UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: Amazon on October 13, 2013, 09:12:57 AM
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2456759/Jeremy-Bamber-Do-macabre-pictures-prove-innocent.html
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2456759/Jeremy-Bamber-Do-macabre-pictures-prove-innocent.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2456759/Jeremy-Bamber-Do-macabre-pictures-prove-innocent.html)
Blood spots !!! pfft... methinks this is yet more clutching at straws by Bamber's lawyers - how do you define spotless in relation to Sheila Caffell's feet ?
The latest photo claims to show blood on the sole of one foot, which, even if it is blood can easily be explained in that Sheila was either led or dragged unwillingly from her own bedroom into her parents' bedroom by the assailant (or made her own way there). To reach the position where her body was found, she would have to have passed her mother's blood-stained body near the bedroom door and the resulting stains on the carpet. Blood spots on the floor on Nevill Bamber's side of the bed might have been his, as he was shot in the face in the bedroom before making his way downstairs to the kitchen where he was finally dispatched.
Blood from either source could have been picked up on Sheila's sole(s)... it might even be her own blood if she was standing whilst being shot for the first time.
So we have learned nothing new that isn't already known, just more hot air over a hazy photo of what may only be minor bruising & dirt and not blood after all !
All the public comments below the article show how people who haven't thoroughly researched the case can be easily misled.
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=B907aaDw7Ec
8)--))
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Thanks for posting the news report Amazon. I read it in the Mail yesterday and came to the same conclusions straw clutching and also I'm not even sure that is blood on Sheila's soles. Like you say it could be dirt or bruising.
ETA: An apt video choice by shona!
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I thought Andrew Hunter had to stop his campaigning for Bamber due to illness. Likely he has been taken in and manipulated by Bamber like so many others before him.
Small spots of blood (if they are that and I wouldn't put it past his supporters to photoshop it anyway) don't prove that she got up and walked through trails or pools of blood anyway. And it's extremely distasteful not to mention cynical for Hunter to associate Bamber with genuine corruption and miscarriages of justice such as the Hillsborough investigation and the Birmingham 6 and Guildford 4 cases.
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Two tiny abrasions on the ball of her foot + a bit of dirt or shadow on the arch = CCRC application no.3 (http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/1821/5qq.gif)
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Two tiny abrasions on the ball of her foot + a bit of dirt or shadow on the arch = CCRC application no.3 (http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/1821/5qq.gif)
Well, they thought the pigskin tests were worthy of a CCRC referral. More straw clutching to be done. To be fair Bamber may as well give it a go, there's hardly anything to lose.
Have I got this wrong, or are they now trying to say that Sheila COULD have shot herself with the silencer on? After all those years of claiming the silencer was planted (or Sheila's blood got in there when she mistook it for a tampon because she was mad-I kid you not) now they want to admit the silencer was used?
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Blood spots !!! pfft... methinks this is yet more clutching at straws by Bamber's lawyers - how do you define spotless in relation to Sheila Caffell's feet ?
The latest photo claims to show blood on the sole of one foot, which, even if it is blood can easily be explained in that Sheila was either led or dragged unwillingly from her own bedroom into her parents' bedroom by the assailant (or made her own way there). To reach the position where her body was found, she would have to have passed her mother's blood-stained body near the bedroom door and the resulting stains on the carpet. Blood spots on the floor on Nevill Bamber's side of the bed might have been his, as he was shot in the face in the bedroom before making his way downstairs to the kitchen where he was finally dispatched.
Blood from either source could have been picked up on Sheila's sole(s)... it might even be her own blood if she was standing whilst being shot for the first time.
So we have learned nothing new that isn't already known, just more hot air over a hazy photo of what may only be minor bruising & dirt and not blood after all !
All the public comments below the article show how people who haven't thoroughly researched the case can be easily misled.
I think this fits in with my view as to why Sheila was found where she was. I think whilst the assailant was downstairs killing Mr Bamber, Sheila fled to the master bedroom to comfort/be with Mrs Bamber, the assailant then came back up stairs and all Sheila could do was run to the far side of the room being the furthest place she could go.
She would not have had copious amounts of Mrs Bamber's blood on her feet as she would have tried to avoid stepping in it - as I think we all would - but a couple of spots could reasonably have found their way on the soles of her feet.
I guess the young children were killed first. Then Mrs Bamber shot, then Mr bamber shot and partially injured before running downstairs where he was killed a short time later and finally Sheila killed.
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You've got it in one, jacknch.
