New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.

[Robittybob1]

https://www.9news.com/article/news/investigations/jonbenet-ramsey/dna-in-doubt-a-closer-look-at-the-jonbenet-ramsey-case/73-343376600
"DNA in doubt: A closer look at the JonBenét Ramsey case" 

[Robittybob1]

"Early in the investigation, police found male DNA in a drop of blood on JonBenet's underwear and determined it was not from anyone in her family."

Whose blood was it?
Was the blood from Jonbenet?  Or was it from the male?

This seems to be an unanswered question.  In my view the blood was on JBR pants and long johns so I thought the blood was her's.  But other reports sounded like the blood was from the perpetrator, but then the DNA results would be more definitive wouldn't they?

[Robittybob1]

Part of my discussion elsewhere where I was trying to say the DNA results don't go to show the type of material being analysed:  "What I meant was that the tests will give you the same results whether the original sample was blood or saliva or skin cells, or seminal fluid or some other source. Just as long as there is a DNA source the tests will give a result. It is then the problem of trying to determine how many persons contributed to the sample. Jonbenet will be one of the contributors, and they know there was at least 1 source of male DNA, that's two, but they talk of a third contributor too. When it is mixed it is harder to determine the profiles of the individuals being sort after."

[Robittybob1]

It is not often I come across a new video on the topic  The Killing of JonBenet -The Truth Uncovered Part 2 Documentary   https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5x3vb5

I came across a mention of Burke playing with Lego in the basement.  Burke's First Police Interview - before the body was found - (Excerpts) https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenetRamsey/comments/b36iop/burkes_first_police_interview_before_the_body_was/

In that thread it mentioned the interview that Burke had before the Ramseys hired lawyers.  (Worth reading).

Mention in that interview was Alyson Schoeny "Alyson: Alyson A-L-Y-S-O-N, last name is Schoeny, S-C-H-O-E-N-Y, and I’m Burke’s grandma."  Who was she really?

She is listed here as Priscilla's sister  "They were the inner circle of adult friends of the Ramseys and the child friends of JonBenet's and Burke's.

Fleet and Priscilla White, their children Fleet III and Daphne; Priscilla's sister Alison Schoeny; her boyfriend Clif Gaston; Alison's daughter and her husband, the Coxes; Susan and Glen Stine and the mother of each of them, plus their child; the Barbers and their little girls; the Barnhills from across the street."

Some spell her name Alison but others more correctly Alyson.

[Robittybob1]

I have found part 1 and part 3  https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5x3trl  for part 1  "The Killing of JonBenet -The Truth Uncovered Part 1 Documentary" and https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5x3wx4 part 3  "The Killing of JonBenet -The Truth Uncovered Part 3 Documentary".


Very different pictures and discussion.

[Robittybob1]

full reports of the DNA analyses are found in this collection of documents. http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/file/fetch/133993644/117.pdf

""The following documents were received from a Colorado Open Records Act (CORA) request made of the Boulder District Attorneys Office for documents related to DNA Testing."
Source: https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/jonbenet-ramsey-cora-files-index.450108/

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/130877934/CORA%20Files%20Index?fbclid=IwAR0q3DRruVaFnv2KspR70NgXvqpJp[Name removed]iyN6CrM2lKgt4u3lUxo-p7WOpVo4  is an index of all the documents released for the case via Colorado Open Records Act (CORA) requests.

[Robittybob1]

I have not seen anything that gives me confidence the case will be solved by DNA results known to date,  i.e. I don't think it is a DNA case.
This could change if the following is done:
Touch DNA of the garrote cord and handle.
The pubic hair sample needs to be analysed for mDNA (mitochondrial DNA).
The alibis of Melinda and Stewart Long need to be double checked.
Melinda's and Stewart's DNA profile needs to be redone.
John Ramsey and Jeff Ramsey need to have their DNA profile redone.

[Robittybob1]

I have not seen anything that gives me confidence the case will be solved by DNA results known to date,  i.e. I don't think it is a DNA case.
This could change if the following is done:
Touch DNA of the garrote cord and handle.
The pubic hair sample needs to be analysed for mDNA (mitochondrial DNA).
The alibis of Melinda and Stewart Long need to be double checked.
Melinda's and Stewart's DNA profile needs to be redone.
John Ramsey and Jeff Ramsey need to have their DNA profile redone.

Very little is mentioned about Jeff Ramsey.  Was he ever investigated?

