Author Topic: Fingerprints  (Read 48818 times)

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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Fingerprints
« Reply #165 on: September 19, 2019, 08:30:42 PM »
Looking in the PJ files Irene Trovao informed Amaral that the fingerprint had been identified following receipt of the GNR officers fingerprints. She also provided the photos showing the match. Why would she falsify her evidence?
Is the text of those pages translated into English as well.   "Irene Trovao" is the expert.  Was she the lady who took the finger prints on the 4th?

I think I've answered the first question myself.  "Service Information

To: The Coordinator of the Investigation, G. Amaral

From: Assistant Specialist Irene Trovao

Subject: Identification of finger print

I inform you that according to report nº 140/07 there is a single finger print with sufficient value for identification.

It was revealed with Dragon Blood and gathered from the side of the living room window/door of Ocean Club apartment 5 A on 4th May 2007 after the disappearance of the child.

This morning Officer Silva delivered various fingerprints belonging to his officers who were on duty at the apartment on the night of 3 – 4 May 2007.

These were compared to the finger print which was identified as being that of Nelson Filipe Pacheco da Costa of the Lagos GNR.

Signed"

But the text associated with the photos doesn't seem to be translated.  I can see on the lower photo the word "amplified"  but in the English text there are no words like "amplify or amplified".
« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 08:37:14 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Fingerprints
« Reply #166 on: September 19, 2019, 09:04:45 PM »
That is rather interesting, so the partial finger print matches da Costa over the few points that can be identified.  OK I'm impressed  but the question remains were they of similar dimensions in real life?

Where are you getting partial from?
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Fingerprints
« Reply #167 on: September 19, 2019, 09:11:35 PM »
Where are you getting partial from?
Well if you look at the two photos of the fingerprints one is only part or the larger one.  How much has to be present before it is not a partial print?

at bottom of this page: http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm



« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 09:17:15 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Fingerprints
« Reply #168 on: September 19, 2019, 09:31:06 PM »
Well if you look at the two photos of the fingerprints one is only part or the larger one.  How much has to be present before it is not a partial print?

at bottom of this page: http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm




Oh I see what you mean in terms of the images but afaik a complete print was available. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline The General

Re: Fingerprints
« Reply #169 on: September 20, 2019, 07:58:29 AM »
And on the same basis, the McCanns and their friends can be forgiven for “trampling all over the evidence”.
They can in my eyes. Preserving the scene would be the last thing you would be thinking about in the midst of a frantic search.
Subject Matter Expert - Hobos.

Offline barrier

Re: Fingerprints
« Reply #170 on: September 20, 2019, 08:14:25 AM »
They can in my eyes. Preserving the scene would be the last thing you would be thinking about in the midst of a frantic search.

As long as everyone else is not blamed for those actions.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Fingerprints
« Reply #171 on: September 20, 2019, 09:00:23 AM »
So to summarise then:

- First respondents, Jose Maria Batista Roque and Nelson Filipe Pacheco da Costa, 2 GNR officers, arrived at OC main reception where they were told by GM, via a translator, that MM had been abducted.  They all then went to 5A.  The officers entered through the front wood door.

- When the officers entered they searched 5A.  The officers wit stats are contradictory as to who searched and what was searched.  However neither make reference to exiting or entering via the patio doors, searching the balcony or adjoining garden.   Reference is made to Jose Roque searching the area around the apartments and tapas bar.

- Fingerprints were collected on 3rd?/4th May. 

- One fingerprint taken from the side of the patio door was unidentified.  As such PJ sent requests to counterparts in other countries seeking assistance from their fingerprint databases.  No match was found but Germany provided additional comment by stating that the fingerprint could have originated from a woman or youth but not a child.

-  PJ concluded that the fingerprint originated from first respondent, male officer, Nelson Filipe Pacheco da Costa,  despite the comment from Germany and despite the fact that first respondent, Jose Maria Batista Roque, told his colleague to wait in the hall whilst he searched 5A.  In any event at no time does Nelson Filipe Pacheco da Costa mention handling the patio door to exit/enter the property for whatever reason(s).

- We are told written communication re the above originated from Assistant Specialist, Irene Trovao, to the Coordinator of the invetigation: Goncalo Amaral.  However the printed name and signature on the communication is lighter than the main body of the text.

- Goncalo Amaral was found guilty of falsifying documents in an unrelated case. 

Imo the above needs investigating.  The fingerprint needs reexamining and the authenticity of the written communication said to originate from Irene Trovao needs examining by a forensic document handler.

 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Fingerprints
« Reply #172 on: September 20, 2019, 10:07:11 AM »
Oh I see what you mean in terms of the images but afaik a complete print was available.
They point out 13 points of similarity, that might be enough.  I'm not conversant about finger prints, but I would have thought size really important too.
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Offline Eleanor

Re: Fingerprints
« Reply #173 on: September 20, 2019, 11:21:39 AM »
So to summarise then:

- First respondents, Jose Maria Batista Roque and Nelson Filipe Pacheco da Costa, 2 GNR officers, arrived at OC main reception where they were told by GM, via a translator, that MM had been abducted.  They all then went to 5A.  The officers entered through the front wood door.

- When the officers entered they searched 5A.  The officers wit stats are contradictory as to who searched and what was searched.  However neither make reference to exiting or entering via the patio doors, searching the balcony or adjoining garden.   Reference is made to Jose Roque searching the area around the apartments and tapas bar.

