UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Robittybob1 on February 24, 2018, 09:01:24 AM
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There is a document in the PJ files http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_INFORMATION.htm "OFFICIAL INQUIRY FILES and DOCUMENTS
TIMELINE INFORMATION"
When I look at this I wonder if it was part of the original DVD or is it someones analysis of the translated documents?
Can someone enlighten me as to its origin please?
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If it was third party analysis, why would it appear in the files?
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If it was third party analysis, why would it appear in the files?
There is not one who takes authorship of the document and there is no Portuguese language document it was translated from (that I saw).
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It reads like it was written in English as the first language. Who wrote it and what is the purpose?
There is this bit Who hears the British Consul saying the "PJ are going nothing"?
"10.00 am, 12 hours after the disappearance, the British Consul from Portimão arrives. PJ tell him all that is going on. He is not satisfied and is heard talking on the phone saying the "PJ are doing nothing. " (GA)"
I'm struggling to think the PJ would write a note about themselves like that.
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Clearly a compilation done well after the event.
When were the details of the McCann phone calls known by the PJ, as it has to have been written after that ?
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Clearly a compilation done well after the event.
When were the details of the McCann phone calls known by the PJ, as it has to have been written after that ?
I don't think the analysis was done by the police. It appears to me to be the work of 'Kazlux'
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I don't think the analysis was done by the police. It appears to me to be the work of 'Kazlux'
Very likely not. I was meaning that it couldn't have been produced until after the details of the phone calls were known.
I wondered at first if it was a journalist's offering, but probably not.
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It reads like it was written in English as the first language. Who wrote it and what is the purpose?
There is this bit Who hears the British Consul saying the "PJ are going nothing"?
"10.00 am, 12 hours after the disappearance, the British Consul from Portimão arrives. PJ tell him all that is going on. He is not satisfied and is heard talking on the phone saying the "PJ are doing nothing. " (GA)"
I'm struggling to think the PJ would write a note about themselves like that.
Sorry to disagree, but there are bits, Rob, that do not sound to me as tho they were written by someone who has english as their first language.
Am in a dash atm so cant analyse.
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Note from translators
No translation published on this website may be used for any kind of commercial purposes or for inclusion in publications offered for sale. Reproduction in full or in part of any part of these texts requires the explicit agreement and authorisation of the translator, be it 'Astro', 'Ines' or any other translator who is using their right to publish under pseudonym, protected by Article 2 of the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works.
Astro
Ines
Kazlux
Kind regards
McCann PJ Files
Just a little bit of artistic licence from the 'owner' of the Artistic Work.
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Michelle Thompson ( from the timeline )
‘Kate continued that when she entered the apartment via the patio doors, a breeze hit her in the face as if a door or window was open. When she entered the children's room, the window was open, the blind had been forced and Madeleine had disappeared ‘.
My, how the narrative was adapted in the coming days.
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There is room for a misunderstanding in a conversation like that.
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There is room for a misunderstanding in a conversation like that.
Perhaps you could elaborate ?
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Another ' misunderstanding' ! What with that and the 'jemmied' misunderstanding it does make you wonder if the McCann's family and friends have an understanding of even the most basic of English sentences.
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Another ' misunderstanding' ! What with that and the 'jemmied' misunderstanding it does make you wonder if the McCann's family and friends have an understanding of even the most basic of English sentences.
Trish Cameron sister of G McCann.
Gerry said the window was open, the shutters broken and the door, which had been locked, hanging open.
John Corner.
Jon Corner, a close friend of Mrs McCann and godparent of the twins, said she telephoned him in the middle of the night distraught.
He said: "She just blurted out that Madeleine had been abducted. She told me, 'They have broken the shutter on the window and taken my little girl.'
"They had left the apartment locked while they were having their meal, but when they went back the last time they saw the damage.
"First they saw one of the window shutters had been forced, and then they saw the door was open and the bed was empty - and Madeleine was gone.
"Obviously Kate was incredibly upset when she phoned. I have spoken to her since, and she is still completely devastated - as we all are for them.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1550667/Police-identify-Madeleine-suspect.html
Dated 5/05/2007
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Perhaps you could elaborate ?
It would be a real bonus to my theory that Madeleine left via the front door. So don't worry I would love to be able to prove the front door was open when Kate did her check.
"Gerry said the window was open, the shutters broken and the door, which had been locked, hanging open." that could be an attempt at saving face with his sister, "and the door, which had been locked, hanging open" you can't be sure which door he was meaning as in his first statement he came in via the front door.
The conversation with Jon Corner doesn't make logical sense either: "She just blurted out that Madeleine had been abducted. She told me, 'They have broken the shutter on the window and taken my little girl.'
"They had left the apartment locked while they were having their meal, but when they went back the last time they saw the damage.
"First they saw one of the window shutters had been forced, and then they saw the door was open and the bed was empty - and Madeleine was gone"
Kate would have seen the door before the shutters unless she was talking about the front door.
Putting in more detail if they came in through the patio door: "First they saw one of the [kid's bedroom] window shutters had been forced, and then they saw the [front door] door was open and the bed was empty - and Madeleine was gone"
Putting in more detail if they came in through the front door: "First they saw one of the [kid's bedroom] window shutters had been forced [from outside], and then they saw the [kids bedroom] door was open and the bed was empty - and Madeleine was gone"
I don't believe it is possible to be certain that the truth was being told in those first few explanations. I'd say it would be common for face saving to be done in circumstances like this.
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Would one attach any significance to the apparent absence of the Ministerio Publico watermark?
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It would be a real bonus to my theory that Madeleine left via the front door. So don't worry I would love to be able to prove the front door was open when Kate did her check.
"Gerry said the window was open, the shutters broken and the door, which had been locked, hanging open." that could be an attempt at saving face with his sister, "and the door, which had been locked, hanging open" you can't be sure which door he was meaning as in his first statement he came in via the front door.
The conversation with Jon Corner doesn't make logical sense either: "She just blurted out that Madeleine had been abducted. She told me, 'They have broken the shutter on the window and taken my little girl.'
"They had left the apartment locked while they were having their meal, but when they went back the last time they saw the damage.
"First they saw one of the window shutters had been forced, and then they saw the door was open and the bed was empty - and Madeleine was gone"
Kate would have seen the door before the shutters unless she was talking about the front door.
