Author Topic: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA  (Read 56161 times)

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debunker

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The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA
« on: April 03, 2013, 09:04:15 PM »
Let's have a well sourced debate about Dogs and DNA
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 01:54:47 AM by John »

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2013, 09:07:06 PM »
Let's have a well sourced debate about Dogs and DNA

Unfortunately you are not interested in debate, merely raising hackles.

You also don't answer pertinent questions.

Merely deflect attention.

Offline sika

Re: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2013, 09:21:29 PM »
Frightened to debate eh?

Answer these questions:

What odor does Eddie the Cadaver dog alert to?
What odor does Keela the Blood dog alert to?

What does a single alert by either mean?

Why are the deployed together?

reasonable questions awaiting a reasonable response
The silence speaks volumes.

debunker

  • Guest
Re: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2013, 09:23:00 PM »
Frightened to debate eh?

Answer these questions:

What odor does Eddie the Cadaver dog alert to?
What odor does Keela the Blood dog alert to?

What does a single alert by either mean?

Why are the deployed together?


Are you asking these questions because you don't know the answers  ?

I rarely ask questions to which I do not know the answer. I frequently ask questions to people who think they know the answer but are wrong.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 11:18:17 PM by John »

Offline sika

Re: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2013, 09:29:35 PM »
For the benefit of the uninformed, ie. me, could someone please offer their views on the evidence collected by the dogs?
It is cited as being a major piece of evidence, in the case against the McCanns. Would be nice to hear it debated.

Offline gilet

Re: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2013, 09:36:04 PM »
For the benefit of the uninformed, ie. me, could someone please offer their views on the evidence collected by the dogs?
It is cited as being a major piece of evidence, in the case against the McCanns. Would be nice to hear it debated.

I think the best place to start is with the summary by the dog handler himself in his own report.

"SUMMARY

The tasking for this operation was as per my normal Standard Operating
Procedures. The dogs are deployed as search assets to secure evidence and
locate human remains or Human blood.

The dogs only alerted to property associated with the McCann family. The dog
alert indications MUST be corroborated if to establish their findings as
evidence.

Therefore in this particular case, as no human remains were located, the only
alert indications that may become corroborated are those that the CSI dog
indicated by forensic laboratory analysis.

My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is
suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant. This does not however
suggest a motive or suspect as cross contamination could be as a result of a
number of given scenarios and in any event no evidential or intelligence
reliability can be made from these alerts unless they can be confirmed with
corroborating evidence."

He does not even claim for certain that there was cadaver scent, never mind that it was definitely related to Madeleine McCann.

The point made earlier by another poster that an alert is meaningless unless corroborated by forensics is very important. The example given was a dog alerting when searching for a bomb but no bomb is found. Should that building be permanently under suspicion? Should the McCanns be permanently under suspicion based on uncorroborated alerts?

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2013, 09:38:41 PM »
Frightened to debate eh?

Answer these questions:

What odor does Eddie the Cadaver dog alert to?
What odor does Keela the Blood dog alert to?

What does a single alert by either mean?

Why are the deployed together?


Are you asking these questions because you don't know the answers  ?

I rarely ask questions to which I do not know the answer. I frequently ask questions to people who think they know the answer but are wrong.

I know very little about cadaver dogs so I'm afraid I cannot debate with you on the technicalities of their abilities/uses

Given that you are well informed on the subject though,  perhaps I could ask a question that has always bothered me

There was no conclusive forensic evidence gathered  to verify the cadaver dog's alert in the McCann apartment or car which has lead bto the conclusion that the dog must have wrong

What was it that made him alert then ? 

Whatever it was,  it was exclusive to the McCanns and existed in none of the other apartments or cars that the dog was presented with

What could it have  been

That's always troubled me
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 11:24:07 PM by John »

Offline sika

Re: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2013, 09:39:27 PM »
Thanks Gilet

registrar

  • Guest
Re: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2013, 09:41:23 PM »
For the benefit of the uninformed, ie. me, could someone please offer their views on the evidence collected by the dogs?
It is cited as being a major piece of evidence, in the case against the McCanns. Would be nice to hear it debated.
 
Without providing links (which I could do ad nauseam)

My personal take is that:

Martin Grime provided the dogs - Duarte Levy - a journalist of colourful provenance - he has at least 2 other names and 3 passports, filmed the 'alerts' - sold the video of the whole thing to the Sun newspaper (motivational factors anyone?)

The Forensic Science Service in B'ham analysed the material found upon the alerts - no sufficient match with Madeleine's DNA could be established - scientifically

Which didn't stop the detractors of Gerry and Kate to elevate the two moggies into stardom

Follow the sandal, indeed   


stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2013, 09:41:56 PM »
Frightened to debate eh?

Answer these questions:

What odor does Eddie the Cadaver dog alert to?
What odor does Keela the Blood dog alert to?

What does a single alert by either mean?

Why are the deployed together?


Are you asking these questions because you don't know the answers  ?

I rarely ask questions to which I do not know the answer. I frequently ask questions to people who think they know the answer but are wrong.

I know very little about cadaver dogs so I'm afraid I cannot debate with you on the technicalities of their abilities/uses

Given that you are well informed on the subject though,  perhaps I could ask a question that has always bothered me

There was no conclusive forensic evidence gathered  to verify the cadaver dog's alert in the McCann apartment or car which has lead bto the conclusion that the dog must have wrong

What was it that made him alert then ? 

Whatever it was,  it was exclusive to the McCanns and existed in none of the other apartments or cars that the dog was presented with

What could it have  been

That's always troubled me


Well said.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 11:25:56 PM by John »

debunker

  • Guest
Re: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2013, 09:45:24 PM »
@ Stephen25000

Let us start with basics before getting complicated

What odor does Eddie the Cadaver dog alert to?
What odor does Keela the Blood dog alert to?

What does a single alert by either mean?

Why are the deployed together?

registrar

  • Guest
Re: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2013, 09:51:15 PM »
@ Stephen25000

Let us start with basics before getting complicated

What odor does Eddie the Cadaver dog alert to?
What odor does Keela the Blood dog alert to?

What does a single alert by either mean?

Why are the deployed together?

these are straightforward questions - I await the answers with trepidation

debunker

  • Guest
Re: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2013, 09:52:22 PM »
Most [ censored word] get the answers completely wrong.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2013, 10:08:03 PM »
@ Stephen25000

Let us start with basics before getting complicated

What odor does Eddie the Cadaver dog alert to?
What odor does Keela the Blood dog alert to?

What does a single alert by either mean?

Why are the deployed together?


I await the the answer to my question first.

Now let's try you on a basic piece of simple science first.

Can you provide me with a list of compounds which these dogs can alert to ?

P.S. I hold degrees in Science, including one in Chemistry.

Here's a simple task for you.

Provide a pathway for the synthesis of Benzene from Carbon.

Please don't bother googling it, that won't impress me.

Do you know what !,5 Diaminopentane/Pentane-1,2-diammine is ?

There's a whole lot more to follow.  8((()*/




icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2013, 10:12:47 PM »
@ Stephen25000

Let us start with basics before getting complicated

What odor does Eddie the Cadaver dog alert to?
What odor does Keela the Blood dog alert to?

What does a single alert by either mean?

Why are the deployed together?

Please debunker,  if you already know the answers why do you not just post them yourself ...  for the benefit of other members, like me,  who do not know ?

It seems  you pose the questions for no other reason than to taunt other members,  which is a shame, and not really in keeping with what the purpose  of the  UK Justice forum appears to be, to me