From https://shakedowntitle.com/2018/07/11/jonbenet-ramsey-key-individuals/ we get the immediate family relations:

"John Ramsey – Extended Family

JonBenét’s half-sister – Elizabeth ‘Beth’ Pasch Ramsey [deceased 1992, age 22]
JonBenét’s older half-sister – Melinda Ramsey, sometimes resided in Ramsey family home.
JonBenét’s older half-brother – John Andrew, resided in Ramsey family home, when not at college.
JonBenét’s uncle and John Ramsey’s brother – Jeff Ramsey
John Ramsey’s first wife – Lucinda Pasch

Patsy Ramsey – Extended Family

Patsy’s mother – Nedra Paugh [deceased]
Patsy’s father – Donald Paugh [deceased]
Patsy’s younger sister – Pamela Paugh, former Miss West Virginia"


He is mentioned in this report, so does that imply his DNA was tested?   "The written report/analysis submitted to the Boulder Police Department included “The DNA profiles developed from [bloodstains from panties as well as from right- and left-hand fingernails from JonBenét] revealed a mixture from which the major component matched JonBenét. If the minor components contributed from [bloodstains from panties as well as from right- and left-handed fingernails from JonBenét] were contributed by a single individual, then John Andrew Ramsey, Melinda Ramsey, John B. Ramsey, Patricia Ramsey, Burke Ramsey, Jeff Ramsey [the author has omitted other names listed in the report for their privacy] would be excluded as a source of the DNA analyzed on those exhibits.”" wehaveyourdaughter.net/dna-evidence/2017/3/2/gq2q172ev5vgpu1yaf9earizliw8ax

In this article it sounds like his alibi was investigated but do we actually hear about it?

"The film claims that others contradict French and then cuts to Ramsey’s brother, Jeff, saying that the officer was not telling the truth. There’s one small problem here: Jeff Ramsey was not in the house at the time--he wasn’t even in Colorado; he was home in Atlanta. https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1998-oct-05-ca-29421-story.html

OK a mention of what John does for a living:  "By the time of her outburst, Patsy and John had put Boulder behind them, if only geographically, moving into a cream-colored brick home in a wealthy neighborhood of Atlanta, the city where the couple met 18 years ago. Much of their tight-knit family, including Patsy’s parents and John’s brother Jeff, 49, live nearby. Across the street is the private Lovett School, where the Ramseys’ son Burke, 10, just entered fifth grade. John plans to move his company’s headquarters to the area early next year. “It’s taking them time to get settled, but they’re getting there,” says Jeff Ramsey, a computer sales manager. “They have a pretty good support group here.”"  https://people.com/archive/cover-story-mystery-couple-vol-48-no-14/


OK here it says Jeff submitted blood:

"Who Has Submitted DNA Blood Samples?
Family Members
John Ramsey (hair and blood tests in CBI Serology Report, January 9, 1997).
Patsy Ramsey (hair and blood tests in CBI Serology Report, January 9, 1997).
John Andrew Ramsey (hair and blood tests in CBI Serology Report, January 9, 1997).
Melinda Ramsey (hair and blood tests in CBI Serology Report, January 9, 1997).
Burke Ramsey (hair and blood tests in CBI Serology Report, January 9, 1997).
Jeff Ramsey (hair and blood tests in CBI Serology Report, January 9, 1997)."
http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682463/DNA%20Evidence

And a link to a lab report. https://jonbenetramseymurder.discussion.community/post/1st-cbi-serology-test-results-january-9-1997-9809500?pid=1304993049

Lab tests done and report states Jeff's "blood group type was O secretor".    So far no mention of a DNA
analysis.

"#44B-2               BLOODSTAIN STANDARD FROM JEFF RAMSEY "  Was this sample DNA tested?

Report read "BASED ON THESE RESULTS, THE DNA PROFILES DEVELOPED FROM EXHIBITS #5A, 5B, 14I, 15A, 15B, 16A AND 17C MATCHED THE PROFILE FROM JONBENET RAMSEY

THE DNA PROFILES DEVELOPED FROM EXHIBITS #7, 14L AND 14 M REVEALED A MIX-TURE OF WHICH THE MAJOR COMPONENT MATCHED JONBENET RAMSEY. IF THE MINOR COMPONENTS FROM EXHIBITS #7, 14L AND 14M WERE CONTRIBUTED BY A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL, THEN JOHN ANDREW RAMSEY, MELINDA RAMSEY, JOHN B RAMSEY, PATRICIA RAMSEY, BURKE RAMSEY, JEFF RAMSEY, LINDA HOFFMAN PUGH AND MERVIN PUGH WOULD BE EXCLUDED AS A SOURCE OF THE DNA ANALYSED ON THOSE EXHIBITS.


