UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: abs on July 19, 2012, 03:14:54 PM
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9411788/Jeremy-Bamber-granted-appeal-in-European-court.html#
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It has just been announced that the Grand Chamber of the European Court of Human Rights have granted an appeal to Jeremy Bamber in the review of his Whole Life Tariff sentence.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9411788/Jeremy-Bamber-granted-appeal-in-European-court.html
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Admin - there are two threads about this now - can you please remove this one?
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9411788/Jeremy-Bamber-granted-appeal-in-European-court.html#
Sorry abs. Didn't see your post. 8)--))
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It´s fine - admin will remove mine, I don´t mind.
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It has just been announced that the Grand Chamber of the European Court of Human Rights have granted an appeal to Jeremy Bamber in the review of his Whole Life Tariff sentence.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9411788/Jeremy-Bamber-granted-appeal-in-European-court.html
Clever Hartley has just explained this. No wonder Belton is always trying to get Hartley banned. Hartley is a legend. Belton is a doofus.
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Another attempt by this beast to squirm out of his just desserts.
He is nothing if not persistent. He'll lose this like every other legal challenge he's undergone.
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Mat
I have just read what you have said about me on the other forum.
My last post was 1.53 am and I went to sleep
Your message was nearly 3 am that's why I didn't reply especially as Bridget accused me of being jeffrey
I can 100% confirm I have not been posting on the blue forum and I am not Jeffrey
Somebody is winding you up
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Another piece of McKay gobbledygook....,
'The final analysis will depend on what the Grand Chamber says in the end.'
"In the final analysis" seems to be his favourite phrase..., let's hope it will be final!!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2175974/Murderer-Jeremy-Bamber-appeal-freedom-human-rights-court-claims-life-tariff-inhuman-degrading.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2175974/Murderer-Jeremy-Bamber-appeal-freedom-human-rights-court-claims-life-tariff-inhuman-degrading.html)
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Another http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2175974/Murderer-Jeremy-Bamber-appeal-freedom-human-rights-court-claims-life-tariff-inhuman-degrading.html
We have life timers here in Denmark too. Some of them I don´t want to see out of prison ever, they are too dangerous.
Another one had a 16 year sentence (maximum here if it is´t life). I would have liked him to have a life sentence. He killed his girlfriend - another girlfriend "disappeared" and has never been found. More than that, he was under suspicion for another murder of a woman, that case has never been solved.
He is out now. So far he has done nothing, but such a man is, in my opinion, too dangerous to be free. Good looking man, some woman/women will fall for him for sure. Poor them!
Not talking about the Bamber case here, just some general thoughts on life sentences.
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This does not help Bamber all that much. There are two other convicted murderers involved in this appeal and I bet the present government will strongly oppose the application. Even if the European Court does decide in their favour that does not mean instant release on parole. His original 25 year tarriff was only the MINIMUM time that he could be imprisoned.
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This does not help Bamber all that much. There are two other convicted murderers involved in this appeal and I bet the present government will strongly oppose the application. Even if the European Court does decide in their favour that does not mean instant release on parole. His original 25 year tarriff was only the MINIMUM time that he could be imprisoned.
I cannot see any chance of this being successful
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I think this is much more likely to be successful than the Judicial Review. However, a release like this will be no good for him. He will still be penniless because as a convicted murderer he still cannot claim his parents' inheritance or earnings from the caravan site. If he isn't going to be minted when he walks out of jail I doubt if he'll be interested.
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Mat
I have just read what you have said about me on the other forum.
My last post was 1.53 am and I went to sleep
Your message was nearly 3 am that's why I didn't reply especially as Bridget accused me of being jeffrey
I can 100% confirm I have not been posting on the blue forum and I am not Jeffrey
Somebody is winding you up
I wouldn't be suprised if you're sharing the account with another deranged woman.
Another piece of McKay gobbledygook....,
'The final analysis will depend on what the Grand Chamber says in the end.'
"In the final analysis" seems to be his favourite phrase..., let's hope it will be final!!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2175974/Murderer-Jeremy-Bamber-appeal-freedom-human-rights-court-claims-life-tariff-inhuman-degrading.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2175974/Murderer-Jeremy-Bamber-appeal-freedom-human-rights-court-claims-life-tariff-inhuman-degrading.html)
Myster, I think Simon is a spectator to this aspect of the case, nothing I've seen seems like his work and Hartley doesn't think McKay is involved either, interesting.
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Mat
I am to busy to do anything at the moment I am totally focused on something important I am working on to be interested in any stupid games on the forum.
I have read some of it briefly because of your message and if they don't like a poster why don't they just ban him
Simple
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I think this is much more likely to be successful than the Judicial Review. However, a release like this will be no good for him. He will still be penniless because as a convicted murderer he still cannot claim his parents' inheritance or earnings from the caravan site. If he isn't going to be minted when he walks out of jail I doubt if he'll be interested.
It would be difficult in any case, money or no money. His life is pretty much down the drain. After so many years in prison, he has no real idea what life is like now, even though he in one of the lucky few who has contact with the outside world.
He has no family - just people he doesn´t REALLY know. Seriously, I HOPE he is in fact guilty, because if he is not, this is almost too tragic to even think about.
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I think this is much more likely to be successful than the Judicial Review. However, a release like this will be no good for him. He will still be penniless because as a convicted murderer he still cannot claim his parents' inheritance or earnings from the caravan site. If he isn't going to be minted when he walks out of jail I doubt if he'll be interested.
It would be difficult in any case, money or no money. His life is pretty much down the drain. After so many years in prison, he has no real idea what life is like now, even though he in one of the lucky few who has contact with the outside world.
He has no family - just people he doesn´t REALLY know. Seriously, I HOPE he is in fact guilty, because if he is not, this is almost too tragic to even think about.
Abs I am pretty sure that this will not be successful. The ECHR has lost a lot of credibility over some of their strange judicial decisions in recent years and I cannot forsee them granting this. The British government's wish is that this callous mass-murdering ingrate serve a whole life tariff as dictated by A BRITISH court system - not theirs. They will be well-aware of this. Even if by some miracle they grant it, it doesn't necessarily mean the British goverment will follow that recommendation.
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(http://www.katzy.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/c009.gif) guys...just back.
I have merged the two topics started by abs and David in connection with the referral of the Bamber case to the Grand Chamber of the European Court.
Any problems with today's post let me know. (http://www.katzy.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/c017.gif)
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We need to be on our guard, someone has taken to posting a picture of mats son on the other forum.
We have to make sure it doesnt happen on here, regardless of what people think of mat, its low to post pictures of his baby son. Very low.
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We need to be on our guard, someone has taken to posting a picture of mats son on the other forum.
We have to make sure it doesnt happen on here, regardless of what people think of mat, its low to post pictures of his baby son. Very low.
Why would they do that Andrea? Sorry not been in all day so a bit behind.
I must admit I posted a picture of Tracy and her bairn but she had posted it on facebook anyway. I didn't see a problem at the time but she went ape...not that she finds that hard.
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Yeah, please guys if they post the picture here.. delete it. I'd really appreciate it.
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Yeah, please guys if they post the picture here.. delete it. I'd really appreciate it.
Have you upset someone Mat? I must admit I have always found you quite reasonable to discuss things with.
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dont worry, mat. It will be deleted.
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Mat, do you work for the CCRC? Or should I not ask that?
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Yeah, please guys if they post the picture here.. delete it. I'd really appreciate it.
Have you upset someone Mat? I must admit I have always found you quite reasonable to discuss things with.
I've been getting into it with Steph on the blue forum today and last night.
and Grahame has called me Mat the tw.. and a load of other insults tonight. But my heart says.. neither of them would do this.
Mat, do you work for the CCRC? Or should I not ask that?
No, I don't. You can ask anything it isn't all spies and 007. I won't kill you. :P
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I am appalled at the lengths some people will go to.
The name Hunt came up in the Foyer on the other side....and disappeared just as quick. It was so quick I never got to read the intro......
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Yeah, please guys if they post the picture here.. delete it. I'd really appreciate it.
Who would do such a thing? What has happened to that forum?
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Its low, AA. Peoples children should never be brought into disagreements.
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They can call me a woman etc.. and it doesn't even bother me. But at the moment I admit, I feel defeated.
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I think this is much more likely to be successful than the Judicial Review. However, a release like this will be no good for him. He will still be penniless because as a convicted murderer he still cannot claim his parents' inheritance or earnings from the caravan site. If he isn't going to be minted when he walks out of jail I doubt if he'll be interested.
It would be difficult in any case, money or no money. His life is pretty much down the drain. After so many years in prison, he has no real idea what life is like now, even though he in one of the lucky few who has contact with the outside world.
He has no family - just people he doesn´t REALLY know. Seriously, I HOPE he is in fact guilty, because if he is not, this is almost too tragic to even think about.
Abs I am pretty sure that this will not be successful. The ECHR has lost a lot of credibility over some of their strange judicial decisions in recent years and I cannot forsee them granting this. The British government's wish is that this callous mass-murdering ingrate serve a whole life tariff as dictated by A BRITISH court system - not theirs. They will be well-aware of this. Even if by some miracle they grant it, it doesn't necessarily mean the British goverment will follow that recommendation.
Forgive me if I have got this wrong but I understand the Grand Chamber appeal relates to his full life tariff. Does this mean that he could be released say after 30 or more years if he wins this appeal?
Surely an immediate release wouldn't be on the cards even though he has done 25 years?
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They can call me a woman etc.. and it doesn't even bother me. But at the moment I admit, I feel defeated.
How did they get a picture of your boy?
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They can call me a woman etc.. and it doesn't even bother me. But at the moment I admit, I feel defeated.
Don't give Belton the satisfaction. Note that he hasn't deleted his account. He'll be back, as revolting as ever.
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They can call me a woman etc.. and it doesn't even bother me. But at the moment I admit, I feel defeated.
How did they get a picture of your boy?
I have no idea. It isn't a picture I had ever seen before, but it's recent. He got that coat for Christmas so it's between December and now. I also don't recognise where he is in the picture, it looks like someones garage, it could be at school though. There is a chance that they found his school and looked on their website I guess.
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John, even if he won this case, they will never let that piece of shit out. Can you imagine the outcry?
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They can call me a woman etc.. and it doesn't even bother me. But at the moment I admit, I feel defeated.
How did they get a picture of your boy?
