UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: adam on November 30, 2014, 07:18:36 PM
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Jeremy's supporters are always claiming he would not have the opportunity to dispose of his massacre night clothes. Am I missing something ?
The clothes may not have ended up with much blood anyway. June, Sheila and the twins were shot without resistance. By a long rifle. So unlikely that any back splatter would hit Jeremy.
Neville also received his first four shots from a distance. There was a kitchen fight, but unless they were rolling around on the floor, Jeremy would have remained virtually blood free. Certainly most of it would go after a washing machine spin. He may have even met the police without changing. Just putting extra layers on. He was well clothed for August.
Anyway if he was covered in blood, he had a month to dispose of the evidence. During this time he went on several jolly ups with Brett, Julie and other buddies. To London, Eastbourne, Amsterdam & St Tropez. So could have disposed of clothes anywhere in England, or in two other countries.
Or he could even dispose of the clothes on the night. He knew the farm land very well.
Do other people think Jeremy did or did not have plenty of time to dispose of clothes ?
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Jeremy's supporters are always claiming he would not have the opportunity to dispose of his massacre night clothes. Am I missing something ?
The clothes may not have ended up with much blood anyway. June, Sheila and the twins were shot without resistance. By a long rifle. So unlikely that any back splatter would hit Jeremy.
Neville also received his first four shots from a distance. There was a kitchen fight, but unless they were rolling around on the floor, Jeremy would have remained virtually blood free. Certainly most of it would go after a washing machine spin. He may have even met the police without changing. Just putting extra layers on. He was well clothed for August.
Anyway if he was covered in blood, he had a month to dispose of the evidence. During this time he went on several jolly ups with Brett, Julie and other buddies. To London, Eastbourne, Amsterdam & St Tropez. So could have disposed of clothes anywhere in England, or in two other countries.
Or he could even dispose of the clothes on the night. He knew the farm land very well.
Do other people think Jeremy did or did not have plenty of time to dispose of clothes ?
These murders were premeditated, Jerry had all the time in the world to conceive his murderous plan. Hiding a change of clothing was the least of his problems.
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These murders were premeditated, Jerry had all the time in the world to conceive his murderous plan. Hiding a change of clothing was the least of his problems.
Strange. Even today, supporters were putting in a lot of effort to dispute that he could easily dispose of his murder clothes.
If they believe him innocent surely better arguments can be brought to the table.
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Jeremy's supporters are always claiming he would not have the opportunity to dispose of his massacre night clothes. Am I missing something ?
The clothes may not have ended up with much blood anyway. June, Sheila and the twins were shot without resistance. By a long rifle. So unlikely that any back splatter would hit Jeremy.
Neville also received his first four shots from a distance. There was a kitchen fight, but unless they were rolling around on the floor, Jeremy would have remained virtually blood free. Certainly most of it would go after a washing machine spin. He may have even met the police without changing. Just putting extra layers on. He was well clothed for August.
Anyway if he was covered in blood, he had a month to dispose of the evidence. During this time he went on several jolly ups with Brett, Julie and other buddies. To London, Eastbourne, Amsterdam & St Tropez. So could have disposed of clothes anywhere in England, or in two other countries.
Or he could even dispose of the clothes on the night. He knew the farm land very well.
Do other people think Jeremy did or did not have plenty of time to dispose of clothes ?
I have never found a satisfactory answer to the blood stained clothes soaking in buckets in the kitchen when raid team entered:
Shown in soc photo and would have been in direct line of vision of raid team entering kitchen but not noted on raid team statements and yet the following were:
blood drips on floor
phone off hook left on kitchen work surface
broken lampshade and crockery
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3905.msg146309#msg146309
If JB carried out the murders and was bold and brazen enough to think he could get away with it then I guess the opportunities, in terms of time and place, for him to have hidden any incriminating evidence were infinite.
He wasn't a hardened criminal so if responsible must surely have been cacking it thinking EP would be straight on to him? Could he take a gamble psychologically? If not he was limited surely to disposing at WHF, en route to GH or at GH? I doubt if anything much was checked given that the relatives 'found' the silencer days later.
Did WHF have an incinerator? AE's WS refers to Jean Boutell, the housekeeper, taking things outside to burn but think this may have just been a bonfire?
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On the night, he could have put the clothes into another properties outside bins. He may have passed other farm houses on the way back. And lived in a street with other properties. If the rubbish vans were due to collect....
Otherwise he had lots of opportunities over the next month.
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On the night, he could have put the clothes into another properties outside bins. He may have passed other farm houses on the way back. And lived in a street with other properties. If the rubbish vans were due to collect....
Otherwise he had lots of opportunities over the next month.
As I said infinite 8(0(*
Any ideas about the buckets?
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Buckets with blood stains. No idea. But nothing to do with events on the night in my view.
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Buckets with blood stains. No idea. But nothing to do with events on the night in my view.
Whoa hang on a sec... buckets found at the soc containing blood stained clothing in soak but just written off?
Why were they not on raid team statements?
Why were they not sent for forensic analysis?
