UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Robittybob1 on March 28, 2018, 09:45:22 PM
-
Amaral quotes Brian Healy saying the parents quite often gave the kids Calpol to get them to sleep.
How he came to know this (IIRC) is what I'd like to know?
583
-
Amaral quotes Brian Healy saying the parents quite often gave the kids Calpol to get them to sleep.
How he came to know this (IIRC) is what I'd like to know?
as far as I remember there was a mention of calpol.....most parents give children calpol as necessarry...its a very useful drug...itb was mentioned in a tv interview...pleas provide a cite
-
as far as I remember there was a mention of calpol.....most parents give children calpol as necessarry...its a very useful drug...itb was mentioned in a tv interview...pleas provide a cite
TV interview - who was being interviewed Amaral or Healy?
-
Do you remember the what I'm talking about? Amaral quotes Brian Healy saying the parents quite often gave the kids Calpol to get them to sleep.
How he came to know this (IIRC) is what I'd like to know?
cite for...giving calpol to get them to sleep.
-
cite for...giving calpol to get them to sleep.
That is the $64,000 question.
-
https://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.co.nz/2007/09/madeleines-grandfather-admits-kate-may.html
"Saturday, 8 September 2007
MADELEINE'S GRANDFATHER ADMITS KATE “MAY HAVE USED CALPOL”
Brian Healy, the father of Kate McCann, admitted she “may have used Calpol” to help Madeleine to sleep, but said it was “just outrageous to think of anything else." Gerry and Kate strongly denied, on August 16, using any kind of drugs on their children to stop them waking up at night. Calpol is a common painkiller that is used, in UK, to to calm them down or help children to sleep. Twelve million bottles and packets of Calpol are sold every year, in UK."
So how did Paulo Reis get to know about it?
-
"Distant in time Kate's father, the grandfather of the minor, Brian Healy, admits to the press that Kate could have administered some medication to the little girl, Calpol, to help the child (children'') to sleep, contrary to what his daughter Kate had stated."
Another version comes from "http://themaddiecasefiles.com/chief-inspector-tavares-de-almeida-s-report-sept-2-t34.html"
"Chief Inspector Tavares de Almeida's Report Sept 2007"
"Distant in time, Kate’s father, the grandfather of the child, Brian Healy, admits to the press that Kate could have administered some medication to the little girl, Calpol, to help the child (the children??) to sleep, contrary to what his daughter Kate has been stating."
So the PJ blame the media for releasing the information but was there an actual media report on this discussion with Brian Healy?
-
OK I haven't found where Amaral quotes Tavares yet but it isn't impossible to see that happening.
-
Here is evidence of an early interview with Brian Healy https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/may/05/world.topstories31:
"Guardian Today: the headlines, the analysis, the debate - sent direct to you
Read more
Mark Warner, the holiday firm which runs the luxury resort, claimed last night there was no sign of a break in at the ground floor apartment overlooking the sea. But Brian Healy, Madeleine's maternal grandfather, told the Guardian his son-in-law had phoned him shortly after returning to the apartment from a nearby restaurant to find Madeleine had disappeared.
"Gerry told me when they went back the shutters to the room were broken, they were jemmied up and she was gone," said Mr Healy. "She'd been taken from the chalet. The door was open."
Mr Healy flew to Portugal yesterday to lend support to his daughter Kate, 39, who is a Leicester GP, and son-in-law Gerry, 38, a consultant cardiologist at the city's Glenfield Hospital. He denied suggestions that the couple had simply left their three children alone while they ate in a restaurant.
"It is not right to say that they just left them," said Mr Healy. "They could see the chalet from where they were sitting in the restaurant, they were a hundred yards away. They went back every half hour to check on the children. When they returned at the end of their meal she was gone. My daughter can hardly speak. She is distraught, she is crying and in shock.""
On Google search results it says "Gonçalo Amaral, Fact of the Fiction: Reflections on That Court Ruling
amaralfiction.blogspot.com/2010/10/reflections-on-that-court-ruling.html
Calpol is mentioned in the file. Both Gerry and Kate told the PJ frankly that they had it with them on that holiday, but didn't use it. Amaral says that Kate's father, Brian Healy, confirmed that the McCanns gave Madeleine Calpol as a sedative. Brian Healy did no such thing. A Sun reporter interviewing Mr Healy added words of ..."
But the link is to a blog where you have to be invited to join and read.
-
Amaral quotes Brian Healy saying the parents quite often gave the kids Calpol to get them to sleep.
How he came to know this (IIRC) is what I'd like to know?
I think I know what you're talking about. A short Sky interview (I think, from memory). But Mr Healy didn't say "to get them to sleep", but it got twisted when it then got reported in a PT tabloid.
You had already dug it out, Rob lol
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7852.msg372894#msg372894
And here's where it got twisted (although the PT tabloid quotes the Sun, which isn't best known for accuracy either) and the tabloid piece ended up in the files, presumably as "fact".
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P10/10VOLUME_Xa_Page_2585.jpg
-
I think I know what you're talking about. A short Sky interview (I think, from memory). But Mr Healy didn't say "to get them to sleep", but it got twisted when it then got reported in a PT tabloid.
You had already dug it out, Rob lol
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7852.msg372894#msg372894
And here's where it got twisted (although the PT tabloid quotes the Sun, which isn't best known for accuracy either) and the tabloid piece ended up in the files, presumably as "fact".
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P10/10VOLUME_Xa_Page_2585.jpg
(http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P10/10VOLUME_Xa_Page_2585.jpg)
That photo is that part of the PJ file? Where was that supposed to have come from?
-
I might have worked it out:
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BIBLE.htm#p10p3285
"2585 Copy of news article regarding grandmother's statement on the use of Calpol
10 Processos Vol X Page 2585
'Copy of news article regarding McCann's use of medication."
At the end of that link is a another part called "Diary Conclusion" http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BIBLE.htm#p17p4486
Obviously the Judge is talking about the photocopied version of the diary:
"4488 Dispatches 25-26 June 2008 re: photocopies of KMH diary and their destruction
17 Process Vol XVII Page 4488
17_VOLUME_XVIIa_Page_4488
Conclusion 26-06-2008
(Presents invoice)
The photocopies of the 'diary' do not contain any material of interest to the ongoing investigation, but relate to the personal and inviolable personal experiences of any person.
Accordingly I order the diary's respective destruction.
Portimao
2008-06-27
Pedro Frias
Criminal Instruction Judge
-
(http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P10/10VOLUME_Xa_Page_2585.jpg)
That photo is that part of the PJ file? Where was that supposed to have come from?
Look at the top-right hand corner - it's page 2585 of the files.
Not sure which tabloid it's from.
-
Look at the top-right hand corner - it's page 2585 of the files.
Not sure which tabloid it's from.
Noticed that thanks.
http://portugalresident.com/amaral-breaks-his-silence "It was an hour of ‘no mercy’. No inconvenient detail excluded. The “servility to the British” and to “political pressures”, the almost instant arrival on the scene of the British ambassador and press hordes, the allusion to children sedated by Calpol, the presence of “the investigation’s most enigmatic figure”, McCann friend and fellow doctor David Payne - whose “fetish”, said Amaral, was to bathe the children of other friends - and the spine-chilling reactions of blood and cadaver dogs Eddie and Keela."
He might well have just made insinuations that the parents used Calpol. Well he fooled me.
-
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/kate-mccann-s-parents-hit-out-at-scurrilous-16-10--t11700.html
Covers the rumours about the McCanns from the Healy's point of view.
-
A transcript: http://frommybigdesk.blogspot.co.nz/2009_08_07_archive.html
19 Madeleine McCann: L'Enquête Interdite - The Truth of The Lie - Chapter 19
"TOWARDS PLACING THE McCANN COUPLE UNDER INVESTIGATION."
part:
"It is only three months later that Kate speaks about this possibility, suggesting that the police proceed with these tests. The National Institute of Forensic Medicine let's us know that before proceeding with this screening, they would need to know what type of sedative they were looking for. There are hundreds of them on the market. While the grandfather stated on television that Kate gave Calpol to the children to get them to sleep, several months have gone by since May 3rd. Kate, who is a doctor, must be aware that the time for obtaining convincing results has largely passed.
-
Warning to all posters:
As we approach the Easter weekend I want to make it very clear that continued disruptive behaviour will NOT be tolerated, sanctions will be applied where necessary. As a sign of goodwill however ahead of the holidays, I am revoking all warning points.
Moderators are expected to lead by example but should those moderating skills fall short of what is expected, permissions will be revoked.
Have a great Easter everyone but please keep the above in mind before commenting.
-
It is disgusting how Kate's father was used against Kate.
He was asked if the McCann's ever give drugs to their children to help them sleep. He said no, the only thing he had ever seen Kate and Gerry give Madeleine was Calpol. Which is something that most mothers use when their child has a cold or is running a temperature. He didn't say they had given it to help the children sleep, or that they had given it on holiday in Portugal, all he said was that Calpol was the only thing he had seen the McCann's give Madeleine. Amaral then said in his book that the McCann's give the children Calpol to help them sleep, which is ridiculous. IMO
-
A transcript: http://frommybigdesk.blogspot.co.nz/2009_08_07_archive.html
19 Madeleine McCann: L'Enquête Interdite - The Truth of The Lie - Chapter 19
"TOWARDS PLACING THE McCANN COUPLE UNDER INVESTIGATION."
part:
"It is only three months later that Kate speaks about this possibility, suggesting that the police proceed with these tests. The National Institute of Forensic Medicine let's us know that before proceeding with this screening, they would need to know what type of sedative they were looking for. There are hundreds of them on the market. While the grandfather stated on television that Kate gave Calpol to the children to get them to sleep, several months have gone by since May 3rd. Kate, who is a doctor, must be aware that the time for obtaining convincing results has largely passed.
He could have asked for one of his team who understood English, or his UK counterparts to check what Brian Healy actually said, as opposed to relying on a PT tabloid account of a UK tabloid account...
Or is taking whatever tabloids happen to print as factual an example of investigative best practice?
On the other hand, where would the Sky / BBC interviewer (whichever it was) have got the idea to even ask, bearing in mind that this was part of the PT media blitz of leaks from early-mid September 07? Was this another naughty fan issue?
-
It is disgusting how Kate's father was used against Kate.
He was asked if the McCann's ever give drugs to their children to help them sleep. He said no, the only thing he had ever seen Kate and Gerry give Madeleine was Calpol. Which is something that most mothers use when their child has a cold or is running a temperature. He didn't say they had given it to help the children sleep, or that they had given it on holiday in Portugal, all he said was that Calpol was the only thing he had seen the McCann's give Madeleine. Amaral then said in his book that the McCann's give the children Calpol to help them sleep, which is ridiculous. IMO
I agree to some extent but if something stronger was administered he wouldn't know anything about it.
-
He could have asked for one of his team who understood English, or his UK counterparts to check what Brian Healy actually said, as opposed to relying on a PT tabloid account of a UK tabloid account...
Or is taking whatever tabloids happen to print as factual an example of investigative best practice?
On the other hand, where would the Sky / BBC interviewer (whichever it was) have got the idea to even ask, bearing in mind that this was part of the PT media blitz of leaks from early-mid September 07? Was this another naughty fan issue?
I was quite surprised that the Healys had not made statements.
-
I was quite surprised that the Healys had not made statements.
To say what?
-
I agree to some extent but if something stronger was administered he wouldn't know anything about it.
He said he had only seen the McCann's administer Calpol, yet that was used in Amaral's book as being the drug to help the children sleep.
I really feel for Kate's Dad, he is ill and then what he said was twisted, I bet he can't help but feel he had made the situation worse. Making a person who is already ill carry a burden like that, shame on Amaral. IMO
-
To say what?
About the same issues the PJ were raising in the arguido questions to Kate.
-
About the same issues the PJ were raising in the arguido questions to Kate.
The Rebelo PJ team did want to question Brian Healy - it was refused due to his frail health. They also wanted various toddlers interviewed, also refused. It's not clear if the PJ realised that they were just toddlers...
-
The Rebelo PJ team did want to question Brian Healy - it was refused due to his frail health. They also wanted various toddlers interviewed, also refused. It's not clear if the PJ realised that they were just toddlers...
Have you got cites for the refusal? Who refused? They had flown to Portugal on the 4th so they weren't that frail at the time IMO as they were giving interviews to the papers.
-
Have you got cites for the refusal? Who refused? They had flown to Portugal on the 4th so they weren't that frail at the time IMO as they were giving interviews to the papers.
Main request
Page 41 ? we have concerns about the approach to Brian Healy, Kate McCann?s father and the suggested line of questioning. As currently drafted, we do not feel there is sufficient connection between what is alleged and what is being requested. Can you assist?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FRANCES_KENNAH.htm
Re the toddlers:
19. Page 46 (PJ Ref VII) Interview Chxxxxx GORDON - Chxxxxx is a very young child, therefore he was not interviewed.
20. Page 46 (PJ Ref VII) Interview Jaxxxxx GORDON - Jaxxxxx is a very young child, therefore she was not interviewed.
ETA: Technically not refused, but it got dropped upon a request for clarification.
-
He could have asked for one of his team who understood English, or his UK counterparts to check what Brian Healy actually said, as opposed to relying on a PT tabloid account of a UK tabloid account...
Or is taking whatever tabloids happen to print as factual an example of investigative best practice?
