UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Off Topic and General Discussions => Off topic, general discussions and the Wide Awake Club. => Topic started by: Mr Gray on July 03, 2017, 05:38:52 PM
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It would be interesting to see how posters see the Charlie Gard situation....I have every sympathy with the parents but it seems its time to let the poor boy go.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/03/donald-trump-offers-help-for-terminally-ill-baby-charlie-gard
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I'm praying for a miracle and I've just lit a candle. Well, you never know.
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My thoughts and prayers are with this little boy and his family.
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It would be interesting to see how posters see the Charlie Gard situation....I have every sympathy with the parents but it seems its time to let the poor boy go.
For once I agree with you.
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It would be interesting to see how posters see the Charlie Gard situation....I have every sympathy with the parents but it seems its time to let the poor boy go.
Like Ashya King's parents, why should Charlie's parents have even been forced to take their case to court? It's too late for Charlie now, despite his parents having the means & the will to offer him a glimmer of a chance. I find it so wrong that the State can pick & choose when it wants to override parental rights & responsibilities - which, in this case, guaranteed only one outcome.
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Like Ashya King's parents, why should Charlie's parents have even been forced to take their case to court? It's too late for Charlie now, despite his parents having the means & the will to offer him a glimmer of a chance. I find it so wrong that the State can pick & choose when it wants to override parental rights & responsibilities - which, in this case, guaranteed only one outcome.
Depends if he can be offered a glimmer of hope or whether his case is totally hopeless
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Depends if he can be offered a glimmer of hope or whether his case is totally hopeless
https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/3318065/arthur-olga-estopinan-arturito-charlie-gard-court-case/
There is a glimmer.
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I just don't get it. The money is there and since he is going to die if they do nothing then why not at least try?
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I just don't get it. The money is there and since he is going to die if they do nothing then why not at least try?
The Medical Profession & the State think they know best. Maybe legally they do, but morally? Charlie never got to make a choice.
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And then there's the time wasted going backwards and forwards to Court where the parents have been denied any rights at all.
The Doctors said this and The Courts said that. Thank you very much. Pull the plug. It's horrific.
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The Medical Profession & the State think they know best. Maybe legally they do, but morally? Charlie never got to make a choice.
but if Charlie is deaf...blind...severely brain damaged and unable to breathe.......perhaps they do know best
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but if Charlie is deaf...blind...severely brain damaged and unable to breathe.......perhaps they do know best
If.
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but if Charlie is deaf...blind...severely brain damaged and unable to breathe.......perhaps they do know best
If they know best then why did they treat him in the first place, why keep him on a ventilator? There are many children who suffer all the conditions you have listed but they aren't condemned to die simply because the underlying cause is deemed incurable.
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I can't help feeling that something could have been done sooner before he deteriorated so far. There were experimental treatments when he was first diagnosed.
But that's it. It's incurable. Don't even bother trying.
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If they know best then why did they treat him in the first place, why keep him on a ventilator? There are many children who suffer all the conditions you have listed but they aren't condemned to die simply because the underlying cause is deemed incurable.
it seems that when he was born he seemed quite normal but his condition has deteriorated..I would think that the doctors are unable to discuss the case due to confidentality
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it seems that when he was born he seemed quite normal but his condition has deteriorated..
And The Doctors and The Courts have been messing about for months while depriving his parents of the right to decided.
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And The Doctors and The Courts have been messing about for months while depriving his parents of the right to decided.
Therein lies the problem. The doctors kept him alive & continued to keep him alive, despite his perceived suffering & his parents' anguish. If the Science is available to help him further then why are the UK Doctors & Courts allowed to play God & decide how & when he is to die?
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Therein lies the problem. The doctors kept him alive & continued to keep him alive, despite his perceived suffering & his parents' anguish. If the Science is available to help him further then why are the UK Doctors & Courts to play God & decide how & when he is to die?
That's what makes me feel sick about the whole awful business. His parents have had absolutely no say in the matter.
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It would be interesting to see how posters see the Charlie Gard situation....I have every sympathy with the parents but it seems its time to let the poor boy go.
My heart tells me one thing but my brain tells me another
We have gone thru this ourselves. Our lovely little boy had an incurable brain cancer.