Putting in more detail if they came in through the patio door: "First they saw one of the [kid's bedroom] window shutters had been forced, and then they saw the [front door] door was open and the bed was empty - and Madeleine was gone"
Putting in more detail if they came in through the front door: "First they saw one of the [kid's bedroom] window shutters had been forced [from outside], and then they saw the [kids bedroom] door was open and the bed was empty - and Madeleine was gone"
I don't believe it is possible to be certain that the truth was being told in those first few explanations. I'd say it would be common for face saving to be done in circumstances like this.
first you are not quoting the mccanns...and secondly if you accuse them of lying thats libel
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Would one attach any significance to the apparent absence of the Ministerio Publico watermark?
Not if it had been a translation.
However, from memory, it was one or more people who went through the files for timeline info and made a compilation back in the days of 3A.
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Not if it had been a translation.
However, from memory, it was one or more people who went through the files for timeline info and made a compilation back in the days of 3A.
Can anyone see a sentence in there that is not covered by the rest of the released file?
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Not if it had been a translation.
However, from memory, it was one or more people who went through the files for timeline info and made a compilation back in the days of 3A.
Gosh! what are you suggesting? 8(0(*
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If it was third party analysis, why would it appear in the files?
The translators have been able to add notes and comments to the file. So why not a whole document? There are no reference details on it. Just choosing a page randomly "TRANSLATIONS BY INES
05-Cartas Rogatorias Vol V Pages 11-12" http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JIM_McGARVEY.htm
and another "789 to 791 Witness statement of Elisa Angela Dias Romao 2007.05.09
03-Processo 3 page 789
TRANSLATION BY CAMERINA"
Both those had reference details and the other thing was the translations were "by" rather than "thanks to".
So it looks like this analysis is "THANKS TO KAZLUX" and not something done by the UK police or the PJ. IMO.
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Gosh! what are you suggesting? 8(0(*
What has been concerning me is where whole pages are missing could that be due to the translators ignoring certain pages?
If they can add them in can they also take others out?
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Can anyone see a sentence in there that is not covered by the rest of the released file?
"After 22:00 R. R. S. B. and his wife were still sitting on the veranda in the B. family apartment. They heard noises downstairs and afterwards found out that a child had disappeared. Gerald was seen and spoken to by N.B. and R.R.S.B. They heard him calling for Madeleine when they were sitting on N.B.'s balcony, not far from the McCann's apartment. They both went down to talk to Gerald and helped in the search."
In the public files NB in rogatory said:- (http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/NEIL_BERRY.htm)
From 22.00 onwards all the events that took place were already described in my previous statement of 7th May 2007 and i cannot add any further information, other than that which was already added.
In the public files RRSB in rogatory said :- (http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RAJ_BALU.htm)
After 22:00 we were still sitting on the veranda in the Berry apartment. We heard noises downstairs and afterwards found out that a child had disappeared. My testimony dated 6th of May 2007 related the details of the conversation we overheard and the information regarding the paper that Neil and I used in the searches. I cannot add any more details save those which have already been given in this testimony.
No mention that either of the witnesses engaged with Gerry so Kazlux must have somehow seen the first statements made by Berry & Balu,
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Rajinder Raj Singh BALU = RRSB you seem to be right Misty. So how did they do that?
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"After 22:00 R. R. S. B. and his wife were still sitting on the veranda in the B. family apartment. They heard noises downstairs and afterwards found out that a child had disappeared. Gerald was seen and spoken to by N.B. and R.R.S.B. They heard him calling for Madeleine when they were sitting on N.B.'s balcony, not far from the McCann's apartment. They both went down to talk to Gerald and helped in the search."
In the public files NB in rogatory said:- (http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/NEIL_BERRY.htm)
From 22.00 onwards all the events that took place were already described in my previous statement of 7th May 2007 and i cannot add any further information, other than that which was already added.
In the public files RRSB in rogatory said :- (http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RAJ_BALU.htm)
After 22:00 we were still sitting on the veranda in the Berry apartment. We heard noises downstairs and afterwards found out that a child had disappeared. My testimony dated 6th of May 2007 related the details of the conversation we overheard and the information regarding the paper that Neil and I used in the searches. I cannot add any more details save those which have already been given in this testimony.
No mention that either of the witnesses engaged with Gerry so Kazlux must have somehow seen the first statements made by Berry & Balu,
Have you ever worked out what they mean here: "and the information regarding the paper that Neil and I used in the searches." What is "the paper"?
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Have you ever worked out what they mean here: "and the information regarding the paper that Neil and I used in the searches." What is "the paper"?
I assume it was the copy photo printed off that night.
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Not if it had been a translation.
However, from memory, it was one or more people who went through the files for timeline info and made a compilation back in the days of 3A.
I seem to remember that too, Carana.
A lot of work went into compiling that analysis. Was it by Kazlux himself, I wonder?
ETA: Soz, Rob
Seems you have already worked it out in an earlier post
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I seem to remember that too, Carana.
A lot of work went into compiling that analysis. Was it by Kazlux himself, I wonder?
ETA: Soz, Rob
Seems you have already worked it out in an earlier post
I seem to remember that Kazlux was well known as a poster who was very much against the Mccanns .. a leading sceptic.
Please could others verify what I am saying, cos it was a long time ago
I notice that he has chosen to rubbish all the times given by the Mccanns, the Tapas group and many other witnesses (The majority, I think) who were talking about 22.00 hours being the time that Madeleine was first missed.
Has he cherry picked the witnesses he prefers to believe?
Can anyone think of a good reason why?
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I seem to remember that Kazlux was well known as a poster who was very much against the Mccanns .. a leading sceptic.
Please could others verify what I am saying, cos it was a long time ago
I notice that he has chosen to rubbish all the times given by the Mccanns, the Tapas group and many other witnesses (The majority, I think) who were talking about 22.00 hours being the time that Madeleine was first missed.
Has he cherry picked the witnesses he prefers to believe?
Can anyone think of a good reason why?
It doesn’t matter how the statements were picked. What matters is that a narrative CAN be built from the available statements that cast doubt on the friends timeline. No speculation, just evidence from the horse’s mouths.
