UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: John on August 09, 2017, 11:32:11 AM
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Madeleine McCann’s parents face less than two months of guaranteed funding for British cops to find their daughter.
Kate and Gerry McCann are anxiously waiting to find out if Operation Grange will receive more funding.
(http://i.imgur.com/CumYM2C.jpg?1)
By Tracey Kandohla
9th August 2017
THE PARENTS of Madeleine McCann have thanked the public “for continuing to be by our side” as they face less than two months of guaranteed funding for British cops to find their daughter.
A post today on the official Find Maddie campaign website, endorsed by Kate and Gerry and viewed by thousands of followers across the world, states: “Thank you for continuing to be by our side and supporting us in our search for Madeleine. We are extremely grateful.”
The message is accompanied by a simple verse on a sky-blue backdrop: “Ah, kindness. What a simple way to tell another struggling soul that there is love to be found in this world.”
Maddie’s parents are anxiously waiting to find out if Operation Grange, the £12million inquiry into their daughter’s disappearance, will be extended with a new cash boost in October.
Scotland Yard announced a month ago their “investigation is continuing with focus and determination” but as yet no new significant clues have been unearthed.
As time could be running out for police to solve the case, the family still cling onto a glimmer of hope that Maddie could be found alive after vanishing from a Portuguese holiday apartment 10 years and three months ago.
(https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/maddie11.png?strip=all&w=487&quality=100)
And as a gesture to Madeleine’s memory, they keep a candle burning round the clock for her in their home village of Rothley, Leics.
The lantern beside the black railings surrounding the war memorial in the heart of the village at Cross Green is synonymous with the lost girl.
Maddie’s great uncle Brian Kennedy told The Sun Online how the lantern – which has been in situ ever since the three-year-old was snatched from Praia da Luz in May 2007 – had undergone “a big clean up.”
Ex head teacher Brian, who also lives in Rothley and with wife Janet looks after the special tribute, said: “The lantern was taken away because it became very sooty and needed a big clean up which we have now done.”
As the sparkling lantern, with candle constantly lit and glimmering inside, returned to its designated spot after being gone for a few weeks, a McCann pal said: “The candle is a constant reminder for locals that one of their young fellow villagers is still missing and out there somewhere to hopefully be found alive and well.”
(https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/nintchdbpict000344492317.jpg?strip=all&quality=100&w=480)
Maddie disappeared from The Algarve holiday flat while her parents were dining with pals in a nearby tapas restaurant. She had been left alone sleeping with her younger twin siblings Sean and Amelie, now aged 12.
World renowned heart doctor Gerry and medical worker Kate, a former GP, both 49, refuse to give up hope and have vowed to “leave no stone unturned” in the painstaking search for their eldest child.
Their daughter would now be aged 14 and would be preparing for the new and important secondary school Year 10 when GCSE courses begin. She would be a pupil at the prestigious Catholic School in Loughborough where her great uncle once presided over.
Met Police have less than eight weeks of Home Office funding left to try and crack the world’s biggest ever child disappearances.
They must submit an application if they need further funds during the second half the current financial year which will then be considered but not guaranteed by special grants committee.
Officers were given an extra £85,000 in April to extend Op Grange until the end of September amid speculation detectives were closing in on a suspect.
A force spokesman previously told The Sun Online: “A lot of potentially significant images and material were captured on previous trips to Portugal and we are still working on all leads.”
It came as the Yard’s Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley said they were still “critical leads” to pursue.
Speaking to mark the milestone 10th anniversary in May of Maddie’s disappearance, the top cop said there were “significant investigative avenues” that are of “great interest” to both the UK and Portuguese teams.
He said: “We want to solve it, we want a breakthrough, adding “there is no definite evidence” proving Madeleine is alive or dead.
Maddie’s parents Kate and Gerry are said to be “buoyed up” and “extremely grateful” by the Met’s continuing efforts to find their daughter.
In their latest anniversary message to mark “a decade of pain” the McCann’s said:““Thankfully there is an active police investigation to try and find Madeleine and bring her abductor to justice.”
A source close to the couple said: “It is heartbreaking for Kate and Gerry to still not know after a decade what happened to Madeleine. But to know there is still an active police investigation doing their very best to help find her gives them a strength and comfort.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4201196/madeleine-mccanns-parents-thank-supporters-for-continuing-to-be-on-our-side-as-they-wait-to-see-if-investigation-will-get-cash-boost/
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Positive news via Twitter (apparently Brunt was on Sky News earlier reporting this)
Martin BruntVerified account @skymartinbrunt 44m44 minutes ago
More
#Madeleine Scot Yard to ask Home Office for more funds to carry on its £11m investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann
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Positive news via Twitter (apparently Brunt was on Sky News earlier reporting this)
Martin BruntVerified account @skymartinbrunt 44m44 minutes ago
More
#Madeleine Scot Yard to ask Home Office for more funds to carry on its £11m investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann
Thank you for that update
It's good to know that they hope to continue a line of investigation.
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Thank you for that update
It's good to know that they hope to continue a line of investigation.
If Scotland Yard do ask for further funding it must signify there is still work to be done on Madeleine's case. I hope their investigation has a positive outcome.
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http://news.sky.com/story/hunt-for-madeleine-mccann-needs-more-cash-to-continue-10999676
By Martin Brunt, Crime Correspondent
Scotland Yard is to ask for more money to continue its six-year investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Detectives are struggling to resolve a final lead, which, if it fizzled out, could have brought the £11m Government-funded investigation to an end next month.
I understand that the Home Office is willing to carry on paying for the last bit of work to be completed.
A source said: "We will be asking for more money because we need to complete the work we are doing. It is complicated and not as straightforward as we had hoped, but it is worth doing."
Madeleine was nearly four years old when she vanished without trace from her family's rented holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal, in May 2007.
The Portuguese police closed their investigation 15 months later, after finding nothing to explain her disappearance.
In 2011, after an appeal from her parents Kate and Gerry McCann, the then Prime Minister David Cameron asked Scotland Yard to investigate with special Home Office funding.
Sixteen months ago then Scotland Yard Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe said his squad - reduced in 2015 from 30 to three staff - was expecting to close a final investigative lead within months.
"That line of inquiry probably at the moment is the conclusion of this inquiry," he said.
In April this year, Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley said detectives were still following a critical lead.
"We have a significant line of inquiry which is worth pursuing and because it's worth pursuing it could provide an answer - but until we've gone through it I won't know whether we are going to get there or not."
Police will give no details of the lead - nor why it is proving so difficult to resolve. But they want more time to pursue it.
There has been speculation that it involves a hunt for a suspect or a key witness, but none of that has been confirmed.
Retired Metropolitan Police detective Peter Kirkham said: "Media interest and the political drive for it to be done in the first place will add to a reluctance to stop the investigation until they are absolutely sure they have done everything they can.
"If a line of inquiry has any signs of life in it whatsoever, they will be saying 'this is here and we can do it but we'll need this amount to do it and if you don't wish to pay for it that is your decision'."
A spokesman for Madeleine's family told Sky News: "The McCanns will be pleased. The fact that the police feel there is still work to be done which needs funding is very encouraging.
"They remain grateful to all the officers involved in the investigation."
Scotland Yard said: "Funding is in place until the end of September. Any details about future funding will be released when appropriate."
The Home Office confirmed that funding for Operation Grange had been provided until the end of next month.
"The level of funding provided is a reflection of the wide-ranging and complex nature of the investigation which the police have deemed necessary to undertake," a spokesperson said.
They added that they have not received a new funding request from Scotland Yard but that "any future request will be considered carefully".
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Just watched the report on Sky News & Brunt said both police forces believe Madeleine could still be alive & there is no evidence she is dead.
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http://news.sky.com/story/hunt-for-madeleine-mccann-needs-more-cash-to-continue-10999676
By Martin Brunt, Crime Correspondent
Scotland Yard is to ask for more money to continue its six-year investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Detectives are struggling to resolve a final lead, which, if it fizzled out, could have brought the £11m Government-funded investigation to an end next month.
I understand that the Home Office is willing to carry on paying for the last bit of work to be completed.
A source said: "We will be asking for more money because we need to complete the work we are doing. It is complicated and not as straightforward as we had hoped, but it is worth doing."
Madeleine was nearly four years old when she vanished without trace from her family's rented holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal, in May 2007.
The Portuguese police closed their investigation 15 months later, after finding nothing to explain her disappearance.
In 2011, after an appeal from her parents Kate and Gerry McCann, the then Prime Minister David Cameron asked Scotland Yard to investigate with special Home Office funding.
Sixteen months ago then Scotland Yard Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe said his squad - reduced in 2015 from 30 to three staff - was expecting to close a final investigative lead within months.
"That line of inquiry probably at the moment is the conclusion of this inquiry," he said.
In April this year, Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley said detectives were still following a critical lead.
"We have a significant line of inquiry which is worth pursuing and because it's worth pursuing it could provide an answer - but until we've gone through it I won't know whether we are going to get there or not."
Police will give no details of the lead - nor why it is proving so difficult to resolve. But they want more time to pursue it.
There has been speculation that it involves a hunt for a suspect or a key witness, but none of that has been confirmed.
Retired Metropolitan Police detective Peter Kirkham said: "Media interest and the political drive for it to be done in the first place will add to a reluctance to stop the investigation until they are absolutely sure they have done everything they can.
"If a line of inquiry has any signs of life in it whatsoever, they will be saying 'this is here and we can do it but we'll need this amount to do it and if you don't wish to pay for it that is your decision'."
A spokesman for Madeleine's family told Sky News: "The McCanns will be pleased. The fact that the police feel there is still work to be done which needs funding is very encouraging.
"They remain grateful to all the officers involved in the investigation."
Scotland Yard said: "Funding is in place until the end of September. Any details about future funding will be released when appropriate."
The Home Office confirmed that funding for Operation Grange had been provided until the end of next month.
"The level of funding provided is a reflection of the wide-ranging and complex nature of the investigation which the police have deemed necessary to undertake," a spokesperson said.
They added that they have not received a new funding request from Scotland Yard but that "any future request will be considered carefully".
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Just watched the report on Sky News & Brunt said both police forces believe Madeleine could still be alive & there is no evidence she is dead.
Fabulous news misty
I predict that SY will have charged someone before October is out. I've been saying this for a while, and it does depend upon whether they have enough evidence to charge him.
I am wondering how many people they might charge in addition?
AIMHO
I will have to eat my hat if I am wrong *&*%£ 8(>((
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http://news.sky.com/story/hunt-for-madeleine-mccann-needs-more-cash-to-continue-10999676
By Martin Brunt, Crime Correspondent
Scotland Yard is to ask for more money to continue its six-year investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Detectives are struggling to resolve a final lead, which, if it fizzled out, could have brought the £11m Government-funded investigation to an end next month.
I understand that the Home Office is willing to carry on paying for the last bit of work to be completed.
A source said: "We will be asking for more money because we need to complete the work we are doing. It is complicated and not as straightforward as we had hoped, but it is worth doing."
Madeleine was nearly four years old when she vanished without trace from her family's rented holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal, in May 2007.
The Portuguese police closed their investigation 15 months later, after finding nothing to explain her disappearance.
In 2011, after an appeal from her parents Kate and Gerry McCann, the then Prime Minister David Cameron asked Scotland Yard to investigate with special Home Office funding.
Sixteen months ago then Scotland Yard Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe said his squad - reduced in 2015 from 30 to three staff - was expecting to close a final investigative lead within months.
"That line of inquiry probably at the moment is the conclusion of this inquiry," he said.
In April this year, Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley said detectives were still following a critical lead.
"We have a significant line of inquiry which is worth pursuing and because it's worth pursuing it could provide an answer - but until we've gone through it I won't know whether we are going to get there or not."
Police will give no details of the lead - nor why it is proving so difficult to resolve. But they want more time to pursue it.
There has been speculation that it involves a hunt for a suspect or a key witness, but none of that has been confirmed.
Retired Metropolitan Police detective Peter Kirkham said: "Media interest and the political drive for it to be done in the first place will add to a reluctance to stop the investigation until they are absolutely sure they have done everything they can.
"If a line of inquiry has any signs of life in it whatsoever, they will be saying 'this is here and we can do it but we'll need this amount to do it and if you don't wish to pay for it that is your decision'."
A spokesman for Madeleine's family told Sky News: "The McCanns will be pleased. The fact that the police feel there is still work to be done which needs funding is very encouraging.
"They remain grateful to all the officers involved in the investigation."
Scotland Yard said: "Funding is in place until the end of September. Any details about future funding will be released when appropriate."
The Home Office confirmed that funding for Operation Grange had been provided until the end of next month.
"The level of funding provided is a reflection of the wide-ranging and complex nature of the investigation which the police have deemed necessary to undertake," a spokesperson said.
They added that they have not received a new funding request from Scotland Yard but that "any future request will be considered carefully".
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Just watched the report on Sky News & Brunt said both police forces believe Madeleine could still be alive & there is no evidence she is dead.
No application for further funding has been made or received at the moment.
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Fabulous news misty
I predict that SY will have charged someone before October is out. I've been saying this for a while, and it does depend upon whether they have enough evidence to charge him.
I am wondering how many people they might charge in addition?
AIMHO
I will have to eat my hat if I am wrong *&*%£ 8(>((
Must bookmark that.
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Fabulous news misty
I predict that SY will have charged someone before October is out. I've been saying this for a while, and it does depend upon whether they have enough evidence to charge him.
I am wondering how many people they might charge in addition?
AIMHO
I will have to eat my hat if I am wrong *&*%£ 8(>((
Must be all those pointers and predictions you've made..
Keep your hat ready. 8(0(*
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Fabulous news misty
I predict that SY will have charged someone before October is out. I've been saying this for a while, and it does depend upon whether they have enough evidence to charge him.
I am wondering how many people they might charge in addition?
AIMHO
I will have to eat my hat if I am wrong *&*%£ 8(>((
Operation Grange is working in support of the Portuguese investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. If any charges are brought it will be unlikely to be the UK police who bring them or the UK courts who try someone. Perhaps it's time to start choosing which hat looks the tastiest.
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Operation Grange is working in support of the Portuguese investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. If any charges are brought it will be unlikely to be the UK police who bring them or the UK courts who try someone. Perhaps it's time to start choosing which hat looks the tastiest.
Exactly.
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Operation Grange has been given permission by the Portuguese to investigate this case. I don't think they have the jurisdiction to charge anyone. Predicting that they will is therefore unrealistic in my opinion.
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I think SY are looking for an excuse to terminate the investigation. They know if they keep asking for more funds that there will come a time when it will be refused and so the blame can be shifted. We are living in a world where it is always someone else's fault.
Had there been any significant breakthrough then the Portuguese would be part of it and we would have heard about it since it is well known that the PJ leaks like a sieve.
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I think SY are looking for an excuse to terminate the investigation. They know if they keep asking for more funds that there will come a time when it will be refused and so the blame can be shifted. We are living in a world where it is always someone else's fault.
Had there been any significant breakthrough then the Portuguese would be part of it and we would have heard about it since it is well known that the PJ leaks like a sieve.
Pure speculation/opinion posted as fact IMO.
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Operation Grange is working in support of the Portuguese investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. If any charges are brought it will be unlikely to be the UK police who bring them or the UK courts who try someone. Perhaps it's time to start choosing which hat looks the tastiest.
Oh, I have already chosen it. A Carmen Miranda type hat, I like fruit ?{)(** and it would look very pretty to wear 8**8:/:
*&*%£
Seriously there is a reason why I am inclined to stick my neck out and make this prediction. I fully realise that I could be wrong, but .......
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Operation Grange is working in support of the Portuguese investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. If any charges are brought it will be unlikely to be the UK police who bring them or the UK courts who try someone. Perhaps it's time to start choosing which hat looks the tastiest.
What about if the man were British or had dual nationality?
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Oh, I have already chosen it. A Carmen Miranda type hat, I like fruit ?{)(** and it would look very pretty to wear 8**8:/:
*&*%£
Seriously there is a reason why I am inclined to stick my neck out and make this prediction. I fully realise that I could be wrong, but .......
So Sadie, as an accompaniment, would you prefer Maple syrup or Chocolate Sauce. @)(++(*
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So Sadie, as an accompaniment, would you prefer Maple syrup or Chocolate Sauce. @)(++(*
Diabetic
Are you trying to kill me? 8**8:/:
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Diabetic
Are you trying to kill me? 8**8:/:
You can try the Fructose based alternatives. 8((()*/
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What about if the man were British or had dual nationality?
CPS:
Resolving jurisdictional conflicts
Where the offence occurred on a single territory
Generally, an offence will only be triable in the jurisdiction in which the offence takes place, unless there is a specific provision to ground jurisdiction, for instance where specific statutes enable the UK to exercise extra-territorial jurisdiction:
sexual offences against children (section 72 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003) A new section 72 was substituted by the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008 which came into effect from 14 July 2008 onwards. It is important to ensure that any prosecution is brought under the provision in force at the time the alleged conduct occured as the terms of the substantive provisions and details of the offences they cover are not identical;
murder and manslaughter (subsection 9 and 10 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861)
fraud (the 2006 Act imposes extra territorial jurisdiction in respect od offences in subsection. 1, 6, 7, 9 and 11 of the Fraud Act 2006) and dishonesty (Criminal Justice Act 1993 Part 1 still applies to the remaining unrepealed sections of the Theft Act 1968);
terrorism (subsection 59, 62-63 of the Terrorism Act 2000 and section 17 of the Terrorism Act 2006);
bribery (The Bribery Act 2010 repeals the common law and the statutory offences of corruption for offences committed wholly on or after 1 July 2011. For those offences the Bribery Act imposes extra-territorial jurisdiction. Section 109 of the Anti-Terrorism and Security Act 2001 still applies to provide extre-territorial jurisdiction in respect of offences committed wholly or partially before 1 July 2011.
For a list of particular offences with an extra-territorial reach see Archbold .
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/24-25/100/section/9
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/h_to_k/jurisdiction/
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I see the authority for Mr Brunt's piece is the inevitable and ubquitous "Source".
I wonder about his source:
"Cette sauce de haute qualite est un mélange varié des machinations de son esprit trop fertile".
Those true book worms amongst you, who like me learned French by reading sauce bottles will recognise the bit in bold I am sure.
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I see the authority for Mr Brunt's piece is the inevitable and ubquitous "Source".
I wonder about his source:
"Cette sauce de haute qualite est un mélange varié des machinations de son esprit trop fertile".
Those true book worms amongst you, who like me learned French by reading sauce bottles will recognise the bit in bold I am sure.
Saurce for the goose and all that? 8(0(*
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Saurce for the goose and all that? 8(0(*
Oh it's just one of Alices Hot Pot saucy jokes, John.
Probably before your time!
He likes his little jokes. Take no notice, John
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'We still have work to do’ Madeleine McCann police vow to continue search
DETECTIVES searching for Madeleine McCann have vowed to “see the investigation through” and said: “It’s not finished until it’s finished.”
They will not stop their inquiry until they have conclusively established what happened to her, insiders said.
A source said: ‘‘The detectives are trying with as much energy as they did when Operation Grange started in 2011 to see this through and find her.
“That is all they can do. Their view on how long that will take is that it will only be finished when it is finished. They still have work to do and while that is the case they will carry on.
“There is no sense of wanting to throw in the towel.”
It emerged last week that senior Yard officers are considering a further request for six months of financial support from the Home Office, even though current funding does not run out until the end of next month.
Policing minister Mike Penning is expected to agree to further funding, costing around £90,000, but as he is relatively new in the job sources suggest he wants to know specific details of where the investigation is going and how close the Yard is to solving the mystery.
Mr Penning’s predecessor, Brandon Lewis, was fully supportive of the Yard’s efforts and was well briefed on the case, but senior officers know they are now dealing with a new minister and will have to give a fuller account of how the Home Office’s £11million has been spent so far and why more money is needed.
While the funding issue will be addressed in the coming weeks, sources say Kate and Gerry McCann are impressed by the continued commitment of the Yard team, headed by Detective Chief Superintendent Nicola Wall.
Read more...
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/846274/madeleine-mccain-missing-police-search-scotland-yard-portugal-latest-news
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'We still have work to do’ Madeleine McCann police vow to continue search
DETECTIVES searching for Madeleine McCann have vowed to “see the investigation through” and said: “It’s not finished until it’s finished.”
They will not stop their inquiry until they have conclusively established what happened to her, insiders said.
A source said: ‘‘The detectives are trying with as much energy as they did when Operation Grange started in 2011 to see this through and find her.
“That is all they can do. Their view on how long that will take is that it will only be finished when it is finished. They still have work to do and while that is the case they will carry on.
“There is no sense of wanting to throw in the towel.”
It emerged last week that senior Yard officers are considering a further request for six months of financial support from the Home Office, even though current funding does not run out until the end of next month.
Policing minister Mike Penning is expected to agree to further funding, costing around £90,000, but as he is relatively new in the job sources suggest he wants to know specific details of where the investigation is going and how close the Yard is to solving the mystery.
Mr Penning’s predecessor, Brandon Lewis, was fully supportive of the Yard’s efforts and was well briefed on the case, but senior officers know they are now dealing with a new minister and will have to give a fuller account of how the Home Office’s £11million has been spent so far and why more money is needed.
