UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: John on April 15, 2013, 09:56:22 PM
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Luz has made the claim that Mr. Amaral gave up his career in order to tell what the parents wouldn't. She also claims he was not dismissed, that he requested his dismissal in order to write his book about the McCann case.
She also claims that he was the best PJ detective in the country at the time of the McCann abduction and justifies this by stating that just weeks before his 'self dismissal' he made the biggest drugs haul in Europe. Also that six months after the book launch he attended a major charity event in Portugal attended by Royalty with a ticket minimum of €500 in order to provide funds for Africa children. She also suggests that the royalties from the book went to the same good cause.
Luz also claims that Amaral was not involved in any crime and justifies this by stating that Leonor Cipriano is a convicted murderer, a perjurer and a liar, as decreed by a Court in Faro earlier this month. The same Court which found all the detectives under Amaral to be innocent of any crime.
She claims that to state that Amaral is guilty is a lie in itself. She again justifies this in that how can Amaral be guilty of a cover-up if there was nothing to cover up?
Please discuss.
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Gilet & al. insult the portuguese and especially Mr. Amaral not recognizing that he gave up his career in order to tell what the parents would not tell. He was not dismissed, he requested his dismissal, in order to write the book. He was, at the time the best PJ detective in the country. Just weeks before his self dismissal he made the biggest apprehension of drugs in Europe. Half an year after the book he attended a charity event in the north of Portugal promoted by the royalty of Europe, whose minimum was €500, to gather funds for children in Africa (I suspect that's where his book's royalties went to). He was involved in a crime that never happened, by a murderess liar, as was proved this month in a Court of Faro - the Court considered all detectives innocent since there was no crime.
Going around saying that he is guilty is a lie. How could he be guilty of signing the records of the day that didn't contain an account of a torture if it never happened?!
What did the MacCann do for their daughter?
I have never made the claim that Goncalo Amaral was dismissed from the police. Anyone who suggests I have is simply posting false information.
I have however (relying on the information in his own book) which reveals that as soon as he got off the phone to that journalist he knew he had done an injustice to the British police and would face the consequences which turned out to be his dismissal from the case.
Your view of Amaral and his book is then interesting. You say he left the force to write his book, but it was in fact only a matter of a few days from his final day as a policeman to the book going on sale. His last day on the force was 30 June 2008 and the book was in the shops on 24 July, just 25 days later. Its clear then that he did not resign from the force to write his book as you state as such a schedule would be impossible. No, he resigned so that he could publish it and sell it. He wrote it while a serving police officer.
The fact that he wrote a book with (at least part of an aim to profit personally and make money) is very odd too in that you claim, "I can't accept that a little child has disappeared and there are still people that are using it to make a living." That is in fact what Amaral was (and presumably still is) doing of course. Hypocrisy methinks?
You have a suspicion that he donated it all to children in Africa. Ah, well, if he ever turns up in court (and his lawyer manages to arrive with him) then we will soon discover the truth of that, won't we. Till then I won't go hunting round Africa for his fortune.
You go on to claim that the crime against Leonor Cipriano never happened. I think you need to look carefully at the court records and show us some evidence for that claim. I don't recall Portuguese papers making that their headline. The reality is that however you prefer to describe the fact, Amaral has been convicted of the crime of signing off that report about the alleged torture. It isn't a matter of even whether the torture happened. It was his personal action in trying to cover up the actions of his men that matters. He was convicted as a criminal, and sentenced as such. After a full appeal he remained convicted and sentenced. The courts of your country clearly don't go along with your claims, or more accurately you cannot, for whatever reason accept the Justice handed down to him.
Your question about the McCanns actions is an interesting response, clearly simply a lashing out in frustration.
To answer it I will simply point out that they have kept alive the hope that she may be alive, they have called continuously for the re-opening of the case (knowing that can happen and always could only happen after the archival on the discovery of relevant new evidence). They have challenged those who (like Amaral and Bennett) sought to gain either kudos or finance from peddling unproven theories about the death of their child which clearly damage the search for the child. They have kept the picture of Madeleine in our minds. They have maintained a loving and caring family home for Madeleine's sister and brother and for her in the hope that she may return one day. And now Kate is working not just for Madeleine as a missing child but for hundreds and thousands of others whose families suffer from their absence.