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It doesn’t matter how the statements were picked. What matters is that a narrative CAN be built from the available statements that cast doubt on the friends timeline. No speculation, just evidence from the horse’s mouths.
snipped
22.50 pm - First call to GNR Lagos precinct (Guarda Nacional Republicana, rural police); The first call to Police Precinct of GNR (Portuguese Rural Police) in Lagos, reporting a missing child and asking for Police help was made at 10.50pm and a patrol was sent, arriving at Ocean Club 12/15 minutes later, according to Lieutenant-Colonel Costa Cabral, Head of Public Relations of GNR.
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It also casts doubt on the GNR's timeline.
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snipped
22.50 pm - First call to GNR Lagos precinct (Guarda Nacional Republicana, rural police); The first call to Police Precinct of GNR (Portuguese Rural Police) in Lagos, reporting a missing child and asking for Police help was made at 10.50pm and a patrol was sent, arriving at Ocean Club 12/15 minutes later, according to Lieutenant-Colonel Costa Cabral, Head of Public Relations of GNR.
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It also casts doubt on the GNR's timeline.
The first call to the GNR at Lagos was logged at 10.41pm and the second at 10.52pm.
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The first call to the GNR at Lagos was logged at 10.41pm.
I have always questioned the subject of the call at 10:41. We make the assumption it was re the McCann case but if the GNR say it was the later call re the McCann case I think we have to take their word for that.
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The first call to the GNR at Lagos was logged at 10.41pm.
Yes, I know......but that's not what is written in the timeline prepared by Kazlux for the PJ files. Is Kazlux providing false data or are the GNR phone records shown in the files inaccurate?
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I have always questioned the subject of the call at 10:41. We make the assumption it was re the McCann case but if the GNR say it was the later call re the McCann case I think we have to take their word for that.
Two calls were made from the OC switchboard. An initial alert call followed 11 minutes later by a request to hurry up. By the time the second call was made the GNR were on their way and arrived 8 minutes later at around 11pm.
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Two calls were made from the OC switchboard. An initial alert call followed 11 minutes later by a request to hurry up. By the time the second call was made the GNR were on their way and arrived 8 minutes later at around 11pm.
I have only seen this description made by the likes of the forum. The people making or receiving the calls have not described them this way AFAIK.
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Sadie's questions [Sadie I was trying to keep the other thread just for the references]
"Did Amaral allow this Kazlux insert his one sided report, thorough though it was, into the official files.... or not ?
Why was that tolerated?
Do you think that Kazlux has cherry picked a minority of witness statements to make it look as though Madeleine went missing earlier than the majority of witnesses report in their statements?
Did you notice that the most important and pertinent times in the Kazlux report, of when Madeleine actually was noticed missing, are all taken from the fewer people who disagreed with The Mccanns, the Tapas group and a number of other witnesses on the accepted timeline ?
IIRC, Kazlux was a leading opponent of everything to do with the Mccanns on the very aggressive and active 3 A's forum. Please correct me if I am wrong on that.
Could it have been what Amaral wanted Kazlux's report in the official files to help undermine the witness statements of the Mccanns, the Tapas group and others? *%6^
Can anyone think of any other reason why he allowed it amongst the official files?
Please note: There are no opinions in this post. It is just a series of questions"
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Yes, I know......but that's not what is written in the timeline prepared by Kazlux for the PJ files. Is Kazlux providing false data or are the GNR phone records shown in the files inaccurate?
In my opinion Kazlux is repeating Helder's statement, not endorsing it.
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In my opinion Kazlux is repeating Helder's statement, not endorsing it.
But was it Helder's statement in question?
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Sadie's questions [Sadie I was trying to keep the other thread just for the references]
"Did Amaral allow this Kazlux insert his one sided report, thorough though it was, into the official files.... or not ?
Why was that tolerated?
Do you think that Kazlux has cherry picked a minority of witness statements to make it look as though Madeleine went missing earlier than the majority of witnesses report in their statements?
Did you notice that the most important and pertinent times in the Kazlux report, of when Madeleine actually was noticed missing, are all taken from the fewer people who disagreed with The Mccanns, the Tapas group and a number of other witnesses on the accepted timeline ?
IIRC, Kazlux was a leading opponent of everything to do with the Mccanns on the very aggressive and active 3 A's forum. Please correct me if I am wrong on that.
Could it have been what Amaral wanted Kazlux's report in the official files to help undermine the witness statements of the Mccanns, the Tapas group and others? *%6^
Can anyone think of any other reason why he allowed it amongst the official files?
Please note: There are no opinions in this post. It is just a series of questions"
What is the date of this report? Was Amaral still around at that time ?
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What is the date of this report? Was Amaral still around at that time ?
It doesn't have a file date or file number. Other than the heading one would wonder if it was part of the official file.
Heading
"OFFICIAL INQUIRY FILES and DOCUMENTS
TIMELINE INFORMATION" Does that make it Official?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_INFORMATION.htm
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As I pointed out yesterday, it contained the information about the phone calls made that night by the McCanns and others. When was that information first made available? as the report has to have been collated after that date.
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As I pointed out yesterday, it contained the information about the phone calls made that night by the McCanns and others. When was that information first made available? as the report has to have been collated after that date.
I'm not an expert on that question, maybe Misty knows, or can we see the file this is covered in?
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Gosh! what are you suggesting? 8(0(*
Nothing in particular, other than attempting to answer the original question: IIRC, the document wasn't compiled by the PJ, but by one or more volunteers from the 3A crowd once the files had become public.
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Gosh! what are you suggesting? 8(0(*
Not a conspiracy surely? ^*&&
Timeline, timeline make it fit may have been order of the day, however As I keep saying-pointing out the obvious. The tapas group were adamant that they 'checked the children every half hour. SO how would a very stoopid person do this ... what did time they leave the apartment add on half hours to that until you get an accurate timeline.
Now we can see that just never happened did it. it was an as and when listening at door system they had. NOT a 'checking' every half hour at all.
So let us look at a real time line they left the apartment at****pm never saw Maddie alive again.? oh that moving door was just a god send.