I have no idea. It isn't a picture I had ever seen before, but it's recent. He got that coat for Christmas so it's between December and now. I also don't recognise where he is in the picture, it looks like someones garage, it could be at school though. There is a chance that they found his school and looked on their website I guess.
Keira.
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John, even if he won this case, they will never let that piece of shit out. Can you imagine the outcry?
Certainly agree with you but just wondered what the European Court thingy was all about. I must admit I haven't read up on it.
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They can call me a woman etc.. and it doesn't even bother me. But at the moment I admit, I feel defeated.
You have no need to feel defeated, mat. It is they who are defeated and proved it by postings personal pictures of your son.
Personal pictures should never be posted by anyone other than yourself. Its is also illegal if they are doing in an attempt to bully you etc. makes no difference if the picture was already on the net mat.
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They can call me a woman etc.. and it doesn't even bother me. But at the moment I admit, I feel defeated.
How did they get a picture of your boy?
I have no idea. It isn't a picture I had ever seen before, but it's recent. He got that coat for Christmas so it's between December and now. I also don't recognise where he is in the picture, it looks like someones garage, it could be at school though. There is a chance that they found his school and looked on their website I guess.
Jesus! That is an absolutely disgraceful thing to do. Whoever posted that is sub human s..m.
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Sika.....from what I have learnt, just by reading this forum, it's not surprising that someone has gone to such lengths. The person doing this is quite sick.......mentally.
Mat, I think I speak for us all when I say how shocked and angry we all are by Hunt's post. Someone knows who did it - and you will find out in time - then tell us all!!!
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They can call me a woman etc.. and it doesn't even bother me. But at the moment I admit, I feel defeated.
Don't give Belton the satisfaction. Note that he hasn't deleted his account. He'll be back, as revolting as ever.
What's been bothering him today? All he ever seems to do is upset everyone. 8)><(
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Sika.....from what I have learnt, just by reading this forum, it's not surprising that someone has gone to such lengths. The person doing this is quite sick.......mentally.
Mat, I think I speak for us all when I say how shocked and angry we all are by Hunt's post. Someone knows who did it - and you will find out in time - then tell us all!!!
I'm deffo going to find out. I'll get their I.P and email that they signed up with. I'm not about to get bullied.
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John, even if he won this case, they will never let that piece of shit out. Can you imagine the outcry?
Certainly agree with you but just wondered what the European Court thingy was all about. I must admit I haven't read up on it.
I don't think it's as cut and dried as it at first reads. It's being referred on a technicality, I can see this rumbling on for years yet.
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Sika.....from what I have learnt, just by reading this forum, it's not surprising that someone has gone to such lengths. The person doing this is quite sick.......mentally.
Mat, I think I speak for us all when I say how shocked and angry we all are by Hunt's post. Someone knows who did it - and you will find out in time - then tell us all!!!
I'm deffo going to find out. I'll get their I.P and email that they signed up with. I'm not about to get bullied.
Good for you Mat.
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They can call me a woman etc.. and it doesn't even bother me. But at the moment I admit, I feel defeated.
You have no need to feel defeated, mat. It is they who are defeated and proved it by postings personal pictures of your son.
Personal pictures should never be posted by anyone other than yourself. Its is also illegal if they are doing in an attempt to bully you etc. makes no difference if the picture was already on the net mat.
I agree with Andrea but you probably know that already Mat. Re posting a picture which is already on the internet is one thing and that is my defence for doing it with Tracy but to post an original picture of a child is beyond belief especially when you don't know where they got it from.
Thanks Sika.
If I can help you with IP's just let me know Mat. I have a big list of them and who they belong to. Which user posted the picture by the way?
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Somebody called hunt, John.
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They can call me a woman etc.. and it doesn't even bother me. But at the moment I admit, I feel defeated.
You have no need to feel defeated, mat. It is they who are defeated and proved it by postings personal pictures of your son.
Personal pictures should never be posted by anyone other than yourself. Its is also illegal if they are doing in an attempt to bully you etc. makes no difference if the picture was already on the net mat.
I agree with Andrea but you probably know that already Mat. Re posting a picture which is already on the internet is one thing and that is my defence for doing it with Tracy but to post an original picture of a child is beyond belief especially when you don't know where they got it from.
Thanks Sika.
If I can help you with IP's just let me know Mat. I have a big list of them and who they belong to. Which user posted the picture by the way?
It was on the blue forum John, and went by the name of Hunt. Roch, hopefully has it.
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Somebody called hunt, John.
Well if one of the Global Mods lets me have the IP I can check it out as I did before. I promise I will publicly post the offenders name if I can confirm it.
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They can call me a woman etc.. and it doesn't even bother me. But at the moment I admit, I feel defeated.
You have no need to feel defeated, mat. It is they who are defeated and proved it by postings personal pictures of your son.
Personal pictures should never be posted by anyone other than yourself. Its is also illegal if they are doing in an attempt to bully you etc. makes no difference if the picture was already on the net mat.
I agree with Andrea but you probably know that already Mat. Re posting a picture which is already on the internet is one thing and that is my defence for doing it with Tracy but to post an original picture of a child is beyond belief especially when you don't know where they got it from.
Thanks Sika.
If I can help you with IP's just let me know Mat. I have a big list of them and who they belong to. Which user posted the picture by the way?
Thanks, John. Any help would be appreciated. I have their I.P.
IP: 86.1.44.145
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They can call me a woman etc.. and it doesn't even bother me. But at the moment I admit, I feel defeated.
You have no need to feel defeated, mat. It is they who are defeated and proved it by postings personal pictures of your son.
Personal pictures should never be posted by anyone other than yourself. Its is also illegal if they are doing in an attempt to bully you etc. makes no difference if the picture was already on the net mat.
I agree with Andrea but you probably know that already Mat. Re posting a picture which is already on the internet is one thing and that is my defence for doing it with Tracy but to post an original picture of a child is beyond belief especially when you don't know where they got it from.
Thanks Sika.
If I can help you with IP's just let me know Mat. I have a big list of them and who they belong to. Which user posted the picture by the way?
Thanks, John. Any help would be appreciated. I have their I.P.
IP: 86.1.44.145
Jeez!! They should be shaking in their boots!! I'd just fall to pieces.........
This is gonna be one to watch......tell us John - who was it?
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Lets hope it is someone that has posted here before and that they weren't using a proxy that is too difficult to get around.
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Lets hope it is someone that has posted here before and that they weren't using a proxy that is too difficult to get around.
I don't understand any of that Mat............but I'm with you!! 8((()*/
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Lets hope it is someone that has posted here before and that they weren't using a proxy that is too difficult to get around.
I don't understand any of that Mat............but I'm with you!! 8((()*/
Ha, I will be well nervous about going on Holiday tommorow now - God knows what they'll post when I am away!
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We need to be on our guard, someone has taken to posting a picture of mats son on the other forum.
We have to make sure it doesnt happen on here, regardless of what people think of mat, its low to post pictures of his baby son. Very low.
WHAT?!
INSANE, just insane. Whoever you are, sicko behind this, you are truly insane!
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Agree, abs.
Reet im off to bed folks. night all xxxx
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Thanks, John. Any help would be appreciated. I have their I.P.
IP: 86.1.44.145
Right, as you can guess by the delay it didn't come up as anyone we know on here.
Checking it on two systems the user would appear to be on Virgin Media.
The location comes up as Leeds and Crawley which leads me to believe that someone is using remote IP software.
Whoever it is Mat, knows how to stay anonymous by the looks of it.
PS It isn't Andrea just in case anyone is wondering! ?{)(**
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Thanks, John. Any help would be appreciated. I have their I.P.
IP: 86.1.44.145
Right, as you can guess by the delay it didn't come up as anyone we know on here.
Checking it on two systems the user would appear to be on Virgin Media.
The location comes up as Leeds and Crawley which leads me to believe that someone is using remote IP software.
Whoever it is Mat, knows how to stay anonymous by the looks of it.
Thanks for the help, John. I owe you.
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Thanks, John. Any help would be appreciated. I have their I.P.
IP: 86.1.44.145
Right, as you can guess by the delay it didn't come up as anyone we know on here.
Checking it on two systems the user would appear to be on Virgin Media.
The location comes up as Leeds and Crawley which leads me to believe that someone is using remote IP software.
Whoever it is Mat, knows how to stay anonymous by the looks of it.
Thanks for the help, John. I owe you.
I can tell you something however and that is that I have seen that location come up before and the only person I know who lives anywhere near there is the one and only Neil Bellis who stays in Uckfield.
Not saying it is him mind.
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I've been decent to him lately, I doubt he would - but yeah no one I can think of is even in that area.
Speaking openly it had to be someone I've crossed paths with. The only people I have fallen out with are Jackie, Keira, Steph, Grahame.
Jackie - I've made up with her recently.
Keira - She hasn't been around for a while - although according to Grahame she blames me for her downfall and that pictures of her were posted on here.
Steph - I don't even know her but she came for me two weeks ago on here and came at me on the blue forum tonight and last night.
Grahame - he's never liked me. I exposed him as a liar and he's been bitter ever since, he's been a nightmare for the blue forum tonight.
But...... I legit have no idea who would actually do this.
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Thanks, John. Any help would be appreciated. I have their I.P.
IP: 86.1.44.145
Right, as you can guess by the delay it didn't come up as anyone we know on here.
Checking it on two systems the user would appear to be on Virgin Media.
The location comes up as Leeds and Crawley which leads me to believe that someone is using remote IP software.
Whoever it is Mat, knows how to stay anonymous by the looks of it.
Thanks for the help, John. I owe you.
I can tell you something however and that is that I have seen that location come up before and the only person I know who lives anywhere near there is the one and only Neil Bellis who stays in Uckfield.
Not saying it is him mind.
Bellis doesn't have it in for Mat does he? It's not his MO is it?
Or would it be deliberately done to get someone else into trouble.......
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I've been decent to him lately, I doubt he would - but yeah no one I can think of is even in that area.
Speaking openly it had to be someone I've crossed paths with. The only people I have fallen out with are Jackie, Keira, Steph, Grahame.
Jackie - I've made up with her recently.
Keira - She hasn't been around for a while - although according to Grahame she blames me for her downfall and that pictures of her were posted on here.
Steph - I don't even know her but she came for me two weeks ago on here and came at me on the blue forum tonight and last night.
Grahame - he's never liked me. I exposed him as a liar and he's been bitter ever since, he's been a nightmare for the blue forum tonight.
But...... I legit have no idea who would actually do this.
Mat, where did you get the IP from?
