UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: DCI on June 10, 2013, 05:22:28 PM
-
Amaral had a Judgment against him for a fraud perpetrated against his brother, going back to when he was married before.
-
I believe that Sofia Leal, Amaral's second wife was also implicated along with Goncalo Amaral.
-
I believe that Sofia Leal, Amaral's second wife was also convicted along with Goncalo Amaral.
Yes, then they blame the McCann's for their financial woes @)(++(*
-
///
-
Yes, then they blame the McCann's for their financial woes @)(++(*
Interesting. This happened in 2002 I do believe.
-
////
-
Defrauding ones brother, and brother in law has got to be the pits.
-
Defrauding ones brother, and brother in law has got to be the pits.
It's about as low as you can go. Makes fascinating reading, thanks for posting this up, DCI. 8@??)( 8((()*/ Does he mention this at all in hid 'book', or in fact anywhere at all?
-
Defrauding ones brother, and brother in law has got to be the pits.
I see this thread is not well liked @)(++(*
What with his years of tax evasion. His fraud conviction, and repossession of his houses, hardly squeaky clean are they? ?>)()<
-
It's about as low as you can go. Makes fascinating reading, thanks for posting this up, DCI. 8@??)( 8((()*/ Does he mention this at all in hid 'book', or in fact anywhere at all?
Nah! It was all the McCann's fault, according to the lovely Sofia @)(++(*
Why did he never pay anything off from his book gains? Two of them working full time, they must have been rolling in it ?>)()<
-
I see this thread is not well liked @)(++(*
What with his years of tax evasion. His fraud conviction, and repossession of his houses, hardly squeaky clean are they? ?>)()<
Not at all clean in any way, shape or form. You are right, not much interest so far, but the night is young and who knows what may happen in the wee small hours? I do hope this stays up, it is a long read and I would be very upset if it vanished before I have had a chance to absorb all the details. let alone the twists! >@@(*&)
-
Not at all clean in any way, shape or form. You are right, not much interest so far, but the night is young and who knows what may happen in the wee small hours? I do hope this stays up, it is a long read and I would be very upset if it vanished before I have had a chance to absorb all the details. let alone the twists! >@@(*&)
No reason why it should vanish, Puffin. Its only the truth!
-
So?
And the UK police are sooo fragrant and squeeky clean arent they?
http://www.fmotl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6251
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2081199/Criminal-record-1k-officers-convictions-police.html
Googling brings up many more links
Unless you can bring up a direct and specific link or relevance between his private life and the Madeleine Mccann case, this thread is pretty pointless, unless it is to paint the Mccanns white somehow by painting Mr A black, doesnt work like that though
-
In my opinion Amaral should have been sacked from The PJ the minute he was convicted of that Fraud. He's a crook for Christ's sake.
And that fraud was only the beginning. At least, I hope it was.
-
In my opinion Amaral should have been sacked from The PJ the minute he was convicted of that Fraud. He's a crook for Christ's sake.
And that fraud was only the beginning. At least, I hope it was.
He should have been sacked the 4th May 2007, when he was made an Arguido, in the torture case.
A leopard never changes it spots, Eleanor!
-
In my opinion Amaral should have been sacked from The PJ the minute he was convicted of that Fraud. He's a crook for Christ's sake.
And that fraud was only the beginning. At least, I hope it was.
My links prove police officers are extremely rarely sacked....especially if the offence bears no relation to their performance in the job....same for Mps, Huhne was a liar, an adulterer, tried to cheat the system, got sent to prison, but no one faulted his work as an MP, as I said, pointless thread unless anyone can prove a link to the case
-
He should have been sacked the 4th May 2007, when he was made an Arguido, in the torture case.
A leopard never changes it spots, Eleanor!
One begins to wonder how he ever got into The PJ in the first place. But perhaps they were desperate if he was the best they could do. Him and his mates are a horror story. They are all Arguidos for some crime or another. And not a lot to do with their private lives either.
-
He should have been sacked the 4th May 2007, when he was made an Arguido, in the torture case.
A leopard never changes it spots, Eleanor!
