UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Brietta on October 04, 2016, 12:35:04 PM
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Of course, it's not the first time this issue has come up...
...http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1914777/Kate-and-Gerry-McCann-hit-out-at-ghoulish-Madeleine-tours-in-Portugal.html
It seems Mrs Fenn wasn't too impressed by the ghouls, nor the staff at the OC. Of course these were seemingly larger organised tours of Portuguese rubberneckers, not small posses of diligent and learned researchers with important blogs to update for the benefit of all mankind.... @)(++(*
"Gerry McCann did come up to apologise to my mother for all the unwanted attention – which was incredibly kind as he has endured a grief and pain that no parent should ever have to withstand.” Ian Fenn
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/8469932/Madeleine-McCann-time-to-forget.html
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Is Mrs Fenn now a good guy or a bad guy?
It is so easy to lose track ?{)(**
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Is Mrs Fenn now a good guy or a bad guy?
It is so easy to lose track ?{)(**
Ian Fenn ... who probably knew so much more of Mrs Fenn's thinking than any internet detective possibly could ... speaks with great sympathy, understanding and kindness of the McCann's suffering.
Work it out from there.
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Is Mrs Fenn now a good guy or a bad guy?
It is so easy to lose track ?{)(**
The late Mrs Fenn was a woman.
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"Gerry McCann did come up to apologise to my mother for all the unwanted attention – which was incredibly kind as he has endured a grief and pain that no parent should ever have to withstand.” Ian Fenn
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/8469932/Madeleine-McCann-time-to-forget.html
I wonder if Mrs Fenn's relatives read Mrs McCann's book?
Then a lady appeared on a balcony – I’m fairly certain this was about 11pm, before the police arrived – and, in a plummy voice, inquired, ‘Can someone tell me what all the noise is about?’ I explained as clearly as I was able, given the state I was in, that my little girl had been stolen from her bed, to which she casually responded, ‘Oh, I see,’ almost as if she’d just been told that a can of beans had fallen off a kitchen shelf. I remember feeling both
shocked and angry at this woefully inadequate and apparently unconcerned reaction. I recollect that in our outrage, Fiona and I shouted back something rather short and to the point. [Madeleine]
Mrs Fenn asked the father, Gerry, what was happening to which he replied that a small girl had been abducted. When asked, she replied that she did not leave her apartment, just spoke to Gerry from her balcony, which had a view over the terrace of the floor below. She found it strange that Gerry when said that a girl had been abducted, he did not mention that it was his daughter and that he did not mention any other scenarios......She also refers to an episode when Gerry was speaking to a policeman and he refused to recognised the police force, saying that more agents of authority were needed to carry out the search.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm
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I wonder if Mrs Fenn's relatives read Mrs McCann's book?
Then a lady appeared on a balcony – I’m fairly certain this was about 11pm, before the police arrived – and, in a plummy voice, inquired, ‘Can someone tell me what all the noise is about?’ I explained as clearly as I was able, given the state I was in, that my little girl had been stolen from her bed, to which she casually responded, ‘Oh, I see,’ almost as if she’d just been told that a can of beans had fallen off a kitchen shelf. I remember feeling both
shocked and angry at this woefully inadequate and apparently unconcerned reaction. I recollect that in our outrage, Fiona and I shouted back something rather short and to the point. [Madeleine]
Mrs Fenn asked the father, Gerry, what was happening to which he replied that a small girl had been abducted. When asked, she replied that she did not leave her apartment, just spoke to Gerry from her balcony, which had a view over the terrace of the floor below. She found it strange that Gerry when said that a girl had been abducted, he did not mention that it was his daughter and that he did not mention any other scenarios......She also refers to an episode when Gerry was speaking to a policeman and he refused to recognised the police force, saying that more agents of authority were needed to carry out the search.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm
I'd be very surprised if they hadn't read the book. And your point is?
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I'd be very surprised if they hadn't read the book. And your point is?
Gerry McCann had apologised to Mrs Fenn for the unwanted attention, said her son in 2011. Shortly after he said that Mrs McCann published her book, in which she criticises his mother. No bridge building from her. Maybe she forgot to read Mrs Fenn's evidence where she says she spoke to Gerry, not Kate that night.
