Author Topic: Wandering Off Topic  (Read 2203538 times)

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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #18570 on: April 17, 2026, 06:11:44 PM »
From what I've seen from the official statement, Martin Smith was answering a direct question as to whether he thought the person he saw was Murat.
And it looks like theirs was an incidental, casual acquaintance, with Smith stating they'd 'met in a bar a couple of years before'. There's reports of them bumping into eachother infrequently.
So they weren't friends and Smith didn't proffer this proclamation unprompted.
I?m not sure what gave you the impression that Smith was answering a direct question about Murat. To me it looks like he gave the information without prompting, otherwise the sentence would have started with ?questioned? or ?urged? to denote police interrogation.

Quote
States that it is not possible for him to recognise the individual in person or by photograph.
? Adds that in May and August of 2006, he saw ROBERT MURAT in Praia da Luz bars. On one of these occasions, the first, he was inebriated and spoke to everyone. He did not wear glasses at that time. He also states that the individual who carried the child was not ROBERT. He would have recognised him immediately.

- indeed why would the police ask him if it was Robert Murat he saw if they didn?t know that he would have recognised him if it had been?

No sorry, I think he volunteered this information and was motivated to come forward because he didn?t want Murat to be falsely accused.  It doesn?t matter if he was only a passing acquaintance, Smith came forward imo because he wanted to make the cops aware that the guy they saw carrying away the child they believed to be Madeleine (a belief they kept to themselves for 3 weeks) was not the bloke being plastered all over the news.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2026, 06:42:00 PM by Vertigo Swirl »
Not a handwriting expert.

Online Uncle Jr

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #18571 on: April 17, 2026, 08:40:11 PM »
I?m not sure what gave you the impression that Smith was answering a direct question about Murat. To me it looks like he gave the information without prompting, otherwise the sentence would have started with ?questioned? or ?urged? to denote police interrogation.

- indeed why would the police ask him if it was Robert Murat he saw if they didn?t know that he would have recognised him if it had been?

No sorry, I think he volunteered this information and was motivated to come forward because he didn?t want Murat to be falsely accused.  It doesn?t matter if he was only a passing acquaintance, Smith came forward imo because he wanted to make the cops aware that the guy they saw carrying away the child they believed to be Madeleine (a belief they kept to themselves for 3 weeks) was not the bloke being plastered all over the news.
He didn't. All of that is summary answers to questions. Questions like 'where did you see him'.
'He would have recognised him immediately'. That's not a cogent sentence without a question.
Besides, 'he would have recognised Ignacio, the dentist, it wasn't him'. He was specifically asked if he looked like their current prime suspect, which was the point of the interview.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2026, 08:45:55 PM by Uncle Jr »

Online Uncle Jr

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #18572 on: April 17, 2026, 08:50:35 PM »
I?m not sure what gave you the impression that Smith was answering a direct question about Murat. To me it looks like he gave the information without prompting, otherwise the sentence would have started with ?questioned? or ?urged? to denote police interrogation.

- indeed why would the police ask him if it was Robert Murat he saw if they didn?t know that he would have recognised him if it had been?

No sorry, I think he volunteered this information and was motivated to come forward because he didn?t want Murat to be falsely accused.  It doesn?t matter if he was only a passing acquaintance, Smith came forward imo because he wanted to make the cops aware that the guy they saw carrying away the child they believed to be Madeleine (a belief they kept to themselves for 3 weeks) was not the bloke being plastered all over the news.
You missed out the crucial 3 words -He also states that the individual who carried the child was not ROBERT, as he would have recognised him immediately. Upon being asked, he states that he was accompanied by his wife...

Offline Joe Blogs

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #18573 on: April 17, 2026, 09:49:21 PM »
You missed out the crucial 3 words -He also states that the individual who carried the child was not ROBERT, as he would have recognised him immediately. Upon being asked, he states that he was accompanied by his wife...
I may be missing something here, Uncle, but why wouldn't the Smiths automatically be asked, 'could the man that you met have been Robert Murat', after all, I presume Murat was still a suspect at that time?

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #18574 on: April 17, 2026, 10:07:10 PM »
You missed out the crucial 3 words -He also states that the individual who carried the child was not ROBERT, as he would have recognised him immediately. Upon being asked, he states that he was accompanied by his wife...
I didn?t miss it out, that was the next paragraph in which the police asked him who he was with when he saw the man.  It really is very clear:

At being asked, states that when he saw the individual he was accompanied by his wife, MARY SMITH, his son, PETER SMITH, his daughter-in-law, S***, his grandchildren of 13 and 6 years of age (children of PETER) TA*** and CO**, his daughter AOIFE (12 years of age), and his other two grandchildren (AI****** (10 years old) and EI**** (four years old). These are children of his daughter B***** who was in Ireland.
Not a handwriting expert.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #18575 on: April 17, 2026, 10:10:14 PM »
I may be missing something here, Uncle, but why wouldn't the Smiths automatically be asked, 'could the man that you met have been Robert Murat', after all, I presume Murat was still a suspect at that time?
Exactly, unless he had already volunteered that he knew Murat why would the police ask him if it was Murat that he saw?  Makes no sense and it?s quite clear from the witness statement that he volunteered this information unprompted, otherwise it would say ?when asked, he stated that the man definitely was not Murat?.  IMO.
Not a handwriting expert.

Online Uncle Jr

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #18576 on: Today at 08:32:21 AM »
I didn?t miss it out, that was the next paragraph in which the police asked him who he was with when he saw the man.  It really is very clear:

At being asked, states that when he saw the individual he was accompanied by his wife, MARY SMITH, his son, PETER SMITH, his daughter-in-law, S***, his grandchildren of 13 and 6 years of age (children of PETER) TA*** and CO**, his daughter AOIFE (12 years of age), and his other two grandchildren (AI****** (10 years old) and EI**** (four years old). These are children of his daughter B***** who was in Ireland.
The police are asking questions, he's answering them, that's how the process works.
The statement isn't verbatim, it's a summary.
Let's not forget that the whole point of him being there was because he thought it looked like Gerry. By it's very nature that act 'eliminates' Murat. There was no need for him to volunteer that information, he's already told them who he thinks it is.

Online Uncle Jr

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #18577 on: Today at 08:41:51 AM »
I may be missing something here, Uncle, but why wouldn't the Smiths automatically be asked, 'could the man that you met have been Robert Murat', after all, I presume Murat was still a suspect at that time?
Well that's my point - the police did ask. They asked many questions that don't appear on the statements.
But there was no need to volunteer that information, because he was there to expressly point the finger at Gerry. The police at that point know he doesn't mean anyone else.
And, as you rightly point out, Murat was the prime suspect at the time. Process dictates that they specifically ask that exact question, for the avoidance of doubt later on if charges are brought.

As far as I can see, this style of ommitting the questions was commonplace for the PJ across the files, summarised answers in the third person. Not helpful when you don't know what the question was, but you have an idea.
Contrast that with the UK rogatory statements and you see a more formal style - questions and answers both stated verbatim.

Finally on this, the documents from the investigation are explicitly described as 'summaries of the statements'.
[url]https://gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id192.htm/url] Unsafe link, click at your own peril.
As you can see, barely a question noted, but clearly many were asked.
« Last Edit: Today at 08:50:55 AM by Uncle Jr »