Author Topic: How the murders were carried out.  (Read 17967 times)

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Offline starryian

Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #45 on: May 31, 2012, 02:10:35 PM »
I think the true story lies somewhere in those posts .... I like to think that after Bamber had shot the poor twins and the initial shots into Nevill and June he ran out of bullets. Nevill then chased Jeremy downstairs who was going after more bullets; Nevill got to him before he could reload and the massive struggle took place. Unfortunately Jeremy won as Nevill was already badly injured from the initial shots.


Nevill fought to his death to save his family and he must have know it was his own son he had to fight. How anyone could believe that Sheila overcame Nevill in such a struggle is quite beyond any commonsense in my opinion.
A very good point Tim. This supposed fight between a 6ft 4" 14 stone man and a petite. slender 8 stone uncoordinated woman that set the alarm bells ringing for DC Stan Jones. It just didnt add up to him. It was highly improbable that the waif-like Sheila could have physically overcame her towering father - injured or not. Jones reasoned that 'all Nevil had to do was fall on her to stop her in her tracks' I suspect that Bamber had - as you suggest - unexpectedly ran out of ammunition upstairs. June had already been shot but not totally incapacitated.
Bamber chased Nevil down the stairs where Nevil made a grab for the gun. he managed to get a firm grip of the barrel. The two men fought - one for life, the other death. The uninjured Bamber managed to wrest the rifle from Nevill's weakening grip and proceeded to turn the gun around and, using it as a club, batter the beleaguered Nevil into unconscienceness. He then had time to reload the rifle and  adminisister the coup de grace to Nevil.
Meanwhile, poor June had managed to wriggle across the floor to the bedroom door, whereupon Bamber fresh from the fight in the kitchen spotted her crawling out of the bedroom door. He stepped over the now helpless June and shot her between the eyes, killing her instantly. Sheila was next.  What he told her will probably never be known, but it was enough to rouse her from her sleep and get her into her parents bedroom. I suspect that he told her to pray for June (hence the bible found at the scene)whom Bamber had admitted killing and threatened to harm her children in the same way (not knowing that Bamber had already shot them in their beds) if she did not comply. Whereupon he told her to close her eyes and lie down. He then swiftly pushed the rifle under her chin and pulled the trigger. Thinking she was dead Bamber went to survey his handiwork including the fatal mistake of putting the silencer back in the cupboard. On his return he realised to his horror that Sheila was still alive, her breathing shallow but still alive. He then shot her a second time - this time fatally. This is what I believe happened according to the evidence. However, the only person who really knows what happened that night is Jeremy Bamber himself. A scheming, manipulative, cunning psychopath. It is highly unlikely that he will ever admit to the appalling crimes. that he is undoubtedly responsible for.
Starryian..

Offline Jerry

Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #46 on: May 31, 2012, 02:46:16 PM »
That is probably how the stock of the rifle came to be damaged.  Maybe as Bamber swung the rifle to hit Nevill he clipped the lampshade shattering its glass.  It is a pity the police didn't check his shoes for glass fragments>?

Offline starryian

Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #47 on: June 02, 2012, 05:43:25 AM »
Good point Jerry,
I dont think the police checked Bamber's shoes. They did ask for his clothes many days after the crime had already been committed. The problem was that much of the evidence was destroyed on Bamber's instructions - the police thinking that this was four muders and a suicide virtually closed the case down at this point. The cunning Bamber having already painted the picture for the hapless investigators, including those leading the case such as DCI 'Taff' Jones. Bamber must have thought by this stage he had gotten clean away with it.
Starryian..

Offline goatboy

Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #48 on: June 02, 2012, 07:34:00 PM »
A point the other forum continually makes is that there was no physical evidence linking Jeremy to the murder scene (clothing etc). What they fail to realise is that he had at least a month to dispose of any evidence he may have had. There was one piece of evidence he couldn't get rid of though-the silencer. If he had disposed of it somewhere nearby it would prove his guilt, which was why he cleaned it and placed it back in the gun cupboard.

crapper

  • Guest
Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #49 on: June 02, 2012, 09:00:46 PM »
Mike has just told reader to f..k off. Some forum owner, He sets a great example doesnt he? very proffessional.

