UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: xtina on March 24, 2016, 11:41:00 AM
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this photo has often puzzled me its as if it could be fake on all the discrepancies it shows ....to me its like a spot the mistakes picture ...so many things wrong about this photo ..it deserves a thread of its own
in the last so called photo maddie is practically white ...as you would expect children to be [factor 50 etc]...yet look fully tanned on the tennis photo...apart from her hand
we don't know who took it ....or on what day ..there are discrepancies ...as to it being.took on .....Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday
who's was the camera that took it.....no other photo's took at the same time ....
if maddie had been playing tennis....she would not have been wearing sandals [safety issues etc] it would have been trainers ...we know maddie had a pair
why would she wear that hat .... and be holding adult tennis balls ..not soft ones...what is wrong with her inner hand
her arms are brown ...scratched and bruised ...not seen on last photo
is the pitch wet...and would children's tennis ...be played next to an adult one ...
bruising on her legs ....marks on her arm...this picture just does not add up ....there are several things not right with it ...
it is like a spot the mistakes ..picture..in a magazine...I'm sure other's...can find more
(http://i.imgur.com/Ct9emBc.jpg)
Unedited photo (http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/13/17/40/69/girl_m10.jpg)
195
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this photo has often puzzled me its as if it could be fake on all the discrepancies it shows ....to me its like a spot the mistakes picture ...so many things wrong about this photo ..it deserves a thread of its own
in the last so called photo maddie is practically white ...as you would expect children to be [factor 50 etc]...yet look fully tanned on the tennis photo...apart from her hand
we don't know who took it ....or on what day ..there are discrepancies ...as to it being.took on .....Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday
who's was the camera that took it.....no other photo's took at the same time ....
if maddie had been playing tennis....she would not have been wearing sandals [safety issues etc] it would have been trainers ...we know maddie had a pair
why would she wear that hat .... and be holding adult tennis balls ..not soft ones...what is wrong with her inner hand
her arms are brown ...scratched and bruised ...not seen on last photo
is the pitch wet...and would children's tennis ...be played next to an adult one ...
bruising on her legs ....marks on her arm...this picture just does not add up ....there are several things not right with it ...
it is like a spot the mistakes ..picture..in a magazine...I'm sure other's...can find more
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http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/13/17/40/69/girl_m10.jpg
I do not want to answer all the points, so for the moment, I'll stick to just one.
Trying to apply UK (or similar) health and safety issues in Portugal is a non-starter.
Try Google StreetView on the A22. It is classed as a motorway. It would not meet UK standards. There is a concrete barrier separating the two streams of traffic. That barrier looks like it would flip a vehicle to the other side in most accidents. Then look at the safety verge. It is so narrow that anyone breaking down has to fill around half of the slow lane.
The Portuguese idea of H&S is perhaps 30 to 50 years behind the UK.
They are building about 300m from me. The site is fenced off. It has a 'gatekeeper' control re workers and deliveries. It has signs up requiring hard hats, steel toecaps and fluorescent jackets. All good stuff. But yesterday they all wandered off and left the gates wide open, so I wandered on-site to see how they were getting on. An open building site, no control, no hard hat, no metal toe caps, no fluorescent jacket. Any child could have done the same.
This is Portugal.
The idea that kids don't run in sandals of the type M is wearing just does not pass muster here. I've got no idea what would happen in the UK, so those sandals might, or might not, scotch the rumour that the photo was taken in the UK. And whoever took the photo seemed to be OK about the sandals.
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I do not want to answer all the points, so for the moment, I'll stick to just one.
Trying to apply UK (or similar) health and safety issues in Portugal is a non-starter.
Try Google StreetView on the A22. It is classed as a motorway. It would not meet UK standards. There is a concrete barrier separating the two streams of traffic. That barrier looks like it would flip a vehicle to the other side in most accidents. Then look at the safety verge. It is so narrow that anyone breaking down has to fill around half of the slow lane.
The Portuguese idea of H&S is perhaps 30 to 50 years behind the UK.
They are building about 300m from me. The site is fenced off. It has a 'gatekeeper' control re workers and deliveries. It has signs up requiring hard hats, steel toecaps and fluorescent jackets. All good stuff. But yesterday they all wandered off and left the gates wide open, so I wandered on-site to see how they were getting on. An open building site, no control, no hard hat, no metal toe caps, no fluorescent jacket. Any child could have done the same.
This is Portugal.
The idea that kids don't run in sandals of the type M is wearing just does not pass muster here. I've got no idea what would happen in the UK, so those sandals might, or might not, scotch the rumour that the photo was taken in the UK. And whoever took the photo seemed to be OK about the sandals.
okay.....i didn't actually mean the Portuguese health and safety ...i meant ...parents ...nannies ..etc...etc ...by the look of the sandals there is a quit of bit of room at the front .....as a lot of mums would know ...a tripping hazard in small tots ...
mind you after saying that ....the mccs didn't pay much attention to health safety ....did they ...but you would have thought a nannie would....and deem the not suitable for running round in ...
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I do not want to answer all the points, so for the moment, I'll stick to just one.
Trying to apply UK (or similar) health and safety issues in Portugal is a non-starter.
Try Google StreetView on the A22. It is classed as a motorway. It would not meet UK standards. There is a concrete barrier separating the two streams of traffic. That barrier looks like it would flip a vehicle to the other side in most accidents. Then look at the safety verge. It is so narrow that anyone breaking down has to fill around half of the slow lane.
The Portuguese idea of H&S is perhaps 30 to 50 years behind the UK.
They are building about 300m from me. The site is fenced off. It has a 'gatekeeper' control re workers and deliveries. It has signs up requiring hard hats, steel toecaps and fluorescent jackets. All good stuff. But yesterday they all wandered off and left the gates wide open, so I wandered on-site to see how they were getting on. An open building site, no control, no hard hat, no metal toe caps, no fluorescent jacket. Any child could have done the same.
This is Portugal.
The idea that kids don't run in sandals of the type M is wearing just does not pass muster here. I've got no idea what would happen in the UK, so those sandals might, or might not, scotch the rumour that the photo was taken in the UK. And whoever took the photo seemed to be OK about the sandals.
As such a lot of Mark Warner guests are from the UK I would expect them to be careful about safety using UK standards. It isn't recommended to wear sandals as they are a tripping hazard. They do use different tennis balls for children, which seem to be red and yellow;
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gamma-Quick-Tennis-12-Ball-Yellow/dp/B00166T9TA
(http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims4/GLOB/d0cd091/1459051200/resize/640x426/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blogcdn.com%2Ftravel.aol.co.uk%2Fmedia%2F2012%2F06%2Ftennis.jpg)
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The only people wearing flipflops are the two nannies and they are not playing tennis.
The people playing tennis are the coach and one child at a time (they take it in turns) all of whom are wearing sensible non-flipflop footwear. There is no health and safety risk.
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The only people wearing flipflops are the two nannies and they are not playing tennis.
The people playing tennis are the coach and one child at a time (they take it in turns) all of whom are wearing sensible non-flipflop footwear. There is no health and safety risk.
we are talking about maddie .....Maddie was wearing sandals ..not sensible at all .
if you look at the picture of maddie
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we are talking about maddie .....Maddie was wearing sandals ..not sensible at all .
if you look at the picture of maddie
Those new sandals have a heel strap and numerous straps on top - they are safe.
Anyway no shoes or sandals were missing, therefore if the child walked out of the apartment to look for her parents she did so barefoot or in socks
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The question, pegasus is whether children playing tennis would have been allowed to do so in sandals and whether the picture was taken during Mini tennis on Tuesday (or Monday if you look at the activity sheet for the Lobsters; they were in the pool on Tuesday). The balls, for example, are not the safer children's balls, they are adult ones.
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we are talking about maddie .....Maddie was wearing sandals ..not sensible at all .
if you look at the picture of maddie
OK Constable, add "failure to ensure child is wearing footwear appropriate to tennis, game of" to the charge sheet! ?{)(**
(Jesus, its a kids game of tennis at a holiday resort, not effing Wimbledon)
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The risk of falling while wearing sandals is irrelevant to solving the case, because they were not missing, see AT statement "she asked the parents whether Madeleine's shoes were there, to which they replied that they were" therefore even in the hypothesis that the child fell it must have been barefoot or in socks.
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OK Constable, add "failure to ensure child is wearing footwear appropriate to tennis, game of" to the charge sheet! ?{)(**
(Jesus, its a kids game of tennis at a holiday resort, not effing Wimbledon)
oi..excuse me .......its not just a game of tennis.... is it though.....just shows how you can find it so trivial ....because it isn't ....
so armchair detective ....when do you reckon the pic was took ....no one else in it...where was Ella ...and who took it....where is all the other photos you would think...would have been took over a period of six days ....when she goes into so much detail ...of two of the five that were took....
like in the last photo ...how stunning maddie looked in her expensive cloths..described in detail ....just to go have them soiled at the creche...
wasn't it tennis coaches supervised the mini tennis sessions....why say Cat's instructions....as described in her book below
During Gerry’s tennis lesson, Madeleine and Ella came to the adjoining court with their Mini Club for a mini-tennis session. Jane and I stayed to watch them. It chokes me remembering how my heart soared with pride in Madeleine that morning. She was so happy and obviously enjoying herself. Standing there listening intently to Cat’s instructions , she looked so gorgeous in her little T-shirt and shorts, pink hat, ankle socks and new holiday sandals that I ran back to our apartment for my camera to record the occasion. One of my photographs is known around the world now: a smiling Madeleine clutching armfuls of tennis balls . At the end of their session, the children had been asked to run around the court and pick up as many balls as they could . Madeleine had done really well and was very pleased with herself. Gerry loves that picture .
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Didn't one of the other mums in the tapas group say she grabbed her camera and took the snap of Madeleine as she looked so cute. Cannot remember who that was though?
From Madeleine by Kate McCann (published May 2011)
Tuesday 1st May 2007
During Gerry’s tennis lesson, Madeleine and Ella came to the adjoining court with their Mini Club for a mini-tennis session. Jane and I stayed to watch them. It chokes me remembering how my heart soared with pride in Madeleine that morning. She was so happy and obviously enjoying herself. Standing there listening intently to Cat’s instructions, she looked so gorgeous in her little T-shirt and shorts, pink hat, ankle socks and new holiday sandals that I ran back to our apartment for my camera to record the occasion. One of my photographs is known around the world now: a smiling Madeleine clutching armfuls of tennis balls. At the end of their session, the children had been asked to run around the court and pick up as many balls as they could. Madeleine had done really well and was very pleased with herself. Gerry loves that picture.
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oi..excuse me .......its not just a game of tennis.... is it though.....just shows how you can find it so trivial ....because it isn't ....
so armchair detective ....when do you reckon the pic was took ....no one else in it...where was Ella ...and who took it....where is all the other photos you would think...would have been took over a period of six days ....when she goes into so much detail ...of two of the five that were took....
like in the last photo ...how stunning maddie looked in her expensive cloths..described in detail ....just to go have them soiled at the creche...
wasn't it tennis coaches supervised the mini tennis sessions....why say Cat's instructions....as described in her book below
During Gerry’s tennis lesson, Madeleine and Ella came to the adjoining court with their Mini Club for a mini-tennis session. Jane and I stayed to watch them. It chokes me remembering how my heart soared with pride in Madeleine that morning. She was so happy and obviously enjoying herself. Standing there listening intently to Cat’s instructions , she looked so gorgeous in her little T-shirt and shorts, pink hat, ankle socks and new holiday sandals that I ran back to our apartment for my camera to record the occasion. One of my photographs is known around the world now: a smiling Madeleine clutching armfuls of tennis balls . At the end of their session, the children had been asked to run around the court and pick up as many balls as they could . Madeleine had done really well and was very pleased with herself. Gerry loves that picture .
Its all balls as the balls used by the children were red and yellow, I believe.
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oi..excuse me .......its not just a game of tennis.... is it though.....just shows how you can find it so trivial ....because it isn't ....
so armchair detective ....when do you reckon the pic was took ....no one else in it...where was Ella ...and who took it....where is all the other photos you would think...would have been took over a period of six days ....when she goes into so much detail ...of two of the five that were took....
like in the last photo ...how stunning maddie looked in her expensive cloths..described in detail ....just to go have them soiled at the creche...
wasn't it tennis coaches supervised the mini tennis sessions....why say Cat's instructions....as described in her book below
During Gerry’s tennis lesson, Madeleine and Ella came to the adjoining court with their Mini Club for a mini-tennis session. Jane and I stayed to watch them. It chokes me remembering how my heart soared with pride in Madeleine that morning. She was so happy and obviously enjoying herself. Standing there listening intently to Cat’s instructions , she looked so gorgeous in her little T-shirt and shorts, pink hat, ankle socks and new holiday sandals that I ran back to our apartment for my camera to record the occasion. One of my photographs is known around the world now: a smiling Madeleine clutching armfuls of tennis balls . At the end of their session, the children had been asked to run around the court and pick up as many balls as they could . Madeleine had done really well and was very pleased with herself. Gerry loves that picture .
You appear to assume that the Policia Judiciaria were incapable of performing the most elementary tasks which would be expected in the simplest of enquiries but which are fundamental in one as serious as Madeleine's disappearance.
If they did not ask for photographs, they were given them http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HOLIDAY-PHOTOS-LIST.htm
... but I am certain they would be as diligent as their British counterparts in sourcing such important possible evidence for themselves, unless you can suggest the contrary.
Madeleine: Police beg holidaymakers to send photos in
Last updated at 19:54 21 May 2007
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-456741/Madeleine-Police-beg-holidaymakers-send-photos-in.html#ixzz43pwV1XbH
It must be remembered that we have not seen all the information contained in the files.
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As such a lot of Mark Warner guests are from the UK I would expect them to be careful about safety using UK standards. It isn't recommended to wear sandals as they are a tripping hazard. They do use different tennis balls for children, which seem to be red and yellow;
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gamma-Quick-Tennis-12-Ball-Yellow/.... ....../B00166T9TA
(http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims4/GLOB/d0cd091/1459051200/resize/640x426/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blogcdn.com%2Ftravel.aol.co.uk%2Fmedia%2F2012%2F06%2Ftennis.jpg)
How many tennis racquets can you spot in the above photo?
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Didn't one of the other mums in the tapas group say she grabbed her camera and took the snap of Madeleine as she looked so cute. Cannot remember who that was though?
Jane ...obviously ..there was only them two there according to the book...
so maddie must have stood in that position ...till k mcc got back..with her camera
strange ...how there wasn't any of Ella ....on such a memorable occasion
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What surprises me too is that there is only one photo. But then again some parents just aren't into photographing each and every special moment. My ex always carried a camera everywhere we went and recorded just about every activity over the years and to the annoyance of some family members at times. Just recently however, these same family members (now celebrities) approached her for photographs recording past events so that they could be used by Sony who is making a film about them...oh how things change!
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How many tennis racquets can you spot in the above photo?
I don't think the Murray brothers need to worry about that lot until they manage to get a ball over the net. Children of that age are just having a fun introduction to the sport, although I don't know how much enjoyment that little group are showing.
I see two racquets, Misty.
One for the instructor and one for the small pupil. I also see two appreciative child care operatives in shot looking as if they are encouraging and assisting their small charges.
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Its all balls as the balls used by the children were red and yellow, I believe.
Where did you get that idea?
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I don't think the Murray brothers need to worry about that lot until they manage to get a ball over the net. Children of that age are just having a fun introduction to the sport, although I don't know how much enjoyment that little group are showing.
I see two racquets, Misty.
One for the instructor and one for the small pupil. I also see two appreciative child care operatives in shot looking as if they are encouraging and assisting their small charges.
Yes it's a one at a time session. The coach speaks to one child, the nannies supervise the rest. At 3 years old there is little ball - racquet - eye co-ordination. The children just wouldn't be running around, racquet in hand, trying to hit balls indiscriminately. They're far more likely to whack the child next to them than hit a ball. Wearing sandals was not an issue - Madeleine was as safe in them as walking in the street or playing in the play area.
MW had only just taken over in 2007. It's highly unlikely they would have been fully equipped with the latest Mini-Tennis equipment (judging by reports about the rest of the public areas at the time), hence the use of standard tennis balls.
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Is this photo nothing more sinister than a kosher photo with a thread of poetic licence woven around it?
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this photo has often puzzled me its as if it could be fake on all the discrepancies it shows ....to me its like a spot the mistakes picture ...so many things wrong about this photo ..it deserves a thread of its own
in the last so called photo maddie is practically white ...as you would expect children to be [factor 50 etc]...yet look fully tanned on the tennis photo...apart from her hand
we don't know who took it ....or on what day ..there are discrepancies ...as to it being.took on .....Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday
who's was the camera that took it.....no other photo's took at the same time ....
if maddie had been playing tennis....she would not have been wearing sandals [safety issues etc] it would have been trainers ...we know maddie had a pair
why would she wear that hat .... and be holding adult tennis balls ..not soft ones...what is wrong with her inner hand
her arms are brown ...scratched and bruised ...not seen on last photo
is the pitch wet...and would children's tennis ...be played next to an adult one ...
bruising on her legs ....marks on her arm...this picture just does not add up ....there are several things not right with it ...
it is like a spot the mistakes ..picture..in a magazine...I'm sure other's...can find more
(http://i.imgur.com/Ct9emBc.jpg)
Unedited photo (http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/13/17/40/69/girl_m10.jpg)
16
I did have a look to compare the two photos. In the "tennis ball" photo Madeleine's hair is much darker and she looks a bit tanned. In the "last photo by the pool" her hair is much fairer and her skin is similarly pale. So it could be simply a question of exposure - the "tennis ball" photo being correctly exposed while the "last photo" is a bit overexposed.
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AFAIK, the original from which the smaller tennis balls photo is cropped.