That's the conclusion most of the original members here have reached - although there are differing views as to how Sheila Caffell finished up where she did. Your theory could be right, but an alternative one is that if she was the last to be woken by the racket in the bedroom, on the stairs or in the kitchen, she may have opened her own bedroom door to see her mother lying on the floor, immediately went to check if Nicholas and Daniel were safe, and then heard the intruder return upstairs. She might have assumed it was a burglar rather than her brother, so tried to conceal herself in the Box Room between the twins' and parents' bedrooms, or entered the latter from there and tried to hide by crouching at the side of the double bed.
If Sheila was dopey/drowsy from the effects of haloperidol, then she may have been easy to control and lead into the master bedroom, but why do that when it was simpler to shoot her in her own bedroom ? I could be wrong, but that's why I prefer the hide-and-seek theory.
Blood spots were found on the landing carpet so it's possible those two tiny ones (if that's what they are) on Sheila's sole were picked up there, but to inflate it into new proof that she killed her family is laughable.
Whichever route Sheila used the end result was the same - murder not suicide.
(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/3708/uch6.jpg)
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Hi,
Just thought i would chuck my tuppence worth in.
I feel that the photo is very interesting. I thought that Vanezis stated in the post mortem that her feet were clean. The photo contradicts that.
This is obviously not grounds for an appeal as there is no evident order of who was shot first, second and so on. Sheila simply could have walked on blood splatter from any of the other victims wounds.
For me personally though, i had always assumed that Sheila was the first to be shot. This photo seems to dispel that theory and points to the final resting place of her body to be quite odd.
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Hi,
Just thought i would chuck my tuppence worth in.
I feel that the photo is very interesting. I thought that Vanezis stated in the post mortem that her feet were clean. The photo contradicts that.
This is obviously not grounds for an appeal as there is no evident order of who was shot first, second and so on. Sheila simply could have walked on blood splatter from any of the other victims wounds.
For me personally though, i had always assumed that Sheila was the first to be shot. This photo seems to dispel that theory and points to the final resting place of her body to be quite odd.
They're not exactly caked with blood though, which you would have expected from someone who had been on a killing spree. I also would have expected blood on her insteps and toes as well. As far as I know the photos don't show this. They don't prove anything along with all of the other desperate grasping at straws attempts that have made up his previous appeals.
Interesting thought about her being shot first, I thought most people assume the twins were first and Sheila was last. I also think maybe Sheila was told they would be next unless she did as she was told. That could be a possible reason why Sheila was as compliant and apparently cooperative as she would have had to have been.
What absolutely swings it for me is that Nevill clearly was anxious to reach the phone to get help. Someone was very keen to stop him getting there and telling someone exactly what was going on. Also someone was very careful to cover their tracks as well as they could. It makes no sense why Sheila would be at such great pains to stop Nevill from reaching the phone (knowing she would have plenty of time before any help of any kind arrived to continue with her rampage and that she would just kill herself and escape justice that way) and performing a clean up operation. It makes perfect sense why Jeremy would have done both of these things.
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You make some good points Goatboy. I had never considered what you have said about Nevill, the phone and Sheila caring whether he called someone or not. The not guilty chaps would claim that she was deranged, not thinking and dismissing any thought processes of rationality.
With regard to the twins. Vanezis says that they were shot 8 times, in quick succession and in an arc. Using 8 bullets from a gun with a capacity of 10 rounds on the poor twins would seem a bit of a gamble, with three other adults to subdue and with a reload needed. The shots to June and Nevill in the first episode are erratic, whereas the boys wounds are controlled. It is almost as if the situation was under control when they were killed. They are my main reasons why i think they were shot last.
The trail of Junes blood to where Sheila's body was found indicates to me, June struggling round, wounded to check on Sheila. It would also make sense to gather the adults together in one room which is what i think happened. I believe, Sheila was woken and taken into the main bedroom at gunpoint. This is why i assumed she had been shot first. Its just a theory!
Edit: Sheila could have been awake, having made a midnight snack waiting for Jeremy or a.n other to turn up with some weed and simply let him in and the rest is history.......another theory!!
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Apparently there are three books due out in the coming months:
Andrew Hunter
Mason Doyle (no idea who this person is)
Carol Anne Lees
I believe the first two are pro Bamber unsure about the third. Question I would like to ask is why now?
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Just spent my lunch hour Googling books on Jeremy Bamber and found this:
http://www.murderarchiveuk.com/paul-harrison.html
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It's all in the public domain Myster. In fact I was looking for the following article at lunch-time:
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Book+cop+I'll+show+Bamber's+innocent.-a0337437563
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I for one welcome Holly here-it's good to have a dissenting voice to debate with rather than have everyone agree with everything the others say. Like or loathe the blue forum (I loathe it and am proud to say I've been nowhere near it in months) at least there are some alternative points of view to the crazy tosh perpetuated by that forum.