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My initial comment would be that the Portuguese police officers were deemed to be not guilty on the basis that Leonor Cipriano couldn't identify them. I believe she had a plastic bag over her head when she was interrogated and beaten. The facts stand however that Amaral covered up for his junior officers so it will be interesting to see how this all plays out in the courts.
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Fact is this Amaral based his book of lies on partial gathered evidence, evidence he thought convicted the McCanns and discounted any other evidence that pointed away from it.
Had he waited until the Official Police Files and Attorney gave their final report which said the McCanns committed no crime and were no way implicated in Madeleine going missing
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The Portuguese Court has seized a large sum of money deposited in a Limited Company owned by Amaral, and also a jaguar Car bought by the same Limited Company. And since Amaral has been up to his eyes in debt from unpaid Mortgages and unpaid State Taxes since 2002, the seized money can only have come from his book. So no Africans have benefited from that.
This money wasn't seized until nearly a year after his book was released.
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I'm not sure that everything is verifiable.
He did, indeed, appear to have been present at a charity event organised by the Order of Malta.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMWbxYjcNBs
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The Portuguese Court has seized a large sum of money deposited in a Limited Company owned by Amaral, and also a jaguar Car bought by the same Limited Company. And since Amaral has been up to his eyes in debt from unpaid Mortgages and unpaid State Taxes since 2002, the seized money can only have come from his book. So no Africans have benefited from that.
This money wasn't seized until nearly a year after his book was released.
Why was his money and car seized ?
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Some of Amaral's claims are quite extraordinary: (then) UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown was told before Amaral that Amaral was to be removed from the case?
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The Portuguese Court has seized a large sum of money deposited in a Limited Company owned by Amaral, and also a jaguar Car bought by the same Limited Company. And since Amaral has been up to his eyes in debt from unpaid Mortgages and unpaid State Taxes since 2002, the seized money can only have come from his book. So no Africans have benefited from that.
This money wasn't seized until nearly a year after his book was released.
Why was his money and car seized ?
Because The McCanns had brought a Libel Claim against him. There are also other Debtors although I don't know how far they might have taken their claims.
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Some of Amaral's claims are quite extraordinary: (then) UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown was told before Amaral that Amaral was to be removed from the case?
I have never been able to work out where he got that idea from. Mystery.
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The Portuguese Court has seized a large sum of money deposited in a Limited Company owned by Amaral, and also a jaguar Car bought by the same Limited Company. And since Amaral has been up to his eyes in debt from unpaid Mortgages and unpaid State Taxes since 2002, the seized money can only have come from his book. So no Africans have benefited from that.
This money wasn't seized until nearly a year after his book was released.
Why was his money and car seized ?
Because The McCanns had brought a Libel Claim against him. There are also other Debtors although I don't know how far they might have taken their claims.
Thankyou
So, given that the libel trial is still going ahead at some point, does that mean his assets are still 'seized' ?
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As I understand it, the proceeds from the sale of his book are locked away in a bank account awaiting the outcome of the trial?
Is that right?
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Amaral's assets will remain seized until The Libel Trial is resolved, at least. But just because The McCanns requested 1.2 million Euros does not mean that they will get that, although they might. And then there is the matter of Lawyer's Costs.
Basically, The cCanns want the profit that he made from his book, his video and his television interviews, both of the latter of which I think were worse than his book since he categorically stated in both that The McCanns were responsible for things he cannot prove.
Also a house belonging to Amaral was seized. However what his other Debtors will do about what is left, if anything, is up to them.
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So the McCanns have had Amaral in a financial stranglehold for the last three years ?
Must have been difficult for him to mount a defence under those circumstances, and yet he appears to have not wanted to settle out of court
Is that a sign of confidence from him , do you think ?
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So the McCanns have had Amaral in a financial stranglehold for the last three years ?
Must have been difficult for him to mount a defence under those circumstances, and yet he appears to have not wanted to settle out of court
Is that a sign of confidence from him , do you think ?
Not the fault of The McCanns if Amaral keeps on delaying The Trial.
Personally, I think Amaral half believes he will win because he has failed to understand the responsibilities that are attached to the right to Freedom of Speech. Rights to which The McCanns are entitled. His Book might be deemed a hypothesis, but his video and his television interviews cannot possibly be.
On the other hand, he might think that the money and his house are gaining in value, so perhaps he will come out with something.
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So the McCanns have had Amaral in a financial stranglehold for the last three years ?
Must have been difficult for him to mount a defence under those circumstances, and yet he appears to have not wanted to settle out of court
Is that a sign of confidence from him , do you think ?