"But whoever ordered them had the obvious people tested first. These included those who were at the house the morning after the murder - Patsy, John, Burke, John Fernie (but not Barbara), Priscilla White (but not Fleet), Jeff, John Andrew and Melinda Ramsey. "  https://jonbenetramseymurder.discussion.community/post/1st-cbi-dna-test-results-january-13-1997-and-cellmark-dna-test-results-may-131997-9803782?pid=1305067876

What house? What date?

From the "Bonita papers" "His brother, Jeffrey, was born five years later".  http://www.acandyrose.com/1999-BonitaPapers.htm



 

[Robittybob1]

from the Bonita papers "A confrontation had occurred between Fleet and John's brother, Jeff Ramsey, on December 31 the day after the funeral and the Whites were asked to leave the Paugh home where they had been staying and move to a hotel. When contacted by the Boulder detectives, the Whites denied that such an incident had occurred. However, in the interview with Westmoreland who had been present during the incident, he told the detectives that Fleet was upset with the involvement of the Ramsey’s, attorneys in the investigation and their lack of cooperation with the police department. Fleet started an argument with Jeff at Westmoreland's home, went to the home of Jeff Ramsey to continue the argument, and then ended up at the Paugh residence still arguing. Westmoreland was concerned enough with the heat of the verbal exchange that he contacted the Boulder detectives to ask that someone respond to the Pauqh residence. Soon after this incident, John Ramsey told the Boulder police that in his opinion Fleet White was a prime suspect in the murder."
http://www.acandyrose.com/1999-BonitaPapers.htm


What was John thinking?  How could Fleet be a suspect in this case?   He did admit going into the wine cellar and not seeing JBR in there around 10:00 AM and possibly not latching the wine cellar door on leaving.  Did this allow the "killer" to escape from the cellar room?

[Robittybob1]

I have not seen anything that gives me confidence the case will be solved by DNA results known to date,  i.e. I don't think it is a DNA case.
This could change if the following is done:
Touch DNA of the garrote cord and handle.
The pubic hair sample needs to be analysed for mDNA (mitochondrial DNA).
The alibis of Melinda and Stewart Long need to be double checked.
Melinda's and Stewart's DNA profile needs to be redone.
John Ramsey and Jeff Ramsey need to have their DNA profile redone.

Read https://jonbenetramseymurder.discussion.community/post?id=10294373

"There is a book written by a former investigator with the District Attorney's Office, James Kolar: Foreign Faction, Who Really Killed JonBenet Ramsey? pages 412 through 417. In it he described results obtained by Bode from other crime scene items and this is the area of concentration I am most interested. I would like to review the  relevant electropherograms, covering  the dates December 2007 through December 2010.More specifically:

“We (referring to Andy Horita, another investigator) collectively recapped the DNA evidence that had been analyzed in this investigation, and it included the following:

1-“6.) The new technology of Touch DNA had located another

sample of DNA located on the wrist bindings that

belonged to a different unidentified male.

2-“7.) The new technology of Touch DNA had located another

sample of DNA located on the garrote that belonged to yet

another unidentified male."

Does that mean the touch DNA testing of the garrote  has already been done but kept secret.

[Robittybob1]

I found the part from Kolar's book: "One particular sample of hair collected from the blanket that had been wrapped around JonBenét’s body had initially given the appearance of being a pubic hair. Investigators thought this might belong to a male perpetrator. The FBI was later able to identify this as an axillary hair (underarm, back, chest) and determined it did not come from the pubic region of the body.
Mitochondrial DNA tests were run on this hair, and the FBI technicians determined that the hair shaft did not belong to an unidentified stranger. Patsy Ramsey could not be excluded as the source of the hair, and it was noted that it could have come from either her or someone else in her maternal lineage."

"someone else in her maternal lineage" AFAIK this maternal lineage line can be as much as 10,000 years. Think of some lady living 10,000 years ago and how many daughters granddaughters etc etc can be produced, and the terminal male offspring living at that time, and consider how many persons that there could be.

So there is no way they can rule out the male intruder unless they actually have a DNA sample of his to test.

Males are part of the maternal line as well, Every male here today has a mother, and has the same mDNA as his mother.