But if Jeremy is going to get out of prison is a book going to help? Surely they need solid, irrefutable evidence that will overturn his conviction not more wild speculation dressed up as fact? He's going round in circles and nothing his team come up with holds any water at all. Mind you, I suppose you can't blame him for trying, what else can he do?
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And before you even GO there.....I've baggied "The Haunted Vagina." 8)-)))
I'll see that and raise you this:
http://cdn.sobadsogood.net/wp-content/uploads/worst-book-covers-titles-12.jpeg
Seriously creepy! @)(++(*
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And before you even GO there.....I've baggied "The Haunted Vagina." 8)-)))
That is my Autobiography, I will have you know.
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Cor Blimey, Outlook !!!, where have you been ?... back to the Orient for six months... I've missed you ! 8**8:/:
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Cor Blimey, Outlook !!!, where have you been ?... back to the Orient for six months... I've missed you ! 8**8:/:
Northern Italy Classical Tour. I haven't been here for months because I cannot stand the MC Zombies.
Has it not dawned on Tesco and the Bamberettes yet that after 10,000 pieces of "stunning new evidence that will get JB out by the weekend" that it is all bollocks and they only way he is ever getting out of jail is in a box after he does the decent thing and ends his own worthless life?
Jeremy Bamber, the only guy that makes Jimmy Savile look like a reasonable member of society.
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Well Holly, you've blown his cover now... the blue keyboards will be smokin' hot (other than susan's).
From the title of the first book he's obviously "solved" the Whitechapel murders, like many others before and after. But why do we still not know who dun it ?
So I can't see any new revelations in January setting Bamber free. We'll be spoilt for choice as to which to read... but I'll give all three a miss, TYVM.
There were only two people who could have been responsible for the WHF murders, and it certainly wasn't Sheila Caffell.
Don't mention Susan to me pleeeeze.
Apologies as we're going off thread here but moral dilemma/question...Susan posted up about a childhood experience she claims was painful namely bullied for being overweight. I know the identity of Susan and have done for some considerable time and I know for sure this is false. I've gone along with her alias but felt the above was a step too far.
As I knew it was false I ribbed her about it. Others were quick to judge and I ended up with a ban.
1. Should I have ignored Susan's tale and allow others to believe it?
2. Is it ok to make up painful experiences for effect where real victims exist?
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The first thing I would say given the bollox we have already seen in the Bamber case is that the photo is probably fake. If it was an original crime scene photo the carpet would be beige and not green. A body photographed in the morgue would not be lying on a contaminant such as a green blanket.
Had Sheila taken part in the assault on Nevill in the kitchen where a glass lampshade was shattered her feet would have had glass shards in them with the inevitable bloody smears. The foot shown on that photograph shows no signs whatsoever of having had contact with broken glass. Had there have been, there would have been dried/congealed blood in all the skin crevices.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/10/12/article-2456759-18B3E01000000578-139_634x268.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/rC5Do.jpg)
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Surely Andrew Hunter and The Mail would have gone to some length to prove authenticity 8-)(--)
I rarely comment on the photos as I feel its pretty futile and requires a photographic expert such as Peter Sutherest to interpret.
I was never quite sure why the CCRC slung out PS's claims re the scratch marks on the mantle being made AFTER the relatives/police claim they were made. I think CCRC took the view that police witness statements must take precedence?
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Authentic or not the photograph proves nothing as other members have pointed out so eloquently.
Andrew Hunter is a non entity, a political ghost. I am surprised the Mail even considers his pointless rantings.
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Authentic or not the photograph proves nothing as other members have pointed out so eloquently.
Andrew Hunter is a non entity, a political ghost. I am surprised the Mail even considers his pointless rantings.
Agreed but the Daily Fail is there only to sell newspapers not to establish the truth. It is just another opportunity to publish a picture of a dead woman in a nightie to add to Tesco's fantasy folder, and he does have lots of gory fantasies about her....
Also is it just me or has Sheila "grown" an extra toe? certainly something funny about what would have normally been her "little toe" Maybe she was just a martyr to her bunions?
The only reason that Peter Sutherest keeps getting dragged out of the closet as an "expert" is that he has been "helpful" to the Bamberettes in the past. Tesco worships "experts" that are helpful to his deranged rants and upholds that "anything an expert says is a FACT!" (his emphasis not mine, I do not trust any "expert", they are paid hacks like anyone else, pay your "expert" and get your answer).