While the funding issue will be addressed in the coming weeks, sources say Kate and Gerry McCann are impressed by the continued commitment of the Yard team, headed by Detective Chief Superintendent Nicola Wall.
Read more...
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/846274/madeleine-mccain-missing-police-search-scotland-yard-portugal-latest-news
Thanks for that John.
I would have been amazed if there had been any question that the minister would not have been fully briefed before agreeing to hand over taxpayers money ... at the end of the day he has to make the decision and be able to justify it.
Good news though that the police want to continue.
Does anyone remember Sonia Poulton? Apparently she has a documentary? Should be interesting.
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'We still have work to do’ Madeleine McCann police vow to continue search
DETECTIVES searching for Madeleine McCann have vowed to “see the investigation through” and said: “It’s not finished until it’s finished.”
They will not stop their inquiry until they have conclusively established what happened to her, insiders said.
A source said: ‘‘The detectives are trying with as much energy as they did when Operation Grange started in 2011 to see this through and find her.
“That is all they can do. Their view on how long that will take is that it will only be finished when it is finished. They still have work to do and while that is the case they will carry on.
“There is no sense of wanting to throw in the towel.”
It emerged last week that senior Yard officers are considering a further request for six months of financial support from the Home Office, even though current funding does not run out until the end of next month.
Policing minister Mike Penning is expected to agree to further funding, costing around £90,000, but as he is relatively new in the job sources suggest he wants to know specific details of where the investigation is going and how close the Yard is to solving the mystery.
Mr Penning’s predecessor, Brandon Lewis, was fully supportive of the Yard’s efforts and was well briefed on the case, but senior officers know they are now dealing with a new minister and will have to give a fuller account of how the Home Office’s £11million has been spent so far and why more money is needed.
While the funding issue will be addressed in the coming weeks, sources say Kate and Gerry McCann are impressed by the continued commitment of the Yard team, headed by Detective Chief Superintendent Nicola Wall.
Read more...
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/846274/madeleine-mccain-missing-police-search-scotland-yard-portugal-latest-news
So no official source for the funding story and senior SY detectives are now only, apparently, considering asking for more funding. You really couldn't make this up......oh wait !!
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Ah sources yet again.
Yet who is the source this time.
Mmm.
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Ah sources yet again.
Yet who is the source this time.
Mmm.
Time will tell.
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Metropolitan police asks for MORE money to continue its probe into disappearance of Madeleine McCann
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4862592/Met-police-asks-money-Madeleine-McCann-probe.html#ixzz4s17VWT40
If the police think continuing the search for Madeleine is a viable proposition ... I can't see the Home Office refusing.
I think there will be a wailing and gnashing of teeth though, not to mention frustration ... comments in the newspaper are being moderated in advance.
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Metropolitan police asks for MORE money to continue its probe into disappearance of Madeleine McCann
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4862592/Met-police-asks-money-Madeleine-McCann-probe.html#ixzz4s17VWT40
If the police think continuing the search for Madeleine is a viable proposition ... I can't see the Home Office refusing.
I think there will be a wailing and gnashing of teeth though, not to mention frustration ... comments in the newspaper are being moderated in advance.
Indeed, more money which could be spent elsewhere on dwindling police funds.
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Indeed, more money which could be spent elsewhere on dwindling police funds.
You know ... or you should know ... money spent looking for the missing child does not come from policing budgets.
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The Mail on Line article? It seems we have heard it all before.
A literary agglomeration?
Well literary is maybe stretching a point.
Have we reached the end of the 195 investigative opportunities yet?
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You know ... or you should know ... money spent looking for the missing child does not come from policing budgets.
The money comes from tax payers.
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The money comes from tax payers.
True but I don't mind my tax being spent looking for any missing child.
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True but I don't mind my tax being spent looking for any missing child.
Would you like to supply a list of them in the UK, and how much public funding they have received to look for them ?
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Would you like to supply a list of them in the UK, and how much public funding they have received to look for them ?
No Stephen, I have no idea .
I just don't mind how much of the tax I pay goes to pay for looking for any missing child.
Now how much of the tax I pay goes to pay for the refurbishment of Buckingham Palace is of much more concern to me.
Perhaps a new thread elsewhere?
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No Stephen, I have no idea .
I just don't mind how much of the tax I pay goes to pay for looking for any missing child.
Now how much of the tax I pay goes to pay for the refurbishment of Buckingham Palace is of much more concern to me.
Perhaps a new thread elsewhere?
I certainly agree with your latter sentence.
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http://news.sky.com/story/madeleine-mccann-set-to-be-extended-as-police-ask-for-more-funds-11024595
From the sky article.
Early ideas about sex predators, child traffickers and "a burglary gone wrong" were largely dismissed before both detective teams joined forces to focus on the latest theory.
Kind of rules out third party involvement doesn't it?
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http://news.sky.com/story/madeleine-mccann-set-to-be-extended-as-police-ask-for-more-funds-11024595
From the sky article.
Kind of rules out third party involvement doesn't it?
No. There are other scenarios involving third parties.
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No. There are other scenarios involving third parties.
Credible ones?
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http://news.sky.com/story/madeleine-mccann-set-to-be-extended-as-police-ask-for-more-funds-11024595
From the sky article.
Kind of rules out third party involvement doesn't it?
I found this bit significant:
"The money they are asking for is unlikely to be a large amount, effectively enough to keep a small number of detectives - three or four - on little more than a watching brief".
That kind of boots out any theory involving a "significant lead".
So what's coming up ? a thunderflash or a damp squib?
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I found this bit significant:
"The money they are asking for is unlikely to be a large amount, effectively enough to keep a small number of detectives - three or four - on little more than a watching brief".
That kind of boots out any theory involving a "significant lead".
So what's coming up ? a thunderflash or a damp squib?
IMO it means whatever is going to happen will happen outside the UK - which rules out the McCanns. Phone & computer records are probably key.
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IMO it means whatever is going to happen will happen outside the UK - which rules out the McCanns. Phone & computer records are probably key.
That rules out professionals then.
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That rules out professionals then.
Why? Communication could have been via the dark web - inaccessible to the police then but cracked by the experts of present day.
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Credible ones?
Bump for misty.
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Bump for misty.
Sorry, didn't see it before.
Taken to replace a missing child.
Straightforward kidnapping which was bottled due to intense media presence.
Azureblue's theory or something very similar.
None of those scenarios involve sexual predators,traffickers or burglars.
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Why? Communication could have been via the dark web - inaccessible to the police then but cracked by the experts of present day.
No need to look at phone records then.
I understand Jim Caviezel and Mark Harmon wish to star in the TV version.
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Only a team of 4 have been working on this case for the last two years. They are working with the PJ on the one final lead so they should receive the funding to complete it.
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Sorry, didn't see it before.
Taken to replace a missing child.
Straightforward kidnapping which was bottled due to intense media presence.
Azureblue's theory or something very similar.
None of those scenarios involve sexual predators,traffickers or burglars.
In that case then OG are jumping from pillar to post with Rowley not entirely ruling out the burglary gone wrong theory only as recently as April.
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In that case then OG are jumping from pillar to post with Rowley not entirely ruling out the burglary gone wrong theory only as recently as April.
Real life investigations unlike the fly in aspic one favoured by some ~ progress as the investigation progresses. Nothing is ever set in tablets of stone.
If the police are asking for money they obviously consider they need it to continue their active investigation ... I for one do not visualise them "jumping from pillar to post" ... I visualise them following a definite line of inquiry.
All in my opinion but all a matter of common sense too.
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Sorry, didn't see it before.
Taken to replace a missing child.
Straightforward kidnapping which was bottled due to intense media presence.
Azureblue's theory or something very similar.
None of those scenarios involve sexual predators,traffickers or burglars.
Surely if a couple was looking to replace a missing child ( though I don't recall this ever happening from an apartment while the parents were out ) they would have taken Amalie rather than Madeleine, who could tell people who she really was ?
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Real life investigations unlike the fly in aspic one favoured by some ~ progress as the investigation progresses. Nothing is ever set in tablets of stone.
If the police are asking for money they obviously consider they need it to continue their active investigation ... I for one do not visualise them "jumping from pillar to post" ... I visualise them following a definite line of inquiry.
All in my opinion but all a matter of common sense too.
If they had anything of substance there would have been arrests long ago. I've never ever heard of a proper police investigation by proxy. The entire thing is a sham imo.
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If they had anything of substance there would have been arrests long ago. I've never ever heard of a proper police investigation by proxy. The entire thing is a sham imo.
Doesn't it occur to you that they may know where she is ... but they may be unable to get to her? In my opinion it is certainly one option.
I have never assumed any police investigation to be a 'sham'. I think there is always a beginning - a middle - and an end. Sometimes a good one sometimes a not so good one.
These guys are doing a job; I think it is wrong to denigrate what they are doing while they are doing it.
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Police in the UK don't formally archive unsolved cases as happens in Portugal, they just leave them open. Any costs in connection to that will come from existing budgets.
Operation Grange isn't covered by existing budgets so any costs related to keeping it open will need to be provided by the Home Office.
My opinion is that the funds applied for and granted recently are more likely to be for the costs of keeping the case open rather than to cover active investigation. If a similar sum is applied for and granted my opinion will remain the same.
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Police in the UK don't formally archive unsolved cases as happens in Portugal, they just leave them open. Any costs in connection to that will come from existing budgets.
Operation Grange isn't covered by existing budgets so any costs related to keeping it open will need to be provided by the Home Office.
My opinion is that the funds applied for and granted recently are more likely to be for the costs of keeping the case open rather than to cover active investigation. If a similar sum is applied for and granted my opinion will remain the same.
You are arguing with yourself in my opinion- on the one hand you state that any cold case costs are met within existing police budgets
- on the other you opine that Madeleine's case is a cold case which requires Home Office money
In my opinion one statement is incompatible with the other and makes no sense.
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You are arguing with yourself in my opinion- on the one hand you state that any cold case costs are met within existing police budgets
- on the other you opine that Madeleine's case is a cold case which requires Home Office money
In my opinion one statement is incompatible with the other and makes no sense.
It is tax payers money, sequested by others.
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You are arguing with yourself in my opinion- on the one hand you state that any cold case costs are met within existing police budgets
- on the other you opine that Madeleine's case is a cold case which requires Home Office money
In my opinion one statement is incompatible with the other and makes no sense.
Really? You can't see the difference between cases falling within the jurisdiction of the Met police and therefore funded via the normal channels and the McCann case which is not within their jurisdiction and is therefore funded seperately?
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Doesn't it occur to you that they may know where she is ... but they may be unable to get to her? In my opinion it is certainly one option.
I have never assumed any police investigation to be a 'sham'. I think there is always a beginning - a middle - and an end. Sometimes a good one sometimes a not so good one.
These guys are doing a job; I think it is wrong to denigrate what they are doing while they are doing it.
We had enough of that with the denigration of a Portuguese police force, didn't we?
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We had enough of that with the denigration of a Portuguese police force, didn't we?
I feel a George Mparrbe style response heading your way ?{)(**
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Really? You can't see the difference between cases falling within the jurisdiction of the Met police and therefore funded via the normal channels and the McCann case which is not within their jurisdiction and is therefore funded seperately?
A cold case is a cold case ... and one cold case is equal to another. The Scotland Yard case is under British jurisdiction.
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A cold case is a cold case ... and one cold case is equal to another. The Scotland Yard case is under British jurisdiction.
There's no such thing as 'British' jurisdiction as far as I know. Please be more specific (cites would be a help).
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With yet another request for funding, one has to wonder just how long the funding will go on with nothing to show for it.
I do know that some 'sceptics' believe that SY are looking at all aspects of the case, but i very much doubt that myself.
So here is the latest from the Portugal Resident......
"Fresh boost for Kate and Gerry”
as Met requests more funding for Maddie investigation
Social media is once more in meltdown over news that the Metropolitan Police search for closure in the Madeleine McCann case is likely to get even more taxpayers’ money, despite having spent over £11 million in the last six years.
Outrage over the continued funding has been a constant since Scotland Yard’s Operation Grange started running up its huge bill.
But according to mainstream reports while this can no longer be termed the ‘final throw of the dice’ - as that was reported nine months ago (click here) - “hopes are growing” that police are ‘finally closing in on Madeleine’s kidnapper’, over 10 years since the little girl went missing during a family holiday in Praia da Luz.
Breaking the news - and refraining from allowing readers’ comments this time (click here) - the Sun reports that: “Police searching for Madeleine McCann have requested more funding to keep the investigation alive”, and that the missing child’s parents “are hoping, naturally” that it will be granted.
The family’s spokesman Clarence Mitchell adds that Kate and Gerry McCann are “extremely grateful” for the new bid for cash.
If not forthcoming, Grange “could shut down in as little as three weeks time”, the Sun explains.
No reference is made in the text to the Sun’s own report (in March) describing television viewer ‘meltdown’ over the last £85,000 tranche of funding.
A debate on ‘Good Morning Britain’ saw “ex-top cop” Sue Hill say it was time “to put sentiment aside” and say ‘enough is enough’ “knowing how many undetected murders there are in London…”
Said the Sun: “Viewers were left furious as it emerged the investigation has cost more than £11 million so far”.
Since then, voices have continued to decry the focus on simply one missing child.
Only last week, the mother of a teen missing for 20 years slammed the way her agony has been given short shrift whereas the search for Madeleine continues to receive massive publicity.
And dissenting views from the ranks of former police are also apparent.
Former ‘top cop’ Colin Sutton - already renowned for claiming Grange has its hands tied with regard to what police can investigate - has told the Resident that from what he has “been able to establish” the probe is “neither a review or a re-investigation but a thematic, restricted investigation into one (the abduction) hypothesis.
“If that is still its aim - and I have no reason to suspect it is not - then I do not think it should be funded further”, he added.
This is the gist of commentaries that have followed reports of the Met’s latest request.
Twitter is awash with indignation, while all the blogs and fora are abuzz.
The consensus nonetheless remains that if Grange was to see its remit widened - “to examine any and all hypotheses” - pretty much all the fury would dissipate.
Campaigning group The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann has written as much to prime minister Theresa May (click here), and Colin Sutton also told us he would support an unfettered probe - adding that he thinks the chances of one being sanctioned are “pretty unlikely”.
As to the progress being made by Grange, the news remains customarily vague. It is “one final line of enquiry”, says the Sun, while the Telegraph adds that the Home Office has confirmed that the Met’s application will be considered.
natasha.donn@algarveresident.com
http://portugalresident.com/fresh-boost-for-kate-and-gerry%E2%80%9D-as-met-requests-more-funding-for-maddie-investigation
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The drawback with the 'widening the remit' argument is that it would cost several million more.
If so much has been spent on reviewing and investigating only the abduction scenario, how much more time and money would be required to do a fuller investigation? Certainly not going to be solved by 3 detective constables and a sergeant in a couple of months.
If, on the other hand, a wider remit has been pursued from the start, who knows what the final outcome might be.
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The drawback with the 'widening the remit' argument is that it would cost several million more.
If so much has been spent on reviewing and investigating only the abduction scenario, how much more time and money would be required to do a fuller investigation? Certainly not going to be solved by 3 detective constables and a sergeant in a couple of months.
If, on the other hand, a wider remit has been pursued from the start, who knows what the final outcome might be.
One day Jassi, then maybe not.
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I am eternally optimistic that one day we will have the truth.
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I am eternally optimistic that one day we will have the truth.
We shall see.
I also note B-Smith has posted something of a contentious blog, though I believe he is supportive of SY's investigation.
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We shall see.
I also note B-Smith has posted something of a contentious blog, though I believe he is supportive of SY's investigation.
Who?
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Who?
Blacksmith, writes an interesting Blog that has not been sued though some claim it is libellous.
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The part I fail to understand is why this case? Why are so many resources being exhausted on this case when there are so many others being completely ignored? Is there some deeply hidden agenda here with SY?
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The part I fail to understand is why this case? Why are so many resources being exhausted on this case when there are so many others being completely ignored? Is there some deeply hidden agenda here with SY?
I think it was the result of weak leader allowing himself to be shanghaied against the advice of his Home Sec and the head of the MPS. Now who wants to be the one to draw fire by stopping the money to help desolate parents?
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Blacksmith, writes an interesting Blog that has not been sued though some claim it is libellous.
Thank you Slarti, I have just read it. It is pretty hard hitting.
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The part I fail to understand is why this case? Why are so many resources being exhausted on this case when there are so many others being completely ignored? Is there some deeply hidden agenda here with SY?
Going by the amounts asked for each half year amounting to roughly £190,000 per annum,since the slimming down in October 2015, its clear the vast amount of the £11+ million was spent prior to that,the £95,000 per six months is now small fry in what must be a huge HO budget,its the fact it leads nowhere should be the concern.
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I hadn't realised it was now 2 years since the slim down. That must be most of Nicola's tenure.
Perhaps she realised that all that manpower was pretty much a waste of resources.
The question is what have the remaining 4 been doing for the past 2 years ?
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I hadn't realised it was now 2 years since the slim down. That must be most of Nicola's tenure.
Perhaps she realised that all that manpower was pretty much a waste of resources.
The question is what have the remaining 4 been doing for the past 2 years ?
According to the report linked by Barrier on another thread "assisting the Portuguese".
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According to the report linked by Barrier on another thread "assisting the Portuguese".
Right. So presumably carrying out investigations in UK on behalf of PJ that they couldn't undertake.
Sounds interesting.
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Right. So presumably carrying out investigations in UK on behalf of PJ that they couldn't undertake.
Sounds interesting.
Indeed. As I recall there was one ILOR outstanding when DCI Wall took over, I don't think she raised any and she canned trips to Portugal [one trip since she took over?].
One or two things are for sure, whatever the MPS are doing they are not singing from the roof tops about it neither are those it is being done to.
Faites vos jeux ?{)(**
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I am eternally optimistic that one day we will have the truth.
I agree Jassi. AND I won't be shocked or surprised. BSmith is singing' He did the mash he did the monsta mash' knockout punch to the face.
Silence is golden they say, some claim to know why. More funding will only be given IF criteria can be met. They can't leave it as aan open case as it never did happen here in the UK. The PJ can re archive it though...
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There's no such thing as 'British' jurisdiction as far as I know. Please be more specific (cites would be a help).
Strange that you used the term yourself before your complaint about Brietta
Reply #56 on: September 08, 2017, 01:04:18 PM »
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I agree Jassi. AND I won't be shocked or surprised. BSmith is singing' He did the mash he did the monsta mash' knockout punch to the face.
Silence is golden they say, some claim to know why. More funding will only be given IF criteria can be met. They can't leave it as aan open case as it never did happen here in the UK. The PJ can re archive it though...
More files to go through yippee!
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Strange that you used the term yourself before your complaint about Brietta
Reply #56 on: September 08, 2017, 01:04:18 PM »
No I didn't;
Really? You can't see the difference between cases falling within the jurisdiction of the Met police and therefore funded via the normal channels and the McCann case which is not within their jurisdiction and is therefore funded seperately?
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So in the meantime DCI Wall is busy elsewhere,does this mean her wage is not part of the funding.
Det Ch Insp Nicola Wall, who is leading the investigation,
http://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/news/crime-court/nashon-esbrand-three-arrests-made-in-canonbury-murder-investigation-1-5183270?fref=gc&dti=1574795582764929
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So in the meantime DCI Wall is busy elsewhere,does this mean her wage is not part of the funding.
http://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/news/crime-court/nashon-esbrand-three-arrests-made-in-canonbury-murder-investigation-1-5183270?fref=gc&dti=1574795582764929
None of the police officers were permanently assigned to OG as far as I know. I imagine their time will be re-imbursed from the McCann case funds as and when they work on the case.
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No I didn't;
Really? You can't see the difference between cases falling within the jurisdiction of the Met police and therefore funded via the normal channels and the McCann case which is not within their jurisdiction and is therefore funded seperately?
As I understand it ... initially your reference was to 'closed' or cold cases any expenditure on which are carried by the police ... not to current active ones, particularly Madeleine's.
But have it your own way, you will anyway.
One can only hope they have enough to justify further funding to allow continuation of the case ... in my opinion I don't think they would have asked if they didn't have it.
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So in the meantime DCI Wall is busy elsewhere,does this mean her wage is not part of the funding.
http://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/news/crime-court/nashon-esbrand-three-arrests-made-in-canonbury-murder-investigation-1-5183270?fref=gc&dti=1574795582764929
According to the report you linked earlier her costs are covered elsewhere.
"A team of four officers will continue to work solely on the Grange investigation, funded by the Home Office".
Which fact adds grist to G-Units mill wrt funding requests.
According to MPS the salaries for three DCons and a DS is ca 180k pa. Work it out for yourselves 8(0(*
Looks like the Home Office are covering salaries but not overheads.
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As I understand it ... initially your reference was to 'closed' or cold cases any expenditure on which are carried by the police ... not to current active ones, particularly Madeleine's.
But have it your own way, you will anyway.
One can only hope they have enough to justify further funding to allow continuation of the case ... in my opinion I don't think they would have asked if they didn't have it.