There is another who stays in Leeds!
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What I mean is:
If someone had it in for Steph for example, then the person would post the pic in the hope that Steph be blamed.
Not saying it was, or I think it was Steph, this is just an example.
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I've been decent to him lately, I doubt he would - but yeah no one I can think of is even in that area.
Speaking openly it had to be someone I've crossed paths with. The only people I have fallen out with are Jackie, Keira, Steph, Grahame.
Jackie - I've made up with her recently.
Keira - She hasn't been around for a while - although according to Grahame she blames me for her downfall and that pictures of her were posted on here.
Steph - I don't even know her but she came for me two weeks ago on here and came at me on the blue forum tonight and last night.
Grahame - he's never liked me. I exposed him as a liar and he's been bitter ever since, he's been a nightmare for the blue forum tonight.
But...... I legit have no idea who would actually do this.
Where did you get the IP?
There is another who stays in Leeds!
PM'd you.
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What I mean is:
If someone had it in for Steph for example, then the person would post the pic in the hope that Steph be blamed.
Not saying it was, or I think it was Steph, this is just an example.
Yeah, need to be open minded. but the list of who it could have been isn't very long.
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How did the person know where to find the photo? If you can deduct that, problem solved. Have you shared any information, fb, twitter, any other sites with anyone?
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They only needed his name. It was weeks ago I said I have a son and Keira asked his name, I said it - didn't think it would be a problem.
As for FB/Twitter. that picture isn't on my Facebook and i do not have twitter. I have no idea where the picture is from, I haven't seen it before. I would ask his Mum but then I'd have to explain all of this to her.
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They only needed his name. It was weeks ago I said I have a son and Keira asked his name, I said it - didn't think it would be a problem.
As for FB/Twitter. that picture isn't on my Facebook and i do not have twitter. I have no idea where the picture is from, I haven't seen it before. I would ask his Mum but then I'd have to explain all of this to her.
You have your answer...the Keira creep! She probably passed it to you know who as she usually does.
Jesus that bird needs sorting!!
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I can't remember if the conversation with Keira was on the open board or via PM. If it was on the open board anyone could have seen it.
My gut says that - Keira passed information onto Jackie. Jackie told Steph...and boom.
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Whether Keira actually posted it is irrelevant now.
She passed on this private information, giving someone else the opportunity to expose Mat and his son.
In my eyes - Keira is just as guilty.....
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When she comes back I will ask her outright.
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I can't remember if the conversation with Keira was on the open board or via PM. If it was on the open board anyone could have seen it.
My gut says that - Keira passed information onto Jackie. Jackie told Steph...and boom.
Steph's IP is always identifiable Mat and her laptop too slow to use a proxy IP so you can rule her out.
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Whether Keira actually posted it is irrelevant now.
She passed on this private information, giving someone else the opportunity to expose Mat and his son.
In my eyes - Keira is just as guilty.....
You have to remember that Colleen Morrison has access to various data systems at her work which can be used to track people. She is a dab hand at that alright.
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Whether Keira actually posted it is irrelevant now.
She passed on this private information, giving someone else the opportunity to expose Mat and his son.
In my eyes - Keira is just as guilty.....
You have to remember that Colleen Morrison has access to various data systems at her work which can be used to track people. She is a dab hand at that alright.
I was told Colleen Morrison is not her correct name. Have I been misinformed?
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No, it is her name. I asked her and she told me it wasn't. But she wasn't being honest with me. :(
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Whether Keira actually posted it is irrelevant now.
She passed on this private information, giving someone else the opportunity to expose Mat and his son.
In my eyes - Keira is just as guilty.....
You have to remember that Colleen Morrison has access to various data systems at her work which can be used to track people. She is a dab hand at that alright.
I was told Colleen Morrison is not her correct name. Have I been misinformed?
Oh its her alright. I am pretty careful before going public with any of this so I had it checked out. She posted material about Jeremy Bamber on her pal Rob's Blog under her own name once which gave her away.
http://roberthalfon.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07/tabloid-newspapers-power-without.html
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They only needed his name. It was weeks ago I said I have a son and Keira asked his name, I said it - didn't think it would be a problem.
As for FB/Twitter. that picture isn't on my Facebook and i do not have twitter. I have no idea where the picture is from, I haven't seen it before. I would ask his Mum but then I'd have to explain all of this to her.
You have your answer...the Keira creep! She probably passed it to you know who as she usually does.
Jesus that bird needs sorting!!
Or suing. )(**(*&^
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I note with interest that admin has been conversing with former Bamber agent Giovanni di Stefano on twitter about his fraud allegations concerning the debacle at Rangers Football Club and asked him if he still believed Bamber to be innocent.
He insists that there was a third party involved and that Bamber is a million percent innocent. Its worth a look.
@Justice_forum on twitter.
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I note with interest that admin has been conversing with former Bamber agent Giovanni di Stefano on twitter about his fraud allegations concerning the debacle at Rangers Football Club and asked him if he still believed Bamber to be innocent.
He insists that there was a third party involved and that Bamber is a million percent innocent. Its worth a look.
@Justice_forum on twitter.
I found his comments somewhat revealing.
@Justice_forum
Can we ask you Giovanni, as a former advocate for #Jeremy_Bamber, do you still hold with the opinion that he may be innocent?
GIOVANNI DI STEFANO @DEVILSADVOKAT
but Jeremy has been his own worst enemy for pounding on about the silencer as is his right but the bamber issue rests on time of death which my expert said was no more than two hours before photo which is 7.30am that clears Jeremy
@Justice_forum
Not so. Bamber referring to an alleged telephone call > that Sheila was to blame he inadvertently put himself in the frame
GIOVANNI DI STEFANO @DEVILSADVOKAT
not necessarily there was a third person anyway mr b has his own way and I wish him well and hope he gets out as he innocent.
GIOVANNI DI STEFANO @DEVILSADVOKAT
bamber is a billion percent INNOCENT
@Justice_forum
Well that implies that Sheila is a billion percent guilty by default yet the real evidence says NO! Explain that if you can?
GIOVANNI DI STEFANO @DEVILSADVOKAT
but you going great job on many well done wish more like you
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I note with interest that admin has been conversing with former Bamber agent Giovanni di Stefano on twitter about his fraud allegations concerning the debacle at Rangers Football Club and asked him if he still believed Bamber to be innocent.
He insists that there was a third party involved and that Bamber is a million percent innocent. Its worth a look.
@Justice_forum on twitter.
I found his comments somewhat revealing.
@Justice_forum
Can we ask you Giovanni, as a former advocate for #Jeremy_Bamber, do you still hold with the opinion that he may be innocent?
GIOVANNI DI STEFANO @DEVILSADVOKAT
but Jeremy has been his own worst enemy for pounding on about the silencer as is his right but the bamber issue rests on time of death which my expert said was no more than two hours before photo which is 7.30am that clears Jeremy
@Justice_forum
Not so. Bamber referring to an alleged telephone call > that Sheila was to blame he inadvertently put himself in the frame
GIOVANNI DI STEFANO @DEVILSADVOKAT
not necessarily there was a third person anyway mr b has his own way and I wish him well and hope he gets out as he innocent.
GIOVANNI DI STEFANO @DEVILSADVOKAT
bamber is a billion percent INNOCENT
@Justice_forum
Well that implies that Sheila is a billion percent guilty by default yet the real evidence says NO! Explain that if you can?
GIOVANNI DI STEFANO @DEVILSADVOKAT
but you going great job on many well done wish more like you
He mentions time of death and his expert.
So Giovanni's expert proffers an opinion without even having examined the body? That makes real sense and just about as fantastic as Bambers latest new evidence. @)(++(*
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Paul Glen, Phillip Heggarty, Mark Martin, Mark Hobson, William Horncy, Kenneth Regan ,Paul Culshaw, Glyn Dix, Daniel Gonzalez Dembovskis, David Tiley, Michael Smith, Steve Wright, Levi Bellfield, Douglas Vinter, Marc Chivers, Peter Tobin, Royston Jackson, Peter Sutcliffe, Ernest Wright, Anthony Hardy, John Maden, Wilbert Dyce, Stephen Griffiths, John Sweeney, George Norman Johnson, John Cooper, David Baxendale, Danilo Restivo, Andrew Dawson, Michael Roberts and David Cook.
Oh dear, I missed these off the list, looks like we need the Isle of Man then. )(**(*&^
Not sure that the folk on the Isle of Mann would be up for that, Joanne! 8)-)))
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I don't think anywhere would, only Alcatraz or a floating condo on the Thames!
There must be a disused North Sea oil rig going begging somewhere?
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A grim list indeed Joanne,
One only has to think of all the poor (and sadly in many cases forgotten) victims of these vile psychopaths for us to believe that four very thick thick walls and a very lost key may come in handy.
>@@(*&)
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I don't think anywhere would, only Alcatraz or a floating condo on the Thames!
@((*(&) Joanne!! Where have you been hiding??
Maybe we should have the death penalty after all in some cases?
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What I don't understand is right, a person is so 'bad' they commit mass murder, rape etc and are given whole life tarrifs, well where exactly is Jeremy Bamber thinking he's ever going to go? Like a retirement viallage for mass sadists or a condo (condominium) like?
So we need a community scheme for-: Ian Brady, Trevor Hardy, Robert Maudsley, Dennis Nilsen, Arthur Hutchinson, John Childs, Anthony Entwhistle, Victor Miller, John Duffy, Robert Black, Victor Castigador, Anthony Arkwright, Peter Moore, Rose West, Anthony Sawoniuk and Jeremy Bamber (if I've got it right)?
Building contract to Giovanni De Stefano by March 2068 and anyone want to be the caretaker?
If Harold Shipman was still alive, I'd make him caretaker of all those murderers in their old age.
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Can't see the european court making one iota of difference to this whatever the outcome. The UK Government will decide what is fit and proper punishment irrespective of what a european court decides. IMO they will continue to hold him in custody for as long as he denies his guilt and then some. When the Judicial review is completed in favour of the CCRC he will have no where left to run and might as well admit his guilt. Can you just imagine the look on the faces of all those bleedin heart Mike Tesko types then?
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You're right. Even if Bamber was to win in Europe ( and I wouldnt rule it out at all - the Grand Chamber doesnt give a toss about UK jurisdiction if it thinks its right) he wouldnt get parole unless he admitted his guilit and was no longer seen as a threat. Reggie Kray was given a 30 year tariff yet wasnt released until he was terminally ill.