You will of course provide a link to where he was involved in torture before or even in the LC case, he was found guilty of forging documents whatever that is supposed to mean......not the same as not reporting torture, he signed off his officers reports detailing how LC had thrown herself down the stairs, he was NOT THERE at the time, he signed off a report, that was his crime, you will have to provide evidence he KNEW that report was false and shouldnt have signed it off
Someone must have the judgement somewhere to show EXACTLY what he was found guilty of
-
One begins to wonder how he ever got into The PJ in the first place. But perhaps they were desperate if he was the best they could do. Him and his mates are a horror story. They are all Arguidos for some crime or another. And not a lot to do with their private lives either.
Email him and ask
8((()*/
-
One begins to wonder how he ever got into The PJ in the first place. But perhaps they were desperate if he was the best they could do. Him and his mates are a horror story. They are all Arguidos for some crime or another. And not a lot to do with their private lives either.
Only god knows.
I think its a bit of both on all of them, Eleanor.
-
Only god knows.
I think its a bit of both on all of them, Eleanor.
Did you save anything on his houses being repossessed for non payment of mortgage? That goes back a bit.
-
Did you save anything on his houses being repossessed for non payment of mortgage? That goes back a bit.
@)(++(*
Zzzzzzz
Like millions of people have had
and that has what to do with madeleine disppearing? Scraping of very very deep barrels now, carry on, its entertaining
-
Did you save anything on his houses being repossessed for non payment of mortgage? That goes back a bit.
I'll take a look, and post it if I saved it 8((()*/
-
I'll take a look, and post it if I saved it 8((()*/
And then there's his unpaid State Taxes. Such a lot of money for a Policeman to owe. Definitely not a good example to ordinary, honest folk.
-
Why don't you suggest to the Vatican the beatification of the McCann couple instead of losing your precious time hating a guy who does'nt pretend being a saint ?
-
An interesting thread DCI but I haven't yet been able to decipher it all.
Maybe you can give a short synopsis of what it was all about please?
-
Why don't you suggest to the Vatican the beatification of the McCann couple instead of losing your precious time hating a guy who does'nt pretend being a saint ?
I don't think that is going to happen Anne after the Vatican removed the case from their website.
-
I don't think that is going to happen Anne after the Vatican removed the case from their website.
The Vatican likely removed the case because the whole planet was already focusing on Madeleine. On the God topic, the pope traced the cross on a photo... On the financial one, Madeleine had a Fund, exclusively dedicated to her.
Thousands of kids have no voice. Sooner or later the Christian community would have protested. Legitimately.
-
I don't think that is going to happen Anne after the Vatican removed the case from their website.
John what do you mean by "the case" being removed from the website? Just a mentions of the case or actual material from the case files?
-
An interesting thread DCI but I haven't yet been able to decipher it all.
Maybe you can give a short synopsis of what it was all about please?
Let me suggest a short synopsis, John : hatred !
These posters are worried thinking one of these days the McCann twins will read on the Web that their parents' lack of imagination turned possible the disappearance of their sister. I'm worried too.
But I wish they could figure out also how Mr Amaral's daughters will be harmed reading those horrible accusations against their father. Actually one of them must know already.
This is a shame.
-
Let me suggest a short synopsis, John : hatred !
These posters are worried thinking one of these days the McCann twins will read on the Web that their parents' lack of imagination turned possible the disappearance of their sister. I'm worried too.
But I wish they could figure out also how Mr Amaral's daughters will be harmed reading those horrible accusations against their father. Actually one of them must know already.
This is a shame.
A point being missed here is that there are court documents that verify the accusations against Mr Amaral. It's not just speculation against him, proof exists.
As yet there is no proof (court documents) of the McCann's having anything to do with their daughters alleged death or that any of their friends were involved in any unsavoury sexually practices with children. But that is plastered all over the internet. If you want to talk of hate, then you need to look at how the McCann's have been treated. Time fold worse than any abuse directed at Mr Amaral. No one should be treated that way, not even Mr Amaral.
-
No one should be treated that way, not even Mr Amaral.
Then stop ! There's no other way to turn obsolete all the accusations towards the McCanns.
-
But I wish they could figure out also how Mr Amaral's daughters will be harmed reading those horrible accusations against their father.
