A Room With A View...

[Holly Goodhead]

The window was enough to 'throw investigators' because the first person on the scene said it was so. Nobody else did.
What would I expect? I wouldn't try to make the abduction look like an abduction.
Maybe ransack the gaff, fill a duvet cover with 'valuables'. If you stage a burglary it could be argued that MM ran off once they'd left. I'm reaching here, I know that.

But all these things you've suggested take more time than opening the window/shutters plus waking the children plus leaving behind forensic evidence.

[Holly Goodhead]

I was referring to the perp trying to scope out comings and goings, rather than the knowledge or otherwise of the door locking mechanism.

The perp could scope out the comings and goings from a room with a view.  By all accounts T9 were loud in the tapas bar particularly GM.   

[The General]

But all these things you've suggested take more time than opening the window/shutters plus waking the children plus leaving behind forensic evidence.

So your theory consists of the shutters / window being opened by an alleged abductor, in an attempt to divert the police, by ensuring that they concentrate their efforts on someone who was watching and who knew the front door was locked?

[Holly Goodhead]

So your theory consists of the shutters / window being opened by an alleged abductor, in an attempt to divert the police, by ensuring that they concentrate their efforts on someone who was watching and who knew the front door was locked?

By ensuring they didn't concentrate their efforts on someone who knew the patio door was open.  Who knew the patio door was open:

McCanns
T7
Anyone with a room with a view

[G-Unit]

Yes KM states in her book all guests were able to leave. 

I've been thinking about this further.  Who actually owned all the apartments?  Mrs Fenn obviously owned hers so not all guests staying in the apartments were connected with MW.  Did MW rent some of the apartments and then market them as an inclusive MW hol?  The Access list you uploaded shows the names of a number of tour operators but the guest list doesn't appear to contain any foreign sounding surnames ie it doesn't appear holiday makers from other European countries, or elsewhere, were staying at OC based on the access list?

Mark Warner bought the Ocean Club which owned the OC buildings and land; no apartments. As part of the deal they negotiated a rental contract;

for ten years of 27 apartments owned by George Propiedades.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBIN_CROSSLAND.htm

I assume therefore that only 27 apartments were always available.
The rest of the apartments were available only if the owners had an agreement with the OC, either directly or through a local property management company. 

It's quite possible that people from other countries owned property in Luz and unless they had an agreement with the OC those properties could have housed anyone from anywhere; they wouldn't be listed.

[kizzy]

@ Holly Goodhead.

Not getting caught after the event is surely a good enough reason.  How long would it take to open window/shutter?  He/she would know they had some 30 mins based on the pattern of McCann visits.[/b]


What sense would there be for an abductor - to make an abduction look like an abduction?.

Why not?  MM wasn't abducted from creche.  She was abducted from 5a which had an unlocked door and was unsupervised.

Yes, but how did the mccs know no one involved in the creche wasn't responsible IMO.

My point was when Maddie had gone -  they felt safe enough to not want the twins with someone they trusted.

Not sure what you mean by anyone close to home?

Someone who knew the exact mccn baby care arrangements.

[Holly Goodhead]

Mark Warner bought the Ocean Club which owned the OC buildings and land; no apartments. As part of the deal they negotiated a rental contract;

for ten years of 27 apartments owned by George Propiedades.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBIN_CROSSLAND.htm

I assume therefore that only 27 apartments were always available.
The rest of the apartments were available only if the owners had an agreement with the OC, either directly or through a local property management company. 

It's quite possible that people from other countries owned property in Luz and unless they had an agreement with the OC those properties could have housed anyone from anywhere; they wouldn't be listed.

Thanks - that's interesting.

IMO every single apartment with a view needs accounting for.  How can we rule out anything dodgy going on eg a local letting agency tells owner the property is vacant when in fact it is being let and the agent is pockets the rent? 

[Holly Goodhead]

@ Holly Goodhead.

Not getting caught after the event is surely a good enough reason.  How long would it take to open window/shutter?  He/she would know they had some 30 mins based on the pattern of McCann visits.[/b]


What sense would there be for an abductor - to make an abduction look like an abduction?.

Why not?  MM wasn't abducted from creche.  She was abducted from 5a which had an unlocked door and was unsupervised.

Yes, but how did the mccs know no one involved in the creche wasn't responsible IMO.

My point was when Maddie had gone -  they felt safe enough to not want the twins with someone they trusted.

Not sure what you mean by anyone close to home?

Someone who knew the exact mccn baby care arrangements.

I think the purpose of opening the window/shutter was staged by the abductor to throw investigators, McCanns and even the likes of us into thinking maybe the window/shutter was used as an entry/exit point as opposed to the unlocked patio door. 

But how could anyone abduct twins from creche/kids club or whatever it was referred to when numerous others were around? 

MM was abducted from 5a during the hours of approx 9pm - 10pm  from 5a because the abductor knew she was home alone and could gain access through the unlocked patio door.  This was a totally different situation to the day care provided for twins by MW. 

[Robittybob1]

People get off on all sorts.  It could be someone wanted to see the McCanns in turmoil and initially planned to release MM but with all the media coverage became too scared. 

