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Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Redblossom on June 05, 2013, 07:16:43 PM
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well isn't that a lie, he told Anna.
I know he wasn't sleeping, he was in a bar with an old friend.
So what?
ANNOUNCEMENT OF A DISAPPEARANCE: THE FIRST SEVENTY-TWO HOURS
On this evening, May 3rd 2007, I decide to dine at the Carvi Brasserie, in the centre of Portimão, before going home. I have been living for a year in this town, where I lead the Department of Criminal Investigation of the police judiciaire. In 1982, when I was 23 and I had just taken up this career, I had already gone there. There, I had made the acquaintance of someone who was to become my friend, Manuel João. Former local official and sporty, a charismatic person. He always lent a hand to members of the police judiciaire who went to the town for the purposes of an investigation. As an elected local official, he originated the creation of a police judiciaire department in Portimão. Thus, that evening, while savouring fruits de mer, we discuss the problems of Portuguese society.
It is midnight when I receive the news about the disappearance of a little four-year-old English girl. The police officer on call was informed about it by the National Guard of The Republic (GNR) At the time of her disappearance, the little girl was supposed to have been sleeping in an apartment while her parents were dining a hundred metres away. An inspector is sent to the scene immediately to establish the initial facts. A forensic expert assigned to security of the premises will join him. All precautions are taken to preserve possible clues and elements of evidence. I demand to be informed very regularly and, before going home, I call on the police on duty to check that all urgent measures are underway. The head of the Guard has already alerted the police authorities at Faro airport and the control post set up on the Guadiana* bridge.
(*The river on the frontier between Portugal and Spain.)
THE REPORTS LEAVE A LOT TO BE DESIRED
The examination of the premises by the investigator and the representative of the forensic police just after the announcement of the disappearance turns out to be quite unproductive. A concise report, where their observations are written up, is accompanied by numerous photographs taken inside and outside apartment 5A - which don't give an account of, according to us, everything they could have observed. This error is explained by the absence of procedures in case of a child's disappearance, notably concerning the actions to be taken when examining the scene.
Lots of people were already in place; however, nobody appeared in the photos. We don't know, for example, how they were dressed. Such observations can turn out to be important later on. The report mentions that the twins were asleep in their bed, but there is no proof to confirm it; on the contrary, in the photographs, you can see empty cots, where only the mattresses remain - the sheets and blankets having been removed. Why have their beds been stripped? If the sheets had not been removed, traces of their presence could have been found there.
That evening, on arriving home, I see Inès, my younger daughter, who is sleeping close to my wife, Sofia. In silence, in the dim light of the bedroom, I sit on the edge of the bed. Outside, far from her mother's warmth, a child of the same age is lost. Sofia wakes up and asks me what is happening. I tell her about Madeleine's disappearance and instinctively, she holds our daughter tightly in her arms and makes room for me.
I make lots of phone calls and send a text message to the director of the Faro Department of Criminal Investigation (DIC): child, English, aged 4, disappeared from a Praia da Luz hotel. It's sufficient. Reading the message, he will understand the gravity of the situation. Three years before, we had dealt with a similar case, a few kilometres from Praia da Luz. We had not been informed at the time of that disappearance, and we are convinced that if the investigation could have been started immediately we would have been able to discover some physical evidence. The police response is fundamental. The first 72 hours are essential.
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I have created this new topic with a post made by Redblossom earlier.
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8((()*/
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I find the intimated contempt that Amaral was 'in a bar' when Madeleine went missing to be quite astonishing
... Why should he not have been ?
On the other hand, the fact that her parents were 'in a bar' when Madeleine went missing .....
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You are wrong Icabod.
The Mccanns were NOT in a bar, tbey we in an outside restaurant
Quite different
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You are wrong Icabod.
The Mccanns were NOT in a bar, tbey we in an outside restaurant
Quite different
You get my point though sadie ?
Critisising Amaral for being out socialising when Madeleine went missing is a nonsense in itself .... but doing so when the little girl's own parents were out socialising themselves is breathtaking chutzpah !
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chutzpah !
Not familiar with that yiddish word, I googled and found this :
Rosten defined the term as "that quality enshrined in a man who, having killed his mother and father, throws himself on the mercy of the court because he is an orphan."
Just the kind of humour I love.