Don't forget that Snr Amaral wrote a book accusing Kate and Gerry of knowing Madeleine is dead, concealing the fact of her death, concealing Madeleine's body, orchestrating a cover-up of 'abduction' to explain away (distinct from explain) her disappearance and (whether implicit or explicit) launching a fraudulent 'appeal' in their daughter's name.
How much respect did Snr Amaral show for the finer feelings of the McCanns' children in making those allegations?
It cuts both ways.
But I do agree it's horrible all round when children become dragged in to machinations that swirl around their parents.
Horrible but (sometimes) sadly inescapable ...
-
Then stop ! There's no other way to turn obsolete all the accusations towards the McCanns.
I have done nothing but emphasise valid points. Do you see any abuse from me toward Mr Amaral here? I can't help that there are court documents that verify the accusations against Mr Amaral unlike the McCann's who have no documentation proving their conviction/s.
-
But I wish they could figure out also how Mr Amaral's daughters will be harmed reading those horrible accusations against their father.
Don't forget that Snr Amaral wrote a book accusing Kate and Gerry of knowing Madeleine is dead, concealing the fact of her death, concealing Madeleine's body, orchestrating a cover-up of 'abduction' to explain away (distinct from explain) her disappearance and (whether implicit or explicit) launching a fraudulent 'appeal' in their daughter's name.
How much respect did Snr Amaral show for the finer feelings of the McCanns' children in making those allegations?
It cuts both ways.
But I do agree it's horrible all round when children become dragged in to machinations that swirl around their parents.
Horrible but (sometimes) sadly inescapable ...
Shall I remind you, Ferryman, the way Mr Amaral was treated in the tabloids ? Not only him, but the PJ cops in general, and the ambassador and the people !
Don't tell me the McCanns had nothing to do with this, because it is not true. It belonged to them to assume publicly the PJ was in charge and that searching Madeleine was The issue. Let insulting Portugal was like sawing the bough on which they were sitting.
If..
No, I'm not going to say : could it actually be they wanted the investigation to decline and die ?
It just passed my mind when I was writing this post. Now I have to think it over.
-
Shall I remind you, Ferryman, the way Mr Amaral was treated in the tabloids ? Not only him, but the PJ cops in general, and the ambassador and the people !
Don't tell me the McCanns had nothing to do with this, because it is not true. It belonged to them to assume publicly the PJ was in charge and that searching Madeleine was The issue. Let insulting Portugal was like sawing the bough on which they were sitting.
If..
No, I'm not going to say : could it actually be they wanted the investigation to decline and die ?
It just passed my mind when I was writing this post. Now I have to think it over.
I do actually partially agree with you that much (not all) the criticism directed at police work, and at Portugal in general, was unjust.
I confess that I have virtually zero sympathy for Amaral.
-
I do actually partially agree with you that much (not all) the criticism directed at police work, and at Portugal in general, was unjust.
I confess that I have virtually zero sympathy for Amaral.
This is your right ! Usually when I have no sympathy for someone I try to do without it, not for moral reasons, but because communication is then a real and tough challenge (often it goes nowhere...). That's what I tried to explain to Benice (where is she ?) : it's much more interesting to debate with somebody who doesn't share your opinion.
-
My take on this is that the police worked very hard, but Amaral was a poor leader.
He has self confessed that he decided by the day after the abduction that the Mccanns dunit; that Madeleine was dead.
All he was trying to find seems to have been evidence that could convict the Mccanns 8()(((@#
-
My take on this is that the police worked very hard, but Amaral was a poor leader.
He has self confessed that he decided by the day after the abduction that the Mccanns dunit; that Madeleine was dead.
All he was trying to find seems to have been evidence that could convict the Mccanns 8()(((@#
You will have to cite for this.
-
Oh, look it's a collaboration - obviously happier times....
A collaborative interview by Duarte Levy, Joana Morais, Astro and Mercedes
DL: At which point in time did you consider the McCanns to be suspects?
GA: Let’s see: In terms of suspicion, from the very first hour.
http://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.com.es/2009/02/duarte-levy-at-which-point-in-time-did.html
-
Oh, look it's a collaboration - obviously happier times....
