UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: Opal on July 12, 2016, 11:29:25 PM
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I realise nothing was mentioned about NB being tied up in the kitchen, but on looking at the photo of him in the kitchen, it appears that his left wrist has cord around it. I've also noticed that NB's chair ( the one he always used) has a broken arm rest to it. ( seen in a later photo of the kitchen.) This isn't the same side as the cord appears around his wrist, so did he break the arm rest and free his right arm?
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I realise nothing was mentioned about NB being tied up in the kitchen, but on looking at the photo of him in the kitchen, it appears that his left wrist has cord around it. I've also noticed that NB's chair ( the one he always used) has a broken arm rest to it. ( seen in a later photo of the kitchen.) This isn't the same side as the cord appears around his wrist, so did he break the arm rest and free his right arm?
I recall this being discussed -and demolished- at length on Blue when it was suggested that Sheila had tied him up. If we apply logic, an uninjured Nevill isn't going to allow himself to be tied up without attacking his assailant who would have needed to put the gun aside in order to do so and he would hardly have sat quietly waiting for that person to find something with which to tie him. Conversely, there'd have been no need to tie up an injured Nevill. As one arm had been rendered useless he couldn't have used it to free the other arm.
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There is no reason why Bamber or Sheila would tie up Neville after he had been killed. And no opportunity or reason to do so before Neville was attacked.
The evidence shows Neville was not tied up -
41. Nevill Bamber, who was wearing his pyjamas had been shot eight times. There were two wounds to the right side and two to the top of the head. If not immediately fatal, the combined effect of these four injuries would have been immediate unconsciousness and incapacitation. There was a wound to the left side of the lip and another to the left part of the lower jaw. This injury caused severe fracturing of the jaw, of the teeth in that area and damaged soft tissue in the neck and the larynx. These features of this particular injury and the resultant flow of blood into the mouth meant, in the pathologist's opinion, that Nevill Bamber would not have been able to engage in purposeful talk. There were also gunshot wounds to the left shoulder and a grazing wound above the left elbow.
42. The examination of Nevill Bamber's body also revealed black eyes and a broken nose, linear bruising to the cheeks, lacerations to the head, linear type bruising to the right forearm, bruising to the left wrist and forearm and three circular burn type marks to the back. The linear marks were consistent with Mr Bamber having been struck with a long blunt object, possibly a gun.
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I have read the post mortem results as well, and I don't think the SC would have even known where to find any cord to tie up NB. I also wondered if NB was tied up before being shot 4 times in the kitchen. If NB was capable of making it downstairs from the bedroom, then he was still mobile at the time. The scene in the kitchen tells us NB was capable of putting up a fight. I also read Ann E statement where she speaks of seeing a 'belt' on the stair rail when looking through WHF with EP before being given the new keys to the property. Could this belt have been used on NB giving the linear marks on his body? JB would have gone prepared for every eventuality to WHF hence the bicycle that was taken from WHF previously.
I am not saying this is 'what' happened, just thinking of how the family were all killed in a short space of time without SC, JB, or NB being able to overcome JB.
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As you know the crime scene evidence shows that Neville was not tied up. No one has suggested this before.
There is no way Bamber would have fiddled around trying to tie up an alive Neville up. He wanted everyone dead asap. And no point Bamber tying up a dead Neville.
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The raid team WS's do not make reference to rope either on NB or in the vicinity. Nor do the first officers at the scene.
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I realise nothing was mentioned about NB being tied up in the kitchen, but on looking at the photo of him in the kitchen, it appears that his left wrist has cord around it. I've also noticed that NB's chair ( the one he always used) has a broken arm rest to it. ( seen in a later photo of the kitchen.) This isn't the same side as the cord appears around his wrist, so did he break the arm rest and free his right arm?
I'm not sure of the photo you are referring to but a friend of mine has some sort of clothes dryer/hanging space over the Aga which I think has some sort of cord to pull the thing up and and down. Could this be it? It seems WHF had something similar.
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Three pulleys are screwed into the ceiling timbers and the cord passes over these, then down to a fastener on the wall. Looks like the lower part of the cord (after passing between the 2 and the 0) and wall fastener is hidden by the left-hand side of the Welsh Dresser in this photo...
(http://i.imgur.com/4mCOSWx.jpg?1)
There's a clearer part-view of the opposite end of the dryer in Wilkes' photo section, after page 186.