Can't see the european court making one iota of difference to this whatever the outcome. The UK Government will decide what is fit and proper punishment irrespective of what a european court decides. IMO they will continue to hold him in custody for as long as he denies his guilt and then some. When the Judicial review is completed in favour of the CCRC he will have no where left to run and might as well admit his guilt. Can you just imagine the look on the faces of all those bleedin heart Mike Tesko types then?
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Kray didn't kill five members of his family. They will NEVER let Bamber out, like they will never let Tobin,Brady, Sutcliffe or Huntley out. It 'ain't happening. He will never admit to the crimes, he is a coward.
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Kray didn't kill five members of his family. They will NEVER let Bamber out, like they will never let Tobin,Brady, Sutcliffe or Huntley out. It 'ain't happening. He will never admit to the crimes, he is a coward.
Absolutely Sika,
These 'people' are murdering cowards, none more so than Bamber who up until now, has not got the guts to hold his hands up. He must now find himself in a quandry. His insufferable arrogance led him to believe that he would be released and that he could trick his way to freedom. Now he is beginning to realise that this is not going to happen any time soon.
He knows that his scheme to squirm out of his punishment and con his way to freedom by simply disseminating, twisting and lying didn't work. He has to now re-think. If he doesn't admit his guilt he will, without doubt spend the rest of his life in prison. However, he knows that if he admits his culpability and fakes some signs of remorse there is a very slight chance that when he is a geriatric he may just be released on license.
However, I will not hold my breath. His arrogance may be far stronger than his common sense.
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It was rather amusing the other day when admin had an encounter with none other than Giovanni di Stefano.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Giovanni_Di_Stefano.jpg/220px-Giovanni_Di_Stefano.jpg)
Some will know of his colourful past when he claimed to be a lawyer and acted in some capacity for many monsters such as Saddam Hussein, Harold Shipman, Charles Bronson, Ian Brady, Tariq Aziz and indeed Jeremy Bamber. Just to give you a little more insight, he was an friend and associate of former Serbian warlord Arkan who was gunned down in the lobby of a Belgrade hotel. I should add that he has also a long list of criminal convictions for fraud, has denied many of them when he was convicted as John Stefano (Giovanni means John in Italian). Just recently he was arrested in Spain on charges alleging further fraud and extradited back to the UK where he is now on bail. A trial date has been set for January 2013.
You can read all about him here... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Di_Stefano_%28businessman%29
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Anyway, to get back to the issue. When tweeted by admin he assumed by the name Miscarriage of Justice? (he missed the ? at the end) that our forum somehow supported Bamber and congratulated us for a job well done. He has since realised his mistake and has blocked us on twitter.
So so funny! @)(++(*
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Before the penny dropped he said something which got me thinking. He more or less admitted that Jeremy wanted to do things his own way and was the driving force behind his own campaign. It was his way or no way!
He was also adamant that there was a third party which I put down to Bamber himself. This is the story Bamber told Julie Mugford and has probably told Stefan the same sorry tale.
Stefan does not seem to have got to grips with the Bamber story and couldn't even accept that by the evidence and the imaginary telephone call that it had to be Jeremy Bamber or Sheila Caffell. His response to that question was "not necessarily".
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Before the penny dropped he said something which got me thinking. He more or less admitted that Jeremy wanted to do things his own way and was the driving force behind his own campaign. It was his way or no way!
He was also adamant that there was a third party which I put down to Bamber himself. This is the story Bamber told Julie Mugford and has probably told Stefan the same sorry tale.
Stefan does not seem to have got to grips with the Bamber story and couldn't even accept that by the evidence and the imaginary telephone call that it had to be Jeremy Bamber or Sheila Caffell. His response to that question was "not necessarily".
It is only fair to reproduce his last comments before he blocked us.
When asked if his trial in January would detract from his latest campaign to expose fraud at Rangers FC he replied:
21 Jul GIOVANNI DI STEFANO GIOVANNI DI STEFANO @DEVILSADVOKAT
@Justice_forum you mean "IF" there is to be a trial ... I am shareholder in RFC abd I will pursue my shareholder rights whatever and don't think for one moment I am fooled into believing your loyalty and support for RFC you are there to try and discredit me and any that support RFC through a vehicle pretending to stand up for justice ... It does not fool me or real RFC supporters
Did he say discredit? We believe his record speaks for itself.
As regards the trial in London in January, time will tell. ?>)()<
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It was rather amusing the other day when admin had an encounter with none other than Giovanni di Stefano.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Giovanni_Di_Stefano.jpg/220px-Giovanni_Di_Stefano.jpg)
Some will know of his colourful past when he claimed to be a lawyer and acted in some capacity for many monsters such as Saddam Hussein, Harold Shipman, Charles Bronson, Ian Brady, Tariq Aziz and indeed Jeremy Bamber. Just to give you a little more insight, he was an friend and associate of former Serbian warlord Arkan who was gunned down in the lobby of a Belgrade hotel. I should add that he has also a long list of criminal convictions for fraud, has denied many of them when he was convicted as John Stefano (Giovanni means John in Italian). Just recently he was arrested in Spain on charges alleging further fraud and extradited back to the UK where he is now on bail. A trial date has been set for January 2013.
You can read all about him here... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Di_Stefano_%28businessman%29
What I just don't get is how people like him can get anywhere near the courts pretending to be a lawyer. He must have some bare faced cheek and the knowledge to do it. I also notice that he isn't qualified in his home country of Italy or anywhere else by the looks of it. How many times has he been extradited exactly cause he must have the record he was even deported from the USA by the looks of it.
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As admin posts, time will tell whether there is a trial in January or not but I cannot see the CPS going to the bother of having him arrested in Spain and brought back if they were to then turn round and abandon the case against him.
Spain arrests lawyer linked to Saddam defense team
An Italian lawyer who acted as a consultant to Saddam Hussein's defense team has been arrested in Spain on suspicion of fraud, money laundering and practicing law without a licence on a warrant issued by Britain, officials said Tuesday.
Giovanni di Stefano was arrested Monday night in a mansion in Palma on Spain's Mediterranean island of Mallorca, a police official said.
Di Stefano was hospitalized after his arrest and will undergo surgery, the official said without elaborating. She spoke from Palma on condition on anonymity, in line with department rules.
Di Stefano has been living in Palma but the official said she did not know for how long.
An Interior Ministry statement said that between 2004 and 2009 di Stefano allegedly earned large sums of money in Britain, apparently without being licensed to practice law in that country. The statement quoted the European arrest order on the basis of which di Stefano was arrested.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/9502623
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1357284/Saddam-Hussein-Gary-Glitter-Ian-Bradys-lawyer-arrested-fraud.html
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Its a long road trip in a Spanish prison bus from Palma to Madrid so Giovanni has my sympathies. I believe they sometimes stop off at another Spanish prison on the way to split the journey.
I wonder what he thought of Centro Penitenciario de Valdemoro, also known as Madrid III as he enjoyed a short stay near Spain's capital city while awaiting his extradition hearing and transfer to London.
Been there Giovanni, worn the t-shirt mate! @)(++(*
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In an interview he once said Saddam and Milosovic were nice people....no wonder he got on so well with Jeremy!
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Does anyone think that if JB got out (which he won't), he try to make money from the glossy's (mags), the papers (tabloids), book deals or fil/programme deals etc? Or compensation from being locked up (which I believe is notoriously hard to get even for proven non-guilty people)?
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In an interview he once said Saddam and Milosovic were nice people....no wonder he got on so well with Jeremy!
...and now he wants to be the saviour of Rangers FC...what is that all about?
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Does anyone think that if JB got out (which he won't), he try to make money from the glossy's (mags), the papers (tabloids), book deals or fil/programme deals etc? Or compensation from being locked up (which I believe is notoriously hard to get even for proven non-guilty people)?
Well yes given that he is effectively penniless. If he were ever to get parole it would probably be on condition of that parole that he is gagged just like Eddie Gilfoyle was.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7we7CsYptU&feature=related
Do watch this, I taped it when it was on way back, if nothing else it's funny and you'll see why he is indeed the 'devils advocate'.
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Does anyone think that if JB got out (which he won't), he try to make money from the glossy's (mags), the papers (tabloids), book deals or fil/programme deals etc? Or compensation from being locked up (which I believe is notoriously hard to get even for proven non-guilty people)?
I agree Joanne,
That's exactly what Bamber would do. There are precedents - who can forget O.J Simpson's revoltingly tacky book after he was 'acquitted' that suggested if he was guilty 'this is how I would do it' and of course Sion Jenkins rather sanctimonious and bleating account of why he wasn't guilty (I think he is) of the murder of his step-daughter Billie-Jo Jenkins.While I totally agree with those who have been exonerated of a crime writing a book to inform others about possible Miscarriages of Justice, I do believe that there are some people that I believe to be guilty and have simply slipped through the net (thankfully I think this is rare) If Bamber ever did get out I have absolutely no doubt that he would - true-to-form - try to capitalise on it in a tacky, vulgar and undignified manner.
However, I am quite confident that this will never happen as Bamber will be incarcerated until the day he dies.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7we7CsYptU&feature=related
Do watch this, I taped it when it was on way back, if nothing else it's funny and you'll see why he is indeed the 'devils advocate'.
Excellent find Joanne. He refers to himself as a lawyer. That's the biggest lie! He claims to be a member of the American Bar Association which is fair enough. He even showed reporters a card showing him to be a member of the Association in 2004. This was confirmed by a spokesman for the organisation, who added: "Membership of the ABA does not qualify its members to practice law, nor is it a requirement to be admitted to the practice of law."
There you have it as they say!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1452809/Judge-asks-convicted-fraudster-to-prove-he-is-a-lawyer.html
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I've got Fred Dineage on in the background, he's just done a programme about Ruth Ellis. He came up with a conundrum,no one could work it out, so I'll ask you guys (and girls).
There's a massive crash on the M25 and in a car a man dies, in the same car is his small son who paramedics take to the hospital. At the hospital the surgeon says, "I cannot operate on him, he's my son"-how come?
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I've got Fred Dineage on in the background, he's just done a programme about Ruth Ellis. He came up with a conundrum,no one could work it out, so I'll ask you guys (and girls).
There's a massive crash on the M25 and in a car a man dies, in the same car is his small son who paramedics take to the hospital. At the hospital the surgeon says, "I cannot operate on him, he's my son"-how come?
Step son possibly? 8-)(--)
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Great answer, we all said that, they asked members of the public.