On the other hand, where would the Sky / BBC interviewer (whichever it was) have got the idea to even ask, bearing in mind that this was part of the PT media blitz of leaks from early-mid September 07? Was this another naughty fan issue?
There is that much chaff flying about in this case you will I fear be hard pressed to identify the originator of any of it. In the shadows we have "pals" "a source close to [fill in what you like here]" an other such non specific terms.
imo an exercise in futility.
To paraphrse the late Robert Mitchum ".......it's all true make up some more of you like"
-
There is that much chaff flying about in this case you will I fear be hard pressed to identify the originator of any of it. In the shadows we have "pals" "a source close to [fill in what you like here]" an other such non specific terms.
imo an exercise in futility.
To paraphrse the late Robert Mitchum ".......it's all true make up some more of you like"
Yes, I know. I have found it fascinating to try to find where potential rumours that grew arms and legs actually originated. Not all from the PJ - some were just invented no doubt by a couple of young hacks with 16 pages to fill from a desk on a weekend and on their own (cf Leveson). I've found that many could well have been garbled half-truths which then got progressively morphed beyond all recognition... and that's before various bloggers selectively quoted to build new narratives, which then became the new accepted "facts".
-
Calpol is often given to children at bedtime to reduce temperature and reduce pain and aid in going to sleep. It is even possible Calpol becomes a conditioned reflex to get kids to sleep hence the calpol generation. All IMO but one that many people would recognise.
-
Calpol is often given to children at bedtime to reduce temperature and reduce pain and aid in going to sleep. It is even possible Calpol becomes a conditioned reflex to get kids to sleep hence the calpol generation. All IMO but one that many people would recognise.
What is this Calpol Generation...12 million bottles sold per year...is that about one per child per year...are you a parent. ...Calpol was the medicine of choice for pain and temperature...I have seen no real evidence of it being misused...
calpol is not just given at bedtime...its given throughout the day
-
Calpol is often given to children at bedtime to reduce temperature and reduce pain and aid in going to sleep. It is even possible Calpol becomes a conditioned reflex to get kids to sleep hence the calpol generation. All IMO but one that many people would recognise.
Can you expand on the " Calpol generation"
Is there some research into this, having had children in the seventies and grand children in the late nineties and early
years of the millennium it's not an expression that I am familiar with.
Some explanation of this phrase would be helpful.
I have bottle of said medicine in the fridge at present
-
Can you expand on the " Calpol generation"
Is there some research into this, having had children in the seventies and grand children in the late nineties and early
years of the millennium it's not an expression that I am familiar with.
Some explanation of this phrase would be helpful.
I have bottle of said medicine in the fridge at present
I think its another one of those myths...a mention in a newspaper does not a fact make
-
I think its another one of those myths...a mention in a newspaper does not a fact make
And yet the myth continues
-
The old if in doubt attack option instead of a sensible discussion.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/children/10312778/Keep-calm-and-carry-on-taking-the-Calpol.html (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/children/10312778/Keep-calm-and-carry-on-taking-the-Calpol.html)
https://annaraccoon.com/2009/03/02/the-calpol-generation-of-home-alone-kids/ (https://annaraccoon.com/2009/03/02/the-calpol-generation-of-home-alone-kids/)
https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/7952-calpol-how-often-is-too-often (https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/7952-calpol-how-often-is-too-often)
https://www.newstatesman.com/lifestyle/2014/04/baby-manifesto-no-avocado-yes-calpol (https://www.newstatesman.com/lifestyle/2014/04/baby-manifesto-no-avocado-yes-calpol)
-
There seems to be some kind of arcane inverse rule operating here re children's response to a dose of Calpol v some adults response to talking about a childs reaction to Calpol.
Give a kid calpol and they cease to have a mardy.
Talk about it and some adults have a severe mardy !?
-
There seems to be some kind of arcane inverse rule operating here re children's response to a dose of Calpol v some adults response to talking about a childs reaction to Calpol.
Give a kid calpol and they cease to have a mardy.
Talk about it and some adults have a severe mardy !?
There's no doubt a thread on the Calpol non-issue on here, Alice. ;)
-
The old if in doubt attack option instead of a sensible discussion.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/children/10312778/Keep-calm-and-carry-on-taking-the-Calpol.html (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/children/10312778/Keep-calm-and-carry-on-taking-the-Calpol.html)
https://annaraccoon.com/2009/03/02/the-calpol-generation-of-home-alone-kids/ (https://annaraccoon.com/2009/03/02/the-calpol-generation-of-home-alone-kids/)
https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/7952-calpol-how-often-is-too-often (https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/7952-calpol-how-often-is-too-often)
https://www.newstatesman.com/lifestyle/2014/04/baby-manifesto-no-avocado-yes-calpol (https://www.newstatesman.com/lifestyle/2014/04/baby-manifesto-no-avocado-yes-calpol)
I asked you for evidence and all you quote are less than half a dozen opinions of people with no data to back it up....
where is the real evidence...not mumsnet...that calpol is being abused...Im more than happy to have a real discussion
-
I asked you for evidence and all you quote are less than half a dozen opinions of people with no data to back it up....
where is the real evidence...not mumsnet...that calpol is being abused...Im more than happy to have a real discussion
If you don’t think there are a signifant number of kids who get a dose of calpol when they are restless/under the weather to help them sleep, that is your prerogative. To suggest that newspapers produce articles that reflect the opinions of half a dozen people is odd to say the least.
What is the issue with the Calpol Generation with respect to the case?
-
The old if in doubt attack option instead of a sensible discussion.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/children/10312778/Keep-calm-and-carry-on-taking-the-Calpol.html (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/children/10312778/Keep-calm-and-carry-on-taking-the-Calpol.html)
https://annaraccoon.com/2009/03/02/the-calpol-generation-of-home-alone-kids/ (https://annaraccoon.com/2009/03/02/the-calpol-generation-of-home-alone-kids/)
https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/7952-calpol-how-often-is-too-often (https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/7952-calpol-how-often-is-too-often)
https://www.newstatesman.com/lifestyle/2014/04/baby-manifesto-no-avocado-yes-calpol (https://www.newstatesman.com/lifestyle/2014/04/baby-manifesto-no-avocado-yes-calpol)
your first quote re the telegraph says this..
Keep calm and carry on taking the Calpol
New research appears to have frightening headline statistics: children given the medicine once a month were five times more likely to have asthma'''
That is....ONCE A MONTH...hardly every night to hepl sleep
-
If you don’t think there are a signifant number of kids who get a dose of calpol when they are restless/under the weather to help them sleep, that is your prerogative. To suggest that newspapers produce articles that reflect the opinions of half a dozen people is odd to say the least.
What is the issue with the Calpol Generation with respect to the case?
children are certainly given calpol when they are unwell...not just to help them sleep...but throughout the day...
you keep mentioning the calpol generation...what do you mean by it...and where does it come from
-
children are certainly given calpol when they are unwell...not just to help them sleep...but throughout the day...
you keep mentioning the calpol generation...what do you mean by it...and where does it come from
I’ve given you the cite.
-
As yet no cite for the " Calpol Generation"
-
The only interesting thing here is innocent incrimination....an innocent remark used as evidence of guilt
-
IMO, there is an inference when Calpol is mentioned with regard to this case and that is why it keeps cropping up.
-
I don't think two doctors, if faced with a child who had had a few extra doses of calpol in the day, would have been thrown into much of a panic.
-
I don't think two doctors, if faced with a child who had had a few extra doses of calpol in the day, would have been thrown into much of a panic.
There was some sort of unexplained stain on Madeleine's pyjamas found on Thursday morning, and Kate said it wasn't due to anything she had done. To me that is a bit of a mystery. Later it was claimed a caring couple entered the apartment on Wednesday night. I can only think it was them that had administered something to Madeleine to calm her down.
-
There was some sort of unexplained stain on Madeleine's pyjamas found on Thursday morning, and Kate said it wasn't due to anything she had done. To me that is a bit of a mystery. Later it was claimed a caring couple entered the apartment on Wednesday night. I can only think it was them that had administered something to Madeleine to calm her down.
so they just happenned to have a bottle of calpol in their pockets?
-
so they just happenned to have a bottle of calpol in their pockets?
There are many apartments within a short walking distance, so if they didn't have it with them they could easily go and fetch some.
-
Well where do you think the caring couple were staying overnight?
-
Well obviously no one is going to admit to it. But there was some sort of unexplained stain on Madeleine's pyjamas found on Thursday morning, and Kate said it wasn't due to anything she had done. To me that is a bit of a mystery. Later it was claimed a caring couple entered the apartment on Wednesday night. I can only think it was them that had administered something to Madeleine to calm her down.
The so-called couple is nothing but a tabloid or forum myth so far. There's no such thing in the files.
-
Looking at the side effects of acetaminophen overdose etc. I think the percentage beside the adverse reaction is the percentage of adverse reactions with those symptoms. It is possible to get nervous system signs "Nervous system
Common (1% to 10%): Headache, dizziness
Frequency not reported: Dystonia"
https://www.drugs.com/sfx/paracetamol-side-effects.html
"For Healthcare Professionals
Applies to acetaminophen: compounding powder, intravenous solution, oral capsule, oral granule effervescent, oral liquid, oral powder for reconstitution, oral suspension, oral tablet, oral tablet chewable, oral tablet disintegrating, oral tablet extended release, rectal suppository
General
In general, acetaminophen (the active ingredient contained in Paracetamol) is well-tolerated when administered in therapeutic doses. The most commonly reported adverse reactions have included nausea, vomiting, constipation. Injection site pain and injection site reaction have been reported with the IV product.[Ref]
Hepatic
Common (1% to 10%): Increased aspartate aminotransferase
Rare (less than 0.1%): Increased hepatic transaminases
Frequency not reported: Liver failure[Ref]
Gastrointestinal
Very common (10% or more): Nausea (up to 34%), Vomiting (up to 15%)
Common (1% to 10%): Abdominal pain, diarrhea, constipation, dyspepsia, enlarged abdomen
Frequency not reported: Dry mouth[Ref]
Hypersensitivity
Postmarketing reports: Anaphylaxis, hypersensitivity reactions[Ref]
Hematologic
Common (1% to 10%): Anemia, postoperative hemorrhage
Very rare (less than 0.01%): Thrombocytopenia, leucopenia, neutropenia[Ref]
Dermatologic
Common (1% to 10%): Rash, pruritus
Rare (less than 0.1%): Serious skin reactions such as acute generalized exanthematous pustulosis, Stevens-Johnson syndrome, and toxic epidermal necrolysis
Very rare (less than 0.01%): Pemphigoid reaction, pustular rash, Lyell syndrome
:[Ref]
Respiratory
Common (1% to 10%): Dyspnea, abnormal breath sounds, pulmonary edema, hypoxia, pleural effusion, stridor, wheezing, coughing[Ref]
Cardiovascular
Common (1% to 10%): Peripheral edema, hypertension, hypotension, tachycardia, chest pain[Ref]
Metabolic
Common (1% to 10%): Hypokalemia, hyperglycemia[Ref]
Nervous system
Common (1% to 10%): Headache, dizziness
Frequency not reported: Dystonia
Musculoskeletal
Common (1% to 10%): Muscle spasms, trismus
Psychiatric
Common (1% to 10%): Insomnia, anxiety
Genitourinary
Common (1% to 10%): Oliguria
Local
Common (1% to 10%): Infusion site pain, injection site reactions
Ocular
Common (1% to 10%): Periorbital edema
Other
Common (1% to 10%): Pyrexia, fatigue
Rare (0.01% to 0.1%): Malaise
-
There was some sort of unexplained stain on Madeleine's pyjamas found on Thursday morning, and Kate said it wasn't due to anything she had done. To me that is a bit of a mystery. Later it was claimed a caring couple entered the apartment on Wednesday night. I can only think it was them that had administered something to Madeleine to calm her down.
Even if this couple existed, and even if they gave an unsolicited dose of Calpol to Madeleine on Wednesday night, and even if it caused the stain on Madeleine's pjs (unlikely as Calpol is bright pink usually) then how would hat have had any bearing on her well-being 24 hours later?
-
Even if this couple existed, and even if they gave an unsolicited dose of Calpol to Madeleine on Wednesday night, and even if it caused the stain on Madeleine's pjs (unlikely as Calpol is bright pink usually) then how would hat have had any bearing on her well-being 24 hours later?
We don't know what was being administered. I looked at my packet of Paracetamol and it does advise a certain dosage within a 24 hour period. So medication given on the Wednesday night can add to the effects of further medication given on the Thursday night. Madeleine also went sailing on the Thursday and hurt herself so did the nannies also give her a little paracetamol (Calpol)? It doesn't have to cause death just drowsiness and make her more susceptible to some other accident.
-
We don't know what was being administered. I looked at my packet of Paracetamol and it does advise a certain dosage within a 24 hour period. So medication given on the Wednesday night can add to the effects of further medication given on the Thursday night. Madeleine also went sailing on the Thursday and hurt herself so did the nannies also give her a little paracetamol (Calpol)? It doesn't have to cause death just drowsiness and make her more susceptible to some other accident.
Paracetamol typically does not cause drowsiness.
-
Paracetamol typically does not cause drowsiness.
I listed the known side effects before. Maybe I should have used the word dizziness rather than drowsiness, I must apologise for that.