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Gerry McCann had apologised to Mrs Fenn for the unwanted attention, said her son in 2011. Shortly after he said that Mrs McCann published her book, in which she criticises his mother. No bridge building from her. Maybe she forgot to read Mrs Fenn's evidence where she says she spoke to Gerry, not Kate that night.
Maybe she spoke to both of them? Have you thought about that ?
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Gerry McCann had apologised to Mrs Fenn for the unwanted attention, said her son in 2011. Shortly after he said that Mrs McCann published her book, in which she criticises his mother. No bridge building from her. Maybe she forgot to read Mrs Fenn's evidence where she says she spoke to Gerry, not Kate that night.
I'm sure the Fenns were grown up enough to realise that Kate was writing from the point of view of a woman who had just discovered her child was missing, and therefore that any irritation or stress on her part was understandable in the circumstances.
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Gerry McCann had apologised to Mrs Fenn for the unwanted attention, said her son in 2011. Shortly after he said that Mrs McCann published her book, in which she criticises his mother. No bridge building from her. Maybe she forgot to read Mrs Fenn's evidence where she says she spoke to Gerry, not Kate that night.
Can I have a link to where Mrs. Fenn's son said Kate criticised his mother in her book please?
I know Kate mentions someone but not by name.
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Can I have a link to where Mrs. Fenn's son said Kate criticised his mother in her book please?
I know Kate mentions someone but not by name.
I can see what you mean. That was badly put, and not what I was trying to say. In the second sentence I missed out a comma after 'that'. To make it mean what you took it to mean, the comma would have been after 'after'
As her book was published after his quote, I assumed people would know that. I should have made it clear. Corrected below.
Gerry McCann had apologised to Mrs Fenn for the unwanted attention, said her son in 2011.
Shortly after he said that, Mrs McCann published her book, in which she criticises his mother.
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I wonder if Mrs Fenn's relatives read Mrs McCann's book?
Then a lady appeared on a balcony – I’m fairly certain this was about 11pm, before the police arrived – and, in a plummy voice, inquired, ‘Can someone tell me what all the noise is about?’ I explained as clearly as I was able, given the state I was in, that my little girl had been stolen from her bed, to which she casually responded, ‘Oh, I see,’ almost as if she’d just been told that a can of beans had fallen off a kitchen shelf. I remember feeling both
shocked and angry at this woefully inadequate and apparently unconcerned reaction. I recollect that in our outrage, Fiona and I shouted back something rather short and to the point. [Madeleine]
Sums them up very nicely.
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"Gerry McCann did come up to apologise to my mother for all the unwanted attention – which was incredibly kind as he has endured a grief and pain that no parent should ever have to withstand.” Ian Fenn
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/8469932/Madeleine-McCann-time-to-forget.html
Sums him up very nicely.
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Sums them up very nicely.
I disagree.
I think it sums up the situation in which they found themselves which probably made everything going on around them pale into insignificance ... even to forgetting the niceties of politeness to old ladies.
Don't you think Mrs Fenn's described response reflects that awkward situation we have all been in at one time or another when we have enquired after the health of an acquaintance from his nearest and dearest, to be told he is dead.
Must be similar to being told the hubbub one is enquiring about is as a result of a child going missing.
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reports of a confession of sorts?
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I'm sure the Fenns were grown up enough to realise that Kate was writing from the point of view of a woman who had just discovered her child was missing, and therefore that any irritation or stress on her part was understandable in the circumstances.
She wasn't stressed four years later when she told the world about the incident in her book. It seems the lady with the 'plummy voice' had not been forgiven for her perceived lack of sympathy.
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She wasn't stressed four years later when she told the world about the incident in her book. It seems the lady with the 'plummy voice' had not been forgiven for her perceived lack of sympathy.
The book MADELEINE was a record of events written by one of the main witnesses. She told it as it was.
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The book MADELEINE was a record of events written by one of the main witnesses. She told it as it was.
No, just from her personal bias.
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No, just from her personal bias.
and she is entitled to do that.
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and she is entitled to do that.
Indeed she is/was.
One would however be inclined to dump it [the book] in the same bin as The Sound of Music. Unless of course one believes that The Sound of Music was intended as a serious socio-political commentary on 1930s Austria.