A collaborative interview by Duarte Levy, Joana Morais, Astro and Mercedes
DL: At which point in time did you consider the McCanns to be suspects?
GA: Let’s see: In terms of suspicion, from the very first hour.
http://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.com.es/2009/02/duarte-levy-at-which-point-in-time-did.html
I daresay that was a forged interview, Mrs B ...
@)(++(*
-
I agree, Redblossom, Duarte who is not Levy by the way has totally been discredited centuries ago.
-
I agree, Redblossom, Duarte who is not Levy by the way has totally been discredited centuries ago.
If you mean Isabel Duarte, the one (and only) occasion she has been "defeated" is when she wasn't there to put a case ...
The ex-parte judgment overturning the injunction ...
-
I agree, Redblossom, Duarte who is not Levy by the way has totally been discredited centuries ago.
just hypocritical as ever to cherry pick, when it suits, either levy is reliable or he isnt, the papers and magazine are or not, mr grime is or not, mr amaral is or not, mrs fenn is or not, mr and mrs smith are or not, the courts are or not,etc etc ad infinitum, zzzzzz
In fact, on seeing discrepancies and having suspicions, mr Amaral would be unprofessional to ignore them early days, still there is no proof he said he thought on 4 may she was dead
-
If you mean Isabel Duarte, the one (and only) occasion she has been "defeated" is when she wasn't there to put a case ...
The ex-parte judgment overturning the injunction ...
pity mr amarals lawyers were not invited when they banned the book in SECRET in the first place, sneaky or what? Duarte and the mccanns had no place in the appeal court judgement, of course they appealed after it and got a flea in their ear, and rightly so
-
mr Amaral ... unprofessional
There's usually a nugget of truth in something you say ...
-
Here's Amaral's book http://frommybigdesk.blogspot.com.es/search/label/Amaral%20The%20Truth%20of%20The%20Lie%20Chapter%2003
Friday May 4th
This morning I am worried; something isn't right in the account of the events: the little girl allegedly disappeared at 10pm while she was sleeping close to her brother and her sister. They were alone in the apartment because their parents were dining with friends. A system of checks had been put in place by the adults. Every 30 minutes according to some - every quarter of an hour according to others -, someone went to have a look at the children. It is Madeleine's mother who realised she was gone and is immediately talking about abduction.
NB That's the morning of 4th May. The morning AFTER the disappearance. He has NOT visited the scene, not spoken to any witnesses, let alone the parents.
He then goes on - immediately concentrating on the parents.
We need information about the parents and their friends, to know who they are, what they do, if they have problems in their country, if the children were victims of abuse, if the family, neighbours, friends could have noticed any suspicious behaviour, what are their jobs, if they work full-time, etc. Is any member of their family depressed or suffered from depression in the past? Do the couple maintain good relationships? Are they implicated in serious litigation? Do they have enemies? For what reason?
This is NOT equivalent to attempting to rule out the parents, this is attempting to implicate the parents. IMO.
-
Oh My Goodness. That exert from Amaral's book sounds very much like his own life. And then he was made an Arguido on the same day.
Could this be a case of transferring his own inadequacies onto others?
-
We need information about the parents and their friends, to know who they are, what they do, if they have problems in their country, if the children were victims of abuse, if the family, neighbours, friends could have noticed any suspicious behaviour, what are their jobs, if they work full-time, etc. Is any member of their family depressed or suffered from depression in the past? Do the couple maintain good relationships? Are they implicated in serious litigation? Do they have enemies? For what reason?
Now that is pure Stasi - interview anyone who knows the accused and hope at least one of them, fearful of contamination and therefore open to 'reason', will then provide the incriminating evidence required to convict. The whole situation is engineered to the premise 'guilty unless the accused can prove otherwise' never 'innocent until proven guilty.' One would hope that such practices were a thing of the past - the totalitarian left or right wing regimes having been removed, but even when a country becomes a democracy such ideologies are still in force especially in the police and army. It takes time for this attitude to change.
-
Oh My Goodness. That exert from Amaral's book sounds very much like his own life. And then he was made an Arguido on the same day.
Could this be a case of transferring his own inadequacies onto others?