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Not familiar with that yiddish word, I googled and found this :
Rosten defined the term as "that quality enshrined in a man who, having killed his mother and father, throws himself on the mercy of the court because he is an orphan."
Just the kind of humour I love.
You find the described scenario above - a matter of humour?
I wonder - especially on a board with this subject matter, but I suppose in Portugal they find putting up a mannequin with a child's sun hat and a painted on coloboma - yards from the church -on the first anniversary of her disappearance - a laughing matter too.
But if these things cheer you up - so be it.
Quite explains a certain mindset.
But each to their own I suppose - and who am I to spoil your fun?
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You get my point though sadie ?
Critisising Amaral for being out socialising when Madeleine went missing is a nonsense in itself .... but doing so when the little girl's own parents were out socialising themselves is breathtaking chutzpah !
Amaral drank too much. He was known for it. None of the Tapas 9 did as far as we are aware. The tapas 9 were eating their dinner, yep there was a social element undoubtedly, but they were on holiday
Amaral was working. It is known that Amaral drank heavily and gorged himself.
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Amaral drank too much. He was known for it. None of the Tapas 9 did as far as we are aware. The tapas 9 were eating their dinner, yep there was a social element undoubtedly, but they were on holiday
Amaral was working. It is known that Amaral drank heavily and gorged himself.
The McCanns and their friends didn't sit down until 9.00p.m and they left at just after 10.00.
The drinks came as part of the meal. Not much time to drink too much IMO whilst you're eating a 2/3 course meal and some are taking time out to go and check on the children.
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Amaral drank too much. He was known for it. None of the Tapas 9 did as far as we are aware. The tapas 9 were eating their dinner, yep there was a social element undoubtedly, but they were on holiday
Amaral was working. It is known that Amaral drank heavily and gorged himself.
Madeleine's safety that night was not Amaral's responsibility .... it was her mum and dad's
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Amaral can't be criticised for being out eating and drinking the night Madeleine was abducted. Presumably he was off-duty and as entitled as anyone to spend an evening socialising.
The criticism arises for his actions (or rather, non-actions) after he got the message about a child having gone missing. He went home rather than to the scene of the event. Nor did he get himself down there the next day; in fact, he was so hands-off that he never even met with either of the distraught parents throughout the entire time he was involved in the investigation.
Extraordinary behaviour for a senior police officer in charge of the most important investigation of his career.
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Amaral can't be criticised for being out eating and drinking the night Madeleine was abducted. Presumably he was off-duty and as entitled as anyone to spend an evening socialising.
The criticism arises for his actions (or rather, non-actions) after he got the message about a child having gone missing. He went home rather than to the scene of the event. Nor did he get himself down there the next day; in fact, he was so hands-off that he never even met with either of the distraught parents throughout the entire time he was involved in the investigation.
Extraordinary behaviour for a senior police officer in charge of the most important investigation of his career.
That is fair comment Chinagirl ... I also find it astonishing that Amaral was so 'distant' in such a high profile case as to never even meet the people involved
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That is fair comment Chinagirl ... I also find it astonishing that Amaral was so 'distant' in such a high profile case as to never even meet the people involved
I agree Icab. An incomprehensible decision and one which he has never properly explained. In fact he went out of his way in his book to hide the fact IMO. No-one reading it (who didn't already know), would have a clue that he never met or spoke to the McCanns during the whole time he was on this case - in fact they would have gained the opposite impression.
Maybe if he had met them and talked to them from the very beginning he would have developed a different theory to the one he so quickly decided upon.
I'm not absolutely certain, but I don't think he met anyone else from the group either.
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Yes, that would actually be worthy of a thread on its own, who DID Amaral actually interview in person? We know he interviewed Murat & what Murat thought about the interview.
ROBERT MURAT: He basically told me it was a game of two halves and as the night before I hadn’t confessed, erm, then, he would get me on the second half and he just kind of turned his back on me. He didn’t… He just… It seemed he didn’t care about the truth. That was the, thats how I felt.
http://madeleinemccannthetruth.wordpress.com/2012/04/26/transcript-of-panorama-madeleine-mccann/
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Yes, that would actually be worthy of a thread on its own, who DID Amaral actually interview in person? We know he interviewed Murat & what Murat thought about the interview.