Could be someone wanted a child and felt unable to separate the twins. 

I guess the obvious answer is some sort of sexual assault. 

You say tourist to become a child abductor but paedophiles are everywhere and look and act normally.  If someone is that way inclined and an opportunity presents eg child home alone in unlocked property they might well go for it and this is what imo happened.  It was the coming together of all the circumstances.  Plus someone that way inclined might well have been getting aroused during the week with all the young children running around in swimwear.  Plus if he/she (most likely he) had been drinking as people do on hol this will only exacerbate by lowering inhibitions.

That is quite a range of possibilities.

Your suggestion " It could be someone wanted to see the McCanns in turmoil and initially planned to release MM but with all the media coverage became too scared" is a bit like the  theory I proposed where "it could be someone wanted to see the McCanns in turmoil" as part of a prank.  Show them that their child care methods were exposing the kids to a possible kidnapping.  They "planned to release MM"  but as I see it since MM had the ability to escape the apartment the prank failed in that they never got take her in the first place.

Maybe that is where the faking the crime scene came in, but I gradually came to thinking that burglars attempting to break in were enough to wake MM.

Granted my scenario involves more people, playing roles that don't add up to child abduction,  whereas your theory involves one family in an apartment overlooking the scene.

[kizzy]

I think the purpose of opening the window/shutter was staged by the abductor to throw investigators, McCanns and even the likes of us into thinking maybe the window/shutter was used as an entry/exit point as opposed to the unlocked patio door. 

But how could anyone abduct twins from creche/kids club or whatever it was referred to when numerous others were around? 

MM was abducted from 5a during the hours of approx 9pm - 10pm  from 5a because the abductor knew she was home alone and could gain access through the unlocked patio door.  This was a totally different situation to the day care provided for twins by MW.

The only reason an abductor would want to make it look like an abduction - would have had an ulterior motive.

Especially if it wasn't an abduction at all IMO.

Not to throw every one of the track - if that was the case why not just leave the patoio door wide open.

[G-Unit]

People get off on all sorts.  It could be someone wanted to see the McCanns in turmoil and initially planned to release MM but with all the media coverage became too scared. 

Could be someone wanted a child and felt unable to separate the twins. 

I guess the obvious answer is some sort of sexual assault. 

You say tourist to become a child abductor but paedophiles are everywhere and look and act normally.  If someone is that way inclined and an opportunity presents eg child home alone in unlocked property they might well go for it and this is what imo happened.  It was the coming together of all the circumstances.  Plus someone that way inclined might well have been getting aroused during the week with all the young children running around in swimwear.  Plus if he/she (most likely he) had been drinking as people do on hol this will only exacerbate by lowering inhibitions.

You appear to have eliminated those closest to MM.

[Brietta]

You appear to have eliminated those closest to MM.

The Amaral investigation started the ball rolling on that one by eliminating those closest to Madeleine by dint of being unable to produce anything against them which resembled evidence.

[sadie]

Mark Warner bought the Ocean Club which owned the OC buildings and land; no apartments. As part of the deal they negotiated a rental contract;

for ten years of 27 apartments owned by George Propiedades.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBIN_CROSSLAND.htm

I assume therefore that only 27 apartments were always available.
The rest of the apartments were available only if the owners had an agreement with the OC, either directly or through a local property management company. 

It's quite possible that people from other countries owned property in Luz and unless they had an agreement with the OC those properties could have housed anyone from anywhere; they wouldn't be listed.

Well found Gunit.  It must be nearly ten years since I last read that statement



The interesting thing is that amongst other dates it fails to give the  actual selling date.

 Is  that?

- deliberate

- accidental

- or, by a mystery hand, has the document been altered, as is so common these days on the internet




Anyone got any ideas on this?

Or is it nothing ?

- or has this got some relevance possibly ?

[G-Unit]

The Amaral investigation started the ball rolling on that one by eliminating those closest to Madeleine by dint of being unable to produce anything against them which resembled evidence.

There's no evidence against anyone as far as I know.

[sadie]

I think the purpose of opening the window/shutter was staged by the abductor to throw investigators, McCanns and even the likes of us into thinking maybe the window/shutter was used as an entry/exit point as opposed to the unlocked patio door. 

But how could anyone abduct twins from creche/kids club or whatever it was referred to when numerous others were around? 

MM was abducted from 5a during the hours of approx 9pm - 10pm  from 5a because the abductor knew she was home alone and could gain access through the unlocked patio door.  This was a totally different situation to the day care provided for twins by MW.

Holly, welcome btw, there has been a list of feasible reasons for an abductor to leave that window and shutter open.

It has been posted on here a number of times and amounted to nearly ten reasons on one occasion.  All feasible.



I don't have the energy to think the reasons up again, but every one was valid.




I dont think the window was wide enough, except as a possible emergency escape route for the abductor, if trapped

The rear patio doors were in full view of the Tapas 9 and the patio illuminatedby the street lamp opposite.  Amaral agreed that no-one would abduct Madeleine in sight, so close to her parents.  She was only 50 metres away and in a n illuminated spot as she passed through that patio door and across the patio ... and partially down the steps.

I dont think the patio door was used because of these things and others.