The surgeon is his Mum. They were saying about Ruth Ellis being hung and how people said she couldn't be a murderer, murderers are men, so they asked people the riddle because it seems a lot of us stereotype, male murderers, male sugeons etc.
Its genius, so flipping @)(++(*
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Great answer, we all said that, they asked members of the public.
The surgeon is his Mum. They were saying about Ruth Ellis being hung and how people said she couldn't be a murderer, murderers are men, so they asked people the riddle because it seems a lot of us stereotype, male murderers, male sugeons etc.
Its genius, so flipping @)(++(*
A good point Joanne. I know men think that way but I am surprised that most women do too? Just goes to show. 8@??)(
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What's happening with the JR? Has it been issued yet- does anyone know? The three months is up by now
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What's happening with the JR? Has it been issued yet- does anyone know? The three months is up by now
Not a sausage Frank.
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This might be worth a look, Are you good or evil?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzf73oEcUnE&feature=plcp
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This might be worth a look, Are you good or evil?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzf73oEcUnE&feature=plcp
Very interesting video Joanne. I must admit I enjoy watching the material you constantly put up, some of it is extremely valid to what we do here.
Thanks Joanne. 8((()*/
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That was such a humorous video you posted yesterday about crook Gionanni di Stefano. One of the best bits was when the BBC reporter asked his son which University his dad had studied law at. @)(++(*
The son thought for a moment and then said Cambridge!!! @)(++(*
What a looper.
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Thank you ?{)(**
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That was such a humorous video you posted yesterday about crook Gionanni di Stefano. One of the best bits was when the BBC reporter asked his son which University his dad had studied law at. @)(++(*
The son thought for a moment and then said Cambridge!!! @)(++(*
What a looper.
It should be pointed out of course that the issue of his legal qualifications is the subject of the forthcoming fraud trial in London. He claims to be and probably is a member of the American Bar Association. This is basically a club which anyone with a few bucks can buy into. The Association have stated that he was a member some time back but added that membership does not entitle anyone to practice Law.
Seems Gio should have read the small print! 8@??)(
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That was such a humorous video you posted yesterday about crook Gionanni di Stefano. One of the best bits was when the BBC reporter asked his son which University his dad had studied law at. @)(++(*
The son thought for a moment and then said Cambridge!!! @)(++(*
What a looper.
It should be pointed out of course that the issue of his legal qualifications is the subject of the forthcoming fraud trial in London. He claims to be and probably is a member of the American Bar Association. This is basically a club which anyone with a few bucks can buy into. The Association have stated that he was a member some time back but added that membership does not entitle anyone to practice Law.
Seems Gio should have read the small print! 8@??)(
He was kicked out of the USA a while back for being an undesirable so saying that he is a member of one of their elite clubs doesn't say much for that club imo. 8)--))
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For a small fee you can be qualified in anything and you get a certificate 8(0(*
Or so I'm told!
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For a small fee you can be qualified in anything and you get a certificate 8(0(*
Or so I'm told!
You can buy a Law degree from certain institutions in America but you have to go there for a while. A complete farce.
Something that I am very aware of having spent time growing a business in Spain is that Brits going over there with our qualifications are not taken seriously and will almost always never get the job. Look at what happens in the UK though, we take all comers and welcome them with open arms. The situation is diabolical and completely unfair.
I have lots of friends and business associates in Spain who are qualified electricians and engineers and who cannot get work. That is why so many ex-pat Brits set up on their own as I did was back in 2002.
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It looks like the Spanish economy is on its belly again if tonights news is anything to go by. They are looking for yet another bale out. Isn't it wonderful how all theses countries can spend spend spend when the good times are rolling but the minute the world economy puts the brakes on they go down the tubes. All that money spent on cities all over Spain and now they are broke they expect the European Central Bank to bale them out.
Personally I would let them sink.
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They can call me a woman etc.. and it doesn't even bother me. But at the moment I admit, I feel defeated.
You have no need to feel defeated, mat. It is they who are defeated and proved it by postings personal pictures of your son.
Personal pictures should never be posted by anyone other than yourself. Its is also illegal if they are doing in an attempt to bully you etc. makes no difference if the picture was already on the net mat.
I agree with Andrea but you probably know that already Mat. Re posting a picture which is already on the internet is one thing and that is my defence for doing it with Tracy but to post an original picture of a child is beyond belief especially when you don't know where they got it from.
Thanks Sika.
If I can help you with IP's just let me know Mat. I have a big list of them and who they belong to. Which user posted the picture by the way?
Thanks, John. Any help would be appreciated. I have their I.P.
IP: 86.1.44.145
IP: 86.1.44.145 is ....... 49 Canal Rd, Leeds, West Yorkshire LS12 2LX, UK
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Anyone have any info on Ian Hitchings (true crime blog writer)??? He claims he has contacts in high places that give him details of cases? Contacted as to where he got his misinformation he offers assistance suggesting you contact none other than:
Mr Giovanni Di Stefano.
Studio Legale Internazionale, Rome, Italia.
Is it me ,or are a high percentage of those involved in seeking justice,crime writing etc. just completely bonkers?
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No, it's not you. If they were any good, their actions would speak for themselves but instead they have to write stuff which is usually completely pants and promote themselves by any means available.
One such pest even takes money from people, they're a different kettle of fish altogether though.
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If the Tesko forum are having a blitz, lookout had better lookout.
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If the Tesko forum are having a blitz, lookout had better lookout.
8)><(
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It's going to be a very busy end to November for Jeremy Bamber what with the Judicial Review due to be heard on the 29 November and the European Court deciding on his whole life tariff the day before.
Here is a little insight on how Bamber perceives his pitiful position in relation to dying in prison.
Friday, 16 November 2012
Whole Life Tariff Reviews: 'Hope for the future, however tenuous that hope may be.'
On the 28th of November 2012, the European Grand Chamber will hear the appeal against my whole life tariff along with two other cases, Vinter and Moore.
Firstly I need to clarify what this case is actually about. Many people have assumed that if my case in the Grand Chamber is won then my tariff would be put back down to the original 25 years set by the trial judge. This is not the case. What my legal team has applied for is for a review to be inserted into my mandatory whole life sentence.
It is my position that the UK Government is in breach of Article 3 and article 5 (4) of the European Convention on Human Rights by imposing a whole life sentence without review, this amounts to ?inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.? But what does this actually mean?
In light of the January ruling that whole life tariff's are not in breach of human rights law, the only appropriate submission my legal team could make to the Grand Chamber is that there is no problem with a government applying a mandatory whole life sentence, but the breach of Human Rights Law lies within there being no mechanism for review of the prisoner's whole life sentence. It is then asserted, (and it is also my particular view) that a whole life order then becomes parallel with a death sentence. To order someone to die is to permanently exclude them from society and it then follows that to sentence a person to whole life imprisonment is also permanent social exclusion. Social death is a dimension of the slavery which replaced death in Classical society, and was and still is intrinsically linked to loss of liberty. As I have stated many times, I have been sentenced to death by old age.
This leads us to the psychological state of those incarcerated for whole life without reviews. It has been clarified by psychologists including those assessing me that I am at continued risk of having depression brought about by the prolonged environment of prison. I am in total agreement about life without hope, after all hope is what keeps the human spirit alive and without hope there is nothing. For me, even with the insertion of a review there is still very little hope of release. If the Grand Chamber rule to allow me to have reviews there is no knowing at what point a review could be placed, it might be at 30 or 40 years into a sentence. As I have maintained innocence, there lies the other difficulty of reviewing my prison term in light of this. Because I have maintained innocence I have not taken part in any rehabilitation programmes and neither can I be viewed as a prisoner who has gained atonement. The judiciary and review boards see me as being in denial of guilt. So when the European Court of Human Rights ruled against my appeal at Strasbourg in January 2012, the three dissenting judges emphasised that Article 3 was being infringed and their words rang true for me, "equally importantly depriving him of any hope for the future, however tenuous that hope may be." Tenuous, really is how I feel about this ruling even if we win in the Grand Chamber. After this digression, nevertheless the argument my lawyers have put forward is that this treatment, taking into account psychological effects does amount to inhuman and degrading treatment.
To this I have to agree wholeheartedly, respect for "hope" an essential dimension of human dignity does underpin the protection of human rights.
In the USA and China the death penalty still exists in contrast to Canada where there is no death penalty and no whole life sentencing. The USA, similarly to England and Wales currently has the sentence of "Life Without Parole" (LWOP) and in Florida the US Supreme Court commented broadly on the destructive impact of this sentence, "It deprives the convict of the most basic liberties without giving hope of restoration."
If you have always felt that England and Wales are soft on sentencing then think again because the statistics show otherwise. The position is that all majority state parties of Europe rule that life sentences must have reviews. Only England and Wales and Hungary have an authentically irreducible whole life sentence, England and Wales with almost 21 times more life sentenced prisoners than any other single European country and we currently have more whole life sentence prisoners than all of Europe put together. The first whole life tariff in the UK was set in 1988, and in 2003 reviews at executive discretion for these prisoners was abolished (under a Labour government). Although Scotland's sentencing is generally similar to England and Wales their human rights laws were brought into line with Europe at the time of the devolution of powers.
Whole life tariff prisoners cannot be subject to a prerogative pardon. The only mechanism for release of a prisoner (other than to overturn their conviction) on a whole life sentence in England and Wales is granted in exceptional circumstances, where the prisoner is medically incapacitated with death to occur within 3 months and no life sentence prisoner has ever been released under this or any other power in England and Wales. This exception compounds the view that a whole life sentence is literally a death sentence.
As I am not guilty of the crimes I have been convicted of carrying out, where do I fit in all of this? Currently the only avenue to appeal is through the politically controlled quango of the Criminal Cases Review Commission. When this avenue is exhausted because the commission has usurped the role of the appeal courts and is in violation of the Criminal Appeals Act 1995, and non disclosure of evidential materials still prevails, surely this is a violation of both Article 3 and 5(4) of European Human Rights Law, and should be taken into consideration when assessing whole life sentences. As crime is intrinsically tied to sentencing it is axiomatic that the problem of Miscarriage of Justice cases could be expanded within this framework simply because a Miscarriage of Justice in UK law does not allow for innocence but only a "miscarriage of due process."