"Nervous system
Common (1% to 10%): Headache, dizziness
Frequency not reported: Dystonia
-
We don't know what was being administered. I looked at my packet of Paracetamol and it does advise a certain dosage within a 24 hour period. So medication given on the Wednesday night can add to the effects of further medication given on the Thursday night. Madeleine also went sailing on the Thursday and hurt herself so did the nannies also give her a little paracetamol (Calpol)? It doesn't have to cause death just drowsiness and make her more susceptible to some other accident.
Where does it say that she hurt herself?
-
There are many apartments within a short walking distance, so if they didn't have it with them they could easily go and fetch some.
No well meaning stranger is going to administer any medicine to a child they know absolutely nothing about.
-
No well meaning stranger is going to administer any medicine to a child they know absolutely nothing about.
Nothing's impossible until it has been proved to be impossible. However, that doesn't seem likely to me either. And it doesn't explain what they did with the child after, either.
-
Nothing's impossible until it has been proved to be impossible. However, that doesn't seem likely to me either. And it doesn't explain what they did with the child after, either.
Agreed. Calpol does help children sleep regardless of some of the previous comments.
-
Agreed. Calpol does help children sleep regardless of some of the previous comments.
Alleviating pain or discomfort generally does facilitate sleep.
-
Where does it say that she hurt herself?
It was a while back I showed that the policy when they take kids sailing was that headgear is supposed to be warn, and there is no mention of headgear, so it is more a possibility of being hurt and the possibility of being given calpol we are discussing here. But I do recall it was reported Madeleine cried at some stage during the sailing. That plus two of the people involved do not make a statement.
Now all what I'm writing now is from a study well over a year ago, but if the thread remains we talked about Chris Unsworth or however the name was spelt.
"Alice Stanley & Chris Unsworth - Took children sailing May 3rd - Apparently no formal statements from them-"
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6981.msg315340#msg315340
No threads discussing this topic since I've joined so the thread must have been deleted.
-
G-unit delves into the discrepancy quite well in http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2705.msg285011#msg285011
"I was looking at the statements by the Mark Warner childcare staff and found some interesting bits. The sailing trip was moved from Wednesday morning to Thursday morning by Cat Baker (I assume). No-one ever said why, and so I assumed it was the bad weather on Wednesday that was the reason. The Minis club used by Madeleine McCann was supervised by Amy Tierney who had two staff dealing with the two groups of children; Cat Baker and Emma Wilding.
According to Lyndsay Johnson a sailing trip was undertaken by the Minis which included both groups and the associated staff. Whether that includes Amy she doesn't say, but she seems to think all the Minis were eligible, but refers only to 'several children'
The informant tells us that on a date which she cannot be precise about but which was some time last week, Madeleine McCann participated in a boat trip, organised by the company's crêche. Several children participated in this outing to the sea, accompanied by the employees mentioned above and an expert in water activities, whose name she is not aware of.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LYNSAY-JAYNE.htm
Emma Wilding must have taken children from her group also, then. Or did she stay behind and care for the children who didn't go? Either way she could be expected to remember, right? Wrong!
She is not sure whether during the morning Madeleine's group had outdoor activities, mainly at the pool; she does remember that around 1230 Madelew's (sic) father went to fetch her for lunch. (KM went with Fiona actually)
When questioned, she states that on Wednesday May 2, her group and Madeleine's group went to the beach, but she is not sure if Madeleine was in the group or not,
According to Cat Baker she and Alice Stanley (sailing staff) took Madeleine and 4 or 5 others to the beach. Alice sailed with 3 children at a time in a yellow catamaran. Chris Unsworth ferried the children to the catamaran in a red amphibious boat to the open sea and Alice. After they sailed he returned them to the beach and picked up the next three. I assume, therefore that Cat stayed on the beach if there was no-one else to watch the children waiting.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CATRIONA-TREASA-B.htm
How strange that Emma Wilding didn't remember the sailing trip."
-
Paracetamol typically does not cause drowsiness.
It can cause drowsiness. It contains paracetamol and an overdose accidentally or otherwise can cause death.
I know this to be true as I found my friend who had tried to... leave the planet voluntarily. I caught her just in time she was very drowsy indeed. This post does not imply the same fate was for MBM. just talking about the drug and affects
-
It can cause drowsiness. It contains paracetamol and an overdose accidentally or otherwise can cause death.
I know this to be true as I found my friend who had tried to... leave the planet voluntarily. I caught her just in time she was very drowsy indeed. This post does not imply the same fate was for MBM. just talking about the drug and affects
Death by paracetamol overdose usually takes days, as it is the kidney (I believe) that gets irreparably damaged, so if you found a friend "just in time" it must have been many , many hours after the overdose.
-
Death by paracetamol overdose usually takes days, as it is the kidney (I believe) that gets irreparably damaged, so if you found a friend "just in time" it must have been many , many hours after the overdose.
Or in time to get their stomach pumped. I have a feeling it is liver failure rather than kidneys.
-
Paracetamol does not cause drowsiness.
If something causes drowsiness then it would say in the 'side effects' as it would state not to operate machinery or drive if the tablets caused drowsiness.
-
https://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.co.nz/2007/09/madeleines-grandfather-admits-kate-may.html
"Saturday, 8 September 2007
MADELEINE'S GRANDFATHER ADMITS KATE “MAY HAVE USED CALPOL”
Brian Healy, the father of Kate McCann, admitted she “may have used Calpol” to help Madeleine to sleep, but said it was “just outrageous to think of anything else." Gerry and Kate strongly denied, on August 16, using any kind of drugs on their children to stop them waking up at night. Calpol is a common painkiller that is used, in UK, to to calm them down or help children to sleep. Twelve million bottles and packets of Calpol are sold every year, in UK."
So how did Paulo Reis get to know about it?
The story, with this tittle, was published in this page, on the online edition of "The Sun". The page was deleted and I'm not sure if it was in the paper edition.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2005320001-2007410851,00.html
"Correio a Manhã", a Portuguese daily newspaper, also quotes "The Sun", on it's edition of the same day.
TRANQUILIZER FOR MADDIE
Kate's father Brian Healy admitted yesterday that his granddaughter was taking Calpol, a tranquilizer for sleeping that is marketed in the United Kingdom and whose sale is authorized in Portugal by Infarmed. Healy criticized the Portuguese police and defended the couple.
https://www.cmjornal.pt/exclusivos/detalhe/suspeitos-de-matar-e-esconder-maddie
-
https://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.co.nz/2007/09/madeleines-grandfather-admits-kate-may.html
"Saturday, 8 September 2007
MADELEINE'S GRANDFATHER ADMITS KATE “MAY HAVE USED CALPOL”
Brian Healy, the father of Kate McCann, admitted she “may have used Calpol” to help Madeleine to sleep, but said it was “just outrageous to think of anything else." Gerry and Kate strongly denied, on August 16, using any kind of drugs on their children to stop them waking up at night. Calpol is a common painkiller that is used, in UK, to to calm them down or help children to sleep. Twelve million bottles and packets of Calpol are sold every year, in UK."
So how did Paulo Reis get to know about it?
The story, with this tittle, was published in this page, on the online edition of "The Sun". The page was deleted and I'm not sure if it was in the papel edition.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2005320001-2007410851,00.html
"Saturday, 8 September 2007
MADELEINE'S GRANDFATHER ADMITS KATE “MAY HAVE USED CALPOL”
The story of the "The Sun" is reproduced here:
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/friends-and-family-anger-sun-07-09-2007-t389.html
Friends and family anger
By ONLINE REPORTER
Published: 07 Sep 2007
FRIENDS of the McCann's who dined with the couple on the night Maddie disappeared have backed Kate. In a joint statement, the group stressed their firm belief that she was innocent.
(...)
Mr Healy said: "I know Kate and Gerry would not harm Madeleine at all. Kate may have used Calpol (to help her sleep), but it's just outrageous to think of anything else" (...)
"Correio a Manhã", a Portuguese daily newspaper, also quotes "The Sun", on it's edition of the same day
https://www.cmjornal.pt/exclusivos/detalhe/suspeitos-de-matar-e-esconder-maddie
TRANQUILIZANTE PARA MADDIE
Brian Healy, pai de Kate, admitiu ontem que a sua neta tomava Calpol, um tranquilizante para dormir que é comercializado no Reino Unido e cuja venda está autorizada em Portugal pelo Infarmed. Healy criticou a polícia portuguesa e defendeu o casal.
Other bloggers mention "The Sun" story
https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2007/11/dossier-madeleine-in-observador-xxi.html
Calpol: o medicamento antipirético
Novos desenvolvimentos no caso Madeleine. Numa entrevista ao The Sun, o avô materno de Madeleine, Brian Healy, revelou que a filha (Kate) «apenas terá usado Calpol para a ajudar a menina a dormir».
https://frommybigdesk.blogspot.com/2009_08_07_archive.html
While the grandfather stated on television that Kate gave Calpol to the children to get them to sleep (...)
https://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?p=1059977281
(...) when interviewed in 2009 by SkyNews Brian Healy said, "I think they may have used Calpol" and there's nothing wrong with that. Brian then added almost as an afterthought, "..like most mothers do (...)
-
The story, with this tittle, was published in this page, on the online edition of "The Sun". The page was deleted and I'm not sure if it was in the papel edition.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2005320001-2007410851,00.html
"Saturday, 8 September 2007
MADELEINE'S GRANDFATHER ADMITS KATE “MAY HAVE USED CALPOL”
The story of the "The Sun" is reproduced here:
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/friends-and-family-anger-sun-07-09-2007-t389.html
Friends and family anger
By ONLINE REPORTER
Published: 07 Sep 2007
FRIENDS of the McCann's who dined with the couple on the night Maddie disappeared have backed Kate. In a joint statement, the group stressed their firm belief that she was innocent.
(...)
Mr Healy said: "I know Kate and Gerry would not harm Madeleine at all. Kate may have used Calpol (to help her sleep), but it's just outrageous to think of anything else" (...)
"Correio a Manhã", a Portuguese daily newspaper, also quotes "The Sun", on it's edition of the same day
https://www.cmjornal.pt/exclusivos/detalhe/suspeitos-de-matar-e-esconder-maddie
TRANQUILIZANTE PARA MADDIE
Brian Healy, pai de Kate, admitiu ontem que a sua neta tomava Calpol, um tranquilizante para dormir que é comercializado no Reino Unido e cuja venda está autorizada em Portugal pelo Infarmed. Healy criticou a polícia portuguesa e defendeu o casal.
Other bloggers mention "The Sun" story
https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2007/11/dossier-madeleine-in-observador-xxi.html
Calpol: o medicamento antipirético
Novos desenvolvimentos no caso Madeleine. Numa entrevista ao The Sun, o avô materno de Madeleine, Brian Healy, revelou que a filha (Kate) «apenas terá usado Calpol para a ajudar a menina a dormir».
https://frommybigdesk.blogspot.com/2009_08_07_archive.html
While the grandfather stated on television that Kate gave Calpol to the children to get them to sleep (...)
https://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?p=1059977281
(...) when interviewed in 2009 by SkyNews Brian Healy said, "I think they may have used Calpol" and there's nothing wrong with that. Brian then added almost as an afterthought, "..like most mothers do (...)
Brain Healy has been miss quoted, in the most disgusting way.
He was asked, did he know if the McCann's give the children any drugs to help them sleep. He answered NO the only thing he had ever seen them give Madeleine was Calpol. He didn't say they give Calpol to help her sleep.
The only way a pain relief medicine such as Calpol that only contains Paracetamol can help a child sleep is when it gets rid of pain and reduces temperature helping the child to finally go to sleep, it does not act as a sedative.
-
Paracetamol does not cause drowsiness.
If something causes drowsiness then it would say in the 'side effects' as it would state not to operate machinery or drive if the tablets caused drowsiness.
Very true, however it contains caffine which helps to make the pain relief work. if someone is in lot of pain and can't sleep for a while they do eventually have to sleep and this is where patients can get drowsy, lack of sleep. The pain relief may cause a deep sleep , depending on a lot of things.
MBM has not been mentioned as being unwell or need of calpol. It has been associated as a 'drug' in the suggestion that the children were drugged. If they were, then calpol would not have been any use. Kate being a qualified anaesthetist would know this.
She would also know her own children's behavioural patterns, so to suspect they may have been drugged is interesting.
-
Very true, however it contains caffine which helps to make the pain relief work. if someone is in lot of pain and can't sleep for a while they do eventually have to sleep and this is where patients can get drowsy, lack of sleep. The pain relief may cause a deep sleep , depending on a lot of things.
MBM has not been mentioned as being unwell or need of calpol. It has been associated as a 'drug' in the suggestion that the children were drugged. If they were, then calpol would not have been any use. Kate being a qualified anaesthetist would know this.
She would also know her own children's behavioural patterns, so to suspect they may have been drugged is interesting.
That is, sleep... Not sedation... Children on holiday are likely to fall into a deep sleep due to simply overdoing it... I've seen it many many times... How a child can fall asleep... Stay asleep and be very difficult to rouse
-
That is, sleep... Not sedation... Children on holiday are likely to fall into a deep sleep due to simply overdoing it... I've seen it many many times... How a child can fall asleep... Stay asleep and be very difficult to rouse
Why are you replying to my post as if I have made a claim of sorts? I never suggested the children were drugged, it was the mother, and she should known she was there. Bit of a coincidence that this particular night they all slept very soundly after previous nights waking up crying. As was acknowledged at their home. Also the parents did share concern about their light sleeping patterns by discussing opening doors and putting on/off light so as not to disturb them. If opening doors can wake them then...well no wonder KATE thought to suggest they were drugged to explain their 'unusual deep sleep' when all hell was broken lose that night!