The original is important. It has tons and tons of useless green dominating the photo. By the time you get to the small photo, M is rosy red, and the tennis balls have turned luminous.
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Good grief - I look at that photo and see a happy, healthy smiling little girl enjoying gathering up as many tennis balls as she can.
But apparently I am quite wrong and this is a piccie of a child with scratched, marked and bruised arms and legs and has something wrong with one of her hands. She has also apparently been forced into wearing really dangerous sandals by her wicked parents. How she has managed such a big happy smile is a mystery - but no doubt that can be accounted for by photoshopping
Have I wondered into a parallel universe or do people actually believe this utter tosh?
Jeez.
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What surprises me too is that there is only one photo. But then again some parents just aren't into photographing each and every special moment. My ex always carried a camera everywhere we went and recorded just about every activity over the years and to the annoyance of some family members at times. Just recently however, these same family members (now celebrities) approached her for photographs recording past events so that they could be used by Sony who is making a film about them...oh how things change!
You were lucky to get that one and Rachel said Jane took it.
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What did Jane say? Did she think that maybe she took it but is not sure- "I just thought I did"
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The McCann case must have set a new world record for myths which isn't really surprising given the number of conflicting statements and comments we have come to understand since Madeleine disappeared in May 2007. The ironic thing is though, Madeleine might not have had many photos taken of her throughout that entire vacation but nevertheless she must undoubtedly be the most recognised child on the planet.
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OK Constable, add "failure to ensure child is wearing footwear appropriate to tennis, game of" to the charge sheet! ?{)(**
(Jesus, its a kids game of tennis at a holiday resort, not effing Wimbledon)
@)(++(* 8((()*/
Exactly ! Bet the nannies would have enjoyed changing all those shoes for the little ones twice
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Unless things have changed, this is NOT a tennis court at the tapas area of Ocean Club.
By changed, I mean
a new row of mature trees,
a new wall behind
and a different coloured tennis court. The Tapas Courts were green but both had a red surround.
I think that this image provides a an opportunity for a new myth as it stands. Let's nip that in the bud now.
(http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims4/GLOB/d0cd091/1459051200/resize/640x426/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blogcdn.com%2Ftravel.aol.co.uk%2Fmedia%2F2012%2F06%2Ftennis.jpg)
@ xtina in particular:
Notice how many of the kids are wearing trainers?
Crikey, all these irresponsible parents. Fancy!
You really wouldn't believe it, would you?
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Good grief - I look at that photo and see a happy, healthy smiling little girl enjoying gathering up as many tennis balls as she can.
But apparently I am quite wrong and this is a piccie of a child with scratched, marked and bruised arms and legs and has something wrong with one of her hands. She has also apparently been forced into wearing really dangerous sandals by her wicked parents. How she has managed such a big happy smile is a mystery - but no doubt that can be accounted for by photoshopping
Have I wondered into a parallel universe or do people actually believe this utter tosh?
Jeez.
Spot on Bernice. I think there is less to this than meets the eye.
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Unless things have changed, this is NOT a tennis court at the tapas area of Ocean Club.
By changed, I mean
a new row of mature trees,
a new wall behind
and a different coloured tennis court. The Tapas Courts were green but both had a red surround.
I think that this image provides a an opportunity for a new myth as it stands. Let's nip that in the bud now.
(http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims4/GLOB/d0cd091/1459051200/resize/640x426/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blogcdn.com%2Ftravel.aol.co.uk%2Fmedia%2F2012%2F06%2Ftennis.jpg)
@ xtina in particular:
Notice how many of the kids are wearing trainers?
Crikey, all these irresponsible parents. Fancy!
You really wouldn't believe it, would you?
How clever you are Sadie, the photo is a Mark Warner tennis class at anther resort. It shows the red and yellow balls which the tennis instructors use for children's tennis sessions. They are lighter than those used by adults.
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Yes it's a one at a time session. The coach speaks to one child, the nannies supervise the rest. At 3 years old there is little ball - racquet - eye co-ordination. The children just wouldn't be running around, racquet in hand, trying to hit balls indiscriminately. They're far more likely to whack the child next to them than hit a ball. Wearing sandals was not an issue - Madeleine was as safe in them as walking in the street or playing in the play area.
MW had only just taken over in 2007. It's highly unlikely they would have been fully equipped with the latest Mini-Tennis equipment (judging by reports about the rest of the public areas at the time), hence the use of standard tennis balls.
Marvelous logic. The McCanns said this photo was taken during a Mini tennis lesson. They must be believed. Therefore the lack of child weight tennis balls must be due to the unprofessionalism and lack of foresight of Mark Warner and/or their tennis coaches.
The fact that every photograph I have seen showing youngsters playing tennis at Mark Warner shows them using child weight tennis balls? Ignore them.
The fact that these balls are lighter so as not to damage a little one's wrist when hitting them? Never mind that.
The fact that these balls are lighter so as not to hurt a small child if they are hit by them? No worries.
There's all the difference in the world between a child playing tennis in the park with it's parents and playing at a well-regarded holiday resort with qualified tennis instructors. Anyone who suggests that Mark Warner and their instructors would be unaware/unconcerned about child safety, appropriate footwear and equipment should think again. Given their client base and the cost of their holidays would they really indulge in careless practices?
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Also ignore the comment in Kate's book that the children's lessons were on the court adjacent to gerrys (adult) lesson. And after their lesson the children apparently went round collecting as many balls as they could find. It was then that this photo was taken. So as I assume the adult lessons were with standard tennis balls, that would account for Madeleine having an armful of standard tennis balls.
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Marvelous logic. The McCanns said this photo was taken during a Mini tennis lesson. They must be believed. Therefore the lack of child weight tennis balls must be due to the unprofessionalism and lack of foresight of Mark Warner and/or their tennis coaches.
The fact that every photograph I have seen showing youngsters playing tennis at Mark Warner shows them using child weight tennis balls? Ignore them.
The fact that these balls are lighter so as not to damage a little one's wrist when hitting them? Never mind that.
The fact that these balls are lighter so as not to hurt a small child if they are hit by them? No worries.
There's all the difference in the world between a child playing tennis in the park with it's parents and playing at a well-regarded holiday resort with qualified tennis instructors. Anyone who suggests that Mark Warner and their instructors would be unaware/unconcerned about child safety, appropriate footwear and equipment should think again. Given their client base and the cost of their holidays would they really indulge in careless practices?
Thank you, Gunit, for your compliment in the previous post.
Now the case of the special tennis balls used by youngsters. You are quite correct that different balls are generally used by youngsters. I had already researched that, however as Misty suggests, did Mark Warner have them available at that time, so early in their first season? I am right it was their first season at OC, was it not?
As for the balls hurting a youngster if hit by one, have you ever seen a professional teaching a youngster to play? They plop the ball over the net, just in the right place, at the very foot of the learner ... or should I say just the correct distance in front of and to the right of the youngster. Even in the most unlikely case that the little one was hit with a normal weight ball, it would not hurt at all.
As the photograph shows, the youngsters wear open back flip flops, sandals .... anything .. so it seems that the professionals are not that bothered. From the photograph, which you assure us is of another Mark Warner holiday complex, it seems that they also allow the youngsters to use a large, and maybe full size tennis racquet.
Plaese do not forget that Madeleine was also actually too young for the group she was placed in. The other kids would be taller and stronger
Although it is my guess that as such an active, rough and tumble little girl (see videos with Gerry) Madeleine was stronger than she looked at forst glance.
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Also ignore the comment in Kate's book that the children's lessons were on the court adjacent to gerrys (adult) lesson. And after their lesson the children apparently went round collecting as many balls as they could find. It was then that this photo was taken. So as I assume the adult lessons were with standard tennis balls, that would account for Madeleine having an armful of standard tennis balls.
Exactly my thoughts JP, but I hadn't got around to saying it yet.
Additionally, It seems that here we have trained instructors teaching the little ones on a court adjacent to a hard game being played? Unless the youngsters cleaned up after the adults had stopped playing. That is something that we do not know.
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Also ignore the comment in Kate's book that the children's lessons were on the court adjacent to gerrys (adult) lesson. And after their lesson the children apparently went round collecting as many balls as they could find. It was then that this photo was taken. So as I assume the adult lessons were with standard tennis balls, that would account for Madeleine having an armful of standard tennis balls.
So what did Kate say? Her lesson was 9.15 to 10.15, Gerry's from 10.15 to 11.15.
The Mini's play finished at 11am and immediately after that the Fosters were booked in from 11am to 12 noon.
A nice story but as with all these nice stories it doesn't have any factual basis. By the time Gerry's lesson ended the Mini's were gone.
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http://www.itftennis.com/technical/balls/other/beginners.aspx
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Thank you, Gunit, for your compliment in the previous post.
Now the case of the special tennis balls used by youngsters. You are quite correct that different balls are generally used by youngsters. I had already researched that, however as Misty suggests, did Mark Warner have them available at that time, so early in their first season? I am right it was their first season at OC, was it not?
As for the balls hurting a youngster if hit by one, have you ever seen a professional teaching a youngster to play? They plop the ball over the net, just in the right place, at the very foot of the learner ... or should I say just the correct distance in front of and to the right of the youngster. Even in the most unlikely case that the little one was hit with a normal weight ball, it would not hurt at all.
As the photograph shows, the youngsters wear open back flip flops, sandals .... anything .. so it seems that the professionals are not that bothered. From the photograph, which you assure us is of another Mark Warner holiday complex, it seems that they also allow the youngsters to use a large, and maybe full size tennis racquet.
Plaese do not forget that Madeleine was also actually too young for the group she was placed in. The other kids would be taller and stronger
Although it is my guess that as such an active, rough and tumble little girl (see videos with Gerry) Madeleine was stronger than she looked at forst glance.
Another statement which ignores the facts.
Madeleine's group was for 3-5 years. There were between 13 and 14 MW children in that age group. 3 were 4 years old. 10 or 11 were 3 years old. (Not sure about L Totman, 2 different ages recorded so she was either 2 0r 3)
In the Lobsters that day there were 7 children. 3 of them were 4 years old, 4 were 3 years old. At practically 4 Madeleine was in the middle of the age range, not the youngest and smallest at all.
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Marvelous logic. The McCanns said this photo was taken during a Mini tennis lesson. They must be believed. Therefore the lack of child weight tennis balls must be due to the unprofessionalism and lack of foresight of Mark Warner and/or their tennis coaches.
The fact that every photograph I have seen showing youngsters playing tennis at Mark Warner shows them using child weight tennis balls? Ignore them.
The fact that these balls are lighter so as not to damage a little one's wrist when hitting them? Never mind that.
The fact that these balls are lighter so as not to hurt a small child if they are hit by them? No worries.
There's all the difference in the world between a child playing tennis in the park with it's parents and playing at a well-regarded holiday resort with qualified tennis instructors. Anyone who suggests that Mark Warner and their instructors would be unaware/unconcerned about child safety, appropriate footwear and equipment should think again. Given their client base and the cost of their holidays would they really indulge in careless practices?
You're clearly not a tennis player, G-Unit.
Any professional coach would have a ball pick-up such as https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=tennis+ball+collection+device&biw=1517&bih=714&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjXqdic8dvLAhWDaRQKHUs9AtIQsAQIGw&dpr=0.9#imgrc=e6WUNwowEOP0QM%3A .
It's a great device & marvellous time-saver. Useful for storing all those balls, too.
Please note it's the weight of the racquet & the way it's gripped which causes damage to the wrist, not the weight of the ball
A standard tennis ball weighs between 55g & 60g. The low pressure training balls used for children under 8 weigh 41g. (approx 2oz against 1.5oz to we oldies)
The 2 MW instructors had only been contracted since late March. Presumably any existing equipment belonged to the Jonathan Markson coaches.
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You're clearly not a tennis player, G-Unit.
Any professional coach would have a ball pick-up such as https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=tennis+ball+collection+device&biw=1517&bih=714&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjXqdic8dvLAhWDaRQKHUs9AtIQsAQIGw&dpr=0.9#imgrc=e6WUNwowEOP0QM%3A .
It's a great device & marvellous time-saver. Useful for storing all those balls, too.
Please note it's the weight of the racquet & the way it's gripped which causes damage to the wrist, not the weight of the ball
A standard tennis ball weighs between 55g & 60g. The low pressure training balls used for children under 8 weigh 41g. (approx 2oz against 1.5oz to we oldies)
The 2 MW instructors had only been contracted since late March. Presumably any existing equipment belonged to the Jonathan Markson coaches.
Wrists are something a tennis coach would know about;
a lighter ball to allow children the chance to hit properly without wrists giving way.
http://www.netmums.com/northcumbria/local/view/after-school-activities/tennis/city-tennis-clubs
The Mark Warner tennis equipment is provided by Service Line and their coaches are expected to work to that company's standards;
http://www.markwarner.co.uk/recruitment2/tennis/
Mark Warner has worked for many years in partnership with Service Line.
http://jobs.natives.co.uk/job/tennis-coach-561441c2b95ad/4767758
Of course they had ball containers, although if they picked up the balls why were the kids doing it, so I don't get your point?
(https://live-admin-markwarner2.tigerbay.co.uk/resize.ashx?f=san-lucianu-tennis3.jpg&w=605&h=340)
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You're clearly not a tennis player, G-Unit.
Any professional coach would have a ball pick-up such as https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=tennis+ball+collection+device&biw=1517&bih=714&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjXqdic8dvLAhWDaRQKHUs9AtIQsAQIGw&dpr=0.9#imgrc=e6WUNwowEOP0QM%3A .
It's a great device & marvellous time-saver. Useful for storing all those balls, too.
Please note it's the weight of the racquet & the way it's gripped which causes damage to the wrist, not the weight of the ball
A standard tennis ball weighs between 55g & 60g. The low pressure training balls used for children under 8 weigh 41g. (approx 2oz against 1.5oz to we oldies)
The 2 MW instructors had only been contracted since late March. Presumably any existing equipment belonged to the Jonathan Markson coaches.
Viewed strictly as a problem in mechanics that is not true. The training balls limit the velocity at which they can leave the racquet head and they are lighter. i.e the force when the ball hits the opponents racquet is reduced therefore the moment on the wrist is reduced. force = mass * velocity2.
The aggregation of marginal differences comes into play here, whether it makes any appreciable difference I'll leave for you to speculate on but it is a calculable difference. Boom boom. ?{)(**
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Viewed strictly as a problem in mechanics that is not true. The training balls limit the velocity at which they can leave the racquet head and they are lighter. i.e the force when the ball hits the opponents racquet is reduced therefore the moment on the wrist is reduced. force = mass * velocity2.
The aggregation of marginal differences comes into play here, whether it makes any appreciable difference I'll leave for you to speculate on but it is a calculable difference. Boom boom. ?{)(**
The main reason for using training balls for younger children ( the Lta suggest under 11) is that they are slower - allowing more time for the child to return a shot. There is a side benefit of being less painful if you get in the way of a well struck ball.
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Good grief - I look at that photo and see a happy, healthy smiling little girl enjoying gathering up as many tennis balls as she can.
But apparently I am quite wrong and this is a piccie of a child with scratched, marked and bruised arms and legs and has something wrong with one of her hands. She has also apparently been forced into wearing really dangerous sandals by her wicked parents. How she has managed such a big happy smile is a mystery - but no doubt that can be accounted for by photoshopping
Have I wondered into a parallel universe or do people actually believe this utter tosh?
Jeez.
On the other hand, when was this picture supposed to have been taken?
On Tuesday, according to Kate McCann.
On Thursday, say Jane and Rachael?
Oh well.
So who took it?
Kate says 'I did'.
Rachael says Jane did.
Oh well, what do these petty minutiae really matter, anyway.
But here's a thing.
Whatever you say about the 'contrast' in any photos, how can we reconcile the red and suntanned look of the girl in the Tennis Balls Photo - taken on Tuesday? - with the pale, untanned look of Madeleine at 2.29pm on Thursday in the 'Last Photo'?
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The main reason for using training balls for younger children ( the Lta suggest under 11) is that they are slower - allowing more time for the child to return a shot. There is a side benefit of being less painful if you get in the way of a well struck ball.
Dunno about all that chief, I was looking at it purely as problem in mechanics, as I said (if you read and digested my post that is). Are you saying the mechanical analysis is incorrect ? In that case you will not be arguing with a poster called Alice Purjorick but with Newton and Tim O'Shenko. Good luck with that one (two?) 8(0(*
But getting back to the plot we have a photo of a female child, standing on the edge of a tennis court, clutching a bunch of optic yellow tennis balls. The absence of spotty bits and stripey bits on the balls suggesting they are "standard" so maybe at the end of an adult game she had been playing at being a ball girl ?. Anyone have a better idea that's not too complicated and doesn't involve the balls being a batch without the normal coding made especially for that location that week ?
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On the other hand, when was this picture supposed to have been taken?
On Tuesday, according to Kate McCann.
On Thursday, say Jane and Rachael?
Oh well.
So who took it?
Kate says 'I did'.
Rachael says Jane did.
Oh well, what do these petty minutiae really matter, anyway.
But here's a thing.
Whatever you say about the 'contrast' in any photos, how can we reconcile the red and suntanned look of the girl in the Tennis Balls Photo - taken on Tuesday? - with the pale, untanned look of Madeleine at 2.29pm on Thursday in the 'Last Photo'?
Were I looking at the originals I might be able to answer better As it is we are looking at copies that have been cropped, probably had the auto correct feature applied every time, resized God knows how many times to the point where we are comparing a meerkat with a muskrat. The T9 could scarcely remember what they were doing one days end to the next so the lack of commonality in their accounts is hardly surprising.
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On the other hand, when was this picture supposed to have been taken?
On Tuesday, according to Kate McCann.
On Thursday, say Jane and Rachael?
Oh well.
So who took it?
Kate says 'I did'.
Rachael says Jane did.
Oh well, what do these petty minutiae really matter, anyway.