If we are to believe the statistics quoted by Dr Michael Naughton as opposed to the Government's 'massaged figures' we face a very worrying situation indeed. Naughton reveals that there are no less than 18 convictions a day over turned in the UK which is an astonishing figure warranting a full review of the causes of wrongful convictions. Indeed, Naughton himself states: "miscarriages of justice as understood from the perspective of the legal system are not the exception to the rule, rather they are a routine and even mundane feature of the criminal justice process."
It is of course, with my own conviction and these statistics in mind when I consider what a whole life sentence means to the individuals living a 'social death' as I do each day. But whatever happens on the 28th of November this year it will make little difference to my current life, release for me with my conviction intact means no life at all. There is only one freedom and one hope for me and that is that the truth of my innocence will be heard in a court of Law allowing me the liberty I have been fighting for.
http://t.co/g06TQVFZ
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Well, even if he wins in the European Court ( and it wouldnt surprise me if he did) the Uk authorities wont be letting him out anyway so its irrelevant. Of more relevance is his JR - cant wait for that one: its in the diary!.
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As I sit here in a Belfast A&E, I have had a chance to read Bambers blog a few times and I can see that he really is feeling sorry for himself as the two most important days in his legal calender approach. What exactly does Jeremy want?
Does he want to be exonerated for a most dreadful crime which he committed in haste and with greed in his heart. It appears to me that he doesn't want released for as long as his conviction endures. So why bother with the ECHR at all?
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As I sit here in a Belfast A&E, I have had a chance to read Bambers blog a few times and I can see that he really is feeling sorry for himself as the two most important days in his legal calender approach. What exactly does Jeremy want?
Does he want to be exonerated for a most dreadful crime which he committed in haste and with greed in his heart. It appears to me that he doesn't want released for as long as his conviction endures. So why bother with the ECHR at all?
Desperate man, John. Always good to have a back-up plan. I think the fact that he's gonig after the ECHR as much as he is... shows that he is well aware he won't be getting out due to any appeal.
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Surely the point of prison is to deprive one of one's liberty? That is why it's a punishment. Far greater than the death penalty in my opinion. This proves that prisoners do suffer by being locked up and that prison is far from the "cushy holiday camp" it is often perceived to be by some. In a way they suffer more than they would be being sentenced to death, as at least with a death sentence the punishment is not drawn out for a long period of time.
A minor point but if he doesn't like prison maybe he shouldn't have murdered five people?
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As I sit here in a Belfast A&E, I have had a chance to read Bambers blog a few times and I can see that he really is feeling sorry for himself as the two most important days in his legal calender approach. What exactly does Jeremy want?
Does he want to be exonerated for a most dreadful crime which he committed in haste and with greed in his heart. It appears to me that he doesn't want released for as long as his conviction endures. So why bother with the ECHR at all?
I wonder who writes that stuff for him? At least he doesn't sanction the cobblers about a police officer shooting Sheila. And she very obviously didn't shoot herself....
I'm sorry to hear that you're in A and E, John. I hope everyone is OK.
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As I sit here in a Belfast A&E, I have had a chance to read Bambers blog a few times and I can see that he really is feeling sorry for himself as the two most important days in his legal calender approach. What exactly does Jeremy want?
Does he want to be exonerated for a most dreadful crime which he committed in haste and with greed in his heart. It appears to me that he doesn't want released for as long as his conviction endures. So why bother with the ECHR at all?
I wonder who writes that stuff for him? At least he doesn't sanction the cobblers about a police officer shooting Sheila. And she very obviously didn't shoot herself....
I'm sorry to hear that you're in A and E, John. I hope everyone is OK.
I have always wondered that too Shona. The language just doesn't sound like something Bamber would write. I have a suspicion he sends out a draft and someone improves it. They mustn't be very good though as there were words missing. I improved the copy I posted.
Re the A&E, I ran over a Blumpkin pie this morning and had to give it first aid before taking it to hospital. No, actually my youngest had a head-on collision in an away schools rugby match and was taken to hospital. I had to drive there and sit with him most of the day. He's ok but a bit concussed. The joys of single parenthood.
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As I sit here in a Belfast A&E, I have had a chance to read Bambers blog a few times and I can see that he really is feeling sorry for himself as the two most important days in his legal calender approach. What exactly does Jeremy want?
Does he want to be exonerated for a most dreadful crime which he committed in haste and with greed in his heart. It appears to me that he doesn't want released for as long as his conviction endures. So why bother with the ECHR at all?
I wonder who writes that stuff for him? At least he doesn't sanction the cobblers about a police officer shooting Sheila. And she very obviously didn't shoot herself....
I'm sorry to hear that you're in A and E, John. I hope everyone is OK.
I have always wondered that too Shona. The language just doesn't sould like something Bamber could write. I have a suspicion he sends out a draft and someone improves it. They mustn't be very good though as there were words missing. I improved the copy I posted.
Re the A&E, I ran over a Blumpkin pie this morning and had to give it first aid before taking it to hospital. No, actually my youngest had a head-on collision in an away schools rugby match and was taken to hospital. I had to drive there and sit with him most of the day. He's ok but a bit concussed. The joys of single parenthood.
I'm guessing you haven't googled blumpkin pie, John!! I'm glad your youngest is OK. I've spent far too many yonks in various A and Es, with daughters who have come croppers off ponies. And once with one who was knocked over by 2 whippets and brained herself. We sat for 5 hours on a Friday night, waiting to be seen, with a lump on her head the size of an Easter egg, till a little drunk woman came in shouting that she'd got a bomb in her handbag, so we went home. The joys of Birmingham.
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As I sit here in a Belfast A&E, I have had a chance to read Bambers blog a few times and I can see that he really is feeling sorry for himself as the two most important days in his legal calender approach. What exactly does Jeremy want?
Does he want to be exonerated for a most dreadful crime which he committed in haste and with greed in his heart. It appears to me that he doesn't want released for as long as his conviction endures. So why bother with the ECHR at all?
I wonder who writes that stuff for him? At least he doesn't sanction the cobblers about a police officer shooting Sheila. And she very obviously didn't shoot herself....
I'm sorry to hear that you're in A and E, John. I hope everyone is OK.
I have always wondered that too Shona. The language just doesn't sound like something Bamber would write. I have a suspicion he sends out a draft and someone improves it. They mustn't be very good though as there were words missing. I improved the copy I posted.
Re the A&E, I ran over a Blumpkin pie this morning and had to give it first aid before taking it to hospital. No, actually my youngest had a head-on collision in an away schools rugby match and was taken to hospital. I had to drive there and sit with him most of the day. He's ok but a bit concussed. The joys of single parenthood.
Scary stuff, John! Glad he is okay.
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The blue forum have been parrotting the same old sentiments about the fact that MOJ's can and do occur therefore it is possible that Bamber's case is a MOJ. I do accept that in some high profile murder cases there have been people who have been wrongly imprisoned. However, the reason why this has happened in my opinion is because police are under pressure to get a result quickly. The general public want to feel safe and they do not feel safe when a murderer is known to be on the loose. However, in Bamber's case there was no reason at all to go after him to make the public feel safe. Didn't the murder scene clearly suggest what had happened and that the murderer had committed suicide?
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He is still deluded enough to think that his conviction may be quashed anytime soon. If the JR is thrown out in 10 day's time ( I assume he wont try to appeal it to the Court of Appeal), McKay will probably ditch him. Then (and only then) will Bamber realise the games up and his best option ( assuming he wins in Europe) is to admit to the crime.
As I sit here in a Belfast A&E, I have had a chance to read Bambers blog a few times and I can see that he really is feeling sorry for himself as the two most important days in his legal calender approach. What exactly does Jeremy want?
Does he want to be exonerated for a most dreadful crime which he committed in haste and with greed in his heart. It appears to me that he doesn't want released for as long as his conviction endures. So why bother with the ECHR at all?
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He is still deluded enough to think that his conviction may be quashed anytime soon. If the JR is thrown out in 10 day's time ( I assume he wont try to appeal it to the Court of Appeal), McKay will probably ditch him. Then (and only then) will Bamber realise the games up and his best option ( assuming he wins in Europe) is to admit to the crime.
As I sit here in a Belfast A&E, I have had a chance to read Bambers blog a few times and I can see that he really is feeling sorry for himself as the two most important days in his legal calender approach. What exactly does Jeremy want?
Does he want to be exonerated for a most dreadful crime which he committed in haste and with greed in his heart. It appears to me that he doesn't want released for as long as his conviction endures. So why bother with the ECHR at all?
What a choice though, Frank. The life he has now, or admitting once and for all that he murdered Daniel and Nicholas, and living the last few years of his life even more despised than he is now.
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The blue forum have been parrotting the same old sentiments about the fact that MOJ's can and do occur therefore it is possible that Bamber's case is a MOJ. I do accept that in some high profile murder cases there have been people who have been wrongly imprisoned. However, the reason why this has happened in my opinion is because police are under pressure to get a result quickly. The general public want to feel safe and they do not feel safe when a murderer is known to be on the loose. However, in Bamber's case there was no reason at all to go after him to make the public feel safe. Didn't the murder scene clearly suggest what had happened and that the murderer had committed suicide?
Yes and there was no reason for the police to go after Jeremy. After all, four murders and a suicide would have been a nice clean cut result, no tail ends nobody to complain that they had been wrongly convicted.
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He is still deluded enough to think that his conviction may be quashed anytime soon. If the JR is thrown out in 10 day's time ( I assume he wont try to appeal it to the Court of Appeal), McKay will probably ditch him. Then (and only then) will Bamber realise the games up and his best option ( assuming he wins in Europe) is to admit to the crime.
As I sit here in a Belfast A&E, I have had a chance to read Bambers blog a few times and I can see that he really is feeling sorry for himself as the two most important days in his legal calender approach. What exactly does Jeremy want?
Does he want to be exonerated for a most dreadful crime which he committed in haste and with greed in his heart. It appears to me that he doesn't want released for as long as his conviction endures. So why bother with the ECHR at all?
I don't think he has the bottle to admit to it now frank, he would lose all those hangers-on which he cares so much about and then he would have nobody. Reading between the lines of that blog which I sat and read on my Blackberry yesterday he is determined to see it through to the end.
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I agree John. Bamber knows that there can be no redemption for the premeditated execution of children in their sleep and purely to gain their inheritance. There is a very good argument that Bamber's stone cold cynical murders are worse than the likes of s..m like Huntley
The law obviously considers Bamber worse than Huntley as evidenced by his whole life tariff!