ROBERT MURAT: He basically told me it was a game of two halves and as the night before I hadn?t confessed, erm, then, he would get me on the second half and he just kind of turned his back on me. He didn?t? He just? It seemed he didn?t care about the truth. That was the, thats how I felt.
http://madeleinemccannthetruth.wordpress.com/2012/04/26/transcript-of-panorama-madeleine-mccann/
If Amaral represented the best the Portuguese had in policing I seriously fear for the Portuguese people.
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That is fair comment Chinagirl ... I also find it astonishing that Amaral was so 'distant' in such a high profile case as to never even meet the people involved
Totally astonishing that the senior detective in a case with such a high international profile did not even meet the parents of an abducted 3 year old. What was he afraid of?
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Yes, and the alarming number of criminal convictions against members of Amaral's team doesn't help to inspire confidence in their honourability as law enforcement officers either IMO.
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who am I to spoil your fun?
Nothing to do with fun, it is jüdischer Witz !
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I'm not actually bothered where Amaral was at the time the news broke, I'm more bothered that HE didn't bother to take any actions whatsoever to make sure that everything was under control. Even if he felt his personal attendance wasn't warranted, a phone call to his 2nd in command, for example, asking him to take over responsibility until the morning, would have been SOMETHING, at least.
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I'm not actually bothered where Amaral was at the time the news broke, I'm more bothered that HE didn't bother to take any actions whatsoever to make sure that everything was under control. Even if he felt his personal attendance wasn't warranted, a phone call to his 2nd in command, for example, asking him to take over responsibility until the morning, would have been SOMETHING, at least.
Almeida?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
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That is fair comment Chinagirl ... I also find it astonishing that Amaral was so 'distant' in such a high profile case as to never even meet the people involved
Many people were amazed when they discovered Mr Amaral's "distance". It wasn't "high profile" in the first days. He could have been irritated with the diplomatic "control" (I would have). May be he preferred not to be influenced by memories of Joana case.
In any case, and even if one judges he did a bad job, he really involved himself totally in this case.
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Almeida?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
Yes, that would obviously have solved the case within minutes, knowing what we know now of Mr. Tavares de Almeida's investigative approach.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,301629,00.html
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Police inaction through the night is a pure myth.
Norms must be respected to initiate an investigation and the control belongs to the Public Ministry.
It was a pity the PJ wasn't alerted earlier, but the Portugueses can't be blamed.
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It is astonishing that Amaral never met the McCanns. You would have thought he would have met them if only to reassure them that all was being done to find Madeleine.
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Police inaction through the night is a pure myth.
Norms must be respected to initiate an investigation and the control belongs to the Public Ministry.
It was a pity the PJ wasn't alerted earlier, but the Portugueses can't be blamed.
No, there was plenty of activity during the night, we know that, GNR were there, dogs were brought etc. Are you saying that police in Portugal don't hand over cases to the appropriate police authority automatically & just wait until the victims of crimes ASK for it to be done.
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Madeleine's safety that night was not Amaral's responsibility .... it was her mum and dad's
So allowing for the fact that (as they admit) the McCanns made an error and should not have left the children, you don't believe that from 11 pm onwards the officer co-ordinating the search for a missing child that evening had any responsibility for her safety.
Understood.
It would appear Amaral thought along the same lines too. After all he just made a few phone calls about her plight and then went home to bed.
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So allowing for the fact that (as they admit) the McCanns made an error and should not have left the children, you don't believe that from 11 pm onwards the officer co-ordinating the search for a missing child that evening had any responsibility for her safety.
Understood.
It would appear Amaral thought along the same lines too. After all he just made a few phone calls about her plight and then went home to bed.
No, I don't find it unacceptable that Amaral did not present himself personally in the initial stages of the investigation ( although I certainly question the fact that he did not meet with the McCanns as the investigation progressed )
His going home to bed that night is no great shock ... he knew his men were there following procedure and that he would be updated as necessary
By the way, you do realise that Gerry McCann went to sleep that night too ? ... that is something I do find surprising
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No, I don't find it unacceptable that Amaral did not present himself personally in the initial stages of the investigation ( although I certainly question the fact that he did not meet with the McCanns as the investigation progressed )
His going home to bed that night is no great shock ... he knew his men were there following procedure and that he would be updated as necessary
By the way, you do realise that Gerry McCann went to sleep that night too ? ... that is something I do find surprising
From accounts, they'd got up at around 7am ish with the three young children on 3 May. Had an activity-filled day. Disaster struck late evening; they were up until around 3-4am ish.