They don't close cases unless they're solved, so all unsolved cases are cold cases. If new evidence comes in someone will assess it, file it, etc. as part of day to day tasks, with the cost being met from existing budgets.
Rowley has referred to the McCann case as a cold case. Either way, it's costs are paid outwith existing budgets because it's location is outside the jurisdiction of the Met, or even the jurisdiction of England and Wales.
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They don't close cases unless they're solved, so all unsolved cases are cold cases. If new evidence comes in someone will assess it, file it, etc. as part of day to day tasks, with the cost being met from existing budgets.
Rowley has referred to the McCann case as a cold case. Either way, it's costs are paid outwith existing budgets because it's location is outside the jurisdiction of the Met, or even the jurisdiction of England and Wales.
In your opinion ... or even better if you have a cite to substantiate what you are posting ... should Madeleine's case be taken to the stage where it can go no further ... under whose jurisdiction will any new evidence coming be assessed, who will the someone be who will assess it, file it, etc. as part of day to day tasks, with the cost being met from existing budgets.
Whose budget will meet those costs?
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In your opinion ... or even better if you have a cite to substantiate what you are posting ... should Madeleine's case be taken to the stage where it can go no further ... under whose jurisdiction will any new evidence coming be assessed, who will the someone be who will assess it, file it, etc. as part of day to day tasks, with the cost being met from existing budgets.
Whose budget will meet those costs?
That's a very interesting question. The official line is that Operation Grange are assisting the Portuguese with the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Whether that means that they have shared or will share all the evidence they have amassed with the Portuguese isn't known.
We will know if the case is re-archived in Portugal, but we won't necessarily be told by our secretive authorities what it's status is in the UK.
If funding of the case in the UK ceases then someone will no doubt make a decision about any new evidence arising.
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That's a very interesting question. The official line is that Operation Grange are assisting the Portuguese with the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Whether that means that they have shared or will share all the evidence they have amassed with the Portuguese isn't known.
We will know if the case is re-archived in Portugal, but we won't necessarily be told by our secretive authorities what it's status is in the UK.
If funding of the case in the UK ceases then someone will no doubt make a decision about any new evidence arising.
... and in my opinion a question you are singularly unable to answer.
It would probably now be a good idea to return to the thread topic for real ... the request for funding Madeleine's still active case.
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Have we any more news of future funding of the investigation?
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Have we any more news of future funding of the investigation?
Nothing yet,but by March 12th of this year the funding was announced for April through to September,so going by that it should have been announced by now.
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I guess Amber does have a lot on her mind at present.
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Nothing yet,but by March 12th of this year the funding was announced for April through to September,so going by that it should have been announced by now.
Thanks Barrier, that's what I thought.
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Just imagine what the three hundred and seventy million pounds which is going to be spent on Buckingham Palace could do elsewhere.
That's the cut I would make.
I suppose we can all pick and choose where we would like our money spent.
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Just imagine what the three hundred and seventy million pounds which is going to be spent on Buckingham Palace could do elsewhere.
That's the cut I would make.
I suppose we can all pick and choose where we would like our money spent.
Yes I agree with that cut as well as many others.
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The cost of the officers will be met whether they are "investigating" the disappearance or not,its just where the allocation will be booked out to imo,but its just a watching brief according to this article from SKY,possibly one person could do this why three or four?
http://news.sky.com/story/amp/madeleine-mccann-set-to-be-extended-as-police-ask-for-more-funds-11024595
The money they are asking for is unlikely to be a large amount, effectively enough to keep a small number of detectives - three or four - on little more than a watching brief.
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Just imagine what the three hundred and seventy million pounds which is going to be spent on Buckingham Palace could do elsewhere.
That's the cut I would make.
I suppose we can all pick and choose where we would like our money spent.
The government receives an income from the Crown Estates and spends 15% of it on the Sovereign Grant to fund the Royal Household. It will raise that percentage to 25% until 2027 to fund the refurbishment of Buckingham Palace, but still have 75% of it left to spend on whatever. None of your money is being spent on the project.
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Making the royals pay sounds like a good idea. Frees up money to find Madeleine.
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Making the royals pay sounds like a good idea. Frees up money to find Madeleine.
What about other cases Rob ?
Likewise, why don't the McCann's cough up, rather than the tax payer ?
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What about other cases Rob ?
Likewise, why don't the McCann's cough up, rather than the tax payer ?
According to the Tabloids, they have some 700 grand, so quite sufficient to fund proper detectives for a few years.
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According to the Tabloids, they have some 700 grand, so quite sufficient to fund proper detectives for a few years.
After they pay up what they owe, I wonder what will be left.
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What about other cases Rob ?
Likewise, why don't the McCann's cough up, rather than the tax payer ?
Probably they don't "cough up" for the simple reason victims of crime and their families are not expected to "cough up" to pay for police investigation into the crime in this country.
Madeleine's parents and immediate family are "tax payers".
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According to the Tabloids, they have some 700 grand, so quite sufficient to fund proper detectives for a few years.
Which tabloids might those be? All cites gratefully received.
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After they pay up what they owe, I wonder what will be left.
Different purses, surely?
They sued Amaral as private individuals, so having lost, should be personally liable for the outstanding costs.
The Fund money is separate and should be available for financing a search - ie detectives.
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Is there even the remotest possibility of bearing in mind that the thread title is -
"Maddie case funding. McCanns anxiously await news from Scotland Yard."
Please try to post something along those lines or expect your post to be deleted.
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Which tabloids might those be? All cites gratefully received.
How about this one ?
http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/life/798094/Madeleine-McCann-10-years-missing-Kate-Gerry-family-search
just below the last picture.
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Probably they don't "cough up" for the simple reason victims of crime and their families are not expected to "cough up" to pay for police investigation into the crime in this country.
Madeleine's parents and immediate family are "tax payers".
British Police forces don't normally investigate cases falling into the jurisdiction of other countries, to be fair.
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According to the Tabloids, they have some 700 grand, so quite sufficient to fund proper detectives for a few years.
If Amaral agreed to drop his claim for compensation no doubt all the funds could go to OG.
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If Amaral agreed to drop his claim for compensation no doubt all the funds could go to OG.
Which claim for compensation would this be ? Cite please, as Brietta will insist.
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How about this one ?
http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/life/798094/Madeleine-McCann-10-years-missing-Kate-Gerry-family-search
just below the last picture.
Thank you ... please remember to add cites when required. There should also have been a caveat accompanying your opinion about £700,000 and the time and personnel that would employ. Please remember that in future too.
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Off topic posts will be deleted.
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Probably they don't "cough up" for the simple reason victims of crime and their families are not expected to "cough up" to pay for police investigation into the crime in this country.
Madeleine's parents and immediate family are "tax payers".
You seem to have omitted they owe money in Portugal.
That won't disappear.
Besides, why shouldn't they pay for what they did wrong. Why should others pay for thrir failures ?
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You seem to have omitted they owe money in Portugal.
That won't disappear.
Besides, why shouldn't they pay for what they did wrong. Why should others pay for thrir failures ?
Why should any of us have to foot the bill for the shortcomings or wrongdoings of others? Answer - because we are human and not one of us is above reproach.
SY will no doubt get their funding if the end of the case is nigh.
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Why should any of us have to foot the bill for the shortcomings or wrongdoings of others? Answer - because we are human and not one of us is above reproach.
SY will no doubt get their funding if the end of the case is nigh.
Have you never heard of taking responsibilty for your own actions.
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Have you never heard of taking responsibilty for your own actions.
Yes - but who takes responsibility for the actions of the unknown wrongdoers?
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Yes - but who takes responsibility for the actions of the unknown wrongdoers?
Most people would admit their share of responsibility.
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Most people would admit their share of responsibility.
Well how come there is so much unsolved crime?
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Well how come there is so much unsolved crime?
I can't believe you have asked that question.
Do you have any idea of the percentage of reported crimes that are unsolved, not even crimes which are unreported ?
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Well how come there is so much unsolved crime?
Who said anything about crime?
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I can't believe you have asked that question.
Do you have any idea of the percentage of reported crimes that are unsolved, not even crimes which are unreported ?
is it 50%? Look my remark has to be read in conjunction with the preceding comment
Most people would admit their share of responsibility.
Who said anything about crime?
I did.
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Look up the stats Rob, for the UK or anywhere else.
In this country there are diminishing police resources. Try not to believe the blurb of the politicians who say otherwise.
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Look up the stats Rob, for the UK or anywhere else.
In this country there are diminishing police resources. Try not to believe the blurb of the politicians who say otherwise.
I don't understand what you are getting at sorry.
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I don't understand what you are getting at sorry.
It's really easy.
Look up the stats for the percentage of recorded crimes solved.
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It's really easy.
Look up the stats for the percentage of recorded crimes solved.
The MET claim that 95% of murders are solved, I was watching a true crime series earlier in the year involving them,it was said that they normally have a suspect with in 48hrs after that it became harder to solve.
Haven't a cite for the tv prog but heres one for some figures.
http://www.itv.com/news/london/2016-01-24/london-murder-rate-up-14-over-the-past-year/
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It's really easy.
Look up the stats for the percentage of recorded crimes solved.
Even if I knew the figures exactly it would not answer the question.
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It's really easy.
Look up the stats for the percentage of recorded crimes solved.
The percentage for resolving an alleged abduction abroad remains a big fat zero.
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Most people would admit their share of responsibility.
They already have IMO - when they put a huge amount of money, which they could have put into their own private bank accounts, into the fund instead.
i.e
Their compensation for being libelled in the press.
Kate's earnings from her book.
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They already have IMO - when they put a huge amount of money, which they could have put into their own private bank accounts, into the fund instead.
i.e
Their compensation for being libelled in the press.
Kate's earnings from her book.
A book which would never have been written, but for what they failed to do in keeping their daughter safe.
If you think anyone should make money from this case Rob, I am surprised.
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A book which would never have been written, but for what they failed to do in keeping their daughter safe.
If you think anyone should make money from this case Rob, I am surprised.
What has that got to do with the fact that the book was written and the proceeds went into the fund and not into Kate's own bank account. Or that the libel compensation was also put into the fund?
Do you apply the same criticism to the parents of other children who have been abducted and have subsequently written books about it - or is it just the McCanns?
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What has that got to do with the fact that the book was written and the proceeds went into the fund and not into Kate's own bank account. Or that the libel compensation was also put into the fund?
Do you apply the same criticism to the parents of other children who have been abducted and have subsequently written books about it - or is it just the McCanns?
We do not know she was abducted.
...and NO, I do not approve of anyone making money in such circumstances.
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What has that got to do with the fact that the book was written and the proceeds went into the fund and not into Kate's own bank account. Or that the libel compensation was also put into the fund?
Do you apply the same criticism to the parents of other children who have been abducted and have subsequently written books about it - or is it just the McCanns?
Oh, by the way, how much of that 'money' was then used against Amaral ?
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Oh, by the way, how much of that 'money' was then used against Amaral ?
I have no idea. You tell me.
As far as I am concerned any money spent on trying to protect Madeleine's right to be searched for as a living missing person and not dismissed as a dead person is a perfectly acceptable use of the fund.
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I have no idea. You tell me.
As far as I am concerned any money spent on trying to protect Madeleine's right to be searched for as a living missing person and not dismissed as a dead person is a perfectly acceptable use of the fund.
Can you then tell me how much of the fund has been spent on 'searching' ?
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Can you then tell me how much of the fund has been spent on 'searching' ?
Still waiting for you to tell me... '' how much of that money was used against Amaral''
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Still waiting for you to tell me... '' how much of that money was used against Amaral''
You ask questions Benice, but when do you answer mine ?
As to how much they used on Amaral, I am sure we will find out, along with Duarte's and her teams fees.
After all, we were told the funds accounts would be open and transparent. 8(0(*
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You ask questions Benice, but when do you answer mine ?
As to how much they used on Amaral, I am sure we will find out, along with Duarte's and her teams fees.
After all, we were told the funds accounts would be open and transparent. 8(0(*
The usual tit for tat response. So no surprises there.
Your post has nothing to do with my opinion that the McCanns have already demonstrated their 'share of responsibility' by putting hundreds of thousands of pounds of their own money into the fund.
IMO - your answer to that seems to be to post unassociated or unanswerable questions of your own in order to deflect discussion away from that fact.
Do you agree that the McCanns have made massive contributions of their own money to the fund or not?
AIMHO
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The usual tit for tat response. So no surprises there.
Your post has nothing to do with my opinion that the McCanns have already demonstrated their 'share of responsibility' by putting hundreds of thousands of pounds of their own money into the fund.
IMO - your answer to that seems to be to post unassociated or unanswerable questions of your own in order to deflect discussion away from that fact.
Do you agree that the McCanns have made massive contributions of their own money to the fund or not?
AIMHO
Can you think of anything original response other than tit for tat ?
As for deflection, that is precisely what you do, by never actually answering my questions properly.
Let's see proof of the McCann's putting their own money into the fund.
I don't count book, newspaper, magazine articles.
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Can you think of anything original response other than tit for tat ?
As for deflection, that is precisely what you do, by never actually answering my questions properly.
Let's see proof of the McCann's putting their own money into the fund.
I don't count book, newspaper, magazine articles.
Well if the compensation award for libel or the earnings from Kate's book was not their own money - whose money was it?
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Well if the compensation award for libel or the earnings from Kate's book was not their own money - whose money was it?
Is that the best you can do ?
None of that would have been awarded but for what happened in Portugal.
You evidently, are more than happy the McCann's made money, yet you and others criticize Amaral.
Have you read Enid O'Dowds analysis of the fund ?
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Is that the best you can do ?
None of that would have been awarded but for what happened in Portugal.
You evidently, are more than happy the McCann's made money, yet you and others criticize Amaral.
Have you read Enid O'Dowds analysis of the fund ?
As far as I am concerned the McCanns have already contributed a huge amount of their own money into the fund rather than put it into their own bank accounts. Unless you can prove they didn't - then that stands as an established fact. If you disagree then 'put up or shut up' as the saying goes.
It's obvious to me that you have no intention of admitting that fact - and so I shall leave you to carry on deflecting away from it - like there's no tomorrow.
AIMHO
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As far as I am concerned the McCanns have already contributed a huge amount of their own money into the fund rather than put it into their own bank accounts. Unless you can prove they didn't - then that stands as an established fact. If you disagree then 'put up or shut up' as the saying goes.
It's obvious to me that you have no intention of admitting that fact - and so I shall leave you to carry on deflecting away from it - like there's no tomorrow.
AIMHO
Your deflections Benice, know no bounds.
They wouldn't have received a penny from the courts, book, etc., but for what they did.
How you dare excuse that, is truly beyond belief.
IMHO, every time.
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Your deflections Benice, know no bounds.
They wouldn't have received a penny from the courts, book, etc., but for what they did.
How you dare excuse that, is truly beyond belief.
IMHO, every time.
always type after "/quote" Mate.
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Your deflections Benice, know no bounds.
They wouldn't have received a penny from the courts, book, etc., but for what they did.
How you dare excuse that, is truly beyond belief.
IMHO, every time.
LOL - the usual so predictable tit for tat response.
I see that despite my attempts to bring you back to it - you are still deflecting away like crazy from the fact that the McCanns have contributed a massive amount of their own money into the fund instead of putting it into their own bank accounts.
I have to go out now -
AIMHO
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LOL - the usual so predictable tit for tat response.
I see that despite my attempts to bring you back to it - you are still deflecting away like crazy from the fact that the McCanns have contributed a massive amount of their own money into the fund instead of putting it into their own bank accounts.
I have to go out now -
AIMHO
No it isn't money they've earned.
It's money on the back of the disappearance of their daughter, which I find despicable.
I.M.H.O. of course.
P.S. Just to remind you. I condemn anyone who has made money from this case. Any money from book receipts should have been given to charities.
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No it isn't money they've earned.
It's money on the back of the disappearance of their daughter, which I find despicable.
I leave you to our delusions.
I.M.H.O. of course.
P.S. Just to remind you. I condemn anyone who has made money from this case. Any money from book receipts should have been given to charities.
I assume your condemnation includes Amaral?
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always type after "/quote" Mate.
@)(++(*
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Do you know what ANYONE means ?
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Your deflections Benice, know no bounds.
They wouldn't have received a penny from the courts, book, etc., but for what they did.
How you dare excuse that, is truly beyond belief.
IMHO, every time.
What did they do which was different from their friends on holiday?
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I have said they are equally as bad.
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I have said they are equally as bad.
Which post are you responding to?
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Which post are you responding to?
The one before my last post.
So why, as you condemn Amaral from making money from his book, why won't you condemn anyone else including the McCann's ?
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Abrupt then!
No it wasn't obvious at all.
The McCanns put the money from their book into the fund.
Where is the money Amaral has made?
Does he have deserve to profit personally from the disappearance of a missing child?
I couldn't spend a penny of that tainted money, he has done nothing to deserve an increase in his personal bank account .
IMO.
Why not? Its only money.
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Abrupt then!
No it wasn't obvious at all.
The McCanns put the money from their book into the fund.
Where is the money Amaral has made?
Does he have deserve to profit personally from the disappearance of a missing child?
I couldn't spend a penny of that tainted money, he has done nothing to deserve an increase in his personal bank account .
IMO.
The money they made from their daughter's disappearance.
How can you not condemn that ?
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The money they made from their daughter's disappearance.
How can you not condemn that ?
You have objected to the McCanns using taxpayers' money to fund the continued search for Madeleine.
You have objected to them "making money" from their daughter's disappearance, which was designed to fund a search the original police force failed to conclude.
You have objected to them using money awarded for libellous media reports to fund a continued search.
You have objected to money donated by the general public, both rich & poor, to be used to fund a comtinued search.
Tell us, Stephen - if you want solely the McCanns to accept financial responsibility for what happened on May 3rd 2007, how do you suggest they raise & co-ordinate all the funding & actions required to FIND MADELEINE rather than also finding out who allegedly took her?
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You have objected to the McCanns using taxpayers' money to fund the continued search for Madeleine.
You have objected to them "making money" from their daughter's disappearance, which was designed to fund a search the original police force failed to conclude.
You have objected to them using money awarded for libellous media reports to be used to fund a continued search.
You have objected to money donated by the general public, both rich & poor, to be used to fund a comtinued search.
Tell us, Stephen - if you want solely the McCanns to accept financial responsibility for what happened on May 3rd 2007, how do you suggest they raise & co-ordinate all the funding & actions required to FIND MADELEINE rather than also finding out who allegedly took her?
Sell their house, and show they are really prepared to spend their own money, and not any made on the back of a disappeared daughter.
Now tell me Misty, how much of the funds money has been used to 'search'.
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Sell their house, and show they are really prepared to spend their own money, and not any made on the back of a disappeared daughter.
Now tell me Misty, how much of the funds money has been used to 'search'.
Metado 3 cost more than their house is worth. End of search. What would you suggest they do next - give up?
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Metado 3 cost more than their house is worth. End of search. What would you suggest they do next - give up?
When did the Mccanns last search ?
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When did the Mccanns last search ?
That is not the matter under discussion. Please answer the question in order to validate your objections.
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That is not the matter under discussion. Please answer the question in order to validate your objections.
£11,000,000 plus of UK tax payers money spent, not counting the Portuguese.
Nothing to show for it.
You already know what I think as regards the expectation of the Mccanns knowing Madeleine will be found. 8)-)))
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£11,000,000 plus of UK tax payers money spent, not counting the Portuguese.
Nothing to show for it.
You already know what I think as regards the expectation of the Mccanns knowing Madeleine will be found. 8)-)))
Yes, we know how much it has cost the UK taxpayer. Now, please tell us how the McCanns should have accepted sole responsibility to raise the equivalent funding & enable the search to continue to a successful conclusion.
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Yes, we know how much it has cost the UK taxpayer. Now, please tell us how the McCanns should have accepted sole responsibility to raise the equivalent funding & enable the search to continue to a successful conclusion.
Why not ?
After all this case started with their behaviour and inability to look after their children.
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Why not ?
After all this case started with their behaviour and inability to look after their children.
I'm waiting for you to tell us how they would acquire the necessary means & funding without using the sources you have expressed objection to.
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I'm waiting for you to tell us how they would acquire the necessary means & funding without using the sources you have expressed objection to.
How to other people deal with it Misty ?
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How to other people deal with it Misty ?
They don't have the means so when the police exhaust their inquiries very little, if any, further action is taken without fresh evidence. However, no UK citizen is refused police help because " it was their own fault ____ occurred". Why do you want the McCanns to be treated differently because the incident happened outside the UK?
ETA The very sad part is you do not realise that all the money being spent by the police is for Madeleine's benefit AND the pursuit of justice, not for the McCanns.
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They don't have the means so when the police exhaust their inquiries very little, if any, further action is taken without fresh evidence. However, no UK citizen is refused police help because " it was their own fault ____ occurred". Why do you want the McCanns to be treated differently because the incident happened outside the UK?
ETA The very sad part is you do not realise that all the money being spent by the police is for Madeleine's benefit AND the pursuit of justice, not for the McCanns.
They have had several years with nothing to show for it.
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They have had several years with nothing to show for it.
The investigation has not been closed yet so it is not factual to say there is nothing to show for it.
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The statement is correct. They have had several years and there is nothing to show.