But here's a thing.
Whatever you say about the 'contrast' in any photos, how can we reconcile the red and suntanned look of the girl in the Tennis Balls Photo - taken on Tuesday? - with the pale, untanned look of Madeleine at 2.29pm on Thursday in the 'Last Photo'?
One picture was correctly exposed - the other was a bit washed out - if you look at the hair colour then you will see the difference. Sorry - but it really is that simple. No conspiracy!
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Of course according to the creche activity sheet the Lobsters played tennis on Monday. Did they turn up, I wonder, and have to go back to the creche when the tennis coach said 'no, come back tomorrow!'?
Is the green part of the court wet or is it stained by the way?
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The T9 could scarcely remember what they were doing one days end to the next so the lack of commonality in their accounts is hardly surprising.
Hmmm, but in the days after Madeleine was reported missing, they all sat down together (I think that very weekend) and within a week had produced a nicely typed-up document running to several pages, documenting all of the events and exact timings that led up to the moment of the alarm being raised
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Hmmm, but in the days after Madeleine was reported missing, they all sat down together (I think that very weekend) and within a week had produced a nicely typed-up document running to several pages, documenting all of the events and exact timings that led up to the moment of the alarm being raised
Well, who better than doctors and lawyers when it comes to protecting their collective arses?
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Hmmm, but in the days after Madeleine was reported missing, they all sat down together (I think that very weekend) and within a week had produced a nicely typed-up document running to several pages, documenting all of the events and exact timings that led up to the moment of the alarm being raised
it is exactly what a group of intelligent people would do
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On the other hand, when was this picture supposed to have been taken?
On Tuesday, according to Kate McCann.
On Thursday, say Jane and Rachael?
Oh well.
So who took it?
Kate says 'I did'.
Rachael says Jane did.
Oh well, what do these petty minutiae really matter, anyway.
But here's a thing.
Whatever you say about the 'contrast' in any photos, how can we reconcile the red and suntanned look of the girl in the Tennis Balls Photo - taken on Tuesday? - with the pale, untanned look of Madeleine at 2.29pm on Thursday in the 'Last Photo'?
If Madeleine was no longer around after the 29th and the tennis photograph 'story' was part of a cunning plan - carefully devised by Kate and friends to hide that fact - - then surely they would have all said it happened on the same day ?? - as obviously the day and time would be the most important part of the cunning plan? Or were they all so thick and stupid they didn't realise that.
If Jane and Kate were both taking photos of their girls at same time - it's perfectly possible that they both took similar piccies and JT also took a piccie of Madeleine collecting tennis balls.
I know next to nothing about photography - except that IIRC from what others say - colouring, light and shade can change (or be changed) when a photograph is reproduced, or changed in size.
Also IIRC it was claimed that Gerry was not tanned on the 3rd May - but was tanned on the evening of the 4th May - and yet in a photo taken (with another man) on the 5th May - he has no tan.
Apparently the camera does lie.
AIMO
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Hmmm, but in the days after Madeleine was reported missing, they all sat down together (I think that very weekend) and within a week had produced a nicely typed-up document running to several pages, documenting all of the events and exact timings that led up to the moment of the alarm being raised
Are you suggesting collusion, rather than to err and be forgetful is human, is the reason for some changes ?
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Well, who better than doctors and lawyers when it comes to protecting their collective arses?
Careful, careful ! Blonk knows some lawyers rather well.
You might upset him.
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So what did Kate say? Her lesson was 9.15 to 10.15, Gerry's from 10.15 to 11.15.
The Mini's play finished at 11am and immediately after that the Fosters were booked in from 11am to 12 noon.
A nice story but as with all these nice stories it doesn't have any factual basis. By the time Gerry's lesson ended the Mini's were gone.
So are syou aying that the minis were learning to play on a court adjacent and open to a court with adults playing? Now that could be nasty if a hard hitter were playing
I haven't checked that the courts opened into each other, but, in my experience they usually do.
Doesn't sound very professional of the coaches if they tolerated that.
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So are syou aying that the minis were learning to play on a court adjacent and open to a court with adults playing? Now that could be nasty if a hard hitter were playing
I haven't checked that the courts opened into each other, but, in my experience they usually do.
Doesn't sound very professional of the coaches if they tolerated that.
No, Sadie, I never said that. I thought it was common sense that the courts would be fenced off from each other;
(http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/church/177.jpg)
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The McCann case must have set a new world record for myths which isn't really surprising given the number of conflicting statements and comments we have come to understand since Madeleine disappeared in May 2007. The ironic thing is though, Madeleine might not have had many photos taken of her throughout that entire vacation but nevertheless she must undoubtedly be the most recognised child on the planet.
Hi John
Where did you get the middle image of Madeleine from ? Cos I am not totally convinced that it is Madeleine
[Photo on Page 2, Reply 26]
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No, Sadie, I never said that. I thought it was common sense that the courts would be fenced off from each other;
(http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/church/177.jpg)
Fair do's Gunit. 8((()*/
I was an avid tennis player and in my day courts seemed to almost always open into each other
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Hi John
Where did you get the middle image of Madeleine from ? Cos I am not totally convinced that it is Madeleine
[Photo on Page 2, Reply 26]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gI6hpVIAno
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Hi John
Where did you get the middle image of Madeleine from ? Cos I am not totally convinced that it is Madeleine
[Photo on Page 2, Reply 26]
Definitely Madeleine Mccann in her snoopy top
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/_m/maddy_%20(26).jpg
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/images/mbm1.JPG
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/_m/maddy_%20(18).jpg
Source
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/MADELEINE_PHOTOS.htm
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gI6hpVIAno
Thanks Brietta.
That is a lovely video
The original photo appeared to be missing the definitive folds when Madeleine smiled, but I can see them in the video.
I am talking about the crease below the eyes and at the top of her cheeks when she smiles.
And thank you Mercury for your help.
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Definitely Madeleine Mccann in her snoopy top
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/_m/maddy_%20(26).jpg
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/images/mbm1.JPG
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/_m/maddy_%20(18).jpg
Source
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/MADELEINE_PHOTOS.htm
Thanks for that link, Mercury, it is ages since I looked at it ... some lovely photographs there.
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Thanks Brietta.
That is a lovely video
The original photo appeared to be missing the definitive folds when Madeleine smiled, but I can see them in the video.
I am talking about the crease below the eyes and at the top of her cheeks when she smiles.
And thank you Mercury for your help.
After looking at the photographs in the link Mercury posted I think Madeleine can look amazingly different depending on the camera viewpoint and the angle at which she holds her head.
Of course the photos cover her at various ages.
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Looking at those photographs haunts me because who could leave those three precious little darlings alone at night in a strange country. Criminal... it really is.
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Looking at those photographs haunts me because who could leave those three precious little darlings alone at night in a strange country. Criminal... it really is.
No, it wasn't Criminal.
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The CROPPED tennis ball photo is a 'fake' in the sense that it has been photo-edited quite heavily (and IMO, quite poorly) prior to publication.
It is possible to put both the cropped photo and the uncropped photo into any half decent photo editing software to have a look at the light spectrum of each. I happen to use GIMP.
For the cropped photo, the light spectrum is concentrated very much at the bright end. For the uncropped photo, it is all below mid-level.
The original is actually quite poor. Whoever took it should have zoomed in a lot more on Madeleine and dropped a lot of the court. That means the camera was trying to balance on the green of the court, and Madeleine's colours have suffered as a result.
I am not certain, but it looks like the original was first cropped, then the brightness and contrast adjusted. It would probably have worked better the other way i.e. adjusting the uncropped image with the original blend of colours, then cropping. There now seems to be several Photoshopped variants of the cropped variant in circulation. I don't think it is wise to add another fake photo, so I'll give that experiment a miss.
For those who like the details, I've got the 2 photos and their associated light spectrums ready to go. I'll stick those up on my blog later today, and those interested can see for themselves.
The bottom line is neither is very good. The uncropped one has poor colour balance and brightness, and the cropped one is worse.
Basically, one cannot rely on the cropped one as an accurate depiction (colours, brightness etc.). At the very least, comparison with The Last Photo would require a better job on the uncropped one. The cropped tennis balls photo has no redeeming feature from a technical viewpoint.
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The CROPPED tennis ball photo is a 'fake' in the sense that it has been photo-edited quite heavily (and IMO, quite poorly) prior to publication.
It is possible to put both the cropped photo and the uncropped photo into any half decent photo editing software to have a look at the light spectrum of each. I happen to use GIMP.
For the cropped photo, the light spectrum is concentrated very much at the bright end. For the uncropped photo, it is all below mid-level.
The original is actually quite poor. Whoever took it should have zoomed in a lot more on Madeleine and dropped a lot of the court. That means the camera was trying to balance on the green of the court, and Madeleine's colours have suffered as a result.
I am not certain, but it looks like the original was first cropped, then the brightness and contrast adjusted. It would probably have worked better the other way i.e. adjusting the uncropped image with the original blend of colours, then cropping. There now seems to be several Photoshopped variants of the cropped variant in circulation. I don't think it is wise to add another fake photo, so I'll give that experiment a miss.
For those who like the details, I've got the 2 photos and their associated light spectrums ready to go. I'll stick those up on my blog later today, and those interested can see for themselves.
The bottom line is neither is very good. The uncropped one has poor colour balance and brightness, and the cropped one is worse.
Basically, one cannot rely on the cropped one as an accurate depiction (colours, brightness etc.). At the very least, comparison with The Last Photo would require a better job on the uncropped one. The cropped tennis balls photo has no redeeming feature from a technical viewpoint.
I've never seen the original uncropped photo. Can you put it up on here, or send me a pm?
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No, it wasn't Criminal.
How do you know? we are told a crime has taken place.. what that crime is we do not know. The parents therefore facilitated a crime- hence- criminal.
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Certainly morally reprehensible, IMO
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I've never seen the original uncropped photo. Can you put it up on here, or send me a pm?
Please see reply 22 in this topic, where the uncropped one was posted.
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Ah, thanks. I thought you meant that it was part of a much bigger picture, rather than just having a bit cropped off the top - one that might have shown Gerry or other people on court.
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How do you know? we are told a crime has taken place.. what that crime is we do not know. The parents therefore facilitated a crime- hence- criminal.
The McCanns did not commit a Criminal Offence.
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The McCanns did not commit a Criminal Offence.
At this point, we do not know who committed a crime in this case, assuming she did not walk out of the apartment herself and then had an accident which involved no one else.
There are several possible permutations as to what could have happened, the unfortunate thing is, there is no evidence of anything that could be pursued in court.
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it has been mentioned ...that the P J was not interested in the photo ...you will find ...1 min into the link ..there was a lot of interest
how can you get over the fact ...that only five pictures were took of maddie ...[on a mini weekend i have just been on i have took about 40 pics as usually you dont take just the one ...you take three or four of the same thing just in case one does not turn out
the vid shows a lot of discrepancies from the statements ....that should not be just ignored...[pointless me writing it when it can be shown]
apparently ...it is mentioned that the shutters were repaired my maintenance men in mccs apartment ....around 6 30..[on vid].so strange there were no finger prints from them....and never seen this mentioned
the tennis court seems wet yet was maddie allowed to run around on wet turf ...if so no scuff marks on socks or sandals
the main point here is .....why do others claim to have took the photo..when kmcc calls it my pic ...in her book...
was there other photo's ...but wasn't shown for some reason
why is there so much discrepancies ...around this photo ....why do they all remember minute detail.yet one of them is only true...its only a photo .[tennis lesson]what is it suppose to prove .....but if the possibly the truth is not told about this ....what else is being covered up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV4bFKxG2NY
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Do we actually know for definite how many piccies were taken that week?
Could it be that there are other photos of Madeleine, but which also clearly show other children - whose parents the McCanns realised - would not be happy to have their faces put into the public arena?
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it has been mentioned ...that the P J was not interested in the photo ...you will find ...1 min into the link ..there was a lot of interest
how can you get over the fact ...that only five pictures were took of maddie ...[on a mini weekend i have just been on i have took about 40 pics as usually you dont take just the one ...you take three or four of the same thing just in case one does not turn out
the vid shows a lot of discrepancies from the statements ....that should not be just ignored...[pointless me writing it when it can be shown]
apparently ...it is mentioned that the shutters were repaired my maintenance men in mccs apartment ....around 6 30..[on vid].so strange there were no finger prints from them....and never seen this mentioned
the tennis court seems wet yet was maddie allowed to run around on wet turf ...if so no scuff marks on socks or sandals
the main point here is .....why do others claim to have took the photo..when kmcc calls it my pic ...in her book...
was there other photo's ...but wasn't shown for some reason
why is there so much discrepancies ...around this photo ....why do they all remember minute detail.yet one of them is only true...its only a photo .[tennis lesson]what is it suppose to prove .....but if the possibly the truth is not told about this ....what else is being covered up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV4bFKxG2NY
I think members have shown conclusively that the conspiracy theory concerning the photograph in question is without foundation and any alleged discrepancy may be entirely in the eye of the beholder.
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Do we actually know for definite how many piccies were taken that week?
Could it be that there are other photos of Madeleine, but which also clearly show other children - whose parents the McCanns realised - would not be happy to have their faces put into the public arena?
There definitely were many more photographs taken that week with various cameras. The files record they were transferred to CD and handed to the police.
Words fail me that irrespective of how many photographs were taken whether one or one hundred, it has been turned into yet another pejorative discussion point.
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I think members have shown conclusively that the conspiracy theory concerning the photograph in question is without foundation and any alleged discrepancy may be entirely in the eye of the beholder.
I agree. If there was a conspiracy to convince people that a photo of Madeleine had been taken by Kate - then both JT and Rachael would have said Yes' it happened on such and such day' and 'Yes we saw Madeleine collecting tennis balls' and ' Yes we saw Kate fetch her camera' and ' Yes we saw her taking the photograph'.
It's just common sense.
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Do we actually know for definite how many piccies were taken that week?
Could it be that there are other photos of Madeleine, but which also clearly show other children - whose parents the McCanns realised - would not be happy to have their faces put into the public arena?
well i don't see how you work that out benice ...when there are pictures on the net...
i would also say the mccs ....don't really care about others ...or there feelings
was there any photo's in kmccs book.............in anticipation of a no .....that would be strange ....but not if there was only a couple [5]
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did you see on the interview with G A ..........there was a lot more to that photo
at 1 min into the vid.......
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Just exactly what is the big deal with this Photograph. It's a photograph for recognition. Who took it and when is irrelevant. Unless someone can prove otherwise.
Like, let's take a photo of Madeleine with Tennis Balls in case she is going to be dead soon. And then we can argue about who took and when, just to confuse everyone.
So this is all looking a bit Libellous to me.
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Just exactly what is the big deal with this Photograph. It's a photograph for recognition. Who took it and when is irrelevant. Unless someone can prove otherwise.
Like, let's take a photo of Madeleine with Tennis Balls in case she is going to be dead soon. And then we can argue about who took and when, just to confuse everyone.
So this is all looking a bit Libellous to me.
well if you think that .you can always request the thread to be deleted
just because you Eleanor have no interest in this ......it doesn't mean to say ...others are not interested who view this thread..
and the small point .....of all the discrepancies surrounding it .....why was there so much interest in it for them to be questioned about it in the first place.... eh
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I can understand why the last photo by the pool was rejected when they were looking for a picture of Madeleine to give to the police, because it contained other people. I wonder why the tennis photo was not used though. It contained the child on her own, she was facing the camera and it was recent.
Was the photo among the holiday photos given to the PJ? Was the last photo by the pool among them? Were any of the photos given to the PJ taken on the McCann's camera?
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well if you think that .you can always request the thread to be deleted
just because you Eleanor have no interest in this ......it doesn't mean to say ...others are not interested who view this thread..
and the small point .....of all the discrepancies surrounding it .....why was there so much interest in it for them to be questioned about it in the first place.... eh
Amaral wasn't the brightest spanner in the tool box, was he. But do you have a cite containing the questions that were asked?
Delete The Thread? Why? It isn't actually Libellous. So why should I spoil your fun.
However, apart from that, it doesn't prevent me from asking question and expressing an opinion.
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Both Jane and Kate took a photo of Madeleine with the tennis balls, there is nothing sinister about it at all, Kate's photo was used by the press.
What bruise? I can't see a bruise on Madeleine's arm.
So Rachael got confused about when she saw Madeleine, why would she cover anything up?
To say the friends all acted as a cover up to make out Madeleine was alive on the Thursday is absolutely crazy.
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Both Jane and Kate took a photo of Madeleine with the tennis balls, there is nothing sinister about it at all, Kate's photo was used by the press.
What bruise? I can't see a bruise on Madeleine's arm.
So Rachael got confused about when she saw Madeleine, why would she cover anything up?
To say the friends all acted as a cover up to make out Madeleine was alive on the Thursday is absolutely crazy.
This would take some really serious, advanced Cover Up. It isn't merely crazy, but bordering on the insane.
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Amaral wasn't the brightest spanner in the tool box, was he. But do you have a cite containing the questions that were asked?
Delete The Thread? Why? It isn't actually Libellous. So why should I spoil your fun.
However, apart from that, it doesn't prevent me from asking question and expressing an opinion.
quote
So this is all looking a bit Libellous to me.
any way...............why on earth do you call it fun............do you think by not believing maddie was not abducted its funny..and i am having a laugh...well i can assure you i am not..
what a horrible expression to use ....there is nothing funny about ...wanting to know the truth about what happened to a child ...maddie...its not set in stone maddie was abducted ...no proof ....so you don't know ...what happened to her ....and i sometimes wonder ...if you [others] care...what happened ...as long as the mccs are protected
i believe ....there is something very wrong with ....what surrounds that photo ...same as a hell of a lot more things in this case ...that just do not add up
as for cites ....watch the tape...or look at there statments
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I can understand why the last photo by the pool was rejected when they were looking for a picture of Madeleine to give to the police, because it contained other people. I wonder why the tennis photo was not used though. It contained the child on her own, she was facing the camera and it was recent.