Interestingly Peter Vanezis varies wildly in Tesco's eyes as an "expert of unparalleled genius" to "an incompetent that conspired to get beloved little Jeremy banged up" depending on the exact piece of evidence under discussion. It is sad that someone who has given so much service to this country is so ill-used by such a deranged individual.
The Bamberettes would better employ their time examining their own and of course Tesco's motivations for the Bamber campaigns which have contributed so much to ensuring JB is a laughing stock and that any appeal he has made has been totally undermined.
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Authentic or not the photograph proves nothing as other members have pointed out so eloquently.
Andrew Hunter is a non entity, a political ghost. I am surprised the Mail even considers his pointless rantings.
Eloquent or not, only opinions from photographic experts are capable of advancing this potentially new evidence.
I take it you're not a fan of Andrew Hunter/his views. I find it surprising that a former right wing mp is taking up a potential moj. Makes a change from the usual suspects ie the George Galloway's of this world.
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Eloquent or not, only opinions from photographic experts are capable of advancing this potentially new evidence.
I take it you're not a fan of Andrew Hunter/his views. I find it surprising that a former right wing mp is taking up a potential moj. Makes a change from the usual suspects ie the George Galloway's of this world.
Another dodgy photo like the Sheila on the bed one. @)(++(*
Thing is peeps... the uninformed will believe this nonsense...thankfully most of us who have studied the Bamber case know it is baloney.
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Agreed but the Daily Fail is there only to sell newspapers not to establish the truth. It is just another opportunity to publish a picture of a dead woman in a nightie to add to Tesco's fantasy folder, and he does have lots of gory fantasies about her....
Also is it just me or has Sheila "grown" an extra toe? certainly something funny about what would have normally been her "little toe" Maybe she was just a martyr to her bunions?
The only reason that Peter Sutherest keeps getting dragged out of the closet as an "expert" is that he has been "helpful" to the Bamberettes in the past. Tesco worships "experts" that are helpful to his deranged rants and upholds that "anything an expert says is a FACT!" (his emphasis not mine, I do not trust any "expert", they are paid hacks like anyone else, pay your "expert" and get your answer).
Interestingly Peter Vanezis varies wildly in Tesco's eyes as an "expert of unparalleled genius" to "an incompetent that conspired to get beloved little Jeremy banged up" depending on the exact piece of evidence under discussion. It is sad that someone who has given so much service to this country is so ill-used by such a deranged individual.
The Bamberettes would better employ their time examining their own and of course Tesco's motivations for the Bamber campaigns which have contributed so much to ensuring JB is a laughing stock and that any appeal he has made has been totally undermined.
Whatever any "expert" comes up with obviously has to pass the CCRC and appeal court judges before Jeremy gets to mimic the sketch his pal drew of him standing on the steps outside the CoA with a raised fist ?{)(** Quite a filter I would say 8(0(* Something tells me though that a new dawn is on the horizon. We shall see......
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Another dodgy photo like the Sheila on the bed one. @)(++(*
Thing is peeps... the uninformed will believe this nonsense...thankfully most of us who have studied the Banner case know it is baloney.
At least this one is available and not just a figment of a certain person's rather fertile imagination.
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At least this one is available and not just a figment of a certain person's rather fertile imagination.
Tesco has never been above photoshopping images in the past. He loves it but the only saving grace is he is so bad at it. Wax crayons would be a better tool in his case.
This will go nowhere, just an opportunity for the Daily Fail to publish "soft necro-porn."
The need for experts has changed, old photos were chemicals on paper. Modern ones are pixels and can be analysed mathematically but nothing can be decided from a newspaper image. You need the original negs and then know the scanning method, the file type... the list goes on.
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Tesco has never been above photoshopping images in the past. He loves it but the only saving grace is he is so bad at it. Wax crayons would be a better tool in his case.
This will go nowhere, just an opportunity for the Daily Fail to publish "soft necro-porn."
The need for experts has changed, old photos were chemicals on paper. Modern ones are pixels and can be analysed mathematically but nothing can be decided from a newspaper image. You need the original negs and then know the scanning method, the file type... the list goes on.
Question is, after all this time and that photo wasn't even posted on the blue forum. A 5-toe fake??
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It shows how interested JBs lawyers really are in looking at the case file. They know a "Busted Flush" when they see one. 8)--))
I am surprised that Tesco didn't pinch it a few years back and send it to JB after carefully scanning it and saving it on his "Hard" drive. I assume that in his case a "Hard" drive means exactly that? There must be some good stuff on it?
If even a tenth of what he claims is true surely it is worth ten years for "Interfering with the Course of Justice?"
Yes I am convinced there is an extra toe. "Suck on that experts!"