But as others have said, there's no mention of rope, cord, string, etc. used to subdue Nevill in any of the witness statements, or bruising caused by them in the pathology reports.
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Three pulleys are screwed into the ceiling timbers and the cord passes over these, then down to a fastener on the wall. Looks like the lower part of the cord (after passing between the 2 and the 0) and wall fastener is hidden by the left-hand side of the Welsh Dresser in this photo...
(http://i.imgur.com/4mCOSWx.jpg?1)
There's a clearer part-view of the opposite end of the dryer in Wilkes' photo section, after page 186.
But as others have said, there's no mention of rope, cord, string, etc. used to subdue Nevill in any of the witness statements, or bruising caused by them in the pathology reports.
I think they were called pulleymaids. My Nan had one, which was why my vests always smelt of gravy. 8(8-))
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I realise nothing was mentioned about NB being tied up in the kitchen, but on looking at the photo of him in the kitchen, it appears that his left wrist has cord around it. I've also noticed that NB's chair ( the one he always used) has a broken arm rest to it. ( seen in a later photo of the kitchen.) This isn't the same side as the cord appears around his wrist, so did he break the arm rest and free his right arm?
There was no cord around his wrist Opal.
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I think they were called pulleymaids. My Nan had one, which was why my vests always smelt of gravy. 8(8-))
That's correct... in the past my family had them in older houses with high ceilings and I still use one in the garage occasionally, with the doors open and wind blowing through. Modern kitchen ceilings are too low to pull the hanging clothes high enough to stop them from getting in the way though.
http://www.pulleymaid.com/ (http://www.pulleymaid.com/)
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I'm not sure of the photo you are referring to but a friend of mine has some sort of clothes dryer/hanging space over the Aga which I think has some sort of cord to pull the thing up and and down. Could this be it? It seems WHF had something similar.
Thanks for your replies. 8()-000( I see what you are meaning regarding the pulley. I also agree that no mention is made of any cord or binding used. My only interest in this was because the photo of Nevill lying on the floor on his stomach, not by the coal scuttle! ( Holly, this photo was posted by you somewhere on here ) shows something that looks like cord around his left wrist. I then read Ann Eaton's statement of 8 - 13 September 1985 ( number 43 ) where she states:
"I also noticed on the banister rail between the main bedroom used by June and Nevill Bamber and the room apparently used by Sheila, a thin belt hanging from the rail. It was quite long and loose triangular objects on each end. I have no knowledge about this belt and why it was draped over the rail".
I then wondered if I'd missed anything whilst reading EP etc statements..... hence my post, as you are all more informed than me.
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Thanks for your replies. 8()-000( I see what you are meaning regarding the pulley. I also agree that no mention is made of any cord or binding used. My only interest in this was because the photo of Nevill lying on the floor on his stomach, not by the coal scuttle! ( Holly, this photo was posted by you somewhere on here ) shows something that looks like cord around his left wrist. I then read Ann Eaton's statement of 8 - 13 September 1985 ( number 43 ) where she states:
"I also noticed on the banister rail between the main bedroom used by June and Nevill Bamber and the room apparently used by Sheila, a thin belt hanging from the rail. It was quite long and loose triangular objects on each end. I have no knowledge about this belt and why it was draped over the rail".
I then wondered if I'd missed anything whilst reading EP etc statements..... hence my post, as you are all more informed than me.
The "thin belt hanging from the rail" was a pair of footless tights, probably belonging to Sheila. No big deal, just hung there to dry. It had a waistband that might have looked like a belt.
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The "thin belt hanging from the rail" was a pair of footless tights, probably belonging to Sheila. No big deal, just hung there to dry. It had a waistband that might have looked like a belt.
You really do have to question how Sheila managed to wreak such havoc, without a single spot of blood from anyone else, no bruises, and then shot herself twice without ingesting or spluttering out any of her own blood.
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Thanks for your replies. 8()-000( I see what you are meaning regarding the pulley. I also agree that no mention is made of any cord or binding used. My only interest in this was because the photo of Nevill lying on the floor on his stomach, not by the coal scuttle! ( Holly, this photo was posted by you somewhere on here ) shows something that looks like cord around his left wrist. I then read Ann Eaton's statement of 8 - 13 September 1985 ( number 43 ) where she states:
"I also noticed on the banister rail between the main bedroom used by June and Nevill Bamber and the room apparently used by Sheila, a thin belt hanging from the rail. It was quite long and loose triangular objects on each end. I have no knowledge about this belt and why it was draped over the rail".