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She wasn't stressed four years later when she told the world about the incident in her book. It seems the lady with the 'plummy voice' had not been forgiven for her perceived lack of sympathy.
So, what should she have written about the incident in your view?
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So, what should she have written about the incident in your view?
I'm quite content to read what she did write Alfie; most enlightening.
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I'm quite content to read what she did write Alfie; most enlightening.
Really? In what way have you been enlightened?
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Really? In what way have you been enlightened?
That an incident lasting a few moments was remembered for four years and considered important enough to be included in a book about her daughter's disappearance.
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That an incident lasting a few moments was remembered for four years and considered important enough to be included in a book about her daughter's disappearance.
Gosh, what a revelation!
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"Gerry McCann did come up to apologise to my mother for all the unwanted attention – which was incredibly kind as he has endured a grief and pain that no parent should ever have to withstand.” Ian Fenn
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/8469932/Madeleine-McCann-time-to-forget.html
I think that was an incredibly nice gesture given the awful circumstances. Mrs Fenn was a permanent resident in her apartment immediately above that which the McCanns occupied and from which Madeleine disappeared, afterwards she would have witnessed events on a daily basis as they played out in the streets around block 5.
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Back to Mrs Fenn. Did the police bombard her with unwanted attention while the McCanns were still residing at OC?
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Back to Mrs Fenn. Did the police bombard her with unwanted attention while the McCanns were still residing at OC?
The police appear to have studiously avoided disturbing Mrs Fenn in the short term.
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The police appear to have studiously avoided disturbing Mrs Fenn in the short term.
I confess, that made me laugh.
But perhaps it shouldn't have.
The underlying point is deadly serious.
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The unwanted attention received by Mrs Fenn seems to have been from the media.
On 18th August 2007 the Sun said;
Meanwhile Portuguese cops were again under fire. The woman living in the apartment above the McCanns claimed she had not been spoken to by police until the British team arrived two weeks ago.
The Mirror;
British police reviewed the case two weeks ago. Mrs Fenn will now be formally interviewed for the first time on Monday.
The Express;
Incredibly Mrs Fenn, who lives in the apartment directly above the flat the McCanns were staying in, was never interviewed by Portuguese police, it was claimed yesterday.
It was only when a team of British officers were called in to help carry out a major review of the case that the information was acted on.
"The first time a police officer spoke to her was when the British officers with sniffer dogs knocked on her door and searched her apartment.
"She told an officer what she knew and now she has been asked to make a formal statement.
Asked why the police had not carried out their weekly update meeting with the McCanns.
The source said: "It is not the McCanns who decide when we meet.
"We do that only when there is relevant information to tell them."
Kate and Gerry McCann have still not been briefed on any developments but hope to meet detectives this week.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id331.html
So from this confused mix of media reports it seems that Mrs Fenn may have spoken to the search team, including Harrison and Grime. As far as is known they certainly didn't search her flat. Someone seems to have told the press what she said before the PJ even interviewed her formally. Hence the 'unwanted attention' Mrs Fenn was subjected to.
Quite why Gerry McCann felt the need to apologise to her is unclear. He wasn't to blame for the behaviour of the press, was he?
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The unwanted attention received by Mrs Fenn seems to have been from the media.
On 18th August 2007 the Sun said;
Meanwhile Portuguese cops were again under fire. The woman living in the apartment above the McCanns claimed she had not been spoken to by police until the British team arrived two weeks ago.
The Mirror;
British police reviewed the case two weeks ago. Mrs Fenn will now be formally interviewed for the first time on Monday.
The Express;
Incredibly Mrs Fenn, who lives in the apartment directly above the flat the McCanns were staying in, was never interviewed by Portuguese police, it was claimed yesterday.
It was only when a team of British officers were called in to help carry out a major review of the case that the information was acted on.
"The first time a police officer spoke to her was when the British officers with sniffer dogs knocked on her door and searched her apartment.
"She told an officer what she knew and now she has been asked to make a formal statement.
Asked why the police had not carried out their weekly update meeting with the McCanns.
The source said: "It is not the McCanns who decide when we meet.
"We do that only when there is relevant information to tell them."