-
Kate always made sure the children went to bed, at the proper time... She would have had little experience of children who were worn out.... I have experience of sedation and experience of taking small children on holiday... The twins behaviour was quite normal
-
I would have thought that Kate would have had a lot of experience taking young children on holiday, given she had 3 kids under 4 and they regularly took them away for the weekend according to the Kate herself eg family visits, Donegal, Centreparks etc.
-
I would have thought that Kate would have had a lot of experience taking young children on holiday, given she had 3 kids under 4 and they regularly took them away for the weekend according to the Kate herself eg family visits, Donegal, Centreparks etc.
Welcome Sunny.
-
I would have thought that Kate would have had a lot of experience taking young children on holiday, given she had 3 kids under 4 and they regularly took them away for the weekend according to the Kate herself eg family visits, Donegal, Centreparks etc.
You have basically supplied it yourself... The McCann's had never been on this, type of holiday where the children are so active...... All day... And get very worn out... I've seen it a lot... Toddlers in pushchairs fast asleep in noisy discos... You don't get that at centre, parcs
-
You have basically supplied it yourself... The McCann's had never been on this, type of holiday where the children are so active...... All day... And get very worn out... I've seen it a lot... Toddlers in pushchairs fast asleep in noisy discos... You don't get that at centre, parcs
What, so kids don't get active at Centreparks? Isn't that what the parks are for?
Are you for real?
So nothing for the kids to do here then Davel.
https://www.centerparcs.co.uk/discover-center-parcs/things-to-do.html
-
What, so kids don't get active at Centreparks? Isn't that what the parks are for?
Are you for real?
So nothing for the kids to do here then Davel.
https://www.centerparcs.co.uk/discover-center-parcs/things-to-do.html
No kids clubs at centre parcs... I've been ti both... I've taken young children to centre parcs and to places like ocean club... Have you... There is no comparison to how tired children get...I've, seen young children that are impossible to wake up they are that tired... That is, a fact not opinion
So I'm speaking from my experience with children...
-
No kids clubs at centre parcs... I've been ti both... I've taken young children to centre parcs and to places like ocean club... Have you... There is no comparison to how tired children get...I've, seen young children that are impossible to wake up they are that tired... That is, a fact not opinion
So I'm speaking from my experience with children...
Well your experience must be flawed then Davel. There is an activity creche at CP. From the link I supplied
Creche 24 - 35 months
Activity Den
Little ones love our Crèche & Activity Den, as it’s a Center Parcs adventure all of their very own. Our professionally trained childcare staff in the Ofsted-registered facility welcome them in, gently encouraging children to learn, develop and investigate, all in a happy, safe and stimulating environment. Meanwhile, you can explore the village, enjoy the activities and adventures on offer, and rest assured your little ones are in the best-possible care.
I can see sailing, archery, football, disco, cycling, even this;
Tiny Sports Day
All Villages
Age restriction
Parent accompanied
Introduce your little one to some favourite sports, including tennis, cricket and tri-golf. Ages 3 to 5 years
Davel did you read my link? There IS a creche and there ARE activities for unnacompanied young children. When did you go to Centreparks?
-
Well your experience must be flawed then Davel. There is an activity creche at CP. From the link I supplied
Creche 24 - 35 months
Activity Den
Little ones love our Crèche & Activity Den, as it’s a Center Parcs adventure all of their very own. Our professionally trained childcare staff in the Ofsted-registered facility welcome them in, gently encouraging children to learn, develop and investigate, all in a happy, safe and stimulating environment. Meanwhile, you can explore the village, enjoy the activities and adventures on offer, and rest assured your little ones are in the best-possible care.
I can see sailing, archery, football, disco, cycling, even this;
Tiny Sports Day
All Villages
Age restriction
Parent accompanied
Introduce your little one to some favourite sports, including tennis, cricket and tri-golf. Ages 3 to 5 years
Davel did you read my link? There IS a creche and there ARE activities for unnacompanied young children. When did you go to Centreparks?
I've taken children to both.. Have you
What I'm saying is, there is, a realistic explanation for the tired twins that does not include sedatives
If you don't want to accept reality.. Fine
-
You have basically supplied it yourself... The McCann's had never been on this, type of holiday where the children are so active...... All day... And get very worn out... I've seen it a lot... Toddlers in pushchairs fast asleep in noisy discos... You don't get that at centre, parcs
Presumably we are now expected to bow to your alleged experience.
Oh drat, personal experience of children on holiday in Luz. Should I ignore mine?
In favour of your non-experience of the locale?
Hmm. *%87
-
I've taken children to both.. Have you
What I'm saying is, there is, a realistic explanation for the tired twins that does not include sedatives
If you don't want to accept reality.. Fine
Davel but you said
No kids clubs at centre parcs... I've been ti both.
All I was saying that there is kids clubs so it was a reasonable question to ask you when you went. No I haven't been to either Ocean Club nor Centre Parks. I have been on holiday to hotels with kids clubs but never availed myself of their services.
I didn't mention sedatives by the way. All I was saying was that there is kids/creche at CP and you said there were not.
-
Presumably we are now expected to bow to your alleged experience.
Oh drat, personal experience of children on holiday in Luz. Should I ignore mine?
In favour of your non-experience of the locale?
Hmm. *%87
I've been to lots of holiday clubs... I am giving a realistic explanation of the twins behaviour... opinion... Children can get extremely overtired in these environments..
If you want to ignore reality it's up to you
-
Davel but you said
No kids clubs at centre parcs... I've been ti both.
All I was saying that there is kids clubs so it was a reasonable question to ask you when you went. No I haven't been to either Ocean Club nor Centre Parks. I have been on holiday to hotels with kids clubs but never availed myself of their services.
I didn't mention sedatives by the way. All I was saying was that there is kids/creche at CP and you said there were not.
THe thread is about calpol which amaral incorrectly claimed was a sedative..it isnt....the sleepiness of the twins is easily expalined as i have done...there were no creches at CP when i went and it is of no relevance anyway
-
I've been to lots of holiday clubs... I am giving a realistic explanation of the twins behaviour... Fact... Not opinion... Children can get extremely overtired in these environments..
If you want to ignore reality it's up to you
IYO.
Pity about Jes wandering the streets trying to get his child to sleep.
-
I've been to lots of holiday clubs... I am giving a realistic explanation of the twins behaviour... Fact... Not opinion... Children can get extremely overtired in these environments..
If you want to ignore reality it's up to you
Davel you posted you had more experience of taking children on holiday than Kate. I then mentioned her taking them for weekends away to family, Donegal and CP.
You then said CP doesn't have a creche/kids club. All I have done is show that you are incorrect in all your assertions.
I have never mentioned calpol or kids being tired. You have. Why are you being so obtuse?
ETA I don't believe that calpol day has any sedative properties by the way. You took us off topic.
-
Davel you posted you had more experience of taking children on holiday than Kate. I then mentioned her taking them for weekends away to family, Donegal and CP.
You then said CP doesn't have a creche/kids club. All I have done is show that you are incorrect in all your assertions.
I have never mentioned calpol or kids being tired. You have. Why are you being so obtuse?
ETA I don't believe that calpol day has any sedative properties by the way. You took us off topic.
Why do you think Calpol is being discussed on this thread
-
Why do you think Calpol is being discussed on this thread
Because claims have been made about it's sedative properties but of course that has nothing to do with your having more experience than Kate of children on holiday nor wether CP has a creche/kids club or not. You brought those up and IMO you were incorrect on both points.
-
Because claims have been made about it's sedative properties but of course that has nothing to do with your having more experience than Kate of children on holiday nor wether CP has a creche/kids club or not. You brought those up and IMO you were incorrect on both points.
so the fact In was offerring an alternative expalnation to sedation for the tiredness of the twins is totally on topic...thank you
-
so the fact In was offerring an alternative expalnation to sedation for the tiredness of the twins is totally on topic...thank you
But you weren't tho were you Davel when you said there were no kids clubs at CP. How would they be tired out if there was nothing to do?
-
But you weren't tho were you Davel when you said there were no kids clubs at CP. How would they be tired out if there was nothing to do?
you seem to be argumentative for the sake of it...do you agree that a child can be so tired after a day of extreme activity they could be impossible to wake
-
you seem to be argumentative for the sake of it...do you agree that a child can be so tired after a day of extreme activity they could be impossible to wake
I am not sure about "impossible to wake" but yes they could be tired out. I am simply pointing out that IMO you were incorrect in your earlier assumptions.
I could say you were being argumentative. I have apologies over on the video thread. Why can't you?
-
How about we agree to disagree Davel. You won't admit you were wrong so let's let bygones be bygones eh?
-
IYO.
Pity about Jes wandering the streets trying to get his child to sleep.
I have said.. Children can get very overtired in these situations... That is a fact
-
How about we agree to disagree Davel. You won't admit you were wrong so let's let bygones be bygones eh?
In my experience... children can get totally with out ...particularly on holiday... Fall into a deep sleep and be difficult to Rouse... I think that is extremely relevant to the case
-
How about we agree to disagree Davel. You won't admit you were wrong so let's let bygones be bygones eh?
I definitely have far more experience than Kate in taking children on this type of holiday.. CP offerred no where near the amount of activity that clubs like the, OC do... They advertise a lot but each had to be individually paid for meaning parents have to be selective
-
I definitely have far more experience than Kate in taking children on this type of holiday.. CP offerred no where near the amount of activity that clubs like the, OC do... They advertise a lot but each had to be individually paid for meaning parents have to be selective
Much easier to pay for someone else to look after them?
Presumably cites on your experience and Kate's experience will not be forthcoming.
^*&&
-
Much easier to pay for someone else to look after them?
Presumably cites on your experience and Kate's experience will not be forthcoming.
^*&&
cites....purely age and number of children...How many club style holidays had kate and her family been on...one it would seem...im old enough to remember ...Pontinental...and the ones that followed...
plus....children can get so tired they are impossible to rouse...and thse type of holidays tire them out
-
I definitely have far more experience than Kate in taking children on this type of holiday.. CP offerred no where near the amount of activity that clubs like the, OC do... They advertise a lot but each had to be individually paid for meaning parents have to be selective
So what were these activities that made the twins so tired ? Drawing perhaps ?
-
What were these very strenuous activities that caused the twins to both be identically exhausted at the same time ?
-
It can cause drowsiness. It contains paracetamol and an overdose accidentally or otherwise can cause death.
I know this to be true as I found my friend who had tried to... leave the planet voluntarily. I caught her just in time she was very drowsy indeed. This post does not imply the same fate was for MBM. just talking about the drug and affects
https://www.quora.com/Does-acetaminophen-cause-drowsiness
-
My children always sleep soundly on holiday abroad, it's the change of air, new things to explore. The twins were running around playing with other children all day, plus going to the pool with the McCann's they were only two, that is enough to exhaust them. I remember taking my eldest to a concert in the open air and she fell asleep the noise of the bands and the crowds didn't wake her she was sound asleep, a mixture of open air and running around.
-
I've been to lots of holiday clubs... I am giving a realistic explanation of the twins behaviour... opinion... Children can get extremely overtired in these environments..
If you want to ignore reality it's up to you
To sleep through the entire episode is unusual.
-
To sleep through the entire episode is unusual.
Not in my experience of young children... And it, seems others too... The question is... Is it possible that the twins were simply in a deep sleep due to being totally worn out.. And the, answer has to be yes.. Imo
-
Posters are reminded to refrain from making personal comments. TY
-
Well your experience must be flawed then Davel. There is an activity creche at CP. From the link I supplied
Creche 24 - 35 months
Activity Den
Little ones love our Crèche & Activity Den, as it’s a Center Parcs adventure all of their very own. Our professionally trained childcare staff in the Ofsted-registered facility welcome them in, gently encouraging children to learn, develop and investigate, all in a happy, safe and stimulating environment. Meanwhile, you can explore the village, enjoy the activities and adventures on offer, and rest assured your little ones are in the best-possible care.
I can see sailing, archery, football, disco, cycling, even this;
Tiny Sports Day
All Villages
Age restriction
Parent accompanied
Introduce your little one to some favourite sports, including tennis, cricket and tri-golf. Ages 3 to 5 years
Davel did you read my link? There IS a creche and there ARE activities for unnacompanied young children. When did you go to Centreparks?
there are any activities at CP but they are so expensive it isnt possible to do many...teh OCs activities were free ...so children would be on teh go all day
-
Presumably we are now expected to bow to your alleged experience.
Oh drat, personal experience of children on holiday in Luz. Should I ignore mine?
In favour of your non-experience of the locale?
Hmm. *%87
what is your personal experience of the Ocean club in LUz...I dont believe you have stayed there
-
what is your personal experience of the Ocean club in LUz...I dont believe you have stayed there
After you old chap, age before beauty.
How many times have you visited the Algarve?
For the record, I have eaten in the Ocean Club. It was much to my taste.
-
After you old chap, age before beauty.