Was the photo among the holiday photos given to the PJ? Was the last photo by the pool among them? Were any of the photos given to the PJ taken on the McCann's camera?
exactly .........was it to cause confusement ....because if not ....it most certainly did...
and how the little boy recognised maddie from that ...i just don't know....
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This would take some really serious, advanced Cover Up. It isn't merely crazy, but bordering on the insane.
Agreed, in fact the whole "not at creche" theory is insane and totally in the wrong direction IMO.
And image compression in cameras produces false effects.
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Both Jane and Kate took a photo of Madeleine with the tennis balls, there is nothing sinister about it at all, Kate's photo was used by the press.
What bruise? I can't see a bruise on Madeleine's arm.
So Rachael got confused about when she saw Madeleine, why would she cover anything up?
To say the friends all acted as a cover up to make out Madeleine was alive on the Thursday is absolutely crazy.
who said it was the thursday ..............if that was the case ....maddie had to be changed before the very last photo...into her bestest cloths ....to go to the creche ...to get them soiled .....
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This would take some really serious, advanced Cover Up. It isn't merely crazy, but bordering on the insane.
so why all the sudden interst .........why take the time to post ...or is it just to defend the mccs...u seem to be out in force ...
.when there has been little activity on the thread ...since last night....why do you all need to defend them so much
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quote
So this is all looking a bit Libellous to me.
any way...............why on earth do you call it fun............do you think by not believing maddie was not abducted its funny..and i am having a laugh...well i can assure you i am not..
what a horrible expression to use ....there is nothing funny about ...wanting to know the truth about what happened to a child ...maddie...its not set in stone maddie was abducted ...no proof ....so you don't know ...what happened to her ....and i sometimes wonder ...if you [others] care...what happened ...as long as the mccs are protected
i believe ....there is something very wrong with ....what surrounds that photo ...same as a hell of a lot more things in this case ...that just do not add up
as for cites ....watch the tape...or look at there statments
I would like to see The Questions and who asked them, about this particular Photo.
What you think of me is of no interest to me.
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who said it was the thursday ..............if that was the case ....maddie had to be changed before the very last photo...into her bestest cloths ....to go to the creche ...to get them soiled .....
Listen xtina you do know this whole conspiracy is just to sell video's don't you?
A little girl is missing and some are making wild allegations as to what happened they have to come up with something outrageous as that is what gets the publics interest, sad thing is it is all to make money out of a missing child.
No normal decent people would lie to the police about seeing a child who wasn't there, there are numerous people who saw Madeleine through the week, they are normal people who would not lie to protect parents who had hidden their childs body, their careers and everything they held dear would have been put on the line, if Madeleine had been found.
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so why all the sudden interst .........why take the time to post ...or is it just to defend the mccs...u seem to be out in force ...
.when there has been little activity on the thread ...since last night....why do you all need to defend them so much
Nothing interesting going on at the moment, which is why everyone is getting leeway. And I have to be here anyway.
Innocent Until Proven Guilty, which we all have right to defend.
Your suggestion that we don't care about Madeleine is insulting.
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The photo was in the hands of Pat Perkins, Kate's mother's friend by 7th May, when she attached it to an e-mail she sent out;
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAT_PERKINS.htm
In November 2007 the PJ were investigating phone calls to the McCann's phones and went to see the owner of the Pacifico Bar, Vilamoura. He gave them a copy of the e-mail, with the photo, and that seems to be it's only appearance in the PJ Files unless someone knows better?
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The photo was in the hands of Pat Perkins, Kate's mother's friend by 7th May, when she attached it to an e-mail she sent out;
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAT_PERKINS.htm
In November 2007 the PJ were investigating phone calls to the McCann's phones and went to see the owner of the Pacifico Bar, Vilamoura. He gave them a copy of the e-mail, with the photo, and that seems to be it's only appearance in the PJ Files unless someone knows better?
So that's it? No questions about the photo itself?
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The photo was in the hands of Pat Perkins, Kate's mother's friend by 7th May, when she attached it to an e-mail she sent out;
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAT_PERKINS.htm
In November 2007 the PJ were investigating phone calls to the McCann's phones and went to see the owner of the Pacifico Bar, Vilamoura. He gave them a copy of the e-mail, with the photo, and that seems to be it's only appearance in the PJ Files unless someone knows better?
Interesting comment in the email you link:
"Police and all of Portugal are trying to find her. The Portuguese people, holidaymakers and expats have been a great support to the family and continue their efforts".
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Listen xtina you do know this whole conspiracy is just to sell video's don't you?
A little girl is missing and some are making wild allegations as to what happened they have to come up with something outrageous as that is what gets the publics interest, sad thing is it is all to make money out of a missing child.
No normal decent people would lie to the police about seeing a child who wasn't there, there are numerous people who saw Madeleine through the week, they are normal people who would not lie to protect parents who had hidden their childs body, their careers and everything they held dear would have been put on the line, if Madeleine had been found.
I fail to appreciate the thought process that supposes strangers would acquiesce in a plot to hide a child's body.
It is too bizarre for words.
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I fail to appreciate the thought process that supposes strangers would acquiesce in a plot to hide a child's body.
It is too bizarre for words.
This has gone on for far too long. But at least we are now discussing on this Forum. Please all be thankful for what you get here.
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I can understand why the last photo by the pool was rejected when they were looking for a picture of Madeleine to give to the police, because it contained other people. I wonder why the tennis photo was not used though. It contained the child on her own, she was facing the camera and it was recent.
Was the photo among the holiday photos given to the PJ? Was the last photo by the pool among them? Were any of the photos given to the PJ taken on the McCann's camera?
The Last Photo EXIF says the camera was the same model as Kate's.
I cannot get any EXIF extractor to work with a copy of the Tennis Balls photo, to see if the camera model is the same or different. That's possibly because I don't know what I'm doing.
The Last Photo is well composed, and has good brightness and contrast.
The Tennis Balls photo is poorly composed, and has poor brightness and contrast.
Perhaps the Tennis Balls photo was rushed, while there was more time for the Last Photo. Or perhaps they were taken by 2 different people.
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I fail to appreciate the thought process that supposes strangers would acquiesce in a plot to hide a child's body.
It is too bizarre for words.
At the risk of my being blackballed, Wonderfulspam was telling you that about two years ago.
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The Last Photo EXIF says the camera was the same model as Kate's.
I cannot get any EXIF extractor to work with a copy of the Tennis Balls photo, to see if the camera model is the same or different. That's possibly because I don't know what I'm doing.
The Last Photo is well composed, and has good brightness and contrast.
The Tennis Balls photo is poorly composed, and has poor brightness and contrast.
Perhaps the Tennis Balls photo was rushed, while there was more time for the Last Photo. Or perhaps they were taken by 2 different people.
There was time to pose the pool photograph. The tennis ball photo looks as if Madeleine was called and had just looked around from her activity to be quickly snapped.
What is the betting she dropped the balls as a result.
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So that's it? No questions about the photo itself?
The group's holiday photos seem to have been put onto CD'S and given to the PJ by Gerry and Michael Wright at some point before 10th May. I can't find copies of the tennis photo or the last photo in the PJ Files, so the question arising is were the McCann's photos handed over?
Alex Woolfall from Bell Pottinger is supposed to have transferred photos from the McCann's camera to a laptop and from there he sent them to the Press Association in London, who distributed them to the media;
Mr Woolfall transmitted the photographs to the Press Association in London, from where they were distributed to the media. The portfolio included the now famous image of Madeleine wearing a hat on a tennis court.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id65.html
There are 2,524 images associated with Madeleine McCann on the Press Association website, but I can't see the tennis one in the first two weeks after the disapperance, which is when Woolfall was there.
https://www.paimages.co.uk/search-results/fluid/?category=A,S,E&oldestfirst=1&page=8&text=madeleine%20mccann&user_q=madeleine%20mccann
So the photo doesn't seem to have been given to the PJ with all the other holiday photos, and it doesn't seem to have been sent to the Press Association. The only people who seemed to have access to it were family and friends. Pat Perkins used it in her email on 7th May, and it appeared on a poster at some point.
For Pat Perkins to have the photo by 7th May someone in Portugal either sent it directly to her or the McCann's photo's were uploaded to the file transfer protocol which Jon Corner set up on 4 May to circulate Madeleine’s image to family, friends and other supporters.
My conclusion is that the photo can't be shown to have been on the McCann's camera, otherwise it should be on the Press Association website.
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The group's holiday photos seem to have been put onto CD'S and given to the PJ by Gerry and Michael Wright at some point before 10th May. I can't find copies of the tennis photo or the last photo in the PJ Files, so the question arising is were the McCann's photos handed over?
Alex Woolfall from Bell Pottinger is supposed to have transferred photos from the McCann's camera to a laptop and from there he sent them to the Press Association in London, who distributed them to the media;
Mr Woolfall transmitted the photographs to the Press Association in London, from where they were distributed to the media. The portfolio included the now famous image of Madeleine wearing a hat on a tennis court.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id65.html
There are 2,524 images associated with Madeleine McCann on the Press Association website, but I can't see the tennis one in the first two weeks after the disapperance, which is when Woolfall was there.
https://www.paimages.co.uk/search-results/fluid/?category=A,S,E&oldestfirst=1&page=8&text=madeleine%20mccann&user_q=madeleine%20mccann
So the photo doesn't seem to have been given to the PJ with all the other holiday photos, and it doesn't seem to have been sent to the Press Association. The only people who seemed to have access to it were family and friends. Pat Perkins used it in her email on 7th May, and it appeared on a poster at some point.
For Pat Perkins to have the photo by 7th May someone in Portugal either sent it directly to her or the McCann's photo's were uploaded to the file transfer protocol which Jon Corner set up on 4 May to circulate Madeleine’s image to family, friends and other supporters.
My conclusion is that the photo can't be shown to have been on the McCann's camera, otherwise it should be on the Press Association website.
So No Questions were ever asked officially.
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I would like to see The Questions and who asked them, about this particular Photo.
What you think of me is of no interest to me.
on the contrary Eleanor................what i think of you is no interest to me either ...I'm sure in R W you are a very nice person............. same as me
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Listen xtina you do know this whole conspiracy is just to sell video's don't you?
A little girl is missing and some are making wild allegations as to what happened they have to come up with something outrageous as that is what gets the publics interest, sad thing is it is all to make money out of a missing child.
No normal decent people would lie to the police about seeing a child who wasn't there, there are numerous people who saw Madeleine through the week, they are normal people who would not lie to protect parents who had hidden their childs body, their careers and everything they held dear would have been put on the line, if Madeleine had been found.
No lace you listen............lets put this in reverse shall we
no one has made more money than the mccs from maddie
nothing more outrageous to me .than the abduction...
no one is saying anyone lied ....mistaken ....or what they assumed they saw
what did gmcc say ...find the body ..prove we killed her.. ...same as them planning a concert for a year on ...so i think it safe to assume maddie was not going to be found in the near future ...
the 12 or so lawyers well took care of there careers...and them
nothing is worse than the panorama and others promoting the abduction video..........but interesting all the same
how can you say R H has done this to make money ....when the video is free ...and he willingly gives permission to down load the video and spread it far and wide for free.
i didn't need R H to tell me ....the abduction never took place ....he is just in a position to show all the many discrepancies.........and it seems to not just stand back and be fed ...what the mccs want us all to believe non of the films have ever been challenged either ...and have been there for years
she goes into the apartment ...finds maddie missing...knows straight away maddie has been abducted....searches the apartment ...yet still runs out leaving twins in apartment with open window/door....and puts twins in creche again the next day ...why...because she knew it was safe ....same as letting all in apartment ...destroying evidence ...because she knew there wouldn't be any ....as it turned out there wasn't
on the tennis ball photo ....were did the sunburn come from ....yet on the supposedly last photo there wasn't any....
what does G A know about the tennis photo ...that he never got chance to show ....one of the biggest travesty's of all this ...is that he got took off the case
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on the contrary Eleanor................what i think of you is no interest to me either ...I'm sure in R W you are a very nice person............. same as me
Et tois, aussi.
But I would still like to see The Questions, and who asked them.
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Et tois, aussi.
But I would still like to see The Questions, and who asked them.
you will have to look at the statements for that ....
where do you think the sunburn came from on the tennis photo.......but not visible on the last photo
seems the last photo was took first ...before the tennis one doesn't it.
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you will have to look at the statements for that ....
where do you think the sunburn came from on the tennis photo.......but not visible on the last photo
seems the last photo was took first ...before the tennis one doesn't it.
Which Statements?
Sorry, I can't help with light discrepancies on photographs. They happen. Everyone knows that. Well, nearly everyone.
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The Last Photo EXIF says the camera was the same model as Kate's.
I cannot get any EXIF extractor to work with a copy of the Tennis Balls photo, to see if the camera model is the same or different. That's possibly because I don't know what I'm doing.
The Last Photo is well composed, and has good brightness and contrast.
The Tennis Balls photo is poorly composed, and has poor brightness and contrast.
Perhaps the Tennis Balls photo was rushed, while there was more time for the Last Photo. Or perhaps they were taken by 2 different people.
How do we know the model of the McCann's camera? Just wondering.
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Which Statements?
Sorry, I can't help with light discrepancies on photographs. They happen. Everyone knows that. Well, nearly everyone.
who do you mean me .........or kmcc
it wasn't light discrepancies ...it is the way maddie was described in k mccs statement...that she most probably signed
Volume I, pages 58 - 65
Witness statement of Kate Marie Healy, on the 4th of May 2007, at 2.20 p.m.
Location: CID Portimão
Concerning Madeleine, she is Caucasian, with quite white skin, aged four (12/05/2003) about 90cm tall. Of slim build, dark blond hair, straight and of shoulder length. Left eye blue-green, right eye also green with a brown spot on the pupil. She had a small brown spot on the skin of her left leg, as well as a small sunburn on her right forearm. She had no scars. At the time of her disappearance, she was wearing pyjamas,
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How do we know the model of the McCann's camera? Just wondering.
There's the camera and that looks like a map.
(http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/10VOLUMEXaPage2564.jpg)
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There's the camera and that looks like a map.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/10VOLUMEXaPage2564.jpg
That's not a map, IMO it's a childrens colouring book or sticker activity book.
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who do you mean me .........or kmcc
it wasn't light discrepancies ...it is the way maddie was described in k mccs statement...that she most probably signed
Volume I, pages 58 - 65
Witness statement of Kate Marie Healy, on the 4th of May 2007, at 2.20 p.m.
Location: CID Portimão
Concerning Madeleine, she is Caucasian, with quite white skin, aged four (12/05/2003) about 90cm tall. Of slim build, dark blond hair, straight and of shoulder length. Left eye blue-green, right eye also green with a brown spot on the pupil. She had a small brown spot on the skin of her left leg, as well as a small sunburn on her right forearm. She had no scars. At the time of her disappearance, she was wearing pyjamas,
No, you are not alone in thinking that the light discrepancies are important. But that is what they are. They are there in some of the reproductions but not in others. How do you explain that?
However, I am beginning to feel as though I am hounding you. So I shall stop now.
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No, you are not alone in thinking that the light discrepancies are important. But that is what they are. They are there in some of the reproductions but not in others. How do you explain that?
However, I am beginning to feel as though I am hounding you. So I shall stop now.
no worries Eleanor ....souhaiter un bon après-midi
i intend too
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no worries Eleanor ....souhaiter un bon après-midi
i intend too
Thank You. And said with good grace.
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That's not a map, IMO it's a childrens colouring book or sticker activity book.
On the far left looks like a map not the activity book.
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On the far left looks like a map not the activity book.
Under the sunglasses arm - could be a map - but if so why no large atlantic blue area?
BTW obviously the activity book has had its cover removed before this photo taken.
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I don't think the photo is Fake, but I think it may have been taken at The Rothley Tennis Courts. I say this because Maddie's hair is very dark in the photo compared with the photo's in the playground area when they first arrived. Also, we still don't know who took this photo, Jane said she took it and Kate said she took it, so that makes me believe none of them took the photo.
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I don't think the photo is Fake, but I think it may have been taken at The Rothley Tennis Courts. I say this because Maddie's hair is very dark in the photo compared with the photo's in the playground area when they first arrived. Also, we still don't know who took this photo, Jane said she took it and Kate said she took it, so that makes me believe none of them took the photo.
I dont think that is true...do you have evidence to support it
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Kate said she took the photo in her book.
According to Rachael Oldfield's rotatory interview however...
578 'Okay. So we move on then, we move forward to Thursday'.
Reply 'Mmm mmm'.
1578 'The third of May, are you able to summarise the days activities''
Reply 'Yeah, the day was actually, it was different to the others because, well it was warmer weather wise, erm we went to the Millennium for breakfast as usual, erm we did that every day, Gerry and Kate didn't, it was just too far for them to go with the twins, so they didn't ever go for breakfast up there, I think apart from the first morning, erm so Matt, Grace and I went up to the Millennium, there was nobody else there from our group, erm and just as we were finishing and leaving, Russell arrived with Ella and Evie, erm Jane, because their tennis lesson had been cancelled the day before, Jane was in the, stayed back at the Ocean Club to start her lesson, cos that started at nine, erm and so I took Grace to the creche and Matt stayed with Russell, erm and they took Ella, I think they took Ella down to her creche and then the, Matt wanted to go down to the beach and go sailing, erm so I took Grace to creche and then erm Matt and I were having a tennis lesson at eleven o'clock, and so basically it just, you know I just sat by the pool and read my book, sort of waiting for the tennis lesson and Kate, Kate was there and we sat together and had you know, chatted a bit, erm and then I think Diane might have been there as well, remember chatting to Kate cos we were talking about schools and that sort of thing, erm and holidays, erm and then I think it must have been at about ten thirty, Madeleine and Ella and their sort of group came to have a tennis lesson as part of their creche activities, erm and Kate didn't have her camera and Jane was there then as well and Jane took some photos of both Madeleine and Ella, thats one, that poster of Madeleine with the tennis b*lls, that sort of pictures'. 00.51
00.51.21 1578 'That was taken on the''
Reply 'Yeah that was that morning'.