Given several years more, they may have something.
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The investigation has not been closed yet so it is not factual to say there is nothing to show for it.
Again very straightforward questions.
Have they found how Madeleine disappeared ?
Have they determined her fate ?
How many times have we heard words to the effect, they are chasing the final lead ?
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Again very straightforward questions.
Have they found how Madeleine disappeared ?
Have they determined her fate ?
How many times have we heard words to the effect, they are chasing the final lead ?
Answers.
We don't know.
We don't know.
I don't know but perhaps you do.
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Answers.
We don't know.
We don't know.
I don't know but perhaps you do.
For the first two questions, they clearly don't know.
Even Rowley, said 'multiple hypotheses'.
As to the latter question, on multiple occasions.
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For the first two questions, they clearly don't know.
Even Rowley, said 'multiple hypotheses'.
As to the latter question, on multiple occasions.
I thought you wanted a precise answer.
We actually have no idea of what they know.
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I thought you wanted a precise answer.
We actually have no idea of they know.
If the case had been solved, it would be known, one way or the other.
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If the case had been solved, it would be known, one way or the other.
Still to be solved and I for one hope they are allowed to continue.
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Still to be solved and I for one hope they are allowed to continue.
...and if it continues to remain unsolved, as i predicted, just for how long should tax payers money be wasted for ?
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...and if it continues to remain unsolved, as i predicted, just for how long should tax payers money be wasted for ?
When NSY can no longer present reasons for it to be continued.
ETA.
I am on holiday. Just popped indoors to escape the heat.
May or may not be back later.
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When NSY can no longer present reasons for it to be continued.
ETA.
I am on holiday. Just popped indoors to escape the heat.
May or may not be back later.
Yet you know full well, police funding has substantially decreased.
There is also a great deal of waste of tax payers money in other areas, but that is a separate debate.
So why should funding continue here with nothing to show for it ?
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...and if it continues to remain unsolved, as i predicted, just for how long should tax payers money be wasted for ?
It will continue until politicians have the courage to say 'no more'
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It will continue until politicians have the courage to say 'no more'
Absolutely right Jassi.
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Absolutely right Jassi.
How would you suggest the McCanns fund a continued search if OG ends without resolution?
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How would you suggest the McCanns fund a continued search if OG ends without resolution?
Well, surely that was the fund was for.
Unless of course, it has all gone.
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If a multi-million police investigation hasn't come up with the answer, I can't see anything that the McCanns might subsequently do will achieve anything.
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Well, surely that was the fund was for.
Unless of course, it has all gone.
Maybe Goncalo and Tavares could top up the fund again on proviso it was passed on to OG.
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What a strange idea.
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Maybe Goncalo and Tavares could top up the fund again on proviso it was passed on to OG.
Why don't you then sell up your property, go rented and send the money to the fund. 8)--))
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Maybe Goncalo and Tavares could top up the fund again on proviso it was passed on to OG.
Why would they support a search which they see as pointless?
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Why don't you then sell up your property, go rented and send the money to the fund. 8)--))
Are you goading me now?
Why would they support a search which they see as pointless?
As a measure of goodwill.
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Are you goading me now?As a measure of goodwill.
That is what you appear to be doing in #180.
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That is what you appear to be doing in #180.
There must surely be a difference in goading a member and making a suggestion to Goncalo.
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There must surely be a difference in goading a member and making a suggestion to Goncalo.
No, I view your comment as goading.
He doesn't speak or write English.
Also, why would he contribute after what the Mccanns did to him ?
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No, I view your comment as goading.
He doesn't speak or write English.
Also, why would he contribute after what the Mccanns did to him ?
Making amends to the McCanns.
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Making amends to the McCanns.
They are the ones who should make amends.
They are responsible for initiating this case.
No one else has been found to be involved.
They tried to destroy Amaral.
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The topic of the thread is the police request for continued funding for the live investigation of the search for a missing little girl, who if she survives is now in her teens.
Please may we bear that in mind when posting,
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The topic of the thread is the police request for continued funding for the live investigation of the search for a missing little girl, who if she survives is now in her teens.
Please may we bear that in mind when posting,
If there is a request. Has it been confirmed?
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GOV.UK
Blog
Home Office in the media
Organisations: Home Office https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/home-office
Home Office in the media: 8 September 2017
Posted by: Home Office News Team, Posted on: 8 September 2017 - Categories: Leading stories
Today's news coverage includes reports that the Metropolitan Police has requested further funding for its investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Operation Grange
The Telegraph, Express, Mirror, Sun and Star report that the Metropolitan Police has requested further funding from the Home Office so that it can continue Operation Grange – the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. The papers note that over £11 million has already been spent on the investigation but its current funding is set to expire at the end of September.
The Home Office is currently considering an application from the Metropolitan Police for further Special Grant funding for Operation Grange. Our statement is below.
A Home Office spokesperson said:
The Home Office has provided funding to the Metropolitan Police for Operation Grange and the resources required are reviewed regularly with careful consideration given before any new funding is allocated.
Sign up for email alerts and follow us on Twitter.
Tags: Madeleine McCann, Metropolitan Police, Police, Top stories
https://homeofficemedia.blog.gov.uk/2017/09/08/home-office-in-the-media-8-september-2017/
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Worth a read.
The UK's counter-terrorism effort is putting an unsustainable strain on policing, the head of the National Police Chiefs' Council has said.
Chief Constable Sara Thornton said resources were being diverted from mainstream policing in England and Wales, leading to backlogs in control rooms and slower response times.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41356593
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Worth a read.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41356593
The point you are making is?
Are you recommending the police cut out all policing duties to concentrate all personnel and resources exclusively on counter terrorism?
Or is it only money to investigate Madeleine McCann's disappearance which is of interest to you?
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The point you are making is?
Are you recommending the police cut out all policing duties to concentrate all personnel and resources exclusively on counter terrorism?
Or is it only money to investigate Madeleine McCann's disappearance which is of interest to you?
Does every post have to be making a point,I was highlighting how the fight against terror is stretching the recourses of the police up and down the length of the country,with a request having been made for continual funding into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann,it can be easily be surmised how it would take some convincing of those who make the decision just where resources are to be channelled.
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It does suggest that every policeman is needed, even those four sitting in a room looking for Madeleine McCann. They may be funded from a different pot, but they are trained police officers who could help to ease the strain.
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We must also remember that this is not a British case. Portugal have their own investigation and whether or not SY get their funding I'm sure that will continue, until they feel there can be no more that can realistically be done.
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Does every post have to be making a point,I was highlighting how the fight against terror is stretching the recourses of the police up and down the length of the country,with a request having been made for continual funding into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann,it can be easily be surmised how it would take some convincing of those who make the decision just where resources are to be channelled.
It is a news item.
It doesn't mention Madeleine McCann.
You chose to post it on a thread entitled: Maddie case funding. McCanns anxiously await news from Scotland Yard. Entirely without qualification ... making it an off topic post.
Which that post still is ... and if deleted cancels out all subsequent posts making reference to it ... please bear that in mind when choosing to post off topic posts on a clearly designated thread set up to discuss something else entirely.
There are always choices on policing and Home Office budgets ... there are always choices on health service budgets ... at least have the courage of your convictions to open discussion by stating your intent.
An off topic link to terrorism doesn't really cut the mustard.
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It is a news item.
It doesn't mention Madeleine McCann.
You chose to post it on a thread entitled: Maddie case funding. McCanns anxiously await news from Scotland Yard. Entirely without qualification ... making it an off topic post.
Which that post still is ... and if deleted cancels out all subsequent posts making reference to it ... please bear that in mind when choosing to post off topic posts on a clearly designated thread set up to discuss something else entirely.
There are always choices on policing and Home Office budgets ... there are always choices on health service budgets ... at least have the courage of your convictions to open discussion by stating your intent.
An off topic link to terrorism doesn't really cut the mustard.
Whilst the HO have been asked for funding to continue the search into the mystery of M McCann,its clear from the article that resource's are stretched,it will of course have some bearing into whether additional funding will be forthcoming imo.
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Whilst the HO have been asked for funding to continue the search into the mystery of M McCann,its clear from the article that resource's are stretched,it will of course have some bearing into whether additional funding will be forthcoming imo.
Then it is my opinion that a post to that effect expressing your opinion is entirely satisfactory.
In my opinion it would be great if you continued to do that in preference to posting non connected off topic posts without comment attached.
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Whilst the HO have been asked for funding to continue the search into the mystery of M McCann,its clear from the article that resource's are stretched,it will of course have some bearing into whether additional funding will be forthcoming imo.
It is basically a cite for the entire thread.
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It is basically a cite for the entire thread.
Looking at the country's debt it is not an event worth pursuing there will be no ROI on this lil jobbie-no sir!
I don't believe for one minute they are waiting anxiously because they are busy with other things like; ECHR and such.
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Madeleine police ask for more funds.
(http://i.imgur.com/IHi1qHi.jpg?1)
Published 15-02-2018
Detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have applied for more funding for the search.
The Home Office confirmed that it is considering an application from the Metropolitan Police for more money to keep the probe, called Operation Grange, going.
A spokeswoman said: “The Home Office has provided funding to the Metropolitan Police for Operation Grange and the resources required are reviewed regularly, with careful consideration given before any new funding is allocated.”
Government funding for the investigation has been agreed every six months, with over €170,000 being granted from October last year until the end of March.
More than €12 million has been spent so far on the probe to find the missing girl, who vanished from the family’s holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in Portugal in May 2007, aged three.
Madeleine’s parents Kate and Gerry McCann, of Rothley, Leicestershire, have vowed never to give up hope of finding their daughter.
In 2011, the Met Police launched its own investigation into what had happened to the toddler.
http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/madeleine-police-ask-for-more-funds/44783
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If Scotland Yard were investigating all the criminality in this case their request for yet more funds could be justified but this is not what is happening. Operation Grange is working on the basis of a very narrow brief which will never expose all the dirty dealings. It's time these matters were questioned imo.
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If Scotland Yard were investigating all the criminality in this case their request for yet more funds could be justified but this is not what is happening. Operation Grange is working on the basis of a very narrow brief which will never expose all the dirty dealings. It's time these matters were questioned imo.
Ooo-er, sounds interesting.
Care to elaborate Angelo?
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If Scotland Yard were investigating all the criminality in this case their request for yet more funds could be justified but this is not what is happening. Operation Grange is working on the basis of a very narrow brief which will never expose all the dirty dealings. It's time these matters were questioned imo.
That's the job of the Pj not SY... Have you contacted them yet as you claimed you would
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That's the job of the Pj not SY... Have you contacted them yet as you claimed you would
Absolutely
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If Scotland Yard were investigating all the criminality in this case their request for yet more funds could be justified but this is not what is happening. Operation Grange is working on the basis of a very narrow brief which will never expose all the dirty dealings. It's time these matters were questioned imo.
Have Scotland Yard the authority to investigate these criminal activities if they are directly linked to the disappearance?
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Absolutely
Have you contacted them yet Angelo?
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Have Scotland Yard the authority to investigate these criminal activities if they are directly linked to the disappearance?
If they involve English nationals then yes.
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If they involve English nationals then yes.
Do they know it involves English or UK nationals or do they just suspect it could involve UK nationals?
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If they involve English nationals then yes.
Only if they were committed on UK territory, surely?
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Only if they were committed on UK territory, surely?
There are lots of examples of British nationals being prosecuted in the UK for crimes committed abroad.
“Where any murder or manslaughter shall be committed on land out of the United Kingdom, whether within the Queen's dominions or without, and whether the person killed were a subject of Her Majesty or not, every offence committed by any subject of Her Majesty in respect of any such case, whether the same shall amount to the offence of murder or of manslaughter, ... may be dealt with, inquired of, tried, determined, and punished...in England......”
https://www.ukpolicelawblog.com/index.php/9-blog/84-murder-abroad
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There are lots of examples of British nationals being prosecuted in the UK for crimes committed abroad.
“Where any murder or manslaughter shall be committed on land out of the United Kingdom, whether within the Queen's dominions or without, and whether the person killed were a subject of Her Majesty or not, every offence committed by any subject of Her Majesty in respect of any such case, whether the same shall amount to the offence of murder or of manslaughter, ... may be dealt with, inquired of, tried, determined, and punished...in England......”
https://www.ukpolicelawblog.com/index.php/9-blog/84-murder-abroad
It would depend what crime was committed then. I think it would also require the agreement of the judiciary of the country where the crime was committed.
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/jurisdiction
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There are lots of examples of British nationals being prosecuted in the UK for crimes committed abroad.
“Where any murder or manslaughter shall be committed on land out of the United Kingdom, whether within the Queen's dominions or without, and whether the person killed were a subject of Her Majesty or not, every offence committed by any subject of Her Majesty in respect of any such case, whether the same shall amount to the offence of murder or of manslaughter, ... may be dealt with, inquired of, tried, determined, and punished...in England......”
https://www.ukpolicelawblog.com/index.php/9-blog/84-murder-abroad
This is why SY stated what is in Brietta's tag. This will be investigated as if the crime was committed in the UK.. some people misunderstood this. So if UK nationals are involved in Maddies Disappearance then they will be arrested and punished. Simples...
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This is why SY stated what is in Brietta's tag. This will be investigated as if the crime was committed in the UK.. some people misunderstood this. So if UK nationals are involved in Maddies Disappearance then they will be arrested and punished. Simples...
Well, prosecuted, not necessarily convicted.
Difficult if you haven't determined that a crime took place
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Well, prosecuted, not necessarily convicted.
Difficult if you haven't determined that a crime took place
well actually people have been convicted even if a body has not been found! But I do get your point.
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EXCLUSIVE: The hunt for Madeleine McCann CONTINUES as Home Office approves Met Police’s request for cash to pursue a ‘final line of inquiry’ 11 years after youngster vanished
The Home Office allocated an unknown amount to the Met's Operation Grange
Detectives investigating the disappearance applied for more funding in February
More than £11 million has been spent so far on the probe to find the missing girl
The hunt for Madeleine McCann will continue after the Metropolitan Police Service was granted more funds to continue the 11-year-long search.
The Home Office revealed today that it had allocated further funds to the Met's investigation to hers disappearance - Operation Grange.
A representative said: 'The Government remains committed to the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
'We have briefed the Metropolitan Police Service that its application for Special Grant funding for Operation Grange will be granted.'
Detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann applied for more funding for the search in February.
Government funding for the investigation has historically been agreed every six months, with £154,000 being granted from October last year until the end of March.
More than £11 million has been spent so far on the probe to find the missing girl, who vanished from the family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in Portugal in May 2007, aged three.
The exact figure allocated for the ongoing investigation is not yet known.
Madeleine, three, vanished from an apartment in Praia da Luz in May 2007 while her parents were eating tapas with friends at a restaurant nearby.
She would now be nearly 15.
Operation Grange has been one of the longest, most high-profile and costly police investigations in history.
Launched in May 2011, officers have sifted (and translated) 40,000 documents produced by Portuguese police who conducted the initial investigation, and by the eight teams of private detectives who have worked on the case.
Some 600 'persons of interest' have been examined and 'sightings' of Madeleine — in Brazil, India, Morocco and Paraguay, on a German plane and in a New Zealand supermarket — assessed.
The Portuguese investigation of Madeleine's disappearance was criticised by the British authorities as being not fit for purpose.
Scotland Yard began an investigative review into the disappearance in 2011, on the orders of then-Prime Minister David Cameron.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5546721/The-hunt-Madeleine-McCann-CONTINUES-Home-Office-approves-Met-Polices-funding.html
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EXCLUSIVE: The hunt for Madeleine McCann CONTINUES as Home Office approves Met Police’s request for cash to pursue a ‘final line of inquiry’ 11 years after youngster vanished
The Home Office allocated an unknown amount to the Met's Operation Grange
Detectives investigating the disappearance applied for more funding in February
More than £11 million has been spent so far on the probe to find the missing girl
The hunt for Madeleine McCann will continue after the Metropolitan Police Service was granted more funds to continue the 11-year-long search.
The Home Office revealed today that it had allocated further funds to the Met's investigation to hers disappearance - Operation Grange.
A representative said: 'The Government remains committed to the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
'We have briefed the Metropolitan Police Service that its application for Special Grant funding for Operation Grange will be granted.'
Detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann applied for more funding for the search in February.
Government funding for the investigation has historically been agreed every six months, with £154,000 being granted from October last year until the end of March.
More than £11 million has been spent so far on the probe to find the missing girl, who vanished from the family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in Portugal in May 2007, aged three.
The exact figure allocated for the ongoing investigation is not yet known.
Madeleine, three, vanished from an apartment in Praia da Luz in May 2007 while her parents were eating tapas with friends at a restaurant nearby.
She would now be nearly 15.
Operation Grange has been one of the longest, most high-profile and costly police investigations in history.
Launched in May 2011, officers have sifted (and translated) 40,000 documents produced by Portuguese police who conducted the initial investigation, and by the eight teams of private detectives who have worked on the case.
Some 600 'persons of interest' have been examined and 'sightings' of Madeleine — in Brazil, India, Morocco and Paraguay, on a German plane and in a New Zealand supermarket — assessed.
The Portuguese investigation of Madeleine's disappearance was criticised by the British authorities as being not fit for purpose.
Scotland Yard began an investigative review into the disappearance in 2011, on the orders of then-Prime Minister David Cameron.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5546721/The-hunt-Madeleine-McCann-CONTINUES-Home-Office-approves-Met-Polices-funding.html
This is good news indeed. they must be near making arrests! I will swallow my own head if the person/s says they broke in through a window... drugged the children, hid while Gerry was admiring his daughter... all this will soon be given its own place in the comedy books
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If Kate and Gerry are involved with the disappearance of the daughter they take the cake in being happy that the investigation is continuing. I think if it was me and I'd done it I'd be making suggestions "that the current normality is accepted, we are a nuclear family of 4 not 5 but it is fine, I can live with that". And just let bygones be bygones.
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If Kate and Gerry are involved with the disappearance of the daughter they take the cake in being happy that the investigation is continuing. I think if it was me and I'd done it I'd be making suggestions "that the current normality is accepted, we are a nuclear family of 4 not 5 but it is fine, I can live with that". And just let bygones be bygones.
Clearly there is justification for continued funding ... therefore there is still work to be done on Madeleine's behalf.
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Clearly there is justification for continued funding ... therefore there is still work to be done on Madeleine's behalf.
There certainly seems to be. This is good news indeed.
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.
EXCLUSIVE: The hunt for Madeleine McCann CONTINUES as Home Office approves Met Police’s request for cash to pursue a ‘final line of inquiry’ 11 years after youngster vanished
The Home Office allocated an unknown amount to the Met's Operation Grange
Detectives investigating the disappearance applied for more funding in February
More than £11 million has been spent so far on the probe to find the missing girl
The hunt for Madeleine McCann will continue after the Metropolitan Police Service was granted more funds to continue the 11-year-long search.
The Home Office revealed today that it had allocated further funds to the Met's investigation to hers disappearance - Operation Grange.
A representative said: 'The Government remains committed to the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
'We have briefed the Metropolitan Police Service that its application for Special Grant funding for Operation Grange will be granted.'
Detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann applied for more funding for the search in February.
Government funding for the investigation has historically been agreed every six months, with £154,000 being granted from October last year until the end of March.
More than £11 million has been spent so far on the probe to find the missing girl, who vanished from the family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in Portugal in May 2007, aged three.
The exact figure allocated for the ongoing investigation is not yet known.
Madeleine, three, vanished from an apartment in Praia da Luz in May 2007 while her parents were eating tapas with friends at a restaurant nearby.
She would now be nearly 15.
Operation Grange has been one of the longest, most high-profile and costly police investigations in history.
Launched in May 2011, officers have sifted (and translated) 40,000 documents produced by Portuguese police who conducted the initial investigation, and by the eight teams of private detectives who have worked on the case.
Some 600 'persons of interest' have been examined and 'sightings' of Madeleine — in Brazil, India, Morocco and Paraguay, on a German plane and in a New Zealand supermarket — assessed.
The Portuguese investigation of Madeleine's disappearance was criticised by the British authorities as being not fit for purpose.
Scotland Yard began an investigative review into the disappearance in 2011, on the orders of then-Prime Minister David Cameron.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5546721/The-hunt-Madeleine-McCann-CONTINUES-Home-Office-approves-Met-Polices-funding.html
Fabulous news. 8@??)( Thanks PFinder
Can't wait for the finish of this case.
Do hope that they manage to find Madeleine as well as charge anyone involved in her disappearance.
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It would depend what crime was committed then. I think it would also require the agreement of the judiciary of the country where the crime was committed.
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/jurisdiction
Yes.
And, curiously, the definition of a British "subject" isn't a synonym for "national".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offences_Against_the_Person_Act_1861
We had a thread on this many moons ago...
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.Fabulous news. 8@??)( Thanks PFinder
Can't wait for the finish of this case.
Do hope that they manage to find Madeleine as well as charge anyone involved in her disappearance.
With any luck they might investigate all criminality associated with this case and especially that which occurred post disappearance.
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With any luck they might investigate all criminality associated with this case and especially that which occurred post disappearance.
That's a bit cryptic John... care to elaborate?
