME_XIIIa_Page_3466.jpg)
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Thanks Carana for that. My only point, originally, was that Mr Rebelo asked for this specific testing and there is no record of it having being done or any correspondence further than the original request by Mr Rebelo. I really do not want to labour any point, I was making an observation about something which appears to be unanswered.
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Thanks Carana for that. My only point, originally, was that Mr Rebelo asked for this specific testing and there is no record of it having being done or any correspondence further than the original request by Mr Rebelo. I really do not want to labour any point, I was making an observation about something which appears to be unanswered.
I was just trying to post what I understand to be facts.
I agree that there is no mention of any test as to whether they showed any sign of being post-mortem. But Corte-Real presumably also had the opportunity of examining them.
As far as I can work out, they were short fragments.
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No worries Carana. Just another thing we will not know about. IMO after all the time many, formany differing reasons, probably felt they coyld not do any more. The PJ worked as much or more in time and effort than many UK cases of missing people with an and or presumed dead tag. Still, cold cases can be opened at any time.
Edited for afterthought.
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It wasn't only Amaral's grasp of forensics that was poor of course.
In an interview he said this about members of the team he was co-ordinating.
"I do not intend to blame any colleague, although the photo report left much to be desired, by not collecting any person in the photos when there were a lot of people in the house that night, it would have been important to have that. There were also weaknesses in taking fingerprints. It was normal, we were a small police station without specialised personnel in an investigation of this nature."
I wonder what those weaknesses were. And most importantly I wonder how those failings both in photography, and fingerprinting (and possibly other technical issues) impacted on the search for the little girl who had gone missing? I wonder if the police force had been better equipped or Amaral had mustered proper resources in those early hours of 4th May instead of sitting gazing at his own daughter and then going to bed whether the case would have progressed differently. Unfortunately those opportunities were lost and could never be recovered.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id165.html
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Correspondence between Amaral and the Portuguese forensic laboratory again ...
There is an anomaly with the dates, but that's not the point of principal interest.
Subject: Sending of Pyjamas
The present inquiry investigates the disappearance of Madeleine McCann on 3rd May 2007. I am herewith delivering to the Police Scientific Laboratory a pair of girl's pyjamas.
The Pyjamas are from Marks and Spencers, size 2 to 3 years -97 cm.
The pyjamas are composed of two pieces: camisole type without buttons and half sleeves, pink with designs, letters and tracing in white with (small) floral patterns, the right pyjama bottom leg has a design (smaller size) which is identical to that of the camisole.
The pyjamas being sent are 'equal' in make, model, size, colours and designs as well as presumably the texture, to those the little girl was wearing at the time of her disappearance. The article sent serves for eventual comparisons with fibres collected by the competent officers of the Police Scientific Lab, within the scope of the current investigation.
With compliments
Signed
The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation
Goncalo Amaral
And the bewiildered response:
1723 to 1725 Letter 15 March 2007 from LPC to PJ Portimao asking what should be done with the pyjamas there having been no fibres collected during the Inquiry
07 Processos Vol VII Page 1723 to 1725
07_VOLUME_VI1a_Page_1723
Letter
To: The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation
Date: 2007/03/15 (sic)
Ref: NUIPC 201/07 GALGS
Your communication: 2007/06/05
Ref no. 15971 Reg Correspondence 6429/07
Subject: Information
With reference to the abovementioned letter and in compliance with the despatch, we request you to provide us with information with regard to what should be done with the material sent, given that in this Scientific Police Laboratory there are no fibres that have been collected within the scope of the investigation mentioned above.
With compliments.
This is the man who, apparently, contradicted Prior on interpretation of the forensic results, then sent him away with a flea in his ear to berate the FSS on the subject of the PJ's powers of arrest ...
As a matter of fact it was Stuart Prior that irritated with the incongruences from the Lab, told them by phone that "with less than that I've sent people to prison".
What that shows is that the Laboratory was in fact a mess. They had received an amount of samples and that was just another to be taken with the others in order to be analized. They are supposed to be scientists not clowns to go with the pijamas to a children's party.
Yes, I do. It is in the book of Mr. Amaral, but very long before that I had that information from another person that was present at the room where that occurred.
Interesting.
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Correspondence between Amaral and the Portuguese forensic laboratory again ...
There is an anomaly with the dates, but that's not the point of principal interest.
Subject: Sending of Pyjamas
The present inquiry investigates the disappearance of Madeleine McCann on 3rd May 2007. I am herewith delivering to the Police Scientific Laboratory a pair of girl's pyjamas.
The Pyjamas are from Marks and Spencers, size 2 to 3 years -97 cm.
The pyjamas are composed of two pieces: camisole type without buttons and half sleeves, pink with designs, letters and tracing in white with (small) floral patterns, the right pyjama bottom leg has a design (smaller size) which is identical to that of the camisole.
The pyjamas being sent are 'equal' in make, model, size, colours and designs as well as presumably the texture, to those the little girl was wearing at the time of her disappearance. The article sent serves for eventual comparisons with fibres collected by the competent officers of the Police Scientific Lab, within the scope of the current investigation.
With compliments
Signed
The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation
Goncalo Amaral
And the bewiildered response:
1723 to 1725 Letter 15 March 2007 from LPC to PJ Portimao asking what should be done with the pyjamas there having been no fibres collected during the Inquiry
07 Processos Vol VII Page 1723 to 1725
07_VOLUME_VI1a_Page_1723
Letter
To: The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation
Date: 2007/03/15 (sic)
Ref: NUIPC 201/07 GALGS
Your communication: 2007/06/05
Ref no. 15971 Reg Correspondence 6429/07
Subject: Information
With reference to the abovementioned letter and in compliance with the despatch, we request you to provide us with information with regard to what should be done with the material sent, given that in this Scientific Police Laboratory there are no fibres that have been collected within the scope of the investigation mentioned above.
With compliments.
This is the man who, apparently, contradicted Prior on interpretation of the forensic results, then sent him away with a flea in his ear to berate the FSS on the subject of the PJ's powers of arrest ...
As a matter of fact it was Stuart Prior that irritated with the incongruences from the Lab, told them by phone that "with less than that I've sent people to prison".
What that shows is that the Laboratory was in fact a mess. They had received an amount of samples and that was just another to be taken with the others in order to be analized. They are supposed to be scientists not clowns to go with the pijamas to a children's party.
Yes, I do. It is in the book of Mr. Amaral, but very long before that I had that information from another person that was present at the room where that occurred.
Interesting.
Well it would be interesting were there any evidence. But as there isn't (and never is from Luz or Amaral for that matter, then I think I will simply ignore it till some evidence is forthcoming.
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Amaral apparently doesn't speak English. He may understand a few words, but probably not enough to understand a conversation, particularly if Stu has an unfamiliar accent.
Did the person in the room you are referring to speak English or not?