How many times have you visited the Algarve?
For the record, I have eaten in the Ocean Club. It was much to my taste.
you are missing the point...eating in the OC has no relevance.....these club types of holidays are very tiring for children...ive taken children on many.....throughout europe...they are all similar
-
Posters are reminded to refrain from making personal comments. TY
Please.
-
''
you are missing the point...eating in the OC has no relevance.....these club types of holidays are very tiring for children...ive taken children on many.....throughout europe...they are all similar
So narrow it down a bit. How many on the Algarve?
-
''So narrow it down a bit. How many on the Algarve?
None of your business... Many throughout Europe...... What makes the algarve different
How many times have you taken small children to an ocean type club
-
None of your business... Many throughout Europe...... What makes the algarve different
Unless you have visited it to compare it to other places in Europe, how would you know?
Ahhh, but then, you haven't and you don't.
You might or might not have expertise of Center Parcs. Who knows. Who cares.
-
Unless you have visited it to compare it to other places in Europe, how would you know?
Ahhh, but then, you haven't and you don't.
You might or might not have expertise of Center Parcs. Who knows. Who cares.
Al the clubs are basically the same...and they tire out children....you have probably never been to one so wouldnt know
-
Al the clubs are basically the same...and they tire out children....you have probably never been to one so wouldnt know
The parks in Disney tire out children so the point is?
-
The parks in Disney tire out children so the point is?
If you read the posts you will understand the point I was making... Once again sil wants to disrupt the thread with personal insults
-
If you read the posts you will understand the point I was making... Once again sil wants to disrupt the thread with personal insults
Feel free to report me.
Anyone who thinks Luz was like Center Parcs has never been to the Algarve.
-
Feel free to report me.
Anyone who thinks Luz was like Center Parcs has never been to the Algarve.
Davel didn’t say that did he?
-
I’ve been to a MW resort with children and they ran about all day doing various activities. I never had trouble waking them if I needed to though.
-
I’ve been to a MW resort with children and they ran about all day doing various activities. I never had trouble waking them if I needed to though.
Of course there will be variation.
-
Of course there will be variation.
I think it's particularly true of young children... Under 5
-
Enough....
-
I’ve been to a MW resort with children and they ran about all day doing various activities. I never had trouble waking them if I needed to though.
So you left your children alone with strangers? oh how could you Faith?!!!... 8(0(*
Just a point about that. The McCanns in one of their many excuses about the 'listening service' they provided as evening childcare, was they didn't like to leave the children alone with strangers.. they had no bother doing that during the day.
This was in response to a question why didn't they hire a nanny who were on offer at MW- to babysit...
-
So you left your children alone with strangers? oh how could you Faith?!!!... 8(0(*
Just a point about that. The McCanns in one of their many excuses about the 'listening service' they provided as evening childcare, was they didn't like to leave the children alone with strangers.. they had no bother doing that during the day.
This was in response to a question why didn't they hire a nanny who were on offer at MW- to babysit...
They could even possibly have had Cat Baker to babysit, she who knew Madeleine well..
Modified thanks to Sadie.
-
So you left your children alone with strangers? oh how could you Faith?!!!... 8(0(*
Just a point about that. The McCanns in one of their many excuses about the 'listening service' they provided as evening childcare, was they didn't like to leave the children alone with strangers.. they had no bother doing that during the day.
This was in response to a question why didn't they hire a nanny who were on offer at MW- to babysit...
Even you Mistaken, must realise that there is a big difference between leaving your child in a daylight club, with open access. Where staff and parents 'come and go' randomly, so without even trying, monitoring what goes on there
~ versus ~
Having a virtual stranger looking after them, in the solitude of your flat with curtains drawn, door locked and no random visitors unconsciously monitoring things.
I wouldn't have allowed the second, but yes, I would have allowed the former.
-
Even you Mistaken, must realise that there is a big difference between leaving your child in a daylight club where parents 'come and go' randomly, so without even trying, monitoring what goes on there
~ versus ~
Having a virtual stranger looking after them, in the solitude of your flat with curtains drawn, door locked and no random visitors unconsciously monitoring things.
Either proposition would be better than leaving your children on their own with the doors unlocked.
-
They could even possibly have had Cat Baker to babysite, she who knew the children well..
Correction.
Only Madeleine was in her group. The twins were in another club geographically seperated.
After a few days with Madeleine in her group, she would have known her fairly well
However there was NO reason why Cat Baker would know the twins at all. They spent their 'club' time, crow flies, about 220 metres away ... and considerably further by foot
Can I have a cite, please
-
Either proposition would be better than leaving your children on their own with the doors unlocked.
In the understanding of The Mccanns, only ONE door was unlocked and that was the patio door, which the Tapas Group could see from about 50 metres away. Even Amaral said that no-one would dare go in via that entrance becos it was so overlooked by the parents and friends.
-
Correction.
Only Madeleine was in her group. The twins were in another club geographically seperated.
After a few days with Madeleine in her group, she would have known her fairly well
However there was NO reason why Cat Baker would know the twins at all. They spent their 'club' time, crow flies, about 220 metres away ... and considerably further by foot
Can I have a cite, please
I think you have made a valid point.
-
I think you have made a valid point.
And she did Robittybob1 and I had already amended my post accordingly and thanked Sadie for putting me right.
-
In the understanding of The Mccanns, only ONE door was unlocked and that was the patio door, which the Tapas Group could see from about 50 metres away. Even Amaral said that no-one would dare go in via that entrance becos it was so overlooked by the parents and friends.
Why do you find it necessary to pluralise the patio door into "doors", Faith ?
Putting the boot in?
Let's have transparent honesty please ... and would you correct your post T.Y. We dont want more myths flying around the place, do we ?
I agree Sadie we don't want myths flying around so with this in mind pleases could you provide a cite where the group would be able to see the door from the restaurant. I have had a brief look and see how they could see the actual door only part of the outside of 5a. Otherwise why not amend your post as I did.
By the way thanks again for putting me right regarding Cat.
-
In the understanding of The Mccanns, only ONE door was unlocked and that was the patio door, which the Tapas Group could see from about 50 metres away. Even Amaral said that no-one would dare go in via that entrance becos it was so overlooked by the parents and friends.
How right he is imo no one used that entrance nor another to allegedly abduct the girl.
-
In the understanding of The Mccanns, only ONE door was unlocked and that was the patio door, which the Tapas Group could see from about 50 metres away. Even Amaral said that no-one would dare go in via that entrance becos it was so overlooked by the parents and friends.
Interesting that you use one of GA’s reasons to doubt abduction as an indicator of how safe it was?
-
And she did Robittybob1 and I had already amended my post accordingly and thanked Sadie for putting me right.
Well that is a bonus.
-
How right he is imo no one used that entrance nor another to allegedly abduct the girl.
She had to get out somehow. How?
-
She had to get out somehow. How?
That has never been explained by OG in its pursuit of what ever.
-
The Calpol claim revisited ... Is the theme of this thread ... please stick to that and take other discussion to an appropriate thread. Thank you
-
In the understanding of The Mccanns, only ONE door was unlocked and that was the patio door, which the Tapas Group could see from about 50 metres away. Even Amaral said that no-one would dare go in via that entrance becos it was so overlooked by the parents and friends.
Patio doors are almost exclusively talked about in the plural and I was using the word doors in that context.
-
In the understanding of The Mccanns, only ONE door was unlocked and that was the patio door, which the Tapas Group could see from about 50 metres away. Even Amaral said that no-one would dare go in via that entrance becos it was so overlooked by the parents and friends.
I humbly beg to differ Sadie. The patio could be seen vaguely in the dark from the tapas but the door was impossible to see even in daylight.
(http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/sitebuilderpictures/notwviewfrombar.jpg)
-
I humbly beg to differ Sadie. The patio could be seen vaguely in the dark but the door was impossible to see.
I tend to agree.... Not impossible to see but obscured enough so someone could center without being seen
-
I tend to agree.... Not impossible to see but obscured enough so someone could center without being seen
I think what commentators mean when they say the patio door can be seen from the tapas area is that the general outline of the patio area is visible. Anyone creeping up the steps and into the patio would not have been seen.
Did Kate see Gerry or Matt from her tapas vantage point when they visited the apartment, obviously not imo.
-
I think what commentators mean when they say the patio door can be seen from the tapas area is that the general outline of the patio area is visible. Anyone creeping up the steps and into the patio would not have been seen.
Did Kate see Gerry or Matt from her tapas vantage point when they visited the apartment, obviously not imo.
Vice versa,if it could be seen from the tapas,Kate on finding Madleine gone could have soon attracted attention rather than go back to the tapas,imo innit.
-
Vice versa,if it could be seen from the tapas,Kate on finding Madleine gone could have soon attracted attention rather than go back to the tapas,imo innit.
The issue of why Kate chose to leave the twins rather than getting help from the patio is indeed problematic.
-
The issue of why Kate chose to leave the twins rather than getting help from the patio is indeed problematic.
In your opinion perhaps ... but in my opinion the fact she ran to her husband in crisis isn't in the least bit surprising.
-
The issue of why Kate chose to leave the twins rather than getting help from the patio is indeed problematic.
It's not problematic if there was music playing in the Tapas Bar. Would she expected to stand on the patio & holler, on the remote chance someone would hear her almost immediately?
-
It's not problematic if there was music playing in the Tapas Bar. Would she expected to stand on the patio & holler, on the remote chance someone would hear her almost immediately?
]
The music? if there was any wasn't loud enough to not hear any orders was it,is there any mention of music by anyone?
-
It's not problematic if there was music playing in the Tapas Bar. Would she expected to stand on the patio & holler, on the remote chance someone would hear her almost immediately?
I agree, Misty.
In my opinion, Kate instinctively took the most expedient course of action and the one most likely to achieve immediate results.
-
It's not problematic if there was music playing in the Tapas Bar. Would she expected to stand on the patio & holler, on the remote chance someone would hear her almost immediately?
Cite for music playing in the Tapas Bar, please.
One supporter has claimed the patio door was unlocked so Madeleine could shout to her parents.
So why didn't Kate shout from the patio?
-
Cite for music playing in the Tapas Bar, please.
One supporter has claimed the patio door was unlocked so Madeleine could shout to her parents.
So why didn't Kate shout from the patio?
Who knows and what difference does it make? Will the answer help you find Madeleine?
-
Cite for music playing in the Tapas Bar, please.
One supporter has claimed the patio door was unlocked so Madeleine could shout to her parents.
So why didn't Kate shout from the patio?
I think it's quite simple to understand why Kate didn't shout from the balcony.... Because although they would have heard her shouting they may not have understood exactly what she was saying... In her book she says, as soon ad they we're in sight... She shouted to them Maddies gone.... No mystery afaiac
-
Who knows and what difference does it make? Will the answer help you find Madeleine?
Yes.
-
Yes.
Could you explain how the answer will help YOU find Madeleine as you have claimed ...do you expect to find Madeleine
-
Could you explain how the answer will help YOU find Madeleine as you have claimed ...do you expect to find Madeleine
No I don't, nor did I claim that I would.
Kindly stop altering MY posts. After all, they are MINE.
-
No I don't, nor did I claim that I would.
Kindly stop altering MY posts. After all, they are MINE.
Which post do you THINK I have altered.......
Who knows and what difference does it make? Will the answer help you find Madeleine?
your reply was YES......so how will it help YOU find Madeleine
-
Yes.
Don’t be silly, of course it won’t.
-
Cite for music playing in the Tapas Bar, please.
One supporter has claimed the patio door was unlocked so Madeleine could shout to her parents.
So why didn't Kate shout from the patio?
Written by someone who was holidaying there the week before Madeleine disappeared.....
http://blogs.thisismoney.co.uk/2007/05/my_experience_o.html
*snipped*
The McCanns opted instead to eat 40-50m from their apartment, not much more than a pool’s width away. They hoped it would be just close enough to hear a crying baby but with bar music playing and restaurant hubbub, it wasn’t close enough to hear what happened to Madeleine that night.
-
I humbly beg to differ Sadie. The patio could be seen vaguely in the dark from the tapas but the door was impossible to see even in daylight.
(http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/sitebuilderpictures/notwviewfrombar.jpg)
1) Why did you chose a shot from the Bar, when thay ate in the Restaurant ? That is not the view from the Restaurant
2) Why did you show an image taken when the bushes needed pruning? I have already explained just how rapidly the foliage grows in the western Algarve with the rain coming in from the west and the sunshine /heat. The bushes had just been cut back the week that Kate and Gerry were there
When the bushes / hedges were long, yes, they would hve obscured the view. But with them trimmed back the view of the patio doors was excellent.
And now a photo shown from outside the patio doors in the reverse direction towards the Tapas restaurant. Unfortunately the bushes are not pruned right back as at the time that Madeleine vanished, so the view at that time would have been much better.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/sitebuilderpictures/notwviewfrompatio.jpg
(http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/sitebuilderpictures/notwviewfrompatio.jpg)
See the blue bit in the upper middle of the photo? Well that is the swimming pool. Immediately behind there are two adjoining white buildings with huge windows. The Mccanns sat in the RH white building; we sat in the middle of the LH white building. Despite what it looks like, the two buildings were actually one ... it just looks like two.