PS: Glad your lad is ok John! 8((()*/
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I think that Mike felt that he had a bit of a eureka moment when he thought that the wounds on Ralph's arm were caused by the gun without the silencer. Sadly, they were done with the sight. I too had a eureka moment, when I realised that there wasn't a single spot or speck of expirated blood on Sheila's face, thus proving that she never moved or was conscious after the first shot. My eureka moment was better. 8**8:/:
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I think that Mike felt that he had a bit of a eureka moment when he thought that the wounds on Ralph's arm were caused by the gun without the silencer. Sadly, they were done with the sight. I too had a eureka moment, when I realised that there wasn't a single spot or speck of expirated blood on Sheila's face, thus proving that she never moved or was conscious after the first shot. My eureka moment was better. 8**8:/:
Eureka!
In all the discussions of Bamber there are numerous people who, having been exposed to the evidence, have moved from innocent to guilty! Only one person has moved from guilty to innocent; that person being one Mrs. Hall. Says it all really!
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I agree John. Bamber knows that there can be no redemption for the premeditated execution of children in their sleep and purely to gain their inheritance. There is a very good argument that Bamber's stone cold cynical murders are worse than the likes of s..m like Huntley
The law obviously considers Bamber worse than Huntley as evidenced by his whole life tariff!
PS: Glad your lad is ok John! 8((()*/
Thanks Tim, I'd hate to think what would have happened if he wasn't wearing his skull cap. 8(8-))
These little incidents tend to bring you back to reality with a bump. Shona mentioned one of her girls having a fall from a horse and it reminded me of an incident near me a few weeks ago when a young 11-year-old girl fell from her horse and the horse fell on her. She was killed instantly...that must have been awful for her parents.
You cannot wrap the young uns up in cotton wool either.
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I think that Mike felt that he had a bit of a eureka moment when he thought that the wounds on Ralph's arm were caused by the gun without the silencer. Sadly, they were done with the sight. I too had a eureka moment, when I realised that there wasn't a single spot or speck of expirated blood on Sheila's face, thus proving that she never moved or was conscious after the first shot. My eureka moment was better. 8**8:/:
Too right Shona, its quite a no-brainer. I don't understand how Patti can't see through that rubbish though, she strikes me as an intelligent independent thinking lass. 8-)(--)
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I think that Mike felt that he had a bit of a eureka moment when he thought that the wounds on Ralph's arm were caused by the gun without the silencer. Sadly, they were done with the sight. I too had a eureka moment, when I realised that there wasn't a single spot or speck of expirated blood on Sheila's face, thus proving that she never moved or was conscious after the first shot. My eureka moment was better. 8**8:/:
Eureka!
In all the discussions of Bamber there are numerous people who, having been exposed to the evidence, have moved from innocent to guilty! Only one person has moved from guilty to innocent; that person being one Mrs. Hall. Says it all really!
Will I let you into yet another little secret. She told me on several occasions that she doesn't know if he is guilty or innocent. She is just flying with the crows sort of speak.
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Well each of the 3 witches needed their pet killer to
stalk campaign for ... Bamber, Duane king and Simon Hall!
Steph had to change her mind to fit in with Miss P.
8-)(--)
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I find his lamenting in that blog to be rather disturbing. I get the impression that the chickens have come home to roost at last. He will have two court decisions over two consecutive days on the 28th and 29th November, both decisions have the potential to be life changing and he knows it. If they both fail he knows that he will not get the chance again for a very long time.
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I find his lamenting in that blog to be rather disturbing. I get the impression that the chickens have come home to roost at last. He will have two court decisions over two consecutive days on the 28th and 29th November, both decisions have the potential to be life changing and he knows it. If they both fail he knows that he will not get the chance again for a very long time.
That will be two interesting days. I will be shocked if Bamber doesn't fail miserably as usual! Then on 3rd December hopefully the courts will finally send Shrien Dewani to South Africa to stand trial ... poor lad claims he is too depressed to stand trial. Awwwwww shame! I imagine most killers who get caught feel a little depressed ... do the right thing courts!
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Looks like Bamber is stuffed if today's ruling on whole life tariff cases is anything to go by...
The Court of Appeal has upheld the principle of whole life sentences for the most dangerous of offenders, saying it does not breach human rights.
The Lord Chief Justice and four judges said jail without the possibility of release should be "reserved for the few exceptionally serious offences".
He said judges must be convinced those sentenced to whole life need to be held forever for punishment and retribution.
It comes a week before an appeal by Jeremy Bamber and two murderers.
Bamber and two others will be seeking to overturn their whole life tariffs at the Grand Chamber of the European Court of Human Rights.
The judgement effectively sends a signal to the Strasbourg judges that the courts in England and Wales are content that whole life tariffs are justified and that the power to jail someone forever should not be overturned.
Read more... (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20433191)
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Ouch.
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I think it would be safe to say that Bamber falls within the category of one of the most dangerous offenders given he murdered five members of his own family in cold blood including two 6-year-old kids as they slept.
The threats he has made against his remaining family will undoubtedly keep him inside for many years to come.
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Ouch.
It's so good to see justice being served! It happens so rarely these days but Bamber's case continues to be an exception!
8@??)(
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Interesting you think Dewani is guilty - I tend to agree. Im not sure they are going to order him to go to South Africa though anytime soon. His depression is better but hes got PTSD. I have no sympathy for him and am certain that there is no conspiracy to protect South Africa's tourist industry as suggested in some quarters
Im also not sure what is going to happen in the Grand Chamber on Bamber. The European Court is quite
unpredictable and liberal at times. He could well win. Did you see that the Court of Appeal yesterday reaffirmed the principle of whole life tarrifs, delberately just ahead of the Grand Chamber hearing?
I find his lamenting in that blog to be rather disturbing. I get the impression that the chickens have come home to roost at last. He will have two court decisions over two consecutive days on the 28th and 29th November, both decisions have the potential to be life changing and he knows it. If they both fail he knows that he will not get the chance again for a very long time.
That will be two interesting days. I will be shocked if Bamber doesn't fail miserably as usual! Then on 3rd December hopefully the courts will finally send Shrien Dewani to South Africa to stand trial ... poor lad claims he is too depressed to stand trial. Awwwwww shame! I imagine most killers who get caught feel a little depressed ... do the right thing courts!
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I adjusted your post frank...you left off a [ bracket.
The Dewani affair is an interesting case. Please tell me if I get this wrong but didn't the first two African guys state that he paid the to abduct them and shoot his wife while the third guy who was convicted recently has denied this? We don't want to fall foul of any subjudice rules by pre-empting the outcome.
I personally believe he should have returned to South Africa immediately if he had nothing to hide and his failure to do so says much about him. The illness is rather convenient as in many of these cases.
It could be that two of the Africans were in the know about the abduction while the third guy just happened to be with them.
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John can we have a Shrien/Anni Dewani thread please. This is a fascinating case and a very important court ruling is due on 3rd Deccember, does he get extradicted back to South Africa or not?
I consider that this is a MOJ case in as much as Shrien Dewani is attempting to avoid justice by manipulating his medical 'conditions' to avoid answering in court the charges laid before him. Anni was a beautiful innocent just like Sheila Caffel and in my opinion her husband must be made to return to South Africa and face trial!
Thank's John. 8((()*/
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John can we have a Shrien/Anni Dewani thread please. This is a fascinating case and a very important court ruling is due on 3rd Deccember, does he get extradicted back to South Africa or not?
I consider that this is a MOJ case in as much as Shrien Dewani is attempting to avoid justice by manipulating his medical 'conditions' to avoid answering in court the charges laid before him. Anni was a beautiful innocent just like Sheila Caffel and in my opinion her husband must be made to return to South Africa and face trial!
Thank's John. 8((()*/
Certainly Tim. Consider it done. 8((()*/
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John can we have a Shrien/Anni Dewani thread please. This is a fascinating case and a very important court ruling is due on 3rd Deccember, does he get extradicted back to South Africa or not?
I consider that this is a MOJ case in as much as Shrien Dewani is attempting to avoid justice by manipulating his medical 'conditions' to avoid answering in court the charges laid before him. Anni was a beautiful innocent just like Sheila Caffel and in my opinion her husband must be made to return to South Africa and face trial!
Thank's John. 8((()*/
Certainly Tim. Consider it done. 8((()*/
Cheers John m8 ... you don't let the grass grow under ya feet do ya!!!! 8@??)(
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John can we have a Shrien/Anni Dewani thread please. This is a fascinating case and a very important court ruling is due on 3rd Deccember, does he get extradicted back to South Africa or not?
I consider that this is a MOJ case in as much as Shrien Dewani is attempting to avoid justice by manipulating his medical 'conditions' to avoid answering in court the charges laid before him. Anni was a beautiful innocent just like Sheila Caffel and in my opinion her husband must be made to return to South Africa and face trial!
Thank's John. 8((()*/
Certainly Tim. Consider it done. 8((()*/
Cheers John m8 ... you don't let the grass grow under ya feet do ya!!!! 8@??)(
I've got special sandals! @)(++(*
(http://www.gwoltal.myfastmail.com/files/Grass%20Under%20feet.jpg)
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Its a good job the MPs in this country havent anything to do with justice decisions after the mess they have made of the Sgt Nightingale saga.
Trying to put pressure on the Attorney General to intervene in a live case just because the guy is a soldier is an insult to the rest of the population who put their faith in our justice system.Shame on them I say.
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It"s going to be a busy week for Simon Mckay what with the Bamber case and the Danny Nightingale sentence appeal as well. How on earth will McKay be able to do justice to both cases if the full hearings are on the same day ie Thursday 29 November?
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It"s going to be a busy week for Simon Mckay what with the Bamber case and the Danny Nightingale sentence appeal as well. How on earth will McKay be able to do justice to both cases if the full hearings are on the same day ie Thursday 29 November?
I am sure McKay has an extensive staff of qualified people in his 'chambers' ... I believe she is called a cleaning lady!
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It"s going to be a busy week for Simon Mckay what with the Bamber case and the Danny Nightingale sentence appeal as well. How on earth will McKay be able to do justice to both cases if the full hearings are on the same day ie Thursday 29 November?
I am sure McKay has an extensive staff of qualified people in his 'chambers' ... I believe she is called a cleaning lady!
I would have thought that he would have wanted to deal with them both personally. As you say he can always farm it out to another advocate or even a QC if the budget allows.