As Maddie was never seen since her parents left her: inside covers as it was cold /outside covers it was too hot chose- your favourite version. Then Maddie could have disappeared from that room from put to bed -found missing. a good couple of hours! and of course we only have DP with his 'can't remember much about why he went to that apartment or what he did but claims he saw 3 well looked after children-little angels.
Time line hahahahaha
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In my opinion Kazlux is repeating Helder's statement, not endorsing it.
The statement about the GNR being called at 10.50pm is not related to Helder's testimony in the Kazlux analysis.
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It doesn't have a file date or file number. Other than the heading one would wonder if it was part of the official file.
Heading
"OFFICIAL INQUIRY FILES and DOCUMENTS
TIMELINE INFORMATION" Does that make it Official?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_INFORMATION.htm
In my opinion ... it does not.
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Nothing in particular, other than attempting to answer the original question: IIRC, the document wasn't compiled by the PJ, but by one or more volunteers from the 3A crowd once the files had become public.
Kazlux analysis
"Approx. 21.55 pm The Smith Family, (4 adults and 5 children) are returning from 'Kelly's Bar', heading north, all spread out along the street and they pass a man walking down the middle of the street, carrying a child, with the head against his left shoulder and the arms hanging down alongside the body, in light colored or pink pyjamas, bare feet, pale skin typical of British and blond, shoulder-length hair; the girl is about 3-4 years old, about 1 metre tall. - The man is not dressed like a tourist; he's wearing cream or beige trousers, classic cut, of linen or cotton. He is white, 30-35 yrs, 1.70-1.80 meters tall, average build, physically fit, short, brown hair, with a face that looks tanned. (GA)"
Kazlux makes direct reference to GA's words in TTOTL which was published after the final report was produced.
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Kazlux analysis
"Approx. 21.55 pm The Smith Family, (4 adults and 5 children) are returning from 'Kelly's Bar', heading north, all spread out along the street and they pass a man walking down the middle of the street, carrying a child, with the head against his left shoulder and the arms hanging down alongside the body, in light colored or pink pyjamas, bare feet, pale skin typical of British and blond, shoulder-length hair; the girl is about 3-4 years old, about 1 metre tall. - The man is not dressed like a tourist; he's wearing cream or beige trousers, classic cut, of linen or cotton. He is white, 30-35 yrs, 1.70-1.80 meters tall, average build, physically fit, short, brown hair, with a face that looks tanned. (GA)"
Kazlux makes direct reference to GA's words in TTOTL which was published after the final report was produced.
So a compilation of more than one source then, not just the files.
In any case, it's not a translation of an official PJ file as such.
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Burning question (for me at least) is are they accurate?
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So a compilation of more than one source then, not just the files.
In any case, it's not a translation of an official PJ file as such.
But is it true that it quotes from Amaral's book TTOTL and contains extracts of files not currently in the PJ files (in particular the first statements by Raj Balu and Neil Berry)?
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Nothing in particular, other than attempting to answer the original question: IIRC, the document wasn't compiled by the PJ, but by one or more volunteers from the 3A crowd once the files had become public.
Who then sent it to the Ministerio Pubkico for this to be added along with the MP title block ?:
"This information belongs to the Ministério Público in Portimão, Portugal.
It was released to the public on 4 August 2008 in accordance with Portuguese Law"
One is beginning to detect the aroma of bootleg.
Has anyone seen the original MP document from which the translation was made ?
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Who then sent it to the Ministerio Pubkico for this to be added along with the MP title block ?:
"This information belongs to the Ministério Público in Portimão, Portugal.
It was released to the public on 4 August 2008 in accordance with Portuguese Law"
One is beginning to detect the aroma of bootleg.
Has anyone seen the original MP document from which the translation was made ?
Did the age of the photocopier pass you by, Alice?!
There's another unofficial one here http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DELETED_CALLS.htm but at least its status is shown under the header.
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Did the age of the photocopier pass you by, Alice?!
There's another unofficial one here http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DELETED_CALLS.htm but at least its status is shown under the header.
"WITH THANKS TO PAULO REIS: LINK: FOR THE DETAILED ANALYSIS REPORT, IT IS FOR INFORMATION ONLY AND IS NOT PART OF THE OFFICIAL RELEASED PJ FILES."
How reliable was PAULO REIS? Have you looked at the content of that document? Does it ring accurate to you Misty?
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"WITH THANKS TO PAULO REIS: LINK: FOR THE DETAILED ANALYSIS REPORT, IT IS FOR INFORMATION ONLY AND IS NOT PART OF THE OFFICIAL RELEASED PJ FILES."
How reliable was PAULO REIS? Have you looked at the content of that document? Does it ring accurate to you Misty?
I think large parts of it are accurate, Rob, but it was prepared by Paulo Reis & associates which means that Duarte Levy had his finger in that particular pie (the two didn't part company until 9.7 2009).
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I think large parts of it are accurate, Rob, but it was prepared by Paulo Reis & associates which means that Duarte Levy had his finger in that particular pie (the two didn't part company until 9.7 2009).
Am I right in thinking those two had some special relationship to the PJ even possibly with GA?
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Am I right in thinking those two had some special relationship to the PJ even possibly with GA?
I really can't answer that question without choking.
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I really can't answer that question without choking.
I suppose it isn't fair just to have suspicion, but suspicion in your opinion, shouldn't really choke you.
Like from what I've seen, even without studying the topic, I have a suspicion (IMO) that those people had a convenient relationship when matters usually forbidden by judicial secrecy needed to be released in the papers.
In some ways it is confirmed by the deleted phone calls file.
The report of Aoife (Smith) sighting Gerry and Jez talking also smacks of an inner working between them.
That story must have been a nightmare for GA because if Aoife had seen Gerry prior to the Smithman sighting how come she did not recognise Gerry then. Or the other way he would have to explain what she was doing there?
IMO this situation is very disturbing but it is suspicion IMO.
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Did the age of the photocopier pass you by, Alice?!
There's another unofficial one here http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DELETED_CALLS.htm but at least its status is shown under the header.
Obviously;
Do you mean village readers and cleft stick runners are no longer in a job?
I did hear tell of clever Peruvians who used knotted strings with which they communicated.
