A Room With A View...

[Holly Goodhead]

Holly, welcome btw, there has been a list of feasible reasons for an abductor to leave that window and shutter open.

It has been posted on here a number of times and amounted to nearly ten reasons on one occasion.  All feasible.



I don't have the energy to think the reasons up again, but every one was valid.




I dont think the window was wide enough, except as a possible emergency escape route for the abductor, if trapped

The rear patio doors were in full view of the Tapas 9 and the patio illuminatedby the street lamp opposite.  Amaral agreed that no-one would abduct Madeleine in sight, so close to her parents.  She was only 50 metres away and in a n illuminated spot as she passed through that patio door and across the patio ... and partially down the steps.

I dont think the patio door was used because of these things and others.

Hi Sadie.  Thanks for the welcome.

I'm sure it has all been said before.  I spent many a happy hour going over the same ground over and over again with the Bamber case 

I'm new to this case and I've learned a lot from other cases.  Having got the basics of this case, as it stands at the moment, I believe MM was abducted by a stranger from apartment 5a.  I think the shutter/window was 'staged' to throw investigators, McCanns, media etc, etc. 

I believe the abductor entered and exited via the patio doors taking care to return everything as it was found ie close patio door, close child gate and gate linking 5a and road.  I think the abductor then went along the alley wall at the side of the two blocks and into the car park.  You can see how dark it is in the following documentary from about 14 mins to 18 mins. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khP0dEsZaug

[kizzy]

Hi Sadie.  Thanks for the welcome.

I'm sure it has all been said before.  I spent many a happy hour going over the same ground over and over again with the Bamber case 

I'm new to this case and I've learned a lot from other cases.  Having got the basics of this case, as it stands at the moment, I believe MM was abducted by a stranger from apartment 5a.  I think the shutter/window was 'staged' to throw investigators, McCanns, media etc, etc. 

I believe the abductor entered and exited via the patio doors taking care to return everything as it was found ie close patio door, close child gate and gate linking 5a and road.  I think the abductor then went along the alley wall at the side of the two blocks and into the car park.  You can see how dark it is in the following documentary from about 14 mins to 18 mins. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khP0dEsZaug

I think the shutter/window was 'staged' to throw investigators, McCanns, media etc, etc. 

Why on earth would the so-called abductor want to do that - what would he/she achieve by doing that.

The only sense to me to do that - would be to make it look like an abduction when it wasn't an abduction.

[Holly Goodhead]

I think the shutter/window was 'staged' to throw investigators, McCanns, media etc, etc. 

Why on earth would the so-called abductor want to do that - what would he/she achieve by doing that.

The only sense to me to do that - would be to make it look like an abduction when it wasn't an abduction.

It's a well known phenomenon that criminals will stage the scene to throw investigators.  As I keep saying only a finite number of people knew T9 were in Tapas bar, MM was home alone and the patio doors unlocked and those people all had a room with a view.  If investigators were savvy enough to home in on these individuals within the first 24 hours they may well have caught him/her.  But the open window/shutter threw a lot of people in the early stages.

Google 'Crime scene staging' and you can read all about it.

[Holly Goodhead]

You appear to have eliminated those closest to MM.

Yes because the McCanns and T7 didn't have the time to carry out an abduction and dispose of a body unless they involved others.  Plus what would be the motive for McCanns and/or T7 to harm MM and dispose of her body?

[ShiningInLuz]

I think the shutter/window was 'staged' to throw investigators, McCanns, media etc, etc. 

Why on earth would the so-called abductor want to do that - what would he/she achieve by doing that.

The only sense to me to do that - would be to make it look like an abduction when it wasn't an abduction.

I think it has been pointed out already but ...

It would obscure the possible fact that someone had been monitoring MBM, K&G, 5A, the routine etc.

It would obscure the possibility that an intruder had access to a front door key.

It turns a less complex scene into a more complex scene.

[jassi]

Yes because the McCanns and T7 didn't have the time to carry out an abduction and dispose of a body unless they involved others.  Plus what would be the motive for McCanns and/or T7 to harm MM and dispose of her body?

Available time to move body depends upon accuracy of the timeline, which, IMO , was devised solely by the T9


Is anyone suggesting that Madeleine was deliberately harmed ?

[kizzy]

It's a well known phenomenon that criminals will stage the scene to throw investigators.  As I keep saying only a finite number of people knew T9 were in Tapas bar, MM was home alone and the patio doors unlocked and those people all had a room with a view.  If investigators were savvy enough to home in on these individuals within the first 24 hours they may well have caught him/her.  But the open window/shutter threw a lot of people in the early stages.