Kate and Gerry McCann have still not been briefed on any developments but hope to meet detectives this week.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id331.html
So from this confused mix of media reports it seems that Mrs Fenn may have spoken to the search team, including Harrison and Grime. As far as is known they certainly didn't search her flat. Someone seems to have told the press what she said before the PJ even interviewed her formally. Hence the 'unwanted attention' Mrs Fenn was subjected to.
Quite why Gerry McCann felt the need to apologise to her is unclear. He wasn't to blame for the behaviour of the press, was he?
Other than, possibly, in respect of the break-in Mrs Fenn was, herself, a victim of, why would anyone have wanted to search Mrs Fenn's flat?
She was a witness, not a suspect.
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The unwanted attention received by Mrs Fenn seems to have been from the media.
On 18th August 2007 the Sun said;
Meanwhile Portuguese cops were again under fire. The woman living in the apartment above the McCanns claimed she had not been spoken to by police until the British team arrived two weeks ago.
The Mirror;
British police reviewed the case two weeks ago. Mrs Fenn will now be formally interviewed for the first time on Monday.
The Express;
Incredibly Mrs Fenn, who lives in the apartment directly above the flat the McCanns were staying in, was never interviewed by Portuguese police, it was claimed yesterday.
It was only when a team of British officers were called in to help carry out a major review of the case that the information was acted on.
"The first time a police officer spoke to her was when the British officers with sniffer dogs knocked on her door and searched her apartment.
"She told an officer what she knew and now she has been asked to make a formal statement.
Asked why the police had not carried out their weekly update meeting with the McCanns.
The source said: "It is not the McCanns who decide when we meet.
"We do that only when there is relevant information to tell them."
Kate and Gerry McCann have still not been briefed on any developments but hope to meet detectives this week.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id331.html
So from this confused mix of media reports it seems that Mrs Fenn may have spoken to the search team, including Harrison and Grime. As far as is known they certainly didn't search her flat. Someone seems to have told the press what she said before the PJ even interviewed her formally. Hence the 'unwanted attention' Mrs Fenn was subjected to.
Quite why Gerry McCann felt the need to apologise to her is unclear. He wasn't to blame for the behaviour of the press, was he?
Good manners perhaps.
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Other than, possibly, in respect of the break-in Mrs Fenn was, herself, a victim of, why would anyone have wanted to search Mrs Fenn's flat?
She was a witness, not a suspect.
Just being thorough. Weren't all the apartments checked?
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The unwanted attention received by Mrs Fenn seems to have been from the media.
On 18th August 2007 the Sun said;
Meanwhile Portuguese cops were again under fire. The woman living in the apartment above the McCanns claimed she had not been spoken to by police until the British team arrived two weeks ago.
The Mirror;
British police reviewed the case two weeks ago. Mrs Fenn will now be formally interviewed for the first time on Monday.
The Express;
Incredibly Mrs Fenn, who lives in the apartment directly above the flat the McCanns were staying in, was never interviewed by Portuguese police, it was claimed yesterday.
It was only when a team of British officers were called in to help carry out a major review of the case that the information was acted on.
"The first time a police officer spoke to her was when the British officers with sniffer dogs knocked on her door and searched her apartment.
"She told an officer what she knew and now she has been asked to make a formal statement.
Asked why the police had not carried out their weekly update meeting with the McCanns.
The source said: "It is not the McCanns who decide when we meet.
"We do that only when there is relevant information to tell them."
Kate and Gerry McCann have still not been briefed on any developments but hope to meet detectives this week.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id331.html
So from this confused mix of media reports it seems that Mrs Fenn may have spoken to the search team, including Harrison and Grime. As far as is known they certainly didn't search her flat. Someone seems to have told the press what she said before the PJ even interviewed her formally. Hence the 'unwanted attention' Mrs Fenn was subjected to.
Quite why Gerry McCann felt the need to apologise to her is unclear. He wasn't to blame for the behaviour of the press, was he?
No he wasn't but it shows that he felt responsible for the situation, shows he was able to empathise with another human being who had also been subjected to the media frenzy, do you have a problem with this?
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No he wasn't but it shows that he felt responsible for the situation, shows he was able to empathise with another human being who had also been subjected to the media frenzy, do you have a problem with this?
A media frenzy which they fully utilized, as Jeremy Paxman remarked when interviewing McCann.
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Good manners perhaps.
You need something like empathy to consider an angle like that, though ...
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Please keep to topic. TY