Does anyone think that the reason Amaral chose to take on the Madeleine case was because of Cipriano and the knowledge of what he and his thugs had done to her? Was it an attempt, albeit belatedly, to repair his damaged and flagging career? Was he desperate to make an impression and secure a conviction at all costs even if it meant innocent people going to jail?
-
Does anyone think that the reason Amaral chose to take on the Madeleine case was because of Cipriano and the knowledge of what he and his thugs had done to her? Was it an attempt, albeit belatedly, to repair his damaged and flagging career? Was he desperate to make an impression and secure a conviction at all costs even if it meant innocent people going to jail?
Good question. Maybe that thought did cross his mind, who knows, only he could answer that one. It wouldn't be the first time innocent people have been deliberately set up and I doubt it will be the last. it happens in all countries. I know for instance of at least two such cases that happened to friends of mine. They did end up in court, both were convicted and then the convictions were quashed on appeal when the appeals judge was exceptionally scathing of the police and the methods used.
-
Does anyone think that the reason Amaral chose to take on the Madeleine case was because of Cipriano and the knowledge of what he and his thugs had done to her? Was it an attempt, albeit belatedly, to repair his damaged and flagging career? Was he desperate to make an impression and secure a conviction at all costs even if it meant innocent people going to jail?
I suspect that this is the fact of the matter. He had actually obtained a conviction in The Cipriano Case, albeit under very dubious circumstances, but the charge of aiding torture was not going to do him a lot of good.
And then there was always The Book. One of his counterparts had made a lot of money writing a book about Joana, so this was his chance to write a book about Madeleine, and prove what a good copper he was by getting a conviction against The McCanns.
-
Does anyone think that the reason Amaral chose to take on the Madeleine case was because of Cipriano and the knowledge of what he and his thugs had done to her? Was it an attempt, albeit belatedly, to repair his damaged and flagging career? Was he desperate to make an impression and secure a conviction at all costs even if it meant innocent people going to jail?
Did Amaral have a choice in taking on the co-ordination of this case? Surely police officers don't get to choose their cases - they are simply assigned them?
Would like to know the answer to that question.
-
Did Amaral have a choice in taking on the co-ordination of this case? Surely police officers don't get to choose their cases - they are simply assigned them?
Would like to know the answer to that question.
According to Sofia, they were about to go on holiday when Amaral volunteered for the job. This did not go down well at all.
-
Did Amaral have a choice in taking on the co-ordination of this case? Surely police officers don't get to choose their cases - they are simply assigned them?
Would like to know the answer to that question.
There is NO doubt that he was comparing this case to the Cipriano case, he admits as much himself. Again, an extract from his book, CH 3.
Three years before, we had dealt with a similar case, a few kilometres from Praia da Luz. We had not been informed at the time of that disappearance, and we are convinced that if the investigation could have been started immediately we would have been able to discover some physical evidence. The police response is fundamental. The first 72 hours are essential. [/i]
http://frommybigdesk.blogspot.com.es/search/label/Amaral%20The%20Truth%20of%20The%20Lie%20Chapter%2003
ETA Please also note that he is admitting that they did NOT have any physical evidence in the Cipriano case, all based on evidence such as "she wore a black blouse" as mentioned above.
-
Did Amaral have a choice in taking on the co-ordination of this case? Surely police officers don't get to choose their cases - they are simply assigned them?
Would like to know the answer to that question.
I don't see where any element of choice would be applicable, either.
Were there any other coordinators in the PJ district at the time, or was he the only one?
Who coordinated other cases at that time? Presumably, crime didn't stop in the entire area because of one missing child...
-
I don't see where any element of choice would be applicable, either.
Were there any other coordinators in the PJ district at the time, or was he the only one?
Who coordinated other cases at that time? Presumably, crime didn't stop in the entire area because of one missing child...
Or because one Inspector was due to go on holiday. Let's face it, he wanted the job. Why else give up his holiday?
-
It is Fraud to deliberately cheat someone out of a large sum of money. Going to The Civil Court was the easiest way to recover the money.
-
///
-
No ones business is it?