1578 'Thursday''
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm
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Kate said she took the photo in her book.
According to Rachael Oldfield's rotatory interview however...
578 'Okay. So we move on then, we move forward to Thursday'.
Reply 'Mmm mmm'.
1578 'The third of May, are you able to summarise the days activities''
Reply 'Yeah, the day was actually, it was different to the others because, well it was warmer weather wise, erm we went to the Millennium for breakfast as usual, erm we did that every day, Gerry and Kate didn't, it was just too far for them to go with the twins, so they didn't ever go for breakfast up there, I think apart from the first morning, erm so Matt, Grace and I went up to the Millennium, there was nobody else there from our group, erm and just as we were finishing and leaving, Russell arrived with Ella and Evie, erm Jane, because their tennis lesson had been cancelled the day before, Jane was in the, stayed back at the Ocean Club to start her lesson, cos that started at nine, erm and so I took Grace to the creche and Matt stayed with Russell, erm and they took Ella, I think they took Ella down to her creche and then the, Matt wanted to go down to the beach and go sailing, erm so I took Grace to creche and then erm Matt and I were having a tennis lesson at eleven o'clock, and so basically it just, you know I just sat by the pool and read my book, sort of waiting for the tennis lesson and Kate, Kate was there and we sat together and had you know, chatted a bit, erm and then I think Diane might have been there as well, remember chatting to Kate cos we were talking about schools and that sort of thing, erm and holidays, erm and then I think it must have been at about ten thirty, Madeleine and Ella and their sort of group came to have a tennis lesson as part of their creche activities, erm and Kate didn't have her camera and Jane was there then as well and Jane took some photos of both Madeleine and Ella, thats one, that poster of Madeleine with the tennis b*lls, that sort of pictures'. 00.51
00.51.21 1578 'That was taken on the''
Reply 'Yeah that was that morning'.
1578 'Thursday''
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm
Neither is a cite that is easy to check....I've looked at it before and I think you are mistaken....what exactly did Kate say in her book
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Madeleine and Ella came to the adjoining court with their Mini Club for a mini-tennis session. Jane and I stayed to watch them. It chokes me remembering how my heart soared with pride in Madeleine that morning. She was so happy and obviously enjoying herself. Standing there listening intently to Cat’s instructions, she looked so gorgeous in her little T-shirt and shorts, pink hat, ankle socks and new holiday sandals that I ran back to our apartment for my camera to record the occasion. One of my photographs is known around the world now: a smiling Madeleine clutching armfuls of tennis balls. At the end of their session, the children had been asked to run around the court and pick up as many balls as they could. Madeleine had done really well and was very pleased with herself. Gerry loves that picture. (Madeleine by KM)
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Madeleine and Ella came to the adjoining court with their Mini Club for a mini-tennis session. Jane and I stayed to watch them. It chokes me remembering how my heart soared with pride in Madeleine that morning. She was so happy and obviously enjoying herself. Standing there listening intently to Cat’s instructions, she looked so gorgeous in her little T-shirt and shorts, pink hat, ankle socks and new holiday sandals that I ran back to our apartment for my camera to record the occasion. One of my photographs is known around the world now: a smiling Madeleine clutching armfuls of tennis balls. At the end of their session, the children had been asked to run around the court and pick up as many balls as they could. Madeleine had done really well and was very pleased with herself. Gerry loves that picture. (Madeleine by KM)
Correct but didn't Kate return to the apartment to get her camera ...so was Kate's camera used...what does Kate say in her book
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Neither is a cite that is easy to check....I've looked at it before and I think you are mistaken....what exactly did Kate say in her book
I think you are the one who is mistaken;
she looked so gorgeous in her little T-shirt and
shorts, pink hat, ankle socks and new holiday
sandals that I ran back to our apartment for my
camera to record the occasion. One of my
photographs is known around the world now: a
smiling Madeleine clutching armfuls of tennis balls.
At the end of their session, the children had been
asked to run around the court and pick up as many
balls as they could. [madeleine]
I'm surprised that the coaches allowed unsafe footwear and used hard adult balls.
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Madeleine and Ella came to the adjoining court with their Mini Club for a mini-tennis session. Jane and I stayed to watch them. It chokes me remembering how my heart soared with pride in Madeleine that morning. She was so happy and obviously enjoying herself. Standing there listening intently to Cat’s instructions, she looked so gorgeous in her little T-shirt and shorts, pink hat, ankle socks and new holiday sandals that I ran back to our apartment for my camera to record the occasion. One of my photographs is known around the world now: a smiling Madeleine clutching armfuls of tennis balls. At the end of their session, the children had been asked to run around the court and pick up as many balls as they could. Madeleine had done really well and was very pleased with herself. Gerry loves that picture. (Madeleine by KM)
Interestingly, it doesn’t actually say she took the picture on that occasion.
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Interestingly, it doesn’t actually say she took the picture on that occasion.
Nor does it say that she didn't. Unless you can provide a cite.
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I was amazed at the speed with which the photograph was shared with friends. Before or during Monday 7th someone uploaded it from a camera to the internet or e-mail so it could be used in their search.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAT_PERKINS.htm
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No idea who took the photo, but Jane & Kate can't both be right, can they?
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Maybe you should read the quote from her book. Then you will see a sentence saying she got her camera to record the events and another sentence saying her picture was the famous one. An inferred link between the event and the picture but not explicitly stated.
She doesnt say she took the photo....she may claim ownership because its on her camera...remember the monkey
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No idea who took the photo, but Jane & Kate can't both be right, can they?
did they both say they took it...it appears not
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No idea who took the photo, but Jane & Kate can't both be right, can they?
Of course they can. There is "case law" to back it up. Jane, Gerry and Jez and the time space continuum..... 8(0(*
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Kate said she took the photo in her book.
According to Rachael Oldfield's rotatory interview however...
578 'Okay. So we move on then, we move forward to Thursday'.
Reply 'Mmm mmm'.
1578 'The third of May, are you able to summarise the days activities''
Reply 'Yeah, the day was actually, it was different to the others because, well it was warmer weather wise, erm we went to the Millennium for breakfast as usual, erm we did that every day, Gerry and Kate didn't, it was just too far for them to go with the twins, so they didn't ever go for breakfast up there, I think apart from the first morning, erm so Matt, Grace and I went up to the Millennium, there was nobody else there from our group, erm and just as we were finishing and leaving, Russell arrived with Ella and Evie, erm Jane, because their tennis lesson had been cancelled the day before, Jane was in the, stayed back at the Ocean Club to start her lesson, cos that started at nine, erm and so I took Grace to the creche and Matt stayed with Russell, erm and they took Ella, I think they took Ella down to her creche and then the, Matt wanted to go down to the beach and go sailing, erm so I took Grace to creche and then erm Matt and I were having a tennis lesson at eleven o'clock, and so basically it just, you know I just sat by the pool and read my book, sort of waiting for the tennis lesson and Kate, Kate was there and we sat together and had you know, chatted a bit, erm and then I think Diane might have been there as well, remember chatting to Kate cos we were talking about schools and that sort of thing, erm and holidays, erm and then I think it must have been at about ten thirty, Madeleine and Ella and their sort of group came to have a tennis lesson as part of their creche activities, erm and Kate didn't have her camera and Jane was there then as well and Jane took some photos of both Madeleine and Ella, thats one, that poster of Madeleine with the tennis b*lls, that sort of pictures'. 00.51
00.51.21 1578 'That was taken on the''
Reply 'Yeah that was that morning'.
1578 'Thursday''
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm
Clearly we have two people who claimed to have taken a photo of Madeleine on the tennis court on the Thursday morning. Quite possibly they both did at different times, it doesn't however make any clearer the ownership of this particular snap.
There's no reason to think it fake however and that is what this thread discusses.
(http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/13/17/40/69/girl_m10.jpg)
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Clearly we have two people who claimed to have taken a photo of Madeleine on the tennis court on the Thursday morning. Quite possibly they both did at different times, it doesn't however make any clearer the ownership of this particular snap.
There's no reason to think it fake however and that is what this thread discusses.
(http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/13/17/40/69/girl_m10.jpg)
Thankyou John, I have sent similar messages but they have all been removed.
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I know its Friday night guys and the start of yet another weekend of jollyment but please let's have no more naughtiness tonight otherwise the naughty step will be reopened. TY
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Clearly we have two people who claimed to have taken a photo of Madeleine on the tennis court on the Thursday morning. Quite possibly they both did at different times, it doesn't however make any clearer the ownership of this particular snap.
There's no reason to think it fake however and that is what this thread discusses.
The photo is a real photo of Madeleine.
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I believe the Photo is real, but the time and place I'm uncertain.
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I believe the Photo is real, but the time and place I'm uncertain.
The tennis court and surrounds are certainly the same as that installed at the Ocean Club Garden complex in 2007.
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The tennis court and surrounds are certainly the same as that installed at the Ocean Club Garden complex in 2007.
... and in many Tennis Clubs.
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Why do some think the tennis photo is fake? There wasn't just the McCann's there that day there were other people including the nannies. Surely if it was fake someone would have come forward and said so?
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Why do some think the tennis photo is fake? There wasn't just the McCann's there that day there were other people including the nannies. Surely if it was fake someone would have come forward and said so?
The thing that baffles most is the apparent strength and size of Madeleine in the photo. It is a matter of perception trying to imagine how big she was to begin with. How tanned she was. Goncalo must have thought it was real for he could even see bruises on her arms. (I suppose he was looking at an original)
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Why do some think the tennis photo is fake? There wasn't just the McCann's there that day there were other people including the nannies. Surely if it was fake someone would have come forward and said so?
Many photos were made available to friends, family and the media for publicity purposes. Most of them were taken prior to the holiday. When did it emerge that the tennis photo was taken in PdL?
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It appears that there is consensus that the image of Madeleine holding tennis balls is indeed a photograph of Madeleine McCann.
The fact that all camera footage taken by the McCanns and their friends had been given to the Policia Judiciaria for analysis confirms in my opinion that any suggestion that the photograph is a fake is nothing more or less than spurious speculation.
Snip
14 - The PJ checks all photos and footage from the Tapas 9. Clues could be found there. However, there are no photos or footage at night which might have been useful to help understand what happened that evening.
Quote taken from ... A summary of the key points from 'The Truth of the Lie' courtesy of; Proud of the PJ
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Many photos were made available to friends, family and the media for publicity purposes. Most of them were taken prior to the holiday. When did it emerge that the tennis photo was taken in PdL?
Are you trying to say that the photo of Madeleine was taken prior to the holiday?
As I said before, there wasn't just the McCann's there that day the Nannies would know if Madeleine had been collecting balls and how she was dressed.
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Are you trying to say that the photo of Madeleine was taken prior to the holiday?
As I said before, there wasn't just the McCann's there that day the Nannies would know if Madeleine had been collecting balls and how she was dressed.
I think what is being said is we don’t know. There doesn’t appear to be a claim that it was from Kate. To be honest, it doesn’t really matter as long as it was recent.
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I think what is being said is we don’t know. There doesn’t appear to be a claim that it was from Kate. To be honest, it doesn’t really matter as long as it was recent.
Kate says in her book she took a photo of Madeleine collecting the tennis balls.
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Kate says in her book she took a photo of Madeleine collecting the tennis balls.
This where we came in. Please provide the cite and read it carefully.
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This where we came in. Please provide the cite and read it carefully.
Cite for you -
During Gerry's tennis lesson, Madeleine and Ella came to the adjoining court with their Mini Club for a mini-tennis session. Jane and I stayed to watch them. It chokes me remembering how my heart soared with pride in Madeleine that morning. She was so happy and obviously enjoying herself. Standing there listening intently to
Cat's instructions, she looked so gorgeous in her little T.shirt and shorts, pink hat, ankle socks and new holiday sandals, that I ran back to our apartment for my camera to record the occasion. One of my photographs is known around the world now: a smiling Madeleine clutching armfuls of tennis balls. At the end of their session, the children had been asked to run around the court and pick up as many balls as they could. Madeleine had done really well and was very pleased with herself. Gerry loves that picture.
So, Jane was there too, so was the Nanny, and the children were asked to run around the court and pick up the tennis balls. So no one has come forward to say 'nope that wasn't taken at the tennis court in Portugal' have they?
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Cite for you -
During Gerry's tennis lesson, Madeleine and Ella came to the adjoining court with their Mini Club for a mini-tennis session. Jane and I stayed to watch them. It chokes me remembering how my heart soared with pride in Madeleine that morning. She was so happy and obviously enjoying herself. Standing there listening intently to
Cat's instructions, she looked so gorgeous in her little T.shirt and shorts, pink hat, ankle socks and new holiday sandals, that I ran back to our apartment for my camera to record the occasion. One of my photographs is known around the world now: a smiling Madeleine clutching armfuls of tennis balls. At the end of their session, the children had been asked to run around the court and pick up as many balls as they could. Madeleine had done really well and was very pleased with herself. Gerry loves that picture.
So, Jane was there too, so was the Nanny, and the children were asked to run around the court and pick up the tennis balls. So no one has come forward to say 'nope that wasn't taken at the tennis court in Portugal' have they?
Why is there any doubt about this photo and when it was taken...what is the significance of the doubting
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Are you trying to say that the photo of Madeleine was taken prior to the holiday?
As I said before, there wasn't just the McCann's there that day the Nannies would know if Madeleine had been collecting balls and how she was dressed.
I doubt if the nanny (Catriona) or the Tennis coach (Georgina) would remember what one child wore on a certain day. The tennis coach would know whether they used the child-friendly red and yellow balls, perhaps. and whether they allowed sandals on the courts. What they may not have known is that it was being claimed that the photo was taken on Tuesday May 1st. When did that information emerge?
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I doubt if the nanny (Catriona) or the Tennis coach (Georgina) would remember what one child wore on a certain day. The tennis coach would know whether they used the child-friendly red and yellow balls, perhaps. and whether they allowed sandals on the courts. What they may not have known is that it was being claimed that the photo was taken on Tuesday May 1st. When did that information emerge?
Assuming the photo is genuine, it could have been taken at any time when Madeleine was at the tennis courts, not just when she was there for junior tennis.
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Cite for you -
During Gerry's tennis lesson, Madeleine and Ella came to the adjoining court with their Mini Club for a mini-tennis session. Jane and I stayed to watch them. It chokes me remembering how my heart soared with pride in Madeleine that morning. She was so happy and obviously enjoying herself. Standing there listening intently to
Cat's instructions, she looked so gorgeous in her little T.shirt and shorts, pink hat, ankle socks and new holiday sandals, that I ran back to our apartment for my camera to record the occasion. One of my photographs is known around the world now: a smiling Madeleine clutching armfuls of tennis balls. At the end of their session, the children had been asked to run around the court and pick up as many balls as they could. Madeleine had done really well and was very pleased with herself. Gerry loves that picture.
So, Jane was there too, so was the Nanny, and the children were asked to run around the court and pick up the tennis balls. So no one has come forward to say 'nope that wasn't taken at the tennis court in Portugal' have they?
Two sentences, two facts. They may be cause and effect, they may not. It isn’t clear. IMO the McCanns have always been very careful about what they say.
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Assuming the photo is genuine, it could have been taken at any time when Madeleine was at the tennis courts, not just when she was there for junior tennis.
Many tennis courts.
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Why is there any doubt about this photo and when it was taken...what is the significance of the doubting
Why is it important that it be from that time and place?
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Two sentences, two facts. They may be cause and effect, they may not. It isn’t clear. IMO the McCanns have always been very careful about what they say.
I haven't a clue what you are talking about.
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Why is it important that it be from that time and place?
If we was to find out it was taken before the Holiday started, then it becomes less important to the case and one less photo of Maddie taken on the Holiday.
Not forgetting there was very few photo's taken in the first place.
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Real or fake, its purpose was to demonstrate that she was alive & well on the Tuesday . IMO
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If we was to find out it was taken before the Holiday started, then it becomes less important to the case and one less photo of Maddie taken on the Holiday.
Not forgetting there was very few photo's taken in the first place.
It is merely your opinion that few photographs were taken ... please remember the forum protocol that opinion cannot be stated as fact.
It is my opinion that you cannot possibly know how many photographs were taken during the holiday or even whose camera took what, for the simple reason there is no record of the content or total of all the photographs given to the Policia Judiciaria apart from the few photocopies available in the files.
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It appears that the photo is not part of the official files, so it is unlikely that any provenance for It will be available. If anyone thinks they have proof of when or where the photo were taken, I am sure they can provide a cite.
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It appears that the photo is not part of the official files, so it is unlikely that any provenance for It will be available. If anyone thinks they have proof of when or where the photo were taken, I am sure they can provide a cite.
So if it was given to the PJ they have withheld it for some reason. Even then, it was 10th May before anything was given to them. Somehow this photo reached a friend of the family in Liverpool by 7th May though. Someone was busy over the weekend.
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So if it was given to the PJ they have withheld it for some reason. Even then, it was 10th May before anything was given to them. Somehow this photo reached a friend of the family in Liverpool by 7th May though. Someone was busy over the weekend.
Please provide cites in support of your statement. Thank you
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Please provide cites in support of your statement. Thank you
Sent May 7th 2007. 12.29 PM in an email
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAT_PERKINS.htm
(http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P13/13_VOLUME_XIIIa_Page_3404.jpg)
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Real or fake, its purpose was to demonstrate that she was alive & well on the Tuesday . IMO
They didn't need a photo to prove that. Madeleine went to the creche on that day the Nanny in charge would confirm that.