We were lucky, it was about 3 years on from Madeleine vanishing, and the bushes must have been bigger .... BUT they had been recently pruned and our view of the patio windows was excellent
Photographs can be deceptive. As can be acurately checked on Google Earth, the distance from the Tapas restaurant to 5A patio is 50 metres; It looks much further.
-
1) Why did you chose a shot from the Bar, when thay ate in the Restaurant ? That is not the view from the Restaurant
2) Why did you show an image taken when the bushes needed pruning? I have already explained just how rapidly the foliage grows in the western Algarve with the rain coming in from the west and the sunshine /heat. The bushes had just been cut back the week that Kate and Gerry were there
When the bushes / hedges were long, yes, they would hve obscured the view. But with them trimmed back the view of the patio doors was excellent.
And now a photo shown from outside the patio doors in the reverse direction towards the Tapas restaurant. Unfortunately the bushes are not pruned right back as at the time that Madeleine vanished, so the view at that time would have been much better.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/sitebuilderpictures/notwviewfrompatio.jpg
(http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/sitebuilderpictures/notwviewfrompatio.jpg)
See the blue bit in the upper middle of the photo? Well that is the swimming pool. Immediately behind there are two adjoining white buildings with huge windows. The Mccanns sat in the RH white building; we sat in the middle of the LH white building. Despite what it looks like, the two buildings were actually one ... it just looks like two.
We were lucky, it was about 3 years on from Madeleine vanishing, and the bushes must have been bigger .... BUT they had been recently pruned and our view of the patio windows was excellent
Photographs can be deceptive. As can be acurately checked on Google Earth, the distance from the Tapas restaurant to 5A patio is 50 metres; It looks much further.
Cite for the bushes being pruned back just before the McCann’s arrival please ?
-
I humbly beg to differ Sadie. The patio could be seen vaguely in the dark from the tapas but the door was impossible to see even in daylight.
(http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/sitebuilderpictures/notwviewfrombar.jpg)
On a sunny day:
The lighting in the photograph that you show is the opposite of the lighting in the evening after dark. In the sunlight, the patio area is in shadow in contrast to the bright sunlit exterior.
After dark:
The patio area is illuminated by the street lamp opposite in contrast to the dark exterior.
The patio area stands out in the dark.
ETA: The photo appears to have been taken from below normal sitting eye level. I wonder why ?
-
Cite for the bushes being pruned back just before the McCann’s arrival please ?
It has been done before Faith.
It would have been a good idea to have read what you opponents said in earlier posts.
PS if you truly cannot remember it, then I suggest that you look at Kate and Gerrys statements, cos I think that they mentioned it ... maybe others did too
-
On a sunny day:
The lighting in the photograph that you show is the opposite of the lighting in the evening after dark. In the sunlight, the patio area is in shadow in contrast to the bright sunlit exterior.
After dark:
The patio area is illuminated by the street lamp opposite in contrast to the dark exterior.
The patio area stands out in the dark.
ETA: The photo appears to have been taken from below normal sitting eye level. I wonder why ?
You’ve made this claim about the bushes being pruned several times before yet fail to provide a cite. Why ? Why do you want to convince people that you could see more of the patio than you actually could ? There must be a reason.
-
You’ve made this claim about the bushes being pruned several times before yet fail to provide a cite. Why ? Why do you want to convince people that you could see more of the patio than you actually could ? There must be a reason.
Yes, Cos it is the truth that I could see most of the patio doors. Why should I allow someone who hasn't been there and seen, try and turn me into a liar? And only based on photographs from the wrong angle and photographs when the bushes were long.
It has been gone over before Faith .... and you have been around almost for ever, so you have seen it mentioned ... even if you have closed your mind to it.
I am not wasting any more of my limited time on searching for proofs that you should (had you been bothered) have seen before.
Soz
-
Yes, Cos it is the truth that I could see most of the patio doors. Why should I allow someone who hasn't been there and seen, try and turn me into a liar? And only based on photographs from the wrong angle and photographs when the bushes were long.
It has been gone over before Faith .... and you have been around almost for ever, so you have seen it mentioned ... even if you have closed your mind to it.
I am not wasting any more of my limited time on searching for proofs that you should (had you been bothered) have seen before.
Soz
So you don’t have a cite?
-
Written by someone who was holidaying there the week before Madeleine disappeared.....
http://blogs.thisismoney.co.uk/2007/05/my_experience_o.html
*snipped*
The McCanns opted instead to eat 40-50m from their apartment, not much more than a pool’s width away. They hoped it would be just close enough to hear a crying baby but with bar music playing and restaurant hubbub, it wasn’t close enough to hear what happened to Madeleine that night.
Blooming heck its mystic Meg knowing what happened a week before the event.
This is a cite of some substance?
-
Blooming heck its mystic Meg knowing what happened a week before the event.
This is a cite of some substance?
Indeed it is. It is independent verification that music from the bar mixed with the hubbub of chatter from the restaurant as was experienced by the author might well have been replicated on the 3rd.
People were on holiday and relaxed ... but anyway, what about this Calpol thingy we should be discussing here? Do you think that now people are well aware that Calpol has no sedative properties proving Amaral's error (couch ... bang! ... and non existent blood splatter), yet another error of Amaral's making ... that some interest in the topic has been lost?
Strange when one remembers it was a pivotal part of his theory.
-
Indeed it is. It is independent verification that music from the bar mixed with the hubbub of chatter from the restaurant as was experienced by the author might well have been replicated on the 3rd.
People were on holiday and relaxed ... but anyway, what about this Calpol thingy we should be discussing here? Do you think that now people are well aware that Calpol has no sedative properties proving Amaral's error (couch ... bang! ... and non existent blood splatter), yet another error of Amaral's making ... that some interest in the topic has been lost?
Strange when one remembers it was a pivotal part of his theory.
Unsurprisingly you drag Amaral into it,is it actually a part of his theory or is it a myth? I've never read his book but from what I gather the present investigations have yet to find any thing different from his main theory of I believe of accidental death.
-
Patio doors are almost exclusively talked about in the plural and I was using the word doors in that context.
The rear patio door was not locked, but it was closed IMO, giving the impression to anyone walking past that it was (most likely) locked, as the other Tapas appartment closed patio doors were.
It would require someone to be bold /foolhardy enough to enter the garden, walk up the outside stairs and cross the illuminated patio to test them. That would be rather dangerous, when they would be in view of not only the Tapas group, but also people walking the street below and certain villas / flats, with direct views. Also there could have been an adult inside.
Too dangeerous. It was not likely to have happened IMO
-
So you don’t have a cite?
There is mention of the gardeners being in the garden and pruning the bushes in at least one of the statements, I think Kate or Gerrys. It has all been gone over before slarti, as you MUST well know.
You are just time wasting, MY TIME, when it has been proven before.
-
There is mention of the gardeners being in the garden and pruning the bushes in at least one of the statements, I think Kate or Gerrys. It has all been gone over before slarti, as you MUST well know.
You are just time wasting, MY TIME, when it has been proven before.
You have made the claim, it is up to you to provide the cite. I know you have claimed it in the past but as far as I remember you have never provided a cite.
-
So you don’t have a cite?
When are YOU and FAITH going to supply cites for all the extremely dicy statements you make. Despite repeated requests, they haven't appeared on numerous occasions, as has been witnessed several imes on here in the past few months.
I have told you where the cite can be found, it has been mentioned several times before.
-
So you don’t have a cite?
It would appear not. Isn’t that against forum etiquette ?
-
When are YOU and FAITH going to supply cites for all the extremely dicy statements you make. Despite repeated requests, they haven't appeared on numerous occasions, as has been witnessed several imes on here in the past few months.
I have told you where the cite can be found, it has been mentioned several times before.
You made the claim it is up to you to provide a cite or withdraw your claim.
-
Has anyone mentioned Calpol Night at all yet? I imagine that the McCanns being doctors would have had access to that as it was due out very soon, if not already out. I am not saying they gave it to Madeleine but that would have had sleep giving properties as that was what it was for.
-
Has anyone mentioned Calpol Night at all yet? I imagine that the McCanns being doctors would have had access to that as it was due out very soon, if not already out. I am not saying they gave it to Madeleine but that would have had sleep giving properties as that was what it was for.
It’s probably only been discussed a couple of dozen times in recent years. Let’s do it again shall we?
-
It’s probably only been discussed a couple of dozen times in recent years. Let’s do it again shall we?
Yes, just for a laugh.
-
Yes, just for a laugh.
Perhaps I should have put Calpol Night revisited then it may not have been a laugh. We have 12 pages of calpol revisited so why not calpol night?
Not all of us have been discussing the case for years and I couldn't find anything on the night version on here so I thought it may be worth discussing. Clearly not though.
-
Perhaps I should have put Calpol Night revisited then it may not have been a laugh. We have 12 pages of calpol revisited so why not calpol night?
Not all of us have been discussing the case for years and I couldn't find anything on the night version on here so I thought it may be worth discussing. Clearly not though.
Calpol Night was not launched into the market until Sept 2007, 4 months after Madeleine went missing. It received its licence in Jan 2007.
https://www.campaignlive.co.uk/article/branding-calpol-expands-kids-remedies/737476
-
Perhaps I should have put Calpol Night revisited then it may not have been a laugh. We have 12 pages of calpol revisited so why not calpol night?
Not all of us have been discussing the case for years and I couldn't find anything on the night version on here so I thought it may be worth discussing. Clearly not though.
You imagined that the McCanns had access to a drug that wasn’t on the market at the time they went on holiday, so why not do some investigating of your own and see if you can find some actual evidence for your imaginings, and then present them to us? Then we can discuss them in earnest.
-
it was only a suggestion. Is it possible that doctors had access to a drug not yet on the market. It is possible but that is not proof as such.
-
Perhaps I should have put Calpol Night revisited then it may not have been a laugh. We have 12 pages of calpol revisited so why not calpol night?
Not all of us have been discussing the case for years and I couldn't find anything on the night version on here so I thought it may be worth discussing. Clearly not though.
Sunny, as a forum member, you are well within the criteria of discussing calpol nights AS those who mock you have no debate worth mentioning. You are on topic.
I find it interesting when Kate suggested the children may have been drugged- as a trained anaesthetist- she didn't offer what kind of drug may have been use. We need to remember that when offering sedation to children for operations etc, weight, height and age and likely length of operation are ALL VERY IMPORTANT factors! To ensure no under or over dose is administered.
-
Indeed it is. It is independent verification that music from the bar mixed with the hubbub of chatter from the restaurant as was experienced by the author might well have been replicated on the 3rd.
People were on holiday and relaxed ... but anyway, what about this Calpol thingy we should be discussing here? Do you think that now people are well aware that Calpol has no sedative properties proving Amaral's error (couch ... bang! ... and non existent blood splatter), yet another error of Amaral's making ... that some interest in the topic has been lost?
Strange when one remembers it was a pivotal part of his theory.
Are you suggesting the music and chatter was so loud, they couldn't hear the children crying as like sitting in the garden like?
Interesting...
-
Sunny, as a forum member, you are well within the criteria of discussing calpol nights AS those who mock you have no debate worth mentioning. You are on topic.
I find it interesting when Kate suggested the children may have been drugged- as a trained anaesthetist- she didn't offer what kind of drug may have been use. We need to remember that when offering sedation to children for operations etc, weight, height and age and likely length of operation are ALL VERY IMPORTANT factors! To ensure no under or over dose is administered.
Why do we need to remember that, exactly?
-
Why do we need to remember that, exactly?
You and fellow supporters do not need to. It is way above your understanding- not your fault but you could always 'google' if you really wanted to know.
To other readers interested...
an underdose would envoke a patient waking up during an operation, and an overdose? well worst case scenario =death!
Skeptics on the other hand, well we just keep coming up with posts which the supporters can't handle in a debate situation.
-
You and fellow supporters do not need to. It is way above your understanding- not your fault but you could always 'google' if you really wanted to know.
To other readers interested...
an underdose would envoke a patient waking up during an operation, and an overdose? well worst case scenario =death!
Skeptics on the other hand, well we just keep coming up with posts which the supporters can't handle in a debate situation.
Don't get too personal.
-
Perhaps I should have put Calpol Night revisited then it may not have been a laugh. We have 12 pages of calpol revisited so why not calpol night?
Not all of us have been discussing the case for years and I couldn't find anything on the night version on here so I thought it may be worth discussing. Clearly not though.
Because it triggers apoplexy and verbal diarrhoea where half a dozen or fewer bullet points would do the job.
8(0(*
-
You and fellow supporters do not need to. It is way above your understanding- not your fault but you could always 'google' if you really wanted to know.
To other readers interested...
an underdose would envoke a patient waking up during an operation, and an overdose? well worst case scenario =death!
Skeptics on the other hand, well we just keep coming up with posts which the supporters can't handle in a debate situation.
What a rude post, and inaccurate too. If you can't say why this information is relevant on the Calpol thread then just admit it.
-
Apparently we all NEED to remember that the amount of sedation given to a child prior to an operation is VERY IMPORTANT. Being a supporter I'm not intelligent enough to understand why, in the context of this thread about the Calpol claim it is such an imperative, perhaps one with more intelligence and superior debating skills than me could explain?
-
Because it triggers apoplexy and verbal diarrhoea where half a dozen or fewer bullet points would do the job.