And nothing to do with the disappearance of MM whatsoever on any way shape or form
Ergo totally irrelevant and a simple derailing tactic to focus peoples attention away from what matters and it aint Amarals bleeding finances or familial relationships
Bbl
8((()*/
-
Oh, I think Amaral's finances has quite a lot to do with it, he entered into a commercial enterprise with a view to earn MONEY on the case, it's in his FINANCIAL interest that the McCanns are guilty. His previous dishonest behaviour (not to mention having been found guilty of giving false testimony to the courts) is indicative of a deceitful nature.
-
Goncalo Amaral was in serious debt way back in 2002 due to his own dishonesty. Who would trust a policeman like that?
-
And then there's his unpaid State Taxes. Such a lot of money for a Policeman to owe. Definitely not a good example to ordinary, honest folk.
Goodness me, you would have thought something would have been paid, towards this dept.
http://.....2.forumotion.co.uk/t3510-who-s-a-naughty-girl-then-who-has-been-named-and-shamed
Who's a naughty girl then? Is Sofia a naughty girl?
Little birdies are getting cleverer. One sent me a little message this morning.
It was a link to a site in Portugal.
Maybe its a throwback to totalitarianism? Maybe its something the Tories will do next in the UK? But naming and shaming debtors is currently done in Portugal.
In that message was a list of people who owe a lot of money to the Customs and Excise people in Portugal.
And guess whose name appears there?
That's right.
ALEXANDRA SOFIA DE SOUSA MANJUA LEAL who currently seems to owe between 7,500 and 25,000 euros in tax.
http://www.e-financas.gov.pt/de/pubdiv/de-devedores.html
(http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/17/02/13/53/sofia_10.jpg)
-
She was also jointly involved in the Judgement against her husband when they ripped off his brother, her brother in law.
Quite a pair are these two.
-
She was also jointly involved in the Judgement against her husband when they ripped off his brother, her brother in law.
Quite a pair are these two.
Ripping off his brother eh ? Despicable behaviour. Deserves a jail sentence no less @)(++(*
-
Ripping off his brother eh ? Despicable behaviour. Deserves a jail sentence no less @)(++(*
So that's OK is it ?
Have you any idea how much the brother was ripped off for?
I know it was a huge amount, but others on here will know the exact amount
-
So that's OK is it ?
Have you any idea how much the brother was ripped off for?
I know it was a huge amount, but others on here will know the exact amount
No it's not okay to rip off your brother sadie. Anyone who defrauds their own families are despicable and deserve nothing but our contempt, don't you agree ?
-
And guess whose name appears there?
That's right.
ALEXANDRA SOFIA DE SOUSA MANJUA LEAL who currently seems to owe between 7,500 and 25,000 euros in tax.
http://www.e-financas.gov.pt/de/pubdiv/de-devedores.html
(http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/17/02/13/53/sofia_10.jpg)
So what? Millions of people have been in the same boat. Next!
-
No it's not okay to rip off your brother sadie. Anyone who defrauds their own families are despicable and deserve nothing but our contempt, don't you agree ?
A most reprehensible and immoral business. What is worse though is when prosecutors pursue such a case contrary to the facts.
-
A most reprehensible and immoral business. What is worse though is when prosecutors pursue such a case contrary to the facts.
Have you any reason, John, to suspect facts were twisted by the prosecution against Mr Amaral ?
-
A most reprehensible and immoral business. What is worse though is when prosecutors pursue such a case contrary to the facts.
Precisely John. Though to be honest I'm surprised at your support for Aamaral, surprised but pleasantly so.
-
I don't think John is referring to Amaral, but rather to his own case.
-
I don't think John is referring to Amaral, but rather to his own case.
Really ? What case ?
-
Have you any reason, John, to suspect facts were twisted by the prosecution against Mr Amaral ?
None that I am aware of in Señor Amaral's case but I certainly know of a former female Scottish prosecutor who was quite capable of lying to a court in order to invent a crime which never existed.
Just for the record, her name was Joan Guy.
-
But what for ?
-
Madeleine ?????? 8-)(--)
-
None that I am aware of in Señor Amaral's case but I certainly know of a former female Scottish prosecutor who was quite capable of lying to a court in order to invent a crime which never existed.
Just for the record, her name was Joan Guy.
You seem to have the same luck as the McCanns when it comes to matters judicial John.
-
In what way?