Is there something I should find suspicious in a 2-3 hour rest before dawn to recuperate with a big day ahead?
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From accounts, they'd got up at around 7am ish with the three young children on 3 May. Had an activity-filled day. Disaster struck late evening; they were up until around 3-4am ish.
Is there something I should find suspicious in a 2-3 hour rest before dawn to recuperate with a big day ahead?
Not unless they were on speed or taking drugs to keep awake, no. Stress wears people out & in the end you will fall asleep regardless of the circumstance.
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No, there was plenty of activity during the night, we know that, GNR were there, dogs were brought etc. Are you saying that police in Portugal don't hand over cases to the appropriate police authority automatically & just wait until the victims of crimes ASK for it to be done.
I'm not saying that and you're just teasing me, Mrs. B ;)
Norms have to be respected as well as awareness of emergency.
For instance, the Amber like European alert for missing children must obey to imperative norms, one of which is evidence of abduction. If abduction is established, it belongs to the PGR to launch the alert. This is no police business. It takes a certain time, but obviously this kind of alert is too precious to risk being discredited.
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I'm not saying that and you're just teasing me, Mrs. B ;)
Norms have to be respected as well as awareness of emergency.
For instance, the Amber like European alert for missing children must obey to imperative norms, one of which is evidence of abduction. If abduction is established, it belongs to the PGR to launch the alert. This is no police business. It takes a certain time, but obviously this kind of alert is too precious to risk being discredited.
Portugal weren't a member, in 2007 though, Anne. They also rejected the project of a European Amber alert, in 2008.
The Amber Alert
From days to mere minutes
Nobody knew what Madeleine McCann looked like when she disappeared. Now they do. But back in 2007, it took days before the case got publicity outside Portugal and the UK.
Next time a child goes missing, a picture of the missing child should instantly be seen by everyone in the area: citizens, media, police, law enforcement officials and border authorities across Europe. And when it happens close to the border: also those just across the border, with the possibility to widen the search with one push of a button.
Galvanizing the entire community when a child goes missing. In mere minutes. No matter what. No matter where. Across borders. Across language borders. That is what the AMBER Alert Europe project is about.
http://www.amberalert.eu/AboutUs.aspx#more
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Yes, & in reality nobody would give hoot if the child turned out NOT to have been abducted but found safe & sound. I'd rather have a few FALSE alerts compared to having NO alert if a child's life is in the balance.
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Portugal weren't a member, in 2007 though, Anne. They also rejected the project of a European Amber alert, in 2008.
I don't think you're well informed, DCI
EU plan for missing child alerts
Paul Hamilos in Madrid, Esther Addley
The Guardian, Saturday 29 September 2007
Portugal will next week call for the creation of an EU-wide alert system for missing children, five months after Madeleine McCann disappeared from a holiday resort in the south of the country. The move has been welcomed by the McCann family.
Portugal, which holds the six-month rotating EU presidency, will make its call to justice and home affairs ministers at an EU meeting in Lisbon. It will propose that ministers consider expanding to all 27 countries a French alert system involving a nationwide media campaign and messages in stations and on motorways.
"In a Europe without borders ... when a kid disappears in France, maybe he's not in France any more, maybe in Germany, or any other EU country," an EU presidency official told Reuters. If a child goes missing in an EU country, the alert could immediately be sent out to all other member states, with details of the missing child's appearance and appropriate contact details for anyone with information.
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Niether is Levy, then!
Is this another one of Levy's lies, then, Anne?
Wednesday, 18 June 2008
EU Vice-President Jacques Barrot rejects McCann's project of a European Amber alert
The strategy approved by the European Parliament, concerning an alert system for missing children, will go forward, the European Commission Vice-president Jacques Barrot said, Monday, in Strasbourg. The appointment of Mr. Barrot to be the Commissioner for Justice, Freedom and Security, will be voted by the European Parliament next Wednesday.
Mr. Barrot mentioned the European Parliament project intended to set up a EU hotline in all 27 state member and a coordinated alarm system, in cooperation with NGO's and child protection associations and said that child protection was “among his priorities”, during a formal hearing on Monday. This hearing is one of the steps for the appointment of a new Commissioner or a change of portfolio. Mr. Barrot was the Commissioner in charge of Transports.