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That's a bit cryptic John... care to elaborate?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8538.msg427985#msg427985
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4719.msg166882#msg166882
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8164.msg402063#msg402063
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http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8538.msg427985#msg427985
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4719.msg166882#msg166882
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8164.msg402063#msg402063
And none of this hit the MSM here in the UK? wow. Yes this should be taken into consideration, and investigated.
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And none of this hit the MSM here in the UK? wow. Yes this should be taken into consideration, and investigated.
I pointed Mr Summers and wife in the direction of the Metodo/Correia shenanigans when he was writing his tome but he didn't seem particularly interested.
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Is there any any truth in the accusations.... Why has, amaral said nothing... Seems he was the one trying to discredit Correia
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Is there any any truth in the accusations.... Why has, amaral said nothing... Seems he was the one trying to discredit Correia
Correia managed that all on his own.
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Correia managed that all on his own.
And Marcos Correia won his case against him.
Poor old Amaral, he gets a lot wrong, doncha think ?
Why do you think he is so quiet, Angelo? Any ideas ?
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Correia managed that all on his own.
And amaral discredited himself too... I wonder why all his, assets are, still frozen.... Very strange
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And amaral discredited himself too... I wonder why all his, assets are, still frozen.... Very strange
Could it be the same freezer that MBM was kept in?
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And amaral discredited himself too... I wonder why all his, assets are, still frozen.... Very strange
Can you provide a cite for that?
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Can you provide a cite for that?
for which
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for which
Amaral’s assets being frozen.
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Amaral’s assets being frozen.
yes I can...it was on cmomm...and there was awhole thead on it
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Amaral’s assets being frozen.
as its a link to another forum its not allowed...rules you understand
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yes I can...it was on cmomm...and there was awhole thead on it
Does that thread have a cite?
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Does that thread have a cite?
it did..i provided a link at the time
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it did..i provided a link at the time
Can you provide it again...
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Can you provide it again...
not really because john removed it.....
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not really because john removed it.....
A cite to a newspaper article etc. Shouldn’t be a problem.
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And Marcos Correia won his case against him.
Poor old Amaral, he gets a lot wrong, doncha think ?
Why do you think he is so quiet, Angelo? Any ideas ?
I've noticed there's been no stories about who Operation Grange are chasing for some months. I wonder why they've stopped? I don't think there's been any more rumours since the one about Luisa Todorov. Silence all round, it seems.
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A cite to a newspaper article etc. Shouldn’t be a problem.
as I remember the last time I asked you for a cite you quoted a post by John...I have provided a cite for this claim and john has removed the link
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I've noticed there's been no stories about who Operation Grange are chasing for some months. I wonder why they've stopped? I don't think there's been any more rumours since the one about Luisa Todorov. Silence all round, it seems.
They obvioulsy have a lead...why do you think they should tell us....
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as I remember the last time I asked you for a cite you quoted a post by John...I have provided a cite for this claim and john has removed the link
Fair enough I accept it is just your opinion.
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Fair enough I accept it is just your opinion.
It's not my opinion... It's based on evidence
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They obvioulsy have a lead...why do you think they should tell us....
They've had a "lead" since Hogan Howes day's,wonder if its the same one.
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I've noticed there's been no stories about who Operation Grange are chasing for some months. I wonder why they've stopped? I don't think there's been any more rumours since the one about Luisa Todorov. Silence all round, it seems.
Yep the ridiculous stories of scouring Europe have fortunately taken its leave.
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Fair enough I accept it is just your opinion.
Post by Get'emGonçalo on 21.01.18 10:55
PeterMac has told me that Dr Amaral has still not been paid by the McCanns and that his assets remain frozen.
by Get'emGonçalo on 21.01.18 12:43
...... PeterMac is in regular contact with Mr Amaral. That's how I got this information.
Peter said: I guess they have to wait for the Court process to grind inexorably on, and are unable or unwilling to push too hard.
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Post by Get'emGonçalo on 21.01.18 10:55
PeterMac has told me that Dr Amaral has still not been paid by the McCanns and that his assets remain frozen.
by Get'emGonçalo on 21.01.18 12:43
...... PeterMac is in regular contact with Mr Amaral. That's how I got this information.
Peter said: I guess they have to wait for the Court process to grind inexorably on, and are unable or unwilling to push too hard.
Thanks.
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Post by Get'emGonçalo on 21.01.18 10:55
PeterMac has told me that Dr Amaral has still not been paid by the McCanns and that his assets remain frozen.
by Get'emGonçalo on 21.01.18 12:43
...... PeterMac is in regular contact with Mr Amaral. That's how I got this information.
Peter said: I guess they have to wait for the Court process to grind inexorably on, and are unable or unwilling to push too hard.
its very strange
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They obvioulsy have a lead...why do you think they should tell us....
I never thought they should or did tell us anything. The various rumours in the media came from elsewhere in my opinion.
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Amaral’s assets being frozen.
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/01/11/portugal.britain.madeleine.mccann/index.html
A Portuguese judge has granted an injunction against Amaral, freezing some assets,
All we need is a cite when "some" became "all" and "all" remain frozen.
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http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/01/11/portugal.britain.madeleine.mccann/index.html
A Portuguese judge has granted an injunction against Amaral, freezing some assets,
All we need is a cite when "some" became "all" and "all" remain frozen.
you are right of course...he still has the clothes he stands up in
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2010 that newspaper article. Hardly current.
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2010 that newspaper article. Hardly current.
alice posted it....its of little real relevance
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And Marcos Correia won his case against him.
Poor old Amaral, he gets a lot wrong, doncha think ?
Why do you think he is so quiet, Angelo? Any ideas ?
Perhaps he’s been asked not to talk in order not to prejudice any future trial ?
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Perhaps he’s been asked not to talk in order not to prejudice any future trial ?
Good point. Wasn't he planning writing about UK interference in the case? While the case is active he might be ordered to keep quiet, being an ex-PJ.
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2010 that newspaper article. Hardly current.
True but when else did anyone ask to have Sr Amaral's assets frozen and in what connexion ? I wasn't aware it was a regular or repetitive occurrence.
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Perhaps he’s been asked not to talk in order not to prejudice any future trial ?
r u serious.....have you forgotten about the book he wrote
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Good point. Wasn't he planning writing about UK interference in the case? While the case is active he might be ordered to keep quiet, being an ex-PJ.
..he has alraedy written a book...but if you and faith want to beleive such rubbish...so be it...par for the course
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r u serious.....have you forgotten about the book he wrote
But that was published after the case was archived.
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But that was published after the case was archived.
doesnt make a scrap of difference...having published the book there is no way the mccanns could get a fair trial in portugal....amaral has made a trial virtually impossible.....not that there would ever be one
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doesnt make a scrap of difference...having published the book there is no way the mccanns could get a fair trial in portugal....amaral has made a trial virtually impossible.....not that there would ever be one
Obviously that is you opinion for I've never seen that said by anyone else.
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Obviously that is you opinion for I've never seen that said by anyone else.
its quite obvious...the case was shelved...not closed
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its quite obvious...the case was shelved...not closed
I thought they said there needed to be new information to reopen the investigation. If it needed reopening surely it was closed.
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I have just seen this "https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/dad-missing-newcastle-man-writes-14463444#ICID=sharebar_facebook"
"Dad of missing Newcastle man writes to Government over 'unfair' Madeleine McCann search cash"
Big difference is one child is 31 when missing. At 31 you make your own decisions.
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Warning to all posters:
As we approach the Easter weekend I want to make it very clear that continued disruptive behaviour will NOT be tolerated, sanctions will be applied where necessary. As a sign of goodwill however ahead of the holidays, I am revoking all warning points.
Moderators are expected to lead by example but should those moderating skills fall short of what is expected, permissions will be revoked.
Have a great Easter everyone but please keep the above in mind before commenting.
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I have just seen this "https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/dad-missing-newcastle-man-writes-14463444#ICID=sharebar_facebook"
"Dad of missing Newcastle man writes to Government over 'unfair' Madeleine McCann search cash"
Big difference is one child is 31 when missing. At 31 you make your own decisions.
Sometimes. Did Claudia Lawrence choose to disappear?
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SY should come clean with anything significant they have in this case tho personally I doubt they have anything and this latest request for more public dosh is purely a mopping up exercise.
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Sometimes. Did Claudia Lawrence choose to disappear?
Who knows.
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SY should come clean with anything significant they have in this case tho personally I doubt they have anything and this latest request for more public dosh is purely a mopping up exercise.
Cross-border investigations are complicated enough without providing a running commentary to the media, particularly when one country is against such practices.
Re what may well be the last grant, what's the point of checking a pipe for leaks, if you don't also check the last 50 cms?
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Who knows.
Quite, but a large number of pounds spent on that investigation, even though it's never been more than a missing person inquiry
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Quite, but a large number of pounds spent on that investigation, even though it's never been more than a missing person inquiry
There are a number of criteria, presumably, that can assist the police to determine the difference between someone who's just decided to take off voluntarily and someone who hasn't. A problem can be the early stage where the situation isn't objectively clear. Police time can either end up being wasted, or a crucial period of time chasing up leads or evidence can be missed.
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Quite, but a large number of pounds spent on that investigation, even though it's never been more than a missing person inquiry
I didn't know the case myself so I listened to a documentary and they are certainly treating it more than a missing person inquiry from what I was being told. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IioQlYvtd80 "CLAUDIA LAWRENCE │ INTO THE COLD".
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THE mum of missing Ben Needham has hit out at the recent cash boost to extend the search for Madeleine McCann.
Venting her frustration on Loose Women, Kerry Needham said she had not received the same "magnitude" of support as Kate and Gerry McCann, who were promised extra funds to continue the search for their daughter earlier this week.
(https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/nintchdbpict000395326246-e1522263566744.jpg?strip=all&w=960)
Heartbroken Kerry Needham was comforted by the Loose Women panel as she spoke about the search for her missing son Ben
The 43-year-old said: "It hurts. It hurts us and it hurts me as Ben's mum.
"I'm not taking anything away from it at all - she deserves to be found but so does Ben and we haven't had a fraction of that help.
"I've had to fight alone as a single mum and tried to get the help that Ben deserves and that we deserve as a family.
"It did happen in the end but not to the magnitude that that case has had."
Ben disappeared during a family holiday to the Greek island of Kos in 1991.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5925734/ben-needhams-mum-questions-why-she-hasnt-had-more-cash-after-maddie-mccann-hunt-funding-boost/
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THE mum of missing Ben Needham has hit out at the recent cash boost to extend the search for Madeleine McCann.
Venting her frustration on Loose Women, Kerry Needham said she had not received the same "magnitude" of support as Kate and Gerry McCann, who were promised extra funds to continue the search for their daughter earlier this week.
(https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/nintchdbpict000395326246-e1522263566744.jpg?strip=all&w=960)
Heartbroken Kerry Needham was comforted by the Loose Women panel as she spoke about the search for her missing son Ben
The 43-year-old said: "It hurts. It hurts us and it hurts me as Ben's mum.
"I'm not taking anything away from it at all - she deserves to be found but so does Ben and we haven't had a fraction of that help.
"I've had to fight alone as a single mum and tried to get the help that Ben deserves and that we deserve as a family.
"It did happen in the end but not to the magnitude that that case has had."
Ben disappeared during a family holiday to the Greek island of Kos in 1991.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5925734/ben-needhams-mum-questions-why-she-hasnt-had-more-cash-after-maddie-mccann-hunt-funding-boost/
Sad indeed that there wasn't 24/24 online media coverage in 91. There wasn't even Google translate...
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SY should come clean with anything significant they have in this case tho personally I doubt they have anything and this latest request for more public dosh is purely a mopping up exercise.
There seems to be no published quantum for this new tranche of funding. Does anyone know if it is a significant sum or just another six months wages for the four officers left holding the fort?
According to Ye Olde Currant Bun: Earlier this week the Home Office confirmed Scotland Yard would get the funds to chase a "vital line of inquiry".
If that is right the plurality of leads quoted by Mark Rowley earlier this year ceases to be ....... *%87
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There seems to be no published quantum for this new tranche of funding. Does anyone know if it is a significant sum or just another six months wages for the four officers left holding the fort?
According to Ye Olde Currant Bun: Earlier this week the Home Office confirmed Scotland Yard would get the funds to chase a "vital line of inquiry".
If that is right the plurality of leads quoted by Mark Rowley earlier this year ceases to be ....... *%87
I read some time ago that there was one outstanding line of enquiry. I think I've posted with cites to that effect somewhere on here several times in the recent past, Alice.
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I read some time ago that there was one outstanding line of enquiry. I think I've posted with cites to that effect somewhere on here several times in the recent past, Alice.
I know.
Stephenson and Hogan -Howe both said single lines of enquiry.
Rowley said some or a few
Now the Sun says one.
The number of leads seems to be a very moveable feast.
Mesdames et Messieurs: Faites vos jeux.... 8(0(*
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There seems to be no published quantum for this new tranche of funding. Does anyone know if it is a significant sum or just another six months wages for the four officers left holding the fort?
According to Ye Olde Currant Bun: Earlier this week the Home Office confirmed Scotland Yard would get the funds to chase a "vital line of inquiry".
If that is right the plurality of leads quoted by Mark Rowley earlier this year ceases to be ....... *%87
Beat me to it, previously sums have been mentioned but not this time AFAIK.
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There seems to be no published quantum for this new tranche of funding. Does anyone know if it is a significant sum or just another six months wages for the four officers left holding the fort?
According to Ye Olde Currant Bun: Earlier this week the Home Office confirmed Scotland Yard would get the funds to chase a "vital line of inquiry".
If that is right the plurality of leads quoted by Mark Rowley earlier this year ceases to be ....... *%87
M Brunt likes to think he has his finger on the pulse,this was tweeted on the 26th.
Martin BruntVerified account @skymartinbrunt · 39m39 minutes ago
#Madeleine Home Office approves another six months of funding - around £150,000 - for Scotland Yard’s investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. The probe has cost more than £11m so far.
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I know.
Stephenson and Hogan -Howe both said single lines of enquiry.
Rowley said some or a few
Now the Sun says one.
The number of leads seems to be a very moveable feast.
Mesdames et Messieurs: Faites vos jeux.... 8(0(*
I don't read the Sun unless I can't help it.
It makes sense to me that they've whittled it down to the last few centimetres of a mysterious fault in a pipeline to be checked out.
It would be a bit dim to give up on that entire pipeline without having checked the whole length, wouldn't it?
Madeleine McCann: Investigators pursuing 'significant' lead
Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley describes the latest part of their investigation as a "critical piece of work".
10:29, UK, Thursday 27 April 2017
By Martin Brunt, Crime Correspondent
Police searching for Madeleine McCann have said they are pursuing a "significant line of inquiry" as the 10th anniversary of her disappearance approaches.
Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley told Sky News: "...Because it's worth pursuing it could provide an answer, but until we've gone through it I won't know whether we are going to get there or not.
"Ourselves and the Portuguese are doing a critical piece of work and we don't want to spoil it by putting titbits of information out publicly."
https://news.sky.com/story/madeleine-mccann-met-police-rules-out-its-four-official-suspects-10850920
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I don't read the Sun unless I can't help it.
It makes sense to me that they've whittled it down to the last few centimetres of a mysterious fault in a pipeline to be checked out.
It would be a bit dim to give up on that entire pipeline without having checked the whole length, wouldn't it?
Madeleine McCann: Investigators pursuing 'significant' lead
Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley describes the latest part of their investigation as a "critical piece of work".
10:29, UK, Thursday 27 April 2017
By Martin Brunt, Crime Correspondent
Police searching for Madeleine McCann have said they are pursuing a "significant line of inquiry" as the 10th anniversary of her disappearance approaches.
Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley told Sky News: "...Because it's worth pursuing it could provide an answer, but until we've gone through it I won't know whether we are going to get there or not.
"Ourselves and the Portuguese are doing a critical piece of work and we don't want to spoil it by putting titbits of information out publicly."
https://news.sky.com/story/madeleine-mccann-met-police-rules-out-its-four-official-suspects-10850920
I am not knocking what the two police forces are doing just the way it is reported and that some think they know better. Some of those of both flavours plus the press are guilty on that score.
The pipeline analogy is interesting; one would keep on until the fault was determined because determined it can be. In the MBM case there may be no answer after all exising leads are boxed off. [See Ann Noblet (1957) and Diane Jones (1983)].
p.s centimetres are a non preferred unit in our version of metric (SI).. 8(0(*
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I am not knocking what the two police forces are doing just the way it is reported and that some think they know better. Some of those of both flavours plus the press are guilty on that score.
The pipeline analogy is interesting; one would keep on until the fault was determined because determined it can be. In the MBM case there may be no answer after all exising leads are boxed off. [See Ann Noblet (1957) and Diane Jones (1983)].
p.s centimetres are a non preferred unit in our version of metric (SI).. 8(0(*
The case might well end up being shelved again, sadly. Even if it is, the wealth of information now presumably organised on a database should, in theory, make it much easier to consult if any new information comes in at a later date, and hopefully can be used to check if any suspicions of a link in the event of other cases (past, present or future) come to light.
There are still the sexual assault cases that don't appear to have been solved yet, for example.
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I don't read the Sun unless I can't help it.
It makes sense to me that they've whittled it down to the last few centimetres of a mysterious fault in a pipeline to be checked out.
It would be a bit dim to give up on that entire pipeline without having checked the whole length, wouldn't it?
Madeleine McCann: Investigators pursuing 'significant' lead
Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley describes the latest part of their investigation as a "critical piece of work".
10:29, UK, Thursday 27 April 2017
By Martin Brunt, Crime Correspondent
Police searching for Madeleine McCann have said they are pursuing a "significant line of inquiry" as the 10th anniversary of her disappearance approaches.
Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley told Sky News: "...Because it's worth pursuing it could provide an answer, but until we've gone through it I won't know whether we are going to get there or not.
"Ourselves and the Portuguese are doing a critical piece of work and we don't want to spoil it by putting titbits of information out publicly."
https://news.sky.com/story/madeleine-mccann-met-police-rules-out-its-four-official-suspects-10850920
So what happens if no fault is detected when you get to the end of the pipe ? Start all over again, or call it a day?
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So what happens if no fault is detected when you get to the end of the pipe ? Start all over again, or call it a day?
That pipe had had no burglary gone wrong in it,what other garbage needs clearing before the end is met,there will be no other metaphorical pipes if it really is the last last one.
Can't be much left according to this back in sept 17.
Early ideas about sex predators, child traffickers and "a burglary gone wrong" were largely dismissed before both detective teams joined forces to focus on the latest theory.
https://news.sky.com/story/madeleine-mccann-set-to-be-extended-as-police-ask-for-more-funds-11024595
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So what happens if no fault is detected when you get to the end of the pipe ? Start all over again, or call it a day?
Why was the pipe being inspected in the first instance? Routine safety check? or because there was an indication it was faulty?
In the first instance ... "PASS".
In the second ... evident fault which has to be located ... I would say, keep looking, and/or calibrate my inspection equipment.
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Why was the pipe being inspected in the first instance? Routine safety check? or because there was an indication it was faulty?
In the first instance ... "PASS".
In the second ... evident fault which has to be located ... I would say, keep looking, and/or calibrate my inspection equipment.
Slightly off topic but it has a kind of relevance,a twenty year old mystery remains just that,so when does an eleven yr old one get mothballed,it cannot continue ad infinitum surely
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5559267/New-Tricks-team-ex-police-officers-fails-solve-20-year-old-murder-girl.html
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Slightly off topic but it has a kind of relevance,a twenty year old mystery remains just that,so when does an eleven yr old one get mothballed,it cannot continue ad infinitum surely
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5559267/New-Tricks-team-ex-police-officers-fails-solve-20-year-old-murder-girl.html
All the while there is perceived to be a genuine lead to be pursued, the investigation will continue. It will not be closed until the case is solved or there is no other lead to pursue.
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All the while there is perceived to be a genuine lead to be pursued, the investigation will continue. It will not be closed until the case is solved or there is no other lead to pursue.
From the link I provided either the cold case team were super efficient in dealing with 10 new leads or after nigh on 7 yrs SY don't cut the mustard.
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From the link I provided either the cold case team were super efficient in dealing with 10 new leads or after nigh on 7 yrs SY don't cut the mustard.
Every case is different, you can't judge the success rate or otherwise of one by the other IMO.
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From the link I provided either the cold case team were super efficient in dealing with 10 new leads or after nigh on 7 yrs SY don't cut the mustard.
It doesn't matter how good the team is, if the answer doesn't exist within the material being examined, then they'll not find it.
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It doesn't matter how good the team is, if the answer doesn't exist within the material being examined, then they'll not find it.
Exactly,nigh on 7 yrs,multi millions spent ,access to laboratories, access to witness's and yet no evidence of an abduction,lest its forgot the brief was to "investigate an abduction as if it happened in the uk" ever wonder why?
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Exactly,nigh on 7 yrs,multi millions spent ,access to laboratories, access to witness's and yet no evidence of an abduction,lest its forgot the brief was to "investigate an abduction as if it happened in the uk" ever wonder why?
Have you received a personal briefing from Operation Grange out of interest?