Google 'Crime scene staging' and you can read all about it.

'Crime scene staging' and you can read all about it.

Pointless doing that when I don't even believe there was an abductor - and it's only your theory.
what if maddie was abducted because she woke an wandered - did they go back and open the bedroom window

If an abduction was staged - a left open patio door and gate ect would have had the same effect.

an open window doesn't mean it was by someone with a room with a veiw- a left open door would suffice.

why go to the trouble of opening a window making noise when every second count - to be in and straight out.



Seems to me the open window was for an instant reaction for it to be an abduction.
 

What the mcns as they said - they knew Maddie had been abducted straight away by the open window.

The mcns wasn't consistent with the checking each night imo - so what good would that be to someone with a view. the actual timeline is aprox not set in stone.

[ShiningInLuz]

Yes because the McCanns and T7 didn't have the time to carry out an abduction and dispose of a body unless they involved others.  Plus what would be the motive for McCanns and/or T7 to harm MM and dispose of her body?

The answer to that one is very obvious, but if I state it explicitly, I will no doubt get warning points.

Just a thought.  From time to time we have thrown Murder Mystery parties, where one guest gets slaughtered, the other guests play detectives, and the murderer wins by evading capture.  This requires a fair bit of role playing by the guests, but it also involves thinking it through from the viewpoint of the perpetrator. 

[ShiningInLuz]

'Crime scene staging' and you can read all about it.

Pointless doing that when I don't even believe there was an abductor - and it's only your theory.
what if maddie was abducted because she woke an wandered - did they go back and open the bedroom window

If an abduction was staged - a left open patio door and gate ect would have had the same effect.

an open window doesn't mean it was by someone with a room with a veiw- a left open door would suffice.

why go to the trouble of opening a window making noise when every second count - to be in and straight out.



Seems to me the open window was for an instant reaction for it to be an abduction.
 

What the mcns as they said - they knew Maddie had been abducted straight away by the open window.

The mcns wasn't consistent with the checking each night imo - so what good would that be to someone with a view. the actual timeline is aprox not set in stone.

It's an observation point from which the Tapas restaurant can be monitored.

[Holly Goodhead]

Available time to move body depends upon accuracy of the timeline, which, IMO , was devised solely by the T9


Is anyone suggesting that Madeleine was deliberately harmed ?

So what are you suggesting?  That the McCanns drugged their children so they could have a carefree night and it all went horribly wrong?  In which case why bother checking? 

[jassi]

So what are you suggesting?  That the McCanns drugged their children so they could have a carefree night and it all went horribly wrong?  In which case why bother checking?

The timeline is approximate at best so you can't say something couldn't haven because there wasn't time - IMO

[Vertigo Swirl]

Available time to move body depends upon accuracy of the timeline, which, IMO , was devised solely by the T9


Is anyone suggesting that Madeleine was deliberately harmed ?

Yes.  Spam thinks they murdered her, and others here believe she was drugged by her parents. 

[jassi]

If she was drugged by her parents, it would not be with any intent to kill -IMO

I don't remember Spammy saying  that they murdered her, just that they popped her a waste bin

[Holly Goodhead]

The answer to that one is very obvious, but if I state it explicitly, I will no doubt get warning points.

Just a thought.  From time to time we have thrown Murder Mystery parties, where one guest gets slaughtered, the other guests play detectives, and the murderer wins by evading capture.  This requires a fair bit of role playing by the guests, but it also involves thinking it through from the viewpoint of the perpetrator.

Well if you state your opinion, however unpalatable that might be to some, I don't see the problem?  We have  'free speech' in this country.  I don't see how your opinion could be considered defamatory or libellous when no one knows for sure what happened to MM other than MM and those directly responsible for her disappearance, so I would encourage you to go for it.

The McCanns have sued the likes of Amaral over his book and the tabloid press as they're in a position of influence, we're not.  The McCanns would look pretty damn sad if they tried suing individuals for allowing others to offer up an opinion on an online discussion forum.  I doubt the law would be on their side and it would undoubtedly backfire on them. 

I'm not sure I fancy playing the role of a child abductor   

[Holly Goodhead]

If she was drugged by her parents, it would not be with any intent to kill -IMO

I don't remember Spammy saying  that they murdered her, just that they popped her a waste bin

Why would her parents drug her?  Why bother carrying out checks if she was drugged?

Spammy saying they popped MM in a waste bin doesn't make it a fact.