UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Mr Gray on July 15, 2013, 06:36:19 PM
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I know this was not available at PDL but even after the abduction it was still on the website for other mark warner resorts
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Any baby listening service provided by an hotel or aparthotel is not as good as the parents checking themselves.
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Any baby listening service provided by an hotel or aparthotel is not as good as the parents checking themselves.
No , what would have been better was a babysitter and a locked apartment.
Didn't happen, did it ?
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No , what would have been better was a babysitter and a locked apartment.
Didn't happen, did it ?
I dont think you can be a parent, Stephen
No way would i allow a stranger to babysit my child. I know that others feel the same way.
More abuse of chlidren being baby sat by "friends or paid people" than ever was a chance of Madeleine vanishing as she did.
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I dont think you can be a parent, Stephen
No way would i allow a stranger to babysit my child. I know that others feel the same way.
More abuse of chlidren being baby sat by "friends or paid people" than ever was a chance of Madeleine vanishing as she did.
You really don't live in the real world.
So leaving children unprotected in an unlocked residence is good child care ?
If you think that , I doubt your sanity.
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You really don't live in the real world.
So leaving children unprotected in an unlocked residence is good child care ?
If you think that , I doubt your sanity.
Then you'd have to also question the sanity of everyone who offers / uses a listening service in "child-friendly" accommodation anywhere.
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Then you'd have to also question the sanity of everyone who offers / uses a listening service in "child-friendly" accommodation anywhere.
No system is perfect.
You have to rely on the check systems in this country including CRB.
However, ANYONE who thinks leaving children in unlocked accommodation in another country is 'safe' is clearly delusional.
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No system is perfect.
You have to rely on the check systems in this country including CRB.
However, ANYONE who thinks leaving children in unlocked accommodation in another country is 'safe' is clearly delusional.
If you do regular checks on your own kids, what's the difference?
Is leaving kids in the care of babysitters who may not be UK-CRB-vetted any safer?
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If you do regular checks on your own kids, what's the difference?
Is leaving kids in the care of babysitters who may not be UK-CRB-vetted any safer?
You're not answering the key point.
Was leaving 3 children in an unlocked apartment SAFE ?
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You're not answering the key point.
Was leaving 3 children in an unlocked apartment SAFE ?
Would leaving children in the care of some young stranger have been safer?
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Was leaving 3 children in an unlocked apartment SAFE ?
It's not only 3 children left alone in unlocked strange place, but 2 in cots + 1 in a normal bed and knowing parents can be out.
Comparatively the T/OB's eldest, the only other child to be in a bed, was in a double locked flat to make sure she wouldn't wander off.
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You're not answering the key point.
Was leaving 3 children in an unlocked apartment SAFE ?
Would it have been acceptable if the apt was locked?
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Would leaving children in the care of some young stranger have been safer?
They could have used one of the staff from the creche as a babysitter, or someone recommended by the complex, so why didn't they ?
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They could have used one of the staff from the creche as a babysitter, or someone recommended by the complex, so why didn't they ?
A listening service was available in other resorts, but not this one. They were doing the equivalent themselves. Until that fateful night, the system had worked.
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A listening service was available in other resorts, but not this one. They were doing the equivalent themselves. Until that fateful night, the system had worked.
Still diverting. They could have employed someone as a babysitter. No excuses.
Leaving children in an unlocked apartment and with infrequent visits, for several nights whilst socializing, INEXCUSABLE.
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They could have used one of the staff from the creche as a babysitter, or someone recommended by the complex, so why didn't they ?
In my case it would be because they would be 'strangers' recommended by 'strangers.' No way would I allow anyone who I'd only just met and hardly spoken to spend hours alone in my home with my children. And no amount of appropriate 'credentials' would make any difference to me.
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They let Madeleine go sailing with total strangers (the skippers) without being present on the beach and didn't remember it happened on that Thursday morning.
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In my case it would be because they would be 'strangers' recommended by 'strangers.' No way would I allow anyone who I'd only just met and hardly spoken to spend hours alone in my home with my children. And no amount of appropriate 'credentials' would make any difference to me.
By that logic then very few people would ever have a babysitter because 'they are dangerous and you never know what they might do'.
Then of course, being a 'family holiday', they could have ate and drank at the apartment. Funnily enough other people do that as well.
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Still diverting. They could have employed someone as a babysitter. No excuses.
Leaving children in an unlocked apartment and with infrequent visits, for several nights whilst socializing, INEXCUSABLE.
So was the baby listening service that was offered by Mark Warner in other resorts also INEXCUSABLE.
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So was the baby listening service that was offered by Mark Warner in other resorts also INEXCUSABLE.
We aren't talking about anywhere else.
It's what the Mccanns failed to do, i.e. provide CARE for their children, and that they singularly failed to do.
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We aren't talking about anywhere else.
It's what the Mccanns failed to do, i.e. provide CARE for their children, and that they singularly failed to do.
So you don't criticise other parents who have used a similar service, just the McCanns. you seem to have an obsession.
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Still diverting. They could have employed someone as a babysitter. No excuses.
Leaving children in an unlocked apartment and with infrequent visits, for several nights whilst socializing, INEXCUSABLE.