Not the fault of The McCanns if Amaral keeps on delaying The Trial.
Personally, I think Amaral half believes he will win because he has failed to understand the responsibilities that are attached to the right to Freedom of Speech. Rights to which The McCanns are entitled. His Book might be deemed a hypothesis, but his video and his television interviews cannot possibly be.
On the other hand, he might think that the money and his house are gaining in value, so perhaps he will come out with something.
What evidence do you have to support your claim that it was Amaral who delayed the trial on the eve of it begining ?
Portuguese press and TV reported that it was the McCanns who had stopped the trial at the eleventh hour, and that it was they who were seeking an out of court settlement
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So the McCanns have had Amaral in a financial stranglehold for the last three years ?
Must have been difficult for him to mount a defence under those circumstances, and yet he appears to have not wanted to settle out of court
Is that a sign of confidence from him , do you think ?
Not the fault of The McCanns if Amaral keeps on delaying The Trial.
Personally, I think Amaral half believes he will win because he has failed to understand the responsibilities that are attached to the right to Freedom of Speech. Rights to which The McCanns are entitled. His Book might be deemed a hypothesis, but his video and his television interviews cannot possibly be.
On the other hand, he might think that the money and his house are gaining in value, so perhaps he will come out with something.
What evidence do you have to support your claim that it was Amaral who delayed the trial on the eve of it begining ?
Portuguese press and TV reported that it was the McCanns who had stopped the trial at the eleventh hour, and that it was they who were seeking an out of court settlement
Neither you or I have any evidence of who requested an Out of Court Settlement at the last minute. But Amaral has delayed The Trial on previous occasions.
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So the McCanns have had Amaral in a financial stranglehold for the last three years ?
Must have been difficult for him to mount a defence under those circumstances, and yet he appears to have not wanted to settle out of court
Is that a sign of confidence from him , do you think ?
Not the fault of The McCanns if Amaral keeps on delaying The Trial.
Personally, I think Amaral half believes he will win because he has failed to understand the responsibilities that are attached to the right to Freedom of Speech. Rights to which The McCanns are entitled. His Book might be deemed a hypothesis, but his video and his television interviews cannot possibly be.
On the other hand, he might think that the money and his house are gaining in value, so perhaps he will come out with something.
What evidence do you have to support your claim that it was Amaral who delayed the trial on the eve of it begining ?
Portuguese press and TV reported that it was the McCanns who had stopped the trial at the eleventh hour, and that it was they who were seeking an out of court settlement
Neither you or I have any evidence of who requested an Out of Court Settlement at the last minute. But Amaral has delayed The Trial on previous occasions.
Well, that's not quite correct
As evidence that it was the McCanns who delayed the trial this last time, we have the reports in Portuguese press and TV
There has been no denial of the reports from the McCanns, as far as I am aware
On the other hand, there is no evidence at all to suppose it was Amaral who caused the delay
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A little less Press and TV and a bit more actual proof might be a good idea. And at no time are The McCanns obliged to confirm or deny anything for your benefit.
Legally speaking it is a fact that only The Plaintiff can request a Suspension, even if The Defendant has originally asked for such.
So we still don't know at whose behest it was.
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I won't bring his post over here, because I know that's frowned on on this board, but Jean-Pierre made a post elsewhere the gist of which was that while either side might have suggested an out-of-court settlement, the idea of the McCanns requesting a settlement on Amaral's terms is unlikely, because the McCanns always have the option of simply dropping the action if they see no prospect of success.
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I won't bring his post over here, because I know that's frowned on on this board, but Jean-Pierre made a post elsewhere the gist of which was that while either side might have suggested an out-of-court settlement, the idea of the McCanns requesting a settlement on Amaral's terms is unlikely, because the McCanns always have the option of simply dropping the action if they see no prospect of success.
Do you really believe 'simply dropping the action' is a realistic or acceptable option for the McCanns ?
It would be a PR disaster, and send the message that Amaral had not libeled them in his book
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There were at least two earlier delays, both at the behest of Amaral (or his team) and the circumstances of Amaral's parting with Cabrita have never been clear.
Blacksmith suggested Cabrita had become seriously, possibly terminally, ill.
But I never recalled reading independent corroboration of that, when I have enquired after Cabrita's health on the Amazon board, my requests have been met with hostile and dismissive shrugs.
No one really seems to know or care ...