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I haven't had much time recently to post but I must say I am really looking forward to next weeks court hearings which will hopefully put the Bamber case to rest for ever and give the family the peace they so deserve. I have no doubt whatsoever that both the European Court and the Royal Courts will do the right thing in the end and bring this monumental fiasco to its rightful conclusion. 8@??)(
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I haven't had much time recently to post but I must say I am really looking forward to next weeks court hearings which will hopefully put the Bamber case to rest for ever and give the family the peace they so deserve. I have no doubt whatsoever that both the European Court and the Royal Courts will do the right thing in the end and bring this monumental fiasco to its rightful conclusion. 8@??)(
Totally agree Sandra and good to see you back again.
There can only be one outcome given the evidence. Justice will prevail.
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It sure will!
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Don't forget everyone...as if you would! @)(++(*
The Grand Chamber of the European Court will make a final decision on the whole life tariff issue tomorrow. Here's hoping sense will prevail and that June, Nevill, Sheila, Daniel and Nicholas get justice.
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Very funny. From the look of his website it could well be the cleaner. Is he doing the European Court case too - thought it was someone else?
It"s going to be a busy week for Simon Mckay what with the Bamber case and the Danny Nightingale sentence appeal as well. How on earth will McKay be able to do justice to both cases if the full hearings are on the same day ie Thursday 29 November?
I am sure McKay has an extensive staff of qualified people in his 'chambers' ... I believe she is called a cleaning lady!
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In the court below Bamber was represented Mr B. Woods, a lawyer practising in Leeds with Cousins Tyrer Solicitors, assisted by Mr R. Horwell QC and Mr L. Hindmarsh, counsel. according to the website of the European Court
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There wont be a judgment tomorrow - it will be reserved to a future date. It may be on the ECtHR webiste live - many cases are broadcast live on the web.
Don't forget everyone...as if you would! @)(++(*
The Grand Chamber of the European Court will make a final decision on the whole life tariff issue tomorrow. Here's hoping sense will prevail and that June, Nevill, Sheila, Daniel and Nicholas get justice.
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There wont be a judgment tomorrow - it will be reserved to a future date. It may be on the ECtHR webiste live - many cases are broadcast live on the web.
Don't forget everyone...as if you would! @)(++(*
The Grand Chamber of the European Court will make a final decision on the whole life tariff issue tomorrow. Here's hoping sense will prevail and that June, Nevill, Sheila, Daniel and Nicholas get justice.
I didn't realise that Frank I thought they had already done the deliberating part and it was just a decision session.
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Don't forget everyone...as if you would! @)(++(*
The Grand Chamber of the European Court will make a final decision on the whole life tariff issue tomorrow. Here's hoping sense will prevail and that June, Nevill, Sheila, Daniel and Nicholas get justice.
There is little to worry about. My understanding is that Bamber and the other killers are challenging the fact there no reviews of Whole Life Tariffs once they have been imposed. They are just trying to get periodic reviews mandatory and in my opinion there is next to no chance of them being successful!
Fingers crossed though eh Dave!
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On 28 November 2012 at 9.15 a.m: Grand Chamber hearing in the
case Vinter and Others v. the United Kingdom (nos. 66069/09,
130/10 and 3896/10)
The applicants, Douglas Gary Vinter, Jeremy Neville Bamber and Peter Howard Moore,
are British nationals who were born in 1969, 1961 and 1946 respectively. All three men
are currently serving sentences of life imprisonment for murder
Mr Vinter was convicted of stabbing his wife in February 2008, having already been
convicted of murdering a work colleague in 1996. Mr Bamber was convicted of shooting
and killing his adoptive parents, sister and her two young children in August 1985.
Mr Moore was convicted of stabbing four men with a large combat knife between
September and December 1995. When convicted the applicants were given whole life
orders, meaning they cannot be released other than at the discretion of the Secretary of
State on compassionate grounds (for example, if they are terminally ill or seriously
incapacitated).
Relying in particular on Article 3 (prohibition of inhuman or degrading treatment) of the
European Convention on Human Rights, all three applicants complain that their
imprisonment without hope of release is cruel and amounts to inhuman and degrading
treatment.
The applications were lodged with the European Court of Human Rights on 11 December
2009, 17 December 2009 and 6 January 2010, respectively. In its judgment of 17
January 2012, the Court held, by four votes to three, that there had been no violation of
Article 3 of the Convention. The case (covering all three joined applications) was referred
to the Grand Chamber at the request of all three applicants.
http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/sites/fra/pages/search.aspx?i=001-108610#
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Remember that the hearing starts at 8.15am UK time.
Video: Admissibility to the ECHR. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcbDDhs5ZVA&feature=plcp&context=C30efc93UDOEgsToPDskIpNWkEvYZOOvxrNxqMNLEe)
Council of Europe - Live Web TV (http://webtv.coe.int/index.php?CategoryID=56763&SubCategoryID=56764)
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In a nutshell this is what Jeremy Bamber is contesting.
In the case of Mr Bamber, the High Court concluded that, given the number of murders
involved, the presence of premeditation, the submissions by the victims’ next-of-kin as
well as reports on the behaviour and progress he had made in prison, there was no
reason to depart from the view held in 1988 by the Lord Chief of Justice and the
Secretary of State that he should never be released.
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In a nutshell this is what Jeremy Bamber is contesting.
In the case of Mr Bamber, the High Court concluded that, given the number of murders
involved, the presence of premeditation, the submissions by the victims’ next-of-kin as
well as reports on the behaviour and progress he had made in prison, there was no
reason to depart from the view held in 1988 by the Lord Chief of Justice and the
Secretary of State that he should never be released.
Does that mean that the Lord Chief of Justice and Secretary of State (Home Secretary?) decided ion 1988 that Bamber deserved a whole life tarrif but only actually informed Bamber in 1994? Strange!
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In a nutshell this is what Jeremy Bamber is contesting.
In the case of Mr Bamber, the High Court concluded that, given the number of murders
involved, the presence of premeditation, the submissions by the victims’ next-of-kin as
well as reports on the behaviour and progress he had made in prison, there was no
reason to depart from the view held in 1988 by the Lord Chief of Justice and the
Secretary of State that he should never be released.
Does that mean that the Lord Chief of Justice and Secretary of State (Home Secretary?) decided ion 1988 that Bamber deserved a whole life tarrif but only actually informed Bamber in 1994? Strange!
Bamber's blog, obviously written by someone who paid a bit more attention at school, states "without hope there is nothing." The usual self-serving slop. What hope did he afford those two sleeping six year old boys when he coldly executed them? Roll on justice unfolding.
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The decision by the European Court of Human Rights isn't expected until next year at the earliest. How long does it take to say "NON" ?
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Hearing details for tomorrow's JR . Sir John Thomas is President of the Queens Bench Division - quite tough. Dont know Globe.
___________________________________________
COURT 3
Before SIR JOHN THOMAS PQBD and MR JUSTICE GLOBE
Thursday 29 November, 2012
At half past 10
Applications for Permission
CO/6487/2012 The Queen on the application of Bamber v Criminal Cases Review Commission
Is the judge's rejection decision expected tomorrow?
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Very likely, yes. If they are dealing with permission they normally decide on the day.
Hearing details for tomorrow's JR . Sir John Thomas is President of the Queens Bench Division - quite tough. Dont know Globe.
___________________________________________
COURT 3
Before SIR JOHN THOMAS PQBD and MR JUSTICE GLOBE
Thursday 29 November, 2012
At half past 10
Applications for Permission
CO/6487/2012 The Queen on the application of Bamber v Criminal Cases Review Commission
Is the judge's rejection decision expected tomorrow?
-
Very likely, yes. If they are dealing with permission they normally decide on the day.
Hearing details for tomorrow's JR . Sir John Thomas is President of the Queens Bench Division - quite tough. Dont know Globe.
___________________________________________
COURT 3
Before SIR JOHN THOMAS PQBD and MR JUSTICE GLOBE
Thursday 29 November, 2012
At half past 10
Applications for Permission
CO/6487/2012 The Queen on the application of Bamber v Criminal Cases Review Commission
Is the judge's rejection decision expected tomorrow?
Should be quite a day then all in all! 8((()*/
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Very likely, yes. If they are dealing with permission they normally decide on the day.
Hearing details for tomorrow's JR . Sir John Thomas is President of the Queens Bench Division - quite tough. Dont know Globe.
___________________________________________
COURT 3
Before SIR JOHN THOMAS PQBD and MR JUSTICE GLOBE
Thursday 29 November, 2012
At half past 10
Applications for Permission
CO/6487/2012 The Queen on the application of Bamber v Criminal Cases Review Commission
Is the judge's rejection decision expected tomorrow?
Should be quite a day then all in all! 8((()*/
Looks like tomorrow will see an end to it and about time too in my opinion. This farce has gone on for over 27 years so it is only right that it is ended now.
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Very likely, yes. If they are dealing with permission they normally decide on the day.
Hearing details for tomorrow's JR . Sir John Thomas is President of the Queens Bench Division - quite tough. Dont know Globe.
___________________________________________
COURT 3
Before SIR JOHN THOMAS PQBD and MR JUSTICE GLOBE
Thursday 29 November, 2012
At half past 10
Applications for Permission
CO/6487/2012 The Queen on the application of Bamber v Criminal Cases Review Commission
Is the judge's rejection decision expected tomorrow?
Should be quite a day then all in all! 8((()*/
Looks like tomorrow will see an end to it and about time too in my opinion. This farce has gone on for over 27 years so it is only right that it is ended now.
For what it is worth, IMO there is a fair chance that the European Court will make a decision which will require the UK Government to introduce procedures to review whole life sentences. I do not think that this will benefit Bamber very much though in the foreseeable future.
The current UK Government hates interference by the ECHR and if anything a favourable judgement might prove counterproductive for Bamber, Vintner and Moore. As for today's hearing for Bamber's JR application, I will be amazed if the decision is to Bamber's benefit and will make a generous donation to a children's charity in memory of the 6 year old twins he slaughtered if it is allowed. Even then, at the end of the day I am pretty confident that the CCRC will stick to its decision even if compelled to review their procedures. So, Mr Bamber would be well advised to order his Christmas prison menu for 2012 and 13 and ,,,,,
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I watched this a while ago, it's gone from You Tube, it only looks like clips can be watched now though.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01dk5s9
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http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/eu/cases/ECHR/2011/324.html&query=title+(+jeremy+)+and+title+(+bamber+)&method=boolean
I think thats something he went to the ECHR before but I haven't read it all yet.
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Bamber is in good company for him with that pair of s..mbags on his application to th ECHR. 11 murders between them!