I was more into Thuggee knots meself.... ?{)(**
So clue me in:
The files were realeased to the general pubkic in August 2008. Some one from 3A then made a copulation of data then sent it to the MP who Xeroxed [Banda'd?] it onto one their letter headings, bunged it in the files for 3A to find it again? Time travellers all complete with sonic screwdrivers *%87
I suppose that makes as much sense as a load more of it.
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Obviously;
Do you mean village readers and cleft stick runners are no longer in a job?
I did hear tell of clever Peruvians who used knotted strings with which they communicated.
I was more into Thuggee knots meself.... ?{)(**
So clue me in:
The files were realeased to the general pubkic in August 2008. Some one from 3A then made a copulation of data then sent it to the MP who Xeroxed [Banda'd?] it onto one their letter headings, bunged it in the files for 3A to find it again? Time travellers all complete with sonic screwdrivers *%87
I suppose that makes as much sense as a load more of it.
Take a look at the documents displayed on the original DVD. What do you notice?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PROCESSO_1a.htm
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I think large parts of it are accurate, Rob, but it was prepared by Paulo Reis & associates which means that Duarte Levy had his finger in that particular pie (the two didn't part company until 9.7 2009).
Looking to the end of that document "By Paulo Reis and associates
(*) This report is a result of cooperation with a leading international investigative firm that is in the closing stages of an 18 month intensive investigation that is expected to reopen the case in Portugal and to start new proceedings in the UK."
What was that about?
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Take a look at the documents displayed on the original DVD. What do you notice?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PROCESSO_1a.htm
Could you give us a clue Misty?
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Looking to the end of that document "By Paulo Reis and associates
(*) This report is a result of cooperation with a leading international investigative firm that is in the closing stages of an 18 month intensive investigation that is expected to reopen the case in Portugal and to start new proceedings in the UK."
What was that about?
No idea. That's one for Carana or someone else who has been on the case since Day 1.
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Take a look at the documents displayed on the original DVD. What do you notice?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PROCESSO_1a.htm
Loads of documents purporting to be the property of the Ministerio Publico either by virtue of the overall document heading or the presence of the MP watermark on individual sub documents.
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Loads of documents purporting to be the property of the Ministerio Publico either by virtue of the overall document heading or the presence of the MP watermark on individual sub documents.
But we have the English only versions of the rogatory interviews and there are no photos of the Portuguese translations of these. So a document with no watermarked original is not uncommon.
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Loads of documents purporting to be the property of the Ministerio Publico either by virtue of the overall document heading or the presence of the MP watermark on individual sub documents.
None of the individual documents has the coloured header on the DVD images. All the translated copies you see have been transposed onto ENGLISH language headed paper which enables whoever uploaded then to alter the translations should they so desire.
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But we have the English only versions of the rogatory interviews and there are no photos of the Portuguese translations of these. So a document with no watermarked original is not uncommon.
The rogatories were uploaded at a later time by Duarte Levy, who somehow managed to acquire them.
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The rogatories were uploaded at a later time by Duarte Levy, who somehow managed to acquire them.
This is getting worse! Have you got documented proof of that Misty?
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None of the individual documents has the coloured header on the DVD images. All the translated copies you see have been transposed onto ENGLISH language headed paper which enables whoever uploaded then to alter the translations should they so desire.
Can you post an example that shows the point that the document was "transposed onto ENGLISH language headed paper"?
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Can you post an example that shows the point that the document was "transposed onto ENGLISH language headed paper"?
Take any document from the original DVD files http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ORIGINAL_FILES.htm
& then look at the same document on the page order http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAGE_ORDER.htm
If the header belonged to the PJ, it would be in Portuguese.
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Take any document from the original DVD files http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ORIGINAL_FILES.htm
& then look at the same document on the page order http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAGE_ORDER.htm
If the header belonged to the PJ, it would be in Portuguese.
An actual example would be better.
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An actual example would be better.
Another clue, Rob. All those headed pages have a "Donate" button in the footer so if you think they have come from the original Portuguese DVD..........
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Another clue, Rob. All those headed pages have a "Donate" button in the footer so if you think they have come from the original Portuguese DVD..........
i'M NOT SO WORRIED about the donate button those websites cost money to maintain and host. I have not contributed myself but I sure would miss the PJ files if they were taken down.
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I have been Google searching Kazlux and it appears he was part of a team Not directly associate with the 3As.
http://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.co.nz/2009/05/bloggers-meet-with-mr-and-mrs-amaral.html
Bloggers meet with Sofia Leal and Gonçalo Amaral
By Kazlux
The 4 of us, bloggers, were shown in a room and when the Amaral couple came in, mrs. Amaral immediately asked who it was that set up the poll on the 3Arguidos?
When somebody in the company said not to know 3A she showed surprise and said that it was an important forum, she reads it often only has no time to post.
(later I asked her permission to quote her on this, and also on posting her picture, and she said of course, you can quote anything you like).
The questions/anwers (not verbatim but from my notes):
Q: Have you considered the possibility that Madeleine died on the previous night or even when mrs. Fenn heard the crying?
A: Naturally - the investigation begins with establishing if the person who disappeared, does actually exist and then, who was the last person to see her - the investigation shows clearly that she was last seen around 17.30.
Q: Have you any doubt as to the validity of Madeleine attending the creche on 3/5?
A: No doubt whatsoever.
Q. Do you think the case will definitely be opened soon?
A: We would like it to be reopened, in fact I wrote my book to prevent the shelving of the case, but it did not work out that way, the book actually came out one week after the case was shelved. The counterforces were very strong.
In the political climate of today, there is a movement leaning towards the reopening of the case.
Q: What is the most efficient way for us to help you?
A: To let it be known there is a certain pressure, from the pubic opinion.
Q: So it is useful, then, to write to the Prosecutor?
A: Yes, and also to the Justice Minister and Members of Parliament.
Q: Did the content of the 14 text messages have any relevance to the case?
A: No. But what IS relevant is that they deleted calls from their mobile phones.
Q: If the McCanns had been honest about Madeleine having died in an accidental manner, what would have been the juridical consequences in Portugal?
A: Almost none. A mild punishment for neglect. That is provided the body did not show signs of violence. In England, as in Germany, punishment for neglect of children is more severe.
Q: Do you think the McCanns knew that?
A: They have made a decision very fast. It is well possible they did not know about the law in Portugal, but not that they did not know the law in England.