8(0(*
or because debate on the topic is total waste of time when some posters dont understand that the fact that calpol night was not available is totally insignificant...and they dont realise why
-
One point ive noticed is that sceptics seem to thnk sedation and anaesthesia are the same thing
-
The claim that these professional people were involved in some sort of conspiracy is simply too crazy for words.
-
The claim that these professional people were involved in some sort of conspiracy is simply too crazy for words.
Is that because they are 'professional', or because they are 'these'?
-
Is that because they are 'professional', or because they are 'these'?
you might find it strange but those are not my words...but those of another poster...can you guess who?
-
You and fellow supporters do not need to. It is way above your understanding- not your fault but you could always 'google' if you really wanted to know.
To other readers interested...
an underdose would envoke a patient waking up during an operation, and an overdose? well worst case scenario =death!
Skeptics on the other hand, well we just keep coming up with posts which the supporters can't handle in a debate situation.
an underdose would envoke a patient waking up during an operation, and an overdose? well worst case scenario =death!
You don't say, Sherlock!!!
-
That’s cos they are way more intelligent than supporters innit.
Yeah like we know nuffink init.
-
an underdose would envoke a patient waking up during an operation, and an overdose? well worst case scenario =death!
You don't say, Sherlock!!!
I wonder why Miss Taken felt it necessary to educate us dummies on this particular detail?
-
Well being educated now ..... move on to higher learning.
-
You and fellow supporters do not need to. It is way above your understanding- not your fault but you could always 'google' if you really wanted to know.
To other readers interested...
an underdose would envoke a patient waking up during an operation, and an overdose? well worst case scenario =death!
Skeptics on the other hand, well we just keep coming up with posts which the supporters can't handle in a debate situation.
A patient would not be given sedation for an operation.... Sedation does not put a patient to sleep... So there would be no waking up... Probably not a good idea to lecture others on a subject you know so little about
-
an underdose would envoke a patient waking up during an operation, and an overdose? well worst case scenario =death!
You don't say, Sherlock!!!
You don't say, Sherlock!!! <- very childish come back- expected though.
Yes I did say.. VS had difficulty understanding. I was just helping out, but this should not concern supporters- they have no reasonable debate to offer. IMO
-
I wonder why Miss Taken felt it necessary to educate us dummies on this particular detail?
You asked the question! I answered ^*&& so anyway where is this intellectual argument you bring us in defence of the Royalty of missing people AKA K&G? 8**8:/: ?>)()<
-
You asked the question! I answered ^*&& so anyway where is this intellectual argument you bring us in defence of the Royalty of missing people AKA K&G? 8**8:/: ?>)()<
Did you just call my post childish? You then reply to VS with this post. Followed with Smiley's one of which is blowing a large chewing gum bubble LOL kettle and pot and all that.
-
A patient would not be given sedation for an operation.... Sedation does not put a patient to sleep... So there would be no waking up... Probably not a good idea to lecture others on a subject you know so little about
never heard of epidural? or local anaesthetic for brain surgery? What genre would you give for intravenous drip with morphine pouch? what can that do? drugs are administered to put the patient under sedation- or depending on the amount and type could knock them out cold!
Did you just call my post childish? You then reply to VS with this post. Followed with Smiley's one of which is blowing a large chewing gum bubble LOL kettle and pot and all that.
So no intellectual debate forth coming then.. ah well. @)(++(*
-
never heard of epidural? or local anaesthetic for brain surgery? What genre would you give for intravenous drip with morphine pouch? what can that do? drugs are administered to put the patient under sedation- or depending on the amount and type could knock them out cold!
So no intellectual debate forth coming then.. ah well. @)(++(*
Epidural... LA... Morphine pouch... None if these are sedation agents... They do not produce sedation..
Sedation does not knock people out cold... It is not GA...
-
never heard of epidural? or local anaesthetic for brain surgery? What genre would you give for intravenous drip with morphine pouch? what can that do? drugs are administered to put the patient under sedation- or depending on the amount and type could knock them out cold!
So no intellectual debate forth coming then.. ah well. @)(++(*
Cite for your 'intellectual' debate please.
-
You asked the question! I answered ^*&& so anyway where is this intellectual argument you bring us in defence of the Royalty of missing people AKA K&G? 8**8:/: ?>)()<
My question was about its relevance to this thread. You have not answered. ^*&& *%^^&
-
Yeah like we know nuffink init.
Nuffink
Another word for 'nothing'.
Used by girls who wear PVC clothing, failed english at school and think deely-boppers are funny.
People that pronounce the word like this usually have a strong irritating accent, hence why they lack the capability of saying the damn word properly.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Nuffink
In Unix-based computer operating systems, init (short for initialization) is the first process started during booting of the computer system. Init is a daemon process that continues running until the system is shut down.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Init
-
init = isn't it ??
-
Nuffink
Another word for 'nothing'.
Used by girls who wear PVC clothing, failed english at school and think deely-boppers are funny.
People that pronounce the word like this usually have a strong irritating accent, hence why they lack the capability of saying the damn word properly.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Nuffink
In Unix-based computer operating systems, init (short for initialization) is the first process started during booting of the computer system. Init is a daemon process that continues running until the system is shut down.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Init
What is the point of this post?
-
What is the point of this post?
It is all a bit of edumacation. Edumacation for Dummies.
-
It is all a bit of edumacation. Edumacation for Dummies.
Ah, of course, silly me for not realising and being grateful.
-
Thanks Misty for your link but I don't consider one article to be conclusive evidence that Calpol Night was released as late as September. I am not saying it was released prior to May either or that the McCanns used it on their children.
I have found that it was approved for sale in January 2007 and I have this from March 2007.
Why would Boots have a fact sheet on Calpol Night (last changed in March 2007) if they weren't selling it until the autumn?
https://www.boots.com/wcsstore/cmsassets/Boots/Content/Products/Child%20Cough%20Cold%20-%20CAT:%20A00000558/10069294.P/calpol.pdf
I am not saying my information is conclusive either by the way.
-
Thanks Misty for your link but I don't consider one article to be conclusive evidence that Calpol Night was released as late as September. I am not saying it was released prior to May either or that the McCanns used it on their children.
I have found that it was approved for sale in January 2007 and I have this from March 2007.
Why would Boots have a fact sheet on Calpol Night (last changed in March 2007) if they weren't selling it until the autumn?
https://www.boots.com/wcsstore/cmsassets/Boots/Content/Products/Child%20Cough%20Cold%20-%20CAT:%20A00000558/10069294.P/calpol.pdf
I am not saying my information is conclusive either by the way.
Its of no importance...anti histamines...which are the sedative ingredients in Calpol night are available everywhere
-
I wonder why Miss Taken felt it necessary to educate us dummies on this particular detail?
The entertainment value of the responses ?
-
Its of no importance...anti histamines...which are the sedative ingredients in Calpol night are available everywhere
the anti histamine is Diphenhydramine Hydrochloride and this is what is said about it.
CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY:
Diphenhydramine hydrochloride is an antihistamine with anticholinergic (drying) and sedative effects. Antihistamines appear to compete with histamine for cell receptor sites on effector cells.
A single oral dose of diphenhydramine hydrochloride is quickly absorbed with maximum activity occurring in approximately one hour. The duration of activity following an average dose of diphenhydramine hydrochloride is from four to six hours. Diphenhydramine is widely distributed throughout the body, including the CNS. Little, if any, is excreted unchanged in the urine; most appears as the degradation products of metabolic transformation in the liver, which are almost completely excreted within 24 hours.
here https://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/drugInfo.cfm?setid=75F0CDE5-C419-416D-9C13-BFC03BD83B1D
So there is a sedative affect- which you agree to. I thought I'd confirm this.
-
Davel thought Id ad that your anti histamine is the active ingredient in sleep aids too
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/zzzquil-ingredients_n_6902780
-
the anti histamine is Diphenhydramine Hydrochloride and this is what is said about it.
CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY:
Diphenhydramine hydrochloride is an antihistamine with anticholinergic (drying) and sedative effects. Antihistamines appear to compete with histamine for cell receptor sites on effector cells.
A single oral dose of diphenhydramine hydrochloride is quickly absorbed with maximum activity occurring in approximately one hour. The duration of activity following an average dose of diphenhydramine hydrochloride is from four to six hours. Diphenhydramine is widely distributed throughout the body, including the CNS. Little, if any, is excreted unchanged in the urine; most appears as the degradation products of metabolic transformation in the liver, which are almost completely excreted within 24 hours.
here https://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/drugInfo.cfm?setid=75F0CDE5-C419-416D-9C13-BFC03BD83B1D
So there is a sedative affect- which you agree to. I thought I'd confirm this.
I dont think its necessary to confirm anything which is an established fact
-
Davel thought Id ad that your anti histamine is the active ingredient in sleep aids too
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/zzzquil-ingredients_n_6902780
its not my antihisatmine.........have you only just become aware calpol night contained an antihistamine
-
The entertainment value of the responses ?
that would tend to suggest trollish behaviour then. Fancy suggesting such a thing!
-
its not my antihisatmine.........have you only just become aware calpol night contained an antihistamine
Yes because I am new here and new to the case so just looked it up today. I realise you have probably been around since the beginning but not all of us have your experience.
-
Yes because I am new here and new to the case so just looked it up today. I realise you have probably been around since the beginning but not all of us have your experience.
Its been discuused a lot and I doubt many will want to go through the same debate again
-
that would tend to suggest trollish behaviour then. Fancy suggesting such a thing!
Probably. Me being of Scandawegian ancestry Trolls are part of my heritage.
Oh but you have suggested it before; several times. "Sånt är livetas" they say in the better parts of
Skåne county
-
Probably. Me being of Scandawegian ancestry Trolls are part of my heritage.
Oh but you have suggested it before; several times. "Sånt är livetas" they say in the better parts of
Skåne county
more like you have a very simple understanding of humour.....
-
The entertainment value of the responses ?
these sort of goading posts that are allowed to stay is why posters with something interesting to say simply cannot be bothered to post
-
more like you have a very simple understanding of humour.....
Oh indubitably old stick.
-
these sort of goading posts that are allowed to stay is why posters with something interesting to say simply cannot be bothered to post
G-Unit jassi and MTI continue to post.
-
G-Unit jassi and MTI continue to post.
precisely...the forum is now down to sngle figures
-
1. When was Calpol Night granted a licence?
2. What other like for like products were subject to the same licence ?
3. Do those products contain a sedative?
4. When were those products placed on the market at large? [this would include any pilots prior to full launch]
5. Is Calpol used as a generic term the way Biro and Hoover are/were ?
Well we know the answers to 1, 2 & 3.
Does anyone have incontrovertible proof of 4?
Not too fussed about 5 but it might be interesting to know for completeness.
-
1. When was Calpol Night granted a licence?
2. What other like for like products were subject to the same licence ?
3. Do those products contain a sedative?
4. When were those products placed on the market at large? [this would include any pilots prior to full launch]
5. Is Calpol used as a generic term the way Biro and Hoover are/were ?
Well we know the answers to 1, 2 & 3.
Does anyone have incontrovertible proof of 4?
Not too fussed about 5 but it might be interesting to know for completeness.
its all been answerred...and what relevance does it have anyway...as Ive said the mccanns would have known that there are other readily available products with the active ingredients readily available
-
Are we all friends again?
-
Are we all friends again?
i have nothing but contempt for several posters here...and im sure the feeling is mutual
-
i have nothing but contempt for several posters here...and im sure the feeling is mutual
Take some calpol night quick.
-
i have nothing but contempt for several posters here...and im sure the feeling is mutual
Oh count ,me out I don't care enough to suffer anything about any post by supporters- words on a screen. I don't even get offended on behalf of other people on a forum thread... shocking eh?
-
Ah, of course, silly me for not realising and being grateful.
apology accepted gracefully...
-
The entertainment value of the responses ?
...And I wasn't disappointed! ^*&&
(&^&
-
apology accepted gracefully...
My comment was not about one of your posts, nor did it contain an apology, but thanks for your gracefulness, it’s much appreciated.
-
1. When was Calpol Night granted a licence?
2. What other like for like products were subject to the same licence ?
3. Do those products contain a sedative?
4. When were those products placed on the market at large? [this would include any pilots prior to full launch]
5. Is Calpol used as a generic term the way Biro and Hoover are/were ?
Well we know the answers to 1, 2 & 3.
Does anyone have incontrovertible proof of 4?
Not too fussed about 5 but it might be interesting to know for completeness.
Do you really care about any of this, seriously?
-
Sorry I find it ridiculous that anyone would believe the McCann's give the children 'Calpol Night' which wasn't on the market until the following September after Madeleine disappeared.
So how would they come across obtaining it? 'Hey I can we have some Calpol Night to take with us on holiday please? We want to give it to our children so that they will sleep for a couple of hours whilst we have dinner, actually can you supply it for all our friends too? Thanks'. Why haven't anyone come forward revealing the fact that they had acquired said 'Calpol Night' ?
It wasn't much cop either was it, Amelie woke on the Tuesday night, Madeleine said her and Sean were crying too.
-
Sorry I find it ridiculous that anyone would believe the McCann's give the children 'Calpol Night' which wasn't on the market until the following September after Madeleine disappeared.
So how would they come across obtaining it? 'Hey I can we have some Calpol Night to take with us on holiday please? We want to give it to our children so that they will sleep for a couple of hours whilst we have dinner, actually can you supply it for all our friends too? Thanks'. Why haven't anyone come forward revealing the fact that they had acquired said 'Calpol Night' ?