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Have you received a personal briefing from Operation Grange out of interest?
I wish!
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Exactly,nigh on 7 yrs,multi millions spent ,access to laboratories, access to witness's and yet no evidence of an abduction,lest its forgot the brief was to "investigate an abduction as if it happened in the uk" ever wonder why?
Because the entire UK government, MI5, MI6, SOCA, Interpol, Europol, NASA, the NSA, nuclear energy giants and the pharmaceutical industry, possibly also the medical community involved in stem cell research or cloning had conspired to protect a couple of provincial doctors to thwart Amaral's investigation? Add to that the FSS, the INML, higher echelons in the PJ, the PT AG...
Have I missed anyone? Mossad or the former KGB, perhaps?
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Because the entire UK government, MI5, MI6, SOCA, Interpol, Europol, NASA, the NSA, nuclear energy giants and the pharmaceutical industry, possibly also the medical community involved in stem cell research or cloning had conspired to protect a couple of provincial doctors to thwart Amaral's investigation? Add to that the FSS, the INML, higher echelons in the PJ, the PT AG...
Have I missed anyone? Mossad or the former KGB, perhaps?
Can I just throw Porton Down into the mix, and some chemical weapons too please.
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Can I just throw Porton Down into the mix, and some chemical weapons too please.
Sorry, Vertigo. I missed that obvious clue.
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Can I just throw Porton Down into the mix, and some chemical weapons too please.
There's also the "fact" of political pressure due to the Treaty of Lisbon , which, as everyone is supposed to know, in fact wasn't actually about an update to the Maastricht Treaty (ah, we missed a Netherlands connection there, very suspicious), but about blackmail regarding allowing the VIP McCanns to return home in exchange for not annihilating /colonising Lisbon.
How are we doing?
We're missing a few lizard elites in all this.
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Because the entire UK government, MI5, MI6, SOCA, Interpol, Europol, NASA, the NSA, nuclear energy giants and the pharmaceutical industry, possibly also the medical community involved in stem cell research or cloning had conspired to protect a couple of provincial doctors to thwart Amaral's investigation? Add to that the FSS, the INML, higher echelons in the PJ, the PT AG...
Have I missed anyone? Mossad or the former KGB, perhaps?
Yet when you throw out all the conspiracy crap which is yielded by who just exactly? then its a simple old little abduction investigated just like it occurred in the good old uk,still nothing,despite the £millions and access to that I listed before,ever wonder why theres no sign of the elusive pimpernel.
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Because the entire UK government, MI5, MI6, SOCA, Interpol, Europol, NASA, the NSA, nuclear energy giants and the pharmaceutical industry, possibly also the medical community involved in stem cell research or cloning had conspired to protect a couple of provincial doctors to thwart Amaral's investigation? Add to that the FSS, the INML, higher echelons in the PJ, the PT AG...
Have I missed anyone? Mossad or the former KGB, perhaps?
There's also the "fact" of political pressure due to the Treaty of Lisbon , which, as everyone is supposed to know, in fact wasn't actually about an update to the Maastricht Treaty (ah, we missed a Netherlands connection there, very suspicious), but about blackmail regarding allowing the VIP McCanns to return home in exchange for not annihilating /colonising Lisbon.
How are we doing?
We're missing a few lizard elites in all this.
Can I just throw Porton Down into the mix, and some chemical weapons too please.
I suppose the silly season is upon us.
Before some see it as a slight against them,wiki has this to say about it.
In the United Kingdom and in some other places, the silly season is the period lasting for a few summer months typified by the emergence of frivolous news stories in the media
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Have you received a personal briefing from Operation Grange out of interest?
I wasn't aware one needed to have to form an opinion,but if its a requirement for posting then that about does it for the forum.
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Yet when you throw out all the conspiracy crap which is yielded by who just exactly? then its a simple old little abduction investigated just like it occurred in the good old uk,still nothing,despite the £millions and access to that I listed before,ever wonder why theres no sign of the elusive pimpernel.
As Jassi pointed out:
"It doesn't matter how good the team is, if the answer doesn't exist within the material being examined, then they'll not find it."
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8398.msg454660#msg454660
Either both the UK and the PT investigations are deliberately ignoring the possibility that the McCanns were involved, or they actually went over that possibility during the review stage prior to officially reopening the case.
It is of course possible that armchair sleuths need to introduce both professional police authorities to the concept of "clearing the ground under your feet".
Obvious pointers that neither police force had heard of the idea is that they weren't aware of fake EXIF data, nor that westerly rain-bearing winds would hit Faro before PdL.
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I suppose the silly season is upon us.
Before some see it as a slight against them,wiki has this to say about it.
Silly season used to be during the media-dead months of summer. The timing is now more elusive and there can be mini-silly seasons... with more opportunities to bury bad news. The month of May is often a good time as there are numerous public holidays during that month in some countries.
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I wasn't aware one needed to have to form an opinion,but if its a requirement for posting then that about does it for the forum.
You stated as fact that the investigation had found no evidence of an abduction. Are you now telling us that it is only your opinion that they haven't?
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You stated as fact that the investigation had found no evidence of an abduction. Are you now telling us that it is only your opinion that they haven't?
I'm sure some one will notify a kindly mod to add it to my post if needed.
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I'm sure some one will notify a kindly mod to add it to my post if needed.
I'm not interested in passing the buck to the mod to decide whether or not you were stating your opinion, I was simply asking you - opinion or fact?
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Exactly,nigh on 7 yrs,multi millions spent ,access to laboratories, access to witness's and yet no evidence of an abduction,lest its forgot the brief was to "investigate an abduction as if it happened in the uk" ever wonder why?
I wouldn't call that opinion or fact but rather a type of lament. "Woe is me the sky is falling"
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I wouldn't call that opinion or fact but rather a type of lament. "Woe is me the sky is falling"
Barrier says that the investigation has uncovered no evidence of an abduction. Is that a fact or opinion? If it is a fact then a simple cite will confirm it.
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Why was the pipe being inspected in the first instance? Routine safety check? or because there was an indication it was faulty?
In the first instance ... "PASS".
In the second ... evident fault which has to be located ... I would say, keep looking, and/or calibrate my inspection equipment.
You are having a laugh are you not?
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Barrier says that the investigation has uncovered no evidence of an abduction. Is that a fact or opinion? If it is a fact then a simple cite will confirm it.
The truth is we don't know what has been discovered by the more recent enquiry but I suspect it is very little to get excited about. My own view is that this case will not be solved until someone with genuine knowledge of what happened to Madeleine comes forward.
The police often rely on informers to solve these cases and I see nothing to suggest that won't happen here.
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The truth is we don't know what has been discovered by the more recent enquiry but I suspect it is very little to get excited about. My own view is that this case will not be solved until someone with genuine knowledge of what happened to Madeleine comes forward.
The police often rely on informers to solve these cases and I see nothing to suggest that won't happen here.
In the mean time it would be bloody helpful if armchair sloofs would quit sending in their rubbish in volumes of cr@p to be read over.
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Colin Sutton is non too impressed,so the press allege.
Madeleine McCann may NEVER be found in 'waste of money' search, top cop claims
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/693252/madeleine-mccann-maddie-met-police-missing-hunt-portugal-praia-da-luz-gerry-kate
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5958460/top-brit-ex-cop-says-finding-missing-madeleine-mccann-is-almost-impossible-and-warns-tot-could-be-buried-in-ancient-well/
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Colin Sutton is non too impressed,so the press allege.
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/693252/madeleine-mccann-maddie-met-police-missing-hunt-portugal-praia-da-luz-gerry-kate
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5958460/top-brit-ex-cop-says-finding-missing-madeleine-mccann-is-almost-impossible-and-warns-tot-could-be-buried-in-ancient-well/
I suppose we are entering 'rent a mouth' season again. No doubt we'll see more of these in the coming weeks,
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZ2bd2iX4AAN9Gc.jpg:large)
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZ2bd2iX4AAN9Gc.jpg:large)
That's why I added the caveat of "so the press allege".
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THE parents of Madeleine McCann have defended the new police cash boost to help find their daughter – and urged critics to “stop being armchair detectives.”
Kate and Gerry hit back after a top ex-cop said solving the Maddie riddle after nearly 11 years was “almost impossible”.
Former detective Colin Sutton, who turned down the chance of leading the Maddie inquiry, believes the girl is dead and her body buried in one of many ancient wells near Praia da Luz, Portugal, from where she vanished in May 2007.
He told an Australian documentary at the weekend that investigators faced a “thankless task” and insisted: “It’s almost impossible without specific intelligence that would allow you to focus on a specific area.”
So far the investigation, launched in May 2011, has cost the taxpayer more than £11.2million.
Last week former GP Kate, 50, and heart doctor Gerry, 49, of Rothley, Leics, were verbally attacked by the parents of two missing kids.
The mum of Ben Needham slammed the McCann’s on national TV.
Venting her frustration on Loose Women, Kerry Needham said she had not received the same “magnitude” of support as Maddie’s parents.
Kerry, 43, from South Yorks, whose son disappeared during a family holiday to the Greek island of Kos in 1991, said: “It hurts. It hurts us and it hurts me as Ben’s mum.
“I’m not taking anything away from it at all – she deserves to be found but so does Ben and we haven’t had a fraction of that help.
“I’ve had to fight alone as a single mum and tried to get the help that Ben deserves and that we deserve as a family. It did happen in the end but not to the magnitude that that case has had.”
A dad whose son has been missing for over two years hit out after the Home Office it was giving Scotland Yard’s Maddie inquiry, Operation Grange, an undisclosed sum to keep going for another six months.
As more funding to find Maddie – understood to be £150,000 – was announced Kate and Gerry were also targeted by furious dad Paul Whinham.
He has written to the Prime Minister to complain about the resources given to the seven-year probe which has already cost taxpayers £11.5 million.
Paul from Wallsend, Tyneside, whose son Michael disappeared from his home in Newcastle in November 2015, aged 31 said: “There’s people like me all over the country being told there’s no more the police can do and yet this one case gets all the money and attention.”
Paul revealed he penned his letter a few months ago, saying: “I wrote asking why all missing people weren’t being treated equally.
“The policing minister Nick Hurd wrote back to say that every enquiry gets the same treatment, but then goes on to say that when Theresa May was Home Secretary she set up a special unit to look for Madeleine McCann.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5962857/madeleine-mccanns-parents-kate-and-gerry-hit-back-at-critics-of-new-met-police-cash-to-track-down-missing-girl/
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Why has the actual amount of additional funding not been announced as it was in preceding ears ?
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Why has the actual amount of additional funding not been announced as it was in preceding ears ?
Perhaps this question could form the basis of an FOI request as I doubt anyone hear (sic) knows the answer.
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Why has the actual amount of additional funding not been announced as it was in preceding ears ?
You'll be hard pushed to find any info save the HO confirming its allocated a sum,nothing from SY to say they are pursuing a lead.
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You'll be hard pushed to find any info save the HO confirming its allocated a sum,nothing from SY to say they are pursuing a lead.
Even writing the final report takes time and money.
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Even writing the final report takes time and money.
This is from the HO.
https://homeofficemedia.blog.gov.uk/2018/03/27/home-office-in-the-media-27-march-2018/
A Home Office spokesperson said:
The Government remains committed to the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann (Operation Grange). We have briefed the MPS that its application for Special Grant funding for Operation Grange will be granted.
Any one care to bring anything from SY saying they are investigating a lead.
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Perhaps this question could form the basis of an FOI request as I doubt anyone hear (sic) knows the answer.
I doubt members know the answers to many of the questions that are asked on this forum, that doesn’t stop them asking them though.
As to FOI requests, that’s more of a supporter speciality.
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I doubt members know the answers to many of the questions that are asked on this forum, that doesn’t stop them asking them though.
As to FOI requests, that’s more of a supporter speciality.
It is? OK, if you say so. Perhaps a "supporter" will oblige you then.
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It is? OK, if you say so. Perhaps a "supporter" will oblige you then.
I do say so.
Interesting though the lack of information regarding the additional funding. It’s public money so why aren’t the public being informed as they have been on every other payment towards OG ?
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I do say so.
Interesting though the lack of information regarding the additional funding. It’s public money so why aren’t the public being informed as they have been on every other payment towards OG ?
No idea. Why do you think?
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No idea. Why do you think?
No idea either however I do think that the fact that the McCanns have not directly thanked OG or the HO for continuing to work on and fund the investigation into the disappearance of their daughter since 2015 is telling......or of course it could just be that they are ungrateful wretches.
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No idea either however I do think that the fact that the McCanns have not directly thanked OG or the HO for continuing to work on and fund the investigation into the disappearance of their daughter since 2015 is telling......or of course it could just be that they are ungrateful wretches.
Perhaps you could explain why this from the Official Find Madeleine Facebook page posted in September 2017 doesn't count?
"Kate and Gerry are extremely thankful to the Metropolitan Police for requesting extra funding.
They are very encouraged there remains work to be done that requires them seeking an extra budget. They are hoping naturally, it will be granted.
They are grateful to all those officers who are still working on the case and are actively looking for Madeleine.
They appreciate everything the police have done and are doing to get a resolution after all this time.
~ Clarence Mitchell, McCann Family Spokesperson
Does that really sound like the views of a pair of ungrateful wretches?
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Perhaps you could explain why this from the Official Find Madeleine Facebook page posted in September 2017 doesn't count?
"Kate and Gerry are extremely thankful to the Metropolitan Police for requesting extra funding.
They are very encouraged there remains work to be done that requires them seeking an extra budget. They are hoping naturally, it will be granted.
They are grateful to all those officers who are still working on the case and are actively looking for Madeleine.
They appreciate everything the police have done and are doing to get a resolution after all this time.
~ Clarence Mitchell, McCann Family Spokesperson
Does that really sound like the views of a pair of ungrateful wretches?
Yet when the extra funding was granted not a peep.
Why on their own Facebook page do the McCanns need to post a statement from their ( allegedly no longer ) spokesperson rather than simply thanking the Met themselves ? It’s almost as if they want to distance themselves from any kind of statement of gratitude. I wonder why that would be ?
As an aside the only awareness raising mechanism the McCann’s subscribe to, their Facebook page, has not had one mention of the child it was set up to find since December the 26th.
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Yet when the extra funding was granted not a peep.
Why on their own Facebook page do the McCanns need to post a statement from their ( allegedly no longer ) spokesperson rather than simply thanking the Met themselves ? It’s almost as if they want to distance themselves from any kind of statement of gratitude. I wonder why that would be ?
As an aside the only awareness raising mechanism the McCann’s subscribe to, their Facebook page, has not had one mention of the child it was set up to find since December the 26th.
Are you suggesting that the McCanns are "distancing themselves from any statement of gratitude" because they no longer have any trust in the investigation or indeed that they are concerned about the direction the investigation may be taking?
If you are wondering about this distancing , then you must have considered why?
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Are you suggesting that the McCanns are "distancing themselves from any statement of gratitude" because they no longer have any trust in the investigation or indeed that they are concerned about the direction the investigation may be taking?
If you are wondering about this distancing , then you must have considered why?
You can't deny that since 2015 there has been no direct 'statement of gratitude' from the McCanns with regard to any aspect of the investigation. I find that very strange.
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Yet when the extra funding was granted not a peep.
Why on their own Facebook page do the McCanns need to post a statement from their ( allegedly no longer ) spokesperson rather than simply thanking the Met themselves ? It’s almost as if they want to distance themselves from any kind of statement of gratitude. I wonder why that would be ?
As an aside the only awareness raising mechanism the McCann’s subscribe to, their Facebook page, has not had one mention of the child it was set up to find since December the 26th.
If they wanted to "distance themslves from any statement of gratitude " they would simply have instructed their spokesperson to remain silent, and certainly not allowed any statement of gratitude to appear on the Official Find Madeleine FB page. How do you know the McCanns have not thanked the Met themselves? Not everything they do is for the benefit of those who seem to follow their every public utterance obsessively.
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You can't deny that since 2015 there has been no direct 'statement of gratitude' from the McCanns with regard to any aspect of the investigation. I find that very strange.
I posted one earlier from September 2017. To claim that this is not a direct statement of gratitude when it was put out by Clarence Mitchell and appeared on the Official Find Madeleine Facebook page is quite simply preposterous.
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From the Leicester Mercury March 28th 2018
"Family spokesman Clarence Mitchell told the paper that Madeleine's parents Kate and Gerry McCann were "incredibly grateful" to the Home Office for granting the money request.
He said: "They are very encouraged that the Met Police still believe there is work left to be done and they are incredibly grateful to the Home Office for providing an extra budget for the investigation.""
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I posted one earlier from September 2017. To claim that this is not a direct statement of gratitude when it was put out by Clarence Mitchell and appeared on the Official Find Madeleine Facebook page is quite simply preposterous.
It is their page why would they need Mitchell to say anything ?
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From the Leicester Mercury March 28th 2018
"Family spokesman Clarence Mitchell told the paper that Madeleine's parents Kate and Gerry McCann were "incredibly grateful" to the Home Office for granting the money request.
He said: "They are very encouraged that the Met Police still believe there is work left to be done and they are incredibly grateful to the Home Office for providing an extra budget for the investigation.""
So when the Mail approached Mitchell do you think a ‘no comment’ would have sufficed ? This isn’t an arguido interview after all 8(0(*
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So when the Mail approached Mitchell do you think a ‘no comment’ would have sufficed ? This isn’t an arguido interview after all 8(0(*
You either accept that the McCanns have a spokesperson who acts on their behalf to communicate with the media (including social media) and take at face value what is being said, or you can choose to disbelieve everything that is said and read between every single line to discern some hidden meaning. I believe you have made that choice and no amount of stating the obvious will make any difference.
For me, it is clear from the words spoken by their official spokesperson and repeated on their official page that the McCanns are glad that the Met investigation continues and are grateful for the extra funding to allow it to continue. Any other interpretation is something completely fomented in your imagination and without any evidence to back it up.
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You either accept that the McCanns have a spokesperson who acts on their behalf to communicate with the media (including social media) and take at face value what is being said, or you can choose to disbelieve everything that is said and read between every single line to discern some hidden meaning. I believe you have made that choice and no amount of stating the obvious will make any difference.
For me, it is clear from the words spoken by their official spokesperson and repeated on their official page that the McCanns are glad that the Met investigation continues and are grateful for the extra funding to allow it to continue. Any other interpretation is something completely fomented in your imagination and without any evidence to back it up.
We were lead to believe that the McCanns no longer have a spokesperson, official or otherwise.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccanns-parents-dump-key-8731091
No direct statement from the McCanns. No statement of any kind, ever, from Nicola Wall.
There’s a great deal of silence surrounding this case at the moment.
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We were lead to believe that the McCanns no longer have a spokesperson, official or otherwise.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccanns-parents-dump-key-8731091
No direct statement from the McCanns. No statement of any kind, ever, from Nicola Wall.
There’s a great deal of silence surrounding this case at the moment.
Clarence Mitchell confirmed last year that whilst he is no longer officially employed as their spokesman, he still assists them as and when.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/exclusive-twice-past-ten-years-thought-found-madeleine-mccann/
Let's be honest though, if the McCanns had given a "direct" statement to the media you'd probably have quipped pretty much the same sentiment as you did earlier re: Clarence being approached by the Mail.
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As there has been so much noise surrounding this case over the course of the first ten years, perhaps a period of silence while the investigation continues wouldn't go amiss? Frustrating though it may be for fans of the case...
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Clarence Mitchell confirmed last year that whilst he is no longer their official spokesman, he still assists them as and when.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/exclusive-twice-past-ten-years-thought-found-madeleine-mccann/
Let's be honest though, if the McCanns had given a "direct" statement to the media you'd probably have quipped pretty much the same sentiment as you did earlier re: Clarence being approached by the Mail.
We will never know whether that’s true will we because even though they are two highly educated professionals who are more than able to answer even difficult questions with ease they still choose to hide behind a paid spokesperson.
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As there has been so much noise surrounding this case over the course of the first ten years, perhaps a period of silence while the investigation continues wouldn't go amiss? Frustrating though it may be for fans of the case...
Fans ? A rather odd description.
There have been several investigation updates since Wall took over the case yet none fronted by her. Isn’t it usual for the SIO to deliver such updates ? Redwood certainly did.
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Not sure what would be considered normal, but Rowley was a good few ranks higher than a DCI, so I can only assume that SY wanted a media-savvy frontman for this case.
Rowley has gone now so who will the replacement spokesperson be?
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We will never know whether that’s true will we because even though they are two highly educated professionals who are more than able to answer even difficult questions with ease they still choose to hide behind a paid spokesperson.
I think we both know it's highly likely that you would find some hidden meaning in their words, whatever they might be.
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Fans ? A rather odd description.
There have been several investigation updates since Wall took over the case yet none fronted by her. Isn’t it usual for the SIO to deliver such updates ? Redwood certainly did.
You seem overly anxious to hear from DCI Wall, as you have made reference to this already in the recent past. Don't worry, I'm sure in the fullness of time we will hear from her.
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I think we both know it's highly likely that you would find some hidden meaning in their words, whatever they might be.
What has that got to do with it ?
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You seem overly anxious to hear from DCI Wall, as you have made reference to this already in the recent past. Don't worry, I'm sure in the fullness of time we will hear from her.
