UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => The kidnapping and shooting/murder of Anni Dewani while on her honeymoon in South Africa. Trial of Shrien Dewani was held in Cape Town, SA. => Topic started by: Sherlock Holmes on October 13, 2013, 12:46:17 AM
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Lawyers for Dewani are attempting to overturn a recent ruling for Dewani to be extradited to South Africa, by appealing to the CPS to assemble a trial in the UK.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/21/shrien-dewani-uk-trial
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One disadvantage of a British trial for the Dewani family would be that, having requested it, they would have to accept and acknowledge any verdict of a British jury as correct.
If Dewani were to be found guilty at the hands of a South African judge, he could dismiss the verdict as coming from an alleged 'kangaroo court'.
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I dont understand why his lawyers think the CPS would want or be able to build a case in the first place....could they? Wouldnt it then be a SA/UK colloboration?
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Ridiculous demand. The crime occurred in South Africa. Any trial has to be there.
I totally agree...just yet more pontification and time wasting.
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I dont understand why his lawyers think the CPS would want or be able to build a case in the first place....could they? Wouldnt it then be a SA/UK colloboration?
Dewani's lawyers are obviously desperate to keep him as far away from South Africa as possible for as long as possible, but it's hard to understand how a trial in the UK would actually work and why SA would be willing to hand over jurisdiction.
As John says, just another stalling tactic.
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Sorry SH missed your post...I dint see it as possible either, pretty unprecedented too
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Dewani's lawyers are obviously desperate to keep him as far away from South Africa as possible for as long as possible, but it's hard to understand how a trial in the UK would actually work and why SA would be willing to hand over jurisdiction.
As John says, just another stalling tactic.
Isn't there an extradition agreement between South Africa and Britain?
If that's the case and a trial occurs in South Africa in his absence all he has to do is to avoid countries that have extradition agreements with SA. Otherwise I don't understand his request unless he is innocent and believes that in the UK he has any chance to prove it.
I don't know the case, but for the little I have read he doesn't sound very innocent. Probably he is attempting to be tried in the Uk because he would have a lighter sentence. I don't see how that could be possible - as an above poster said, the crime was committed in SA, it must be tried there (unfortunately for him).
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Dewani's legal team appears to have been successful in petitioning for another UK hearing on his extradition status, delaying his possible extradition to SA for several months longer - or more:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/honeymoon-murder-suspect-shrien-dewani-wins-extradition-hearing-8896846.html
And perhaps the following topic deserves a separate thread. Here is a short but informative article on the failures of the South African justice system in apprehending Dewani, which have led to the current state of affairs:
http://www.iol.co.za/news/sa-on-trial-in-dewani-extradition-case-1.1598618#.Um8DUnCsjLQ
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There is a dedicated group following the case if you require further information. 13th December there is another court hearing. But most importantly marks the third year since Anni's death 13 th November, tomorrow
I'm sure anyone who wishes to visit the facebook group to leave a note of condolence or keep up todate with the proceedings would be most welcome.
As it stands at the moment, Shrien Dewani is detained under the mental health act on a treatment section with a court restriction order (read condition of bail) Although NOT FIT TO PLEA, he goes home daily which is immediately opposite the community unit that he is sectioned to, but spends, as it would seem most of his day in a campervan, which it is understood he\family owns which he also had whilst in the Fromeside, secure unit.
https://www.facebook.com/Justice4Anni?fref=ts
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I'd agree, in theory, that any trial should be where the crime took place.
However, someone on the Panorama programme thought that it would make sense for the SA police/prosecutor to question him first in the UK, and to then decide - based on their assessment - whether there are sufficient grounds for prosecution.
If that is feasible, I'd find that to be a sensible step.
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I'd agree, in theory, that any trial should be where the crime took place.
However, someone on the Panorama programme thought that it would make sense for the SA police/prosecutor to question him first in the UK, and to then decide - based on their assessment - whether there are sufficient grounds for prosecution.
If that is feasible, I'd find that to be a sensible step.
I don't think, sadly, that the Panorama programme in question was regarded as being in any way balanced. The BBC was accused in many quarters of putting together a trial by media.
The bottom line is that as the crime was committed in South Africa and is already being dealt with by SA authorities, SA authorities have the right to press for extradition. An d this is most probably what they will continue to do.
SA is very much aware of the fact that its legal and prison systems are viewed as substandard by most of the western world. The country is very much under pressure to defend its 'reputation'. Any agreement whereby jurisdiction of the case was handed over in part to Britain, or where Dewani was permitted to serve in a British jail or mental institution, would be an admission by SA of problems within the SA system and the unacceptability of prison conditions there. SA is anxious to downplay these charges and will continue to seek Dewani's extradition.
Another reason why SA is keen to try Dewani is that his conviction would define the crime as one that, conceptually at least, was foreign born, and not a function of the violent crime statistic that exists in SA. SA nationals are already in jail for their role in the murder. Convicting Dewani as the mastermind behind the crime somewhat detracts from the bad PR for SA that results from this case.
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Isn't there an extradition agreement between South Africa and Britain?
If that's the case and a trial occurs in South Africa in his absence all he has to do is to avoid countries that have extradition agreements with SA. Otherwise I don't understand his request unless he is innocent and believes that in the UK he has any chance to prove it.
I don't know the case, but for the little I have read he doesn't sound very innocent. Probably he is attempting to be tried in the Uk because he would have a lighter sentence. I don't see how that could be possible - as an above poster said, the crime was committed in SA, it must be tried there (unfortunately for him).
He is playing the mental illness card as an attempt to circumvent the extradition rules.