It wasn't much cop either was it, Amelie woke on the Tuesday night, Madeleine said her and Sean were crying too.
The McCanns said that Amelie cried on Tuesday night. The McCanns said that Madeleine told them the twins cried on Wednesday night, The McCanns changed that story later to Madeleine and Sean crying. When two of the three children were exposed to excessive noise, light and disturbance on Thursday night they showed no sign whatsoever of being easily disturbed.
-
so Kate thought the children may have been sedated....is that supposed to be some sort of evidence of her einvolvement ...its extremely weak
The implication is Kate *knew* her children were sedated (she being an anaesthetist and all, nudge nudge) and then decided to draw attention to their apparent sedation weeks or months later by suggesting it as a cause of the children’s deep sleep, in other words she deliberately planted the seed in the minds of a thousand conspiracy theorists for reasons best known to herself. Now, if she’d simply never voiced this alleged concern in the first place think how many forum threads would never have been started. On second thoughts...
-
The McCanns said that Amelie cried on Tuesday night. The McCanns said that Madeleine told them the twins cried on Wednesday night, The McCanns changed that story later to Madeleine and Sean crying. When two of the three children were exposed to excessive noise, light and disturbance on Thursday night they showed no sign whatsoever of being easily disturbed.
Does Calpol Night work so effectively as a sedative that it prevents children waking up due to excessive noise, light and disturbance? If so then perhaps it explains why Madeleine didn’t wake up when allegedly abducted, and it also means we can rule out woke and wandered and her getting up and having an accident, doesn’t it?
-
The McCanns said that Amelie cried on Tuesday night. The McCanns said that Madeleine told them the twins cried on Wednesday night, The McCanns changed that story later to Madeleine and Sean crying. When two of the three children were exposed to excessive noise, light and disturbance on Thursday night they showed no sign whatsoever of being easily disturbed.
At the start it was 'why didn't you come when Sean and me cried' there was no 'last night' In my opinion Kate remembering the stain on Madeleine's pyjama's on the Thursday morning, wondered if the abductor had tried to abduct her the night before, and that is why Madeleine was crying.
Children do sleep through a huge amount of noise, they could have just been sound asleep. Kate was in a very traumatised state when she was worrying about them, imagining the abductor had sedated them. Though Fiona said they were fine.
I read somewhere that if a child moves and settles itself then the child is not unconcious, it could be the twins did move and settle themselves again. IMO
-
Does Calpol Night work so effectively as a sedative that it prevents children waking up due to excessive noise, light and disturbance? If so then perhaps it explains why Madeleine didn’t wake up when allegedly abducted, and it also means we can rule out woke and wandered and her getting up and having an accident, doesn’t it?
I don't believe the children were given Calpol.
-
At the start it was 'why didn't you come when Sean and me cried' there was no 'last night' In my opinion Kate remembering the stain on Madeleine's pyjama's on the Thursday morning, wondered if the abductor had tried to abduct her the night before, and that is why Madeleine was crying.
Children do sleep through a huge amount of noise, they could have just been sound asleep. Kate was in a very traumatised state when she was worrying about them, imagining the abductor had sedated them. Though Fiona said they were fine.
I read somewhere that if a child moves and settles itself then the child is not unconcious, it could be the twins did move and settle themselves again. IMO
At the start it was;
on the morning of the 3rd May, when Madeleine asked the witness the reason why they had not gone to her room when the twins were crying
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN.htm
on the morning of Thursday May 3rd, Madeleine asked the interviewee why she had not come to look in the bedroom when the twins were crying
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm
Then it became;
While they were taking breakfast MADELEINE addressed the mother and asked her ?why didn't you come last night when S*** and I were crying??.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm
-
Just reading my first line should answer that I don't believe the children were drugged by an abductor, or MBM was murdered.
It was Kate who made the claim, her reasons according to VS is she wanted to bamboozle conspirators! I have no idea why she made that claim, I only offered an opinion on it.
I agree it is very very weak!The implication is Kate *knew* her children were sedated (she being an anaesthetist and all, nudge nudge) and then decided to draw attention to their apparent sedation weeks or months later by suggesting it as a cause of the children’s deep sleep, in other words she deliberately planted the seed in the minds of a thousand conspiracy theorists for reasons best known to herself. Now, if she’d simply never voiced this alleged concern in the first place think how many forum threads would never have been started. On second thoughts...
Well, for someone who asks skeptic questions you seem a bit reluctant to afford others to ask questions about the McCanns ,their behaviour about their missing child.
"Now, if she’d simply listened to her daughter and not left them alone again and showed showed parental concern in the first place think how many forum threads would never have been started."
-
Just reading my first line should answer that I don't believe the children were drugged by an abductor, or MBM was murdered by the mother.
It was Kate who made the claim, her reasons according to VS is she wanted to bamboozle conspirators! I have no idea why she made that claim, I only offered an opinion on it.
I agree it is very very weak!
Well, for someone who asks skeptic questions you seem a bit reluctant to afford others to ask questions about the McCanns ,their behaviour about their missing child.
"Now, if she’d simply listened to her daughter and not left them alone again and showed showed parental concern in the first place think how many forum threads would never have been started."
Darling, I LOVE it when y’all ask your little questions, if you didn’t I wouldn’t be here at all ^*&&
-
Sorry I find it ridiculous that anyone would believe the McCann's give the children 'Calpol Night' which wasn't on the market until the following September after Madeleine disappeared.
So how would they come across obtaining it? 'Hey I can we have some Calpol Night to take with us on holiday please? We want to give it to our children so that they will sleep for a couple of hours whilst we have dinner, actually can you supply it for all our friends too? Thanks'. Why haven't anyone come forward revealing the fact that they had acquired said 'Calpol Night' ?
It wasn't much cop either was it, Amelie woke on the Tuesday night, Madeleine said her and Sean were crying too.
It was licensed in January 2007.
-
The implication is Kate *knew* her children were sedated (she being an anaesthetist and all, nudge nudge) and then decided to draw attention to their apparent sedation weeks or months later by suggesting it as a cause of the children’s deep sleep, in other words she deliberately planted the seed in the minds of a thousand conspiracy theorists for reasons best known to herself. Now, if she’d simply never voiced this alleged concern in the first place think how many forum threads would never have been started. On second thoughts...
Maybe as a doctor she would be expected to recognise sedation. Had she not flagged up her suspicions it could have looked strange when other information became available.
-
Maybe as a doctor she would be expected to recognise sedation. Had she not flagged up her suspicions it could have looked strange when other information became available.
Or maybe not... All speculation... As, I have said before I have seen children so tired they cannot be roused... Simply because they were so worn out
-
Or maybe not... All speculation... As, I have said before I have seen children so tired they cannot be roused... Simply because they were so worn out
In this case their mother was worried.....but not enough to try rousing them.
-
In this case their mother was worried.....but not enough to try rousing them.
How do you know she didn't try to rouse them?
-
How do you know she didn't try to rouse them?
Trying to rouse them seems like a fail safe method, doesn't it? They either show signs of waking, in which case you stop, or they don't, in which case you do more. Kate didn't seem to agree though, contenting herself by looking for signs of life;
Scared for them, too, I placed the palms of my hands on their backs to check for chest movement, basically, for some sign of life. [madeleine]
-
Trying to rouse them seems like a fail safe method, doesn't it? They either show signs of waking, in which case you stop, or they don't, in which case you do more. Kate didn't seem to agree though, contenting herself by looking for signs of life;
Scared for them, too, I placed the palms of my hands on their backs to check for chest movement, basically, for some sign of life. [madeleine]
Once again, how do you know she didn't try to rouse them?
As an aside, it strikes me that some people think Kate's book is a minute by minute transcript of every thought, word and deed that occurred that evening (apart from all the bits they believe to be completely made up of course!)
-
Once again, how do you know she didn't try to rouse them?
As an aside, it strikes me that some people think Kate's book is a minute by minute transcript of every thought, word and deed that occurred that evening (apart from all the bits they believe to be completely made up of course!)
If she had tried to rouse the and failed she would have had to get help. If she had tried and succeeded there would have been no need to wonder about it later.
-
If she had tried to rouse the and failed she would have had to get help. If she had tried and succeeded there would have been no need to wonder about it later.
But then she'd have two more problems to deal with.
-
Once again, how do you know she didn't try to rouse them?
As an aside, it strikes me that some people think Kate's book is a minute by minute transcript of every thought, word and deed that occurred that evening (apart from all the bits they believe to be completely made up of course!)
Are you saying the book isn't? Are there bits we should ignore?
If Kate tried to rouse them then she could have shouted from the balcony.. Help!, Help!... but she didn't because she didn't want to wake the twins...
-
But then she'd have two more problems to deal with.
With a room full of people, I am sure if the twins did awake ,Tapas members would look after them...
-
Are you saying the book isn't? Are there bits we should ignore?
If Kate tried to rouse them then she could have shouted from the balcony.. Help!, Help!... but she didn't because she didn't want to wake the twins...
More than likely IMO.
-
If she had tried to rouse the and failed she would have had to get help. If she had tried and succeeded there would have been no need to wonder about it later.
Why would she want to wake them... She knew from her checks they were OK....
-
Why would she want to wake them... She knew from her checks they we're OK....
Yes. but later claimed they may have been drugged- stay with it captain!
-
Yes. but later claimed they may have been drugged- stay with it captain!
We have been through this before... They were not unconscious ....I'm not just with it I'm way ahead
-
If she had tried to rouse the and failed she would have had to get help. If she had tried and succeeded there would have been no need to wonder about it later.
BLACK or WHITE, good example. If this, then that, if that then this. You weren't there, you don't know what happened exactly, you don't know to what extent the kids roused or turned over momentarily or otherwise, Kate is well within her rights to speculate that her kids may have been sedated based on her own observations, and doesn't need you to tell her how she should or shouldn't have behaved. IMO.
-
Are you saying the book isn't? Are there bits we should ignore?
If Kate tried to rouse them then she could have shouted from the balcony.. Help!, Help!... but she didn't because she didn't want to wake the twins...
Is that what she said?
-
Do you really care about any of this, seriously?
No . I am just pointing out what you need to know if the set up is to have legs.
Fred said this Joe said that and do you think professional like that.... and all that haraz is irrelevant.
I suppose I should "do" interesting posts; you know the type one, liners culminating in You can''t can you.Paragraphs of pointless questions demanding if you please, answers, then reams of cut and paste.
Not my bag old stick but chacun son gout as they say.
-
mmmmkay! it will be our little secret. You pretending not to apologise- no problem. shhh *giggles*
back on topic... If the children were drugged as Kate suggested, she is in a better position to identify what could be used.
Are you related to Alice, perchance?
-
You will be pleased to know I did some research and Calpol night only definitely (as far as I can see) came out in September 2007 so I very much doubt the McCanns used it.
-
you said...
"Madeleine's case but which still holds currency in some quarters eleven years after the event.
Exactly as the CALPOL accusation does."
I don't see anyone on this forum supporting the calpol theory! other quarters should not be quoted or used to establish an alliance of any kind with members here. It is wholly unprofessional.
-
... and after all that verbosity ... this remains "The Calpol claim revisited" thread ... might I suggest that named threads exist for a reason on fora so it might be nice to make the attempt to stay on topic. Thank you
-
... and after all that verbosity ... this remains "The Calpol claim revisited" thread ... might I suggest that named threads exist for a reason on fora so it might be nice to make the attempt to stay on topic. Thank you
Was there something left to debate?
-
Ketamine
Consciousness
Given that many paediatric sedations take place in ED in the evening and often around or after a child’s usual bed-time,
a child (> 6 months of age) may be discharged asleep if more than 1 hour has elapsed since last IV sedative/narcotic, or
>2 hours since last IM sedative/narcotic AND if the child is rousable with gentle stimulation.
Fully awake (normal age appropriate verbalisation or interactivity, follows commands) - 2 points
Rousable but unable to follow commands (if usually able) - 1 point
Unresponsive - 0 points, not for discharge until rousable.
Google cite http://www.anzctr.org.au/AnzctrAttachments/370334-24.02.16%20KINDER%20Protocol%20version%202.0.pdf
Yours?
I generally discharge patients after an hour....they are still under the influence and go home...go to bed and sleep like a log
-
I generally discharge patients after an hour....they are still under the influence and go home...go to bed and sleep like a log
Is that safe? Are they driving?
-
Is that safe? Are they driving?
You're not allowed to drive for 24hrs & have to be accompanied home by a responsible adult after a procedure.
-
You're not allowed to drive for 24hrs & have to be accompanied home by a responsible adult after a procedure.
That sounds better!
-
Was there something left to debate?
Posts have been purged!
We still do not know why Kate mentioned sedation, in what context, and if she relayed her expert knowledge of anaesthesia to offer a detailed or more detailed information as to when and how this would have taken place. as an example; the knowledge the 'drugger' would have regarding type and dosage or drug used- for the age, size and weight of victims.
-
Posts have been purged!
We still do not know why Kate mentioned sedation, in what context, and if she relayed her expert knowledge of anaesthesia to offer a detailed or more detailed information as to when and how this would have taken place. as an example; the knowledge the 'drugger' would have regarding type and dosage or drug used- for the age, size and weight of victims.
Another opportunity gone forever.