- Fingerprints were collected on 3rd?/4th May. 

- One fingerprint taken from the side of the patio door was unidentified.  As such PJ sent requests to counterparts in other countries seeking assistance from their fingerprint databases.  No match was found but Germany provided additional comment by stating that the fingerprint could have originated from a woman or youth but not a child.

-  PJ concluded that the fingerprint originated from first respondent, male officer, Nelson Filipe Pacheco da Costa,  despite the comment from Germany and despite the fact that first respondent, Jose Maria Batista Roque, told his colleague to wait in the hall whilst he searched 5A.  In any event at no time does Nelson Filipe Pacheco da Costa mention handling the patio door to exit/enter the property for whatever reason(s).

- We are told written communication re the above originated from Assistant Specialist, Irene Trovao, to the Coordinator of the invetigation: Goncalo Amaral.  However the printed name and signature on the communication is lighter than the main body of the text.

- Goncalo Amaral was found guilty of falsifying documents in an unrelated case. 

Imo the above needs investigating.  The fingerprint needs reexamining and the authenticity of the written communication said to originate from Irene Trovao needs examining by a forensic document handler.

Actually, the mind boggles when one really thinks about this.  They sent a finger print of one of their officers halfway around The World before checking at home.

Offline jassi

Re: Fingerprints
« Reply #174 on: September 20, 2019, 12:59:33 PM »
Actually, the mind boggles when one really thinks about this.  They sent a finger print of one of their officers halfway around The World before checking at home.


When its done electronically, distance doesn't really matter.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Eleanor

Re: Fingerprints
« Reply #175 on: September 20, 2019, 01:02:18 PM »

When its done electronically, distance doesn't really matter.

How does this relate to incompetence?

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Fingerprints
« Reply #176 on: September 20, 2019, 02:19:34 PM »
Re the following post:

https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3197.msg556004#msg556004

I need to read carefully the fingerprint report but a quick skim and I'm seeing 1 unidentified fingerprint on the side of the patio door which according to Interpol Wiesbaden does not match any within the database.   Does this database cover all of Germany or other countries too?  According to IP Wiesbaden the fingerprint could originate from a woman or youth but not a child.  So I guess they're ruling out a man based on size. 

If I'm reading the doc correctly it appears GA called time on this aspect of the investigation by attributing the fingerprint to one of his officers:  Nelson Filipe Pacheco da Costa of the Lagos GNR.  I thought IP Wiesbaden said the fingerprint originated from a woman or youth not a child so how can it have originated from male GNR officer: Nelson Filipe Pacheco da Costa? 

Its usual for all those working in the criminal justice system ie police officers, forensic scientists etc to submit fingerprints, dna etc so they can be eliminated from innocent contamination.  Why would PJ send letters to various other countries seeking the fingerprint on databases before eliminating innocent contamination from officers present at soc?
Where is the cite for this comment by Interpol Wiesbaden?

Searching the forum it appears to be related to the Interpol document in the PJ file.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PJ_INTERPOL.htm

"TOPIC: MADELEINE BETH MCCANN

Text:
In the sequence of the vestiges collected from the Ocean Club ? Praia da Luz, which was sent to all the Interpol Cabinets, we were informed:

? The Secretary General of Interpol - IPSG ? Lyon, informed us that these were not found in the IPSG database.
? IP Wiesbaden, informed us that two of the vestiges are not useful for comparison; another was compared and nothing found was in the files. All told, Wiesbaden states that this vestige was left by a woman or a youth, but not by a small child.

With my best compliments,
Chief of GNI
Ana Mafalda Duarte"

So as I read that note by Ana Duarte, that is an interpretation of the report back from Wiesbaden.

I can't be sure the photos in the fingerprint document  is one of the vestiges talked about in the Interpol document. Report reference is 140/07.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 02:42:09 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline John

Re: Fingerprints
« Reply #177 on: September 20, 2019, 04:29:16 PM »
But the first respondents met with GM, among others, at OC reception who was adamant that MM had been abducted.

Surely defence lawyers would have a field day at trial if officers' fingerprints are all over soc?

Officers are routinely trained not to touch anything in such situations Holly but in reality they sometimes have to open doors and windows, cupboards, closets etc in order to do checks.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline sadie

Re: Fingerprints
« Reply #178 on: September 20, 2019, 04:41:24 PM »
Well if you look at the two photos of the fingerprints one is only part or the larger one.  How much has to be present before it is not a partial print?

at bottom of this page: http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm




Rob, I am not at all sure that the two fingerprints are from the same finger.  I am not certain, but there seem to be minor differences.


Can anyone magnify them to matching sizes ... then swivel the images so that they alined ... then finally place the images touching each other, please?   As big as possible.


-Then we stand a chance of seeing if they are from the same finger.


Sorry cant be around to follow thru.

Offline Myster

Re: Fingerprints
« Reply #179 on: September 20, 2019, 05:30:22 PM »
Rob, I am not at all sure that the two fingerprints are from the same finger.  I am not certain, but there seem to be minor differences.


Can anyone magnify them to matching sizes ... then swivel the images so that they alined ... then finally place the images touching each other, please?   As big as possible.


-Then we stand a chance of seeing if they are from the same finger.


Sorry cant be around to follow thru.
These of any use...
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.