Offline Admin

Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #50 on: June 02, 2012, 11:33:56 PM »
A point the other forum continually makes is that there was no physical evidence linking Jeremy to the murder scene (clothing etc). What they fail to realise is that he had at least a month to dispose of any evidence he may have had. There was one piece of evidence he couldn't get rid of though-the silencer. If he had disposed of it somewhere nearby it would prove his guilt, which was why he cleaned it and placed it back in the gun cupboard.

Yes, they keep saying that there is no evidence which places Jeremy at the scene.  isn't that a bit strange when he was there not 4 hours earlier and apparently according to him took the rifle outside to look for rabbits.  He says he didn't fire it.  We don't believe him, he didn't take the rifle outside, he merely made sure that it was ready to go for his later rampage. He made sure that there would be a reason why his fingerprints were on the rifle.  Problem for him though is that there weren't enough of them for someone who supposedly used the rfile routinely.  Did they find sheila's prints on the magazine...NO.   Why?  Because Bamber wiped his off leaving it clean.  Silly boy forgot to put Sheila's prints on the mag.

Offline starryian

Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #51 on: June 04, 2012, 11:55:03 AM »
Thanks for the reply John. There is no possible way Nevill would be moving anywhere with a 5th bullet wound upstairs. Anyone of his 4 headshots would have killed him instantly. The only explanation i have for the shell case on the stairs, is that it was carried up, from the kitchen on a policeman's shoe. Even that sounds a little far fetched to me. Either the shell casing map is inaccurate or one was moved from the kitchen. The shots to Nevill's head are in pairs in my opinion, not a singular and then three others. The last four shots were in the kitchen, have to be, otherwise someone is dragging him down the stairs, propping him up in a chair and shooting him again 3 times.

You make a good point about Nevill. His fight for life is remarkable and is another extremely sad factor in this massacre. The injuries he suffered from the beating with the rifle are tremendous and you have to read the pathology report several times to ascertain just how bad it was. The linear bruising to his forearms, indicate that Nevill was always on the defensive and phrasing this episode as a struggle is grossly inaccurate, in my opinion. Nevill struggled to survive and was absolutely battered.

A few questions for you John, Did Nevill end up in the chair by coincidence or was he put in the chair? If he was put in the chair, Why?
I think it far more leikely that the shell was simply kicked there either by Nevil or his assailant Bamber. Bamber fired a series of bullets from the bedroom door into the bedroom (this is located immediately at the top of the stairs) It is highly likely that it was simply kicked while underfoot during the assault or when Nevil or Jeremy went downstairs.
Your point about the fight in the kitchen is an interesting one. However, I think we must rely on common sense to understand that such a struggle did, in fact take place. I say this because according to the evidence Nevil was frogmarched downstairs at riflepoint (evidenced by the burn marks found on his back) We have to remember that it is highly likely that Nevil had witnessed the shooting of his wife June and would have been certain that he was next. I believe that Bamber at this time had run out of ammunition. At this point Nevil made a grab for the gun and probably managed to get a firm grip of the rifle's barrel. It is likely that the two men strugled violently for control of the gun - knocking over the kitchen chairs, and careening into the kitchen table upsetting the sugar bowl and other sundry items. Nevil must have fought with everything a wounded man could possibly muster, but alas the uninjured and younger Bamber managed to wrest the rifle from nevil and proceeded to turn it around and use it as a club. It was at this pointt hat I believe that Nevil sustained the appalling injuries you highlighted in your text. Jeremy then swung the rifle so viciously that the wooden stock splintered with the force (this broken stock was later found on the floor) I believe that this knocked Nevil unconscious, whereupon Bamber reloaded the rifle (the bullets were conveniently located on the sideboard next to the telephone) and shot Nevil through the head 4 times. It was at this point I believe that he slumped into the jaunty and precarious angle at which he was later found - sitting on an upturned chair that was deposited thus during the struggle.
Ironically this was Bmaber's biggest mistake. In order for the police to believe that Sheila had run amok with a rifle it was imperative that they be shot in their beds. Bamber did not count on Nevil's resistance nor the fact that the human body can sometimes withstand such appalling wounds (June was shot multiple times, Sheila twice and Nevil 8 times)
Make no mistake despite his appalling wounds, Nevil fought like a tiger in order to try to protect his beloved wife, his daughter and her two sons. It must have been heartbreaking for Nevil to realise that the very boy he had given a name to, a home, a family and most things that people can only dream about was indeed a psychopathic, greedy, arrogant, wastrel he suspected.
Starryian..