Everyone makes different decisions. I wouldn't have left kids with a babysitter I didn't know. The creche idea doesn't seem practical with 3 young kids and I'm not sure who found it ideal.
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By that logic then very few people would ever have a babysitter because 'they are dangerous and you never know what they might do'.
Then of course, being a 'family holiday', they could have ate and drank at the apartment. Funnily enough other people do that as well.
Not so Stephen, I had two completely trustworthy babysitters. One was my mum and the other was my best friend - who I'd known since we were children.
Many parents do choose to stay in their apartments or take their children out with them - but thousands of others don't and they sign up for the Baby Listening Service, or rely on Baby alarms or do their own checking. Thus it has ever been Stephen - at least as far back as Butlins to my knowledge and no amount of deflecting by you will alter that fact.
So when are you going to condemn all the other hundreds of thousands of parents who did and still do exactly the same as the McCanns when on holiday?
In fact I would have expected you to have been even more critical about the parents who still choose to do this - even though they know what happened to Madeleine. Personally I find it quite shocking.
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A child wakes up, calls mum/dad, no answer, feels thirsty, gets out of bed, goes to the kitchen, doesn't see an empty bottle of Sauvignon left close to the door, stumbles and breaks it, tries to pick it up, seizes a thorn of glass, bleeds silently and faints to death.
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A child wakes up, calls mum/dad, no answer, feels thirsty, gets out of bed, goes to the kitchen, doesn't see an empty bottle of Sauvignon left close to the door, stumbles and breaks it, tries to pick it up, seizes a thorn of glass, bleeds silently and faints to death.
Good imagination Anne
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A child wakes up, calls mum/dad, no answer, feels thirsty, gets out of bed, goes to the kitchen, doesn't see an empty bottle of Sauvignon left close to the door, stumbles and breaks it, tries to pick it up, seizes a thorn of glass, bleeds silently and faints to death.
So that's what happened then ?
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So that's what happened then ?
Don't know, but it could. It happened to my little boy, but I was close by and I screamed, I still remember the sound of it, and it stopped him.
I was guilty, bottle on the floor and a toddler !
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Don't know, but it could. It happened to my little boy, but I was close by and I screamed, I still remember the sound of it, and it stopped him.
I was guilty, bottle on the floor and a toddler !
Yeah, right.
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This is a silly thread
We all know that, in truth, our babes are our own responsibility
'Listening services' my arse
We took care our kids ourselves when they were little ... like most everyone else does
Please ... let's not pretend that the McCann's 'childcare' regime was , somehow 'normal'
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This is a silly thread
We all know that, in truth, our babes are our own responsibility
'Listening services' my ar..
We took care our kids ourselves when they were little ... like most everyone else does
Please ... let's not pretend that the McCann's 'childcare' regime was , somehow 'normal'
the fact that MW promoted babylistening on it's website...the fact that british families have been doing this for the past 50/60 years shows it is normal. Not only normal.... but as I have never heard of an adverse incident over the past 50 years, apart from the McCanns, relatively safe.
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This is a silly thread
We all know that, in truth, our babes are our own responsibility
'Listening services' my ar..
We took care our kids ourselves when they were little ... like most everyone else does
Please ... let's not pretend that the McCann's 'childcare' regime was , somehow 'normal'
I completely agree.
What the mccanns did, was arrogant, stupid and lead to the disappearance of Madeleine.
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I completely agree.
What the mccanns did, was arrogant, stupid and lead to the disappearance of Madeleine.
So you keep saying, but never the same criticism of all the thousands of other parents who did and still do the same. In fact never even an acknowledgement that they or the Baby Listening service exist anywhere. How odd.
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So you keep saying, but never the same criticism of all the thousands of other parents who did and still do the same. In fact never even an acknowledgement that they or the Baby Listening service exist anywhere. How odd.
So do you have statistics for people who go out and leave 3 very young children by themselves in unlocked accommodation whilst out wining and dining ?
I also wonder how many people would never dream of doing what the Mccanns did or have done that.
I also wonder how many case in the UK there are of people being prosecuted for doing what the Mccanns have done, though of course many hearings of this nature are held behind closed doors and never see the light of day.
As to the baby listening service, what relevance does this have ?
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So do you have statistics for people who go out and leave 3 very young children by themselves in unlocked accommodation whilst out wining and dining ?
I also wonder how many people would never dream of doing what the Mccanns did or have done that.
I also wonder how many case in the UK there are of people being prosecuted for doing what the Mccanns have done, though of course many hearings of this nature are held behind closed doors and never see the light of day.
As to the baby listening service, what relevance does this have ?
Why do you need statistics, the very fact that the Baby Listening service is offered in holiday resorts is proof that it is used and even more importantly - proof that there is a demand for it.
I'm sure there are lots of people who wouldn't dream of doing what the McCanns did - but that's their choice. Different people make different choices.
The Baby Listening service is legal, otherwise it would not be allowed to exist. The McCanns duplicated that service with a superior one - where instead of just listening at doors they could actually go into the apartments.
IMO Suggesting that they should be prosecuted is like saying the loving mother of a child who drowned in the bath because it was left unattended for a while should be prosecuted - or that parents of children who wander off for any amount of reasons and drown in garden pools should be prosecuted. They are not because it is recognised as 'human error 'Stephen - and we are all capable of it - including the McCanns.