Q: Are you hoping the McCanns will sue you?
A: Yes! (here he gave a Portugese metaphor about a bullfight, something about having to first entice the bull into the middle of the ring before the fight can start).
Q: Is it true, as was reported in De Telegraaf, that an injection needle was found in the apartment?
A: No, that is not true. In fact we have found no medication at all. None at all. Except for 'likdoornpleisters' = litt.: corn plasters (for your feet - sorry can't find a better translation).
Q: Do you think the children were sedated?
A: There is no doubt.
(Here he told an anecdote: that Kate called in august with (a colleague of mr. Amaral in the) PJ to ask them to check the twins for traces of sedation. Apparently Kate was alone when she called, and a bit upset. That same afternoon, Gerry called and cancelled the request.)
Q: What do you think is the meaning of the blood behind the sofa?
A: Possibly from an attempt at reanimation.
Q: At what time do you think the death has occured, given the fact that cadaver odor needs time to develop?
A: Cadaver odor begins to develop at the moment of death, due to chemical reactions in the body, it is not a matter of hours before it develops, to the nose of a dog which is very sensitive it can be detected very soon. More important is that from the inquiry we know that before the third of may nobody died in the apartment, nor in the car.
Q: There was a story in a newspaper that the dogs followed a trace to the beach, is that true?
A: No. Mark Harrison had made a schedule, a plan, for the dogs, where they should search. They have searched all the apartments, the villa, the cars, the church, the sewer pipes near the church, the beach, fields, but the only traces the dogs found were in the apartments and the car of the McCanns, some clothes, and the soft toy.
Q: Do you think the body was refrigerated?
A: Yes. The bodily fluid in the car show that. If the body had been buried there would have been mummification. The fact that there were fluids points to refrigeration.
Q: Where do you think the body was kept?
A: That is what we were trying to understand when I left the investigation. 15 alleles might not have been conclusive in the eyes of the Public Prosecutor, but for the investigation it was sufficient. The body must have been in the boot of the car. We want to know who drove the car, who was behind the wheel.
On the picture you see mrs. Amaral with the 3A question list and the Rosiepops book info in her hand.
-----
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Another area where we can see the amount of work Kazlux put into the case is a file where thing are broken up into different subjects to the McCannfiles divisions http://themaddiecasefiles.com/maddie-mccann-case-files-f3/
"Maddie McCann case files" Could be helpful.
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Who then sent it to the Ministerio Pubkico for this to be added along with the MP title block ?:
"This information belongs to the Ministério Público in Portimão, Portugal.
It was released to the public on 4 August 2008 in accordance with Portuguese Law"
One is beginning to detect the aroma of bootleg.
Has anyone seen the original MP document from which the translation was made ?
Alice, there are (or at least were) several documents on that site that aren't actually part of the files - but which aren't necessarily marked as post-release compilations or "analysis" by the various armchair detectives.
There's the timeline one, the deleted calls or SMSs, this re forensic items for return http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm#p13p3465-3466jl , * plus a few more that I can't remember offhand.
At the time, I suppose these "extra" bits were uploaded to Pamalam's site as they were deemed to be useful. I've never cross-checked them all, but I expect that most of it is accurate, but I wouldn't rely on them.
* For clarification: Return of samples. Cross-reference to Lowe(final) and Palmer reports
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Alice, there are (or at least were) several documents on that site that aren't actually part of the files - but which aren't necessarily marked as post-release compilations or "analysis" by the various armchair detectives.
There's the timeline one, the deleted calls or SMSs, this re forensic items for return http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm#p13p3465-3466jl , plus a few more that I can't remember offhand.
At the time, I suppose these "extra" bits were uploaded to Pamalam's site as they were deemed to be useful. I've never cross-checked them all, but I expect that most of it is accurate, but I wouldn't rely on them.
As none of us are actually doing anything useful on here, that shouldn't be to much of a problem.
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Looking to the end of that document "By Paulo Reis and associates
(*) This report is a result of cooperation with a leading international investigative firm that is in the closing stages of an 18 month intensive investigation that is expected to reopen the case in Portugal and to start new proceedings in the UK."
What was that about?
As it would take ages to find traces of that now, I guess it should be filed as "IMO" and I can't find Paulo's original blog any longer.
A group of 3A armchair detectives, at least one of whom boasted of being a real one, somehow got Paulo to post their "work" on his blog along with a paragraph or so from him (relatively easy to detect as the difference in English was quite obvious).
Another one (also by "Reis & co") was that the same group was convinced that the crèche signatures were all fake and the so-called head "detective" was sending (or had sent) the sheets to Qantico or somewhere for "forensic analysis". One version was that it was for a handwriting analysis.
The funniest version (wherever I first noticed it on the web which may not have been on his blog and therefore may have been a spoof exaggeration of their initial initiative) was supposedly for forensic ink analysis. Unless they were intending to steal the original crèche sheets (and I'm not sure what that would have proved other than someone used a different pen from one day to the next) ... what exactly were the FBI or other agency supposed to analyse? Photocopying or fax ink?
Proving that the sheets were forged was supposed to blow the whole case apart and expose the massive "cover-up".
Despite several posts over time that results were "imminent", the group eventually faded away into obscurity.
-
I have been Google searching Kazlux and it appears he was part of a team Not directly associate with the 3As.
http://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.co.nz/2009/05/bloggers-meet-with-mr-and-mrs-amaral.html
Bloggers meet with Sofia Leal and Gonçalo Amaral
By Kazlux
The 4 of us, bloggers, were shown in a room and when the Amaral couple came in, mrs. Amaral immediately asked who it was that set up the poll on the 3Arguidos?
When somebody in the company said not to know 3A she showed surprise and said that it was an important forum, she reads it often only has no time to post.
(later I asked her permission to quote her on this, and also on posting her picture, and she said of course, you can quote anything you like).
The questions/anwers (not verbatim but from my notes):
Q: Have you considered the possibility that Madeleine died on the previous night or even when mrs. Fenn heard the crying?
A: Naturally - the investigation begins with establishing if the person who disappeared, does actually exist and then, who was the last person to see her - the investigation shows clearly that she was last seen around 17.30.
Q: Have you any doubt as to the validity of Madeleine attending the creche on 3/5?