He was only nine and had been so full of energy and life until this damned Medular Blastoma hit him. We were Company Insured for medical treatment and he had the best treatment that money could buy, with the best brain surgeon and radio therapy .... but as we feared it came back after only a few months of not good, but reasonable time bought from these treatments.
This time it showed on the spine and we were told that it would be thru his body. However it could be delayed a little with further (painful) treatment, but it would get him in the end.
We loved him dearly but decided that to keep him alive would be for us, and us alone, because we just didn't want to face life without him. Further life held nothing for him except pain and bed. It would have been selfish for us to keep him alive in the circumstances
We made the dreadful decision for no further treatment ... and brought him home where we nursed and loved him until he passed away a couple of months later.
I think that we made the right and unselfish decision ... BUT each case is unique and i wouldn't like to pass judgement on the parents of Charlie Gard
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If they know best then why did they treat him in the first place, why keep him on a ventilator? There are many children who suffer all the conditions you have listed but they aren't condemned to die simply because the underlying cause is deemed incurable.
The first reaction is always to try and save a life. Once you have started it is much more difficult to stop.
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The first reaction is always to try and save a life. Once you have started it is much more difficult to stop.
I just find it so hard to understand why the Doctors & Courts will not agree to end life when a person wants to die because of a terminal illness, yet refuses to continue care for Charlie when there is a glimmer of hope.
Ashya's parents must feel truly relieved they broke the law for the sake of their son yet the NHS are still refusing to provide basic follow-up care. Plenty of money to pay the lawyers - truly disgusting reflections of care in our country.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/youre-still-failing-him-parents-10462249
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The first reaction is always to try and save a life. Once you have started it is much more difficult to stop.
I can see only too clearly how they got where they are. But Parental Rights are far too easily disposed of.
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My heart tells me one thing but my brain tells me another
We have gone thru this ourselves. Our lovely little boy had an incurable brain cancer.
He was only nine and had been so full of energy and life until this damned Medular Blastoma hit him. We were Company Insured for medical treatment and he had the best treatment that money could buy, with the best brain surgeon and radio therapy .... but as we feared it came back after only a few months of not good, but reasonable time bought from these treatments.
This time it showed on the spine and we were told that it would be thru his body. However it could be delayed a little with further (painful) treatment, but it would get him in the end.
We loved him dearly but decided that to keep him alive would be for us, and us alone, because we just didn't want to face life without him. Further life held nothing for him except pain and bed. It would have been selfish for us to keep him alive in the circumstances
We made the dreadful decision for no further treatment ... and brought him home where we nursed and loved him until he passed away a couple of months later.
I think that we made the right and unselfish decision ... BUT each case is unique and i wouldn't like to pass judgement on the parents of Charlie Gard
Wow .... so powerful and sad. I am sorry your little man didn't make it and I admire your strength to do the right thing for his sake. Quality of life and dignity in life should be the guiding factors rather than the anguish of the poor loved ones having to suffer the loss.
I think little Charlie's parents should let him go in peace.
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My heart tells me one thing but my brain tells me another
We have gone thru this ourselves. Our lovely little boy had an incurable brain cancer.
He was only nine and had been so full of energy and life until this damned Medular Blastoma hit him. We were Company Insured for medical treatment and he had the best treatment that money could buy, with the best brain surgeon and radio therapy .... but as we feared it came back after only a few months of not good, but reasonable time bought from these treatments.
This time it showed on the spine and we were told that it would be thru his body. However it could be delayed a little with further (painful) treatment, but it would get him in the end.
We loved him dearly but decided that to keep him alive would be for us, and us alone, because we just didn't want to face life without him. Further life held nothing for him except pain and bed. It would have been selfish for us to keep him alive in the circumstances
We made the dreadful decision for no further treatment ... and brought him home where we nursed and loved him until he passed away a couple of months later.
I think that we made the right and unselfish decision ... BUT each case is unique and i wouldn't like to pass judgement on the parents of Charlie Gard
Video of Ashya as he was in January 2017, about to return to school. Do hope that he contunued to improve.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jan/04/ashya-king-goes-back-to-school-full-time
As far as I am aware, there was no such treatment as proton therapy over 40 years ago, when our son died.