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If we was to find out it was taken before the Holiday started, then it becomes less important to the case and one less photo of Maddie taken on the Holiday.
Not forgetting there was very few photo's taken in the first place.
Why do you say very few photo's were taken? You don't know that. There could be lots, the fact you haven't seen them is no reason to say there aren't any. Probably they had other children in them and so they haven't been made public.
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They didn't need a photo to prove that. Madeleine went to the creche on that day the Nanny in charge would confirm that.
Visual re-enforcement for any verbal evidence.
People can be mistaken, but a photo - who would argue with that, other than photoshop? 8(0(*
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Visual re-enforcement for any verbal evidence.
People can be mistaken, but a photo - who would argue with that, other than photoshop? 8(0(*
In my opinion loads of people have done, can and do spend a very great deal of their time and bandwith on exactly that; arguing and discussing each and every photograph which features Madeleine, ever published in the public domain.
On this thread we are playing groundhog day with yet another discussion of the 'tennis photograph' ... no doubt soon the 'last photograph' will probably receive it's airing on the forum yet again.
The technology does exist, and has done for quite some time to expose photoshop doctored images, so were I you I would have absolutely no fear that the official images of Madeleine have been interfered with for nefarious purposes.
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They didn't need a photo to prove that. Madeleine went to the creche on that day the Nanny in charge would confirm that.
Not to mention countless other holidaymakers/parents who were in the same vicinity as the McCanns and who may have passed them on the street or were at the play area at the same time - or whose children played with Madeleine at the creche that day etc. etc. Families with twins do tend to attract attention.
The idea that it is only those people who gave witness statements saying when they saw Madeleine are the only people who saw her that week is totally unrealistic.
On the other hand there would be no reason for other people who remember seeing her to make a point of letting the authorities know that - as there were no claims being made that she wasn't alive and well on Tuesday.
AIMHO
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Visual re-enforcement for any verbal evidence.
People can be mistaken, but a photo - who would argue with that, other than photoshop? 8(0(*
The trouble with the Tennis Ball photo is the lack of context (if that is that right word) There is no other person in the photo, no background objects to place the scene, no great shadow that would help us discern the time of day it was taken.
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In my opinion loads of people have done, can and do spend a very great deal of their time and bandwith on exactly that; arguing and discussing each and every photograph which features Madeleine, ever published in the public domain.
On this thread we are playing groundhog day with yet another discussion of the 'tennis photograph' ... no doubt soon the 'last photograph' will probably receive it's airing on the forum yet again.
The technology does exist, and has done for quite some time to expose photoshop doctored images, so were I you I would have absolutely no fear that the official images of Madeleine have been interfered with for nefarious purposes.
Certainly true if you have the original high quality data available. More difficult when all that is available is a lower quality version, or even a photograph of a photograph.
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Why do you say very few photo's were taken? You don't know that. There could be lots, the fact you haven't seen them is no reason to say there aren't any. Probably they had other children in them and so they haven't been made public.
The photos in the PJ files show the group's children. It's not clear who submitted them, but it's doubtful that the ones taken in the Payne's apartment or on the beach were the McCann's because they were't there. I don't recall them claiming ownership of the playground photos. They have claimed ownership of just two; the tennis photo and the pool photo. Neither appear in the files. I can think of only two reasons why not.
1. The PJ withheld them.
2. The McCanns didn't surrender them.
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Certainly true if you have the original high quality data available. More difficult when all that is available is a lower quality version, or even a photograph of a photograph.
I think you are right there; just having a look at different copies of the same image which appears on many different sources illustrates your point perfectly. Sometimes the difference is quite marked.
The tennis photograph is a case in point ... I've seen quite a few of that print which have been altered in some way and not necessarily on purpose.
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The trouble with the Tennis Ball photo is the lack of context (if that is that right word) There is no other person in the photo, no background objects to place the scene, no great shadow that would help us discern the time of day it was taken.
The purpose was to highlight Madeleine so that someone might recognise her (not extraneous distracting elbows or other details for wannabe armchair sleuths).
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The trouble with the Tennis Ball photo is the lack of context (if that is that right word) There is no other person in the photo, no background objects to place the scene, no great shadow that would help us discern the time of day it was taken.
But the shaley-orangey colour is correct when compared to OC tapas tennis courts. It is the correct colour and many tennis courts do not have that colour surround. Checked on GE of 2007
Thanks to misty reminding me, I now know that the green is the main playing part of the tennis court.
and that too matches GE representation of OC Tapas courts
I am not sure that this is terribly important tho.
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But the shale is the correct colour and many tennis courts do not have that colour surround. Checked on GE of 2007
Many do.
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Many do.
Agreed, but do many have a playing area in a green colour too? Or an adjoining lawn area?
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But the shale is the correct colour and many tennis courts do not have that colour surround. Checked on GE of 2007
I am not sure whether the green is grass or the main playing part of the tennis court. It could be either, but in the Tapas area it is worth noticing that the orange shaled area adjoins a grassed at its North end.
I am not sure that this is terribly important tho.
It's not a shale court, Sadie. It's an all-weather hard court, which is basically porous tarmac with special anti-slip coloured paint, usually red or green applied to the surface. The lines are painted on after.
I found shale courts difficult to play on as a child as footing is not very secure. Your shoes & socks also end up covered in brown dust. That type of court needs constant sweeping & the line markings are nailed down.
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It's not a shale court, Sadie. It's an all-weather hard court, which is basically porous tarmac with special anti-slip coloured paint, usually red or green applied to the surface. The lines are painted on after.
I found shale courts difficult to play on as a child as footing is not very secure. Your shoes & socks also end up covered in brown dust. That type of court needs constant sweeping & the line markings are nailed down.
You are quite right misty. It is shale coloured and I too used to play on shale courts.
A correction to my previous post where I said the green could be grass. Robin Banks has shown a photo that has not been so cropped and it is clear from lines showing on that the green area is the actual playing area of the courts. It is not grass.
The green/ shaley coloured orange combination is quite common, but so also are other colour combinations. I prefer to think that the photo is campletely genuine and the court colour supports that.
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Agreed, but do many have a playing area in a green colour too? Or an adjoining lawn area?
Yes.
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Yes.
I agree some do, but a lot dont.
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I agree some do, but a lot dont.
It is not beyond the realms of possibility that the photo was taken previously at a local tennis court and used because it was a good photograph.
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It is not beyond the realms of possibility that the photo was taken previously at a local tennis court and used because it was a good photograph.
That is very logical.
The photograph was taken in Praia da Luz. So what?
The photograph was taken elsewhere. So what?
There is absolutely no question that wherever it was taken ... it is a photograph of Madeleine McCann ... and therefore it cannot possibly be a fake.
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That is very logical.
The photograph was taken in Praia da Luz. So what?
The photograph was taken elsewhere. So what?
There is absolutely no question that wherever it was taken ... it is a photograph of Madeleine McCann ... and therefore it cannot possibly be a fake.
In that case it would be the event attributed to it that would be fake - i.e. the date and time.
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It is getting very silly in my opinion to say that this photo was taken before the holiday or on another day of the holiday.
It can be easily checked out by asking the nanny and the instructor. Why would they lie?
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In that case it would be the event attributed to it that would be fake - i.e. the date and time.
Exact knowledge of that information would in my opinion be required to enable meaningful discussion ... do you possess it? I would tend to start with the person who actually took the photograph having more information regarding that than internet sleuths.
Corroborated of course with the information retained in respective cameras recording the occasion: the police were given that information and not all of what they were given appeared in the files.
In my opinion without access to that information ... all is guesswork and innuendo ... but in the terms of the thread and the OP, the photograph of Madeleine is not a fake.
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I don't think the photo is a fake, but I also don't think it was taken in Luz. My reasons are that the balls are adult balls which children wouldn't have been using, and I don't think a tennis coach would allow sandals to be worn. I'm also surprised at the speed with which the photo was shared with friends.
So what?
We were told it was taken in Luz.
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I don't think the photo is a fake, but I also don't think it was taken in Luz. My reasons are that the balls are adult balls which children wouldn't have been using, and I don't think a tennis coach would allow sandals to be worn. I'm also surprised at the speed with which the photo was shared with friends.
So what?
We were told it was taken in Luz.
They were very young children, there wasn't a serious game of tennis going on was there?
It is likely that one of the adults gently tossed the ball to the child and the other adult held the child's arm to help hit it. Or they had them bounce a ball and try to hit it.
As for the sandals not allowed, again they were small children, not playing a serious game of tennis.
If you are correct, then why hasn't anyone come forward and said 'No we wouldn't have done that with them'.
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I don't think the photo is a fake, but I also don't think it was taken in Luz. My reasons are that the balls are adult balls which children wouldn't have been using, and I don't think a tennis coach would allow sandals to be worn. I'm also surprised at the speed with which the photo was shared with friends.
So what?
We were told it was taken in Luz.
With respect G - they were on holiday - not training for Wimbledon. I doubt if such meticulous rules would have been applied to children simply having fun. It would seem that it was Cat and not a tennis coach who supervised the children's tennis session.
Quote from Kate's book
During Gerry's tennis lesson, Madeleine and Ella came to the adjoining court with their Mini Club for a mini-tennis session. Jane and I stayed to watch them. It chokes me remembering how my heart soared with pride in Madeleine that morning. She was so happy and obviously enjoying herself. Standing there listening intently to Cat's instructions.........snip
End quote
I'm struggling to understand what 'cunning plan' could possibly have been devised which required Kate to make up an untrue account of what happened. What would the purpose of that 'plan' be? It makes no sense to me.
I see nothing odd in a very recent photograph of Madeleine being sent to one of their friends who had offered to help back in the UK . They were frantic to get the news of her disappearance out into the public domain at the time - but had been told by the PJ that there could be no publicity in Portugal. It was left to them to appeal to the the public for help via their friends. They chose to send the tennis ball piccie. For the life of me I can't see anything sinister in any of that.
AIMHO
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Georgina Jackson was the tennis instructor not Cat LOL.
She relates it was one of the preferred activities of the McCann couple in that they had several lessons throughout the days and up to the date of the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine, it being that the child also had a class, on Tuesday, 1 May (10-11h00), that class [in which] she was among a group of children was conducted by the deponent. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/Georgina_Jackson.htm
Date of activity: 2007/05/08 Hour: 16H20 Locale: Praia da Luz
Profession: Tennis instructor
Work location: Mark Warner The Ocean Club Praia da Luz
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I have searched the internet and can't find one example of small children playing tennis at Mark Warner with adult balls.
Georgina took the lesson;
Madeleine, it being that the child also had a class, on Tuesday, 1 May (10-11h00), that class [in which] she was among a group of children was conducted by the deponent.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/Georgina_Jackson.htm
(https://o.aolcdn.com/images/dims?resize=640%2C426&image_uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blogcdn.com%2Ftravel.aol.co.uk%2Fmedia%2F2012%2F06%2Ftennis.jpg&client=cbc79c14efcebee57402&signature=477ae5b01228b47c78a092be586cfceec7ebbc76)
https://www.aol.co.uk/travel/photos/top-ten-family-holiday-companies/98987/
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I have searched the internet and can't find one example of small children playing tennis at Mark Warner with adult balls.
Georgina took the lesson;
Madeleine, it being that the child also had a class, on Tuesday, 1 May (10-11h00), that class [in which] she was among a group of children was conducted by the deponent.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/Georgina_Jackson.htm
(https://o.aolcdn.com/images/dims?resize=640%2C426&image_uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blogcdn.com%2Ftravel.aol.co.uk%2Fmedia%2F2012%2F06%2Ftennis.jpg&client=cbc79c14efcebee57402&signature=477ae5b01228b47c78a092be586cfceec7ebbc76)
https://www.aol.co.uk/travel/photos/top-ten-family-holiday-companies/98987/
The only person I can discern wearing white sneakers is the coach...
Re the balls, what is normally used, and what size are they?
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Georgina Jackson was the tennis instructor not Cat LOL.
She relates it was one of the preferred activities of the McCann couple in that they had several lessons throughout the days and up to the date of the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine, it being that the child also had a class, on Tuesday, 1 May (10-11h00), that class [in which] she was among a group of children was conducted by the deponent. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/Georgina_Jackson.htm
Date of activity: 2007/05/08 Hour: 16H20 Locale: Praia da Luz
Profession: Tennis instructor
Work location: Mark Warner The Ocean Club Praia da Luz
So there we have it then, the tennis instructor confirming that Madeleine played mini tennis, so why are some saying it didn't happen?
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So there we have it then, the tennis instructor confirming that Madeleine played mini tennis, so why are some saying it didn't happen?
Are they? I thought we were discussing the provenance of the photograph, not the tennis lesson.
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The large photo is real and is consistent with 1 May 2007 around 11 am.
The large photo is in the LINK in the OP.
The photo fits the date/time given by the tennis instructor - Georgina whoever.
The photo fits the description of the event given by Kate on p57 (hardback).
The photo fits the description of the weather at lunchtime on 1 May 2007. Trip to the beach for ice cream - rained (p57).
The photo fits the layout of the OC tennis courts and the position of the sun on 1 May 2007 at around 11 am.
The next bit I did on my blog in March 2016, but for those who missed it ....
The large photo colour spectrum is bunched below the centre, which is why it looks dull and lifeless.
The small photo colour spectrum is shunted way over to the white end. That is why the colours and brightness are so distorted. It is a very poor quality edit.
The photo was taken from the north end of one of the two tennis pitches. I cannot tell which, nor do I care.
The large photo is real.
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I don't think the photo is a fake, but I also don't think it was taken in Luz. My reasons are that the balls are adult balls which children wouldn't have been using, and I don't think a tennis coach would allow sandals to be worn. I'm also surprised at the speed with which the photo was shared with friends.
So what?
We were told it was taken in Luz.
Didn't it say somewhere (Gawd knows where, but someone may be able to confirm this) that Madeleine was running around picking up the balls in an adult game of tennis ?
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I have searched the internet and can't find one example of small children playing tennis at Mark Warner with adult balls.
Georgina took the lesson;
Madeleine, it being that the child also had a class, on Tuesday, 1 May (10-11h00), that class [in which] she was among a group of children was conducted by the deponent.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/Georgina_Jackson.htm
(https://o.aolcdn.com/images/dims?resize=640%2C426&image_uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blogcdn.com%2Ftravel.aol.co.uk%2Fmedia%2F2012%2F06%2Ftennis.jpg&client=cbc79c14efcebee57402&signature=477ae5b01228b47c78a092be586cfceec7ebbc76)
https://www.aol.co.uk/travel/photos/top-ten-family-holiday-companies/98987/
As discussed before, Gunit, that IS NOT an OC tennis lesson in the Tapas area anyway. Dont you remember it ?
I am not aware of any other OC tennis Courts.
Wrong coloured Court. Should be green, surrounded by a shaley orange colored Area. No shaley orange on that photo of the court. Suggest any disbelievers check colours on GE.
So what has this piccie got to do with Madeleine ?
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As discussed before, Gunit, that IS NOT an OC tennis lesson in the Tapas area anyway. Dont you remember it ?
I am not aware of any other OC tennis Courts.
Wrong coloured Court. Should be green, surrounded by a shaley orange colored Area. No shaley orange on that photo of the court. Suggest any disbelievers check colours on GE.
So what has this piccie got to do with Madeleine ?
I think Gunit was trying to show that children's tennis should if possible be undertaken with slower balls which bounce lower. These balls are coloured or multicoloured as depicted in the photo in order to distinguish them from normal tennis balls.
(http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0698/0337/files/blog_infographic_JRMon_ProgTennBalls_large.jpg?2872696450739784564)
The original unedited photo of Madeleine above would appear to show her after collecting tennis balls from an adult game rather than taking part in a game herself.
For the record, I seem to recall creating the overexposed edited image so no mystery.
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The thing that baffles most is the apparent strength and size of Madeleine in the photo. It is a matter of perception trying to imagine how big she was to begin with. How tanned she was. Goncalo must have thought it was real for he could even see bruises on her arms. (I suppose he was looking at an original)
That is why that particular photo is extremely useful. Madeleine was not a toddler, she was quite capable of getting out of her parent's apartment had she wanted to, we know that she was a determined young girl. A closed but unlocked patio door and a child safety gate were no impediment to her as some have previously claimed.
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I think Gunit was trying to show that children's tennis should if possible be undertaken with slower balls which bounce lower. These balls are coloured or multicoloured as depicted in the photo in order to distinguish them from normal tennis balls.
(http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0698/0337/files/blog_infographic_JRMon_ProgTennBalls_large.jpg?2872696450739784564)
The original unedited photo of Madeleine above would appear to show her after collecting tennis balls from an adult game rather than taking part in a game herself.
For the record, I seem to recall creating the overexposed edited image so no mystery.
Thank you John, that's what I was pointing out. I also posted a pic of Mark Warner coaches using the correct balls with young players, as they should. All the coaches in all the MW resorts would do the same.
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Didn't it say somewhere (Gawd knows where, but someone may be able to confirm this) that Madeleine was running around picking up the balls in an adult game of tennis ?
Kate doesn't actually WHAT tennis balls they were asked to collect Sadie, so it could be that they were asked to collect all tennis balls.
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Are they? I thought we were discussing the provenance of the photograph, not the tennis lesson.
So what you are saying is, Madeleine DID have a mini tennis game, just as Kate claimed she did, BUT it so happens that Madeleine had her photograph taken collecting balls from another time she played collecting tennis balls in another court somewhere else, and Kate just happened to take a photo of her collecting the balls in another court in another place? Was Jane there taking a photo too of this other place?
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So what you are saying is, Madeleine DID have a mini tennis game, just as Kate claimed she did, BUT it so happens that Madeleine had her photograph taken collecting balls from another time she played collecting tennis balls in another court somewhere else, and Kate just happened to take a photo of her collecting the balls in another court in another place? Was Jane there taking a photo too of this other place?