I then wondered if I'd missed anything whilst reading EP etc statements..... hence my post, as you are all more informed than me.
Can't remember Holly posting any photo like that here? If this is the one you mean then it definitely isn't Nevill, but probably originated from blue years ago and has since done the rounds on the net.
I see now where you got a cord around the wrist idea...
https://krazykillers.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/farm0011.jpg (https://krazykillers.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/farm0011.jpg)
https://krazykillers.wordpress.com/page/27/ (https://krazykillers.wordpress.com/page/27/)
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Can't remember Holly posting any photo like that here? If this is the one you mean then it definitely isn't Nevill, but probably originated from blue years ago and has since done the rounds on the net.
I see now where you got a cord around the wrist idea...
https://krazykillers.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/farm0011.jpg (https://krazykillers.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/farm0011.jpg)
https://krazykillers.wordpress.com/page/27/ (https://krazykillers.wordpress.com/page/27/)
Oh I see, I remember that picture being posted, it was oringinally posted by Mike and is defo NOT Nevill.
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Oh I see, I remember that picture being posted, it was oringinally posted by Mike and is defo NOT Nevill.
I don't think he -Nevill, that is- was into pink flowered knickers.
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I don't think he -Nevill, that is- was into pink flowered knickers.
Or countless numbers of scrumdiddlybloodyumptious meat pies.
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Or countless numbers of scrumdiddlybloodyumptious meat pies.
8((()*/ 8)--)) @)(++(*
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Oh Brilliant!! I'm so pleased I can now forget all about the Bl%"dy cord!! Thanks Myster. 8@??)(
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I don't think he -Nevill, that is- was into pink flowered knickers.
They look like surf shorts but def not NB.
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Thanks for your replies. 8()-000( I see what you are meaning regarding the pulley. I also agree that no mention is made of any cord or binding used. My only interest in this was because the photo of Nevill lying on the floor on his stomach, not by the coal scuttle! ( Holly, this photo was posted by you somewhere on here ) shows something that looks like cord around his left wrist. I then read Ann Eaton's statement of 8 - 13 September 1985 ( number 43 ) where she states:
"I also noticed on the banister rail between the main bedroom used by June and Nevill Bamber and the room apparently used by Sheila, a thin belt hanging from the rail. It was quite long and loose triangular objects on each end. I have no knowledge about this belt and why it was draped over the rail".
I then wondered if I'd missed anything whilst reading EP etc statements..... hence my post, as you are all more informed than me.
I've definitely never posted the photo of the man on floor wearing surf shorts ? and blue top with cord ? tied round his wrists. I think this photo is all part of Mike's madness.
I've only seen two photos of NB in kitchen: one where he is silhouetted out and the other is a grainy black and white. Can't recall if I've ever posted them or not.
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They look like surf shorts but def not NB.
Yeah... so probably the victim of a shark attack. That's another murder solved. 8((()*/
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Yeah... so probably the victim of a shark attack. That's another murder solved. 8((()*/
Lol @)(++(*
I'm sure Mike will still manage a conspiracy involving South Yorkshire police 8(8-))
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You really do have to question how Sheila managed to wreak such havoc, without a single spot of blood from anyone else, no bruises, and then shot herself twice without ingesting or spluttering out any of her own blood.
If the small calibre firearm and low velocity hollow point bullets were capable of producing any back spatter I think it would present as a fine mist and might have been overlooked. Also after the victims sustained the first GSW I believe this changes their physiology eg blood pressure reducing the potential for back spatter. Very little blood on rifle - insufficient for grouping.
I don't believe there was any hand to hand fighting hence no bruising.
I'm not sure about ingesting and spluttering blood. Wouldn't the potential for this be the same whether murder or suicide?
This reminds me....where's Scipio?
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Lol @)(++(*
I'm sure Mike will still manage a conspiracy involving South Yorkshire police 8(8-))
Especially now that he's developed 'pisschick powers' of reasoning.
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Especially now that he's developed 'pisschick powers' of reasoning.
ah yes the powers.ive read the threads.one sounds like moses when god chose him. @)(++(*
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Especially now that he's developed 'pisschick powers' of reasoning.
Blimey, is he unspooling again?
Damn you, Lidl whisky. ?8)@)-)
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Blimey, is he unspooling again?
Damn you, Lidl whisky. ?8)@)-)
@)(++(* @)(++(*