I do hope so.
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What has that got to do with it ?
Whatever the McCanns say or do not say, do or do not do, indicates to yourself something suspicious, or underhand, or cowardly, or dishonorable. The latest examples on this thread are your beliefs that a) by not giving a public interview to express gratitude to the Met, that this implies some level of discomfort on their part towards the investigation and a high level of ingratitude and b) by instead communicating their gratitude to the Met via a spokesperson that they are in hiding and by implication afraid. It doesn't really matter what they say or do, because you will IMO find something in their speech and actions to further castigate them, am I right or am I right?
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Whatever the McCanns say or do not say, do or do not do, indicates to yourself something suspicious, or underhand, or cowardly, or dishonorable. The latest examples on this thread are your beliefs that a) by not giving a public interview to express gratitude to the Met, that this implies some level of discomfort on their part towards the investigation and a high level of ingratitude and b) by instead communicating their gratitude to the Met via a spokesperson that they are in hiding and by implication afraid..
That is your interpretation not what I have said.
Of course while directing your accusations at me you are deflecting from the real question asked which was why haven’t the McCanns directly thanked the HO and Met for their efforts to find the daughter they so carelessly lost ?
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I do hope so.
It does surprise me that imo someone can misread all the evidence and statemnts and come to the conclusion not only that the mccanns are criminally involved in maddies disappearance but that SY and the portuguese are actually following this line of investigation...absolutely unbelieveable...imo of course
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It does surprise me that imo someone can misread all the evidence and statemnts and come to the conclusion not only that the mccanns are criminally involved in maddies disappearance but that SY and the portuguese are actually following this line of investigation...absolutely unbelieveable...imo of course
Keep to the topic.
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That is your interpretation not what I have said.
Of course while directing your accusations at me you are deflecting from the real question asked which was why haven’t the McCanns directly thanked the HO and Met for their efforts to find the daughter they so carelessly lost ?
And there you go again. IMO The McCanns have a spokesperson that IMO they directed to express their thanks and gratitude to the media regarding the on-going funding of Operation Grange. IMO There is no mystery, no subterfuge, no ingratitude.
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so ...on topic...the mcccanns are not waiting...the funds have been granted and rightly so...imo
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Maybe this is the reason why the McCanns do not make public statments that often anymore, either directly to the media or on their FB page and maybe it's the reason why the Met haven't confirmed the amount of extra funding they have received...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4959766/Police-searching-Madeleine-McCann-critical-witness.html
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This is from the HO.
https://homeofficemedia.blog.gov.uk/2018/03/27/home-office-in-the-media-27-march-2018/
Any one care to bring anything from SY saying they are investigating a lead.
It would seem not.
The H.O blog is a bit curt wrt to comments in the media.
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is this post on topic
It was as it was about funding.
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Maybe this is the reason why the McCanns do not make public statments that often anymore, either directly to the media or on their FB page and maybe it's the reason why the Met haven't confirmed the amount of extra funding they have received...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4959766/Police-searching-Madeleine-McCann-critical-witness.html
No, no VS that just won’t do.
They manage to thank supporters in their updates but not the police.
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No, no VS that just won’t do.
They manage to thank supporters in their updates but not the police.
And still get slagged off for it no doubt. BTW did I stop boring you momentarily?
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No, no VS that just won’t do.
They manage to thank supporters in their updates but not the police.
In my study http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9357.msg456095#msg456095 there appears good reason for the McCanns to feel let down by the LP.
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The Home Office statement is below:
A Home Office spokesperson said:
The Government remains committed to the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann (Operation Grange). We have briefed the MPS that its application for Special Grant funding for Operation Grange will be granted.
(already linked in one of barrier's posts).
From the horses mouth as it were; no speculation required:
The Home Office will only consider an application from the relevant PCC. The force is not able to make an application of its own volition.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/police-funding-special-grant-guidance/special-grant-guidance
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/police-funding-special-grant-applications
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And still get slagged off for it no doubt. BTW did I stop boring you momentarily?
But still do it.
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But still do it.
???
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???
You said ‘And still get slagged off for it no doubt. ‘ and I said but they still do it, therefore a feeble excuse for not thanking the Met directly.
Bottom line, while the parents pour copious gratitude on supporters, Missing People charity, Uncle Tom Cobley and all in the last two and a half years there’s been not one direct statement of gratitude for the Met officers who are diligently looking for their daughter. That, strangely, is left to the hired help.
What a strange set of priorities they have.
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&%54%
You said ‘And still get slagged off for it no doubt. ‘ and I said but they still do it, therefore a feeble excuse for not thanking the Met directly.
Bottom line, while the parents pour copious gratitude on supporters, Missing People charity, Uncle Tom Cobley and all in the last two and a half years there’s been not one direct statement of gratitude for the Met officers who are diligently looking for their daughter. That, strangely, is left to the hired help.
What a strange set of priorities they have.
That is all your opinion.... Strange your post has not been edited
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You said ‘And still get slagged off for it no doubt. ‘ and I said but they still do it, therefore a feeble excuse for not thanking the Met directly.
Bottom line, while the parents pour copious gratitude on supporters, Missing People charity, Uncle Tom Cobley and all in the last two and a half years there’s been not one direct statement of gratitude for the Met officers who are diligently looking for their daughter. That, strangely, is left to the hired help.
What a strange set of priorities they have.
Perhaps because they have a direct line to the police, they are able to do their expressions of gratitude in person (and even you cannot tell me this has not happened!), whereas general expressions of thanks to their thousands of supporters on FB or whatever, are just that. How many times have they expressed their direct gratitude publicly to Clarence Mitchell? Their parents? Their close friends and family? Isable Duarte? Their forum and Social Media person? Etc. Etc. Etc.
Once again I think you are reading too much into things, but perhaps gaining some comfort and reassurance from doing so?
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I think the parents just want to get on with their lives now and not have every waking moment dictated to by what occurred nearly eleven years ago. Who could blame them. They want some semblance of normality in the twins lives after years of upset and turmoil.
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Perhaps because they have a direct line to the police, they are able to do their expressions of gratitude in person (and even you cannot tell me this has not happened!), whereas general expressions of thanks to their thousands of supporters on FB or whatever, are just that. How many times have they expressed their direct gratitude publicly to Clarence Mitchell? Their parents? Their close friends and family? Isable Duarte? Their forum and Social Media person? Etc. Etc. Etc.
Once again I think you are reading too much into things, but perhaps gaining some comfort and reassurance from doing so?
Firstly Isabel Duarte and Clarence Mitchell are paid so no need for thanks. Supporters cover their forum and media person ( I assume you mean their Facebook webmistress who is unpaid and does as little ‘awareness raising’ as that sum suggests.
They obviously think thanking the Met publicly is appropriate as they get their paid mouthpiece to do it yet while millions of pounds and many man hours are being spent on this case they could not force themselves to write a personal thank you, within a message that is already being publicised, to the people who are making that possible.
Odd IMO.
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Firstly Isabel Duarte and Clarence Mitchell are paid so no need for thanks. Supporters cover their forum and media person ( I assume you mean their Facebook webmistress who is unpaid and does as little ‘awareness raising’ as that sum suggests.
They obviously think thanking the Met publicly is appropriate as they get their paid mouthpiece to do it yet while millions of pounds and many man hours are being spent on this case they could not force themselves to write a personal thank you, within a message that is already being publicised, to the people who are making that possible.
Odd IMO.
It makes Clary feel important.
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Firstly Isabel Duarte and Clarence Mitchell are paid so no need for thanks. Supporters cover their forum and media person ( I assume you mean their Facebook webmistress who is unpaid and does as little ‘awareness raising’ as that sum suggests.
They obviously think thanking the Met publicly is appropriate as they get their paid mouthpiece to do it yet while millions of pounds and many man hours are being spent on this case they could not force themselves to write a personal thank you, within a message that is already being publicised, to the people who are making that possible.
Odd IMO.
No need to thank the people you pay for doing you a service? You must be a harsh boss.
Can you please tell me how you know the McCanns have not showered the police with thank you notes and expressions of gratitude each time they meet? Do you think the police at the Met are all sitting there feeling terribly aggrieved at the lack of personal direct thanks in the pages of the Mirror and the Mail?
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No need to thank the people you pay for doing you a service? You must be a harsh boss.
Can you please tell me how you know the McCanns have not showered the police with thank you notes and expressions of gratitude each time they meet? Do you think the police at the Met are all sitting there feeling terribly aggrieved at the lack of personal direct thanks in the pages of the Mirror and the Mail?
Not in the least. I think the Met know exactly why they aren’t being publicly thanked.
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Firstly Isabel Duarte and Clarence Mitchell are paid so no need for thanks. Supporters cover their forum and media person ( I assume you mean their Facebook webmistress who is unpaid and does as little ‘awareness raising’ as that sum suggests.
They obviously think thanking the Met publicly is appropriate as they get their paid mouthpiece to do it yet while millions of pounds and many man hours are being spent on this case they could not force themselves to write a personal thank you, within a message that is already being publicised, to the people who are making that possible.
Odd IMO.
Mr McCann also expressed his family's gratitude that the Metropolitan Police team investigating Madeleine's disappearance has now moved on to a 'very active' phase in its inquiry.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2619556/Madeleine-McCanns-parents-thank-public-support-attend-prayer-service-seventh-anniversary-daughters-disappearance.html#ixzz5CMXtBIJo
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
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Mr McCann also expressed his family's gratitude that the Metropolitan Police team investigating Madeleine's disappearance has now moved on to a 'very active' phase in its inquiry.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2619556/Madeleine-McCanns-parents-thank-public-support-attend-prayer-service-seventh-anniversary-daughters-disappearance.html#ixzz5CMXtBIJo
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Ah 2014, just before Nicola Wall arrived. Then there’s this from 2015
‘28 October, 2015 - Update
We would like to thank all the staff from Operation Grange for the meticulous and painstaking work that they have carried out over the last four and a half years.
The scale and difficulty of their task has never been in doubt. We are reassured that the investigation to find Madeleine has been significantly progressed and the MPS has a much clearer picture of the events in PDL leading up to Madeleine’s abduction in 2007.
Given that the review phase of the investigation is essentially completed, we fully understand the reasons why the team is being reduced. We would also like to thank the Home Office for continuing to support the investigation.
Whilst we do not know what happened to Madeleine, we remain hopeful that she may still be found given the ongoing lines of enquiry.
Gerry and Kate’
So no direct word of thanks for around two and a half years. Odd.
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Not in the least. I think the Met know exactly why they aren’t being publicly thanked.
Oh, why do you think that?
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Ah 2014, just before Nicola Wall arrived. Then there’s this from 2015
‘28 October, 2015 - Update
We would like to thank all the staff from Operation Grange for the meticulous and painstaking work that they have carried out over the last four and a half years.
The scale and difficulty of their task has never been in doubt. We are reassured that the investigation to find Madeleine has been significantly progressed and the MPS has a much clearer picture of the events in PDL leading up to Madeleine’s abduction in 2007.
Given that the review phase of the investigation is essentially completed, we fully understand the reasons why the team is being reduced. We would also like to thank the Home Office for continuing to support the investigation.
Whilst we do not know what happened to Madeleine, we remain hopeful that she may still be found given the ongoing lines of enquiry.
Gerry and Kate’
So no direct word of thanks for around two and a half years. Odd.
Perhaps you could reproduce here all subsequent messages of gratitude written directly by the McCanns so we can examine them in greater detail? I assume you have them collated for easy reference?
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Perhaps you could reproduce here all subsequent messages of gratitude written directly by the McCanns so we can examine them in greater detail? I assume you have them collated for easy reference?
I haven’t but another kind soul has http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/DAYS_2596.htm#d3888.
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I haven’t but another kind soul has http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/DAYS_2596.htm#d3888.
As the Met are meeting with the McCann's and constantly bringing them up to date, would it be too much to presume that the McCann's thank them when they visit?
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As the Met are meeting with the McCann's and constantly bringing them up to date, would it be too much to presume that the McCann's thank them when they visit?
You actually think they visit them? 😁
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As the Met are meeting with the McCann's and constantly bringing them up to date, would it be too much to presume that the McCann's thank them when they visit?
And I’m sure they did that before October 2015 but still thanked them publicly too.
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And I’m sure they did that before October 2015 but still thanked them publicly too.
From the point of view of the police what difference do you think it makes if the McCanns thank them publicly in person instead of expressing words of gratitude via their “hired help”?
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From the point of view of the police what difference do you think it makes if the McCanns thank them publicly in person instead of expressing words of gratitude via their “hired help”?
I’m sure the police couldn’t care less however it does seem to be good form.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-38535446/us-torture-victim-s-family-thanks-police
https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/south-yorkshire-honour-abuse-victim-thanks-police-for-help-1-8013555
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10946977/Rolf-Harris-youngest-victim-thanks-police.html
https://www.westmercia.police.uk/article/14005/Victim-of-Anti-Social-Behaviour-thanks-Police-for-their-efforts
https://rosebankkillarneygazette.co.za/181141/attempted-hijacking-victim-thanks-policeorheaps-of-praise-for-parkview-policeorparkview-police-save-the-day/
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I’m sure the police couldn’t care less however it does seem to be good form.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-38535446/us-torture-victim-s-family-thanks-police
https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/south-yorkshire-honour-abuse-victim-thanks-police-for-help-1-8013555
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10946977/Rolf-Harris-youngest-victim-thanks-police.html
https://www.westmercia.police.uk/article/14005/Victim-of-Anti-Social-Behaviour-thanks-Police-for-their-efforts
https://rosebankkillarneygazette.co.za/181141/attempted-hijacking-victim-thanks-policeorheaps-of-praise-for-parkview-policeorparkview-police-save-the-day/
Yes, the McCanns can be added to that list too. How many of those on your list thanked the police directly and publicly on a regular basis?
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Yes, the McCanns can be added to that list too. How many of those on your list thanked the police directly and publicly on a regular basis?
How many of those on the list get regular help and funding from the police ?
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How many of those on the list get regular help and funding from the police ?
no idea, you posted them to try and prove some sort of point. What was it again?
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no idea, you posted them to try and prove some sort of point. What was it again?
Sarcasm...
Removed potential personal comment.
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Sarcasm....
Ad hominem and ditto.
Tell me Faithlilly, is it your belief that the McCanns have not thanked the police directly because they are unhappy at the direction the investigation has taken?
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I haven’t but another kind soul has http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/DAYS_2596.htm#d3888.
This bit from 24th April 2017 is interesting:
"There are no new appeals that the police wish to make at this moment in time"
When did their FB page (or what have you) become a spokesperson for The Met?
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Ad hominem and ditto.
Tell me Faithlilly, is it your belief that the McCanns have not thanked the police directly because they are unhappy at the direction the investigation has taken?
Who knows.
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This bit from 24th April 2017 is interesting:
"There are no new appeals that the police wish to make at this moment in time"
When did their FB page (or what have you) become a spokesperson for The Met?
Odd message altogether.
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Who knows.
You did give the impression that you did know or indeed has suspicions of what this "odd "behaviour could mean.
How disappointing 8)><(
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You did give the impression that you did know or indeed has suspicions of what this "odd "behaviour could mean.
How disappointing 8)><(
I can make assumptions based on past behaviour. After 11 years the McCann’s MO is nothing if not predictable.
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Topic, please. Deletions coming up.
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Who knows.
You indicated earlier that you had some sort of inkling when you wrote:
"I think the Met know exactly why they aren’t being publicly thanked"
Upon what did you base this belief?
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I can make assumptions based on past behaviour. After 11 years the McCann’s MO is nothing if not predictable.
If they are as predictable as you say, then based on past behaviour they would be letting it known via third parties that they are not happy with the direction the investigation is taking, if indeed they are not as you seem to be suggesting. But there is nothing whatsoever to suggest that the McCaans are anything but happy with the Met's efforts to date and very grateful for them too.
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If they are as predictable as you say, then based on past behaviour they would be letting it known via third parties that they are not happy with the direction the investigation is taking, if indeed they are not as you seem to be suggesting. But there is nothing whatsoever to suggest that the McCaans are anything but happy with the Met's efforts to date and very grateful for them too.
Did they let it be known via a third party in 2007 that they were not happy with the direction of the investigation ?
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Did they let it be known via a third party in 2007 that they were not happy with the direction of the investigation ?
It's something they're always being accused of on this forum, what do you think?
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Well at the risk of being boring copping another noss at this carefully constructed prose on the H.O site is worthwhile.
Special Grant funding for Operation Grange
"The Express, Sun, Independent, Star, Mirror and Daily Mail all lead today on the Home Office announcement that the Government remains committed to the investigation, and that we have briefed the Metropolitan Police Service that its application for Special Grant funding will be granted to support the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
The Mail states that detectives applied for more funding last month, and that Government funding has been granted every six months, with £154,000 being granted from October last year.
The Express carries a statement by the McCann’s saying they are “incredibly grateful” [it might be worth finding this!; A.P.]
Sky News, ITV News and BBC all state that police have been given more cash in the search efforts of Madeleine McCann, and speculate that more than £11 million has already been spent on the investigation."
The Home Office statement is below:
A Home Office spokesperson said:
"The Government remains committed to the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann (Operation Grange). We have briefed the MPS that its application for Special Grant funding for Operation Grange will be granted".
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It wasn't just the Express carrying the "incredibly grateful" comment - most papers did, because they simply copied the contents of Clarence Mitchell's press release.
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It's something they're always being accused of on this forum, what do you think?
It was you who made the claim. What do you think ?
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It was you who made the claim. What do you think ?
I think they may have, now what do you think?
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It wasn't just the Express carrying the "incredibly grateful" comment - most papers did, because they simply copied the contents of Clarence Mitchell's press release.
Which of these two options do you believe applies in this instance?:
"Here is the press release I have made on your behalf".
"Please make this press release on our behalf".
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Which of these two options do you believe applies in this instance?:
"Here is the press release I have made on your behalf".
"Please make this press release on our behalf".
I honestly don't know, what about you?
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I think they may have, now what do you think?
You mean you don’t believe that ‘a source close to the investigation’, a pal of ‘ et al were actually true ?
So why couldn’t that be happening now ? Why couldn’t Mitchell be exclaiming their delight at the progress of the investigation to cover their disappointment in it ?
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You mean you don’t believe that ‘a source close to the investigation’, a pal of ‘ et al were actually true ?
So why couldn’t that be happening now ? Why couldn’t Mitchell be exclaiming their delight at the progress of the investigation to cover their disappointment in it ?
Can I just point out that you have repeatedly failed to answer questions that I have put to you by deflecting with questions of your own.
I answered your question (which was basically my question to you thrown back at me) with the acknowledgement that yes, it was possible that the McCanns let their displeasure with the PJ's investigation be known back in 2007 via the use of a third party talking to the media. This is just one of many accusations levelled at the McCanns over the years. If it were true, and if (as you say) the McCanns are oh-so-wearily predictable, then if they were unhappy with the current direction of the investigation would they not be letting their dissatisfaction regarding the case be known via third party(ies) rather than using them for effusive expressions of gratitude? What is to be gained by making any statements of gratitude directly or indirectly if they are sat indoors constantly in a state of terror that the Old Bill are going to come a-knocking to march them off to the station? On the other hand, if that actually is the reality (which I suspect you rather think it is), then wouldn't they be better off starting a propaganda campaign to throw doubt on the police's work, rather like some people think they did back in Portugal in 2007?
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You mean you don’t believe that ‘a source close to the investigation’, a pal of ‘ et al were actually true ?
So why couldn’t that be happening now ? Why couldn’t Mitchell be exclaiming their delight at the progress of the investigation to cover their disappointment in it ?
Why couldn't Mitchell be exclaiming the McCanns' gratitude for extra funding and the continuation of the investigation because that is genuinely how they feel about it? Why is that less likely than the scenario you prefer to believe in?
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Can I just point out that you have repeatedly failed to answer questions that I have put to you by deflecting with questions of your own.
I answered your question (which was basically my question to you thrown back at me) with the acknowledgement that yes, it was possible that the McCanns let their displeasure with the PJ's investigation be known back in 2007 via the use of a third party talking to the media. This is just one of many accusations levelled at the McCanns over the years. If it were true, and if (as you say) the McCanns are oh-so-wearily predictable, then if they were unhappy with the current direction of the investigation would they not be letting their dissatisfaction regarding the case be known via third party(ies) rather than using them for effusive expressions of gratitude? What is to be gained by making any statements of gratitude directly or indirectly if they are sat indoors constantly in a state of terror that the Old Bill are going to come a-knocking to march them off to the station? On the other hand, if that actually is the reality (which I suspect you rather think it is), then wouldn't they be better off starting a propaganda campaign to throw doubt on the police's work, rather like some people think they did back in Portugal in 2007?
Let’s start with point one. This is not the PJ, who were the victims of a horrendous smear campaign by, as you now admit, people close to the McCanns and this is not Portuguese money that is being spent on the investigation. If they expressed their displeasure at this point, even through a third party, can you imagine the backlash ? Public money being spent to fund an investigation by, arguably, the best police force in the world and still they’re not happy. Even the most ardent of supporters would find that hard to justify.