How can you create a thread asking if JB had an opportunity to dispose of his massacre clothing and yet have no idea about buckets at the soc containing blood stained clothing in soak?
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Whoa hang on a sec... buckets found at the soc containing blood stained clothing in soak but just written off?
Why were they not on raid team statements?
Why were they not sent for forensic analysis?
How can you create a thread asking if JB had an opportunity to dispose of his massacre clothing and yet have no idea about buckets at the soc containing blood stained clothing in soak?
Do you think Jeremy changed at WHF & put his blood stained clothes in the bucket ?
No idea why they were not in the raid team statements. I do not know how their statements are compiled. Maybe more body location, and upturned furniture.
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Do you think Jeremy changed at WHF & put his blood stained clothes in the bucket ?
No idea why they were not in the raid team statements. I do not know how their statements are compiled. Maybe more body location, and upturned furniture.
Its a possibility but the fact remains they surely should have been sent for forensic examination?
Why cherry pick? By this I mean the bloody silencer was analysed but not the bloody clothes/underwear in buckets?
Raid team noted blood droplets on kitchen floor and phone receiver off hook. I guess things out the norm. Is it the norm to have buckets in the kitchen containing blood soaked clothing? Not in my homes?
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Its a possibility but the fact remains they surely should have been sent for forensic examination?
Why cherry pick? By this I mean the bloody silencer was analysed but not the bloody clothes/underwear in buckets?
Raid team noted blood droplets on kitchen floor and phone receiver off hook. I guess things out the norm. Is it the norm to have buckets in the kitchen containing blood soaked clothing? Not in my homes?
What clothes were in the bucket ?
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What clothes were in the bucket ?
As far as I can see it is all contained here:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3905.msg146309#msg146309
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Thanks. So it is clothes in water. Sheila's underwear and tracksuit bottoms.
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Thanks. So it is clothes in water. Sheila's underwear and tracksuit bottoms.
Appears that way. I've read posters on blue refer to the tracksuit bottoms belonging to the twins but as far as I'm aware the only info re the buckets/clothing is contained in the link which makes no ref to the twins clothing. Initially AE refers to 3 buckets and then 2 but only 2 in soc photo.
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People have said Jeremy would not have been able to take his incriminating clothes abroad. The reason ? It would not get through customs !
I always thought thought customs were interested in drugs. Not drops of blood on clothes. Anyway the customs for the Amsterdam trip were not tight, as drugs were smuggled back by Jeremy.
As Holly said 'infinite opportunities'.
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People have said Jeremy would not have been able to take his incriminating clothes abroad. The reason ? It would not get through customs !
I always thought thought customs were interested in drugs. Not drops of blood on clothes. Anyway the customs for the Amsterdam trip were not tight, as drugs were smuggled back by Jeremy.
As Holly said 'infinite opportunities'.
Yes Holly said JB had "infinite opportunities" to get rid of any incriminating evidence IF he was bold and brazen enough to think he could pull of the murderous plan it is claimed he dreamt up. Personally I don't see it.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5732.msg203462#msg203462
JB was no criminal mastermind. He grew up in a law abiding middle class family. He attended elite schools. His background does not lend itself to the sort of crime he was convicted of. Other than OCP and dope growing he was previously of 'good character'. If responsible for WHF it was his first serious crime therefore surely he would be extremely anxious that when he left soc he may have left something glaringly obvious and EP would be straight onto him? Unless he suffered from some sort of personality disorder involving, for example, delusions of grandeur. We are told he is 'normal'. Therefore to my mind he would not have taken the risk of leaving any incriminating evidence at GH or in his car. If he disposed of anything it would be en route back to GH. As far as we know nothing was found by RWB when he looked for cycle tracks JB may have taken. No one came forward with any evidence found eg dog walkers stumbling across bloodied clothes. Would he take the risk of dumping clothes in neighbours' bins, at the local pub or church?
Why speculate re the above when we know for certain that blood stained clothing was found at WHF but not sent for forensic analysis?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3905.msg146309#msg146309
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Supporters say it was a coincidence that June's bike was taken to Jeremy's cottage just before the massacre. Do you agree ?
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Supporters say it was a coincidence that June's bike was taken to Jeremy's cottage just before the massacre. Do you agree ?
Yes I do Adam. I believe he took it there so JM would have some transport when she was staying at GH. In a case like WHF it is possible to look back and see everything and anything as suspicious.
In the case of Shrien Dewani it was said it was suspicious that they ended up touring a bit of a no-go area late at night (he supposedly orchestrated this as part of the murder plot) but that is exactly the sort of thing I would want to do as I would see it as exciting and seeing the 'real' SA as opposed to the inside of a 5 star hotel.
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It was bad luck for Jeremy that he brought the bike over for Julie just before the massacre.
The police and prosecution then claimed he used it on the massacre night.
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It was bad luck for Jeremy that he brought the bike over for Julie just before the massacre.
The police and prosecution then claimed he used it on the massacre night.
I'm sure if the bike hadn't been identified as a potential mode of transport something else would have been found eg an old skateboard, roller blades, pogo stick or space hopper.
The bike was forensically analysed and nothing untoward found.