What I am saying is that most tennis coaches, including the Mark Warner coaches, use tennis balls appropriate to the age group of the players. As Madeleine is clutching adult tennis balls it seems unlikely that they had been used by the Minis. I suppose they could have been left lying around the court by previous players.
Jane Tanner says she was there, but she thought it was Wednesday. She denies taking any photos of the children and doesn't mention Kate rushing off to get her camera. Jane also thinks she played tennis with Rachael for an hour every morning though, which Rachael denies......
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What I am saying is that most tennis coaches, including the Mark Warner coaches, use tennis balls appropriate to the age group of the players. As Madeleine is clutching adult tennis balls it seems unlikely that they had been used by the Minis. I suppose they could have been left lying around the court by previous players.
Jane Tanner says she was there, but she thought it was Wednesday. She denies taking any photos of the children and doesn't mention Kate rushing off to get her camera. Jane also thinks she played tennis with Rachael for an hour every morning though, which Rachael denies......
YUP.
And Kate doesn't say she took the picture on that day- that day they all get confused about.
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That is why that particular photo is extremely useful. Madeleine was not a toddler, she was quite capable of getting out of her parent's apartment had she wanted to, we know that she was a determined young girl. A closed but unlocked patio door and a child safety gate were no impediment to her as some have previously claimed.
I still think Kate's point was that Madeleine would not have bothered to close the doors and gates behind her rather than Kate doubting Madeleine was capable of opening these doors and gates. Kate knows Madeleine and she would not have opened and closed those all in sequence.
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I still think Kate's point was that Madeleine would not have bothered to close the doors and gates behind her rather than Kate doubting Madeleine was capable of opening these doors and gates. Kate knows Madeleine and she would not have opened and closed those all in sequence.
We have no independent proof that the door or gate were closed.
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I still think Kate's point was that Madeleine would not have bothered to close the doors and gates behind her rather than Kate doubting Madeleine was capable of opening these doors and gates. Kate knows Madeleine and she would not have opened and closed those all in sequence.
Unfortunately, we have no independent proof that either the patio door or the child safety gate were actually closed or that the children's bedroom window was found open because all three were disturbed before any independent witnesses arrived on the scene.
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Unfortunately, we have no independent proof that either the patio door or the child safety gate were actually closed or that the children's bedroom window was found open because all three were disturbed before any independent witnesses arrived on the scene.
She has to go through the gates to get there to find Madeleine missing so there is no way anyone can possibly verify what happened before Kate went there, without basically making themselves the next accused abductor.
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She has to go through the gates to get there to find Madeleine missing so there is no way anyone can possibly verify what happened before Kate went there, without basically making themselves the next accused abductor.
However Kate found the gates they were left that way by Matthew.
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However Kate found the gates they were left that way by Matthew.
I often agree with you but this time I don't. She might assume Matt was last through the gate but that is an argument from ignorance. For if she found the gates wide open would that mean Matt also left them wide open?
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I often agree with you but this time I don't. She might assume Matt was last through the gate but that is an argument from ignorance. For if she found the gates wide open would that mean Matt also left them wide open?
Was Matthew able to state categorically that both gates were closed when he checked? If not, the child could have left before he arrived.
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What I am saying is that most tennis coaches, including the Mark Warner coaches, use tennis balls appropriate to the age group of the players. As Madeleine is clutching adult tennis balls it seems unlikely that they had been used by the Minis. I suppose they could have been left lying around the court by previous players.
Jane Tanner says she was there, but she thought it was Wednesday. She denies taking any photos of the children and doesn't mention Kate rushing off to get her camera. Jane also thinks she played tennis with Rachael for an hour every morning though, which Rachael denies......
Russell says it was Wednesday too, when talking about the man taking photo's of his child having a mini tennis lesson on the Thursday he says - I recall that Madeleine and Ella had had a similar lesson the day before.
The confusion arises as there were other groups having mini tennis lessons.
The fact is that Madeleine had a mini tennis lesson, the instructor said she did and group members said she did, to say that Kate put a photo of Madeleine out for all to see, that was taken at a different time in a different place is I am sorry ridiculous. Someone would have come forward and said, no that didn't happen Madeleine wasn't asked to collect adult tennis balls, but no one has.
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I don't think the photo is a fake, but I also don't think it was taken in Luz. My reasons are that the balls are adult balls which children wouldn't have been using, and I don't think a tennis coach would allow sandals to be worn. I'm also surprised at the speed with which the photo was shared with friends.
So what?
We were told it was taken in Luz.
Though not specifically by the main players. IMO
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Russell says it was Wednesday too, when talking about the man taking photo's of his child having a mini tennis lesson on the Thursday he says - I recall that Madeleine and Ella had had a similar lesson the day before.
The confusion arises as there were other groups having mini tennis lessons.
The fact is that Madeleine had a mini tennis lesson, the instructor said she did and group members said she did, to say that Kate put a photo of Madeleine out for all to see, that was taken at a different time in a different place is I am sorry ridiculous. Someone would have come forward and said, no that didn't happen Madeleine wasn't asked to collect adult tennis balls, but no one has.
Yes, Jane completely forgot that rain stopped play on Wednesday, didn't she? No mention of rain at all, in fact. No mention of Kate rushing off to get her camera either.
For people to 'come forward' these things needed to be in place.
1. They had to be present.
2. They had to be involved or watching closely.
3. They had to see a news item claiming that the photo was taken in Luz during Mini Tennis.
If such a news item exists I can't find it.
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Yes, Jane completely forgot that rain stopped play on Wednesday, didn't she? No mention of rain at all, in fact. No mention of Kate rushing off to get her camera either.
For people to 'come forward' these things needed to be in place.
1. They had to be present.
2. They had to be involved or watching closely.
3. They had to see a news item claiming that the photo was taken in Luz during Mini Tennis.
If such a news item exists I can't find it.
I don't know you are blowing the tennis photo up in a complicated way. Someone said it was because Kate wanted people to know Madeleine was alive and well on the Wednesday, well as the instructor, Rachael, Jane, Russell and the Nanny saw Madeleine play mini tennis, then yes she was!! So why on earth would Kate make up a story?
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I cannot believe all this fuss about the provenance of the Madeleine Tennis photo
Everything pioints to it being correct and there is no reason why it should be passed off as incorrect.
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I cannot believe all this fuss about the provenance of the Madeleine Tennis photo
Everything pioints to it being correct and there is no reason why it should be passed off as incorrect.
That is why we have debate Sadie, to hopefully clear up any misunderstandings.
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YUP.
And Kate doesn't say she took the picture on that day- that day they all get confused about.
Aw, come on
As if anyone is going to remember with any accuracy the day that a friend took photos of Madeleine (who wasn't THEIR daughter!).
That thought is stretching credibility beyond reason IMO
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I don't know you are blowing the tennis photo up in a complicated way. Someone said it was because Kate wanted people to know Madeleine was alive and well on the Wednesday, well as the instructor, Rachael, Jane, Russell and the Nanny saw Madeleine play mini tennis, then yes she was!! So why on earth would Kate make up a story?
Some people might think these parents showed no interest in their children on this holiday. Two holiday snaps for the family album isn't much, is it? Without the tennis photo it's down to one photo showing just three of the family of five.
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Aw, come on
As if anyone is going to remember with any accuracy the day that a friend took photos of Madeleine (who wasn't THEIR daughter!).
That thought is stretching credibility beyond reason IMO
It's almost as daft as expecting a tennis coach, a nanny or passing stranger to remember what happened, isn't it?
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Some people might think these parents showed no interest in their children on this holiday. Two holiday snaps for the family album isn't much, is it? Without the tennis photo it's down to one photo showing just three of the family of five.
Oh, so Kate made up a story about Madeleine collecting the tennis balls, just to have an extra photo of Madeleine, the mind boggles.
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Jane Tanner does remember this about the tennis.
“So that was definitely the morning you think (inaudible) left to go to kids club?”
Reply “I think that, as much as I can remember I’m fairly sure that was, and that’s the morning when we had the conversation, which I think is in some of our statements but one of the other parents was there videoing them having a tennis lesson and at that point we were sort of saying it’s so ridiculous that you’re not allowed to, you know, people look at you funny if you’re doing this now, blah, blah, and it was almost like sort of afterwards, you know, we were all going oh yeah it’s ridiculous you have to worry about this sort of thing and you can’t take pictures of your own children, blah, blah, blah.”
( which I think is in some of our statements ) Sounds like Jane is admitting the group discussed each others statements.
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Jane Tanner does remember this about the tennis.
“So that was definitely the morning you think (inaudible) left to go to kids club?”
Reply “I think that, as much as I can remember I’m fairly sure that was, and that’s the morning when we had the conversation, which I think is in some of our statements but one of the other parents was there videoing them having a tennis lesson and at that point we were sort of saying it’s so ridiculous that you’re not allowed to, you know, people look at you funny if you’re doing this now, blah, blah, and it was almost like sort of afterwards, you know, we were all going oh yeah it’s ridiculous you have to worry about this sort of thing and you can’t take pictures of your own children, blah, blah, blah.”
( which I think is in some of our statements ) Sounds like Jane is admitting the group discussed each others statements.
Certainly does .
According to one of the others,Madeleine's tennis lesson was the day before this filming incident.
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Oh, so Kate made up a story about Madeleine collecting the tennis balls, just to have an extra photo of Madeleine, the mind boggles.
Don't underestimate Kate's pride. She found it very hurtful when people suggested that she was a less than perfect mother. Just because she seemed to spend as little time as possible with them on their family holiday! When Madeleine did cross her path she took her photo, didn't she? It's known all round the world now, too!
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Some people might think these parents showed no interest in their children on this holiday. Two holiday snaps for the family album isn't much, is it? Without the tennis photo it's down to one photo showing just three of the family of five.
Really?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HOLIDAY-PHOTOS-LIST.htm
*snipped*
08-OUTROS APENSOS 8 VOLUME 3 Pages 549 - 550 - 553
Visualisation and Analysis of Photographs
On this date, I state that the photographs contained on a CD delivered to this police force by Gerald McCann have been visualised and analysed, some of them are from the holiday period that the McCann family spent at the Ocean Club in PdL, beginning on the 28th April 2007.
The visualisation and analysis of these images that was carried out reveals that there are several photographs of interest to the investigation, in which it is possible to visualise Madeleine McCann.
Portimao, 09 May 2007
Signed by
Inspector Ricardo Paiva
Visualisation and Analysis of Photographs
On this date, I state that the photographs contained on a CD delivered to this police force by Michael Wright, a relation of the McCann couple, relating to the holiday period that the McCann family spent at the Ocean Club in PdL, beginning on the 28th April 2007.
The visualisation and analysis of these images that was carried out reveals that there are several photographs of interest to the investigation, in which it is possible to visualise Madeleine McCann, as well as different adults and children that made up the group of friends who were on holiday together with the McCann couple in PdL, which is why these photographs, joined to the report, were printed.
Portimao, 09 May 2007
Signed by
Inspector Ricardo Paiva
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Don't underestimate Kate's pride. She found it very hurtful when people suggested that she was a less than perfect mother. Just because she seemed to spend as little time as possible with them on their family holiday! When Madeleine did cross her path she took her photo, didn't she? It's known all round the world now, too!
She couldn't hide not going to watch Madeleine sailing for the first time because of other witnesses being present. Her behaviour is hardly focused on her children leaving them again after they apparently were awake crying the previous night. Normal behaviour would be not to leave them but definitely lock the doors incase they wake up again and get out. No that didn't happen - they claim they left the patio door unlocked - WTF! That doesn't make sense. It's like a ridiculous played bad b-movie plot.
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Really?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HOLIDAY-PHOTOS-LIST.htm
*snipped*
08-OUTROS APENSOS 8 VOLUME 3 Pages 549 - 550 - 553
Visualisation and Analysis of Photographs
On this date, I state that the photographs contained on a CD delivered to this police force by Gerald McCann have been visualised and analysed, some of them are from the holiday period that the McCann family spent at the Ocean Club in PdL, beginning on the 28th April 2007.
The visualisation and analysis of these images that was carried out reveals that there are several photographs of interest to the investigation, in which it is possible to visualise Madeleine McCann.
Portimao, 09 May 2007
Signed by
Inspector Ricardo Paiva
Visualisation and Analysis of Photographs
On this date, I state that the photographs contained on a CD delivered to this police force by Michael Wright, a relation of the McCann couple, relating to the holiday period that the McCann family spent at the Ocean Club in PdL, beginning on the 28th April 2007.
The visualisation and analysis of these images that was carried out reveals that there are several photographs of interest to the investigation, in which it is possible to visualise Madeleine McCann, as well as different adults and children that made up the group of friends who were on holiday together with the McCann couple in PdL, which is why these photographs, joined to the report, were printed.
Portimao, 09 May 2007
Signed by
Inspector Ricardo Paiva
So, there are several photographs in which Madeleine as well as different adults and children that made up the group of friends who were on holiday together with the McCann couple in PdL. Doesn’t sound a lot to me?
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So, there are several photographs in which Madeleine as well as different adults and children that made up the group of friends who were on holiday together with the McCann couple in PdL. Doesn’t sound a lot to me?
Have you even looked at the link?
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Have you even looked at the link?
Yes.
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Have you even looked at the link?
I have. Were all the group's photos put onto two CD's delivered to the police by Gerry McCann and Michael Wright? That's how I understand it.
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I have. Were all the group's photos put onto two CD's delivered to the police by Gerry McCann and Michael Wright? That's how I understand it.
If they were, we should be able to see the 'last' poolside picture and also the tennis ball one.
Didn't notice them myself. Did I miss them?
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If they were, we should be able to see the 'last' poolside picture and also the tennis ball one.
Didn't notice them myself. Did I miss them?
Did you look very,very closely Jassi ? 8**8:/:
I missed them also. 8)><(
I often mentioned that the photo of Maddie with the short blonde hair and the eye defect was used instead of the most recent-last picture taken on holiday with longhair and 'normal eyes' wasn't used. She would have been more recognisable that the bob hair one!
(In my opinion) the age progression were hardly used at all and still we never see them in print.. So who is still looking for a 3 year old?
***************************************************************************************
Thank you for the edit instead of the usual post swiping Brietta.
Could this be a move forward... showing the editing and leaving note.
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If they were, we should be able to see the 'last' poolside picture and also the tennis ball one.
Didn't notice them myself. Did I miss them?
I know, funny that. Why would they not include those two?
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I know, funny that. Why would they not include those two?
What is really interesting is why does it appear important to supporters? If they wanted to use a recent picture, so what?
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So, there are several photographs in which Madeleine as well as different adults and children that made up the group of friends who were on holiday together with the McCann couple in PdL. Doesn’t sound a lot to me?
Why should there be a LOT of photos, as YOU call i? There are quite a number, more photos than we ever took on holiday with our kids
And remember that the Mccanns were not one holiday a year people like most of us. I would suggest that the more holidays you take, the fewer photos per holiday. Well that is what happened to us. New experiences and new special places were recorded, but we were not snapping our children ALL the time.
From what we, personally, have seen the Mccanns have a VERY COMPREHENSIVE portfolio of photos and videos of Madeleine.
And I would like to bet that we haven't seen the photos that were not complimentary to her or were dud in some way
Seems to me that you have made an unreasonable comment there Slarti. Just to get at The Mccanns?
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Why should there be a LOT of photos, as YOU call i? There are quite a number, more photos than we ever took on holiday with our kids
And remember that the Mccanns were not one holiday a year people like most of us. I would suggest that the more holidays you take, the fewer photos per holiday. Well that is what happened to us. New experiences and new special places were recorded, but we were not snapping our children ALL the time.
From what we, personally, have seen the Mccanns have a VERY COMPREHENSIVE portfolio of photos and videos of Madeleine.
And I would like to bet that we haven't seen the photos that were not complimentary to her or were dud in some way
Seems to me that you have made an unreasonable comment there Slarti. Just to get at The Mccanns?
The fact remains that the two photos which Kate claimed to have taken that week don't appear to be in the files.
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Why should there be a LOT of photos, as YOU call i? There are quite a number, more photos than we ever took on holiday with our kids
And remember that the Mccanns were not one holiday a year people like most of us. I would suggest that the more holidays you take, the fewer photos per holiday. Well that is what happened to us. New experiences and new special places were recorded, but we were not snapping our children ALL the time.
From what we, personally, have seen the Mccanns have a VERY COMPREHENSIVE portfolio of photos and videos of Madeleine.
And I would like to bet that we haven't seen the photos that were not complimentary to her or were dud in some way
Seems to me that you have made an unreasonable comment there Slarti. Just to get at The Mccanns?
In Red... astounding that a family would withhold pictures of their child if they looked ugly in them?
But back to the pictures. The two mentioned are nice pictures of Maddie I would say she was a very photogenic child.
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So Gerry returns home on the 21st May 2007, to do this.
"Gerry wants to go through all the photographs and pick some to put on the website. The more images there are, the more she will be in people's minds."
Four days later the last photo of Maddie by the Pool was published.
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Why should there be a LOT of photos, as YOU call i? There are quite a number, more photos than we ever took on holiday with our kids
And remember that the Mccanns were not one holiday a year people like most of us. I would suggest that the more holidays you take, the fewer photos per holiday. Well that is what happened to us. New experiences and new special places were recorded, but we were not snapping our children ALL the time.
From what we, personally, have seen the Mccanns have a VERY COMPREHENSIVE portfolio of photos and videos of Madeleine.
And I would like to bet that we haven't seen the photos that were not complimentary to her or were dud in some way
Seems to me that you have made an unreasonable comment there Slarti. Just to get at The Mccanns?
I was paraphrasing Misty’s post. Not many of the photos in the link were Madeleine.
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Can't understand why these two photos are missing. No reason why the PJ would withhold them seeing as they had been widely publicised.