We don't actually see the lab report, only someone's interpretation of an unseen report.  Show me the lab report.

Even Lucinda Pasch JR's first wife could have the same maternal lineage as Patsy.

[Robittybob1]

I'm now looking through the book Foreign Faction, by A James Kolar.
Is this true?
"Despite being instructed by Detective Arndt to stand guard at the top of the basement stairs, Fleet White returned briefly to the Wine Cellar during these events. He picked up the duct tape, touched the blanket that had been wrapped around JonBenét’s body and handled a cigar box in the room."

[Robittybob1]

Foreign Faction: Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet? (8 page of online version)
"Dr. Meyer would prepare a brief press release at the end of the day, announcing that the cause of JonBenét’s death had been “asphyxiation by strangulation.” Estimating the time of death would take a little longer to establish and was not mentioned in the announcement regarding her murder.

The manner of death was ruled to be a Homicide."

Was the time of death ever established?

[Robittybob1]

Foreign Faction: Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet? (8 page of online version)
"Dr. Lucy Rorke, a neuro-pathologist with the Philadelphia Children’s Hospital, helped explain the timing of some of the injuries sustained by JonBenét. She told investigators that the blow to the skull had immediately begun to hemorrhage, and it was not likely that she would have regained consciousness after receiving this injury. The blow to the head, if left untreated, would have been fatal.

The presence of cerebral edema, swelling of the brain, suggested that JonBenét had survived for some period of time after receiving the blow to her head. Blood from the injury slowly began to fill the cavity of the skull and began to build up pressure on her brain. As pressure increased, swelling was causing the medulla of the brain to push through the foramen magnum, the narrow opening at the base of the skull.

Dr. Rorke estimated that it would have taken an hour or so for the cerebral edema to develop, but that this swelling had not yet caused JonBenét’s death. “Necrosis,” neurological changes to the brain cells, indicated a period of survival after the blow that could have ranged from between forty-five (45) minutes and two (2) hours.

As pressure in her skull increased, JonBenét was beginning to experience the effects of “brain death.” Her neurological and biological systems were beginning to shut down, and she may have been exhibiting signs of cheyne-stokes breathing. These are short, gasping breaths that may be present as the body struggles to satisfy its need for oxygen in the final stages of death.

The medical experts were in agreement: the blow to JonBenét’s skull had taken place some period of time prior to her death by strangulation. The bruising beneath the garrote and the petechial hemorrhaging in her face and eyes were conclusive evidence that she was still alive when the tightening of the ligature ended her life."

[Robittybob1]

"Dr. Werner Spitz, forensic medical examiner for Wayne County, Michigan, had conducted extensive studies on the wounds caused by the application of force and was considered a leading expert on the topic.

He offered an opinion on the sequencing of injuries that had been inflicted upon JonBenét during her murder:

This first injury sustained by JonBenét was believed to have been the constriction marks on the sides and front of her throat. He believed that her assailant had grabbed her shirt from the front and twisted the collar in their fist. The cloth from the edge of the collar had created the discolored, striated bruising and abrasions on the sides of her neck, and the knuckles of the perpetrator had caused the triangular shaped bruise located on the front side of her throat.
JonBenét reached up to her neck with her hands to attempt to pull away the collar causing some nail gouges / abrasions with her fingernails on the side of her throat.
Released from the grasp of the perpetrator, JonBenét turned and was struck in the upper right side of her head with a blunt object. Dr. Spitz would subsequently offer the opinion that the barrel of the Maglite brand flashlight found on the kitchen counter of the Ramsey home was consistent with the rectangular shape of the skull fracture. JonBenét’s head injury continued to bleed internally until her strangulation.
The blow would have rendered JonBenét unconscious and accounted for the absence of any additional defensive wounds on her body. (Dr. Meyer had noted during autopsy no further signs of struggle, i.e. broken fingernails, bruising on her hands or fingernail scrapes on her face near the duct tape.)
Inflicted perimortem with her death, was the insertion of the paintbrush handle into JonBenét’s vaginal orifice. The presence of inflammation and blood in the vaginal vault indicated that she was still alive when this assault took place, but it was believed that this took place at or very near the actual time of her death.
The last injury sustained was the tightening of the garrote around JonBenét’s throat that resulted in her death by strangulation / asphyxiation."

IMO If the flashlight was used to hit her head the blow was from behind.  So if someone was restraining her from in front it would need to be a second person the apply the blow to the head from behind.