Second point, what is to be gained by making statements of gratitude? Time. Just as in the first investigation when the McCanns were telling the world that everything was fine and they were working well with the PJ, even when their house was being searched and they were being told by the PJ that they believed that they had a part in their daughter’s disappearance. They knew eventually the truth would come out. They may be using misdirection again to postpone the inevitable.
Third point unless you think OG is leaking suspects like a sieve then a full-scale propaganda campaign is already underway to undermine their credibility.
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Why couldn't Mitchell be exclaiming the McCanns' gratitude for extra funding and the continuation of the investigation because that is genuinely how they feel about it? Why is that less likely than the scenario you prefer to believe in?
A better question is why is Mitchell expressing their gratitude at all on their own Facebook page ? Why aren’t they doing it themselves ?
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Let’s start with point one. This is not the PJ, who were the victims of a horrendous smear campaign by, as you now admit, people close to the McCanns and this is not Portuguese money that is being spent on the investigation. If they expressed their displeasure at this point, even through a third party, can you imagine the backlash ? Public money being spent to fund an investigation by, arguably, the best police force in the world and still they’re not happy. Even the most ardent of supporters would find that hard to justify.
Second point, what is to be gained by making statements of gratitude? Time. Just as in the first investigation when the McCanns were telling the world that everything was fine and they were working well with the PJ, even when their house was being searched and they were being told by the PJ that they believed that they had a part in their daughter’s disappearance. They knew eventually the truth would come out. They may be using misdirection again to postpone the inevitable.
Third point unless you think OG is leaking suspects like a sieve then a full-scale propaganda campaign is already underway to undermine their credibility.
I think you're in danger of boring me into submission now! Taking your points in (brief) reverse order as I have to get to work now
1) I neither believe OH is leaking like a sieve, nor thst there is a full-scale propaganda campaign against OG, in fact I find that suggestion utterly bizarre. Who do you believe is behind this full scale propaganda campaign? Surely not the McCanns?
2) they are buying time by getting Clarence Mitchell to express gratitude to the police?? That makes little sense to me either, sorry. Why do they need to get Clarence to express gratitdue and what difference would it make if they expressed it "directly" as you insist they haven't?
3) I'm trying to imagine a backlash any worse than the backlash they have been through for the last 11 years. Nope, can't imagine it. By now, I should think the McCanns could cope with any backlash and if they genuinely believed the tide was turning against them again then they would get greater mileage out of expressing their concerns now rather than their gratitude about the investigation.
But that's all a matter of opinion -you have yours I have mine.
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A better question is why is Mitchell expressing their gratitude at all on their own Facebook page ? Why aren’t they doing it themselves ?
What difference does it make really, to anyone (apart it seems yourself)?
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I think you're in danger of boring me into submission now! Taking your points in (brief) reverse order as I have to get to work now
1) I neither believe OH is leaking like a sieve, nor thst there is a full-scale propaganda campaign against OG, in fact I find that suggestion utterly bizarre. Who do you believe is behind this full scale propaganda campaign? Surely not the McCanns?
2) they are buying time by getting Clarence Mitchell to express gratitude to the police?? That makes little sense to me either, sorry. Why do they need to get Clarence to express gratitdue and what difference would it make if they expressed it "directly" as you insist they haven't?
3) I'm trying to imagine a backlash any worse than the backlash they have been through for the last 11 years. Nope, can't imagine it. By now, I should think the McCanns could cope with any backlash and if they genuinely believed the tide was turning against them again then they would get greater mileage out of expressing their concerns now rather than their gratitude about the investigation.
But that's all a matter of opinion -you have yours I have mine.
1) Firstly were are the details of suspects such as the lady in purple coming from if OG isn’t leaking like a sieve ( and I don’t think they are ) ? You admitted not two pages back that it was possible that the McCanns waged a covert propaganda campaign against the PJ in 2007. Why do you think they wouldn’t use the same methods again now ?
2) In August 2007 they knew the PJ were building a case against them and yet publicly, at least, still expressed their support and gratitude towards the PJ. They were obviously misleading the public then, why not now ?
3) What mileage would they have by directly expressing their concerns now ?
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I honestly don't know, what about you?
I don't know either but I'd have a touch of the 6:4s on the first purely on the basis one should not buy a dog and bark oneself.
Or if you prefer the slightly more cultured version "don't hire Michelangelo to paint the church ceiling then have the infant school art class suggest improvements".
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1) Firstly were are the details of suspects such as the lady in purple coming from if OG isn’t leaking like a sieve ( and I don’t think they are ) ? You admitted not two pages back that it was possible that the McCanns waged a covert propaganda campaign against the PJ in 2007. Why do you think they wouldn’t use the same methods again now ?
2) In August 2007 they knew the PJ were building a case against them and yet publicly, at least, still expressed their support and gratitude towards the PJ. They were obviously misleading the public then, why not now ?
3) What mileage would they have by directly expressing their concerns now ?
What has any of this got to do with your original contention that the McCanns have allegegedly not directly thanked the Met and got Clarence to do it instead, and that moreover you belief that the police know exactly why they have allegedly not been thanked directly?
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I don't know either but I'd have a touch of the 6:4s on the first purely on the basis one should not buy a dog and bark oneself.
Or if you prefer the slightly more cultured version "don't hire Michelangelo to paint the church ceiling then have the infant school art class suggest improvements".
Well it's the first time I've seen Clarence compared to Michaelangelo, but if you say so!
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Well it's the first time I've seen Clarence compared to Michaelangelo, but if you say so!
Bingo @)(++(*
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The Home Office statement is below:
A Home Office spokesperson said:
The Government remains committed to the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann (Operation Grange). We have briefed the MPS that its application for Special Grant funding for Operation Grange will be granted.
(already linked in one of barrier's posts).
From the horses mouth as it were; no speculation required:
The Home Office will only consider an application from the relevant PCC. The force is not able to make an application of its own volition.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/police-funding-special-grant-guidance/special-grant-guidance
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/police-funding-special-grant-applications
Alice your link to the guidance didn't work this one does.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/police-funding-special-grant-guidance/special-grant-guidance
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A better question is why is Mitchell expressing their gratitude at all on their own Facebook page ? Why aren’t they doing it themselves ?
Some people are just far too important. you know how it is.
All the celebs have a spokes person, its almost like having a butler or such. I don't know about anxiously awaiting news bit, I guess they are just glad they don't have to use fund money for the 'search'. they can't search them selves, could they or are they are too busy?.
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Well it's the first time I've seen Clarence compared to Michaelangelo, but if you say so!
Does that imply you have seen him compared with a dog!?
Sniping apart, I believe Clarence earned his corn.
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Some people are just far too important. you know how it is.
All the celebs have a spokes person, its almost like having a butler or such. I don't know about anxiously awaiting news bit, I guess they are just glad they don't have to use fund money for the 'search'. they can't search them selves, could they or are they are too busy?.
Why is Mitchell even involved at all? Can the McCanns not speak for themselves any more?
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Why is Mitchell even involved at all? Can the McCanns not speak for themselves any more?
I find it rather ironic that they can still pay for a spokesperson but not for someone to package up the awareness raising goods they have been selling these past years.
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I find it rather ironic that they can still pay for a spokesperson but not for someone to package up the awareness raising goods they have been selling these past years.
How much does he get paid?
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How much does he get paid?
Certainly more than an envelope stuffer.
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Certainly more than an envelope stuffer.
But how much? Do you have a cite?
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But how much? Do you have a cite?
Of course it should be nothing as we were told Gerry sacked Mitchell but up he still pops and he’s certainly not doing that for free. Of course if they accounts were as transparent as we were promised it would be clearer how much he cost.
I believe the fund has somewhere in the order of three quarters of a million pounds in the bank yet when Kate decided she was too busy to continue raising awareness of her daughter’s disappearance by stuffing cheap tat into envelopes, it seems the awareness raising wasn’t important enough to employ someone to do it. Funny that when paying for someone to say stuff they could say themselves was.
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Of course it should be nothing as we were told Gerry sacked Mitchell but up he still pops and he’s certainly not doing that for free. Of course if they accounts were as transparent as we were promised it would be clearer how much he cost.
I believe the fund has somewhere in the order of three quarters of a million pounds in the bank yet when Kate decided she was too busy to continue raising awareness of her daughter’s disappearance by stuffing cheap tat into envelopes, it seems the awareness raising wasn’t important enough to employ someone to do it. Funny that when paying for someone to say stuff they could say themselves was.
So you don't know how much Clarence is paid (or even if he is paid) or by whom, yet you feel qualified to state as fact that he is paid more than an "envelope stuffer" and is paid by the Fund. I see.
PS: how much is the going rate for an envelope stuffer?
PPS: what quality gear would you be stuffing into envelopes to raise awareness for your missing child? Tiffany bangles?
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So you don't know how much Clarence is paid (or even if he is paid) or by whom, yet you feel qualified to state as fact that he is paid more than an "envelope stuffer" and is paid by the Fund. I see.
PS: how much is the going rate for an envelope stuffer?
PPS: what quality gear would you be stuffing into envelopes to raise awareness for your missing child? Tiffany bangles?
So do you really believe Mitchell may not now be being paid for his work for the McCanns ? Really ?
Of course it’s hard to compare Mitchell’s wage and what the McCanns would pay an envelope stuffer as it appears they don’t think raising awareness is important enough to employ one.
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So do you really believe Mitchell may not now be being paid for his work for the McCanns ? Really ?
Of course it’s hard to compare Mitchell’s wage and what the McCanns would pay an envelope stuffer as it appears they don’t think raising awareness is important enough to employ one.
I doubt there can ever have been a missing child of whom there is more awareness than Madeleine, but that is not really the topic of this thread is it?
The additional funding granted to the police to keep working to find out her fate is.
It would be appreciated if members post in accordance with the thread topics in all instances. Thank you
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I doubt there can ever have been a missing child of whom there is more awareness than Madeleine, but that is not really the topic of this thread is it?
The additional funding granted to the police to keep working to find out her fate is.
It would be appreciated if members post in accordance with the thread topics in all instances. Thank you
The latest from the Home Office on 27th March 2018 as linked on this thread said "will be granted" as you have a propensity for using long words n stuff I presume the "will be" will not be lost on you.
The implication of your post being that at some unspecified time between 27th March 2018 and the date of your post the funds were actually made available to The M.P.S. Do share how you came by this information or was the exclusion of I.M.O just a careless oversight on your part ?
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So do you really believe Mitchell may not now be being paid for his work for the McCanns ? Really ?
Of course it’s hard to compare Mitchell’s wage and what the McCanns would pay an envelope stuffer as it appears they don’t think raising awareness is important enough to employ one.
I think it's possible Clarence writes the odd press release for free and I think it's possible somenone else pays for his services, like they used to. Fact is - you don't know.
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The latest from the Home Office on 27th March 2018 as linked on this thread said "will be granted" as you have a propensity for using long words n stuff I presume the "will be" will not be lost on you.
The implication of your post being that at some unspecified time between 27th March 2018 and the date of your post the funds were actually made available to The M.P.S. Do share how you came by this information or was the exclusion of I.M.O just a careless oversight on your part ?
I am sorry ... I am afraid I do not have a clue what point you are making ... to be honest, I don't even know if it takes note of the important part of my post which was, semantics apart ...
"It would be appreciated if members post in accordance with the thread topics in all instances. Thank you"
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I think it's possible Clarence writes the odd press release for free and I think it's possible somenone else pays for his services, like they used to. Fact is - you don't know.
So we know that at one point Mitchell was paid by the fund. Is there any reason to believe that is still not the case ?
Further what we do know for certain, a fact that you are studiously trying to avoid, is that the McCanns didn’t deem raising awareness of Madeleine’s disappearance important enough to employ someone to send out travel packs etc when Kate was ‘too busy’.
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I am sorry ... I am afraid I do not have a clue what point you are making ... to be honest, I don't even know if it takes note of the important part of my post which was, semantics apart ...
"It would be appreciated if members post in accordance with the thread topics in all instances. Thank you"
It is strange how other posters understand. Maybe that should tell you something?
Your posting opinion as fact with no caveat was the point. You demonstrate great alacrity in pointing out this deficiency in others.
If my post is off topic then so is yours so I suggest you delete both. The point I wished to convey has been, so with th'orse long since bolted feel free to shut the stable door.
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I am sorry ... I am afraid I do not have a clue what point you are making ... to be honest, I don't even know if it takes note of the important part of my post which was, semantics apart ...
"It would be appreciated if members post in accordance with the thread topics in all instances. Thank you"
I thought you being a mod an all,all of your words were very important, the bit about MBM's fate not that much so? OK.
Pages back you told us that two polices forces were looking for an 'abductor'- even though you have no clue what they are doing.
btw the thread says the parents await news of funding, Faith pointed out they didn't thank the SY for gaining that funding. And what you and supporters forget, a little child was the reason for this global search, which is why the damn thing is costing so much- chasing boogy man after boogy man all over the world! The Anxious parents need other people to search for a child they lost,and the money they made from Maddies disappearance has been almost dwindled away. This is why they wait anxiously. IMHO
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The Home Office statement is below:
A Home Office spokesperson said:
The Government remains committed to the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann (Operation Grange). We have briefed the MPS that its application for Special Grant funding for Operation Grange will be granted.
(already linked in one of barrier's posts).
From the horses mouth as it were; no speculation required:
The Home Office will only consider an application from the relevant PCC. The force is not able to make an application of its own volition.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/police-funding-special-grant-guidance/special-grant-guidance
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/police-funding-special-grant-applications
The PCC for the MET I believe is the Mayor Of London in this instance Sadiq Khan,aided by a deputy by the name of Sophie Linden.
https://www.london.gov.uk/what-we-do/mayors-office-policing-and-crime-mopac/about-mayors-office-policing-and-crime-mopac-3
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A little bit about how the formula for extra funding is worked out.
The Home Office will only consider an application from the relevant PCC. The force is not able to make an application of its own volition.
It is important to note that even if a special grant is provided, forces are expected to meet the additional costs of the event up to 1% of the force’s budget. For example, if 1% of the force’s budget is £2.4 million, and the PCC makes an application for £3.2 million to cover the additional costs incurred, generally, the force will be expected the pay the first, £2.4 million, with a special grant providing the balance (in this example a special grant of £800k would be provided).
The Home Office reserves the right to refuse a special grant application, and there should be no presumption that financial assistance will be available.
There are 2 fundamental questions that will be taken into consideration: do the additional costs equal or exceed 1% of the force’s budget?; would the refusal of financial assistance threaten the PCC’s financial stability and their capacity to deliver effective policing?
If the answer to at least one of these questions is yes then the relevant PCC may apply for a special grant.
The application for a special grant should only include additional costs. In general, these would include those necessary to pay staff overtime, mutual aid and rest day working costs, but may also include vehicle or equipment hire costs. Special grant funding does not cover opportunity costs, for example, the cost of an officer engaged in policing the event as part of their normal duty should not be included in the application because this is an opportunity cost.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/police-funding-special-grant-guidance/special-grant-guidance
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It is strange how other posters understand. Maybe that should tell you something?
Your posting opinion as fact with no caveat was the point. You demonstrate great alacrity in pointing out this deficiency in others.
If my post is off topic then so is yours so I suggest you delete both. The point I wished to convey has been, so with th'orse long since bolted feel free to shut the stable door.
Two 'hits' for you here.- You have not clarified your post ... it is still as clear as mud as far as I am concerned.
- You certainly are ... in my opinion ... skilled in deflection from whatever topic takes your fancy.
Is it your contention that the Home Office have not approved the six monthly continuation of funding for Madeleine's case? or is your disapproval of the funding taking over your reasoning on the matter.
It would be good if you do respond if you used language less esoteric to your usual with the intention of ... - Maintaining the topic of the thread
- While enabling the less erudite -such as myself - to have a reasonable clue as to your meaning.
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I thought you being a mod an all,all of your words were very important, the bit about MBM's fate not that much so? OK.
Pages back you told us that two polices forces were looking for an 'abductor'- even though you have no clue what they are doing.
btw the thread says the parents await news of funding, Faith pointed out they didn't thank the SY for gaining that funding. And what you and supporters forget, a little child was the reason for this global search, which is why the damn thing is costing so much- chasing boogy man after boogy man all over the world! The Anxious parents need other people to search for a child they lost,and the money they made from Maddies disappearance has been almost dwindled away. This is why they wait anxiously. IMHO
Home Office in the media: 27 March 2018
Posted by: HO News Team, Posted on: 27 March 2018 - Categories: Fact sheet, Leading stories, Reactive statements
Special Grant funding for Operation Grange
The Express, Sun, Independent, Star, Mirror and Daily Mail all lead today on the Home Office announcement that the Government remains committed to the investigation, and that we have briefed the Metropolitan Police Service that its application for Special Grant funding will be granted to support the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
The Mail states that detectives applied for more funding last month, and that Government funding has been granted every six months, with £154,000 being granted from October last year.
The Express carries a statement by the McCann’s saying they are “incredibly grateful”
Sky News, ITV News and BBC all state that police have been given more cash in the search efforts of Madeleine McCann, and speculate that more than £11 million has already been spent on the investigation.
The Home Office statement is below:
https://homeofficemedia.blog.gov.uk/2018/03/27/home-office-in-the-media-27-march-2018/
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Home Office in the media: 27 March 2018
Posted by: HO News Team, Posted on: 27 March 2018 - Categories: Fact sheet, Leading stories, Reactive statements
Special Grant funding for Operation Grange
The Express, Sun, Independent, Star, Mirror and Daily Mail all lead today on the Home Office announcement that the Government remains committed to the investigation, and that we have briefed the Metropolitan Police Service that its application for Special Grant funding will be granted to support the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
The Mail states that detectives applied for more funding last month, and that Government funding has been granted every six months, with £154,000 being granted from October last year.
The Express carries a statement by the McCann’s saying they are “incredibly grateful”
Sky News, ITV News and BBC all state that police have been given more cash in the search efforts of Madeleine McCann, and speculate that more than £11 million has already been spent on the investigation.
The Home Office statement is below:
https://homeofficemedia.blog.gov.uk/2018/03/27/home-office-in-the-media-27-march-2018/
Yeah, did you delete the bit where they were using the funding looking for an abductor as was the PJ? I can't see that very important bit.
Did the Parents really phone the Daily mail to say they were whatever grateful?. second ,third, forth hand?
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Yeah, did you delete the bit where they were using the funding looking for an abductor as was the PJ? I can't see that very important bit.
Did the Parents really phone the Daily mail to say they were whatever grateful?. second ,third, forth hand?
We amateur sleuths have no idea what the present justification is that the home office have accepted when considering and granting continued funding to the police investigation of Madeleine McCann's case.
I seem to remember a bit of a furore about the original wording of their remit, though ... did you miss out on that? Or was the remit changed without me noticing?
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We amateur sleuths have no idea what the present justification is that the home office have accepted when considering and granting continued funding to the police investigation of Madeleine McCann's case.
I seem to remember a bit of a furore about the original wording of their remit, though ... did you miss out on that? Or was the remit changed without me noticing?
'We amateur sleuths have no idea what the present justification is that the home office have accepted when considering and granting continued funding to the police investigation of Madeleine McCann's case'.
Oh Good. cos you were selling the 'two police forces were looking for an abductor, on another thread. AND now here you are admitting you know nothing. Thank you for that.
'I seem to remember a bit of a furore about the original wording of their remit, though ... did you miss out on that? Or was the remit changed without me noticing'?
Well yeah you did miss out the DIRECT QUOTE where you cite- PJ admitting the McCanns were telling the truth and they found an abductor- albeit a dead one. How could someone as articulate are your very good self be so remiss of that?
So you are not going to provide a direct quote regarding this?
The home office blog doesn't say what the funding was being used for or how much it was, it was just giving a running commentary.
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Two 'hits' for you here.- You have not clarified your post ... it is still as clear as mud as far as I am concerned.
- You certainly are ... in my opinion ... skilled in deflection from whatever topic takes your fancy.
Is it your contention that the Home Office have not approved the six monthly continuation of funding for Madeleine's case? or is your disapproval of the funding taking over your reasoning on the matter.
It would be good if you do respond if you used language less esoteric to your usual with the intention of ... - Maintaining the topic of the thread
- While enabling the less erudite -such as myself - to have a reasonable clue as to your meaning.
Show me where I said I disapprove of the funding.
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So we know that at one point Mitchell was paid by the fund. Is there any reason to believe that is still not the case ?
Further what we do know for certain, a fact that you are studiously trying to avoid, is that the McCanns didn’t deem raising awareness of Madeleine’s disappearance important enough to employ someone to send out travel packs etc when Kate was ‘too busy’.
I thought that would have been taking the thread even further off topic but if you want to discuss it by all means start a new thread about it and we can disuss it there to your heart's content.
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Show me where I said I disapprove of the funding.
Make your position absolutely clear then please?
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Make your position absolutely clear then please?
I have challenged Brietta to back up one of her statements by demonstrating where I have expressed disapproval of the funding either explicitly or implicitly. It is now her move.
My position is irrelevant as Brietta has asserted I disapprove without caveat so it's up to her to substantiate that assertion. If it's right then proving it from my posts will be simple; otherwise ...... *%87