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Can't understand why these two photos are missing. No reason why the PJ would withhold them seeing as they had been widely publicised.
The logical assumption would be that either they have not released them of they never had them.
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The logical assumption would be that either they have not released them of they never had them.
As the McCanns released these pictures all over the internet, there was no reason for PJ to withhold them so I'll go with option 2
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As the McCanns released these pictures all over the internet, there was no reason for PJ to withhold them so I'll go with option 2
Yes, I would agree,
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Jane Tanner does remember this about the tennis.
“So that was definitely the morning you think (inaudible) left to go to kids club?”
Reply “I think that, as much as I can remember I’m fairly sure that was, and that’s the morning when we had the conversation, which I think is in some of our statements but one of the other parents was there videoing them having a tennis lesson and at that point we were sort of saying it’s so ridiculous that you’re not allowed to, you know, people look at you funny if you’re doing this now, blah, blah, and it was almost like sort of afterwards, you know, we were all going oh yeah it’s ridiculous you have to worry about this sort of thing and you can’t take pictures of your own children, blah, blah, blah.”
( which I think is in some of our statements ) Sounds like Jane is admitting the group discussed each others statements.
Don't you think it strange that none of the Tapas have ever 'broken rank' talked about what happened and even seemed to cringe when giving witness statements. all that umming and erring and 'you know'.
I find that VERY Strange indeed.
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As the McCanns released these pictures all over the internet, there was no reason for PJ to withhold them so I'll go with option 2
Yeah option 2...
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Yeah option 2...
IYO
Seems you are allowed to speculate!
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Yes, I would agree,
Amaral sought and received permission to release one photograph ... how many other photographs of Madeleine did the PJ release?
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Nothing to do with Amaral. These are photos released in the files.
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Did you look very,very closely Jassi ? 8**8:/:
I missed them also. 8)><(
I often mentioned that the photo of Maddie with the short blonde hair and the eye defect was used instead of the most recent-last picture taken on holiday with longhair and 'normal eyes' wasn't used. She would have been more recognisable that the bob hair one!
(In my opinion) the age progression were hardly used at all and still we never see them in print.. So who is still looking for a 3 year old?
***************************************************************************************
Thank you for the edit instead of the usual post swiping Brietta.
Could this be a move forward... showing the editing and leaving note.
The eye defect was unique. somethink to absolutely identify Madeleine by and that is why that photo was used. Did you not realise this?
The age progression images were an artists (sometimes scientifically assisted) impressions of what she would look like. They were so different that it makes one wonder which actually resembled Madeleine at the date they were produced.
Now that she is adolescent her face changes will be profound and the age progression pictures will have little bearing on what she looks like now.
The basic bone structure will remain altho it will have age related modifications.
The best way IMO to recognise Madeleine now will be by her mannerisms, movement, posture and general bone structure and flesh distribution ... Oh and her eyes and enthusiasm.
Even if hidden by artificail lenses, her eyes underneath will have the same defect .... or evidence of an operation to repair them
AIMHO
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Nothing to do with Amaral. These are photos released in the files.
So ?
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Nothing to do with Amaral. These are photos released in the files.
Amaral received authorisation to release a photograph to assist the investigation ... the McCanns released photographs to assist the investigation ... you are discussing with others why the PJ did not release the photograph referred to in the thread + one other.
Therefore a perfectly legitimate question as part of the discussion in my opinion, as to what other photographs of Madeleine the PJ released.
As far as I know ... none.
You and others appear to find it extraordinary that the PJ did not release two photographs which would perhaps be the case had they habitually released photographs. If they were in the habit of taking that initiative, OK ... if they were not, why question the fact they didn't?
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Amaral received authorisation to release a photograph to assist the investigation ... the McCanns released photographs to assist the investigation ... you are discussing with others why the PJ did not release the photograph referred to in the thread + one other.
Therefore a perfectly legitimate question as part of the discussion in my opinion, as to what other photographs of Madeleine the PJ released.
As far as I know ... none.
You and others appear to find it extraordinary that the PJ did not release two photographs which would perhaps be the case had they habitually released photographs. If they were in the habit of taking that initiative, OK ... if they were not, why question the fact they didn't?
As far as I am aware we are discussing the photos in the files not publicity releases for the PJ?
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As far as I am aware we are discussing the photos in the files not publicity releases for the PJ?
So the members aren't discussing why the PJ didn't release the photographs? Well there you are, then.
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Don't you think it strange that none of the Tapas have ever 'broken rank' talked about what happened and even seemed to cringe when giving witness statements. all that umming and erring and 'you know'.
I find that VERY Strange indeed.
I have encountered many police statements over the years and I must admit I've never seen so much umming and erring ever before. The poor transcribers must have had an awful task understanding that gibberish.
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So the members aren't discussing why the PJ didn't release the photographs? Well there you are, then.
With the files, yes. Independently, no.
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I have encountered many police statements over the years and I must admit I've never seen so much umming and erring ever before. The poor transcribers must have had an awful task understanding that gibberish.
Most police statements are written by police officers and the witness is asked to sign it...these contain no umms and errs. The rogs are transcriptions of the audiotapes of interviews and would normally contain such umms and errs.
Which do you think is most accurate....the non verbatim paraphrased statements taken by teh PJ or the audio recordings.
onceagain we see something that is totally totally innoccuous raising suspicion...all imo of course
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I have encountered many police statements over the years and I must admit I've never seen so much umming and erring ever before. The poor transcribers must have had an awful task understanding that gibberish.
You'd be surprised if we actually had someone writing down exactly what we said there would be a lot of umming and erring. Listen to Prince Charles!!
Another point is that they were recalling a traumatic experience, maybe the umming and erring was to compose themselves, they were not devoid of emotions were they?
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So far then the reason why the tennis ball photo was taken somewhere else at a different time, is because the McCann's decided they needed an extra photo of Madeleine because people were saying they didn't care about their children and didn't take enough photo's.
I have never heard anything so ridiculous in my life!! They just happened to have spare photo of Madeleine with a pile of tennis balls in her hands, to use as an extra photo.
Believe what the coach, nanny and other witnesses say, the mini tennis game happened, there is nothing to doubt that the tennis ball photo is not real.
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I have encountered many police statements over the years and I must admit I've never seen so much umming and erring ever before. The poor transcribers must have had an awful task understanding that gibberish.
What you call gibberish is actually not uncommon in the spoken word. If you make a point of listening out for it you will hear similar umming and erring every day of the week in conversations between people. Some people do it more than others but very few people never do it. I remember a time when some folk apparently couldn't converse without starting every single sentence with the word 'basically' - (Grrrrr) thankfully that seems to have died down now. It's only because we are not used to seeing umming and erring etc etc written down that it stands out IMO.
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What you call gibberish is actually not uncommon in the spoken word. If you make a point of listening out for it you will hear similar umming and erring every day of the week in conversations between people. Some people do it more than others but very few people never do it. I remember a time when some folk apparently couldn't converse without starting every single sentence with the word 'basically' - (Grrrrr) thankfully that seems to have died down now. It's only because we are not used to seeing umming and erring etc etc written down that it stands out IMO.
Has'nt anyone been to Cornwall?
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Umms and errs quite normal ...imo
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTpwK5p6YXk
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To sum up;
7th May; Tennis photo used in an email appeal by Pat Perkins.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAT_PERKINS.htm
8th May (?); CD's delivered to the PJ by Gerry McCann and Michael Weight. They appear to contain the photos taken by the group during the holiday. They don't appear to contain the two photos taken by Kate McCann (tennis and pool)
10th May;
Asked, he clarifies that, with regard to the personal photos already delivered by him to the authorities after the disappearance of his daughter MADELEINE, he has no others in his power [possession].
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm
25th May;
The last picture of Madeleine: Just eight hours later she was gone
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-457414/The-picture-Madeleine-Just-hours-later-gone.html#ixzz4xBaMcbrT
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So far then the reason why the tennis ball photo was taken somewhere else at a different time, is because the McCann's decided they needed an extra photo of Madeleine because people were saying they didn't care about their children and didn't take enough photo's.
I have never heard anything so ridiculous in my life!! They just happened to have spare photo of Madeleine with a pile of tennis balls in her hands, to use as an extra photo.
Believe what the coach, nanny and other witnesses say, the mini tennis game happened, there is nothing to doubt that the tennis ball photo is not real.
I don’t think anyone has suggested that.
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This photo could have been put to bed Ten Years ago. There is a black mark just beside her, this looks like something has scraped off the surface of the court. Over the years in many photos it looks like it's been photo shopped, but not very well.
Could it still be there?
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It looks like the photo was taken above in the play area i.e. the angle down to Madeleine.
(http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article2433519.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/Maddie-McCann.jpg)
(https://shininginluz.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/tennis-balls-large.jpg)
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/04_03/maddyPA0605_468x599.jpg)
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I watched this video a few days ago which I think some of you would be Interested.
https://youtu.be/jijmIT1BoYM
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Mini Tennis.
Looks like normal tennis.
Mini Tennis sort of suggests child-friendly balls, wee nets, light rackets.
A tennis court is no place for a 3 /4 year old when the adults are wanging the ball around.
(Exhuming old threads keeps this place from withering on the vine and I know you all love it)
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Mini Tennis.
Looks like normal tennis.
Mini Tennis sort of suggests child-friendly balls, wee nets, light rackets.
A tennis court is no place for a 3 /4 year old when the adults are wanging the ball around.
(Exhuming old threads keeps this place from withering on the vine and I know you all love it)
You might be on to something here. I have a new theory. Madeleine killed on the court that Gerry and DP were playing on that evening, struck on the head by a 120mph ace from Gerry. They hurriedly dump her body in the shopping trolley of tennis balls and wheel it back to the apartment. Amazingly no one notices. I think this is what happened. Now we have to try and suss out if it was deliberate or an accident.
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You might be on to something here. I have a new theory. Madeleine killed on the court that Gerry and DP were playing on that evening, struck on the head by a 120mph ace from Gerry. They hurriedly dump her body in the shopping trolley of tennis balls and wheel it back to the apartment. Amazingly no one notices. I think this is what happened. Now we have to try and suss out if it was deliberate or an accident.
There's a flaw right off the bat / racquet - Gerry, being 5ft 5 and 7st 4oz couldn't knock the skin off his cold tea.
Try again, Alfarillo.
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There's a flaw right off the bat / racquet - Gerry, being 5ft 5 and 7st 4oz couldn't knock the skin off his cold tea.
Try again, Alfarillo.
I think you may be mistaken about Gerry's vital stats. Just ask Martin Smith.
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I think you may be mistaken about Gerry's vital stats. Just ask Martin Smith.
So you're a Smithman advocate and a tennis baller? You're more septic than sceptic.
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So you're a Smithman advocate and a tennis baller? You're more septic than sceptic.
In order to be a true sceptic, nothing that possibly points to the McCanns dunnit theory should be taken off the table. All theories are equally valid even if they contradict each other horribly, and fellow sceptics must not point any contradiction out. It is important to maintain scepticism no matter how illogical it may seem to those not in the know or without superior intellects like wot we've got.
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In order to be a true sceptic, nothing that possibly points to the McCanns dunnit theory should be taken off the table. All theories are equally valid even if they contradict each other horribly, and fellow sceptics must not point any contradiction out. It is important to maintain scepticism no matter how illogical it may seem to those not in the know or without superior intellects like wot we've got.
Fair enough. I think.
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OK, thanks for your input to the exhumed thread, guys, much appreciated.
With your help and after sifting through the available evidnce and various analyses conducted, I have a conclusion.
In answer to the pointlessly expansive thread title - the photo is real. It's been cropped, but the photo is a genuine, unsullied photo of MM.
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OK, thanks for your input to the exhumed thread, guys, much appreciated.
With your help and after sifting through the available evidnce and various analyses conducted, I have a conclusion.
In answer to the pointlessly expansive thread title - the photo is real. It's been cropped, but the photo is a genuine, unsullied photo of MM.
Of course it's real. WTF do you think any of us would be interested in debating this idiotic notion AGAIN?? You must try harder - bump a more contentious thread. Try and find something where I said something really dumb that has come back to bite me big time, really try to make me look a complete fool. Shouldn't be difficult!
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Of course it's real. WTF do you think any of us would be interested in debating this idiotic notion AGAIN?? You must try harder - bump a more contentious thread. Try and find something where I said something really dumb that has come back to bite me big time, really try to make me look a complete fool. Shouldn't be difficult!
Nah, it's clearly a fake.
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Nah, it's clearly a fake.
OK, what's made you do a complete 180 in a little over an hour? Please expound your reasoning below.
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OK, what's made you do a complete 180 in a little over an hour? Please expound your reasoning below.
Just kiddin'. It's kosher.
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Just kiddin'. It's kosher.
Or is it…? *%6^
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Or is it…? *%6^
[Thruth is, I don't know and I don't care].
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The opening post on this thread is a perfect example of how you can turn something innocent and innocuous, them pick petty little holes in it until it becomes a massive full blown conspiracy. This is what has happened to virtually every piece of information available in this case - it’s been pored over, examined to within an inch of its life and if it could help in any way to twist it into becoming part of a conspiracy cover-up then it has been. Thanks for bumping the thread and reminding us how daft some people can be.
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The opening post on this thread is a perfect example of how you can turn something innocent and innocuous, them pick petty little holes in it until it becomes a massive full blown conspiracy. This is what has happened to virtually every piece of information available in this case - it’s been pored over, examined to within an inch of its life and if it could help in any way to twist it into becoming part of a conspiracy cover-up then it has been. Thanks for bumping the thread and reminding us how daft some people can be.
No problem.
The photo is not without intrigue, though.
But let's put the thread back on the shelf.
Goodnight tennis balls photograph. Goodnight.
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No problem.
The photo is not without intrigue, though.
But let's put the thread back on the shelf.
Goodnight tennis balls photograph. Goodnight.
Can we have the “Gerry swearing on the bus” one next please.
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Can we have the “Gerry swearing on the bus” one next please.
Yes, no problem.
This is probably the single-most ridiculous claim associated with this whole saga.
I think if anyone stuck a video camera in my face and asked me to 'smile', 'cheer up', or 'are you having fun' on a holiday bus transfer with a gaggle of kids, having travelled half the day, I'd probably resort to assault.
Or 'how about I come over there and ram that fckin camera up your arse, David, you creepy tit?'.
Something like that.
So I can sympathise.
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I think I made a big mistake, so have deleted this post. I hadn't realised that the kiddies pool area and play area was raised from the tennis couts and by quite a few feet. And that is what threw me
My sincere apologies to Pathfinder. I now think that you were right.
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Nah, the well known photos are real, but the top photo provided by pathfinder is not of the tennis courts of The Ocean Club.
It's a bit of a chore, and quite difficult, but check it out on Google Earth. Of course with all the disinformation and changing of FACTS including Google Earth, that might not be possible in a few days. Yes, I have noticed at least 3 disinformation alterations to do with this case on Google Earth.
This case is mega.
Much bigger than most of you suspect and BIG brains hiding facts, by altering stuff to what they want believed. Probably genius level of Red Herrings and quite an artist at work too. No wonder so many people have been misguided.
I wonder why pathfinder posted an incorrect photo
It's a correct photo of the OC tennis courts, looking north towards OC apartments in the background.
The two tall palm trees with thick trunks on the left, are the same ones casting long shadows in this bird's eye view on Google maps...
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.0880557,-8.7314507,64m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDExNC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.0880557,-8.7314507,64m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDExNC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D)
And are also the same ones seen from the main road west of the tennis courts in this street view. The tennis court overshoot netting is just visible on the right...
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.0879697,-8.7316176,3a,90y,33.83h,96.64t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sQozvcGwutE6yMRix611CUg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-6.642975012595869%26panoid%3DQozvcGwutE6yMRix611CUg%26yaw%3D33.834751424746486!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDExNC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.0879697,-8.7316176,3a,90y,33.83h,96.64t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sQozvcGwutE6yMRix611CUg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-6.642975012595869%26panoid%3DQozvcGwutE6yMRix611CUg%26yaw%3D33.834751424746486!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDExNC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D)
So no need to fret about any pathfinder shenanigans!
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Even clearer in 3D...
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.0874731,-8.7314507,78a,35y,39.56t/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDExNC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.0874731,-8.7314507,78a,35y,39.56t/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDExNC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D)
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Nah, the well known photos are real, but the top photo provided by pathfinder is not of the tennis courts of The Ocean Club.
It's a bit of a chore, and quite difficult, but check it out on Google Earth. Of course with all the disinformation and changing of FACTS including Google Earth, that might not be possible in a few days. Yes, I have noticed at least 3 disinformation alterations to do with this case on Google Earth.
This case is mega.
Much bigger than most of you suspect and BIG brains hiding facts, by altering stuff to what they want believed. Probably genius level of Red Herrings and quite an artist at work too. No wonder so many people have been misguided.
I wonder why pathfinder posted an incorrect photo
As you know Sadie I have holidayed in PDL too, several times before and after Madeleine’s abduction, and pathfinder’s photo is absolutely the tennis court at the OC.
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As you know Sadie I have holidayed in PDL too, several times before and after Madeleine’s abduction, and pathfinder’s photo is absolutely the tennis court at the OC.
I had just noticed my mistake and deleted my post when I saw Myster and your posts, Faith
Re: IS THIS TENNIS PHOTO REAL ...OR COULD IT BE FAKE...
Reply #282 on: January 17, 2025, 07:23:36 PM »
Quote
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I think I made a big mistake, so have deleted this post. I hadn't realised that the kiddies pool area and play area was raised from the tennis couts and by quite a few feet; see the wall. And that is what threw me
My sincere apologies to Pathfinder. I now think that you were right.
Modify message
« Last Edit: Today at 03:00:31 AM by sadie »
Myster and Faith, thank you both for pointing it out