A: No doubt whatsoever.
Q. Do you think the case will definitely be opened soon?
A: We would like it to be reopened, in fact I wrote my book to prevent the shelving of the case, but it did not work out that way, the book actually came out one week after the case was shelved. The counterforces were very strong.
In the political climate of today, there is a movement leaning towards the reopening of the case.
Q: What is the most efficient way for us to help you?
A: To let it be known there is a certain pressure, from the pubic opinion.
Q: So it is useful, then, to write to the Prosecutor?
A: Yes, and also to the Justice Minister and Members of Parliament.
Q: Did the content of the 14 text messages have any relevance to the case?
A: No. But what IS relevant is that they deleted calls from their mobile phones.
Q: If the McCanns had been honest about Madeleine having died in an accidental manner, what would have been the juridical consequences in Portugal?
A: Almost none. A mild punishment for neglect. That is provided the body did not show signs of violence. In England, as in Germany, punishment for neglect of children is more severe.
Q: Do you think the McCanns knew that?
A: They have made a decision very fast. It is well possible they did not know about the law in Portugal, but not that they did not know the law in England.
Q: Are you hoping the McCanns will sue you?
A: Yes! (here he gave a Portugese metaphor about a bullfight, something about having to first entice the bull into the middle of the ring before the fight can start).
Q: Is it true, as was reported in De Telegraaf, that an injection needle was found in the apartment?
A: No, that is not true. In fact we have found no medication at all. None at all. Except for 'likdoornpleisters' = litt.: corn plasters (for your feet - sorry can't find a better translation).
Q: Do you think the children were sedated?
A: There is no doubt.
(Here he told an anecdote: that Kate called in august with (a colleague of mr. Amaral in the) PJ to ask them to check the twins for traces of sedation. Apparently Kate was alone when she called, and a bit upset. That same afternoon, Gerry called and cancelled the request.)
Q: What do you think is the meaning of the blood behind the sofa?
A: Possibly from an attempt at reanimation.
Q: At what time do you think the death has occured, given the fact that cadaver odor needs time to develop?
A: Cadaver odor begins to develop at the moment of death, due to chemical reactions in the body, it is not a matter of hours before it develops, to the nose of a dog which is very sensitive it can be detected very soon. More important is that from the inquiry we know that before the third of may nobody died in the apartment, nor in the car.
Q: There was a story in a newspaper that the dogs followed a trace to the beach, is that true?
A: No. Mark Harrison had made a schedule, a plan, for the dogs, where they should search. They have searched all the apartments, the villa, the cars, the church, the sewer pipes near the church, the beach, fields, but the only traces the dogs found were in the apartments and the car of the McCanns, some clothes, and the soft toy.
Q: Do you think the body was refrigerated?
A: Yes. The bodily fluid in the car show that. If the body had been buried there would have been mummification. The fact that there were fluids points to refrigeration.
Q: Where do you think the body was kept?
A: That is what we were trying to understand when I left the investigation. 15 alleles might not have been conclusive in the eyes of the Public Prosecutor, but for the investigation it was sufficient. The body must have been in the boot of the car. We want to know who drove the car, who was behind the wheel.
On the picture you see mrs. Amaral with the 3A question list and the Rosiepops book info in her hand.
-----
There's a lot of love pouring out to you three from around the world right now.
Thanks Joana, Astro, and Kazlux!
https://joana-morais.blogspot.co.uk/2009/08/maddie-case-files.html
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There's a lot of love pouring out to you three from around the world right now.
Thanks Joana, Astro, and Kazlux!
https://joana-morais.blogspot.co.uk/2009/08/maddie-case-files.html
Were they the three amigas?
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Were they the three amigas?
Not sure what you mean.
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Not sure what you mean.
In that link there were two statements :"The Three Amigas! What a great team. It feels like I've come home!"
and "What a terrible amount of work, 3 Amigas." There was tlk of of a forum often referred to as 3A, the three Amigas, I presumed.
or was it "the 3 Arguidos"?
In your post on page 2 you said "However, from memory, it was one or more people who went through the files for timeline info and made a compilation back in the days of 3A."
What does the A stand for?
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In that link there were two statements :"The Three Amigas! What a great team. It feels like I've come home!"
and "What a terrible amount of work, 3 Amigas." There was tlk of of a forum often referred to as 3A, the three Amigas, I presumed.
or was it "the 3 Arguidos"?
In your post on page 2 you said "However, from memory, it was one or more people who went through the files for timeline info and made a compilation back in the days of 3A."
What does the A stand for?
3A = 3 Arguidos (Murat + McCanns).
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3A = 3 Arguidos (Murat + McCanns).
Actually there were four arguidos in that equation ... but that was and remains sub rosa for many.
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Actually there were four arguidos in that equation ... but that was and remains sub rosa for many.
I don't recall a 4th arguido from that time. Various people who may have been considered as suspects, but not with arguido status. There were only 3 whose status was lifted in the archiving report.
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I don't recall a 4th arguido from that time. Various people who may have been considered as suspects, but not with arguido status. There were only 3 whose status was lifted in the archiving report.
Amaral
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I don't recall a 4th arguido from that time. Various people who may have been considered as suspects, but not with arguido status. There were only 3 whose status was lifted in the archiving report.
Certainly only 3 suspected of being involved in Madeleine's disappearance.
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Amaral
Ah. Yes. The first arguido associated with the case, in fact, but not directly related to Madeleine's disappearance.
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Ah. Yes. The first arguido associated with the case, in fact, but not directly related to Madeleine's disappearance.
But a Convicted Arguido never the less.
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Alice, there are (or at least were) several documents on that site that aren't actually part of the files - but which aren't necessarily marked as post-release compilations or "analysis" by the various armchair detectives.
There's the timeline one, the deleted calls or SMSs, this re forensic items for return http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm#p13p3465-3466jl , * plus a few more that I can't remember offhand.
At the time, I suppose these "extra" bits were uploaded to Pamalam's site as they were deemed to be useful. I've never cross-checked them all, but I expect that most of it is accurate, but I wouldn't rely on them.
* For clarification: Return of samples. Cross-reference to Lowe(final) and Palmer reports
Being a trusting soul the only thing I would rely on would be the documents held by the MP to which the public have access on request, after the filing process.