It is especially good that the work and love that The Kings put in finding and accessing this treatment, has not only benefitted their little boy, but also brought three centres for proton treatment to the UK. Hopefully many more lives will be saved.
Well done The Kings 8@??)( and all good wishes for the continued recovery of Ashya
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Wow .... so powerful and sad. I am sorry your little man didn't make it and I admire your strength to do the right thing for his sake. Quality of life and dignity in life should be the guiding factors rather than the anguish of the poor loved ones having to suffer the loss.
I think little Charlie's parents should let him go in peace.
Thank you for your kind words Tim
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It would be interesting to see how posters see the Charlie Gard situation....I have every sympathy with the parents but it seems its time to let the poor boy go.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/03/donald-trump-offers-help-for-terminally-ill-baby-charlie-gard
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Well, this is one of the rare times we agree.
I think , unfortunately, Trump's offer, is more to do with his public image.
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Well, this is one of the rare times we agree.
I think , unfortunately, Trump's offer, is more to do with his public image.
You're so cynical! DT is a father of 5 and grandfather to more so hopefully he just empathises with the parents plight and his support is genuine.
It's such a sad case. Apparently the parents are both carriers of the faulty gene which leads to the condition and little Charlie is the 16th case known about worldwide so its obviously very rare.
I think the crux is whether or not Charlie would suffer any pain etc by having his life prolonged and undergoing the experimental treatment which according to all the medical evidence so far seems to suggest there's little or no chance of any success. If it could be shown he wouldn't suffer then I don't see why the parents wishes cannot be granted as it may further understanding of the condition and help others if not Charlie.
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You're so cynical! DT is a father of 5 and grandfather to more so hopefully he just empathises with the parents plight and his support is genuine.
It's such a sad case. Apparently the parents are both carriers of the faulty gene which leads to the condition and little Charlie is the 16th case known about worldwide so its obviously very rare.
I think the crux is whether or not Charlie would suffer any pain etc by having his life prolonged and undergoing the experimental treatment which according to all the medical evidence so far seems to suggest there's little or no chance of any success. If it could be shown he wouldn't suffer then I don't see why the parents wishes cannot be granted as it may further understanding of the condition and help others if not Charlie.
Maybe I am Holly.
I just don't trust Trump.
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Maybe I am Holly.
I just don't trust Trump.
I would need to meet with him, DT, and talk with him face-to-face to form my own opinions. Very few people are all bad or all good. DT's children seem to be a credit to him a fact even HC acknowledged. Compare what we know about his children and the likes of the Ecclestone sisters and Chloe Green who seem to swan about doing sfa other than spending Daddy's money and getting involved with bad or mad boys!
If Charlie can be taken to US for pioneering treatment and it is a success then it would clearly be a big coup for the US and DT.
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The Child is the product of his Parents. No one has the right beyond them, no matter what they think.. They will see to him if they are allowed to do so.
But then they should be allowed to do so.
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Maybe I am Holly.
I just don't trust Trump.
My guess wouldn't say that if it was Obama!
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Wow .... so powerful and sad. I am sorry your little man didn't make it and I admire your strength to do the right thing for his sake. Quality of life and dignity in life should be the guiding factors rather than the anguish of the poor loved ones having to suffer the loss.
I think little Charlie's parents should let him go in peace.
I agree. I really hope that I have some understanding of the parents' desperate position and fear of losing Charlie, but he's already on morphine. And his brain damage is irreversible. It's a sad, clumsy comparison, but I would be prosecuted if one of my animals was found to be as hopelessly ill as Charlie, but I was forcing that animal to exist for me.
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The Child is the product of his Parents. No one has the right beyond them, no matter what they think.. They will see to him if they are allowed to do so.
But then they should be allowed to do so.
Parents (fathers really) used to have complete power over their children. That changed in 1889 with an act of Parliament allowing the State to intervene on the child's behalf for the first time. State intervention has increased ever since. That has happened because parents don't always make the right decisions for their children. Although parents still have rights they also have responsibilities. The priority should always be the child, not the parents.
Having said that, I have no idea who's right in this particular case.