The remarks were considered by several Members of European Parliament a “diplomatic answer” to the McCann strong critics about the European Parliament project, published in Gerry's blog on 13 June. The parents of Madeleine McCann went to Strasbourg today, trying to get the support of more 182 MEPs, for a “written declaration” that appeals for a system similar to the American Amber alert to be set up in EU, but they only managed to get 15 more signatures and are far from the 393 needed.
During a Press Conference, Kate and Gerry McCann reacted with exasperation, when journalists questioned them about the fact that they left three children alone in an apartment, the night when Madeleine disappeared. “We didn't abandoned or neglected Madeleine. Somebody came in the apartment and took a child. Repeating that question is really annoying”, was the answer of Gerry McCann.
“The fundamental question is the fact that a child was kidnapped and there is a criminal on the run”, said Kate McCann. “We must concentrate in the fundamental question. It's not helpful to insist in raising the same subject. Nothing changed, in the last 14 months and I don't understand why we are talking about that, again.”
Duarte Levy and Paulo Reis
http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.co.uk/2008/06/eu-vice-president-jacques-barrot.html
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The McCanns and their friends didn't sit down until 9.00p.m and they left at just after 10.00.
The drinks came as part of the meal. Not much time to drink too much IMO whilst you're eating a 2/3 course meal and some are taking time out to go and check on the children.
What was the point of that post? the Mccanns left at ten so didnt drink alot? that was only on THAT, for obvious reasons, other days they are reported by various waiters/barmen to have been out till 11.30/12.00!! And on one night later.
The average drunk was one bottle of wine each every night, some say less some a bit more, Gerry himself confirms it was more or less a bottle each nightly in one of his statements
What Mr Amaral ate or drunk or *gorged on* as some have posted or if he slept or not and when is no ones business
Oh and Ive amended the op, more info, he called everyone he had to and set in place what had to be set, whoever said he just made a few cursory unimportant calls and b....red off to bed was disgustingly disingenuous
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Niether is Levy, then!
Is this another one of Levy's lies, then, Anne?
Wednesday, 18 June 2008
EU Vice-President Jacques Barrot rejects McCann's project of a European Amber alert
The strategy approved by the European Parliament, concerning an alert system for missing children, will go forward, the European Commission Vice-president Jacques Barrot said, Monday, in Strasbourg. The appointment of Mr. Barrot to be the Commissioner for Justice, Freedom and Security, will be voted by the European Parliament next Wednesday.
Mr. Barrot mentioned the European Parliament project intended to set up a EU hotline in all 27 state member and a coordinated alarm system, in cooperation with NGO's and child protection associations and said that child protection was “among his priorities”, during a formal hearing on Monday. This hearing is one of the steps for the appointment of a new Commissioner or a change of portfolio. Mr. Barrot was the Commissioner in charge of Transports.
The remarks were considered by several Members of European Parliament a “diplomatic answer” to the McCann strong critics about the European Parliament project, published in Gerry's blog on 13 June. The parents of Madeleine McCann went to Strasbourg today, trying to get the support of more 182 MEPs, for a “written declaration” that appeals for a system similar to the American Amber alert to be set up in EU, but they only managed to get 15 more signatures and are far from the 393 needed.
During a Press Conference, Kate and Gerry McCann reacted with exasperation, when journalists questioned them about the fact that they left three children alone in an apartment, the night when Madeleine disappeared. “We didn't abandoned or neglected Madeleine. Somebody came in the apartment and took a child. Repeating that question is really annoying”, was the answer of Gerry McCann.
“The fundamental question is the fact that a child was kidnapped and there is a criminal on the run”, said Kate McCann. “We must concentrate in the fundamental question. It's not helpful to insist in raising the same subject. Nothing changed, in the last 14 months and I don't understand why we are talking about that, again.”
Duarte Levy and Paulo Reis
http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.co.uk/2008/06/eu-vice-president-jacques-barrot.html
The McCanns didn't invent any project. They were used to back an old one and fairly used it to their self promotion, though Madeleine's case was out of the contemplated cases, having no evidence of abduction.
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This subject of Amber alert which you introduced to this thread Anne Guedes is completely off-topic. Surely it should be moved to a new thread as it bears no relation to the OP?