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He is playing the mental illness card as an attempt to circumvent the extradition rules.
But the mental illness is somehow proved, isn't it ? Is it a consequence of Anni's murder or was he already mentally ill before ?
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But the mental illness is somehow proved, isn't it ? Is it a consequence of Anni's murder or was he already mentally ill before ?
It's a good question isn't it. I can't find anything offical written about his mental state before all this happened.
Certainly it is believable that the stress of the events in South Africa and their aftermath could have resulted in post-traumatic stress disorder and depression (which is what certain doctors have diagnosed). He has also been given different medications for the depression, some of which have had an adverse effect.
If we also consider the fact that by all accounts for the years preceding his marriage he was engaged in a secret homosexual life and at great pains to cover the fact up for fear of disgracing his family, we have something that would have caused a build up of anxiety over the years that could easily end up having a severely detrimental impact on his mental state. (This issue has been written about extensively from Freud til today). Added to which, in this case, intimate details of his past and the fact that he was covering it up are now in the public domain, which must cause him considerable discomfort.
If he DID kill his wife (no conclusive proof yet, of course) it demonstrates what a narcissist he truly is - entrapping Anni for the purpose of being seen to have an attractive woman by his side, then getting rid of her when she began to realise that all was not well in the bedroom. This is full-blown Narcissistic Personality Disorder to its utmost extent - the person goes as far as to kill if the other party doesn't fit into their picture.
Such a narcissist would typically focus on his own traumas with regard to the situation, and this is exactly what we are seeing now, with attention being placed on his mental anguish and the problems he would be likely to face in a South African jail, to the exclusion of any consideration for the concerns for his late wife's family; and also to the temporary exclusion, if he is arguing that he his innocent and that therefore others are guilty, of any path toward justice being embarked upon by the court.
A pretty disturbed person. So it is likely that when his lawyers are playing the mental illness card they happen to be speaking the truth - and underlining his narcissism and extending the legal process along with it.
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It's a good question isn't it. I can't find anything offical written about his mental state before all this happened.
Certainly it is believable that the stress of the events in South Africa and their aftermath could have resulted in post-traumatic stress disorder and depression (which is what certain doctors have diagnosed). He has also been given different medications for the depression, some of which have had an adverse effect.
If we also consider the fact that by all accounts for the years preceding his marriage he was engaged in a secret homosexual life and at great pains to cover the fact up for fear of disgracing his family, we have something that would have caused a build up of anxiety over the years that could easily end up having a severely detrimental impact on his mental state. (This issue has been written about extensively from Freud til today). Added to which, in this case, intimate details of his past and the fact that he was covering it up are now in the public domain, which must cause him considerable discomfort.
If he DID kill his wife (no conclusive proof yet, of course) it demonstrates what a narcissist he truly is - entrapping Anni for the purpose of being seen to have an attractive woman by his side, then getting rid of her when she began to realise that all was not well in the bedroom. This is full-blown Narcissistic Personality Disorder to its utmost extent - the person goes as far as to kill if the other party doesn't fit into their picture.
Such a narcissist would typically focus on his own traumas with regard to the situation, and this is exactly what we are seeing now, with attention being placed on his mental anguish and the problems he would be likely to face in a South African jail, to the exclusion of any consideration for the concerns for his late wife's family; and also to the temporary exclusion, if he is arguing that he his innocent and that therefore others are guilty, of any path toward justice being embarked upon by the court.
A pretty disturbed person. So it is likely that when his lawyers are playing the mental illness card they happen to be speaking the truth - and underlining his narcissism and extending the legal process along with it.
What lends credence to this closet gay theory?
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Lots of gays marry for the sake of being married and have not people snooping in their life. Many marry women with whom they get on well and even have children. Usually the wives know let them have a double life.
I'm not convinced he planned what happened. He certainly planned something that became very wrong.
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Lots of gays marry for the sake of being married and have not people snooping in their life. Many marry women with whom they get on well and even have children. Usually the wives know let them have a double life.
I'm not convinced he planned what happened. He certainly planned something that became very wrong.
Anni didn't look the sort of woman that would agree to live a double life with a gay husband, but we don't know if he was gay....
And I agree with you that he didn't plan what happened, or better how it ended. But I'm inclined to believe that he felt pressured enough to get rid of her, especially when it was referred that immediately after the marriage Anni was already considering divorce. She would have left him in a matter of weeks....
There was definitely a plan with those criminals that were arrested, but I think they didn't live up to the arrangement and made a mess that led to their arrest and to his exposition.
The Panorama documentary, as usual, in order to bash South African judicial system, tried to diminish the eventual involvement of the victim's husband in her murder.
I don't know how the British and South African legal systems work towards nonimputability by cause of mental illness, but post traumatic stress and psychotic episodes can only count if they happen during a murder event. However extreme depression or anxiety, if incapacitating (which would have to be certified by psychiatric experts) can be used to avoid the presence of the individual at the trial sessions, but in that case he would be represented by a lawyer.
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What lends credence to this closet gay theory?
There seems to have been a great deal of talk about it in the press (not any kind of proof, I know), which has been substantiated by at least one man coming forward claiming to have had a relationship with him.
As I mentioned on another thread, I was closely connected in real life with a case where a man tricked a woman into marrying him in order to cover up his homosexual lifestyle (mainly for 'religious' reasons). She survived with her life but only just - and still fears for it after divorce. Many other parallels between these two cases; so many it's almost spooky. Again, not proof. But that's the main reason I'm interested in the case.
PS> Sorry it has taken me so long to answer your post, Carana. Can't believe it is a month since I was last on this thread. Holidays, busy life and all that. Apologies again! bw, Sherlock.