You must admit the prospect of two sides arguing for ten years over documents that turn out to have been bootlegged to suit a few agenda's is a real gasser. I wonder if the MP could see which way it was going and took the unusual step of issuing the CD for purely mischievous purposes?
Well it is plausible.
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Actually there were four arguidos in that equation ... but that was and remains sub rosa for many.
Is that posh for "under Ena Harkness"?
Or a subtle "it is cast into a bridge buttress on the A505 near Hitchin Herts"? [scratchin' meks it worse]
Ready steady GOOGLE... 8(0(*
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Being a trusting soul the only thing I would rely on would be the documents held by the MP to which the public have access on request, after the filing process.
You must admit the prospect of two sides arguing for ten years over documents that turn out to have been bootlegged to suit a few agenda's is a real gasser. I wonder if the MP could see which way it was going and took the unusual step of issuing the CD for purely mischievous purposes?
Well it is plausible.
I doubt that there was any mischievous purpose. In theory, post-ruling files could be accessed by "interested parties" (although I'm not certain who qualifies).
In view of the media frenzy, issuing the files on a CD may simply have been an expedient way of getting rid of the media rabble as fast as possible, as opposed to having to deal with a potentially huge queue for a photocopier or other means of access.
My understanding is that making the files accessible, post-ruling, is part of Portugal's post-dictatorship transparency measures, but the idea was that journalists could report on the contents, but they weren't intended to be uploaded. The fact that they were is history.
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I doubt that there was any mischievous purpose. In theory, post-ruling files could be accessed by "interested parties" (although I'm not certain who qualifies).
In view of the media frenzy, issuing the files on a CD may simply have been an expedient way of getting rid of the media rabble as fast as possible, as opposed to having to deal with a potentially huge queue for a photocopier or other means of access.
My understanding is that making the files accessible, post-ruling, is part of Portugal's post-dictatorship transparency measures, but the idea was that journalists could report on the contents, but they weren't intended to be uploaded. The fact that they were is history.
In this instance I fear we are but heads and harps of the same coin.... ?{)(**
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As it would take ages to find traces of that now, I guess it should be filed as "IMO" and I can't find Paulo's original blog any longer.
A group of 3A armchair detectives, at least one of whom boasted of being a real one, somehow got Paulo to post their "work" on his blog along with a paragraph or so from him (relatively easy to detect as the difference in English was quite obvious).
Another one (also by "Reis & co") was that the same group was convinced that the crèche signatures were all fake and the so-called head "detective" was sending (or had sent) the sheets to Qantico or somewhere for "forensic analysis". One version was that it was for a handwriting analysis.
The funniest version (wherever I first noticed it on the web which may not have been on his blog and therefore may have been a spoof exaggeration of their initial initiative) was supposedly for forensic ink analysis. Unless they were intending to steal the original crèche sheets (and I'm not sure what that would have proved other than someone used a different pen from one day to the next) ... what exactly were the FBI or other agency supposed to analyse? Photocopying or fax ink?
Proving that the sheets were forged was supposed to blow the whole case apart and expose the massive "cover-up".
Despite several posts over time that results were "imminent", the group eventually faded away into obscurity.
My blog is where it was always: https://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/
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As it would take ages to find traces of that now, I guess it should be filed as "IMO" and I can't find Paulo's original blog any longer.
A group of 3A armchair detectives, at least one of whom boasted of being a real one, somehow got Paulo to post their "work" on his blog along with a paragraph or so from him (relatively easy to detect as the difference in English was quite obvious).
Another one (also by "Reis & co") was that the same group was convinced that the crèche signatures were all fake and the so-called head "detective" was sending (or had sent) the sheets to Qantico or somewhere for "forensic analysis". One version was that it was for a handwriting analysis.
The funniest version (wherever I first noticed it on the web which may not have been on his blog and therefore may have been a spoof exaggeration of their initial initiative) was supposedly for forensic ink analysis. Unless they were intending to steal the original crèche sheets (and I'm not sure what that would have proved other than someone used a different pen from one day to the next) ... what exactly were the FBI or other agency supposed to analyse? Photocopying or fax ink?
Proving that the sheets were forged was supposed to blow the whole case apart and expose the massive "cover-up".
Despite several posts over time that results were "imminent", the group eventually faded away into obscurity.
Tha post is easy to find, in my blog: https://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/2008/12/more-on-deleted-call-records.html
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Tha post is easy to find, in my blog: https://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/2008/12/more-on-deleted-call-records.html
Hi Paulo & welcome.
Do you know who was responsible for copying all the phone records onto spreadsheets as some of the Portuguese ones have English words inserted?
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Tha post is easy to find, in my blog: https://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/2008/12/more-on-deleted-call-records.html
Hello Paulo,
Could you clarify something, please?
The rogatory interviews weren't on the DVD. My recollection is that you requested them, and received them as a legitimate request from... which entity? How they then got uploladed is ancient history - my interest is in how they were obtained in the first place.
As I've said several times, you were always careful to stay within the law.
ETA: typo corrected
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My blog is where it was always: https://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/
Was that post all your own, or did you receive "help" from various volunteers?
I suspect that you trusted some people at a certain moment in time (who hasn't?) and that you agreed to host it with a few comments of your own. The style of English isn't the same throughout, for a start - and I very much doubt that you would have expressed yourself in what some may consider to be rude terms towards the McCanns. Towards the media is a different issue.
If that's not the case, whatever happened to the imminent analysis of the creche record ink that was supposed to prove fraudulent signatures? That goes back almost to the time of the infamous 24 photos saga.
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Is that posh for "under Ena Harkness"?
Or a subtle "it is cast into a bridge buttress on the A505 near Hitchin Herts"? [scratchin' meks it worse]
Ready steady GOOGLE... 8(0(*
Hahahahahahaha. sub rosa indeed! sheer entertainment! don't bother gooling it means 'secret'
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Tha post is easy to find, in my blog: https://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/2008/12/more-on-deleted-call-records.html
Excellent post, very informative. It must have been hell for the Team McCann when they found out the case was blown wide open, to the world.... the same world whch was told of an abduction. innocent parents and all that jazz there was no longer sub rosa for the group..
lol